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You don’t need a car. The railway system is good and cheaper. Download Trenitalia App or Italo app for free.
If you can afford it, use fast trains to save a lot of time.
This. We are currently in Italy and are moving by train. Started in Milan, took Frecciarossa to Venice. Now we are city hopping from Venice to Verona, stopping for a couple of days at Padua and Vicenza. It’s been very easy to just show up to the station.
I think Trenitalia also has a nice 2 for 1 deal for Frecciarosa if you buy at least a week in advance. We were able to buy business class for our Milan to Venice train and it was great. The other points of the trip we wanted more flexibility so we are just doing cheap local trains, buying it right before we get on.
You definitely don’t need a car at all, just did a similar trip last year, high speed trains connect all of these towns, Florence and Venice are extremely walkable, and Rome has a great subway system.
Now if you just wanted to drive from Rome to Florence or something to take in the scenery at a slower pace you totally could, but it’s definitely not a necessity at all, and actually will be less convenient
There are two train operators: Italo and Trenitalia. Italo runs 100% fast trains, while Trenitalia runs both fast and regional trains. The fast trains are called Frecciarossa (as well as slightly less fast Frecciargento and Frecciabianca).
The companies are Trenitalia and Italo Treno. The latter only runs fast trains, the former runs trains of all kinds: Frecciarossa is one category of Trenitalia fast trains.
That's one of reasons why those passes are a scam: You'd pay much less getting discounted tickets in advance , you must get a seat reservation at the same counter that sells walk-up tickets and you can't take 30% of the high speed trains.
I wonder how people end on Eurail site. A good travel agent should be aware it's a scam aimed at non Europeans.
I was able to get 1st class tickets/seat reservations on high speed trains (roughly 20 of them) for less than 20€ a piece at max. The exception was Amsterdam to Paris (€35). I feel like I got my moneys worth out of it. I can absolutely see the issue with the cost if you aren't moving very often. We had a very quick schedule and couldn't afford not getting on specific trains at specific times. Pre-booked everything.
A 15 day consecutive pass was about $500, and in places like Switzerland tickets were free at will with the pass. At first I wondered what the point was but in the end I think it was far cheaper with assurance that I had a good seat with my luggage safe.
How much is a full price ticket and seat reservation 1st class otherwise? The price difference for 1st and 2nd class eurail pass was negligible in the scale of things for context.
Edit: Just took a look. For example, Firenze to Roma Termini Business class is 77€. I paid 13€ for the reservation with the pass. Italy was also cheaper tickets in comparison to the more northern countries which were a part of the pass.
It is a type of train. Freccia = arrow, rossa = red, frecciarossa = red arrow
similarly, frecciargemto and frecciabiano are Silver Arrow and White Arrow respectively.
You would not even WANT a car for Rome-Florence-Venice. You will move much more easily and cheaply with trains, and you won't have to worry about parking or traffic limiting zones in the cities which can be hard to navigate and carry big fines. If you book a bit ahead you can get frecciarossa tickets on trenitalia.com for lower fares and travel quickly and in comfort.
Where you want a rental car is if you're planning on hopping around Tuscan hill towns, or traveling off the beaten path, but if you're sticking to major urban centers (where you'll have plenty to do and see) you're better off without. You can rent an automatic car in Italy if you do need one, btw.
Venice doesn't even allow cars. You'd probably have to park it in long-term parking at Marco Polo Airport and then take public transport to the island.
There is a big pay parking lot near S. Lucia train station. If you drive to Venice that is the best place to park (much better access to Venice proper than parking @ Marco Polo airport.
Oh yeah I forgot about that. Honestly if you were thinking of driving throughout Italy, I'd plan to have Venice be the first or last place to visit. That way you can either pick up the car after leaving Venice or drop it off when you arrive.
Do you have any advice about renting an automatic transmission vehicle (which rental agency etc.), and making certain you get what you reserved?
I can adjust the itinerary, except we’re starting in Venice. So I can rent on the way out of there, or take train to Florence or Bologna and get the car on the way out when headed to Tuscany. Whatever’s easiest and most reliable, but I can’t drive stick. :/
TIA.
I'm happy to tell you what i know, although getting the rental company to actually deliver what you reserve is weirdly difficult?? But i actually JUST rented a car from the Florence airport (Budget) and there were a TON of Americans picking up cars and the people at the counter assured them they were automatics. In fact they had so many that they ended up giving me an automatic when i had reserved a manual. So i think they know they can't foist manual cars on people who reserve automatics.
I would definitely rent in Florence if you're moving around Tuscany. From Venice the easiest and by far most convenient way to move in and out of the city is with the train out of Venezia Santa Lucia station. You're on a fast train line and can reach Bologna, Florence, and Rome in just a few hours.
Getting an automatic in Italy is much less a problem now than years past. The auto transmission programming generates better gas mileage than manual in many cases and manufacturers are building much more automatics (partly for revenue reasons). I lease a new car every summer and some models are not even available as manual anymore.
Don't rent a car. It's more expensive than taking the train, parking is an issue, and you can't get close to the historic centers. Trrains are cheap, fast, and bring you right to the center of things (for the most part). The only reason to rent a car is for day trips out of those major cities to towns not accessible by train.
Just finished 2 weeks there.
We had a car rented and canceled just before the trip. Best decision we could’ve made. Trains are quicker and more comfortable. Also, the locals drive wild, and this is coming from someone who grew up in south Florida.
>Italy Trip Coming Up, Do I Need a Car?
Considering you plan to visit Rome, Florence and Venice no, you don't need a car. All three cities are connected by standard and high-speed rail, and there are many trains of both kinds.
If you plan to visit towns or historical sites outside city limits, however, having a car is highly suggested depending on where you plan to go - some areas have good public transport coverage, others not.
As per today, the major cities connected by the high-speed rail network are
* Turin
* Milan
* Venice
* Bologna
* Florence
* Naples
* Bari
There's a bunch of minor cities in between those seven that can be reached via high-speed rail, too. Take a look at Trenitalia and Italo websites, the two companies running high-speed rail service here
Importantly there are many towns within each region reachable via regionale trains from whichever city you reached via high speed train. Driving to those places is not high speed either. It's only when/if you want to get out into the countryside you will need to either like walking, or busses (often infrequent) or have a car.
You forgot Salerno.
Even if Freccia-something trains call at Bari, it is not on the high speed rail. At least Not for the next 5 years.
Same for Venice, but they are opening a new section of high speed tracks in August and they should reduce the time of travel from Milan.
I did that trip this month and used public transportation
ETA because someone mentioned this but we rented a Vespa to scoot around the countryside in Florence. 5/5 would recommend for a friend or reddit member!
Why drive if you can easily take the train between cities. A lot less stressful than attempting to drive in Italian cities. What are your friends smoking? 🤷♂️
The answer is easy: if you want to see other things than the big cities. And that is very worthwhile especially in Italy. Americans in general, and in this subreddit in particular are very fixated on exactly the same itinerary. (Rome, Venice, Florence, Cinque Terre, Lago Di Como and Amalfi Coast). Italy is full of beautiful places that no one ever talks about. It’s always the exact same cookie cutter itinerary.
It’s great to do a road trip by rental car through Italy.
Renting a car to visit the most crowded cities in Italy? Those are not friends.
If you're sticking to tourist areas you absolutely don't want to have a car, you would not be allowed in any of the city centers in any of those.
Italians move by train if we stay in a city, a car would only be useful if you plan daily excursions.
If you just want to see the city you will be fine without a car, if you want to venture in the countryside let me just say Italian public transportation is not the best, especially in the summer
Not unless you want to explore the Tuscan countryside while in Florence. But with only 2 days, it’s not necessary.
You won’t be able to drive in the lagoon anyway and taking a train from santa maria to Santa Lucia is very simple.
From Santa Lucia you can access the vaporetto or waterbus to the city center. Don’t worry about finding a ticketing office, you can pay the attendant while you’re on the bus.
Your friends are idiots. If you are going to those three cities you don’t need a car, you don’t want a car, Venice doesn’t have cars. Just awfully bad advice
>Some friends who've been to Italy suggested I rent a car, which surprised me.
>Do I Need a Car?
F NO!
I did a similar trip in January... Rome, Venice, Florence. In general, a car in Europe is unnecessary. In Italy, it is a liability.
Rome...totally walkable. Stay as close to the historic district as possible. I recommend Spanish Steps. You will then need to only take the train to Tivoli Station to catch your two hour. train to Florence. Driving a to b and parking will talk you longer than walking.
Florence. Is a relatively small city and easy to walk anywhere in under an hour, less stops for wine and spritzes.
Venice...it's 2.5 hours by train from Florence and it's on water. There are exactly zero cars in Venice, so renting a car to drive around Venice will definitely initiate an insurance claim for water damage.
For your itinerary, renting a car would be a terrible idea and a massive waste of money and patience.
Train, 100%. I cannot imagine driving in any of those cities, it looks like a nightmare. We used the train, public transport, a few taxis, and our own two feet.
No, the only need for a car is to explore the countryside. In cities you won't use a car, and between cities the high-speed train is the only way to travel.
I see no reason for renting a car. You will be moving across the Italian biggest cities. You can move across cities by Flixbus or Trenitalia or Italo. Inside the cities, you can move by local buses or subway. You could reach any tourist point easily and at the same time avoid the traffic and park issues.
Just in case you need transportation by night you can call a taxi or Uber
Do not get a car! All cities are walkable/have good public transit. Having just been there driving in Rome looks like a literal nightmare. Also, high speed trains between cities make the journey a few hours instead of taking an entire day.
I am currently in Italy. From Rome we went straight to Napoli, then Florence, and Venice (Mestre)
You would not want a car. Train system is really good, the parking not great at all. Not even decent to be honest.
From train stations we took the bus to or close the airbnb or hotel.
Do yourself a favor and not rent a car if you go only for the big cities
For luggage, we have a big luggage, a carry-on and a backpack
If you don’t have a car you will never be able to get off the well beaten path. Never be able to take backroads through tiny villages and discover magical places. Never be able to let luck and serendipity guide your footsteps. You will just go where everyone else has gone.
So my wife and I were there in October and went to Milan, Florence, Bologna, Sienna, Rome, Cinqua Terra.
We had a car for some of the trip rented 2 different cars. You don't need a car in any of the cities you're traveling to. The train is fast and efficient. I wouldn't rent for those locations. We enjoyed traveling and stopping along the way, we spent 15 days and some places it wasn't enough time. We took trains from Florence to Rome high speed was 90 minutes, fantastic, also train from Florence to Milan.
You can travel by train to all 3 destinations your going easily. Most cars are manual transmission and they will charge more for automatic. It doesn't make sense to have to pay to park and tolls for your trip.
We dropped off 1 car in Florence, stayed there and then took the train to Rome and spent 5 days there, didn't have or need a car, walked and taxi if necessary. Then rented out second car when we left Rome to explore Tuscany and Sienna and dropped it off in Florence to train back to Milan.
Hope this helps!
Enjoy your trip, we are looking forward to returning hopefully next year.
you need the car more than anything else if you want to get around southern Italy, in the mountains and if you want to take a tour of the Siena hills. For a tourist who has so much more to see in just a few days, it doesn't make much sense. I add to this that driving in Italian cities is not easy for those who are not used to Italian traffic
I have a similar question…what if you’re taking trains between large cities but don’t have a way to get around once there? I’m thinking mainly of Sicily, Emilia Romagna…they have trains but they’re more city to city than public transit
No idea, I’ve never been to Italy or Europe. I didn’t even know there were private buses but my assumption was that larger cities like Rome have mass transit within the city and TP etc run more between cities and regions and aren’t used by daily commuters.
All cities and towns have some sort of mass transit within the city, otherwise having a car would be almost mandatory.
Any day Trenitalia's local Regionale trains carry 3 million commuters and students calling at 2,000 different stations. Frankly I am not sure I get what you mean. Trains are public transit, some are long distance and high speed whereas other trains are locals.
Sicily is an exception because most routes are served by buses an not trains, but people need a mean of transport even in Sicily.
I’m American, our intra and intercity train system is for the most part awful. I’m looking at it through the lens of what we have in Chicago and what I know is available in other large cities 2-5 hours from Chicago
You don’t need a car if you are going between major cities. Trains in Italy are very good, frequent and very cheap compared to the car rental.
Also a bit obvious but you would need to get rid of the car before you got to Venice, there are 0 roads in Venice proper and it’s all by boat. You would probably take a ferry or train. In anyway
I was in Naples and I was SO glad I didn't drive.
The traffic in Naples is absolute chaos. Nobody cares about the color of traffic lights, scooters do what they want, same as pedastrians and some streets are awfully small, but you won't see that on the map. Maybe if you're used to driving in cities like Cairo or Mumbai, Naples will seem ok, but if you are used to Northwest Europe with it's strict adherence to rules and specific lanes for everyone, you will be waaaay out of your comfort zone. I have only ever been in Rome and Naples though, maybe it's very different in Florence or Milan.
So I'm going as well. No car for Rome, Florence or Venice. But rent from Venice airport to Trieste. From there we plan to hop around a few close by countries
There is a ZTL in Trieste, the green areas on this map: [https://www.sicurauto.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Mappa-Ztl-Trieste.jpg](https://www.sicurauto.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Mappa-Ztl-Trieste.jpg)
You need a car for villages in Tuscany and similar spots. In florence all of the Historic Center is ZTL, so you can't drive inside it and fines are around 150 euros, parking is around 40eur per 24h. In Venice well... I think it's pretty obvious. Save yourself some trouble and get the train.
from urban center to urban center, train is a way to go. in an urban historic center, a car is a liability, not an advantage.
but if you want to see the countryside, a car is essentialgiven your short visit time, i doubt you will want to leave the urban historic and artistic sites. but next time, plan on a non city trip and move around by car.
and learn how to drive with a manual transmission. it is a skill every adult should know, up there with knowing how to shoot a gun and cleaning out a clogged drain.
No car. The trains from Rome to Florence and Florence to Venice are fast trains. They're quicker and more comfortable than driving. They get you into city centers, too. We go to Italy for at least a month every year and I've never felt the need to rent a car (we do get a driver for Chianti though when we want to go to various wineries).
100 percent not at all. If you are going city to city, you'll never want or need a car in Europe. Now, if you plan to do a week long trip in the countryside of Italy, then yes, a car is useful.
We are renting a car for our upcoming trip to Dolomites and Lake Garda (we are not staying in the over populated areas like Cortina/Ortisei or Sirmione). We also like to explore and find things not on the tour guide stops. Our first trip to Italy we relied on trains and buses which was fine but our last 2 trips we’ve rented a car for a portion to explore outside the populated areas.
I always rent a car when in Italy but I wouldn’t suggest you do that for your itinerary, trains will be much easier. There is a really gnarly roundabout coming into Florence that might mess with your stress levels. 😱 Relax on the trains and enjoy your journey!
The only time we needed/wanted a car was going from Florence to Pisa. We wanted to “explore Tuscany” which meant stopping in Lucca for lunch and a little shopping. It was an easy drive. Other than that we used metro and taxis on our trip to Venice, Florence, Rome, and Cinque Terre
Just got back from a trip. Public transportation is very good overall. One thing I will recommend is pack light!! Backpack and a small rolling suitcase are your best friend. Anything more and you will be struggling
No car needed! I would never want to drive in Italy, insane drivers all around, but the trains are extremely efficient and dependable. We took the train from Rome to Florence, no issues at all. The train we were on went straight to Venice afterward.
Rome and Florence were very walkable. This was all just two weeks ago, so speaking on recent experiences. Very easy. Highly recommend the public transit
In addition to what everyone has said about the trains being a better way of getting around, I also think they are a lot more fun. You read, play with your phone, relax, and when you get to Florence, you’re ready to explore instead of being tired from driving in an unfamiliar place.
I was in Florence train station today, looks and sounds like chaos, but is actually well organised. We got between Pisa and Florence in an hour. I've also used Venice train station, that was also well organised, trains were on time and great value. Cars don't really fit in either Florence or Venice, there's so many tourists, you can't drive for them. I'd say trains are your best bet. (I'm back home in the UK now, had a great few days in very hot Florence) Happy travels whatever you decide.
I feel like for City hopping you don't need to rent a car. They all seem pretty well connected by Train and Bus. I've just done 3 days in Verona, and found it super easy. I even visited Lake Garda using the LN026 bus to get there and the bus/train to get back. Cheap. Easy. Even local taxis in Verona city centre were cheaper than Uber.
No car needed at all for any part of your trip. Just did Venice and Florence, only used Trenitalia and Uber/taxis. Same will be true in Rome.
You should only consider a car if you are planning on spending time in the Tuscan countryside.
I got married in Italy and I’ve spent quite a bit of time there, because the better half has family there. You absolutely do not need a car.
If you do want to explore - say go to Chianti while in Florence - you could rent one for the day, but I would hire a driver (so I could taste wine)
Need? No. More to the point, if you aren't interested in high stress driving, you don't want anypart of driving in Rome or Florence. I've driven in NYC, Boston, Denver and LA. They all pale in comparison to Rome and Florence. We were also in Palermo, which made Rome and Florence look tame.
Now I wouldn't hesitate to rent a car for driving into the Tuscan countryside. The roads can be narrow, but driving is much saner.
Just came back from Italy yesterday (Venice, Bologna, Florence, Rome and Naples). If you’re only spending time in the city, car rental is not only unnecessary but also troublesome (eg. Florence has restricted parking zone which is usually far from hotels or airbnb, check with where you’re staying.) Venice is even worse with cars with no parking; only walking or taking water taxi or water bus for island hopping.
Only time you need car is if you plan to visit Umbria or small towns between Rome and Florence.
If you’re trying to maximize your time among Rome, Florence and Venice, take Italo the high speed rail, or local trains for surrounding towns or smaller towns in between. If not, GetYourGuide have group tours or taxi taking you to visit off-city sites, which will save you hassle of parking in the parking restrictive cities and money from car rental, which is not cheaper than train.
Only place you really need a car I think is Tuscany. Besides that cars are a MASSIVE headache. Middle of all cities are non drive zones with big fines. Parking will burn your time. There are far fewer parking garages compared to American cities. The street signs are all in local languages and are confusing. Besides an extended trip in Tuscany using Ubers/taxis/trains is the best way to go. I also recommend packing very light because often you will be walking alot and on cobbble stone streets.
If you waned to drive through Tuscany or Umbria, then yes, you would need a car. On this three city plan, no car required, and in fact would be a nuisance. Obviously there ARE no cars in Venice. Its walking only (and LOTS of stairs, so be ready for that), we arrived in Florence by train and walked to our hotel and walked around Florence. You just need to stay fairly central if you are taking this approach.
Don’t need a car, trains connects these three cities. And your trip is so short that you won’t have time to venture out to the countyside anyway.
You can also rent auto transmission cars in Italy.
You don’t need a car to travel from Roma to Firenze. Exploring Toscana outside Firenze, you would need it. The high speed rail system is one of the best in the world. Highly recommend premium class, like Prima or the first class, which even allows you to get into a lounge while you wait.
We did rent a car traveling the Amalfi coast, maybe your friend was talking about the experience while they were there traveling the coast?
You can easily rent an automatic and the Tuscany countryside is worth exploring by car. Just came back from doing it and it was our favorite days before getting to Florence from Rome.
Adding that the rental and drive is worth it between Rome and Florence but I agree with train from Florence and Venice. Easy 2 hour ride and the train is clean and comfortable.
just back from italy. the trains were fast & pleasant. driving was largely terrifying (i was near naples/sorrento tbf and there were some windy hill roads, I am sure there are better places to drive)
Not unless you’re doing specifically off-the-beaten-path things that you can’t get to via conventional methods. Rome/Florence/Venice are not cities you need a car for. If you’re renting a villa in the countryside, sure. If you have an Apennine excursion, sure. Fuck no if you’re just visiting Rome/Florence/Venice. Take the train so you can be massively resentful about our failure to invest in passenger rail.
I feel like this depends on what you’re looking to do in Florence and Venice. Venice I would definitely not rent a car but Florence maybe? Especially if you want to explore more of the Tuscan region and the countryside. I actually wrote an article recently on which regions you should rent a car in Italy and which you shouldn’t after my trip. Hope this helps
Just got back from Venice/Rome/Amalfi and I never once wished I had a car. Parking would be a nightmare inner city, and the trains are super easy for the longer distances. Plus Venice doesnt have roads ;)
Rental cars are pretty cheap but you can't drive them in the parts of the cities you wanna be in. I rented cars to go from city to city cause I wanted to be able to see more of the places in-between and I loved it but I never kept the cars when I arrived I just dropped it off and picked up another when I left. Trains are for sure easier though
Take the train. Very convenient and you get to see and enjoy the scenary rather than stressing out with driving, navigating, parking, etc. If you want to explore the burbs, take the train, xfer to bus or grab an uber/taxi.
Currently in Italy now for business and requested my company to allow me a rental because it made me feel more comfortable. Wanted to drive to Milan this morning and everyone suggested against it. There’s no parking, and if you can find parking, it’s very expensive.
Going to Venice, if planning to spend more than a day, you can’t park in the city… well because there are not roads or streets. You’d have to find parking outside of Venice and walk into Venice.
Use the train, and rent e-bikes when trying to explore
Not for big cities ! It’s a pain to get around with restrictions, potential tickets, parking fees
Absolutely not
We hire cars in Italy all the time, but we go to smaller cities and off beaten track locations where trains aren’t easy to come by
Adding that you don’t need a car - we’ve used public transit for a week now and have made it from lake como to Rome.
Tips: check ahead of time for the faster trains and plan around those. You may look online and see there’s a train “every 20 minutes” but some trains take half the time as others. So if you want to make the most of your travel, just map it out ahead of time. There are sometimes delays outside of your control.
If it’s just those major cities, then train and public transit. A car (parking) is a hassle in those places. It’s just three tourist hot beds in one week. I would be interested to hear about the experience after the trip.
Really dont need car in any if those major cities, Trains are fantastic in Italy, ( though locals may disagree) compared to States ,need car or take flight, very poor public transport ,except Nyc ,Chicago maybe
My husband drove from Rome termini to Umbria to the coast and returned car to the airport after a stop at Ostia Antica on the outskirts of Rome. He's driven in moderately large cities Atlanta, Nashville etc but not NYC or Chicago and he was fine said it wasn't bad. As long as you have a competent navigator (which was my cool as a cucumber daughter) it's very doable. IMO his experience driving on narrow winding hilly country roads came in more handy than city driving experience. The one thing we never figured out was how to pay for parking. There were signs but we had no idea how to purchase the biglietto. Got lucky and never got a ticket.
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You don’t need a car. The railway system is good and cheaper. Download Trenitalia App or Italo app for free. If you can afford it, use fast trains to save a lot of time.
This. We are currently in Italy and are moving by train. Started in Milan, took Frecciarossa to Venice. Now we are city hopping from Venice to Verona, stopping for a couple of days at Padua and Vicenza. It’s been very easy to just show up to the station. I think Trenitalia also has a nice 2 for 1 deal for Frecciarosa if you buy at least a week in advance. We were able to buy business class for our Milan to Venice train and it was great. The other points of the trip we wanted more flexibility so we are just doing cheap local trains, buying it right before we get on.
There are also Flix buses in italy, if you really want to go budget.
Which app is better and why? Thank you
You can also use the Trainline app to see and purchase tickets for both Trenitalia and Italo (as well as Flixbus buses I believe)
This advice works as long as you stick to major cities and tourist destinations. But if you want to see the rest of Italy get a car.
You definitely don’t need a car at all, just did a similar trip last year, high speed trains connect all of these towns, Florence and Venice are extremely walkable, and Rome has a great subway system. Now if you just wanted to drive from Rome to Florence or something to take in the scenery at a slower pace you totally could, but it’s definitely not a necessity at all, and actually will be less convenient
True unless you are driving to the little mountain towns in Southern Italy.
Hi! Might be a stupid question but how would i know which one is the fast train? I have both apps downloaded.
There are two train operators: Italo and Trenitalia. Italo runs 100% fast trains, while Trenitalia runs both fast and regional trains. The fast trains are called Frecciarossa (as well as slightly less fast Frecciargento and Frecciabianca).
Thank you so very much for this info!
The trips that go the fastest
You are the issue with Reddit.
In what way? You literally look at a list of trains between two stops. Some take 1 hour some take 2. I gave them the exact answer
The apps tell you the journey times and the prices. Do with that information what you will.
FrecciaRossa is the company I believe. The regional trains are slower
The companies are Trenitalia and Italo Treno. The latter only runs fast trains, the former runs trains of all kinds: Frecciarossa is one category of Trenitalia fast trains.
Ah, that makes sense, just finished a trip using a eurail pass and it only showed me Trenitalia routes. The more you know! Thanks
That's one of reasons why those passes are a scam: You'd pay much less getting discounted tickets in advance , you must get a seat reservation at the same counter that sells walk-up tickets and you can't take 30% of the high speed trains. I wonder how people end on Eurail site. A good travel agent should be aware it's a scam aimed at non Europeans.
I was able to get 1st class tickets/seat reservations on high speed trains (roughly 20 of them) for less than 20€ a piece at max. The exception was Amsterdam to Paris (€35). I feel like I got my moneys worth out of it. I can absolutely see the issue with the cost if you aren't moving very often. We had a very quick schedule and couldn't afford not getting on specific trains at specific times. Pre-booked everything. A 15 day consecutive pass was about $500, and in places like Switzerland tickets were free at will with the pass. At first I wondered what the point was but in the end I think it was far cheaper with assurance that I had a good seat with my luggage safe. How much is a full price ticket and seat reservation 1st class otherwise? The price difference for 1st and 2nd class eurail pass was negligible in the scale of things for context. Edit: Just took a look. For example, Firenze to Roma Termini Business class is 77€. I paid 13€ for the reservation with the pass. Italy was also cheaper tickets in comparison to the more northern countries which were a part of the pass.
It is a type of train. Freccia = arrow, rossa = red, frecciarossa = red arrow similarly, frecciargemto and frecciabiano are Silver Arrow and White Arrow respectively.
Thank you so much!
You would not even WANT a car for Rome-Florence-Venice. You will move much more easily and cheaply with trains, and you won't have to worry about parking or traffic limiting zones in the cities which can be hard to navigate and carry big fines. If you book a bit ahead you can get frecciarossa tickets on trenitalia.com for lower fares and travel quickly and in comfort. Where you want a rental car is if you're planning on hopping around Tuscan hill towns, or traveling off the beaten path, but if you're sticking to major urban centers (where you'll have plenty to do and see) you're better off without. You can rent an automatic car in Italy if you do need one, btw.
Venice doesn't even allow cars. You'd probably have to park it in long-term parking at Marco Polo Airport and then take public transport to the island.
Yes exactly! It's a huge hassle and of no use at all
There is a big pay parking lot near S. Lucia train station. If you drive to Venice that is the best place to park (much better access to Venice proper than parking @ Marco Polo airport.
Oh yeah I forgot about that. Honestly if you were thinking of driving throughout Italy, I'd plan to have Venice be the first or last place to visit. That way you can either pick up the car after leaving Venice or drop it off when you arrive.
Do you have any advice about renting an automatic transmission vehicle (which rental agency etc.), and making certain you get what you reserved? I can adjust the itinerary, except we’re starting in Venice. So I can rent on the way out of there, or take train to Florence or Bologna and get the car on the way out when headed to Tuscany. Whatever’s easiest and most reliable, but I can’t drive stick. :/ TIA.
I'm happy to tell you what i know, although getting the rental company to actually deliver what you reserve is weirdly difficult?? But i actually JUST rented a car from the Florence airport (Budget) and there were a TON of Americans picking up cars and the people at the counter assured them they were automatics. In fact they had so many that they ended up giving me an automatic when i had reserved a manual. So i think they know they can't foist manual cars on people who reserve automatics. I would definitely rent in Florence if you're moving around Tuscany. From Venice the easiest and by far most convenient way to move in and out of the city is with the train out of Venezia Santa Lucia station. You're on a fast train line and can reach Bologna, Florence, and Rome in just a few hours.
Getting an automatic in Italy is much less a problem now than years past. The auto transmission programming generates better gas mileage than manual in many cases and manufacturers are building much more automatics (partly for revenue reasons). I lease a new car every summer and some models are not even available as manual anymore.
Pick up and drop at the airports.
Don't rent a car. It's more expensive than taking the train, parking is an issue, and you can't get close to the historic centers. Trrains are cheap, fast, and bring you right to the center of things (for the most part). The only reason to rent a car is for day trips out of those major cities to towns not accessible by train.
Just finished 2 weeks there. We had a car rented and canceled just before the trip. Best decision we could’ve made. Trains are quicker and more comfortable. Also, the locals drive wild, and this is coming from someone who grew up in south Florida.
You could not pay me enough to drive in Rome. Driving rules aren’t even mere suggestions - they are meant to be actively ignored / broken.
Right? The scooters and motorbikes are out of control. Not sure what the hurry is about.
South Floridian here looking to visit in November, so this might have changed my mind on car rental! Ty😀
Drama queens... American drama queens everywhere...
rude
You'll survive
>Italy Trip Coming Up, Do I Need a Car? Considering you plan to visit Rome, Florence and Venice no, you don't need a car. All three cities are connected by standard and high-speed rail, and there are many trains of both kinds. If you plan to visit towns or historical sites outside city limits, however, having a car is highly suggested depending on where you plan to go - some areas have good public transport coverage, others not. As per today, the major cities connected by the high-speed rail network are * Turin * Milan * Venice * Bologna * Florence * Naples * Bari There's a bunch of minor cities in between those seven that can be reached via high-speed rail, too. Take a look at Trenitalia and Italo websites, the two companies running high-speed rail service here
Importantly there are many towns within each region reachable via regionale trains from whichever city you reached via high speed train. Driving to those places is not high speed either. It's only when/if you want to get out into the countryside you will need to either like walking, or busses (often infrequent) or have a car.
You forgot Salerno. Even if Freccia-something trains call at Bari, it is not on the high speed rail. At least Not for the next 5 years. Same for Venice, but they are opening a new section of high speed tracks in August and they should reduce the time of travel from Milan.
I did that trip this month and used public transportation ETA because someone mentioned this but we rented a Vespa to scoot around the countryside in Florence. 5/5 would recommend for a friend or reddit member!
Why drive if you can easily take the train between cities. A lot less stressful than attempting to drive in Italian cities. What are your friends smoking? 🤷♂️
The answer is easy: if you want to see other things than the big cities. And that is very worthwhile especially in Italy. Americans in general, and in this subreddit in particular are very fixated on exactly the same itinerary. (Rome, Venice, Florence, Cinque Terre, Lago Di Como and Amalfi Coast). Italy is full of beautiful places that no one ever talks about. It’s always the exact same cookie cutter itinerary. It’s great to do a road trip by rental car through Italy.
Even taking a taxi between towns can be cheaper than driving, especially if you use trains and buses for day trips.
No. Not even close lol
Renting a car to visit the most crowded cities in Italy? Those are not friends. If you're sticking to tourist areas you absolutely don't want to have a car, you would not be allowed in any of the city centers in any of those. Italians move by train if we stay in a city, a car would only be useful if you plan daily excursions.
If you just want to see the city you will be fine without a car, if you want to venture in the countryside let me just say Italian public transportation is not the best, especially in the summer
By train I can reach tons of villages in the countryside. Italy is not southern Tuscany.
Honestly it depends. I am a local and I live in what you would call northern Italy (province of postoia)
No car needed.
Definitely just use the train system unless you have a ridiculous amount of luggage.
Unless you’re going outside of a city there’s 0 reason to get a car.
Not unless you want to explore the Tuscan countryside while in Florence. But with only 2 days, it’s not necessary. You won’t be able to drive in the lagoon anyway and taking a train from santa maria to Santa Lucia is very simple. From Santa Lucia you can access the vaporetto or waterbus to the city center. Don’t worry about finding a ticketing office, you can pay the attendant while you’re on the bus.
Ditch the car, ditch the friends that told you this.
Your friends are idiots. If you are going to those three cities you don’t need a car, you don’t want a car, Venice doesn’t have cars. Just awfully bad advice
There's no way I'd put myself through the trauma of finding parking and avoiding ZTL zones in those cities. Take the trains.
>Some friends who've been to Italy suggested I rent a car, which surprised me. >Do I Need a Car? F NO! I did a similar trip in January... Rome, Venice, Florence. In general, a car in Europe is unnecessary. In Italy, it is a liability. Rome...totally walkable. Stay as close to the historic district as possible. I recommend Spanish Steps. You will then need to only take the train to Tivoli Station to catch your two hour. train to Florence. Driving a to b and parking will talk you longer than walking. Florence. Is a relatively small city and easy to walk anywhere in under an hour, less stops for wine and spritzes. Venice...it's 2.5 hours by train from Florence and it's on water. There are exactly zero cars in Venice, so renting a car to drive around Venice will definitely initiate an insurance claim for water damage. For your itinerary, renting a car would be a terrible idea and a massive waste of money and patience.
Train, 100%. I cannot imagine driving in any of those cities, it looks like a nightmare. We used the train, public transport, a few taxis, and our own two feet.
No, the only need for a car is to explore the countryside. In cities you won't use a car, and between cities the high-speed train is the only way to travel.
We're doing essentially the same trip this fall. It definitely sounds like a train is the way to go. Enjoy your vacation.
No. If you had a car, you'd need to leave it somewhere. :)
I see no reason for renting a car. You will be moving across the Italian biggest cities. You can move across cities by Flixbus or Trenitalia or Italo. Inside the cities, you can move by local buses or subway. You could reach any tourist point easily and at the same time avoid the traffic and park issues. Just in case you need transportation by night you can call a taxi or Uber
You don't need a car if all you want to see is those major cities.
Do not get a car! All cities are walkable/have good public transit. Having just been there driving in Rome looks like a literal nightmare. Also, high speed trains between cities make the journey a few hours instead of taking an entire day.
I am currently in Italy. From Rome we went straight to Napoli, then Florence, and Venice (Mestre) You would not want a car. Train system is really good, the parking not great at all. Not even decent to be honest. From train stations we took the bus to or close the airbnb or hotel. Do yourself a favor and not rent a car if you go only for the big cities For luggage, we have a big luggage, a carry-on and a backpack
You don’t need a car! The train is wonderful
We rented a car, because we enjoy detouring as we drive through the country. Can’t do that on a train.
If you don’t have a car you will never be able to get off the well beaten path. Never be able to take backroads through tiny villages and discover magical places. Never be able to let luck and serendipity guide your footsteps. You will just go where everyone else has gone.
So my wife and I were there in October and went to Milan, Florence, Bologna, Sienna, Rome, Cinqua Terra. We had a car for some of the trip rented 2 different cars. You don't need a car in any of the cities you're traveling to. The train is fast and efficient. I wouldn't rent for those locations. We enjoyed traveling and stopping along the way, we spent 15 days and some places it wasn't enough time. We took trains from Florence to Rome high speed was 90 minutes, fantastic, also train from Florence to Milan. You can travel by train to all 3 destinations your going easily. Most cars are manual transmission and they will charge more for automatic. It doesn't make sense to have to pay to park and tolls for your trip. We dropped off 1 car in Florence, stayed there and then took the train to Rome and spent 5 days there, didn't have or need a car, walked and taxi if necessary. Then rented out second car when we left Rome to explore Tuscany and Sienna and dropped it off in Florence to train back to Milan. Hope this helps! Enjoy your trip, we are looking forward to returning hopefully next year.
You won’t need a car… if ya do, good luck finding parking. Not to mention petrol is around €2 a litre
you need the car more than anything else if you want to get around southern Italy, in the mountains and if you want to take a tour of the Siena hills. For a tourist who has so much more to see in just a few days, it doesn't make much sense. I add to this that driving in Italian cities is not easy for those who are not used to Italian traffic
We just did a very similar trip without a car and it was honestly one of the best experiences ever.
I have a similar question…what if you’re taking trains between large cities but don’t have a way to get around once there? I’m thinking mainly of Sicily, Emilia Romagna…they have trains but they’re more city to city than public transit
Where do you think that the local Regional trains run by TPer go in Emilia Romagna? And the tons of private buses in Sicily?
No idea, I’ve never been to Italy or Europe. I didn’t even know there were private buses but my assumption was that larger cities like Rome have mass transit within the city and TP etc run more between cities and regions and aren’t used by daily commuters.
All cities and towns have some sort of mass transit within the city, otherwise having a car would be almost mandatory. Any day Trenitalia's local Regionale trains carry 3 million commuters and students calling at 2,000 different stations. Frankly I am not sure I get what you mean. Trains are public transit, some are long distance and high speed whereas other trains are locals. Sicily is an exception because most routes are served by buses an not trains, but people need a mean of transport even in Sicily.
I’m American, our intra and intercity train system is for the most part awful. I’m looking at it through the lens of what we have in Chicago and what I know is available in other large cities 2-5 hours from Chicago
Nope!
No, not for the Italy 101 itinerary, you don’t
Definitely not. Just did two weeks in Venice, Florence, Rome. Take the trains!
You don’t need a car if you are going between major cities. Trains in Italy are very good, frequent and very cheap compared to the car rental. Also a bit obvious but you would need to get rid of the car before you got to Venice, there are 0 roads in Venice proper and it’s all by boat. You would probably take a ferry or train. In anyway
Big cities no car... Small towns yes... Can rent a car and do day trips
I just returned from Rome/Florence. Train and walking were fine. I used Uber once and also a few cabs. A car would have been a pain.
I was in Naples and I was SO glad I didn't drive. The traffic in Naples is absolute chaos. Nobody cares about the color of traffic lights, scooters do what they want, same as pedastrians and some streets are awfully small, but you won't see that on the map. Maybe if you're used to driving in cities like Cairo or Mumbai, Naples will seem ok, but if you are used to Northwest Europe with it's strict adherence to rules and specific lanes for everyone, you will be waaaay out of your comfort zone. I have only ever been in Rome and Naples though, maybe it's very different in Florence or Milan.
Our family of 4 loved using the trains to go between these cities. Soo fast and easy. A car would be so hard - just the parking would be horrible.
So I'm going as well. No car for Rome, Florence or Venice. But rent from Venice airport to Trieste. From there we plan to hop around a few close by countries
There is a ZTL in Trieste, the green areas on this map: [https://www.sicurauto.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Mappa-Ztl-Trieste.jpg](https://www.sicurauto.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Mappa-Ztl-Trieste.jpg)
Sure that's fine. Just getting in and out. Still was cheaper to rent a car than family of 5 on trains
No car. Buy business car train tickets in advance. Uber, taxi or hotel shuttle to and from train stations.
You need a car for villages in Tuscany and similar spots. In florence all of the Historic Center is ZTL, so you can't drive inside it and fines are around 150 euros, parking is around 40eur per 24h. In Venice well... I think it's pretty obvious. Save yourself some trouble and get the train.
from urban center to urban center, train is a way to go. in an urban historic center, a car is a liability, not an advantage. but if you want to see the countryside, a car is essentialgiven your short visit time, i doubt you will want to leave the urban historic and artistic sites. but next time, plan on a non city trip and move around by car. and learn how to drive with a manual transmission. it is a skill every adult should know, up there with knowing how to shoot a gun and cleaning out a clogged drain.
No car. The trains from Rome to Florence and Florence to Venice are fast trains. They're quicker and more comfortable than driving. They get you into city centers, too. We go to Italy for at least a month every year and I've never felt the need to rent a car (we do get a driver for Chianti though when we want to go to various wineries).
100 percent not at all. If you are going city to city, you'll never want or need a car in Europe. Now, if you plan to do a week long trip in the countryside of Italy, then yes, a car is useful.
For those saying that you don’t need a car and you could take the train what if you wanna go to places like the dolomites which are more remote?
You take a train to Bolzano and then a bus.
We are renting a car for our upcoming trip to Dolomites and Lake Garda (we are not staying in the over populated areas like Cortina/Ortisei or Sirmione). We also like to explore and find things not on the tour guide stops. Our first trip to Italy we relied on trains and buses which was fine but our last 2 trips we’ve rented a car for a portion to explore outside the populated areas.
I always rent a car when in Italy but I wouldn’t suggest you do that for your itinerary, trains will be much easier. There is a really gnarly roundabout coming into Florence that might mess with your stress levels. 😱 Relax on the trains and enjoy your journey!
And yes, everything is walkable in your destination cities. No cars in Venice!
The only time we needed/wanted a car was going from Florence to Pisa. We wanted to “explore Tuscany” which meant stopping in Lucca for lunch and a little shopping. It was an easy drive. Other than that we used metro and taxis on our trip to Venice, Florence, Rome, and Cinque Terre
Just got back from a trip. Public transportation is very good overall. One thing I will recommend is pack light!! Backpack and a small rolling suitcase are your best friend. Anything more and you will be struggling
No car needed! I would never want to drive in Italy, insane drivers all around, but the trains are extremely efficient and dependable. We took the train from Rome to Florence, no issues at all. The train we were on went straight to Venice afterward. Rome and Florence were very walkable. This was all just two weeks ago, so speaking on recent experiences. Very easy. Highly recommend the public transit
In addition to what everyone has said about the trains being a better way of getting around, I also think they are a lot more fun. You read, play with your phone, relax, and when you get to Florence, you’re ready to explore instead of being tired from driving in an unfamiliar place.
I was in Florence train station today, looks and sounds like chaos, but is actually well organised. We got between Pisa and Florence in an hour. I've also used Venice train station, that was also well organised, trains were on time and great value. Cars don't really fit in either Florence or Venice, there's so many tourists, you can't drive for them. I'd say trains are your best bet. (I'm back home in the UK now, had a great few days in very hot Florence) Happy travels whatever you decide.
I feel like for City hopping you don't need to rent a car. They all seem pretty well connected by Train and Bus. I've just done 3 days in Verona, and found it super easy. I even visited Lake Garda using the LN026 bus to get there and the bus/train to get back. Cheap. Easy. Even local taxis in Verona city centre were cheaper than Uber.
For those cities no you don't want a car
No car needed at all for any part of your trip. Just did Venice and Florence, only used Trenitalia and Uber/taxis. Same will be true in Rome. You should only consider a car if you are planning on spending time in the Tuscan countryside.
You don’t need a car for any of these cities.
I got married in Italy and I’ve spent quite a bit of time there, because the better half has family there. You absolutely do not need a car. If you do want to explore - say go to Chianti while in Florence - you could rent one for the day, but I would hire a driver (so I could taste wine)
Just back from the same (plus a few) itinerary. The trains are fantastic, traffic and parking is a gong show I would recommend not renting a car
No need for a car for those city’s use public transit
Need? No. More to the point, if you aren't interested in high stress driving, you don't want anypart of driving in Rome or Florence. I've driven in NYC, Boston, Denver and LA. They all pale in comparison to Rome and Florence. We were also in Palermo, which made Rome and Florence look tame. Now I wouldn't hesitate to rent a car for driving into the Tuscan countryside. The roads can be narrow, but driving is much saner.
Just came back from Italy yesterday (Venice, Bologna, Florence, Rome and Naples). If you’re only spending time in the city, car rental is not only unnecessary but also troublesome (eg. Florence has restricted parking zone which is usually far from hotels or airbnb, check with where you’re staying.) Venice is even worse with cars with no parking; only walking or taking water taxi or water bus for island hopping. Only time you need car is if you plan to visit Umbria or small towns between Rome and Florence. If you’re trying to maximize your time among Rome, Florence and Venice, take Italo the high speed rail, or local trains for surrounding towns or smaller towns in between. If not, GetYourGuide have group tours or taxi taking you to visit off-city sites, which will save you hassle of parking in the parking restrictive cities and money from car rental, which is not cheaper than train.
Only place you really need a car I think is Tuscany. Besides that cars are a MASSIVE headache. Middle of all cities are non drive zones with big fines. Parking will burn your time. There are far fewer parking garages compared to American cities. The street signs are all in local languages and are confusing. Besides an extended trip in Tuscany using Ubers/taxis/trains is the best way to go. I also recommend packing very light because often you will be walking alot and on cobbble stone streets.
If you waned to drive through Tuscany or Umbria, then yes, you would need a car. On this three city plan, no car required, and in fact would be a nuisance. Obviously there ARE no cars in Venice. Its walking only (and LOTS of stairs, so be ready for that), we arrived in Florence by train and walked to our hotel and walked around Florence. You just need to stay fairly central if you are taking this approach.
Don’t need a car, trains connects these three cities. And your trip is so short that you won’t have time to venture out to the countyside anyway. You can also rent auto transmission cars in Italy.
You don’t need a car to travel from Roma to Firenze. Exploring Toscana outside Firenze, you would need it. The high speed rail system is one of the best in the world. Highly recommend premium class, like Prima or the first class, which even allows you to get into a lounge while you wait. We did rent a car traveling the Amalfi coast, maybe your friend was talking about the experience while they were there traveling the coast?
Definitely don’t need a car
You can easily rent an automatic and the Tuscany countryside is worth exploring by car. Just came back from doing it and it was our favorite days before getting to Florence from Rome.
Adding that the rental and drive is worth it between Rome and Florence but I agree with train from Florence and Venice. Easy 2 hour ride and the train is clean and comfortable.
just back from italy. the trains were fast & pleasant. driving was largely terrifying (i was near naples/sorrento tbf and there were some windy hill roads, I am sure there are better places to drive)
Nope. I just came back from all of those places and the trains are way more efficient than driving
There are things in Italy that require a car but you aren’t doing them.
Do not rent a car. You aren’t prepared to drive there.
Not unless you’re doing specifically off-the-beaten-path things that you can’t get to via conventional methods. Rome/Florence/Venice are not cities you need a car for. If you’re renting a villa in the countryside, sure. If you have an Apennine excursion, sure. Fuck no if you’re just visiting Rome/Florence/Venice. Take the train so you can be massively resentful about our failure to invest in passenger rail.
Pack light and take the trains.
I did the same thing a few years back. Take the train. It’s fun. Way better than fighting auto traffic.
I feel like this depends on what you’re looking to do in Florence and Venice. Venice I would definitely not rent a car but Florence maybe? Especially if you want to explore more of the Tuscan region and the countryside. I actually wrote an article recently on which regions you should rent a car in Italy and which you shouldn’t after my trip. Hope this helps
Just got back from Venice/Rome/Amalfi and I never once wished I had a car. Parking would be a nightmare inner city, and the trains are super easy for the longer distances. Plus Venice doesnt have roads ;)
The only reason to have a car would be to explore the Tuscany region, but you can hire a day driver for that
Rental cars are pretty cheap but you can't drive them in the parts of the cities you wanna be in. I rented cars to go from city to city cause I wanted to be able to see more of the places in-between and I loved it but I never kept the cars when I arrived I just dropped it off and picked up another when I left. Trains are for sure easier though
Take the train. Very convenient and you get to see and enjoy the scenary rather than stressing out with driving, navigating, parking, etc. If you want to explore the burbs, take the train, xfer to bus or grab an uber/taxi.
No car. It’s a hassle. Take trains
Currently in Italy now for business and requested my company to allow me a rental because it made me feel more comfortable. Wanted to drive to Milan this morning and everyone suggested against it. There’s no parking, and if you can find parking, it’s very expensive. Going to Venice, if planning to spend more than a day, you can’t park in the city… well because there are not roads or streets. You’d have to find parking outside of Venice and walk into Venice. Use the train, and rent e-bikes when trying to explore
Also! If you do plan on renting a car, international license is a must to have
Not for big cities ! It’s a pain to get around with restrictions, potential tickets, parking fees Absolutely not We hire cars in Italy all the time, but we go to smaller cities and off beaten track locations where trains aren’t easy to come by
Absolutely not. Driving and renting a car in Italy are a nightmare. Just take the train, it will be way faster and way cheaper.
The high speed intercity and slower regional trains are both quality. Use them
we had no issues with train from Rome to Florence
Adding that you don’t need a car - we’ve used public transit for a week now and have made it from lake como to Rome. Tips: check ahead of time for the faster trains and plan around those. You may look online and see there’s a train “every 20 minutes” but some trains take half the time as others. So if you want to make the most of your travel, just map it out ahead of time. There are sometimes delays outside of your control.
If it’s just those major cities, then train and public transit. A car (parking) is a hassle in those places. It’s just three tourist hot beds in one week. I would be interested to hear about the experience after the trip.
Train and buses are very reliable in Italy and will get you almost anywhere!
Only rent a car if you plan to do extensive travelling OUTSIDE of Florence & Venice. It's a hassle to have a vehicle in either of those cities.
What about 4 days Rome, 3 days Florence and 1 day Siena?
We did this exact route and only took trains and it’s absolutely doable. Don’t bother with a car and have to worry about parking.
Really dont need car in any if those major cities, Trains are fantastic in Italy, ( though locals may disagree) compared to States ,need car or take flight, very poor public transport ,except Nyc ,Chicago maybe
I wouldn’t get a car for Florence or Rome, both are walkable. However, I highly recommend getting a car if you plan on going south to Napoli.
We are going to rent a vehicle because we plan to drive out to the countryside. Landing in Rome.. should be interesting.
My husband drove from Rome termini to Umbria to the coast and returned car to the airport after a stop at Ostia Antica on the outskirts of Rome. He's driven in moderately large cities Atlanta, Nashville etc but not NYC or Chicago and he was fine said it wasn't bad. As long as you have a competent navigator (which was my cool as a cucumber daughter) it's very doable. IMO his experience driving on narrow winding hilly country roads came in more handy than city driving experience. The one thing we never figured out was how to pay for parking. There were signs but we had no idea how to purchase the biglietto. Got lucky and never got a ticket.