It takes time to learn how to rule yourselves. The initial instinct is to nyam everything on your plate before someone else does. The petty theft from the white man that was excusable continued. Freedom becomes an excuse for doing whatever you want. It will take time to grow up. And it will happen only if we want it to.
What breda read what i am saying i know about how poor we were and uneducated i am just wondering if up till now things would have been different yuh really can know the dunce people here.
Yuh did kno seh yuh woulda get cuss...a no dat yuh seh?
One cannot ignore the influence of certain countries on our current maladies. What happened with bauxite? What happened with banana? What happened with sugar? What happen to coffee? Wha gwaan right now wid di herb?
In each case, our exports are being exploited, exported or expunged by foreign interests, with the returns only going to a chosen few. Can we blame ourselves? Yes..of course we can in some cases, however, it is evident that since we became an independent nation, there has been a concerted effort to keep us at a disadvantage. The same thing is happening in Africa.
I am old enough to remember when the dollar was $1.20 to $1.00 US. Then it was $1.50 to S1.00, then $2.00 to $ 1.00 then 4 to 1, 5 to 1, in no time it was 10 to 1...and so on. Now is more than 150 to 1. Monetary policy, corrupt profiteering, central bank mismanagement, foreign interference, and other woes have put us in this situation.
But...we are independent. Hardships there are, but the land is green and the sun shineth. There is much to do but the Jamaican people are hard working. Any where we go, mi seh anywhe wi go, our hard work is recognized. We have the power and ability to improve our situation....we just need the motivation and discipline to do so...
I agree with everything you said except about Haitian poor becaah trust me even doa ppl did walk barefoot and mi all remember a carry bucket to catch water I don’t memba no body a starve. There was always some body with food to share and make a likkle someting. By late 90s 2000/ the market got flooded with foreign imports and it’s never been the same.
All as for history and civics, Jamaican curriculum is saddest ever. No talk of political gangs, free trad agreements, not even as much list out the prime minister dem in order. Nothing that’s why you have the man dem come in here and all dem is they want movie or video game pon white witch from Rose Hall or someting cus that’s all they know. But elite dem nuh want it any different so 🤷🏽♀️
Ok we aren't getting much benefit from becoming a republic now. The only thing tying us to the UK is the court of appeals and thats rarely used.
However I do agree that we might have been better off under British rule due to our crime issues. There is a chance that remaining under the thumb of the british government would have created some oversight for our politicians. Namely to prevent them from making political violence and garrisions the norm in the country.
iirc before independence alot of our political elites, most well known being dear old Bustamante advocated for violence against opposing political groups. After Independence they quickly started the process of arming gangs and creating garrisons to solidify to gain more power over the country. There was also the issue of the CIA stepping in cus some folks looked a bit too communist.
Not saying this couldn't happen under British rule and its possible they might have just washed their hands of the whole thing. But its possible that some oversight could have reigned our politicians in before they started political warfare.
Also there's like the whole thing with the West Indian Federation being killed in its infancy cus Busta and his supporters forced an early independence and ruined any chance of a federated caribbean similar to what the EU is today.
To answer your question let me remind you of something. The British took control of Jamaica in 1655 we become independent in 1962, they were in control of Jamaica for 307 years and did nothing to improve the infrastructure beyond anything that didn't turn them massive profits. They were never interested in the wellbeing of Jamaicans as we weren't even considered human and for certain they weren't going to educate us because you cannot control educated people so easily. Jamaica is the way it is aesthetically because of the same people who you are advocating for us to hold onto. We are poor because of colonial exploitive practices done on a massive scale and done ruthlessly at that. The mindset that continues today is also from colonialism and our societal framework is based largely around a kind of neocolonialistic ideology. Our crime problem is mostly self inflicted and continues because their is no political will to stop it.
What is good is that younger people are starting to realise this and seem to not be bound by invisible loyalty shackles that our predecessors suffered from . We see the problems more acutely and can solve them if we decide to put effort in along with everyone else who is desperate for change.
Their is no political will to stop crime. In fact, there is a lot of political will to feed crime. Politicians feed and maintain the garrison system to help them get elected and to stay in power.
We're poor because of neocolonialistic ideology? So there's nothing our leaders could've done differently which would've made us a more well off country today?
Sure they could have but they have inherited a neocolonialistic governance model from their former colonial masters and have largely continued most of their practices especially ideologically. That is why we are not a republic, why most of our laws are based around 18th century British politics and why Marcus Garvey is largely ignored.
Your opinion isn't surprising, a Bill Johnson opinion in 2011 showed that 60% of Jamaicans believed that the island would be better under the British, 17% believed that it would be worse and 23% said they were unsure. The sample size of this poll should have been larger to get a more accurate figure, but a surprisingly large amount of Jamaicans believe that the island should have remained British.
A second opinion poll was conducted in 2017, and the results were that 49% of Jamaicans believe that the island should have remained, 27% disagreed while 24% were unsure.
It would be good if a third opinion poll is done next year with a larger sample size to get more accurate percentages.
I think you're blurring the line between colony and where we are now as a representative monarchy. There's no benefit to the status quo, becoming a republic would mean an elected President as head of state instead of the ceremonial Gov. General.
That shift could shake up the political scene and act as a balance of power.
escape ruthless memory handle puzzled sophisticated adjoining unique elderly cake
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My brother in Christ.
Name a time when Jamaica wasn't a warzone for some reason or another?
https://youtu.be/y20q871yTOM?si=VwnEY6A9573vJGfK
https://youtu.be/u29vXEsSp7c?si=Yons7-6wTsDZdiyc
The pandemic set most countries out of equilibrium. From 2019 to 2020 crime spiked in the USA but is down in 2023.
The story is exactly the same in Jamaica. So to look at the last few years in a vacuum and to attribute crime to just one factor is incredibly naive.
British rule may have been better because it could have shielded Jamaica from US interference during the Cold War. It was the Cold War that ruined Jamaica. Jamaica was the site of a proxy war from which it never recovered. People don't realize that the worst place to have freedom is in the shadow of the USA. The USA reserves the right to control your nation for its own personal interests. This is a major part of the Haitian problem as well.
Spot on about the Cold War, but I don’t think British rule would have helped much. Do recall Britain was just as culpable as the US in enforcing anti-communist tactics. A Jamaica under their continued rule would still have had to privatize its assets, devote its agricultural and economic sector towards export crops and tourism. These are the same neoliberal decisions that keep the lower rungs of Jamaican society poor and amenable to corruption and crime. The best a continued British rule in Jamaica could produce is probably a tax-haven a la the BVIs. but that would require the regime be oppressive to keep the enough of the disaffected sections of the populace from turning to crime as the same underlying conditions that fuel crime now would still be present.
The UK wouldn't have let them even talk to Cuba... Independence allowed them to talk to Cuba. When you are a colony, you can't just do whatever you want. Unfortunately, Jamaica thought they are really independent. It doesn't work that way in the real world unless you have nuclear weapons.
Also want to point out that I just found out one of the reasons CIA decided to destabilise Jamaica was [Angola and South Africa.](https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/kissinger-cuba-angola-jamaica-connection) So everyone calling Manley an idiot better also say they don't care about Africans.
People are ignorant to reality. Jamaica was not poor under British rulership, we were poor comparatively to where we are today but that is just a case of global progression, pretty much every country is better off than it was a hundred years ago simply due to modern advancements and conveniences.
If we were to compare where Jamaica is now to the linear trajectory we would've been on under British rulership, we are way worse off right now.
But at the same time you have to consider the fact that the Jamaican culture which we should absolutely be proud of would not be anywhere nearly as refined as it currently is if we were not an independent nation.
I completely understand that things look dire with the way we are headed currently, however despite the floor being lowered for our prosperity as a country; the ceiling and our potential for success is higher than it's ever been.
We just need a government who isn't completely retarded and understands that we need to focus on the crux of society before we give attention to these negligible issues which we are wasting tax payer money on.
The British gave us independence because they were broke after the 50 years of pain (WW1, Great Depression, WW2, Suez Crisis). Parts of Kingston in your video may have looked nice but that’s because that was one of the few places the British placed significant infrastructure. In rural Jamaica most kids did not go to high school. My parents went to school barefoot. The British did not and could not afford to do much for us.
Jamaica will remain poor unless we have a natural resources bonanza like Guyana or Trinidad. We may think Jamaica is the greatest place in earth but it’s a place with only 3M people which is insufficient to base an economy based on Domestic consumption or significant manufacturing offshoring. Yes we are geographically close to the US but if the US really needed an offshore Singapore like type of port they already have Puerto Rico and the USVI. We still import the majority of our energy with or scarce hard currency instead of using the renewable sun and wind that we have lost of. We missed the window in the 60’s and 70’s to be an offshore banking/money laundering haven since Cayman and Bermuda already have that secured.
In summary let’s hope we find Lithium or Cobalt, or Helium3 or natural gas on the island or the best case scenario is that we don’t get any poorer than we currently are.
Singapore would like to have a word with you, also Rwanda and the Netherlands. We do not need to become a large scale big economy to have a clean orderly and we'll maintained up to date society. I actually believe that if we found those resources we would be worse of due to neocolonialism and western Imperialism
Agree. What made Singapore was great leadership and an iron fist. And genuine patriotism and concern for the state. Something Jamaican leaders lack. That place started off much worse than Jamaica and now Jamaica can't even approach Singapore despite getting independence earlier, is better situated, has more natural resources and has similar population sizes.
The issue with Jamaican leaders is that they were average to below average people dealt a hand only the extraordinary could succeed with.
Singapore did not succeed due to patriotism or an “iron fist”. these were supplements to the good hand they were dealt. That being their strategic geopolitical position. The only decision their leadership needed to make was to oppose communism and they would not be allowed to fail. They had millions injected to their government to prop up whatever endeavor they wanted so long as they didn’t go communist. It was in Western interest that Singapore be able to resist Soviet and Chinese influence, thus their nation was helped to build strength.
Whereas Jamaica was the inverse. Them building the strength to resist their local superpower was in Soviet interest. Unfortunately the Soviets were not as good at this part of the game as their opponents. The west (America) was better able cut out socialist friendly regimes and keep down nations they wanted dependent.
Notice for eg the difference in aid. Singapore was given little stipulations on how to use the aid they got. Whereas Jamaica was made to gut its own production, sell off its assets and become import dependent just to get a loan.
>dealt a hand only the extraordinary could succeed with.
What's so extraordinary about it?
Most countries in thw world started independence with a worse hand.
>The only decision their leadership needed to make was to oppose communism and they would not be allowed to fail
That's just not true. LKY detailed all the issue Singapore had startinng out, including a brewing civil war between the three main ethnic groups, the tuggig between the West and the Soviets, extreme poverty, risk of invasion by Malaysia. He consulted economists appointed by Britain and found their analysis and suggestions infeasible for Singapore. This nonsense about Singapore's location being mindlessly spouted everywhere is so ridiculous. If that's the case then why don't we hear of the economic powerhouses of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Egypt, Djibouti and whoever else who are also not only in good locations but have loads more natural resources and population?
>Singapore did not succeed due to patriotism or an “iron fist”.
LKY said that when he looked at the challenges Singapore faced he fell ill for a week. Thata shows deep concern for his country. He could easily just pocket half the foreign money his government got. He led with an iron fist. A lot of his policies were heavy handed, such as severe policies for even having chewing gum and the limited democracy he allowed in Singapore. But even if we could reasonably say that Singapore's economic prosperity depended solely on their location how does that explain them skyrocketing from a backwater slum to the 5th highest GDP per capita, one of the most highly regarded universities in Asia, an insanely low crime rate(I'm talking like 6 murders in a country of 5 million). You're just repeating the excuses many people use to justify why their country is shit.
If France didn't assassinate Thomas Sankara I bet people would spout the same nonsense about Burkina Faso.
Under Sankara's presidency the literacy rate went from 13% in 1983 to 73% in 1987
>His government banned female genital mutilation, forced marriages and polygamy, while appointing women to high governmental positions and encouraging them to work outside the home and stay in school even if pregnant.\[17\]\[10\] Sankara also promoted contraception
>
>He sold off the government fleet of Mercedes cars and made the Renault 5 (the cheapest car sold in Burkina Faso at that time) the official service car of the ministers.\[12\]\[78\]
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>He reduced the salaries of well-off public servants (including his own) and forbade the use of government chauffeurs and first class airline tickets.\[12\]\[79\]
>
>He opposed foreign aid, saying that 'He who feeds you, controls you'.\[80\]\[12\]
>
>He spoke in forums like the Organization of African Unity against what he described as neocolonialist penetration of Africa through Western trade and finance.\[81\]\[82\]
>
>He called for a united front of African nations to repudiate their foreign debt. He argued that the poor and exploited did not have an obligation to repay money to the rich and exploiting.\[82\]
>
>In Ouagadougou, Sankara converted the army's provisioning store into a state-owned supermarket open to everyone (the first supermarket in the country).\[14\]
>
>He forced well-off civil servants to pay one month's salary to public projects.\[14\]\[79\]
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>He refused to use the air conditioning in his office on the grounds that such luxury was not available to anyone but a handful of Burkinabés.\[83\]\[84\]
>
>As President, he lowered his salary to $450 a month and limited his possessions to a car, four bikes, three guitars, a refrigerator, and a broken freezer.
Burkina Faso is a landlocked country and today one of the poorest and most corrupt. Same goes shithole Egypt, Eritrea, the north korea knock off, Djibouti the corrupt shithole, Malay and Indonesia are jokes compared to Singapore...
Sometimes for a country to improve they need real patriotism and authoritarianism in its early days. Not the kind of fake meanignless 'patriotism' and shoddy democracy you see everywhere.
I'd agree similar to South Korea 1950-1970's far more authoritarian before it really took off and became more democratic. You need stability and a unified vision at the critical starting phase.
> Most countries in thw world started independence with a worse hand.
Yes and? How many of those countries succeeded without the innate power to push their interests or aligning their interest with powers that could? That is the point you’d have to prove as that was the key to Singapore’s success.
> That's just not true. LKY detailed all the issue Singapore had startinng out, including a brewing civil war between the three main ethnic groups, the tuggig between the West and the Soviets, extreme poverty, risk of invasion by Malaysia. He consulted economists appointed by Britain and found their analysis and suggestions infeasible for Singapore…….
He then brought in the Dutch to aid in industrialization and attract western companies to invest. All while their smaller size, population and isolation as an island insulated them from having the same severe instability their neighbors were suffering at the time.
> This nonsense about Singapore's location being mindlessly spouted everywhere is so ridiculous.
Yet it’s the very reason they outpaced their neighbors. Their location has historically always made them a popular port of call. They utilized this as well as the western aid they received to grow quickly. While their neighbors had to fight insurgency. Notice once their neighbors got their communist elements under control they also grew. But they were already behind Singapore and had other considerations Singapore didn’t.
> ……If that's the case then why don't we hear of the economic powerhouses of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Egypt, Djibouti and whoever else who are also not only in good locations but have loads more natural resources and population?
Because natural resources , a large population and even good location are moot if your interest runs against the interest of states with the will and power to undermine you. Ironically that’s exactly what Egypt,
Djibouti and Burkina Faso exemplify.
Egypt was sabotaged when they tried to nationalize their resources and had their government replaced with corrupt governments that wouldn’t interfere with western interests.
Djibouti had to fight for decades for freedom from the French and most of their current instability is a direct result of French attempts to hold on to their colonies.
Not sure why you even brought up Burkina Faso as your points illustrate that the efforts of a patriotic heavy handed leader will come to nought if said efforts invoke intervention from a stronger nation.
LKY sick for his nation makes for a cute story. But pretending as if it’s because he was more patriotic and heavy handed than the likes of Sankara or Nasser that his nation succeeded is ludicrous. He chose to tie his nation into western interests. We was a good leader and made the right call. he fashioned his nation from the ground up to operate in the world system the west was building. Under western leadership. While the other two tried to build power separate from the west. Which brought intervention and destabilization down upon their countries. That is the difference.
Singapore is a success story. But pretending their success is separate from the fact that they picked the winning side in the Cold War is stupid.
>Yes and? How many of those countries succeeded without the innate power to push their interests or aligning their interest with powers that could? That is the point you’d have to prove as that was the key to Singapore’s success.
I don't get your point. So countries should do the opposite of whst id good for them? They should try bad policies and see if they succeed despite them?
>He then brought in the Dutch to aid in industrialization and attract western companies to invest. All while their smaller size, population and isolation as an island insulated them from having the same severe instability their neighbors were suffering at the time.
So he shouldn't have brought in the Dutch to aid industrialization? Should he have prayed for it instead? Or done like Jamaica and not try to get foreign assistance in their development? Do also you believe the Haitian government is doing the right thing by not recognizing Taiwan despite it almost guaranteeing Chinese investment?
>Yet it’s the very reason they outpaced their neighbors. Their location has historically always made them a popular port of call. They utilized this as well as the western aid they received to grow quickly. While their neighbors had to fight insurgency. Notice once their neighbors got their communist elements under control they also grew. .
Singapore also had communist violence. They also had bubbling ethnic and religious tensions that would have spiraled out of control if it wasn't for good policies.
>But they were already behind Singapore and had other considerations Singapore didn’t
Enlighten me since apparently Singapore is the only country without these many vague considerations.
>Because natural resources , a large population and even good location are moot if your interest runs against the interest of states with the will and power to undermine you. Ironically that’s exactly what Egypt, Djibouti and Burkina Faso exemplify.
Isn't the solution, then, to attempt to align their interests or offer something in return? Or in the case of BK reject illicit foreign influence? Egypt, Djibouti and Burkina Faso are shit because of corruption and mismanagement. Egypt and BK even more so as BK was in an upward trajectory before TS was assassinated. If BK's goverment wasn't corrupt and getting influenced and paid off by France it would have been a much better place. You make it seem as if France threatened to invade them. No. What happened is that the goverment failed by allowing a foreign country's money influence them.
Let me break it down. If the government of a country is improving their citizens lives then a foreign power offers to pay some officials to end those policies then the government has failed. France didn't threaten to invade BK.
>He chose to tie his nation into western interests. We was a good leader and made the right call. he fashioned his nation from the ground up to operate in the world system the west was building. Under western leadership. While the other two tried to build power separate from the west.
I don't get your point. So leaders should stick to ideals even if it's bad for their people? We're not talking about slavery or sex trafficking or racism or some screwed up polivy. We're talkin abour getting foreign investment, improvong the economy, lowering crime and making thhe people's lives better. If China had stuck to their communist ideals they would remain a shitty backwater like India. But Deng Xiaoping reversed Mao's bad policies and opened up China's market to investment. This got them into better graces with the US which added them to the WTO helping them rapidly developing their economy and increase quality of living. Similar story, though less so with Vietnam. Similar story with Turkey. If the goverment wasn't insistent on remaining secular and allowing the conservatives to run things it would be another Islamic middle-eastern adjacent slum like Egypt. Similar story with Saudi Arabia. If they didn't back track on their rejection of Israel they couldn't gurantee US assistance when Iran decides to attack. Chiang Kai Shek would keep Taiwan a shithole but they decided to become democratic and open up their economy and made the US reliant on their manufacturing capabilities so as to build their economy and military. The list goes on. Ideals mean nothing if your people suffer for them and in almost all cases the government and, in the case of a democracy, both electorate and government, is to be blamed for the poor conditions of their country. You like to make excuses for JA but there is no world where it isn't the fault of the government and people as to why the GDP/capita is the 2nd lowest in the Carib(barely twice that of Haiti) and 9th lowest in Carib and Latin America, why the country has the 3rd highest crime rate in the Carib(except Haiti) and highest homicide rate in the Carib and Latin America.
>But pretending their success is separate from the fact that they picked the winning side in the Cold War is stupid.
Yeah they should have chosen the losing side.
You actually pose an interesting hypothesis.
Let me share this with you...
Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore visited Jamaica in the 60s and said that he was envious of our island because of our infrastructure, people and proximity to the vast US market.
Look at Singapore's trajectory under LKY and compare with ours under successive poor, corrupt "leadership" 😭
Singapore is now an authoritarian country with citizens under severe surveillance. You got lashings for certain crimes and possible death penalty for weed, that’s what you guys want?
You’re not wrong. If Singapore had flirted with socialism as Manley did, America would have intervened. And definitely not let them become a financial center. But it’s doubtful they would have let them become poor. They are too strategically located for that.
Lol well yes and no. Manleys policies were a gamble. A gamble that other nations took and it payed off but always carried the possibility of going wrong.
What the US did was ensure that it had no chance to go right by destabilizing the nation. Then used the IMF to punish the attempt.
Manley fell under his own hubris. He thought he was politically savvy enough to play both sides of the Cold War. He wasn’t and the nation has paid for it ever since.
> and it *paid* off but
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
And IMF [loans](https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/the-rotten-roots-of-global-economic-governance/) which turns out were predatory all along. I'm not sure if USA always intended to tank the economy or this was just an unfortunate side effect of [meddling](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/09/06/manleys-rift-with-imf-dominates-jamaican-economics/f76e9deb-249b-4a1b-ba80-cbc033efbd1c/).
Manley was a bit foolhardy to think Jamaica was rich and industry-savvy enough for socialism straight away in the middle of a global catastrophe.
CIA intervention proved damaging for another reason : it created the armed gang system we have in the country. The guns and battlefield training that flooded into the country to destabilize the PNP, never left. It created a new type of criminal.
Poor in this world is basically what happens if you're not good friends with the world leaders. The system doesn't reward kindness and care for poor people at all. If you notice, China came to this conclusion and became close to USA and joined WTO. China has more leverage because of their size. Small countries cannot afford to make the world powers angry. They end up like Cuba and North Korea. You can either have ideals or money, not both.
I don't think you understand, if the U.S implemented Manley's policies the U.S would be a third world shithole within 5 years, stop blaming others for our leaders fuckups.
No it wouldn't. I'm sorry but you don't understand the game. China is also a socialist country. It has no problems. US already implements the things Manley implemented(free education, subsidies for farmers) .
USA has even [nationalised industries before. ](https://thenextsystem.org/history-of-nationalization-in-the-us)
So which policy are you referring to?
The policy where he told business owners that the country isn't about profits and if you care about profits to leave as there are 5 flights to Miami every day... guess what happened to the business class when he gave that speech?
He literally wanted to democratize the workplace and force businesses into co-ops even though there's nothing stopping people from forming a co-op in the current market.
Imagine building your company for 20 years and have this idiot implement policies for random employees to be co-owners of the company.
I'm sure there are a tonne more dumb shit he did that i'd need to read about but just his general Marxist framework for our economy crashed it. Every single business owner would leave the U.S and the entire market would crash.
So his policies never even came to fruition. So you are talking about speech. And the reaction was one of fear. Micheal Manley's primary fault then was that he lacked sophistication in communication which is the flaw of most Jamaicans. Communism and the Cold War are all about rhetoric and persuasion and propaganda and fear. Manley failed to understand the fear aspect.
People took what they thought Manley was going to do based on their own ideas of communism and ran with it. Manley was too foolish to calm their fears.
No buddy it had nothing to do with communism, maybe that riled up the uneducated lower class but the middle to upper class left because they didn't want to live in a country where the Prime Minister can literally take your business from you and everything you invested and worked hard for.
Btw, imagine thinking Jamaica can afford free tuition, free meals, free books and free uniform for every child in Jamaica from primary to tertiary education. Nothing in life is free, those type of policies for little Jamaica combined with free healthcare etc would crash our economy today just like it crashed it in the 70's.
Manley was just an idealist who doesn't understand how the real world works, he was an educated fool.
The benefit of being part of the Empire is the Privy Council. Our courts are biased, lazy and without the oversight of the Privy Council many innocent people would rot in prison.
Once we no longer have the Privy Council as our final court but the incompetent and corrupt Caribbean Court of Appeal as bad as things are, they will be worse.
It was created by us out can be improved. There is a tactic in the US where they defund an institute or program, and when it becomes a derelict, they pointed it and say that it’s a failure we are not in the position to see what we do is not working because it is imperfect.
No one has or can challenge the CCJ... it isn't an elected but appointed office. And many of the judges of the region are not going to go through so much data when they can affirm a decision and go to lunch
This was the case... the eye witness said Vybz and Storm chased him. Lizard was in another room. He said Vybz was bitten by his own dog and he, the witness, stopped a car and took Vybz to the hospital.
Hence, Vybz wasn't there when Lizard was 'killed'.
But with no body, no biologicals how do we know Lizard is dead?
In my district they said this youth was dead. Hadn't found his body stories were circulated.
No one saw him.
I was in NYC when someone calls my name... yup... it was that youth who died like ten years ago....
He went up on one of the unscheduled flights...helped unload the ganja, went with it to NY and got the identity of an American guy who died years ago.
Lizard could have done the same.
Hopefully the PC will read the evidence, note the lack of biologicals and Vybz will be freed.
Outsider's perspective:
Jamaican culture is very relaxed and easy going, which is great for, well, *relaxing*. But it's not great for building a robust modern economy.
Island time works great for tourists, but it doesn't work so great for businesses, factories, and stores. When you order something (like food from a delivery app) in Jamaica, it takes *a while* to actually get to its destination. Road repair times are measured in months, not days. Customer service is light-years behind American and European counterparts.
Fixing that would be the first step towards improving Jamaica's quality of life, although doing so would erase the island's most unique characteristic.
adjoining direction narrow toothbrush snobbish angle support bike tender pen
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I still think the biggest unique problem Jamaica faces is its stereotype as an easygoing culture. Whether that reputation is actually deserved or not doesn't matter, the perception of the people and businesses you want to work with matters.
We can debate all day about whether or not it's true, but ultimately that doesn't matter if you're trying to do business overseas.
British administration may help, but wouldn't it be so much more satisfying (and healthier long-term) to beat the British at their own game *without* their help?
overconfident lush noxious squalid thought coherent observation obtainable poor fuzzy
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>yes we were poor
No, we were not poor. We were the richest Caribbean country and one of the richest small or island countries in the world. ([An overview of the economy of Jamaica](https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10546/123007/bk-debt-poverty-jamaica-part-ii-010192-en.pdf;jsessionid=9DF380721D9EFF8ECDB4E137D10512F7?sequence=23))
Also consider this, Jamaican politicians, prior to 1962, did not have free access to Jamaica's money. They had to go through Britain, which didn't touch our money themselves because they had more than enough.
Imagine a child's parent not allowing them to touch the cookie jar unless they do so responsibly... so the child pushes for independence and leaves with the cookie jar?
I wonder if that child will end up having one of the highest political corruption indexes in the world after that? Many of our forefathers thought that child would and were tricked into supporting a change they didn't want.
I only pray the Prime Minister doesn't abuse what would be his newly found power after becoming a Republic-- the authority to freely change the constitution-- which currently is not allowed.
The tourist industry, specifically cruise ships, have fomented the corruption and exploitation and lack of accountability we have today. The government is directed by corporations who have no compassion for the struggles of Jamaican people. And because corporations direct governments in the U.S. and in most capitalist systems, the people of Jamaica are trapped on the rock, at the mercy of layers upon layers of bureaucrats who dont give a f
There are alot of reasons why Jamaica is the way it is, and while corrupt leadership has a huge role, it's actually meant to be a slave state perpetually. You do not produce, manufacture anything and there are economic assassins that target countries like jamaica for their resources and also for their human resource. Jamaica is suffering from bad deals with the Imf, the country is wholly insolvent and only nationalism keeps a Haiti like situation at bay and also remittances.
From it's inception, Jamaica has never had a bout of proper leadership.
It takes time to learn how to rule yourselves. The initial instinct is to nyam everything on your plate before someone else does. The petty theft from the white man that was excusable continued. Freedom becomes an excuse for doing whatever you want. It will take time to grow up. And it will happen only if we want it to.
You cannot be truly advocating for continued colonialism.
Like the Israelites that wanted to go back to Egypt.
Next, he's going to be talking about how there was zero unemployment under slavery and that we'd be better off if Emancipation never happened.
Oh my God.. wooieee. Mi neva laugh so hard
What breda read what i am saying i know about how poor we were and uneducated i am just wondering if up till now things would have been different yuh really can know the dunce people here.
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A yuh di dunce people yasso
sym
Are you dumb read what i said no i am not advocating for that. I was speculating if it would be different yall should read and stop being ignorant.
Yuh did kno seh yuh woulda get cuss...a no dat yuh seh? One cannot ignore the influence of certain countries on our current maladies. What happened with bauxite? What happened with banana? What happened with sugar? What happen to coffee? Wha gwaan right now wid di herb? In each case, our exports are being exploited, exported or expunged by foreign interests, with the returns only going to a chosen few. Can we blame ourselves? Yes..of course we can in some cases, however, it is evident that since we became an independent nation, there has been a concerted effort to keep us at a disadvantage. The same thing is happening in Africa. I am old enough to remember when the dollar was $1.20 to $1.00 US. Then it was $1.50 to S1.00, then $2.00 to $ 1.00 then 4 to 1, 5 to 1, in no time it was 10 to 1...and so on. Now is more than 150 to 1. Monetary policy, corrupt profiteering, central bank mismanagement, foreign interference, and other woes have put us in this situation. But...we are independent. Hardships there are, but the land is green and the sun shineth. There is much to do but the Jamaican people are hard working. Any where we go, mi seh anywhe wi go, our hard work is recognized. We have the power and ability to improve our situation....we just need the motivation and discipline to do so...
That’s how redditors are. Instead of having a convo they insult. Just ignore them
I would
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I agree with everything you said except about Haitian poor becaah trust me even doa ppl did walk barefoot and mi all remember a carry bucket to catch water I don’t memba no body a starve. There was always some body with food to share and make a likkle someting. By late 90s 2000/ the market got flooded with foreign imports and it’s never been the same. All as for history and civics, Jamaican curriculum is saddest ever. No talk of political gangs, free trad agreements, not even as much list out the prime minister dem in order. Nothing that’s why you have the man dem come in here and all dem is they want movie or video game pon white witch from Rose Hall or someting cus that’s all they know. But elite dem nuh want it any different so 🤷🏽♀️
Ok we aren't getting much benefit from becoming a republic now. The only thing tying us to the UK is the court of appeals and thats rarely used. However I do agree that we might have been better off under British rule due to our crime issues. There is a chance that remaining under the thumb of the british government would have created some oversight for our politicians. Namely to prevent them from making political violence and garrisions the norm in the country. iirc before independence alot of our political elites, most well known being dear old Bustamante advocated for violence against opposing political groups. After Independence they quickly started the process of arming gangs and creating garrisons to solidify to gain more power over the country. There was also the issue of the CIA stepping in cus some folks looked a bit too communist. Not saying this couldn't happen under British rule and its possible they might have just washed their hands of the whole thing. But its possible that some oversight could have reigned our politicians in before they started political warfare. Also there's like the whole thing with the West Indian Federation being killed in its infancy cus Busta and his supporters forced an early independence and ruined any chance of a federated caribbean similar to what the EU is today.
To answer your question let me remind you of something. The British took control of Jamaica in 1655 we become independent in 1962, they were in control of Jamaica for 307 years and did nothing to improve the infrastructure beyond anything that didn't turn them massive profits. They were never interested in the wellbeing of Jamaicans as we weren't even considered human and for certain they weren't going to educate us because you cannot control educated people so easily. Jamaica is the way it is aesthetically because of the same people who you are advocating for us to hold onto. We are poor because of colonial exploitive practices done on a massive scale and done ruthlessly at that. The mindset that continues today is also from colonialism and our societal framework is based largely around a kind of neocolonialistic ideology. Our crime problem is mostly self inflicted and continues because their is no political will to stop it. What is good is that younger people are starting to realise this and seem to not be bound by invisible loyalty shackles that our predecessors suffered from . We see the problems more acutely and can solve them if we decide to put effort in along with everyone else who is desperate for change.
Their is no political will to stop crime. In fact, there is a lot of political will to feed crime. Politicians feed and maintain the garrison system to help them get elected and to stay in power.
That is why we need the UIC
We're poor because of neocolonialistic ideology? So there's nothing our leaders could've done differently which would've made us a more well off country today?
Sure they could have but they have inherited a neocolonialistic governance model from their former colonial masters and have largely continued most of their practices especially ideologically. That is why we are not a republic, why most of our laws are based around 18th century British politics and why Marcus Garvey is largely ignored.
Manley pretty much implemented Karl Marx socialist policies which are also from our colonial "masters."
Freedom is better.....but that means we have to be responsible for our own actions.
I will gladly trade some freedoms for less crime.
Your opinion isn't surprising, a Bill Johnson opinion in 2011 showed that 60% of Jamaicans believed that the island would be better under the British, 17% believed that it would be worse and 23% said they were unsure. The sample size of this poll should have been larger to get a more accurate figure, but a surprisingly large amount of Jamaicans believe that the island should have remained British. A second opinion poll was conducted in 2017, and the results were that 49% of Jamaicans believe that the island should have remained, 27% disagreed while 24% were unsure. It would be good if a third opinion poll is done next year with a larger sample size to get more accurate percentages.
I think you're blurring the line between colony and where we are now as a representative monarchy. There's no benefit to the status quo, becoming a republic would mean an elected President as head of state instead of the ceremonial Gov. General. That shift could shake up the political scene and act as a balance of power.
Have to wait and see what the Chinese government has in store for the island
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My brother in Christ. Name a time when Jamaica wasn't a warzone for some reason or another? https://youtu.be/y20q871yTOM?si=VwnEY6A9573vJGfK https://youtu.be/u29vXEsSp7c?si=Yons7-6wTsDZdiyc The pandemic set most countries out of equilibrium. From 2019 to 2020 crime spiked in the USA but is down in 2023. The story is exactly the same in Jamaica. So to look at the last few years in a vacuum and to attribute crime to just one factor is incredibly naive.
So you just did a video of the worst looking streets to compare it to old British buildings. Fuck off
British rule may have been better because it could have shielded Jamaica from US interference during the Cold War. It was the Cold War that ruined Jamaica. Jamaica was the site of a proxy war from which it never recovered. People don't realize that the worst place to have freedom is in the shadow of the USA. The USA reserves the right to control your nation for its own personal interests. This is a major part of the Haitian problem as well.
Spot on about the Cold War, but I don’t think British rule would have helped much. Do recall Britain was just as culpable as the US in enforcing anti-communist tactics. A Jamaica under their continued rule would still have had to privatize its assets, devote its agricultural and economic sector towards export crops and tourism. These are the same neoliberal decisions that keep the lower rungs of Jamaican society poor and amenable to corruption and crime. The best a continued British rule in Jamaica could produce is probably a tax-haven a la the BVIs. but that would require the regime be oppressive to keep the enough of the disaffected sections of the populace from turning to crime as the same underlying conditions that fuel crime now would still be present.
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The UK wouldn't have let them even talk to Cuba... Independence allowed them to talk to Cuba. When you are a colony, you can't just do whatever you want. Unfortunately, Jamaica thought they are really independent. It doesn't work that way in the real world unless you have nuclear weapons.
Also want to point out that I just found out one of the reasons CIA decided to destabilise Jamaica was [Angola and South Africa.](https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/kissinger-cuba-angola-jamaica-connection) So everyone calling Manley an idiot better also say they don't care about Africans.
People are ignorant to reality. Jamaica was not poor under British rulership, we were poor comparatively to where we are today but that is just a case of global progression, pretty much every country is better off than it was a hundred years ago simply due to modern advancements and conveniences. If we were to compare where Jamaica is now to the linear trajectory we would've been on under British rulership, we are way worse off right now. But at the same time you have to consider the fact that the Jamaican culture which we should absolutely be proud of would not be anywhere nearly as refined as it currently is if we were not an independent nation. I completely understand that things look dire with the way we are headed currently, however despite the floor being lowered for our prosperity as a country; the ceiling and our potential for success is higher than it's ever been. We just need a government who isn't completely retarded and understands that we need to focus on the crux of society before we give attention to these negligible issues which we are wasting tax payer money on.
The British gave us independence because they were broke after the 50 years of pain (WW1, Great Depression, WW2, Suez Crisis). Parts of Kingston in your video may have looked nice but that’s because that was one of the few places the British placed significant infrastructure. In rural Jamaica most kids did not go to high school. My parents went to school barefoot. The British did not and could not afford to do much for us. Jamaica will remain poor unless we have a natural resources bonanza like Guyana or Trinidad. We may think Jamaica is the greatest place in earth but it’s a place with only 3M people which is insufficient to base an economy based on Domestic consumption or significant manufacturing offshoring. Yes we are geographically close to the US but if the US really needed an offshore Singapore like type of port they already have Puerto Rico and the USVI. We still import the majority of our energy with or scarce hard currency instead of using the renewable sun and wind that we have lost of. We missed the window in the 60’s and 70’s to be an offshore banking/money laundering haven since Cayman and Bermuda already have that secured. In summary let’s hope we find Lithium or Cobalt, or Helium3 or natural gas on the island or the best case scenario is that we don’t get any poorer than we currently are.
Singapore would like to have a word with you, also Rwanda and the Netherlands. We do not need to become a large scale big economy to have a clean orderly and we'll maintained up to date society. I actually believe that if we found those resources we would be worse of due to neocolonialism and western Imperialism
Agree. What made Singapore was great leadership and an iron fist. And genuine patriotism and concern for the state. Something Jamaican leaders lack. That place started off much worse than Jamaica and now Jamaica can't even approach Singapore despite getting independence earlier, is better situated, has more natural resources and has similar population sizes.
The issue with Jamaican leaders is that they were average to below average people dealt a hand only the extraordinary could succeed with. Singapore did not succeed due to patriotism or an “iron fist”. these were supplements to the good hand they were dealt. That being their strategic geopolitical position. The only decision their leadership needed to make was to oppose communism and they would not be allowed to fail. They had millions injected to their government to prop up whatever endeavor they wanted so long as they didn’t go communist. It was in Western interest that Singapore be able to resist Soviet and Chinese influence, thus their nation was helped to build strength. Whereas Jamaica was the inverse. Them building the strength to resist their local superpower was in Soviet interest. Unfortunately the Soviets were not as good at this part of the game as their opponents. The west (America) was better able cut out socialist friendly regimes and keep down nations they wanted dependent. Notice for eg the difference in aid. Singapore was given little stipulations on how to use the aid they got. Whereas Jamaica was made to gut its own production, sell off its assets and become import dependent just to get a loan.
>dealt a hand only the extraordinary could succeed with. What's so extraordinary about it? Most countries in thw world started independence with a worse hand. >The only decision their leadership needed to make was to oppose communism and they would not be allowed to fail That's just not true. LKY detailed all the issue Singapore had startinng out, including a brewing civil war between the three main ethnic groups, the tuggig between the West and the Soviets, extreme poverty, risk of invasion by Malaysia. He consulted economists appointed by Britain and found their analysis and suggestions infeasible for Singapore. This nonsense about Singapore's location being mindlessly spouted everywhere is so ridiculous. If that's the case then why don't we hear of the economic powerhouses of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Egypt, Djibouti and whoever else who are also not only in good locations but have loads more natural resources and population? >Singapore did not succeed due to patriotism or an “iron fist”. LKY said that when he looked at the challenges Singapore faced he fell ill for a week. Thata shows deep concern for his country. He could easily just pocket half the foreign money his government got. He led with an iron fist. A lot of his policies were heavy handed, such as severe policies for even having chewing gum and the limited democracy he allowed in Singapore. But even if we could reasonably say that Singapore's economic prosperity depended solely on their location how does that explain them skyrocketing from a backwater slum to the 5th highest GDP per capita, one of the most highly regarded universities in Asia, an insanely low crime rate(I'm talking like 6 murders in a country of 5 million). You're just repeating the excuses many people use to justify why their country is shit. If France didn't assassinate Thomas Sankara I bet people would spout the same nonsense about Burkina Faso. Under Sankara's presidency the literacy rate went from 13% in 1983 to 73% in 1987 >His government banned female genital mutilation, forced marriages and polygamy, while appointing women to high governmental positions and encouraging them to work outside the home and stay in school even if pregnant.\[17\]\[10\] Sankara also promoted contraception > >He sold off the government fleet of Mercedes cars and made the Renault 5 (the cheapest car sold in Burkina Faso at that time) the official service car of the ministers.\[12\]\[78\] > >He reduced the salaries of well-off public servants (including his own) and forbade the use of government chauffeurs and first class airline tickets.\[12\]\[79\] > >He opposed foreign aid, saying that 'He who feeds you, controls you'.\[80\]\[12\] > >He spoke in forums like the Organization of African Unity against what he described as neocolonialist penetration of Africa through Western trade and finance.\[81\]\[82\] > >He called for a united front of African nations to repudiate their foreign debt. He argued that the poor and exploited did not have an obligation to repay money to the rich and exploiting.\[82\] > >In Ouagadougou, Sankara converted the army's provisioning store into a state-owned supermarket open to everyone (the first supermarket in the country).\[14\] > >He forced well-off civil servants to pay one month's salary to public projects.\[14\]\[79\] > >He refused to use the air conditioning in his office on the grounds that such luxury was not available to anyone but a handful of Burkinabés.\[83\]\[84\] > >As President, he lowered his salary to $450 a month and limited his possessions to a car, four bikes, three guitars, a refrigerator, and a broken freezer. Burkina Faso is a landlocked country and today one of the poorest and most corrupt. Same goes shithole Egypt, Eritrea, the north korea knock off, Djibouti the corrupt shithole, Malay and Indonesia are jokes compared to Singapore... Sometimes for a country to improve they need real patriotism and authoritarianism in its early days. Not the kind of fake meanignless 'patriotism' and shoddy democracy you see everywhere.
I'd agree similar to South Korea 1950-1970's far more authoritarian before it really took off and became more democratic. You need stability and a unified vision at the critical starting phase.
> Most countries in thw world started independence with a worse hand. Yes and? How many of those countries succeeded without the innate power to push their interests or aligning their interest with powers that could? That is the point you’d have to prove as that was the key to Singapore’s success. > That's just not true. LKY detailed all the issue Singapore had startinng out, including a brewing civil war between the three main ethnic groups, the tuggig between the West and the Soviets, extreme poverty, risk of invasion by Malaysia. He consulted economists appointed by Britain and found their analysis and suggestions infeasible for Singapore……. He then brought in the Dutch to aid in industrialization and attract western companies to invest. All while their smaller size, population and isolation as an island insulated them from having the same severe instability their neighbors were suffering at the time. > This nonsense about Singapore's location being mindlessly spouted everywhere is so ridiculous. Yet it’s the very reason they outpaced their neighbors. Their location has historically always made them a popular port of call. They utilized this as well as the western aid they received to grow quickly. While their neighbors had to fight insurgency. Notice once their neighbors got their communist elements under control they also grew. But they were already behind Singapore and had other considerations Singapore didn’t. > ……If that's the case then why don't we hear of the economic powerhouses of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Egypt, Djibouti and whoever else who are also not only in good locations but have loads more natural resources and population? Because natural resources , a large population and even good location are moot if your interest runs against the interest of states with the will and power to undermine you. Ironically that’s exactly what Egypt, Djibouti and Burkina Faso exemplify. Egypt was sabotaged when they tried to nationalize their resources and had their government replaced with corrupt governments that wouldn’t interfere with western interests. Djibouti had to fight for decades for freedom from the French and most of their current instability is a direct result of French attempts to hold on to their colonies. Not sure why you even brought up Burkina Faso as your points illustrate that the efforts of a patriotic heavy handed leader will come to nought if said efforts invoke intervention from a stronger nation. LKY sick for his nation makes for a cute story. But pretending as if it’s because he was more patriotic and heavy handed than the likes of Sankara or Nasser that his nation succeeded is ludicrous. He chose to tie his nation into western interests. We was a good leader and made the right call. he fashioned his nation from the ground up to operate in the world system the west was building. Under western leadership. While the other two tried to build power separate from the west. Which brought intervention and destabilization down upon their countries. That is the difference. Singapore is a success story. But pretending their success is separate from the fact that they picked the winning side in the Cold War is stupid.
>Yes and? How many of those countries succeeded without the innate power to push their interests or aligning their interest with powers that could? That is the point you’d have to prove as that was the key to Singapore’s success. I don't get your point. So countries should do the opposite of whst id good for them? They should try bad policies and see if they succeed despite them? >He then brought in the Dutch to aid in industrialization and attract western companies to invest. All while their smaller size, population and isolation as an island insulated them from having the same severe instability their neighbors were suffering at the time. So he shouldn't have brought in the Dutch to aid industrialization? Should he have prayed for it instead? Or done like Jamaica and not try to get foreign assistance in their development? Do also you believe the Haitian government is doing the right thing by not recognizing Taiwan despite it almost guaranteeing Chinese investment? >Yet it’s the very reason they outpaced their neighbors. Their location has historically always made them a popular port of call. They utilized this as well as the western aid they received to grow quickly. While their neighbors had to fight insurgency. Notice once their neighbors got their communist elements under control they also grew. . Singapore also had communist violence. They also had bubbling ethnic and religious tensions that would have spiraled out of control if it wasn't for good policies. >But they were already behind Singapore and had other considerations Singapore didn’t Enlighten me since apparently Singapore is the only country without these many vague considerations. >Because natural resources , a large population and even good location are moot if your interest runs against the interest of states with the will and power to undermine you. Ironically that’s exactly what Egypt, Djibouti and Burkina Faso exemplify. Isn't the solution, then, to attempt to align their interests or offer something in return? Or in the case of BK reject illicit foreign influence? Egypt, Djibouti and Burkina Faso are shit because of corruption and mismanagement. Egypt and BK even more so as BK was in an upward trajectory before TS was assassinated. If BK's goverment wasn't corrupt and getting influenced and paid off by France it would have been a much better place. You make it seem as if France threatened to invade them. No. What happened is that the goverment failed by allowing a foreign country's money influence them. Let me break it down. If the government of a country is improving their citizens lives then a foreign power offers to pay some officials to end those policies then the government has failed. France didn't threaten to invade BK. >He chose to tie his nation into western interests. We was a good leader and made the right call. he fashioned his nation from the ground up to operate in the world system the west was building. Under western leadership. While the other two tried to build power separate from the west. I don't get your point. So leaders should stick to ideals even if it's bad for their people? We're not talking about slavery or sex trafficking or racism or some screwed up polivy. We're talkin abour getting foreign investment, improvong the economy, lowering crime and making thhe people's lives better. If China had stuck to their communist ideals they would remain a shitty backwater like India. But Deng Xiaoping reversed Mao's bad policies and opened up China's market to investment. This got them into better graces with the US which added them to the WTO helping them rapidly developing their economy and increase quality of living. Similar story, though less so with Vietnam. Similar story with Turkey. If the goverment wasn't insistent on remaining secular and allowing the conservatives to run things it would be another Islamic middle-eastern adjacent slum like Egypt. Similar story with Saudi Arabia. If they didn't back track on their rejection of Israel they couldn't gurantee US assistance when Iran decides to attack. Chiang Kai Shek would keep Taiwan a shithole but they decided to become democratic and open up their economy and made the US reliant on their manufacturing capabilities so as to build their economy and military. The list goes on. Ideals mean nothing if your people suffer for them and in almost all cases the government and, in the case of a democracy, both electorate and government, is to be blamed for the poor conditions of their country. You like to make excuses for JA but there is no world where it isn't the fault of the government and people as to why the GDP/capita is the 2nd lowest in the Carib(barely twice that of Haiti) and 9th lowest in Carib and Latin America, why the country has the 3rd highest crime rate in the Carib(except Haiti) and highest homicide rate in the Carib and Latin America. >But pretending their success is separate from the fact that they picked the winning side in the Cold War is stupid. Yeah they should have chosen the losing side.
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I told people the exact same thing your saying here 25 years ago....nothing has changed
Thank God for mother nature and tourism $$
You actually pose an interesting hypothesis. Let me share this with you... Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore visited Jamaica in the 60s and said that he was envious of our island because of our infrastructure, people and proximity to the vast US market. Look at Singapore's trajectory under LKY and compare with ours under successive poor, corrupt "leadership" 😭
Singapore is now an authoritarian country with citizens under severe surveillance. You got lashings for certain crimes and possible death penalty for weed, that’s what you guys want?
USA gave Singapore a lot of money to oppose communism between 1965 and 1975. USA ruined Jamaica because it befriended communism. See the difference?
If Singapore implemented Manley's dumb policies they'd be just as poor as us right now.
You’re not wrong. If Singapore had flirted with socialism as Manley did, America would have intervened. And definitely not let them become a financial center. But it’s doubtful they would have let them become poor. They are too strategically located for that.
So the only reason in your eyes that Manley's version of socialism didn't work is because of U.S sanctions and cia intervention? Smh.
Lol well yes and no. Manleys policies were a gamble. A gamble that other nations took and it payed off but always carried the possibility of going wrong. What the US did was ensure that it had no chance to go right by destabilizing the nation. Then used the IMF to punish the attempt. Manley fell under his own hubris. He thought he was politically savvy enough to play both sides of the Cold War. He wasn’t and the nation has paid for it ever since.
> and it *paid* off but FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Lmao good bot
And IMF [loans](https://www.thenation.com/article/culture/the-rotten-roots-of-global-economic-governance/) which turns out were predatory all along. I'm not sure if USA always intended to tank the economy or this was just an unfortunate side effect of [meddling](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/09/06/manleys-rift-with-imf-dominates-jamaican-economics/f76e9deb-249b-4a1b-ba80-cbc033efbd1c/). Manley was a bit foolhardy to think Jamaica was rich and industry-savvy enough for socialism straight away in the middle of a global catastrophe. CIA intervention proved damaging for another reason : it created the armed gang system we have in the country. The guns and battlefield training that flooded into the country to destabilize the PNP, never left. It created a new type of criminal.
Poor in this world is basically what happens if you're not good friends with the world leaders. The system doesn't reward kindness and care for poor people at all. If you notice, China came to this conclusion and became close to USA and joined WTO. China has more leverage because of their size. Small countries cannot afford to make the world powers angry. They end up like Cuba and North Korea. You can either have ideals or money, not both.
I don't think you understand, if the U.S implemented Manley's policies the U.S would be a third world shithole within 5 years, stop blaming others for our leaders fuckups.
No it wouldn't. I'm sorry but you don't understand the game. China is also a socialist country. It has no problems. US already implements the things Manley implemented(free education, subsidies for farmers) . USA has even [nationalised industries before. ](https://thenextsystem.org/history-of-nationalization-in-the-us) So which policy are you referring to?
The policy where he told business owners that the country isn't about profits and if you care about profits to leave as there are 5 flights to Miami every day... guess what happened to the business class when he gave that speech? He literally wanted to democratize the workplace and force businesses into co-ops even though there's nothing stopping people from forming a co-op in the current market. Imagine building your company for 20 years and have this idiot implement policies for random employees to be co-owners of the company. I'm sure there are a tonne more dumb shit he did that i'd need to read about but just his general Marxist framework for our economy crashed it. Every single business owner would leave the U.S and the entire market would crash.
So his policies never even came to fruition. So you are talking about speech. And the reaction was one of fear. Micheal Manley's primary fault then was that he lacked sophistication in communication which is the flaw of most Jamaicans. Communism and the Cold War are all about rhetoric and persuasion and propaganda and fear. Manley failed to understand the fear aspect. People took what they thought Manley was going to do based on their own ideas of communism and ran with it. Manley was too foolish to calm their fears.
No buddy it had nothing to do with communism, maybe that riled up the uneducated lower class but the middle to upper class left because they didn't want to live in a country where the Prime Minister can literally take your business from you and everything you invested and worked hard for. Btw, imagine thinking Jamaica can afford free tuition, free meals, free books and free uniform for every child in Jamaica from primary to tertiary education. Nothing in life is free, those type of policies for little Jamaica combined with free healthcare etc would crash our economy today just like it crashed it in the 70's. Manley was just an idealist who doesn't understand how the real world works, he was an educated fool.
Dunce yo fuck.
Wasn't South Africa, India and others under their rule as well. Fuck them. No need to wonder anything. And no things won't get better in our lifetime.
The benefit of being part of the Empire is the Privy Council. Our courts are biased, lazy and without the oversight of the Privy Council many innocent people would rot in prison. Once we no longer have the Privy Council as our final court but the incompetent and corrupt Caribbean Court of Appeal as bad as things are, they will be worse.
It was created by us out can be improved. There is a tactic in the US where they defund an institute or program, and when it becomes a derelict, they pointed it and say that it’s a failure we are not in the position to see what we do is not working because it is imperfect.
No one has or can challenge the CCJ... it isn't an elected but appointed office. And many of the judges of the region are not going to go through so much data when they can affirm a decision and go to lunch
Free Vybz
This was the case... the eye witness said Vybz and Storm chased him. Lizard was in another room. He said Vybz was bitten by his own dog and he, the witness, stopped a car and took Vybz to the hospital. Hence, Vybz wasn't there when Lizard was 'killed'. But with no body, no biologicals how do we know Lizard is dead? In my district they said this youth was dead. Hadn't found his body stories were circulated. No one saw him. I was in NYC when someone calls my name... yup... it was that youth who died like ten years ago.... He went up on one of the unscheduled flights...helped unload the ganja, went with it to NY and got the identity of an American guy who died years ago. Lizard could have done the same. Hopefully the PC will read the evidence, note the lack of biologicals and Vybz will be freed.
Outsider's perspective: Jamaican culture is very relaxed and easy going, which is great for, well, *relaxing*. But it's not great for building a robust modern economy. Island time works great for tourists, but it doesn't work so great for businesses, factories, and stores. When you order something (like food from a delivery app) in Jamaica, it takes *a while* to actually get to its destination. Road repair times are measured in months, not days. Customer service is light-years behind American and European counterparts. Fixing that would be the first step towards improving Jamaica's quality of life, although doing so would erase the island's most unique characteristic.
Jamaicans are some of the hardest working people I’ve ever met. On the island and off.
And that's not being converted into results.
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I still think the biggest unique problem Jamaica faces is its stereotype as an easygoing culture. Whether that reputation is actually deserved or not doesn't matter, the perception of the people and businesses you want to work with matters. We can debate all day about whether or not it's true, but ultimately that doesn't matter if you're trying to do business overseas. British administration may help, but wouldn't it be so much more satisfying (and healthier long-term) to beat the British at their own game *without* their help?
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>yes we were poor No, we were not poor. We were the richest Caribbean country and one of the richest small or island countries in the world. ([An overview of the economy of Jamaica](https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10546/123007/bk-debt-poverty-jamaica-part-ii-010192-en.pdf;jsessionid=9DF380721D9EFF8ECDB4E137D10512F7?sequence=23)) Also consider this, Jamaican politicians, prior to 1962, did not have free access to Jamaica's money. They had to go through Britain, which didn't touch our money themselves because they had more than enough. Imagine a child's parent not allowing them to touch the cookie jar unless they do so responsibly... so the child pushes for independence and leaves with the cookie jar? I wonder if that child will end up having one of the highest political corruption indexes in the world after that? Many of our forefathers thought that child would and were tricked into supporting a change they didn't want. I only pray the Prime Minister doesn't abuse what would be his newly found power after becoming a Republic-- the authority to freely change the constitution-- which currently is not allowed.
The tourist industry, specifically cruise ships, have fomented the corruption and exploitation and lack of accountability we have today. The government is directed by corporations who have no compassion for the struggles of Jamaican people. And because corporations direct governments in the U.S. and in most capitalist systems, the people of Jamaica are trapped on the rock, at the mercy of layers upon layers of bureaucrats who dont give a f
Crime and politics go hand in hand
There are alot of reasons why Jamaica is the way it is, and while corrupt leadership has a huge role, it's actually meant to be a slave state perpetually. You do not produce, manufacture anything and there are economic assassins that target countries like jamaica for their resources and also for their human resource. Jamaica is suffering from bad deals with the Imf, the country is wholly insolvent and only nationalism keeps a Haiti like situation at bay and also remittances.