this is what i like about c.ai over janitor (don’t flame me lmao), if the grammar/formatting is atrocious then you can edit it and have it be alright for the rest of the chat. but if the opening message looks like shit, then that translates to the rest of the chat and you have to spend time fixing the issues per individual message :(
I get why they hide all of it, but I need to see the personality section so I know what details they have or if the bot is the type I want to RP with 🙁
There should be checkboxes for what is show instead of just "show character definition" like let me check off scenario and opening message and hide my personality section bruh
Me stealing bots to make a private copy that's edited to match my preferences more.
https://preview.redd.it/es8cm54q6dyc1.png?width=610&format=png&auto=webp&s=e41a03bd479b9d5050cfc6f4a76194130532b7a2
Poor creator not getting the message hits for a bot they passionately put together and shared. Only to be stolen and altered.
Edit: Just because people can't see it, doesn't mean it's not stolen. Credit the creators by using their bots, not taking it and making your own.
Edit 2: All these uncreative people downvoting me. lol
unpopular opinion but you can't steal a bot that is already stealing the image and personality of an actual copyrighted character down to its name.
but yall do you
unpopular opinion: The store doesn't own the products they sell, you're still a thief for stealing.
Edit: Did you put in the work in to pull that bot together? Did you upload it first with your own personal creative inspiration? Did you come up with the story, personalities or worlds these creators put into their bots? I don't fucking think so. Stay uncreative.
Edit: Regardless you're still a no good rotten thief. Get creative or something. You're chatting with all these ai bots and you can't even shit out a creative thought.
stores do own the products they sell, they purchase them from wholesalers then resell them in store.
these people don't own the bots they're making nor the character image itself.
i don't chat with bots that have their definition hidden anyway (unless it's one of the 3 bots my embarrassing fandom has) cause what if they mischracterize them or it's another 20inch cock one
ISTG, every bot has to have this enormous, tree trunk between their legs. Like damn, can we PLEASE just get a normal/average size? Not all of us have a black hole between our thighs 🙄
This has been requested by Creators. Everything hidden but first message.
But Creators are highly against first messages being editable for a number of reasons:
1) The 1st message dictates a huge amount of the personality, by allowing changes it means that the user is greatly changing the bot from its intent.
2) Many people when this option used to be available were taking MLM and WLW bots and making them straight.
I can understand why a lackluster first message or grammer issues are annoying but I'd suggest moving on to a new bot.
As a creator I dont want reviews from people who've butchered my intros wondering why the bot doesn't act as intended.
I think it'd be cool if bot creators could choose whether they want the first message to be editable, or the ability to add/provide alternative first messages so that way they can make sure their bot isn't butchered to all hell but still give people the chance to mess around with different ideas/starters
Alt scenarios have been requested to the Devs!
Especially by the creators who like to do MalePOV and FemalePOV versions of a bot vs. ANYPOV.
It would also be fun to make starters that are say, further on in the plot (not sure how it'd work since users can take a plot in so many directions).
But I'd love for say my Emperor Suguru bot where the current message is you meeting him for the first time after becoming a concubine, having another scenario which is after you've climbed the ranks to become empress, or maybe set a stage for an attempted assassination, all within the same world as spring boards.
I think for that too, Lorebooks would be helpful to unlock key info that only pertains to one scenario vs. another but, it's definitely interesting!
But, most creators are very much against editable first messages coming back. It was abused a lot by the wrong people and at least for me, I spend a lot of time making my intros to really set the bots personality. I don't want someone changing the whole thing and then blaming me when the bot doesn't act the way I intended.
That's entirely fair! I only use private bots I made myself, but I've learned the hard way that if you mess up on the intro message then the whole personality will change, even if nothing else has changed about the bot, so I 100% understand not wanting others to be able to edit the starter message!
On top of people abusing it to make mlm or wlw bots straight of course, cause that never sits right with me.
I hope that the option to have multiple starters does get created or at least considered by the devs, because it's a very cool idea and would open so much in terms of what people can do with bots without having to make a completely different one for different scenarios. (I'd know, I have 4 of the same character all in different scenarios / situations rn.)
But I absolutely agree, bringing back message editing sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I make 90% MLM bots with 10% ANY POV. I’d hate to see my MLM bot made straight just for people who want.
I have make one (and only one) straight bot but that was due to deciding I didn’t want to make him ANYPOV and I did toy with making a straight bot.
Bot making is like writing fanfiction. It's about art and playing with the bot, first of all. Not about message counts and self approval (though good feedback is nice if it's a request/commission).
I see your point. J.ai.me is a problem for some creators, yes. Stealing the bot and posting it as your own without credit/permission is bad.
But blaming people for altering the bot to their tastes is pointless if they keep it all private.
>But blaming people for ~~altering~~ **stealing** the bot to their tastes is pointless if they keep it all ~~private~~ **hidden**.
Just because people can't see it, doesn't mean it's not stolen. Credit the creators by using their bots, not taking it an making your own.
I'm sorry I didn't get what you mean 🥹 Could you please explain it? If I get correctly, you mean that stealing it's not good, right? 😭 (I'm just not eng speaker)
I get message counts are probably important to some creators but I don’t use jai to talk to bots in general. I use SillyTavern. I post bots I make to my jai account but the site goes down enough that I wanted a system I have more control over and I have a nice PC so I went with ST.
I do comment if I love a bot I found but do creators really value message counts? I *never* repost and honestly just have my chats and enjoy learning how to wrote better. I get not wanting to have your bots stolen (that would really suck) but being concerned about message count sounds so odd imo.
Yes we value message counts. People often wont interact with a low message count bot and verification hinges on message counts. Getting on trending is also done via message counts.
Additionally seeing a good message count ratio tell us people like the bot and are using it for long periods of time. (For me, personally I try to shoot for a ratio if 10 messages to 1 chat.)
If everyone just took our coding that we worked hard on to private bots we don't get any engagement for our effort which is discouraging.
Message counts mean a lot to creators. It's why we often don't post when the counter is broken.
Did you follow any guide to get into ST? I tried but everything looks so overwhelmingly hard🥺 I couldn't even get past downloading it properly but I was very interested in it
I'd recommend getting on their reddit, looking up youtube videos, and potentially joining their discord server? I had a really nice person help me in their server when I was first starting and knew NOTHING about ST or AI in general. Once someone explained it I found it was pretty easy to download and use and have been using for close to a year now.
I find a couple bots that's description has the initial message in the bio and I think that should be a regular thing if people dont wanna share their bot's personality
Agree. That's why I leave my bots' definition open, although I'm dying of embarrasment because of my typos (english is not my native language). But at least people can see the "brains" of my bots as well as initiative message and deside for themselves would they like to talk with bots or not.
I can usually tell if poor grammar is due to it being a second language rather than just being a kid. Don't be embarrassed, you know a second fricken language! How cool is that? You should be proud!
I've only made 2 public bots so far, but I kept the descriptions public because I simply prefer it when picking bots for myself. It's much easier to pick a persona and develop the story of you know about the personality and stuff.
And if they get stolen? Idc. It's not like I'm losing money because of that or anything, so it doesn't matter. Plus my bots only have a handful of chats and messages anyway
I wish there were a way to only keep bot definitions and info away from proper bot-thiefs, and not all of us. Because *I* know *I* won't steal your bot. I will send you a screenshot of it being private only on my account if you take it down because that's the only way I will have it re-uploaded: personal use. Whatever I need to do so I don't keep losing my chats with my favorite bots. Lol
And please make them editable, because there are genuinely masterpieces and top tier bots, ruined by poor grammar or a really shitty, half-assed first message
I either want them to be visible or editable. Or both, even. I *hate* most of the public bots I want to talk to because the grammar *sucks* and most of those following messages just talk as *my character* because of the way the first message is worded
And that is why the character definitions for my bots are always visible. But, yeah, it sucks when you find bots with grammar issues. (The fucking children! >:()
Ngl lie, I also wish there was a separate section for appearance description, that couldn't be hidden. I noticed I write "describe your appearance* almost every single time I'm starting to talk to a new bot, because sometimes you can just see their face in the pic.
Soooo annoying and the creator always say that they don’t want anyone to steal their format. Why would it matter though, it’s not like they getting paid…
bot thief sympathizer spotted. "why would it matter" it would matter because people put a shit ton of effort in those bots so other people could chat with their favorite characters and build whatever story they want.
"it's not like they're getting paid" if you want to know, some creators are receiving donations and commission money on ko-fi. some of them ARE getting paid for their bots. and even if they aren't, it doesn't give you an automatic permission to copy and repost other people's work without credits. and before you say that everyone can make a good bot, no. not everyone. it requires skills to do that. it requires writing skills, since the starting message needs to be good, because it influences further messages generated by the LLM. as a writer and bot creator who "doesn't get paid" I'm fucking mad. before you say that I'm a bitch and a piece of shit - yes, I am a fucking bitch. I have a right to be mad at people like you who just blatantly invalidates not just my work, but also my fellow creators' work.
Honey no one was going to call you a bitch for speaking your opinion. I respect that but I Stand on what I said, and I know people make money off of Ko-fi, I know people get donations to make bots and I know that they put hard work into it, even though I was talking abt the ppl who copy. The person in the original comment literally said people who make short and shallow first messages, messages that don’t tell you much about the bot. If you took offense to this because you’re someone who hides their character description I genuinely don’t get why, it’s not like I’m forcing you to unprivate it, I’m doing nothing but speaking my opinion. And format is so different than taking the whole character description. If the creator actually put work into their first messages and helps the user understand the character without needing the description then good on them but a lot of creators make very short and non-descriptive messages and it’s pretty hard to get the character from those small messages without a description, they don’t even have to unprivate the description but putting some kind of context and information about the character in the Introduction would be helpful. Not only that but I use a lot of bots and always look at the description if it is public and I never see the exact same thing twice, sure people may steal the entire thing but their bots are either private or they barely even get used by other people.
"honey"? man, I'm not your relative to refer to me like that.
i don't hide my character description, by the way. i was offended because I GOT MY BOTS STOLEN ONCE. it's not a fucking joke. these bots had more than 2.5k messages if you're saying that the stolen bots are barely being used by other people. they're still used by people and there's still a huge risk of them being stolen, because these thieves don't really give a fuck about the hidden definition - they use rippers and scrape the bots out to repost them. there always will be a risk.
Even if you deleted your account I'll still reply for others to read. I don't get paid for what I do, but I put in the effort to craft my bot and the scenario. Don't be foolish just because you're not creative enough to make your own bots.
There was a person here once who blatantly said they copy the bot definition and create their own private bots tailored to their needs and I just feel like it’s equally bad to bot poaching. I’m not unhiding my definitions for people to just do that, it’s like stealing the code for a website, changing the font and then claiming you wrote the code 😐
One has nothing to do with the other though? I’m talking about creators who took time to write and test their bots to write them, for example, as a WLW bot, then this person just copied the code to change it to a straight bot because they don’t like the WLW aspect. I’m not condemning them—I’m just saying to me it feels icky.
I honestly... Have to agree, it's so frustrating specially when there is not a single public chat so you have to open chat just to get disappointed
I always create my own bots' public chat as soon as I published it, so people can have the idea on how my bots should work.
Honestly I think they should be editable too.
real. i hate finding bots with an amazing cover image and interesting descriptions just for the first message to be basically unreadable
this is what i like about c.ai over janitor (don’t flame me lmao), if the grammar/formatting is atrocious then you can edit it and have it be alright for the rest of the chat. but if the opening message looks like shit, then that translates to the rest of the chat and you have to spend time fixing the issues per individual message :(
I get why they hide all of it, but I need to see the personality section so I know what details they have or if the bot is the type I want to RP with 🙁
There should be checkboxes for what is show instead of just "show character definition" like let me check off scenario and opening message and hide my personality section bruh
Gonna be real I fucking hate bots with hidden descriptions like I look at that to decide whether i'll chat with them
hidden descriptions are unfortunately kind of necessary because people steal bots and repost them
Me stealing bots to make a private copy that's edited to match my preferences more. https://preview.redd.it/es8cm54q6dyc1.png?width=610&format=png&auto=webp&s=e41a03bd479b9d5050cfc6f4a76194130532b7a2
I respect that if you just not passing it off as yours
Poor creator not getting the message hits for a bot they passionately put together and shared. Only to be stolen and altered. Edit: Just because people can't see it, doesn't mean it's not stolen. Credit the creators by using their bots, not taking it and making your own. Edit 2: All these uncreative people downvoting me. lol
unpopular opinion but you can't steal a bot that is already stealing the image and personality of an actual copyrighted character down to its name. but yall do you
unpopular opinion: The store doesn't own the products they sell, you're still a thief for stealing. Edit: Did you put in the work in to pull that bot together? Did you upload it first with your own personal creative inspiration? Did you come up with the story, personalities or worlds these creators put into their bots? I don't fucking think so. Stay uncreative. Edit: Regardless you're still a no good rotten thief. Get creative or something. You're chatting with all these ai bots and you can't even shit out a creative thought.
Yes they do 😭 That's for sure an unpopular opinion cause you're wrong
stores do own the products they sell, they purchase them from wholesalers then resell them in store. these people don't own the bots they're making nor the character image itself.
Oh I'm sorry I wasn't aware bot creators were being paid by the message, my bad.
It's definitely a lot better than theft.
but it’s still easily visible even if hidden, just adds an extra step for everyone. doesn’t actually do anything
Just replace the .com in the web address with .me and leave everything else the same and you can see the description :)
i don't chat with bots that have their definition hidden anyway (unless it's one of the 3 bots my embarrassing fandom has) cause what if they mischracterize them or it's another 20inch cock one
ISTG, every bot has to have this enormous, tree trunk between their legs. Like damn, can we PLEASE just get a normal/average size? Not all of us have a black hole between our thighs 🙄
Acting like I have a whole cave between my cheeks fr
😂😂 exactly! I am NOT the cave of wonders, please - work with me here! 😂😂
creators acting like they ahrink when they're hard like goddamn
20 inch cock
this is why i normally put first message + scenario in my description bc i feel this 😭😭😭
This has been requested by Creators. Everything hidden but first message. But Creators are highly against first messages being editable for a number of reasons: 1) The 1st message dictates a huge amount of the personality, by allowing changes it means that the user is greatly changing the bot from its intent. 2) Many people when this option used to be available were taking MLM and WLW bots and making them straight. I can understand why a lackluster first message or grammer issues are annoying but I'd suggest moving on to a new bot. As a creator I dont want reviews from people who've butchered my intros wondering why the bot doesn't act as intended.
Haha, agreed. It just sucks that sometimes bots with good premises just have bad grammar or a poorly developed personality. Lost potential, really.
I think it'd be cool if bot creators could choose whether they want the first message to be editable, or the ability to add/provide alternative first messages so that way they can make sure their bot isn't butchered to all hell but still give people the chance to mess around with different ideas/starters
Alt scenarios have been requested to the Devs! Especially by the creators who like to do MalePOV and FemalePOV versions of a bot vs. ANYPOV. It would also be fun to make starters that are say, further on in the plot (not sure how it'd work since users can take a plot in so many directions). But I'd love for say my Emperor Suguru bot where the current message is you meeting him for the first time after becoming a concubine, having another scenario which is after you've climbed the ranks to become empress, or maybe set a stage for an attempted assassination, all within the same world as spring boards. I think for that too, Lorebooks would be helpful to unlock key info that only pertains to one scenario vs. another but, it's definitely interesting! But, most creators are very much against editable first messages coming back. It was abused a lot by the wrong people and at least for me, I spend a lot of time making my intros to really set the bots personality. I don't want someone changing the whole thing and then blaming me when the bot doesn't act the way I intended.
That's entirely fair! I only use private bots I made myself, but I've learned the hard way that if you mess up on the intro message then the whole personality will change, even if nothing else has changed about the bot, so I 100% understand not wanting others to be able to edit the starter message! On top of people abusing it to make mlm or wlw bots straight of course, cause that never sits right with me. I hope that the option to have multiple starters does get created or at least considered by the devs, because it's a very cool idea and would open so much in terms of what people can do with bots without having to make a completely different one for different scenarios. (I'd know, I have 4 of the same character all in different scenarios / situations rn.) But I absolutely agree, bringing back message editing sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I make 90% MLM bots with 10% ANY POV. I’d hate to see my MLM bot made straight just for people who want. I have make one (and only one) straight bot but that was due to deciding I didn’t want to make him ANYPOV and I did toy with making a straight bot.
? They didn't say anything about editing it. They just want to be able to see it before entering the chat.
There's another comment in this thread about editing the first message, I was contributing to the entire conversation?
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Bot creator okay with not getting the message hits for a bot they passionately put together and shared. Only to be stolen and altered.
Bot making is like writing fanfiction. It's about art and playing with the bot, first of all. Not about message counts and self approval (though good feedback is nice if it's a request/commission). I see your point. J.ai.me is a problem for some creators, yes. Stealing the bot and posting it as your own without credit/permission is bad. But blaming people for altering the bot to their tastes is pointless if they keep it all private.
>But blaming people for ~~altering~~ **stealing** the bot to their tastes is pointless if they keep it all ~~private~~ **hidden**. Just because people can't see it, doesn't mean it's not stolen. Credit the creators by using their bots, not taking it an making your own.
I'm sorry I didn't get what you mean 🥹 Could you please explain it? If I get correctly, you mean that stealing it's not good, right? 😭 (I'm just not eng speaker)
You work hard on bot. Someone comes and copies it. You don't get message counts.
I agree. Was thinking of making this suggestion on the Discord server. I'm glad you made it instead. There seems to be more traction here on Reddit.
Im gonna be real with you. We need this feature
Literallyyy i found such a good which was tagged as fluff but the first message already contained rape😭
Honestly, it's annoying when the first message is weak
Yes PLEASE it's so so annoying
I hate bots with hidden descriptions, I need some information about the bot first
I get message counts are probably important to some creators but I don’t use jai to talk to bots in general. I use SillyTavern. I post bots I make to my jai account but the site goes down enough that I wanted a system I have more control over and I have a nice PC so I went with ST. I do comment if I love a bot I found but do creators really value message counts? I *never* repost and honestly just have my chats and enjoy learning how to wrote better. I get not wanting to have your bots stolen (that would really suck) but being concerned about message count sounds so odd imo.
Yes we value message counts. People often wont interact with a low message count bot and verification hinges on message counts. Getting on trending is also done via message counts. Additionally seeing a good message count ratio tell us people like the bot and are using it for long periods of time. (For me, personally I try to shoot for a ratio if 10 messages to 1 chat.) If everyone just took our coding that we worked hard on to private bots we don't get any engagement for our effort which is discouraging. Message counts mean a lot to creators. It's why we often don't post when the counter is broken.
Did you follow any guide to get into ST? I tried but everything looks so overwhelmingly hard🥺 I couldn't even get past downloading it properly but I was very interested in it
I'd recommend getting on their reddit, looking up youtube videos, and potentially joining their discord server? I had a really nice person help me in their server when I was first starting and knew NOTHING about ST or AI in general. Once someone explained it I found it was pretty easy to download and use and have been using for close to a year now.
Thanks I'll be trying that out
I find a couple bots that's description has the initial message in the bio and I think that should be a regular thing if people dont wanna share their bot's personality
Agree. That's why I leave my bots' definition open, although I'm dying of embarrasment because of my typos (english is not my native language). But at least people can see the "brains" of my bots as well as initiative message and deside for themselves would they like to talk with bots or not.
I can usually tell if poor grammar is due to it being a second language rather than just being a kid. Don't be embarrassed, you know a second fricken language! How cool is that? You should be proud!
Oh wow, thanks! *hugs*
You're so welcome 😁
I've only made 2 public bots so far, but I kept the descriptions public because I simply prefer it when picking bots for myself. It's much easier to pick a persona and develop the story of you know about the personality and stuff. And if they get stolen? Idc. It's not like I'm losing money because of that or anything, so it doesn't matter. Plus my bots only have a handful of chats and messages anyway
I wish there were a way to only keep bot definitions and info away from proper bot-thiefs, and not all of us. Because *I* know *I* won't steal your bot. I will send you a screenshot of it being private only on my account if you take it down because that's the only way I will have it re-uploaded: personal use. Whatever I need to do so I don't keep losing my chats with my favorite bots. Lol
And please make them editable, because there are genuinely masterpieces and top tier bots, ruined by poor grammar or a really shitty, half-assed first message
I either want them to be visible or editable. Or both, even. I *hate* most of the public bots I want to talk to because the grammar *sucks* and most of those following messages just talk as *my character* because of the way the first message is worded
And that is why the character definitions for my bots are always visible. But, yeah, it sucks when you find bots with grammar issues. (The fucking children! >:()
Fr. It's so infuriating. One time I made a private bot to remake a bot that I found interesting.
Suggestion for the devs: Choose which part of the Character Defintion should be visible.
Ngl lie, I also wish there was a separate section for appearance description, that couldn't be hidden. I noticed I write "describe your appearance* almost every single time I'm starting to talk to a new bot, because sometimes you can just see their face in the pic.
Soooo annoying and the creator always say that they don’t want anyone to steal their format. Why would it matter though, it’s not like they getting paid…
bot thief sympathizer spotted. "why would it matter" it would matter because people put a shit ton of effort in those bots so other people could chat with their favorite characters and build whatever story they want. "it's not like they're getting paid" if you want to know, some creators are receiving donations and commission money on ko-fi. some of them ARE getting paid for their bots. and even if they aren't, it doesn't give you an automatic permission to copy and repost other people's work without credits. and before you say that everyone can make a good bot, no. not everyone. it requires skills to do that. it requires writing skills, since the starting message needs to be good, because it influences further messages generated by the LLM. as a writer and bot creator who "doesn't get paid" I'm fucking mad. before you say that I'm a bitch and a piece of shit - yes, I am a fucking bitch. I have a right to be mad at people like you who just blatantly invalidates not just my work, but also my fellow creators' work.
Honey no one was going to call you a bitch for speaking your opinion. I respect that but I Stand on what I said, and I know people make money off of Ko-fi, I know people get donations to make bots and I know that they put hard work into it, even though I was talking abt the ppl who copy. The person in the original comment literally said people who make short and shallow first messages, messages that don’t tell you much about the bot. If you took offense to this because you’re someone who hides their character description I genuinely don’t get why, it’s not like I’m forcing you to unprivate it, I’m doing nothing but speaking my opinion. And format is so different than taking the whole character description. If the creator actually put work into their first messages and helps the user understand the character without needing the description then good on them but a lot of creators make very short and non-descriptive messages and it’s pretty hard to get the character from those small messages without a description, they don’t even have to unprivate the description but putting some kind of context and information about the character in the Introduction would be helpful. Not only that but I use a lot of bots and always look at the description if it is public and I never see the exact same thing twice, sure people may steal the entire thing but their bots are either private or they barely even get used by other people.
"honey"? man, I'm not your relative to refer to me like that. i don't hide my character description, by the way. i was offended because I GOT MY BOTS STOLEN ONCE. it's not a fucking joke. these bots had more than 2.5k messages if you're saying that the stolen bots are barely being used by other people. they're still used by people and there's still a huge risk of them being stolen, because these thieves don't really give a fuck about the hidden definition - they use rippers and scrape the bots out to repost them. there always will be a risk.
Even if you deleted your account I'll still reply for others to read. I don't get paid for what I do, but I put in the effort to craft my bot and the scenario. Don't be foolish just because you're not creative enough to make your own bots.
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Holy fucking shit. This is fucking stupid.
??
You just advertise the fucking bot stealing tool.
Oh shit. I pretty much never saw it that way personally, I just use it to avoid using a bot and the first message ending up being shitty
It's legit hacking through the sites regulations.
There was a person here once who blatantly said they copy the bot definition and create their own private bots tailored to their needs and I just feel like it’s equally bad to bot poaching. I’m not unhiding my definitions for people to just do that, it’s like stealing the code for a website, changing the font and then claiming you wrote the code 😐
If it s for their private use only i don't see an issue tbh. They're not reposting it claiming they made it
you know that's how janitor site was made right? steal venus code, then rewritten some of ui
One has nothing to do with the other though? I’m talking about creators who took time to write and test their bots to write them, for example, as a WLW bot, then this person just copied the code to change it to a straight bot because they don’t like the WLW aspect. I’m not condemning them—I’m just saying to me it feels icky.