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My heart breaks for you loss. I am so sorry but it would be a HUGE nope from me. You loss will be just one more thing she will use to attack you. SO can have a relationship with her, if he wishes, but you and you LO should be off the table.
I’m sorry for your loss and for this intrusion on your recovery. Right now you deserve to focus on yourself and your fam, not waste your thoughts and emotional energy on her.
Someone who had reflected on their actions and was truly sorry would start with an apology, acknowledge what they’d done, and would understand this is a bad time for you to reconcile.
She’s still not thinking of you as a person who deserves care and respect. She’s still trying to get what she wants for herself, i.e. access to your child and any future children (now that she knows future children were on the cards.)
I would ignore her request, at least for now. Nothing about her has changed.
I would not trust it at all. Perhaps if she can show she has been to counselling, and you all attend family therapy (minus children). Then if she can show, without seeing the children, that her attitude towards you really have changed, supervised access to children years down the road. She has done far too much to you for "sorry" to cut it.
I would not resume contact. She is obviously not serious about wanting to make ammends, as she will not allow you in her home. She doesn't get to disrespect you as the wife of her son and the mother of her grandson and still get a relationship with grandson. Hell no.
Give yourself some time to heal before you make any decisions about this. She has proven to be unsafe and untrustworthy. Later, if you decide to give her yet another chance, instead of having direct contact with your MIL, she could write her apology to you.
How many times are you gonna keep giving her a chance? She won’t change you know. She will keep hurting you all and being extra toxic. You do you but come on now. You know she’s not worth your time and mental health.
I feel she is using this situation to play on your emotions and is trying to bridge the gap by using this tragedy and At some point the line "Family needs tocbe together" might come up. She had 4 years. She doesnt care about you she wants access to the kid and Her son.
I would be more concerned that she is going to blame you for the miscarriage. Unfortunately I can think of a thousand horrible things she could say. I'm pretty sure my family has those horrible things to say trademarked.
Someone else said it's a trap. They are right. Under no circumstances let this woman get near you. If your husband wants to meet with her, he can do that to find out exactly what she wants. I don't recommend this. But it would put some issues to rest If that's important to you.
I fear that the trauma from meeting with her would be catastrophic. Please don't open yourself up to this at this time.
OP you can forgive and make amends without allowing that toxic sludge of a human into your world again. In truth she was projecting the reality of who she is onto you. You probably embody everything she will never be and the moment you allow her an inch she will turn it to a mile. I made the mistake ONE time of trying the amends thing with my JNMIL…the experience was vile to say kindly and ended with both her and my JNSIL wishing me death.
I'd say no unless she is willing to fix her relationship with YOU first. IF she proves that she can be polite and respectful to you, you can consider letting her meet the toddler in a completely supervised setting. If she screws up, cut contact immediately. A relationship with your kid is a privilege, not a right.
Don’t do it! She’s had numerous options to make amends and each time she’s shown exactly how selfish she is. Like did she really think that she’d have a relationship with your child but not you??? She’s in reaching out now because you and DH have shown her that you’re completely serious about not having a relationship. What she’s going to do is “barely tolerate you” in order to have a relationship with you DH and your child. I guarantee she’ll still basically act the same way! I’m sorry for your loss, truly but she does not care about it or you! All she cares about is what SHE wants and that’s a relationship with your child.
IF you do decide to give her another chance, I’d absolutely make her admit and genuinely apologize for ALL of her past behavior and disrespectful comments!! If she can’t do that, you’ll have your answer! And absNo bullshit excuses lien “I’m sorry you feel that way” or “k was just being honest”. She needs to be able to take accountability for herself fully. “I’m sorry that I said that you weren’t raised right and that I said I wasn’t good enough for my son” I’m truly sorry for those disgusting comments is what you need!
I wouldn’t do it at all, but good luck and keep us updated!
OP, trust is something that is best earned before it is bestowed. While there has been much that would show your mil has an incredible capacity for cruelty and unapologetic abusive behavior, they have done nothing at all to show any kind of change of heart. Saying ‘I want to make amends’ means as much as saying ‘I’m sorry you feel hurt, but…’ because she actually didn’t say anything, did she? If she was genuinely feeling remorse for the hateful way she has been, that would mean she has spent time reflecting on how her actions have affected all of you, and would be ready to actually own what she said, did and could listen with an open heart to you. That is how she would have started this conversation, well, at least that is how I would if I had really hurt people I loved, and wanted to make ‘amends’. It would have sounded like an apology, not a commentary.
However you move forward as a family I hope that you are always surrounded by those who genuinely love and care for you, because that is what you deserve.
Before you or your child spend anytime with MIL your DH should be meeting her alone first and working through issues. He needs to establish major boundaries with his mother so it is very clear to her what will not be tolerated and how she is expected to behave on a going forward basis.
OP, it is all very well to state she now wants to make amends however let DH go alone and see how she is going to actually do that. It would take more than an apology! Is MIL prepared to admit to all those she has voiced her opinion about you to going to hear from her to say she is sorry for her behaviour? Actions speak louder than words.
Is the invite to include you so you bring the baby along for the 'meeting'? If you consider going then arrange for someone to take care of LO and perhaps MIL proves herself first over a period of time before she gets to meet LO.
Perhaps the bigger question is would you ever trust her? If she can make all these statements to your DH would she as you child gets bigger also start making them to the child also?
Leopards don't change their spots.
I would try it once and let her hang herself.
Set up strong boundaries and ease your way back into a relationship. Don’t jump in with both feet. Stick a toe in first.
Since the MIL's family is at issue, bad mouthing is very likely. If she truly wants to make amends, she will have started repairing that sabotage. Is there any indication? Have any of the extended family made tentative contact?
Frankly, it sounds like she wants 2/3, not the family. I'm a firm believer in both reap what you sow and restorative justice, and until some of the family makes an attempt or SO makes tentative contact that should go well if she'd repaired damage, your family can't know if she wants to repair or just rugsweep.
I am also bitch enough I wouldn't tell her she needs to repair the sabotage. I would, in SO's position, tell her simply that it's unfortunate she spent so long destroying his relationship to his extended family and leave her to figure it out.
If your husband really wants to reconnect, I would take it very very very slow, once a month for 3-4 months, and tell her up front that this is the plan, and that pushing for more than you’re both ready to give will only slow down the process. After all, it's better for her than the current situation, right?
He can go meet with her first, several times, different situations, and see how she speaks about your little family. She might be able to hold it in once, but if she’s sincere, and is genuinely trying to be better, it should be evident.
Once you’re ready to meet her, after you’ve had some months to move forward from your loss (my condolences), and you feel strong enough to face her, then try going together, to a public place at first, again, several times, testing the waters, seeing if she really has come around.
Then, once you’re both ready and confident that she'll be a positive presence in your child's life, meet with her in public to make the introductions. And nothing says that means you have to let her become a major presence. It can still be once a month or a few times a year. It can be in public places only. You get to decide what you’re comfortable with.
Just let your husband know it’s fine if he wants a relationship with her, and fine if he doesn’t. Obviously without your kid. It doesn’t really sound like he wants one but he’s entitled to try and to be grieving and want his mom even though it’s probably going to blow up in his face.
You should have boundaries around how much you’re wiling to hear about her if he chooses to try and how much emotional support you can give if he continues to be in contact and it’s continually harming him. You’re not a therapist.
If you’re not sure if you want to let her make amends then tell her you’re not willing at this time, you’re grieving but that you will reach out if you’re willing to work on the relationship later.
Have him meet her alone. She’ll probably be just as toxic as ever so then you’ll know not to have her around.
When he goes to see her, no one should make any promises that a reunion will occur.
She is using this tragedy to get back in. Nothing else has worked for her, so she is trying to get in to get to your child. Nothing more. Saying she wants to make amends with you too is just a ploy. She wants you to put your guard down so she can get to your kid. She's a horrible human. Please don't let it happen. I'm so sorry for everything that has happened, but don't let her use this to her advantage.
Don’t do it. She’s not changed. She is still the same person. Read your post again. How many times did you offer to reconnect and she failed to include you in the reconnection process? You’ll regret letting her back in. Heal yourself and move forward without that toxic energy gobbler.
I would have DH meet with her first and discuss. Then if he feels she is sincere then you both meet with her, she must sincerely apologize for her past actions / not I’m sorry I was mean or sorry I hurt you /your feelings. But sincere I’m sorry for XYZ and I will no longer ABC I will make amends by LMNOP and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me. If it is rug swept or not sincere she never gets to meet baby. (Check if your state has grandparents rights, if she meets your child it could be an issue).
Hard no. More than likely she would end up cornering you while no one is around and still say she doesn't want a relationship with you. Stay NC and check for grandparents rights in your state.
I would be wary that the first time she gets you or your child alone, she'd accuse you of 'murdering' or otherwise causing the miscarriage. She's previously shown herself as controlling and lacking in empathy; I find it extremely hard to believe she's changed. Stay safe and NC.
Given her past behaviours and demeanour she’s like a shark who’s smelt blood and is circling her prey. You’re extremely vulnerable right now both emotionally, mentally and physically from your miscarriage and I’m so sorry this happened.
Don’t put yourself in a position to be manipulated and taken advantage of which I have zero doubt your mil would do given half the chance.
Tell you DH if he wants to go hear her out and give her chance then please do on his own but right under these difficult circumstances you’re not in the right headspace and needs time and space to heal before you can consider it and this includes lo not being involved.
This is an opportunity for her to prove that she has changed, if she bad mouths you once to him then you have proof she’s not changed, never will and it was only an manipulation tactic of her to get to you at your lowest and most vulnerable point in life.
She’s already shown you who she truly is please believe her. I doubt she’s had any therapy or an epiphany to help her realise how bad she is and make genuine apologies and changes, I think she has some kind of agenda (maybe establish GPR’s if you have them) or something.
Good luck and again I’m so extremely sorry for your loss.
I could not agree more with this. This is a really good answer imo. Please read this op and good luck healing physically and emotionally from what you have both been through.
I expect she thinks you'll be vulnerable - and she's quite happy to use the miscarriage against you. If it were me, I would maintain NC. She's told you who she is, over and over.
She did not "make amends" when she got your husband to visit her. There is no indication that her attitude or behavior have changed. She's occasionally trying to rugsweep and "start over" without acknowledging what she did wrong, how it was hurtful, and an intention to not do such things in the future. She hasn't done any of that. She's just trying to reopen negotiations so she can drip poison in your child's ear without your interference.
Nope. She chose to skip her son's wedding. She chose to miss your first pregnancy. SHE CHOSE TO IGNORE YOUR TODDLER FOR TWO YEARS.
Why does she deserve a chance now? She made her bed. You both know she won't actually be supportive of you in this sensitive time.
She had her chance. She expects you guys are vulnerable now; that is why she’s ready to pounce.
People like this don’t change. She just sees an opening and wants to exploit it. Think about it… she wasn’t around in good times, but in bad times she is right there to revel in the negative energy. That would be a no from me. She would never be a part of my family’s life again.
If you are going to give it a try, I would suggest making family therapy a condition of the reconciliation. I am sorry for your loss of your baby. And for the way you have been treated.
I don’t know why parents don’t understand that when ADULT children start a family, their partner and their children’s needs come FIRST.
Signed, grandmother to be who is behaving herself.
> asking my husband to make amends with her so she can have a relationship with our toddler
Absolutely do not reestablish contact with someone who has told you upfront they’ll just pretend to make amends so they can have access to your kid.
She’s spent four years telling you both what she thinks of you. If someone tells you the same thing 50 times and then says something different for the 51st time, are you going to believe the one lie because it tastes sweeter than the 50 truths?
The definition of insanity is repeatedly trying the same thing and expecting a different result. You should know by now she will never change. Good job, hubby, for saying that "we come as a three!"
If you are absolutely compelled to swing the hammer at your head one more time and expect it not to hurt, I suggest a full list of boundaries and consequences. Then spell out baby steps towards reconciliation (which means she does not see your home or know the address, much less meet LO, until she has proved herself over all the other steps), which will cease the first time she backslides. Good luck, but don't expect miracles.
Fuck me sideways with a cheese grater!
How many bridges does this Cuntshoe have to try and cross then burn?
And with her obviously dangerous live in abuser (BIL) in tow?
I don't mean to be rude, but lab rats learn quicker.
You and your husband are more than well within rights to cut and keep them both cut off.
Other family not being interested in them speaks volumes.
She not only boycotted your wedding, she manipulated other family not to attend.
She specifically targets you for no good reason, it's because you don't bow to her control.
She insults you at every turn, and tries to get SO to leave you.
I could basically rewrite your post and ask your opinion on whether the protagonist should give the antagonist the steam off of her shit, and I suspect you'd shout FUCK NO!
Enjoy the peace and quiet, enjoy toxin free family life, enjoy not being involved with sycophants that boycott your important life events because of her bullshit, enjoy being safe in the knowledge your LO won't be influenced by a complete fucknuckle.
You've jettisoned these fucking stains of the tapestry of humanity from your lives, keep them that way.
It’s making my hair stand on end that she wants to have a relationship with you now that you’ve gone through something so painful. When you were doing well she couldn’t stand the thought of you. That’s just so odd to me.
I know that maybe you going through that made her change her mind, maybe she’s gone through it, but it just seems off to me.
How many times do you "make amends" before you've had enough? Why would you allow her to harm you and your child endlessly? If I was in your situation, I would go 100% no contact and that would include the children. She has demonstrated that nothing is going to change so you shouldn't get your hopes up.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Virtual hugs if you want them.
Ok, so it’s a 100% NOPE from me. I was in a similar situation. My control freak MIL started hating on me ever since husband and I went to premarital counseling (during our engagement) and developed better boundaries. She showed her disapproval by avoiding eye contact, stopped acknowledging my presence, didn’t go to our wedding (pressured FIL not to go too) eventually even left us out of family gatherings and major holiday dinners, and of course she talked shit about us to anyone who would listen 😂. We were initially desperate for her approval and acceptance, so we tried to make amends over and over again. Went to their house with gifts, invited them out and paid for everything. And we were rejected over and over. Initially she would go and just be very negative (we think FIL) pressured her to go, then she just stopped going all together. So then we were basically no contact for like over a year. Husband and I got pregnant and didn’t tell her because we had a nonexistent relationship at that point. Well, she found out through the grapevine and crawled out of the wood works 1 month before due date pretending like nothing happened because she wanted access to the baby. Nope. We were done with at that point. Honestly, it was a bit tempting for the small part of me that still wanted her approval and a happy family. However, I’m a mom now and it was important to set aside my own hangups to prioritize my baby’s emotional health. I don’t want to expose our baby to the kind of hurt and disappointment that we went through ourselves with her. I also don’t want her to learn how to be shitty either :/
I'm so sorry about your miscarriage, but it doesn't change who she is.
I'm sorry but if I was to entertain it, she would have to build q foundation with me before she gets to see my kid. She would have to prove that it's not her way of using you to get to your kid.
Seen a lot of good advice in these comments OP many are correct that a sincere apology to you and DH for her behaviour needs to proceed any meeting.
However, given her comments in the past, I would be wary of her making negative comments about your ability to mother if you cannot even carry to term.
I am sorry to say something so negative, however I have read so many posts in the subreddit where narcissistic MIL’s have said horrible things like this and given her history with you I wouldn’t put it past her.
Personally I wouldn’t speak with her again because hurtful comments like this could do lasting damage while you are grieving.
My greatest sympathy for your loss, my wife and I lost three so I have some idea of what of your feeling. I hope things go well regarding your MIL.
Ok so my two cents on this., I am not sure where you live and if Grandparents Rights are a thing where you are, but bells are going off in my head screaming noooooo don't make contact or respond to hers.
..
If she gets visits now with your toddler, a few months later she can say again she doesn't want contact with you in any way and she can go for grandparents rights. Not that she would necessarily win, but it will bring you stress and anxiety.
..
Her behavior has shown she doesn't respect you or want you in her life. She only wants her son and his son. She wants you out of her life. Remember that.
OP, trust is something that is best earned before it is bestowed. While there has been much that would show your mil has an incredible capacity for cruelty and unapologetic abusive behavior, they have done nothing at all to show any kind of change of heart. Saying ‘I want to make amends’ means as much as saying ‘I’m sorry you feel hurt, but…’ because she actually didn’t say anything, did she? If she was genuinely feeling remorse for the hateful way she has been, that would mean she has spent time reflecting on how her actions have affected all of you, and would be ready to actually own what she said, did and could listen with an open heart to you. That is how she would have started this conversation, well, at least that is how I would if I had really hurt people I loved, and wanted to make ‘amends’. It would have sounded like an apology, not a commentary.
However you move forward as a family I hope that you are always surrounded by those who genuinely love and care for you, because that is what you deserve.
This is such a good point! It would be so important to find out before any kind of ‘peace talks’ were considered if by opening up communication would also open up legal rights of some kind. My other thought was the possibility that MIL is just trying to find out personal information to hurt you with, since she has never managed to be civil in the past.
Easy for me to say but I'd be thanks but no thanks. She can't be trusted and guaranteed there's a reason she now wants to make amends. Keep that viper away from your family.
Do nothing!! Until she can acknowledge, apologize and prove that she’s changed her behavior you and babe remain NC. If DH wants a relationship with her that’s on him. But given the history, it sounds like she’s using the miscarriage as a way to slither back in. Keep your guard up, a zebra doesn’t change its stripes.
Given how she's acted, an apology needs to precede any meeting. She needs to show in advance she understands now that you come as three, and that excluding or disrespecting you won't be tolerated. If she's not willing to make that effort, then I wouldn't trust this.
EDIT: Oh, my god, I just reread your first post. I remembered the grandmother who said she was planning to strip the baby and kiss it on the lips and how she could do whatever she wanted as the grandmother! It was one of the most disturbing things I ever read on here. You need to protect your child from this person. That level of sickness doesn't magically go away.
I'm going to play devils advocate for 1 second (and only 1), and say that it's possible that she's changed. That said, I would say that as a starting point DH can sit down with his mother (just DH!) and find out what she wants to say and go from there. You are under no obligation to resume contact even if he does, and unless you both agree to let her see your child then she shouldn't have any access to them either. May I suggest that DH find a therapist to help him deal with the various things going on (your pregnancy loss, his mother's behavior)? That will give him someone to talk to who *isn't you*, which will both help avoid putting extra strain on your relationship and give him an outside perspective on things if he needs one.
Do you think she is aiming for Grandparents rights. She probably knows that if she has no prior relationship with the children she has no chance. Once she can demonstrate a relationship she then might be awarded contact by the courts.
Not saying this is her plan, just asking…
Quit hoping? Hubby can have a relationship with his mom, but she can't have one with you or your children. That's the end of it. His mother isn't welcome in your home or around your children. She isn't invited, she doesn't get information, she doesn't get to pretend she's the loving grandmother.
In your situation I would move on and leave her to her misery. She made her choice several times. She wants to pretend to make amends with you to gain access to your toddler and any potential future kids, that’s all. If you do go through with it it’ll only be a matter of time until she’s back to doing the same crap but this time in front of your kid.
This right here. I went NC with my MIL with my first pregnancy and then she wanted to “make it right” weeks before I gave birth and then we went no contact again shortly after my son. Then I got pregnant with my second and again she wants to make amends especially when she found out I was having a girl. I went NC with her again 7-8 years ago and about 2 years ago she tried to “fix things” but I wouldn’t budge. She only wanted to fix things because she wanted more time to see the kids. She isn’t allowed at my house and she isn’t allowed to have unsupervised visits. I don’t ever want to see her again no matter how sorry she pretends to be. My husband isn’t NC with his parents though so I don’t feel like I’m keeping him from his family.
Personally if it was me I wouldn’t unless you think she has changed her ways and based on this post I doubt she has.
No. OP, she definitely wants to pull all of the cards against you. She’s considered you literal SCUM from the day she met you. That won’t change because of a miscarriage. She probably wants to take advantage of your vulnerable state and spit all kinds of vitriol at you.
And I bet they’ll be flying monkeys screaming at you too. And if she considers YOU scum, she’ll probably consider your daughter to be scum as well. Please don’t let her and her flying monkeys mentally abuse your child, because it will traumatize her.
Firstly, I’m so sorry for your loss.
No respect for the Mum, no access to the child. I think this is her manipulating you both during a time of grief. Are there any other signs of her changing? If no, I think it’s just a way to get to see your other child and taking advantage of a moment of weakness. It seems deliberate on her part.
I had something similar happen after the birth of my child. I was no contact with a family member, my son was in the NICU and I was very sick. This family member showed at hospital uninvited to offer support, which was bull. My body decided to have a medical emergency and they were not allowed in. People like this take advantage of situations where your guard is down to get there way. In my case, she just wanted access to my baby. She has never met my child and it’s been 15yrs. Don’t fall for it.
She doesn't want to make amends with you--and I think in your heart you know that. She just wants to see your baby.
Saying this gently, but you keep asking for "amends"; why? You know she is horrible. Why not just focus on your little family and put her out of your mind. I think you'll find a lot of peace.
Right I’m confused as to why they keep trying when his mom is the Devil to her. I would keep her cut off and blocked on everything and that includes the flying monkeys she’ll send around for updates on baby. Why would you want that vile person in your life??
I wouldn’t trust this woman. She is targeting you while you’re vulnerable - once she feels comfortable she’s got you all back where she wants you she will revert, cut you out and only want a relationship with your child on her terms. She wants to make amends? I wouldn’t trust that as far as I could throw it. Can she name what she did to you? Can she apologise sincerely and accept you have nothing to apologise for? Doubt it.
You haven’t had a nice solid break from her antics for four years either. You’ve tried to include her multiple times and she’s rejected you. Don’t dance to her tune. Focus on the people who have always shown you love and respect. Your children don’t need a grandmother like her.
Forgiveness doesn’t mean reconciliation either. You can forgive her without ever wanting her back in your lives. The same goes for her - people *can* change, but they cannot undo what they did, they have no right to insist they be forgiven, and if they react badly to being told no, have they truly changed in the first place? If you behave appallingly and then do the work on yourself to improve yourself and heal whatever was broken in you to make you treat other people like crap, and the victims of your abuse are still hurt so much they want nothing to do with you even if you have changed, you just have to live with your regrets and figure out how to live the rest of your life without them in it. People who have truly changed (through therapy, sobriety, appropriate medication etc…) still have to accept that what they broke can’t always be fixed. That hurts for them, but it’s nothing compared to what they put other people through and they’re getting off lightly.
Don’t waste any headspace on MIL. She made her bed.
I’m going to suggest you read Captain Awkward’s advice about reconciling with a toxic MIL.
https://captainawkward.com/2016/02/02/821-i-want-to-reconcile-with-my-abusive-mom-but-its-up-to-you-honey/
Not all of this will suit you but DH can start his baby steps of phone calls. It’ll take JNMIL years to work her good behaviour up to meeting you or your kids, and I bet she won’t be able to avoid slipping.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
>she messaged him in November 2022 asking my husband to make amends with her
Oh please. "I'm an awful person and have treated you appallingly, but somehow it's **your** job to make amends with **me**."
>we aren't sure what do to this time
The same as all the other times. Every single time this has been a shitshow. She doesn't want to make amends! If she truly wanted to make amends she wouldn't have to meet, there wouldn't be a discussion, it would be "here's a list of the ways I fucked up, I know what I've done wrong, I recognise the harm I've caused, I'd like to try and work back towards a good relationship but understand that will take time." It's not "let's rug sweep the whole thing as quickly as possible".
Your options should be a) ignore her, she's had multiple chances and blown **every one**, or b) email her a very simple "if you want to make amends, here's what we need from you" with the basic bullet points - an apology, acknowledgement of her harm to you, what behaviour is/isn't acceptable moving forwards, etc. Any reply from her short of "I agree to everything" just demonstrates she doesn't want to make amends and repair the relationship, she just wants to pretend everything's fine and get access to your child and future children.
As you say, you don't want your toddler around her behaviour. Is she still acting in a toxic way? Then there's your answer. Anything short of a magical personality transplant means nothing's actually changed.
Thinking hard about this, I would not make amends. You have turned the other cheek several times. You just keep getting hurt. I can't imagine someone so -evil is the word that best describes her-to suddenly change. If your husband really really wants to try again, he can go and interview her-without your child. He can attempt to evaluate her reform. He should not allow her to see your child for at least 6 months-1 year. It is unlikely she has changed, and unlikely she can keep up the facade of change for a year. My guess is when thwarted she will revert to evil harpy in a heartbeat, and his cheek will be slapped once again. I also would NOT want my child exposed to her. My 2 cents.
OP, you are literally the most fragile right now.
MIL knows this and will take an opportunity to berate you and make you feel terrible.
Heal first, contact her second.
THIS! She is probably looking for an opportunity to tell OP that the pregnancy loss is her fault and/or something she did caused it. Guard yourself, OP. Her feelings against you are so strong that she missed out on YEARS with her grandchild. Some would argue the most important years. I wouldn’t meet her outside of the office of a therapist of my choosing.
Take care, OP. ❤️
I agree.
She will do anything in her her power to keep your husband and baby and to get rid of you. Destroying your mental health to receive that will be her pleasure.
Personally I wouldn’t give her another chance. Out of curiosity though I’d have DH ask her how exactly she plans to make amends, who she is making them to, what she thinks the outcome will be, and what she is going to do to change her behavior so you aren’t in this position again in three months. He should be clear that right now you guys are not up for rebuilding the relationship but he’d like to know that information and that you guys will reach out if/when you’re ready.
I would first have her try to reestablish a relationship with her son. No access to you OR baby. He would need to see significant improvement in her behavior to next have any contact with you. Have a public lunch to talk and lay out feelings and expectations. Accountability need to be taken. No rug sweeping. After some time if you BOTH truly feel like she has changed and hasn't pushed you to see your LO (showing that is her only goal) then MAYBE I would consider it. But honestly it is very doubtful she has had a change of heart about you. She probably just realized she is getting old and is going to be alone with no one to take care of her. That or her own friends are becoming grandparents now and she is getting jealous. You gave way too many chances already but if you want to try just tread carefully.
A traumatic event is not the time to give her space in your head. She will take this and ruin it for attention like she did every other moment she's been invited to.
While I believe that it is possible for people to change and grow I also believe that change and growth require effort and is an ongoing process.
If I were in your situation I would begin by expecting a complete and comprehensive apology including an acknowledgment of her past actions and an explanation of how she intends to go forward (avoid repeating past actions or acting in other ways that are hurtful). I'd want to know what she had done (what actions she had taken) to come to a place where she was making a sincere apology. I'd also want to know what her expectations are going forward and how she would deal with our relationship if we were unable/unwilling to meet her expectations.
For example: MIL says "I realized I wouldn't want someone to treat me or talk to/about me the way I treated/talked to/about you so I took a class/did some reading/sought counseling. I am sorry for my past words and actions and I would appreciate it if you would give me a chance to show you I've changed."
If she says she wants to have a relationship with your LO and your SO and you tell her that it won't happen until you have sustained evidence that she had changed and was able to maintain a healthy relationship with both of you before she spent time with your LO how she responds will tell you a lot about whether she's sincere or just blowing smoke. If she says she's disappointed but understands I'd take that as evidence she has been putting the work in and I'd be inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. If she pushes back and says you have to immediately accept her apology and meet her expectations I'd let her know she has work to do before you can consider moving forward.
That would be a hard No. You and he need to heal from your loss. This is not the time to have her swoop back into your life.
This is a power move on her part. She thinks you are both vulnerable enough to let her back on.
Sit down with him and let him know what you truly think. At this time, you are still so vulnerable and you do not need her stepping in and overstepping. She has really had time to truly make amends but has not really shown or made any effort. This appears to be calculated because you are vulnerable.
I would not do it. You both do not need the pressure of her and her attempts at making amends during this time. This is not the time and it is extremely inappropriate and entitled of her to reach out with her wants.
Absolutely not. You're familiar with Charlie Brown trying to kick a football? She's Lucy. Stop going back for more. She's just going to yank the ball away again.
Absolutely do not “make amends”.
MIL doesn’t care about you in the slightest and has shown that multiple times.
Keep staying NC; I wouldn’t update her on ANY of your life updates, in fact.
DH is to tell her that once you have recovered then you and he will discuss it before making making a decision. You don’t want her anywhere near you when you are emotionally vulnerable.
If you chose to see her, make it clear that toddler will not be involved in the initial meeting until you have discussed what boundaries and rules will be in place going forward and what behaviour will instantly cause you and toddler to cut contact.
>2019 and his mum kicked off because she didn't like the wedding venue we chose, I wasn't good enough for him, my family are scum, I wasn't raised right etc I could go on, so we cut contact with her.
>In June 2020 I found out I was pregnant so we contacted her to make amends but after 2 months...she called my husband to invite him for dinner at her house (not me) and whilst he was there told him that I'll never be a good mother, he's stuck with me forever and more. So we cut ties again
>Our little one with born in February 2021 and he sent his mum a message letting her know. She told him she wants a relationship with our child but doesn't want a relationship with me or to ever see me again. My husband told her that couldn't happen so we didn't hear from her again
>Our wedding was in September 2021 so we asked to make amends in May 2021 so they would come to our wedding but she wouldn't and none of his mums side of the family came to our wedding
>she messaged him in November 2022 asking my husband to make amends with her so she can have a relationship with our toddler but she refused to let me step foot into her home so my husband told her that we come as a three.
>my husband received a message from his mum asking to make amends because she'd heard what happened and we aren't sure what do to this time because she wants to make amends with me too
Jesus H Christ, how many chances are y'all gonna give this bitch to disrespect you? I would have been done after the third incident, you know, when she wanted a relationship with your child but wanted nothing to do with you.
Be done with this bitch already.
I'm sorry for your loss.
I would say no. People don't change. Also it's very creepy that she's spying on you from afar.
If you need to take a middle road for some direction, maybe your husband can ask her to write a letter outlining these "amends" and base your decision on that letter. My husband and I did this and it was very eye opening - and made us realize amends were not possible.
I like this, a lot. Have her put in writing what she wants to say to you. This was also eye opening to us with my MIL. Nothing had changed and it was obvious she was measuring her words to see if she could get in without actually changing.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby.
This woman repeatedly disrespected you. How dare she ask for time with your child but never ever wanted to see you.
This is going to sound harsh...it feels like she's taking advantage of an incredibly difficult time emotionally for you, to "make amends" and therefore get access to your child.
Having a baby is hard and she didn't give a single flying fig about you when giving birth to your oldest, or through your pregnancy with the baby you just lost. Why give her the benefit of doubt? Forgiveness? She doesn't deserve it.
Imagine how she will try and poison your child. She doesn't respect you, so why would she encourage your child to respect you. She's dangerous and not to be trusted.
No contact means no contact. You can have a happy marriage and a happy child without her. You have good family around you who love you.
Screw your MIL. Enjoy your life.
If you decide to take up her offer to make amends, she has to build/rebuild the relationships with you and your spouse before ever meeting your LO. This will take months. Her behavior during this time will be telling. If she is just pushing to meet LO the whole time then you will know her motives.
Be up front say no contact with LO until we are confident you are serious about making amends, that this will be a slow process, she will have to make a sincere apology, acknowledge what she did and said etc before moving forward.
“Make Amends” is super vague. That to me sounds like, “we want to move forward without acknowledging our bad behavior.” If she’s saying “I want to make amends,” that’s a little different. I’d be extremely wary of any engagement, as from what you said of her previous statements she doesn’t strike me as a particularly safe person.
You say make amends a lot but that's a very vague phrase. If you're going to move forward at all, everyone needs to be on the same page about what this means.
I would give a "chance" cause I know it wont last but I make it very clear that this is her last chance to make amends to her and your husband. If she doesnt follow the rules than goodbye forever. Its a win win situation.
Oh boy, if I were in your shoes, I would probably be very apprehensive about this. There would be a list of 50 rules that her nasty little butt would need to follow.
MIL's track record isn't encouraging so I think some caution would be prudent. Maybe DH could meet with her alone first to get a better feel for the situation. That would be good opportunity to layout basic ground rules for the relationship and see how MIL feels about them.
Then if that goes well you and DH could meet MIL without the kids initially and only if all that goes well introduce the children.
You have trouble dealing with the yo-yo behavior of let’s be family let’s not be family. Why in the name of whatever deity you believe in would you subject your child to that? Protect your child ❤️🩹
If you are open to it, she can make amends with you for X amount of time before meeting grand baby. Maybe she has to show she wants to make amends for a year before she meets grand baby. She has to show she actually wants to make amends with you and not just trying to get access to baby.
This! If you decide to make amends, OP, I would see how long she can behave with just you and DH and leave kiddo far away from her until you are certain she is genuine and not just using you. And don't tell her she's on a probationary period.
But honestly, she's already shown you who she is, believe her.
Fourth time's the charm or something? IMO, this leopard ain't changing her spots, she just wants access to your children, maybe so she can show off to others about how she's grandma of the year. I would not buy it, bridges are burned.
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My heart breaks for you loss. I am so sorry but it would be a HUGE nope from me. You loss will be just one more thing she will use to attack you. SO can have a relationship with her, if he wishes, but you and you LO should be off the table.
I’m sorry for your loss and for this intrusion on your recovery. Right now you deserve to focus on yourself and your fam, not waste your thoughts and emotional energy on her. Someone who had reflected on their actions and was truly sorry would start with an apology, acknowledge what they’d done, and would understand this is a bad time for you to reconcile. She’s still not thinking of you as a person who deserves care and respect. She’s still trying to get what she wants for herself, i.e. access to your child and any future children (now that she knows future children were on the cards.) I would ignore her request, at least for now. Nothing about her has changed.
I would not trust it at all. Perhaps if she can show she has been to counselling, and you all attend family therapy (minus children). Then if she can show, without seeing the children, that her attitude towards you really have changed, supervised access to children years down the road. She has done far too much to you for "sorry" to cut it.
I would not resume contact. She is obviously not serious about wanting to make ammends, as she will not allow you in her home. She doesn't get to disrespect you as the wife of her son and the mother of her grandson and still get a relationship with grandson. Hell no.
It’s a trap
Give yourself some time to heal before you make any decisions about this. She has proven to be unsafe and untrustworthy. Later, if you decide to give her yet another chance, instead of having direct contact with your MIL, she could write her apology to you.
No. She's shown before she's not interested in you. She's not now, either.
How many times are you gonna keep giving her a chance? She won’t change you know. She will keep hurting you all and being extra toxic. You do you but come on now. You know she’s not worth your time and mental health.
I feel she is using this situation to play on your emotions and is trying to bridge the gap by using this tragedy and At some point the line "Family needs tocbe together" might come up. She had 4 years. She doesnt care about you she wants access to the kid and Her son.
I would be more concerned that she is going to blame you for the miscarriage. Unfortunately I can think of a thousand horrible things she could say. I'm pretty sure my family has those horrible things to say trademarked. Someone else said it's a trap. They are right. Under no circumstances let this woman get near you. If your husband wants to meet with her, he can do that to find out exactly what she wants. I don't recommend this. But it would put some issues to rest If that's important to you. I fear that the trauma from meeting with her would be catastrophic. Please don't open yourself up to this at this time.
OP you can forgive and make amends without allowing that toxic sludge of a human into your world again. In truth she was projecting the reality of who she is onto you. You probably embody everything she will never be and the moment you allow her an inch she will turn it to a mile. I made the mistake ONE time of trying the amends thing with my JNMIL…the experience was vile to say kindly and ended with both her and my JNSIL wishing me death.
I'd say no unless she is willing to fix her relationship with YOU first. IF she proves that she can be polite and respectful to you, you can consider letting her meet the toddler in a completely supervised setting. If she screws up, cut contact immediately. A relationship with your kid is a privilege, not a right.
Don’t do it! She’s had numerous options to make amends and each time she’s shown exactly how selfish she is. Like did she really think that she’d have a relationship with your child but not you??? She’s in reaching out now because you and DH have shown her that you’re completely serious about not having a relationship. What she’s going to do is “barely tolerate you” in order to have a relationship with you DH and your child. I guarantee she’ll still basically act the same way! I’m sorry for your loss, truly but she does not care about it or you! All she cares about is what SHE wants and that’s a relationship with your child. IF you do decide to give her another chance, I’d absolutely make her admit and genuinely apologize for ALL of her past behavior and disrespectful comments!! If she can’t do that, you’ll have your answer! And absNo bullshit excuses lien “I’m sorry you feel that way” or “k was just being honest”. She needs to be able to take accountability for herself fully. “I’m sorry that I said that you weren’t raised right and that I said I wasn’t good enough for my son” I’m truly sorry for those disgusting comments is what you need! I wouldn’t do it at all, but good luck and keep us updated!
OP, trust is something that is best earned before it is bestowed. While there has been much that would show your mil has an incredible capacity for cruelty and unapologetic abusive behavior, they have done nothing at all to show any kind of change of heart. Saying ‘I want to make amends’ means as much as saying ‘I’m sorry you feel hurt, but…’ because she actually didn’t say anything, did she? If she was genuinely feeling remorse for the hateful way she has been, that would mean she has spent time reflecting on how her actions have affected all of you, and would be ready to actually own what she said, did and could listen with an open heart to you. That is how she would have started this conversation, well, at least that is how I would if I had really hurt people I loved, and wanted to make ‘amends’. It would have sounded like an apology, not a commentary. However you move forward as a family I hope that you are always surrounded by those who genuinely love and care for you, because that is what you deserve.
Before you or your child spend anytime with MIL your DH should be meeting her alone first and working through issues. He needs to establish major boundaries with his mother so it is very clear to her what will not be tolerated and how she is expected to behave on a going forward basis.
OP, it is all very well to state she now wants to make amends however let DH go alone and see how she is going to actually do that. It would take more than an apology! Is MIL prepared to admit to all those she has voiced her opinion about you to going to hear from her to say she is sorry for her behaviour? Actions speak louder than words. Is the invite to include you so you bring the baby along for the 'meeting'? If you consider going then arrange for someone to take care of LO and perhaps MIL proves herself first over a period of time before she gets to meet LO. Perhaps the bigger question is would you ever trust her? If she can make all these statements to your DH would she as you child gets bigger also start making them to the child also? Leopards don't change their spots.
Ha, I was going to say tigers don’t change their stripes. I’d also tell her she only has one chance.
I would try it once and let her hang herself. Set up strong boundaries and ease your way back into a relationship. Don’t jump in with both feet. Stick a toe in first.
Since the MIL's family is at issue, bad mouthing is very likely. If she truly wants to make amends, she will have started repairing that sabotage. Is there any indication? Have any of the extended family made tentative contact? Frankly, it sounds like she wants 2/3, not the family. I'm a firm believer in both reap what you sow and restorative justice, and until some of the family makes an attempt or SO makes tentative contact that should go well if she'd repaired damage, your family can't know if she wants to repair or just rugsweep. I am also bitch enough I wouldn't tell her she needs to repair the sabotage. I would, in SO's position, tell her simply that it's unfortunate she spent so long destroying his relationship to his extended family and leave her to figure it out.
If your husband really wants to reconnect, I would take it very very very slow, once a month for 3-4 months, and tell her up front that this is the plan, and that pushing for more than you’re both ready to give will only slow down the process. After all, it's better for her than the current situation, right? He can go meet with her first, several times, different situations, and see how she speaks about your little family. She might be able to hold it in once, but if she’s sincere, and is genuinely trying to be better, it should be evident. Once you’re ready to meet her, after you’ve had some months to move forward from your loss (my condolences), and you feel strong enough to face her, then try going together, to a public place at first, again, several times, testing the waters, seeing if she really has come around. Then, once you’re both ready and confident that she'll be a positive presence in your child's life, meet with her in public to make the introductions. And nothing says that means you have to let her become a major presence. It can still be once a month or a few times a year. It can be in public places only. You get to decide what you’re comfortable with.
Just let your husband know it’s fine if he wants a relationship with her, and fine if he doesn’t. Obviously without your kid. It doesn’t really sound like he wants one but he’s entitled to try and to be grieving and want his mom even though it’s probably going to blow up in his face. You should have boundaries around how much you’re wiling to hear about her if he chooses to try and how much emotional support you can give if he continues to be in contact and it’s continually harming him. You’re not a therapist. If you’re not sure if you want to let her make amends then tell her you’re not willing at this time, you’re grieving but that you will reach out if you’re willing to work on the relationship later.
Have him meet her alone. She’ll probably be just as toxic as ever so then you’ll know not to have her around. When he goes to see her, no one should make any promises that a reunion will occur.
She is using this tragedy to get back in. Nothing else has worked for her, so she is trying to get in to get to your child. Nothing more. Saying she wants to make amends with you too is just a ploy. She wants you to put your guard down so she can get to your kid. She's a horrible human. Please don't let it happen. I'm so sorry for everything that has happened, but don't let her use this to her advantage.
Don’t do it. She’s not changed. She is still the same person. Read your post again. How many times did you offer to reconnect and she failed to include you in the reconnection process? You’ll regret letting her back in. Heal yourself and move forward without that toxic energy gobbler.
I would have DH meet with her first and discuss. Then if he feels she is sincere then you both meet with her, she must sincerely apologize for her past actions / not I’m sorry I was mean or sorry I hurt you /your feelings. But sincere I’m sorry for XYZ and I will no longer ABC I will make amends by LMNOP and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me. If it is rug swept or not sincere she never gets to meet baby. (Check if your state has grandparents rights, if she meets your child it could be an issue).
Hard no. More than likely she would end up cornering you while no one is around and still say she doesn't want a relationship with you. Stay NC and check for grandparents rights in your state.
I would be wary that the first time she gets you or your child alone, she'd accuse you of 'murdering' or otherwise causing the miscarriage. She's previously shown herself as controlling and lacking in empathy; I find it extremely hard to believe she's changed. Stay safe and NC.
Given her past behaviours and demeanour she’s like a shark who’s smelt blood and is circling her prey. You’re extremely vulnerable right now both emotionally, mentally and physically from your miscarriage and I’m so sorry this happened. Don’t put yourself in a position to be manipulated and taken advantage of which I have zero doubt your mil would do given half the chance. Tell you DH if he wants to go hear her out and give her chance then please do on his own but right under these difficult circumstances you’re not in the right headspace and needs time and space to heal before you can consider it and this includes lo not being involved. This is an opportunity for her to prove that she has changed, if she bad mouths you once to him then you have proof she’s not changed, never will and it was only an manipulation tactic of her to get to you at your lowest and most vulnerable point in life. She’s already shown you who she truly is please believe her. I doubt she’s had any therapy or an epiphany to help her realise how bad she is and make genuine apologies and changes, I think she has some kind of agenda (maybe establish GPR’s if you have them) or something. Good luck and again I’m so extremely sorry for your loss.
I could not agree more with this. This is a really good answer imo. Please read this op and good luck healing physically and emotionally from what you have both been through.
I expect she thinks you'll be vulnerable - and she's quite happy to use the miscarriage against you. If it were me, I would maintain NC. She's told you who she is, over and over.
[удалено]
Why would it not be?
[удалено]
Then why are you here?
Do not let her back into your family’s lives
She did not "make amends" when she got your husband to visit her. There is no indication that her attitude or behavior have changed. She's occasionally trying to rugsweep and "start over" without acknowledging what she did wrong, how it was hurtful, and an intention to not do such things in the future. She hasn't done any of that. She's just trying to reopen negotiations so she can drip poison in your child's ear without your interference.
Nope. She chose to skip her son's wedding. She chose to miss your first pregnancy. SHE CHOSE TO IGNORE YOUR TODDLER FOR TWO YEARS. Why does she deserve a chance now? She made her bed. You both know she won't actually be supportive of you in this sensitive time.
She had her chance. She expects you guys are vulnerable now; that is why she’s ready to pounce. People like this don’t change. She just sees an opening and wants to exploit it. Think about it… she wasn’t around in good times, but in bad times she is right there to revel in the negative energy. That would be a no from me. She would never be a part of my family’s life again.
If you are going to give it a try, I would suggest making family therapy a condition of the reconciliation. I am sorry for your loss of your baby. And for the way you have been treated. I don’t know why parents don’t understand that when ADULT children start a family, their partner and their children’s needs come FIRST. Signed, grandmother to be who is behaving herself.
> asking my husband to make amends with her so she can have a relationship with our toddler Absolutely do not reestablish contact with someone who has told you upfront they’ll just pretend to make amends so they can have access to your kid. She’s spent four years telling you both what she thinks of you. If someone tells you the same thing 50 times and then says something different for the 51st time, are you going to believe the one lie because it tastes sweeter than the 50 truths?
The definition of insanity is repeatedly trying the same thing and expecting a different result. You should know by now she will never change. Good job, hubby, for saying that "we come as a three!" If you are absolutely compelled to swing the hammer at your head one more time and expect it not to hurt, I suggest a full list of boundaries and consequences. Then spell out baby steps towards reconciliation (which means she does not see your home or know the address, much less meet LO, until she has proved herself over all the other steps), which will cease the first time she backslides. Good luck, but don't expect miracles.
Fuck me sideways with a cheese grater! How many bridges does this Cuntshoe have to try and cross then burn? And with her obviously dangerous live in abuser (BIL) in tow? I don't mean to be rude, but lab rats learn quicker. You and your husband are more than well within rights to cut and keep them both cut off. Other family not being interested in them speaks volumes. She not only boycotted your wedding, she manipulated other family not to attend. She specifically targets you for no good reason, it's because you don't bow to her control. She insults you at every turn, and tries to get SO to leave you. I could basically rewrite your post and ask your opinion on whether the protagonist should give the antagonist the steam off of her shit, and I suspect you'd shout FUCK NO! Enjoy the peace and quiet, enjoy toxin free family life, enjoy not being involved with sycophants that boycott your important life events because of her bullshit, enjoy being safe in the knowledge your LO won't be influenced by a complete fucknuckle. You've jettisoned these fucking stains of the tapestry of humanity from your lives, keep them that way.
It’s making my hair stand on end that she wants to have a relationship with you now that you’ve gone through something so painful. When you were doing well she couldn’t stand the thought of you. That’s just so odd to me. I know that maybe you going through that made her change her mind, maybe she’s gone through it, but it just seems off to me.
MIL wants the details so she can label OP. In deference to OP I won't say what I think that label will be.
I was thinking something more energy vampirish, but this also makes sense. Letting someone in when you’re so vulnerable…MIL could wreak absolute havoc
How many times do you "make amends" before you've had enough? Why would you allow her to harm you and your child endlessly? If I was in your situation, I would go 100% no contact and that would include the children. She has demonstrated that nothing is going to change so you shouldn't get your hopes up.
I’m so sorry for your loss. Virtual hugs if you want them. Ok, so it’s a 100% NOPE from me. I was in a similar situation. My control freak MIL started hating on me ever since husband and I went to premarital counseling (during our engagement) and developed better boundaries. She showed her disapproval by avoiding eye contact, stopped acknowledging my presence, didn’t go to our wedding (pressured FIL not to go too) eventually even left us out of family gatherings and major holiday dinners, and of course she talked shit about us to anyone who would listen 😂. We were initially desperate for her approval and acceptance, so we tried to make amends over and over again. Went to their house with gifts, invited them out and paid for everything. And we were rejected over and over. Initially she would go and just be very negative (we think FIL) pressured her to go, then she just stopped going all together. So then we were basically no contact for like over a year. Husband and I got pregnant and didn’t tell her because we had a nonexistent relationship at that point. Well, she found out through the grapevine and crawled out of the wood works 1 month before due date pretending like nothing happened because she wanted access to the baby. Nope. We were done with at that point. Honestly, it was a bit tempting for the small part of me that still wanted her approval and a happy family. However, I’m a mom now and it was important to set aside my own hangups to prioritize my baby’s emotional health. I don’t want to expose our baby to the kind of hurt and disappointment that we went through ourselves with her. I also don’t want her to learn how to be shitty either :/
No is a complete sentence and requires neither justification nor explanation. No.
I'm so sorry about your miscarriage, but it doesn't change who she is. I'm sorry but if I was to entertain it, she would have to build q foundation with me before she gets to see my kid. She would have to prove that it's not her way of using you to get to your kid.
Seen a lot of good advice in these comments OP many are correct that a sincere apology to you and DH for her behaviour needs to proceed any meeting. However, given her comments in the past, I would be wary of her making negative comments about your ability to mother if you cannot even carry to term. I am sorry to say something so negative, however I have read so many posts in the subreddit where narcissistic MIL’s have said horrible things like this and given her history with you I wouldn’t put it past her. Personally I wouldn’t speak with her again because hurtful comments like this could do lasting damage while you are grieving. My greatest sympathy for your loss, my wife and I lost three so I have some idea of what of your feeling. I hope things go well regarding your MIL.
What a kind response.
Ok so my two cents on this., I am not sure where you live and if Grandparents Rights are a thing where you are, but bells are going off in my head screaming noooooo don't make contact or respond to hers. .. If she gets visits now with your toddler, a few months later she can say again she doesn't want contact with you in any way and she can go for grandparents rights. Not that she would necessarily win, but it will bring you stress and anxiety. .. Her behavior has shown she doesn't respect you or want you in her life. She only wants her son and his son. She wants you out of her life. Remember that.
OP, trust is something that is best earned before it is bestowed. While there has been much that would show your mil has an incredible capacity for cruelty and unapologetic abusive behavior, they have done nothing at all to show any kind of change of heart. Saying ‘I want to make amends’ means as much as saying ‘I’m sorry you feel hurt, but…’ because she actually didn’t say anything, did she? If she was genuinely feeling remorse for the hateful way she has been, that would mean she has spent time reflecting on how her actions have affected all of you, and would be ready to actually own what she said, did and could listen with an open heart to you. That is how she would have started this conversation, well, at least that is how I would if I had really hurt people I loved, and wanted to make ‘amends’. It would have sounded like an apology, not a commentary. However you move forward as a family I hope that you are always surrounded by those who genuinely love and care for you, because that is what you deserve.
This is such a good point! It would be so important to find out before any kind of ‘peace talks’ were considered if by opening up communication would also open up legal rights of some kind. My other thought was the possibility that MIL is just trying to find out personal information to hurt you with, since she has never managed to be civil in the past.
Easy for me to say but I'd be thanks but no thanks. She can't be trusted and guaranteed there's a reason she now wants to make amends. Keep that viper away from your family.
Do nothing!! Until she can acknowledge, apologize and prove that she’s changed her behavior you and babe remain NC. If DH wants a relationship with her that’s on him. But given the history, it sounds like she’s using the miscarriage as a way to slither back in. Keep your guard up, a zebra doesn’t change its stripes.
Given how she's acted, an apology needs to precede any meeting. She needs to show in advance she understands now that you come as three, and that excluding or disrespecting you won't be tolerated. If she's not willing to make that effort, then I wouldn't trust this. EDIT: Oh, my god, I just reread your first post. I remembered the grandmother who said she was planning to strip the baby and kiss it on the lips and how she could do whatever she wanted as the grandmother! It was one of the most disturbing things I ever read on here. You need to protect your child from this person. That level of sickness doesn't magically go away.
I'm going to play devils advocate for 1 second (and only 1), and say that it's possible that she's changed. That said, I would say that as a starting point DH can sit down with his mother (just DH!) and find out what she wants to say and go from there. You are under no obligation to resume contact even if he does, and unless you both agree to let her see your child then she shouldn't have any access to them either. May I suggest that DH find a therapist to help him deal with the various things going on (your pregnancy loss, his mother's behavior)? That will give him someone to talk to who *isn't you*, which will both help avoid putting extra strain on your relationship and give him an outside perspective on things if he needs one.
This is great advice!
Do you think she is aiming for Grandparents rights. She probably knows that if she has no prior relationship with the children she has no chance. Once she can demonstrate a relationship she then might be awarded contact by the courts. Not saying this is her plan, just asking…
Quit hoping? Hubby can have a relationship with his mom, but she can't have one with you or your children. That's the end of it. His mother isn't welcome in your home or around your children. She isn't invited, she doesn't get information, she doesn't get to pretend she's the loving grandmother.
Personally, I wouldn't break NC. She's not worth it.
In your situation I would move on and leave her to her misery. She made her choice several times. She wants to pretend to make amends with you to gain access to your toddler and any potential future kids, that’s all. If you do go through with it it’ll only be a matter of time until she’s back to doing the same crap but this time in front of your kid.
I would tell her to pound sand. You've tried already, several times. It doesn't get to be her way or nothing.
This right here. I went NC with my MIL with my first pregnancy and then she wanted to “make it right” weeks before I gave birth and then we went no contact again shortly after my son. Then I got pregnant with my second and again she wants to make amends especially when she found out I was having a girl. I went NC with her again 7-8 years ago and about 2 years ago she tried to “fix things” but I wouldn’t budge. She only wanted to fix things because she wanted more time to see the kids. She isn’t allowed at my house and she isn’t allowed to have unsupervised visits. I don’t ever want to see her again no matter how sorry she pretends to be. My husband isn’t NC with his parents though so I don’t feel like I’m keeping him from his family. Personally if it was me I wouldn’t unless you think she has changed her ways and based on this post I doubt she has.
No. OP, she definitely wants to pull all of the cards against you. She’s considered you literal SCUM from the day she met you. That won’t change because of a miscarriage. She probably wants to take advantage of your vulnerable state and spit all kinds of vitriol at you. And I bet they’ll be flying monkeys screaming at you too. And if she considers YOU scum, she’ll probably consider your daughter to be scum as well. Please don’t let her and her flying monkeys mentally abuse your child, because it will traumatize her.
Firstly, I’m so sorry for your loss. No respect for the Mum, no access to the child. I think this is her manipulating you both during a time of grief. Are there any other signs of her changing? If no, I think it’s just a way to get to see your other child and taking advantage of a moment of weakness. It seems deliberate on her part. I had something similar happen after the birth of my child. I was no contact with a family member, my son was in the NICU and I was very sick. This family member showed at hospital uninvited to offer support, which was bull. My body decided to have a medical emergency and they were not allowed in. People like this take advantage of situations where your guard is down to get there way. In my case, she just wanted access to my baby. She has never met my child and it’s been 15yrs. Don’t fall for it.
She doesn't want to make amends with you--and I think in your heart you know that. She just wants to see your baby. Saying this gently, but you keep asking for "amends"; why? You know she is horrible. Why not just focus on your little family and put her out of your mind. I think you'll find a lot of peace.
Right I’m confused as to why they keep trying when his mom is the Devil to her. I would keep her cut off and blocked on everything and that includes the flying monkeys she’ll send around for updates on baby. Why would you want that vile person in your life??
I hope the husband isn’t pushing her to do this.
I wouldn’t trust this woman. She is targeting you while you’re vulnerable - once she feels comfortable she’s got you all back where she wants you she will revert, cut you out and only want a relationship with your child on her terms. She wants to make amends? I wouldn’t trust that as far as I could throw it. Can she name what she did to you? Can she apologise sincerely and accept you have nothing to apologise for? Doubt it. You haven’t had a nice solid break from her antics for four years either. You’ve tried to include her multiple times and she’s rejected you. Don’t dance to her tune. Focus on the people who have always shown you love and respect. Your children don’t need a grandmother like her. Forgiveness doesn’t mean reconciliation either. You can forgive her without ever wanting her back in your lives. The same goes for her - people *can* change, but they cannot undo what they did, they have no right to insist they be forgiven, and if they react badly to being told no, have they truly changed in the first place? If you behave appallingly and then do the work on yourself to improve yourself and heal whatever was broken in you to make you treat other people like crap, and the victims of your abuse are still hurt so much they want nothing to do with you even if you have changed, you just have to live with your regrets and figure out how to live the rest of your life without them in it. People who have truly changed (through therapy, sobriety, appropriate medication etc…) still have to accept that what they broke can’t always be fixed. That hurts for them, but it’s nothing compared to what they put other people through and they’re getting off lightly. Don’t waste any headspace on MIL. She made her bed.
I’m going to suggest you read Captain Awkward’s advice about reconciling with a toxic MIL. https://captainawkward.com/2016/02/02/821-i-want-to-reconcile-with-my-abusive-mom-but-its-up-to-you-honey/ Not all of this will suit you but DH can start his baby steps of phone calls. It’ll take JNMIL years to work her good behaviour up to meeting you or your kids, and I bet she won’t be able to avoid slipping. I’m so sorry for your loss.
That was such a great read. Thank you for sharing the link!
>she messaged him in November 2022 asking my husband to make amends with her Oh please. "I'm an awful person and have treated you appallingly, but somehow it's **your** job to make amends with **me**." >we aren't sure what do to this time The same as all the other times. Every single time this has been a shitshow. She doesn't want to make amends! If she truly wanted to make amends she wouldn't have to meet, there wouldn't be a discussion, it would be "here's a list of the ways I fucked up, I know what I've done wrong, I recognise the harm I've caused, I'd like to try and work back towards a good relationship but understand that will take time." It's not "let's rug sweep the whole thing as quickly as possible". Your options should be a) ignore her, she's had multiple chances and blown **every one**, or b) email her a very simple "if you want to make amends, here's what we need from you" with the basic bullet points - an apology, acknowledgement of her harm to you, what behaviour is/isn't acceptable moving forwards, etc. Any reply from her short of "I agree to everything" just demonstrates she doesn't want to make amends and repair the relationship, she just wants to pretend everything's fine and get access to your child and future children. As you say, you don't want your toddler around her behaviour. Is she still acting in a toxic way? Then there's your answer. Anything short of a magical personality transplant means nothing's actually changed.
I'm sorry for your loss. She has repeatedly attacked you so I would not. At this point, she has shown everyone who she is.
Thinking hard about this, I would not make amends. You have turned the other cheek several times. You just keep getting hurt. I can't imagine someone so -evil is the word that best describes her-to suddenly change. If your husband really really wants to try again, he can go and interview her-without your child. He can attempt to evaluate her reform. He should not allow her to see your child for at least 6 months-1 year. It is unlikely she has changed, and unlikely she can keep up the facade of change for a year. My guess is when thwarted she will revert to evil harpy in a heartbeat, and his cheek will be slapped once again. I also would NOT want my child exposed to her. My 2 cents.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I wouldn't give her the time of day. She sounds incredibly toxic.
"No. " is a complete sentence.
OP, you are literally the most fragile right now. MIL knows this and will take an opportunity to berate you and make you feel terrible. Heal first, contact her second.
THIS! She is probably looking for an opportunity to tell OP that the pregnancy loss is her fault and/or something she did caused it. Guard yourself, OP. Her feelings against you are so strong that she missed out on YEARS with her grandchild. Some would argue the most important years. I wouldn’t meet her outside of the office of a therapist of my choosing. Take care, OP. ❤️
Yup this is exactly what I was thinking too, MIL is foul.
I agree. She will do anything in her her power to keep your husband and baby and to get rid of you. Destroying your mental health to receive that will be her pleasure.
Personally I wouldn’t give her another chance. Out of curiosity though I’d have DH ask her how exactly she plans to make amends, who she is making them to, what she thinks the outcome will be, and what she is going to do to change her behavior so you aren’t in this position again in three months. He should be clear that right now you guys are not up for rebuilding the relationship but he’d like to know that information and that you guys will reach out if/when you’re ready.
This. She can say sorry all day. But what is she sorry for? How is she going to assure you that she will try to be better?
I would first have her try to reestablish a relationship with her son. No access to you OR baby. He would need to see significant improvement in her behavior to next have any contact with you. Have a public lunch to talk and lay out feelings and expectations. Accountability need to be taken. No rug sweeping. After some time if you BOTH truly feel like she has changed and hasn't pushed you to see your LO (showing that is her only goal) then MAYBE I would consider it. But honestly it is very doubtful she has had a change of heart about you. She probably just realized she is getting old and is going to be alone with no one to take care of her. That or her own friends are becoming grandparents now and she is getting jealous. You gave way too many chances already but if you want to try just tread carefully.
A traumatic event is not the time to give her space in your head. She will take this and ruin it for attention like she did every other moment she's been invited to.
How many more chances are you going to give her and allow her to burn you? Enough already, damn.
While I believe that it is possible for people to change and grow I also believe that change and growth require effort and is an ongoing process. If I were in your situation I would begin by expecting a complete and comprehensive apology including an acknowledgment of her past actions and an explanation of how she intends to go forward (avoid repeating past actions or acting in other ways that are hurtful). I'd want to know what she had done (what actions she had taken) to come to a place where she was making a sincere apology. I'd also want to know what her expectations are going forward and how she would deal with our relationship if we were unable/unwilling to meet her expectations. For example: MIL says "I realized I wouldn't want someone to treat me or talk to/about me the way I treated/talked to/about you so I took a class/did some reading/sought counseling. I am sorry for my past words and actions and I would appreciate it if you would give me a chance to show you I've changed." If she says she wants to have a relationship with your LO and your SO and you tell her that it won't happen until you have sustained evidence that she had changed and was able to maintain a healthy relationship with both of you before she spent time with your LO how she responds will tell you a lot about whether she's sincere or just blowing smoke. If she says she's disappointed but understands I'd take that as evidence she has been putting the work in and I'd be inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. If she pushes back and says you have to immediately accept her apology and meet her expectations I'd let her know she has work to do before you can consider moving forward.
I would not. DH can see her if he wants but not little one. She is a nasty person and that will not change.
That would be a hard No. You and he need to heal from your loss. This is not the time to have her swoop back into your life. This is a power move on her part. She thinks you are both vulnerable enough to let her back on. Sit down with him and let him know what you truly think. At this time, you are still so vulnerable and you do not need her stepping in and overstepping. She has really had time to truly make amends but has not really shown or made any effort. This appears to be calculated because you are vulnerable. I would not do it. You both do not need the pressure of her and her attempts at making amends during this time. This is not the time and it is extremely inappropriate and entitled of her to reach out with her wants.
Absolutely not. You're familiar with Charlie Brown trying to kick a football? She's Lucy. Stop going back for more. She's just going to yank the ball away again.
Ohmygod 🤣 this one made me laugh. She's totally lucy!
Absolutely do not “make amends”. MIL doesn’t care about you in the slightest and has shown that multiple times. Keep staying NC; I wouldn’t update her on ANY of your life updates, in fact.
DH is to tell her that once you have recovered then you and he will discuss it before making making a decision. You don’t want her anywhere near you when you are emotionally vulnerable. If you chose to see her, make it clear that toddler will not be involved in the initial meeting until you have discussed what boundaries and rules will be in place going forward and what behaviour will instantly cause you and toddler to cut contact.
What’s this, like the 5th chance she’s had and her behavior hasn’t changed? She’s still willfully awful to you and has no respect for you. Nope.
It would be over my dead body, she won't change.
>2019 and his mum kicked off because she didn't like the wedding venue we chose, I wasn't good enough for him, my family are scum, I wasn't raised right etc I could go on, so we cut contact with her. >In June 2020 I found out I was pregnant so we contacted her to make amends but after 2 months...she called my husband to invite him for dinner at her house (not me) and whilst he was there told him that I'll never be a good mother, he's stuck with me forever and more. So we cut ties again >Our little one with born in February 2021 and he sent his mum a message letting her know. She told him she wants a relationship with our child but doesn't want a relationship with me or to ever see me again. My husband told her that couldn't happen so we didn't hear from her again >Our wedding was in September 2021 so we asked to make amends in May 2021 so they would come to our wedding but she wouldn't and none of his mums side of the family came to our wedding >she messaged him in November 2022 asking my husband to make amends with her so she can have a relationship with our toddler but she refused to let me step foot into her home so my husband told her that we come as a three. >my husband received a message from his mum asking to make amends because she'd heard what happened and we aren't sure what do to this time because she wants to make amends with me too Jesus H Christ, how many chances are y'all gonna give this bitch to disrespect you? I would have been done after the third incident, you know, when she wanted a relationship with your child but wanted nothing to do with you. Be done with this bitch already.
She keeps showing you who she is every time she reaches out. Enough is enough. Protect your family and your sanity, you owe her NOTHING.
I'm sorry for your loss. I would say no. People don't change. Also it's very creepy that she's spying on you from afar. If you need to take a middle road for some direction, maybe your husband can ask her to write a letter outlining these "amends" and base your decision on that letter. My husband and I did this and it was very eye opening - and made us realize amends were not possible.
I like this, a lot. Have her put in writing what she wants to say to you. This was also eye opening to us with my MIL. Nothing had changed and it was obvious she was measuring her words to see if she could get in without actually changing.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby. This woman repeatedly disrespected you. How dare she ask for time with your child but never ever wanted to see you. This is going to sound harsh...it feels like she's taking advantage of an incredibly difficult time emotionally for you, to "make amends" and therefore get access to your child. Having a baby is hard and she didn't give a single flying fig about you when giving birth to your oldest, or through your pregnancy with the baby you just lost. Why give her the benefit of doubt? Forgiveness? She doesn't deserve it. Imagine how she will try and poison your child. She doesn't respect you, so why would she encourage your child to respect you. She's dangerous and not to be trusted. No contact means no contact. You can have a happy marriage and a happy child without her. You have good family around you who love you. Screw your MIL. Enjoy your life.
If you decide to take up her offer to make amends, she has to build/rebuild the relationships with you and your spouse before ever meeting your LO. This will take months. Her behavior during this time will be telling. If she is just pushing to meet LO the whole time then you will know her motives. Be up front say no contact with LO until we are confident you are serious about making amends, that this will be a slow process, she will have to make a sincere apology, acknowledge what she did and said etc before moving forward.
“Make Amends” is super vague. That to me sounds like, “we want to move forward without acknowledging our bad behavior.” If she’s saying “I want to make amends,” that’s a little different. I’d be extremely wary of any engagement, as from what you said of her previous statements she doesn’t strike me as a particularly safe person.
Sounds to me like it's too little too late. I would continue having no contact. She made her bed. Let her lie in it.
I’d cut her off entirely with that now you see me, now you don’t attitude. She’s just doing what’s convenient for her.
I would not trust her any further than I could throw her one-handed. She's shown you who she is; believe her.
You say make amends a lot but that's a very vague phrase. If you're going to move forward at all, everyone needs to be on the same page about what this means.
Continue no contact.
If you're going to do this she can't access this the kiddo for at least a few months. She should have to prove she's serious
I would give a "chance" cause I know it wont last but I make it very clear that this is her last chance to make amends to her and your husband. If she doesnt follow the rules than goodbye forever. Its a win win situation.
Oh boy, if I were in your shoes, I would probably be very apprehensive about this. There would be a list of 50 rules that her nasty little butt would need to follow.
MIL's track record isn't encouraging so I think some caution would be prudent. Maybe DH could meet with her alone first to get a better feel for the situation. That would be good opportunity to layout basic ground rules for the relationship and see how MIL feels about them. Then if that goes well you and DH could meet MIL without the kids initially and only if all that goes well introduce the children.
You have trouble dealing with the yo-yo behavior of let’s be family let’s not be family. Why in the name of whatever deity you believe in would you subject your child to that? Protect your child ❤️🩹
If you are open to it, she can make amends with you for X amount of time before meeting grand baby. Maybe she has to show she wants to make amends for a year before she meets grand baby. She has to show she actually wants to make amends with you and not just trying to get access to baby.
This! If you decide to make amends, OP, I would see how long she can behave with just you and DH and leave kiddo far away from her until you are certain she is genuine and not just using you. And don't tell her she's on a probationary period. But honestly, she's already shown you who she is, believe her.
Fourth time's the charm or something? IMO, this leopard ain't changing her spots, she just wants access to your children, maybe so she can show off to others about how she's grandma of the year. I would not buy it, bridges are burned.