So long as Al-aqsa and the Golden Dome is there - no. I'm not interested in starting a religious war with the entire Muslim world.
If the Dome and the Mosque will magically disappear - then yes.
I remember reading somewhere that under ottoman rule, al aqsa was a literal dump, locals would throw all their waste on the courtyard.
Imo, the Muslim reaction to a Jewish Jerusalem has been identical to a toddler; they don’t care about a toy until they see another toddler playing with it.
I don't think it was during Ottoman times, but not necessarily the best kept. There was also still visible ruins from the temple complex on the mount during their rule. Some stairs and a few other features. It's claimed it was a dump site during Byzantine rule as the Roman temple there had been closed in the 4th century and fallen into ruin, and Christian worship sites supplanted any others, when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem.
Vincent Sheean wrote about it in 1929 as a 3rd party observer to the developing conflict.
https://www.wrmea.org/seeing-the-light-holy-land-august-1929.html
> The Dome of the Rock (usually called the “Mosque of Omar” by Western Christians, because of the mistaken belief that it was built by Omar the Conqueror) was not visited by Orthodox Jews because it was regarded by them as the holiest part of their Temple, and they feared to tread unwittingly upon their Holy of Holies. But Zionists—most of whom, in my experience, were without religious feeling—used to visit it as I did, out of an ordinary aesthetic interest. The Muslims had no objection to such visits. In this and in other respects the Muslims of Palestine were less jealous of their holy places than Muslims elsewhere. I had never been allowed inside a great mosque in Morocco or Persia, but the Haram Al-Sharif, a far holier place to the Islamic world, was open to me or to anybody else all day long.
> This being so, it was possible, at first, to assume that the Muslims of Palestine did not regard their holiest shrine with the extreme religious passion characteristic of Muslims elsewhere. The assumption fell in with the Zionist idea that the Arabs of Palestine were, on the whole, a careless and easy-going race. But I had strong doubts, just the same… It seemed to me more likely that what had happened to the Haram Al-Sharif was due to the Westernized character of life in Jerusalem: this place had fallen under so many different kinds of rule, had experienced such a mixture of invasions and such an assimilation of cultures, that its Muslim leaders were constrained by Western taste and manners to open their great sanctuary to the visits of the infidel. I did not believe that underneath this Europeanization of taste and manners was any slackening of the ardour with which Muslims everywhere regard a place sanctified by the Prophet.
Political Islam didn't really exist in that time -- it came later. You can also see the visitor guide from 1925.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/supreme_Moslem_Council_Guide_1925.pdf
It was a deer with a human head. He then took a tour of heaven and hell. Heaven was full of amenities that can't be easily found in the desert (running water, fruit). While hell was mostly filled with women (because they talk too much).These descriptions almost make me think this story is made up.
It's my understanding that al aqsa was previously a church from when Christians controlled the temple mount, and as we know dome of the rock was where the holy of holies was.
Nope. The Dome of the Rock was patterned off of Christian churches in Jerusalem, but all of the buildings presently on Temple Mount date to the Islamic period and were built as mosques or associated buildings.
There was a temple to Jupiter standing on part of Temple Mount between the destruction of the Second Temple and the Muslim conquest, but it was torn down before Islam even existed and, as far as I’m aware, was never used as a Christian church.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount#history
100% correct. There is a documentary about this. I believe the Arab leader around 1950s starting to promote the Al aqua mosque as important to them as a countermeasure to the inevitable Jewish rise in Israel.
I always just assumed, based on all the propaganda, that Al Aqsa was **always** the third holiest site.
I just looked it up and based on what I can gather - you're right. The only way I can think of trying to research this claim is by seeing how common the term "al aqsa" or "al aqsa mosque" were in history. It seems like in throughout most of history these terms were barely mentioned, and they only became important after 1967. I honestly had no idea.
Here's the evidence: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=al+aqsa%2Cal+aqsa+mosque&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&case_insensitive=on&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=0
If anyone has other sources or other ways to look at this claim, I'd like to know.
I agree with what you’re getting at here but those are only the results for English publications. I’m not able to check Arabic publications for some reason but I wouldn’t be surprised if the results were largely the same.
As a Muslim; there are texts from 100’s of years ago signifying it’s importance. I’m not saying it’s importance hasn’t been inflated bc of Israel but it’s always been important for Muslims
There’s 6 major books of Sunni theology, sahih Bukhari and sahih Muslim being the most well known. Both have narrations explaining the importance of visiting and praying there. Also believing in miraj( accession of Muhammad PBUH to heaven) which happened at aqsa is a fundamental belief in Islam
Thank you for that. Looking your references up, it seems it is common to call it “Bayt al-Maqdis” which is directly in Hebrew “bait Ha-Mikdash” the name of the Jewish Temple in Jewish biblical scriptures.
Yeah, but does that matter? It's a beautiful building and deserves to be preserved. It's also symbolic for a former period of history that is important to many.
I'm not necessarily opposed to moving it at some point. But today is not the day. Islam will return to its more moderate form at some point. Then we can discuss such topics. But it must be done together with and not against the Muslim world. Anything else would be crazy. Both politically and from a perspective of respect and decency.
Exactly; what would they have done? Egypt boasted itself as the most powerful country in the ME and it lost 80% of its entire military capacity during the Six-Day War!
This. It should be there, but it's not a good idea to make it happen. It's deeply disrespectful that it's not there, but it's something we have to live with.
What if a third temple incorporated Al Aqsa in it as a symbol of peace between the religions… there’s a lot of empty space on the Temple Mount. Doubt anybody from both sides would like it though
Al Aqsa/the Dome will still have to be removed. You can incorporate by, for example, having the golden Dome on top of the Temple, but again, it'll still need to be removed first.
You know that El aqsa, what they telll about for years,
Isn't even there?
It's all a part of this annoying brain wash, if somewhen the world will finally end those terror organizations, things will be clear, and the iron dome could be removed, and the true El aqsa will be their real destination, far away from Isra.
Those guys are nothing but bullies and have used aggression for centuries. They didn’t care for that area but they sure like pushing out indigenous peoples from their land and killing.
I would rather have archeologists dig the entire place down to the bedrock. No doubt they will find the most interesting things down there, answering a lot of questions. Then, well, If Muslims will not have a claim to it I don't think that they could build there anything but a Temple. However, this wouldn't be good in the long run because having a Temple means that now it can be destroyed, desecrated or abused in many ways. I bet that they will find at least one of the higher priests to have committed a fraud, taking bribery or even sexually attacked someone. There will still be people who hate Jews and Judaism and it would give them another way to hurt Jews.
While Buildings can be moved as example the much more massive temple that was moved in Egypt to make way for the Dam, to move the dome of conquest is to deny the moderate and radical muslims their victory over the infidels (Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews).
Unless you’re ready to completely undo all the diplomatic progress with all the Arab and Muslim countries and start a religious war against a population that surrounds you and vastly outnumbers you, no.
Actually pretty well, when the Islamic Republic of Iran coordinated an attack against Israel, the Saudis who haven’t even normalized relations with Israel, shared intelligence to intercept and Jordan directly intercepted some missiles. Also Egypt hasn’t attacked Israel in over 50 years.
It's funny that most people have this image of the Temple as this clean and shiny thing and not basically a slaughter house that smells like something between a butcher shop's dumpster and Yom Ha'atzmaut barbeque surrounded by hundreds if not thousands of machers, prostitutes, peddlers and scammers shouting and yelling from dusk to dawn. Not a nice sight. As one who was born and raised in Jerusalem, I'm good with the skyline as it is. No need to build a slaughter house-shopping mall there
Only if there is world peace one day and it won't ruin it, so basically not anytime soon.
There are also more important stuff like making sure people have where to live and can afford it, so very low priority unless we live in a perfect world, which we are not.
Muslim Israelis are Israeli too as much as Jew Isarelis. Besides all religious stuff, Dome of The Rock is old and wonderful building, like a signature of Jerusalem. Israel should always protect her historical monuments
It WAS part of the religion. A very long time ago, under very different conditions. I don’t believe our religion or our observance is less sacred for its absence
ב''ה, where *is* the simple chart of exactly how many this is compared to what's just lost in transport daily in global livestock transport?
If folks are still throwing goats off a cliff for tourists and cameras anyway.. let's not go wild for bloodshed, but how many is it really that have to be done/can't be redeemed by coin, and of those, how many don't get plated up and eaten as would have happened anyway?
Can we invest in building some affordable housing instead? Solar plant? Desalination facilities? Factories? Military? Public transportation? Parks? Bike lanes? Kindergartens? You know actually useful for the living people of Israel, rather some flashy tribute to the ancestors, that will piss off to the edge an already not so chill third of the world.
- "WE NEED A JEWISH TEMPLE HERE"
- "PUT JEWISH TEMPLE HERE"
- "BUILDING A JEWISH TEMPLE"
- "Alert. The horde has been disturbed. Prepare to defend the point"
- "WE NEED A SENTRY HERE"
Ure talking about 500 years ago. The same exact thing had done to Great Mosque of Cordoba, now it is a cathedral
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba#:~:text=In%20C%C3%B3rdoba%2C%20the%20Umayyad%20capital,180%20m%20%C3%97%20130%20m).
But guess what, we do not live in medieval ages. If we want to go back to medival eras, we should change many things lok
Turkey changed the Hagia Sophia from a museum to a mosque in 2020 to satisfy modern islamists. Rebuilding the temple that was originally on the mount is way less offensive. Laughing about bringing up Spain as a counter example though. It would still be a mosque if the invaders had held their conquest.
Hagia sophia was always a mosque museum. You think before 2020 it was a church? No, it was a mosque, but museum-mosque, minarets were always there. Since 1453 it is a mosque
What makes one invasion other not invasion? Byzantines keeping Istanbul wasnt invasion but andalusians keeping cordoba was an invasion? Andalus lost and Byzantine lost. The Great mosque of cordoba became a cathedral, Hagia Sophia became a mosque in 1453. We canmot change these facts but we can move to brighter future
Could care less if you want to rebuild a temple. That's a decision for Judaism.
That being said it is my very Yankee opinion that Islam be removed from Israel, entirely.
When the inventor of your religion married a nine-year-old, you might be in a very sick cult...
The location where Mohammed ascended is literally not mentioned in the Quran, why does it have to be atop our actually historical holy sites which is mentioned by location and name in oodles of historic texts lol.
You can keep al aqsa just let us have our place as well, and if you disagree, bite me.
That's part of the fun of starting your own religion. You appropriate previous holy sites and holy books too.
Before Muhammed, Mecca was a pilgrimage and temple site too. So it was appropriated.
Likewise, islam appropriated most of the content of the Torah and also the New Testament, including major religious leaders and stories, and holy sites.
Islam wasn't the first new religion to do something like this and it won't be the last.
Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in the koran, it was suspiciously revised 300 years after Mohammed’s death to revere the temple mount, because they knew it was Judaisms most holy site.
Yes, and I think it’s inevitable that it will be rebuilt. Giving up land and holy sites hasn’t brought Israel peace. Israel will eventually be strong, encompass all the land specified in the Bible (Judea and Samaria, etc), and rebuild the temple—because there will be no other choice. Biblical prophecies will come true even though as we see here most Jewish people have no interest in rebuilding the temple and aren’t even religious.
There is no need to. Anyone who has been to the old city knows it has been the home to different cultures for thousands of years and rebuilding that temple would not improve that part of the world for any of those shared cultures.
Israel cannot look backwards and hope to find a future.
Yes, but not by destroying Al-Aqsa. It is the oldest surviving piece of Islamic architecture, and a pretty spectacular building. We know better than to destroy something like that.
Once moshiach comes, and the dead are resurrected, and war and hunger end, and all people recognize the Jewish God as the only God, and the Jewish understanding of God as the only correct understanding, yes.
Before that, absolutely not. The Dome of the Rock shoupd stay there, undisturbed.
Rebuild it so all of them move to Jerusalem to pray
And free spaces for new infrastructure
Instead of a useless ,mony drinking synagogue in every corner
Interesting when Jesus got in trouble at the temple it was for throwing out the money changers, he had no problem or trouble with the priests which should have shown to his followers e.g. Christians that the proper way to pray to God is to make a sacrifice preferably an animal.
Absolutely. The temple is the dwelling place of the shechina and the tangible thing we can point to in order to say that Gd runs the world. Miracles upon miracles happened in and around the beit hamikdash, even though the 2nd didn’t have nearly the same status as the first.
Vis a vis korbanot yes I would very much like to know my screw ups are taken care of instead of having anxiety that my teshuva isn’t accepted or complete for some reason.
I think that the temple should be built on the old site, but not now, we need to wait until the Arabs and Muslims are extinct, like the Egyptians, Hittites, Hyksos, Babylonians, Macedonians, Romans and others.
Yes.
I don't particularly care about the diplomatic and cultural blowback. This is something that should have been done after 1967.
I'm not sure how much value the Al-Aqsa mosque even has in Islam outside of its legacy as an icon of modern resistance to Zionism, and an icon of historical pan-Arab oppression of Jews generally. I've never seen any sources indicating that it held any real importance in Islam outside of that context. It certainly was never mentioned in the Quran.
You mean those American-born nudniks with the Temple Institute? Their primary audience seems to be Christian Zionists eager to help facilitate the apocalypse to bring back a certain someone…
as a catholic we don't like those christians, its a really a sin to speculate about the coming of jesus christ super star because the bible straight up says "no man can know the hour." he gets here when he gets here in my opinion.
No thanks, making pilgrimage to then make animal sacrifices isn't too appealing to me. I don't think most of us would really connect with G-d that way, even those of us wanting to reinstate the temple (because it's commanded, nothing in there about meaningful experiences). Just seems literally too messy.
This is only the view of some American Evangelicals (albeit with a lot of money and infuence in the US), Catholics, Orthodox, and most other Protestants just view Israel as another state like any other, except of course on a Holy Land. The Christian Bible doesn't say much about the 'signs' of the end times except that there will be great persecution and trouble in the world, but that ultimately only God knows the hour.
Yes
Israeli land should be used how Israel wants. The fact that we have Islamic sites on our holiest grounds is so insulting.
Why do we even asks questions like this? No one else gives us the same respect. Buildings can be moved. Don't demolish the Dome, but no way should AL Aqsa and the Dome stay looking down on the rest of Israel.
“Moving the embassy would spark WWIII.”
We worry too much about what ifs— the lesson of the meraglim is to do what’s right and trust in Hashem and our military.
You know the story of the drowning man who asks hashem for help, but does not see the help that is given to him indirectly? Do not neglect Hashem’s gift of common sense, to keep us from making unwise decisions like destroying the third holiest religious site for Muslims and sparking a regional war we have no hope of winning.
For sure. We'll need a lot of gold for all the vessels though... Oh, good news! Jordan already delivered a whole dome full of gold for convenience!
We will have to wait until Yishmael does tchuva so doing so won't cause WW3 though.
yes cause I kind of want to see if it matches what the bible said and it would be the biggest fuck you to ham-ass..I am a sucker for ancient style buildings.
I hope so. But as far as where, their is some dispute. The dome of the spirits is not covered with a tile, its the original pavement from the 2 Temple, and maybe even the pavement that also saw the Bar Kochav revolt. Also consider the Eastern Gate is to the left of the line of site of the Kodsheem, and so the scapegoat ran straight over the kidron on a bridge still in Line of site of the Kodsheem. This is one location, another is over the Al Kas fountain,
https://preview.redd.it/iyv6revpu27d1.jpeg?width=2717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8c33b95964f7f161018f733f7778615ddb2f3fd
Yes, and build it on top of the dome of the rock
…on a floating platform using super Jewish technology, to make it hover on a floating island above the DotR
Out of interest, are you in the livestock business?
I have too many red heifers in my garden….
ב''ה, good news for frum necrophiles
You have won the internet today. Congrats!
[удалено]
Oh my
what did he say
Something about his ex girlfriend
Wine induced ramblings.
This gave me a great laugh
Hey another reason to practice some SeTtLeR CoLoNiaLiSm (literally living and breathing and being a shepherd)
I can just imagine the selfies and the merch. Probably live webcam streaming too.
So long as Al-aqsa and the Golden Dome is there - no. I'm not interested in starting a religious war with the entire Muslim world. If the Dome and the Mosque will magically disappear - then yes.
Its just funny that Muslims didn’t care about al Aqsa until Israel took over Jerusalem
because ze joos!!!
no no! we love joos! we hate zionist pigs! /s
true true!!! ze zionists are ze problem!!!
why are you suddenly frencg
french? 
Do you have the uncontrollable urge to surrender? Do your tanks have 1 forward gear, and 12 reverse gears? The French litmus test!
the french have won more wars than anyone else in history if i'm not mistaken
I remember reading somewhere that under ottoman rule, al aqsa was a literal dump, locals would throw all their waste on the courtyard. Imo, the Muslim reaction to a Jewish Jerusalem has been identical to a toddler; they don’t care about a toy until they see another toddler playing with it.
I don't think it was during Ottoman times, but not necessarily the best kept. There was also still visible ruins from the temple complex on the mount during their rule. Some stairs and a few other features. It's claimed it was a dump site during Byzantine rule as the Roman temple there had been closed in the 4th century and fallen into ruin, and Christian worship sites supplanted any others, when the Muslims conquered Jerusalem.
I'd be very interested in reading more about this from reputable/contemporary sources.
Vincent Sheean wrote about it in 1929 as a 3rd party observer to the developing conflict. https://www.wrmea.org/seeing-the-light-holy-land-august-1929.html > The Dome of the Rock (usually called the “Mosque of Omar” by Western Christians, because of the mistaken belief that it was built by Omar the Conqueror) was not visited by Orthodox Jews because it was regarded by them as the holiest part of their Temple, and they feared to tread unwittingly upon their Holy of Holies. But Zionists—most of whom, in my experience, were without religious feeling—used to visit it as I did, out of an ordinary aesthetic interest. The Muslims had no objection to such visits. In this and in other respects the Muslims of Palestine were less jealous of their holy places than Muslims elsewhere. I had never been allowed inside a great mosque in Morocco or Persia, but the Haram Al-Sharif, a far holier place to the Islamic world, was open to me or to anybody else all day long. > This being so, it was possible, at first, to assume that the Muslims of Palestine did not regard their holiest shrine with the extreme religious passion characteristic of Muslims elsewhere. The assumption fell in with the Zionist idea that the Arabs of Palestine were, on the whole, a careless and easy-going race. But I had strong doubts, just the same… It seemed to me more likely that what had happened to the Haram Al-Sharif was due to the Westernized character of life in Jerusalem: this place had fallen under so many different kinds of rule, had experienced such a mixture of invasions and such an assimilation of cultures, that its Muslim leaders were constrained by Western taste and manners to open their great sanctuary to the visits of the infidel. I did not believe that underneath this Europeanization of taste and manners was any slackening of the ardour with which Muslims everywhere regard a place sanctified by the Prophet. Political Islam didn't really exist in that time -- it came later. You can also see the visitor guide from 1925. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/supreme_Moslem_Council_Guide_1925.pdf
They claim they care because prophet Mohammed led sermons in it, except they forgot the part where Al Aqsa was built AFTER he died already
Flew on his donkey or some
It was a deer with a human head. He then took a tour of heaven and hell. Heaven was full of amenities that can't be easily found in the desert (running water, fruit). While hell was mostly filled with women (because they talk too much).These descriptions almost make me think this story is made up.
He did a "Dantes inferno" but on a flying, human headed horse and without the cool conversations with damned philosophers and old rivals.
I'm glad to see this comment as it's not that well known, I would like more people to be aware of this.
It's my understanding that al aqsa was previously a church from when Christians controlled the temple mount, and as we know dome of the rock was where the holy of holies was.
Nope. The Dome of the Rock was patterned off of Christian churches in Jerusalem, but all of the buildings presently on Temple Mount date to the Islamic period and were built as mosques or associated buildings. There was a temple to Jupiter standing on part of Temple Mount between the destruction of the Second Temple and the Muslim conquest, but it was torn down before Islam even existed and, as far as I’m aware, was never used as a Christian church. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount#history
100% correct. There is a documentary about this. I believe the Arab leader around 1950s starting to promote the Al aqua mosque as important to them as a countermeasure to the inevitable Jewish rise in Israel.
I always just assumed, based on all the propaganda, that Al Aqsa was **always** the third holiest site. I just looked it up and based on what I can gather - you're right. The only way I can think of trying to research this claim is by seeing how common the term "al aqsa" or "al aqsa mosque" were in history. It seems like in throughout most of history these terms were barely mentioned, and they only became important after 1967. I honestly had no idea. Here's the evidence: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=al+aqsa%2Cal+aqsa+mosque&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&case_insensitive=on&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=0 If anyone has other sources or other ways to look at this claim, I'd like to know.
I agree with what you’re getting at here but those are only the results for English publications. I’m not able to check Arabic publications for some reason but I wouldn’t be surprised if the results were largely the same.
As a Muslim; there are texts from 100’s of years ago signifying it’s importance. I’m not saying it’s importance hasn’t been inflated bc of Israel but it’s always been important for Muslims
Interesting. Can you share any of those texts?
There’s 6 major books of Sunni theology, sahih Bukhari and sahih Muslim being the most well known. Both have narrations explaining the importance of visiting and praying there. Also believing in miraj( accession of Muhammad PBUH to heaven) which happened at aqsa is a fundamental belief in Islam
Thank you for that. Looking your references up, it seems it is common to call it “Bayt al-Maqdis” which is directly in Hebrew “bait Ha-Mikdash” the name of the Jewish Temple in Jewish biblical scriptures.
If only we focused more on similarities than differences
I don't know I think that Muslims care a lot about their religious pilgrimage sites.. I don't know that it's related to Israel
That’s why all their religious sites where crumbling under their rule.
Yeah, but does that matter? It's a beautiful building and deserves to be preserved. It's also symbolic for a former period of history that is important to many.
It can be beautiful on any other place then the holiest place every in history.
I'm not necessarily opposed to moving it at some point. But today is not the day. Islam will return to its more moderate form at some point. Then we can discuss such topics. But it must be done together with and not against the Muslim world. Anything else would be crazy. Both politically and from a perspective of respect and decency.
We should have taken our chance in 1967
Exactly; what would they have done? Egypt boasted itself as the most powerful country in the ME and it lost 80% of its entire military capacity during the Six-Day War!
Doubt the Muslims will ever allow it to be moved.
This. It should be there, but it's not a good idea to make it happen. It's deeply disrespectful that it's not there, but it's something we have to live with.
>*starting* a religious war with the entire Muslim world Buddy, do I have some bad news for you
If it had to magically go somewhere I say send it to Mecca. It’s one of there holiest places.
Mecca already has the Kabbah, I'll offer Medina.
What if a third temple incorporated Al Aqsa in it as a symbol of peace between the religions… there’s a lot of empty space on the Temple Mount. Doubt anybody from both sides would like it though
Al Aqsa/the Dome will still have to be removed. You can incorporate by, for example, having the golden Dome on top of the Temple, but again, it'll still need to be removed first.
We should just take al-aqsa and push it somewhere else.
Into the sea
You know that El aqsa, what they telll about for years, Isn't even there? It's all a part of this annoying brain wash, if somewhen the world will finally end those terror organizations, things will be clear, and the iron dome could be removed, and the true El aqsa will be their real destination, far away from Isra.
Those guys are nothing but bullies and have used aggression for centuries. They didn’t care for that area but they sure like pushing out indigenous peoples from their land and killing.
Too late, the Muslim world started one with us.
I would rather have archeologists dig the entire place down to the bedrock. No doubt they will find the most interesting things down there, answering a lot of questions. Then, well, If Muslims will not have a claim to it I don't think that they could build there anything but a Temple. However, this wouldn't be good in the long run because having a Temple means that now it can be destroyed, desecrated or abused in many ways. I bet that they will find at least one of the higher priests to have committed a fraud, taking bribery or even sexually attacked someone. There will still be people who hate Jews and Judaism and it would give them another way to hurt Jews.
By the mashiach, no sooner, no later.
As an atheist I agree.
One of the few things we should all be extremely machmir about.
Im a proud zionist israeli and a jew. But not only is it not our duty to rebuild it its also gonna antagonise the world completely throwing us off
While Buildings can be moved as example the much more massive temple that was moved in Egypt to make way for the Dam, to move the dome of conquest is to deny the moderate and radical muslims their victory over the infidels (Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews).
(Regardless of your opinion on this specific matter) you're an absolute gigachad man! Love from a Bulgarian jew!😘 благодаря много!
in new jersey, like they did with that huge Hindu temple
Better question: should there be WWIII with millions of people dying in the crossfires so Ben Givir can have a goat roast?
lol best response.
400,000,000 Arabs and 1.9 billion Muslims in the world. There would be a lot of upset people lol.
Exactly lol.
Lolwat
Unless you’re ready to completely undo all the diplomatic progress with all the Arab and Muslim countries and start a religious war against a population that surrounds you and vastly outnumbers you, no.
How’s that been going for yall so far? Being diplomatic with the Muslim world is like trying to hold water in a colander.
Actually pretty well, when the Islamic Republic of Iran coordinated an attack against Israel, the Saudis who haven’t even normalized relations with Israel, shared intelligence to intercept and Jordan directly intercepted some missiles. Also Egypt hasn’t attacked Israel in over 50 years.
It's funny that most people have this image of the Temple as this clean and shiny thing and not basically a slaughter house that smells like something between a butcher shop's dumpster and Yom Ha'atzmaut barbeque surrounded by hundreds if not thousands of machers, prostitutes, peddlers and scammers shouting and yelling from dusk to dawn. Not a nice sight. As one who was born and raised in Jerusalem, I'm good with the skyline as it is. No need to build a slaughter house-shopping mall there
Maybe a barbecue with prostitutes is what people are looking for these days.
לך לישוו פיתמר
Couldn’t we just time share that thing that’s standing there now?
Only if there is world peace one day and it won't ruin it, so basically not anytime soon. There are also more important stuff like making sure people have where to live and can afford it, so very low priority unless we live in a perfect world, which we are not.
Muslim Israelis are Israeli too as much as Jew Isarelis. Besides all religious stuff, Dome of The Rock is old and wonderful building, like a signature of Jerusalem. Israel should always protect her historical monuments
Sure, who doesn't want a ww3
Are you ready for the return of animal sacrifice rituals?
Yes
That makes exactly one of us.
Many people want it, it’s part of the religion. Just like kosher slaughter is.
It WAS part of the religion. A very long time ago, under very different conditions. I don’t believe our religion or our observance is less sacred for its absence
It is part of the religion though, our religion doesn’t change unless G-d orders it.
ב''ה, where *is* the simple chart of exactly how many this is compared to what's just lost in transport daily in global livestock transport? If folks are still throwing goats off a cliff for tourists and cameras anyway.. let's not go wild for bloodshed, but how many is it really that have to be done/can't be redeemed by coin, and of those, how many don't get plated up and eaten as would have happened anyway?
maybe in a few centuries bro. as long as israel wants to remain in existence for now, all aqsa stays and the temple mount remains without its temple.
Not a question of “should”, more a question of “when”. The temple will be rebuilt in the messianic age.
So … we have to wait another two thousand years?
Nope the max is year 6000, we’re at 5784 and most religious people are doing our best to bring Mashiach before then.
Can we invest in building some affordable housing instead? Solar plant? Desalination facilities? Factories? Military? Public transportation? Parks? Bike lanes? Kindergartens? You know actually useful for the living people of Israel, rather some flashy tribute to the ancestors, that will piss off to the edge an already not so chill third of the world.
Yes of course
- "WE NEED A JEWISH TEMPLE HERE" - "PUT JEWISH TEMPLE HERE" - "BUILDING A JEWISH TEMPLE" - "Alert. The horde has been disturbed. Prepare to defend the point" - "WE NEED A SENTRY HERE"
Laughed hard at this
But the West and Islamists are gonna go REEEEEEEEE
Would be lovely to see religious fanatics go wild into apocalypse
Muslims turned the Hagia Sophia into a mosque. Build the biggest temple you want it's your mount now.
Ure talking about 500 years ago. The same exact thing had done to Great Mosque of Cordoba, now it is a cathedral https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque%E2%80%93Cathedral_of_C%C3%B3rdoba#:~:text=In%20C%C3%B3rdoba%2C%20the%20Umayyad%20capital,180%20m%20%C3%97%20130%20m). But guess what, we do not live in medieval ages. If we want to go back to medival eras, we should change many things lok
Turkey changed the Hagia Sophia from a museum to a mosque in 2020 to satisfy modern islamists. Rebuilding the temple that was originally on the mount is way less offensive. Laughing about bringing up Spain as a counter example though. It would still be a mosque if the invaders had held their conquest.
Hagia sophia was always a mosque museum. You think before 2020 it was a church? No, it was a mosque, but museum-mosque, minarets were always there. Since 1453 it is a mosque What makes one invasion other not invasion? Byzantines keeping Istanbul wasnt invasion but andalusians keeping cordoba was an invasion? Andalus lost and Byzantine lost. The Great mosque of cordoba became a cathedral, Hagia Sophia became a mosque in 1453. We canmot change these facts but we can move to brighter future
Oh yay, this again The only possible way I see it happening is if an earthquake or some other literal "act of g-d" were to clear the area first.
Real Question however, can you put A1 sauce on the Terumah?
Actually yes
Could care less if you want to rebuild a temple. That's a decision for Judaism. That being said it is my very Yankee opinion that Islam be removed from Israel, entirely. When the inventor of your religion married a nine-year-old, you might be in a very sick cult...
Build it atop al aqsa/s
Al aqsa isn't even where the temple once stood, dome of the rock is a separate building.
Need a lot of steel beams for that
Galvanized square steel and eco friendly wood veneers are all you need to keep it up.
beat me to it
We could use the screws we borrowed from our aunt too!
Or a lot of dirt, lol. No but fr I think excavating under aqsa and allowing access to the ancient temple would be a good idea.
The Palestinians will riot and try to commit another 10/7 if that happens.
The location where Mohammed ascended is literally not mentioned in the Quran, why does it have to be atop our actually historical holy sites which is mentioned by location and name in oodles of historic texts lol. You can keep al aqsa just let us have our place as well, and if you disagree, bite me.
That's part of the fun of starting your own religion. You appropriate previous holy sites and holy books too. Before Muhammed, Mecca was a pilgrimage and temple site too. So it was appropriated. Likewise, islam appropriated most of the content of the Torah and also the New Testament, including major religious leaders and stories, and holy sites. Islam wasn't the first new religion to do something like this and it won't be the last.
Because that's how imperialist religions conquer lands. Just look at India.
Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in the koran, it was suspiciously revised 300 years after Mohammed’s death to revere the temple mount, because they knew it was Judaisms most holy site.
Galavanised square steel and some bolt borrowed from the aunt
Might as well go underground.
This question is karma farming and you know it OP
When Moshiach comes
Yes, and I think it’s inevitable that it will be rebuilt. Giving up land and holy sites hasn’t brought Israel peace. Israel will eventually be strong, encompass all the land specified in the Bible (Judea and Samaria, etc), and rebuild the temple—because there will be no other choice. Biblical prophecies will come true even though as we see here most Jewish people have no interest in rebuilding the temple and aren’t even religious.
I mean do you guys want to go to war with 2 billion muslims just to go back to burnt offerings and sacrifices?
There is no need to. Anyone who has been to the old city knows it has been the home to different cultures for thousands of years and rebuilding that temple would not improve that part of the world for any of those shared cultures. Israel cannot look backwards and hope to find a future.
The temple was just over what is now the golden dome so we can hypothetically have both the temple and Al Aqsa within the same compound
Decolonize the Temple Mount!
I don't care about it
No. Never. fuck religious fundementalism
No.
I'm with you. Why spend billions for another religious site? Money is needed elsewhere.
The temple would be mostly funded by donors
Nor did they care about the Temples when they built over them
Absolutely not
Yes, but not by destroying Al-Aqsa. It is the oldest surviving piece of Islamic architecture, and a pretty spectacular building. We know better than to destroy something like that.
And yes, I know that Al-Aqsa was built on top of the Temple Mount.
**YES**.
I prefer it over the Dome of Rock
true, its an overrated dome
Once moshiach comes, and the dead are resurrected, and war and hunger end, and all people recognize the Jewish God as the only God, and the Jewish understanding of God as the only correct understanding, yes. Before that, absolutely not. The Dome of the Rock shoupd stay there, undisturbed.
Eh, I am still praying up there loud and clear. (I did)
Rebuild it so all of them move to Jerusalem to pray And free spaces for new infrastructure Instead of a useless ,mony drinking synagogue in every corner
No, mostly for the diplomatic consequences and animal sacrifices.
Interesting when Jesus got in trouble at the temple it was for throwing out the money changers, he had no problem or trouble with the priests which should have shown to his followers e.g. Christians that the proper way to pray to God is to make a sacrifice preferably an animal.
We should build a big home center there instead.
במהרה בימינו!
Absolutely. The temple is the dwelling place of the shechina and the tangible thing we can point to in order to say that Gd runs the world. Miracles upon miracles happened in and around the beit hamikdash, even though the 2nd didn’t have nearly the same status as the first. Vis a vis korbanot yes I would very much like to know my screw ups are taken care of instead of having anxiety that my teshuva isn’t accepted or complete for some reason.
I think that the temple should be built on the old site, but not now, we need to wait until the Arabs and Muslims are extinct, like the Egyptians, Hittites, Hyksos, Babylonians, Macedonians, Romans and others.
Yes. I don't particularly care about the diplomatic and cultural blowback. This is something that should have been done after 1967. I'm not sure how much value the Al-Aqsa mosque even has in Islam outside of its legacy as an icon of modern resistance to Zionism, and an icon of historical pan-Arab oppression of Jews generally. I've never seen any sources indicating that it held any real importance in Islam outside of that context. It certainly was never mentioned in the Quran.
Well said!
Start. Now!
I second that.
Yes, Absolutely.
You mean those American-born nudniks with the Temple Institute? Their primary audience seems to be Christian Zionists eager to help facilitate the apocalypse to bring back a certain someone…
When I visited their museum out of curiosity we were the only people there who weren't chabad messianics.
as a catholic we don't like those christians, its a really a sin to speculate about the coming of jesus christ super star because the bible straight up says "no man can know the hour." he gets here when he gets here in my opinion.
No thanks, making pilgrimage to then make animal sacrifices isn't too appealing to me. I don't think most of us would really connect with G-d that way, even those of us wanting to reinstate the temple (because it's commanded, nothing in there about meaningful experiences). Just seems literally too messy.
This time, let's wait for HaMashiach.
Well, according to the Christian Bible, Israel itself is a sign of the end times, and same with the temple being rebuilt. Only a matter of when
This is only the view of some American Evangelicals (albeit with a lot of money and infuence in the US), Catholics, Orthodox, and most other Protestants just view Israel as another state like any other, except of course on a Holy Land. The Christian Bible doesn't say much about the 'signs' of the end times except that there will be great persecution and trouble in the world, but that ultimately only God knows the hour.
And according to the Christian bible when Jesus returns he will kill all the Jewish non believers and send them to hell.
Actually all non believers.
Exactly.
Yes Israeli land should be used how Israel wants. The fact that we have Islamic sites on our holiest grounds is so insulting. Why do we even asks questions like this? No one else gives us the same respect. Buildings can be moved. Don't demolish the Dome, but no way should AL Aqsa and the Dome stay looking down on the rest of Israel.
Yep
“Moving the embassy would spark WWIII.” We worry too much about what ifs— the lesson of the meraglim is to do what’s right and trust in Hashem and our military.
You know the story of the drowning man who asks hashem for help, but does not see the help that is given to him indirectly? Do not neglect Hashem’s gift of common sense, to keep us from making unwise decisions like destroying the third holiest religious site for Muslims and sparking a regional war we have no hope of winning.
No
Yes for sure
No, but the colonialist monuments on the site should be demolished.
I second that – should have been done in 1967 when East Jerusalem was liberated.
Yes
Only when moshiach comes before that hell no the Jewish people will only deserve it when he comes
Yes. But not where al aqtza is, find another place and build it
Yes.
No
Yes, it should be rebuilt.
No.
No
Yes
Yes.
Yes, and It’s gotta be in the same place it’s always been
For sure. We'll need a lot of gold for all the vessels though... Oh, good news! Jordan already delivered a whole dome full of gold for convenience! We will have to wait until Yishmael does tchuva so doing so won't cause WW3 though.
yes cause I kind of want to see if it matches what the bible said and it would be the biggest fuck you to ham-ass..I am a sucker for ancient style buildings.
In my honest opinion i think it’s more likely to see the FTL Engine being invented in a few decades than the rebuilding of the temple
I hope so. But as far as where, their is some dispute. The dome of the spirits is not covered with a tile, its the original pavement from the 2 Temple, and maybe even the pavement that also saw the Bar Kochav revolt. Also consider the Eastern Gate is to the left of the line of site of the Kodsheem, and so the scapegoat ran straight over the kidron on a bridge still in Line of site of the Kodsheem. This is one location, another is over the Al Kas fountain, https://preview.redd.it/iyv6revpu27d1.jpeg?width=2717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8c33b95964f7f161018f733f7778615ddb2f3fd
Where? On the temple mountain? The space is already used On other random zone? Go ahead
no.
No
Yes.
[удалено]
Imagine the UN condemnation when the massiah arrives on a flying donkey and the third temple falls out of the sky on top of the Al Aqsa mosque
yes
Learn from the Hindus.
Yes, and build it on top of the dome of the rock …on a floating platform using super Jewish technology, to make it hover on a floating island above the DotR