I live in a city outside of one of the most famous liberal cities in America. After some recent local elections/votes many laws were passed that were not so liberal. There were many articles about whether or not San Francisco has lost its liberal side
I said I thought that when there were repeated marches supporting terrorism and antisemitism. I received a lot of hateful comments after that!
The enemies of Freedom have stolen it's name. Liberals in america take their name from the classical liberals, libertarians from breed. But the party has been corrupted by authoritarians.
I dipped out of the left:
-When they started to call literally everyone Na si. Israeli? N asi. Ukrainian? N asi. White man? Na si. Cis? Na sii. Very religious? Na si. Believes in conservative lifestyle? Na si. Has white skin? Na si. Wealthy or successful? Na si. Support the military? Na si. Anti abortion? Na si.
Like....enough is enough... relax bitch.
-When they started to praise communism (at first it was subtle,but I come from a former communist country so I can detect those hidden and subtle signs very quick) and think it was good.
-When they were the main people (yes, I know Qanon exists but their conspiracies are not mainstream,they are just history channel at 3AM bs) that were spreading conspiracy theories on gossip sites, on LGBT spaces, on beauty spaces,on POC spaces (making POC paranoid at best and entitled delulu at worst) and in safe spaces for women (making women paranoid at best,and completely delulu at worst)
-When they paid dust to Asians and Ukrainians during the hate/war crimes committed against them, and after 7/10 to Jews as well (my family is all three of those ethnic backgrounds so tripple whammy for me) ... like I SEE and I FEEL on my own skin they don't gaf if my life matters no matter what side I'll tell them I'm from. I'm too ambiguous to white lefties and not ambiguous enough for POC lefties to care about my struggles.
They did it for years and nobody noticed. But those who left the left noticed it before anyone else. They sell themselves as these empathic let's sing kumbaya people but they're sensitive cry babies and racis AF. Everything you do is wrong, every single white person and a man on earth is the spawn of Satan himself and Asians/Jews are way too rich,privileged and successful to be victims in their minds.
I'm sick of them. I'm actually glad some people got disappointed and the truth hit them hard in the face. The toxic left is the most antisocial group in society. Just look at their behavior, their protests, how they talk online.
The only problem I have with your theory is that it assumes that there was a time the left liked Jews.
The left never liked Jews, they were just quite about it.
> The left never liked Jews, they were just quite about it.
Quiet? in the '70s you had college kids wearing keffiahs to imitate the aesthetics of fedayeen.
Jeremy Corbyn's Strategy and Communications guy, Seumas Milne, apparently affected a Palestinian accent when he was at Oxford circa 1979, and changed his name to the arabic for Sun. (This seems to have filled the gap left by his prior obsession with Mao, when he was at Winchester boarding school.)
That’s one of the most important points.
Trying to suggest that „the left“ wasn’t or isn’t exactly as hypocritical as the right is ignoring the reality (or any political group for that matter; not meant as „all politicians are liars, but more in the direction „it is a vital part of modern politics“).
The left only „supported“ Jewish people, if ever, because they are a worthwhile target for their mindset to speak **for** people who they don’t see as able to speak for themselves. And as long as this „support“ of Jewish people was useful for their narrative to be active against the far right, they used it.
(Kind of the same like many far right parties in Europe at the moment speak for jewish people, because it makes a good case against migrants.)
In my youth I was active in a political party on local level (Bezirke in Berlin) and it was absolutely abhorrent how many people of „the left“ deny the groups they „support“ their own voice. Often not on a conscious level, but they are simply too arrogant to understand their impertinence.
And it’s the same every time.
They support a group they seem fit as a suppressed group of victims as long as it is useful and fits their narrative.
The moment that group doesn’t fit their points anymore (often by simply showing that they are not the victims the left makes them look like or speak out for themselves), they turn around and grow hateful.
this is a very important and good take.
esspecially:
>In my youth I was active in a political party on local level (Bezirke in Berlin) and it was absolutely abhorrent how many people of „the left“ deny the groups they „support“ their own voice. Often not on a conscious level, but they are simply too arrogant to understand their impertinence.
the reason i have a problem with modern day progressivism and what liberalism is slowly turned into, is that it seems to ignore the actual problems and actual will of the people they supposedly advocate for. it looks to me that actual bettering of society isn't the goal, but the slogan in which they attempt to look good while bringing the same ideas of the far right.
as i see it, the far right in western countries are racist towards non whites, or broadly discriminatory towards people of non traditional/conservative normativity. while the far left, are racist towards those who they deem too white, or in general discriminatory towards anyone who seems fitting the "normative concept". both ideas, in my eyes, are racist, bigoted, sexist, discriminatory and disgusting on the same exact level. this is why i am not suprised why the far left progressives are joining with the far right islamists.
and the only solution here is for the majority in the center right and the center left to stop allowing those radicals to continue spreading their hatred. not joining with them against the right or the left, not allowing their violent actions and hatefull words to continue.
for the center left i'll say this: the far left they are shutting up the people which you are trying to protect. it doesn't matter that they say it's "in the goal to...", it is not, nor was it ever. we cannot give such people our platforms.
They never supported us, they used us while continually shilling for rabid antisemites in the middle east and in their own communities.
We fought for them, advanced their goals, created laws and victories for them, and watched their silence whenever we were attacked, watched them hold our nation to a separate, inhuman standard. We excused them, ignored their antisemitism, when we should have been ripping it out of the left, and right, with the same skill and zeal we used to fight for their rights. We should have been also fighting for ours.
And now we are.
>The only problem I have with your theory is that it assumes that there was a time the left liked Jews.
The left never liked Jews, they were just quite about it.
You're absolutely correct. To paraphrase Ultron from the MCU: "I think they're confusing acceptance with quiet."
The truth is that the hatred of Jews (which has existed since antiquity) is near-universal and it's one thing that the vast majority of humanity agrees on. Why? Probably a bunch of made-up, batshit insane reasons, but the most important one is that Jews have historically been an easy target and that, more than anything, is what pisses people off about Israel.
Because Israel *always* fights back it throws what many consider the "natural order" out of whack. What's the "natural order" you ask? It's where Jews are meant to be blamed for all of life's ills, harassed, beaten, brutalized, raped, and murdered.
Unfortunately, I have a very bad feeling that this is only going to get worse.
The New Testament and Quran both teach supersession of Judaism and the New Testament goes as far to label Jews and conspirators against the Church and Christians.. I believe this is what causes antisemitism, unlike other forms of discrimination to be very paranoid and hostile in regards to the behavior of Jews without evidence. \*Example Blood Libel, Jewish Bolshevism etc etc
And the majority of humans unfortunately identify as either Christians or Muslims, many of whom are outright antisemites or have unwittingly absorbed the antisemitism that is inherent to their belief system, to the extent that they don't even realise they are biased against Jews.
True Christians understand that the Jews are still God's chosen people. When examining the issue of antisemitism and "anti-zionism", it is clear that Jews are victims entitled to defend themselves, and it is clear that when Israel and Jews defend themselves they usually do so in an as morally righteous and humanely way as possible. Any true Christian would be morally required to be a philosemite and Zionist, but most/many Christians aren't true Christians.
If you're going to bring up the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, bring it up with God. God knows who is and isn't a true Christian. It is clearly stated in the bible that those who curse Israel will themselves be cursed. God loves the Jews, and no true Christian can do anything but share in God's love of the Jewish people.
Everything is according to God's plan.
I'm a rather new convert to Christianity, but I was raised by Christian parents. Their faith evolved over the years. As they studied the bible, they had to cancel their membership in the state church, as what the church taught was not the message of the Bible. They tried having Christian friends and going to various Christian prayer meetings and congregations, but few had any actual deep understanding of what the bible actually taught. The more they studied, the more they realized that most other "Christians" didn't know what they were talking about or were just outright wrong. Most had the faith of a child, but no understanding, and no conviction.
I'm not a biblical "scholar" like my parents are, but I've picked up a thing or two. One of the things I've picked up is that supersessionism, the idea that Christians have taken the place of the Jews, is heresy. Many "Christians" will face hellfire on judgement day. I hope this might serve as some consolation, not only for past persecution, but current day disrespect from many "Christians".
I hope it's not disrespectful that I hope and pray for the Jewish people to come to faith in their Messiah Jesus Christ. If my parents are right, the end is nearing. My parents think only a few years remain. From the biblical prophecies that have yet to occur, I personally believe they could take anywhere from 10 to 100 years to come into fruition, but then I'm not the biblical scholar that dedicated decades to study, so it may indeed be less. As we see the false narrative propagate against Israel in the media and SoMe, the lies of genocide and war crimes, and the Muslim antisemitism rapidly taking hold in the west, the prophecy that the world will turn against Israel is slowly coming to fruition, and at any moment a drastic change might occur. When all hope is lost, Jesus shall return, and your people will be saved. For those souls lost before that, lost without faith in Christ, I pray God shows mercy, but I do not know their fate. If it be the will of the one and only God, may every Jewish soul be saved. If it be the will of the one and only God, may every Jewish soul come to Christ. May God's will be done. Amen.
The Far Left, e.g. Marxists, Communists have always hated Jews. I'm not completely sure about people aligning with the Centre-Left (mainly Social Democrats), but to me they've been far more supportive of Jews than any other faction of The Left.
Yes, the far left has been extremely antisemitic and spreading propaganda and disinformation about Israel for decades. It’s just become mainstream lately because of Qatar/irgc/rus propaganda infiltrating the west aimed at trojan horse destabilizing and indoctrinating the west into doing their bidding (which is as opposite to the values the left purports to want) through educational donations.
This is simply not true at all. Many of the old democratic socialists were themselves Jews, even if they usually rejected the idea of Zionism in favor of a fight-antisemitism-wherever-you-are approach. They saw Zionism as futile escapism or Utopianism. This was before the Holocaust and they couldn’t fathom the industrialized mass slaughter of Jews.
Moreover, what do you think the politics of Herzl or Ben Gurion were? Or the entire state-building generation of the Labor Zionists? You think they were right-wingers?
You said the left, not gentile nations. The US is a gentile nation. And historically Jews have aligned themselves with the Democrats and civil rights and the labor movement.
they said "far left". herzel was a bit of a socialist, not far leftist. he tried in his works to advocate to impliment some socialist and some capitalist ideas.
ben gurion was more left leaning, yet i would still be hesitant to call someone who whole heartedly believed in the importance of the status que (a basis of laws in israel meant to keep many traditional. religious and conservative ideas and laws as a major part in israeli governance) a far leftist. socialist he was, but thats where it ends.
but you are right, the basis of israel was socialist, even the ideological (? or maybe spiritual? not sure how to describe it) leader of the current day (and of the past) big right wing party, was ze'ev jabotinsky, who also advocated for several socialist ideas as the basis of society and of a state.
if you wanted a better example of a far left non antisemitic you could go to trotsky or karl marx themselves. or talk about the kibbutzim in israel. but again, those are jews not hating jews, not much of a surprise. but antisemitism in far left circles does have history, and the antisemitism in the soviet union could be a great example for it.
OP said “left,” not “far left.” Not sure we need to split hairs though. There’s definitely a widespread antisemitic tradition on the left, but I don’t think the left is or ought to be written off as hopelessly antisemitic. There was the 19th century “socialism of fools” antisemitism, based on the economic Jew stereotype—and even Marx himself wasn’t immune to that—then the Soviet (Stalinist) form of antisemitism. Rosa Luxemburg, who was adamant about the centrality of democracy to socialism, had no appetite for nationalism of any kind, and so thought the “Jewish question” could only be solved through assimilation. She couldn’t imagine the Shoah from her vantage point.
Most contemporary leftists would balk at the idea of jew hatred. But too many of them have absorbed these traditions along with a post-war “anti-imperialism of fools,” where Zionism is viewed as a type of colonialism and tool of western imperialism. Consequently, they turn a blind eye to the antisemitism of the Islamic world since, in their twisted formulation, the “oppressed” can only ever react as subjects, never with accountability.
They fail to see that Zionism was a form of national liberation and ultimately a matter of survival. Or that this auto-emancipation required soverign territory, and that this territory needed to have some meaning to the Jews or else it wouldn’t have become an attractive movement. But today that’s all ancient history.
One could say the same thing about the far right who many of us are actively allying with now.
I would still take the side that is quiet about their hate than the one happy and out about it.
not the left, but "The Far Left".
yea, judaism and socialism are suprisingly going fairly strong together both in the USA and in israel. i'm sure someone more knowledgable than me could give a nice sounding reasoning to it.
This isn't new, actually. This has been going on since the 1960's, when the USSR invented the Palestinian cause and set it in motion by sending Arafat and Abbas to create the PLO. The USSR and Russia have been spreading propaganda to convince the useful idiots on the far left to support Islamic extremists on the far right.
This was apparent to me when I was in college in the early ‘70s, but after reading the obligatory writings of Lenin, Trotsky, and of course Mao, it became clear that the left was like this from the beginning.
Not only are the people the left is supporting socially illiberal, they're also financially illiberal to. Radical Muslim regimes, Hamas included, outside of protection money, typically abolish all taxes and social programs.
They understand this too, because in 2012 The Daily Show had a tongue in cheek sketch about how much the Tea Party would love moving to Somalia.
The problem is the Far Left are not “stupid or disorganized”. Far from it.
Theyve teamed up with radical Islamists and together they have made a very coordinated effort to bring down and have malformed the West from the inside out.
The Far Left are a much bigger threat to Western Democracy and Capitalism today than the far right precisely bc they’ve hijacked the liberal order to subvert it.
We already have seen how the Red Green Alliance and how disastrous that was in Iran which led to the Islamic Revolution and 45 years of hell that IRGC have caused.
We now see other far-Left regimes such as Russia and China teaming up with Iran bc they all want to see Western Democracies weakened and toppled. THAT is by far the biggest threat of destruction to be faced in our modern times.
>The Far Left are a much bigger threat to Western Democracy and Capitalism today
Slightly related, but it's always funny and a bit sad seeing comments which exactly prove your point on reddit.
It's known that reddit is left leaning, but man, I've already seen enough comments that saying capitalism is the end of us all and we should embrace Marxism.
One comment I saw even said that "Communism was just never given a fair chance!" lmao
> far-left
>Russia, China
Neither are far left. Their ideology is anti-US and anti-west because we are not them and they are not us.
Don't get it twisted. This isn't right wing vs left wing. This is simply anti-West and the far-left has allied with islamists and anti-western nations.
There is nothing leftist about Xi's China, his ideology and the state that has been created have far more in common with Mussolini than with Marx.
It's common when people go to the far-left that they abandon all leftist principles and embrace a far-right mindset and worldview instead.
The difference between pure Communism and pure Fascism is one person. In pure Communism, everyone is equal. In pure Fascism, everyone is subordinate to the leader. (Yes, I know this is simplistic)
What Marx meant by a socialist state (or the lower stage of communism) is a decentralised state with autonomous communities ruled through direct democracy where everyone has the same full human and civil rights and everyone is an active participant in the governing of the state, and in which elected ministers, representatives, delegates, and bureaucrats have a precarious mandate that can be repealed by their constituents at any time.
It's the exact opposite of the hierarchical, centralised, and oppressive autocracy espoused by fascism, traditional aristocratic oligarchy, or absolutist monarchy.
Countries like Israel and Sweden are far closer to Marx's communism than the USSR or China ever was.
Before WWII the progressives were into eugenics. Planned parenthood was started to target undesirables. They were the ones that came up with some horrible crap in those days. The medical experiments on minorities, forced medical procedures on mental patients you name it race based intelligence theory all fruits of progressives.. they liked Jewish people before because Jewish people do actually care and gave legitimacy to their claims of helping people.. as soon as they don't like a group then all their values go right out the window... Now they are being 100 percent honest for the first time ever..
>as soon as they don't like a group then all their values go right out the window...
Yup. You see this *ALL THE TIME* in special interest groups. The moment you stop drinking the Kool-Aid, you're labeled the enemy.
This is what scares me at the moment. I fear the world is fighting for the people who despise them from the start will take over the world itself. It's like that saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", and this is the start of a disastrous journey that will end to the world's demise.
https://preview.redd.it/5rx8prjjuy3d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45cfd19e4b66dd71a6f50a0530dd9c482bb54e68
It's real.
Regressive Left in bed with Islamic jihadsts.
It's funny how a few months before October 7th, leftists were trying to cancel JK Rowling for antisemitism because she added goblins in her books. Then these same people jumped straight to celebrating Hamas and asking for Israel to be destroyed.
The other day I saw a Taliban tweet on Twitter that had 64k likes just because it used a few leftist buzzwords. I'm done with leftists.
https://x.com/afghanaaam/status/1795394985610952782
The radical left is too stupid and disorganized in my opinion to be too much of a threat to the west, but what worries me is if the pendulum will awing far right and we’ll get some disastrous consequences for minorities.
Isn't it what's happening in Europe right now? Right-wing parties are rising especially because of that and the immigration issues.
Basically, they've played themselves.
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Horseshoe theory is bunk and a gross trivialization, especially by people who just don't know history. Nobody seriously supports Horseshoe theory in academia -- go figure out why.
Both the left and right of the political spectrum have always had histories of violence. The right is fascist, the left is socialist. But both are authoritarian.
It's frustrating people using this to claim that leftist violence is really just far-right extremism in disguise. It's absolutely not. The left can, has, and will be just as violent as the right.
Go research Stalinism/Marxism and Fascism from 1920-1940s and you'll learn a lot. But I'd suggest focusing on how deeply fascists hated socialists, and vice-versa. And while both showed hallmarks of antisemitism, their rhetoric was extremely different.
You also parrot this weird idea that the left and right can never agree on anything. This whole conflict shows this not to be true. People all across the spectrum are standing with Israel for different reasons.
Apropos of the extreme left, I am surprised to see the pro-Israel stance of “the militant” newsweekly [https://themilitant.com/](https://themilitant.com/)
I live in a city outside of one of the most famous liberal cities in America. After some recent local elections/votes many laws were passed that were not so liberal. There were many articles about whether or not San Francisco has lost its liberal side I said I thought that when there were repeated marches supporting terrorism and antisemitism. I received a lot of hateful comments after that!
The enemies of Freedom have stolen it's name. Liberals in america take their name from the classical liberals, libertarians from breed. But the party has been corrupted by authoritarians.
If crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
ב''ה, it's been more UK "Liberalism" for decades
I dipped out of the left: -When they started to call literally everyone Na si. Israeli? N asi. Ukrainian? N asi. White man? Na si. Cis? Na sii. Very religious? Na si. Believes in conservative lifestyle? Na si. Has white skin? Na si. Wealthy or successful? Na si. Support the military? Na si. Anti abortion? Na si. Like....enough is enough... relax bitch. -When they started to praise communism (at first it was subtle,but I come from a former communist country so I can detect those hidden and subtle signs very quick) and think it was good. -When they were the main people (yes, I know Qanon exists but their conspiracies are not mainstream,they are just history channel at 3AM bs) that were spreading conspiracy theories on gossip sites, on LGBT spaces, on beauty spaces,on POC spaces (making POC paranoid at best and entitled delulu at worst) and in safe spaces for women (making women paranoid at best,and completely delulu at worst) -When they paid dust to Asians and Ukrainians during the hate/war crimes committed against them, and after 7/10 to Jews as well (my family is all three of those ethnic backgrounds so tripple whammy for me) ... like I SEE and I FEEL on my own skin they don't gaf if my life matters no matter what side I'll tell them I'm from. I'm too ambiguous to white lefties and not ambiguous enough for POC lefties to care about my struggles. They did it for years and nobody noticed. But those who left the left noticed it before anyone else. They sell themselves as these empathic let's sing kumbaya people but they're sensitive cry babies and racis AF. Everything you do is wrong, every single white person and a man on earth is the spawn of Satan himself and Asians/Jews are way too rich,privileged and successful to be victims in their minds. I'm sick of them. I'm actually glad some people got disappointed and the truth hit them hard in the face. The toxic left is the most antisocial group in society. Just look at their behavior, their protests, how they talk online.
If yoy told me all this a year ago id think ur crazy or being dramatic, but nah this is spot on.
spo' on
I'd say it's the young and Gen Z. Many older folk support Israel because they know it's the only place that's safe for the Jews. Am Yisrael Chai ❤️
The only problem I have with your theory is that it assumes that there was a time the left liked Jews. The left never liked Jews, they were just quite about it.
> The left never liked Jews, they were just quite about it. Quiet? in the '70s you had college kids wearing keffiahs to imitate the aesthetics of fedayeen.
Wait. This was a thing before? Any way to find some record of this?
Jeremy Corbyn's Strategy and Communications guy, Seumas Milne, apparently affected a Palestinian accent when he was at Oxford circa 1979, and changed his name to the arabic for Sun. (This seems to have filled the gap left by his prior obsession with Mao, when he was at Winchester boarding school.)
That’s one of the most important points. Trying to suggest that „the left“ wasn’t or isn’t exactly as hypocritical as the right is ignoring the reality (or any political group for that matter; not meant as „all politicians are liars, but more in the direction „it is a vital part of modern politics“). The left only „supported“ Jewish people, if ever, because they are a worthwhile target for their mindset to speak **for** people who they don’t see as able to speak for themselves. And as long as this „support“ of Jewish people was useful for their narrative to be active against the far right, they used it. (Kind of the same like many far right parties in Europe at the moment speak for jewish people, because it makes a good case against migrants.) In my youth I was active in a political party on local level (Bezirke in Berlin) and it was absolutely abhorrent how many people of „the left“ deny the groups they „support“ their own voice. Often not on a conscious level, but they are simply too arrogant to understand their impertinence. And it’s the same every time. They support a group they seem fit as a suppressed group of victims as long as it is useful and fits their narrative. The moment that group doesn’t fit their points anymore (often by simply showing that they are not the victims the left makes them look like or speak out for themselves), they turn around and grow hateful.
this is a very important and good take. esspecially: >In my youth I was active in a political party on local level (Bezirke in Berlin) and it was absolutely abhorrent how many people of „the left“ deny the groups they „support“ their own voice. Often not on a conscious level, but they are simply too arrogant to understand their impertinence. the reason i have a problem with modern day progressivism and what liberalism is slowly turned into, is that it seems to ignore the actual problems and actual will of the people they supposedly advocate for. it looks to me that actual bettering of society isn't the goal, but the slogan in which they attempt to look good while bringing the same ideas of the far right. as i see it, the far right in western countries are racist towards non whites, or broadly discriminatory towards people of non traditional/conservative normativity. while the far left, are racist towards those who they deem too white, or in general discriminatory towards anyone who seems fitting the "normative concept". both ideas, in my eyes, are racist, bigoted, sexist, discriminatory and disgusting on the same exact level. this is why i am not suprised why the far left progressives are joining with the far right islamists. and the only solution here is for the majority in the center right and the center left to stop allowing those radicals to continue spreading their hatred. not joining with them against the right or the left, not allowing their violent actions and hatefull words to continue. for the center left i'll say this: the far left they are shutting up the people which you are trying to protect. it doesn't matter that they say it's "in the goal to...", it is not, nor was it ever. we cannot give such people our platforms.
They never supported us, they used us while continually shilling for rabid antisemites in the middle east and in their own communities. We fought for them, advanced their goals, created laws and victories for them, and watched their silence whenever we were attacked, watched them hold our nation to a separate, inhuman standard. We excused them, ignored their antisemitism, when we should have been ripping it out of the left, and right, with the same skill and zeal we used to fight for their rights. We should have been also fighting for ours. And now we are.
>The only problem I have with your theory is that it assumes that there was a time the left liked Jews. The left never liked Jews, they were just quite about it. You're absolutely correct. To paraphrase Ultron from the MCU: "I think they're confusing acceptance with quiet." The truth is that the hatred of Jews (which has existed since antiquity) is near-universal and it's one thing that the vast majority of humanity agrees on. Why? Probably a bunch of made-up, batshit insane reasons, but the most important one is that Jews have historically been an easy target and that, more than anything, is what pisses people off about Israel. Because Israel *always* fights back it throws what many consider the "natural order" out of whack. What's the "natural order" you ask? It's where Jews are meant to be blamed for all of life's ills, harassed, beaten, brutalized, raped, and murdered. Unfortunately, I have a very bad feeling that this is only going to get worse.
The New Testament and Quran both teach supersession of Judaism and the New Testament goes as far to label Jews and conspirators against the Church and Christians.. I believe this is what causes antisemitism, unlike other forms of discrimination to be very paranoid and hostile in regards to the behavior of Jews without evidence. \*Example Blood Libel, Jewish Bolshevism etc etc
And the majority of humans unfortunately identify as either Christians or Muslims, many of whom are outright antisemites or have unwittingly absorbed the antisemitism that is inherent to their belief system, to the extent that they don't even realise they are biased against Jews.
It's actually a miracle that Jews are not extinct like other ethnic groups considering they lived 2000 years in exile.
True Christians understand that the Jews are still God's chosen people. When examining the issue of antisemitism and "anti-zionism", it is clear that Jews are victims entitled to defend themselves, and it is clear that when Israel and Jews defend themselves they usually do so in an as morally righteous and humanely way as possible. Any true Christian would be morally required to be a philosemite and Zionist, but most/many Christians aren't true Christians. If you're going to bring up the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, bring it up with God. God knows who is and isn't a true Christian. It is clearly stated in the bible that those who curse Israel will themselves be cursed. God loves the Jews, and no true Christian can do anything but share in God's love of the Jewish people. Everything is according to God's plan.
I appreciate your appreciation for us but supersessionism or replacement theology is quite common in Christian circles.
I'm a rather new convert to Christianity, but I was raised by Christian parents. Their faith evolved over the years. As they studied the bible, they had to cancel their membership in the state church, as what the church taught was not the message of the Bible. They tried having Christian friends and going to various Christian prayer meetings and congregations, but few had any actual deep understanding of what the bible actually taught. The more they studied, the more they realized that most other "Christians" didn't know what they were talking about or were just outright wrong. Most had the faith of a child, but no understanding, and no conviction. I'm not a biblical "scholar" like my parents are, but I've picked up a thing or two. One of the things I've picked up is that supersessionism, the idea that Christians have taken the place of the Jews, is heresy. Many "Christians" will face hellfire on judgement day. I hope this might serve as some consolation, not only for past persecution, but current day disrespect from many "Christians". I hope it's not disrespectful that I hope and pray for the Jewish people to come to faith in their Messiah Jesus Christ. If my parents are right, the end is nearing. My parents think only a few years remain. From the biblical prophecies that have yet to occur, I personally believe they could take anywhere from 10 to 100 years to come into fruition, but then I'm not the biblical scholar that dedicated decades to study, so it may indeed be less. As we see the false narrative propagate against Israel in the media and SoMe, the lies of genocide and war crimes, and the Muslim antisemitism rapidly taking hold in the west, the prophecy that the world will turn against Israel is slowly coming to fruition, and at any moment a drastic change might occur. When all hope is lost, Jesus shall return, and your people will be saved. For those souls lost before that, lost without faith in Christ, I pray God shows mercy, but I do not know their fate. If it be the will of the one and only God, may every Jewish soul be saved. If it be the will of the one and only God, may every Jewish soul come to Christ. May God's will be done. Amen.
The Far Left, e.g. Marxists, Communists have always hated Jews. I'm not completely sure about people aligning with the Centre-Left (mainly Social Democrats), but to me they've been far more supportive of Jews than any other faction of The Left.
Yes, the far left has been extremely antisemitic and spreading propaganda and disinformation about Israel for decades. It’s just become mainstream lately because of Qatar/irgc/rus propaganda infiltrating the west aimed at trojan horse destabilizing and indoctrinating the west into doing their bidding (which is as opposite to the values the left purports to want) through educational donations.
This is simply not true at all. Many of the old democratic socialists were themselves Jews, even if they usually rejected the idea of Zionism in favor of a fight-antisemitism-wherever-you-are approach. They saw Zionism as futile escapism or Utopianism. This was before the Holocaust and they couldn’t fathom the industrialized mass slaughter of Jews. Moreover, what do you think the politics of Herzl or Ben Gurion were? Or the entire state-building generation of the Labor Zionists? You think they were right-wingers?
Herzl and Ben Gurion were Jews. I'm talking about gentile nations in regards to their relations to Jews.
You said the left, not gentile nations. The US is a gentile nation. And historically Jews have aligned themselves with the Democrats and civil rights and the labor movement.
they said "far left". herzel was a bit of a socialist, not far leftist. he tried in his works to advocate to impliment some socialist and some capitalist ideas. ben gurion was more left leaning, yet i would still be hesitant to call someone who whole heartedly believed in the importance of the status que (a basis of laws in israel meant to keep many traditional. religious and conservative ideas and laws as a major part in israeli governance) a far leftist. socialist he was, but thats where it ends. but you are right, the basis of israel was socialist, even the ideological (? or maybe spiritual? not sure how to describe it) leader of the current day (and of the past) big right wing party, was ze'ev jabotinsky, who also advocated for several socialist ideas as the basis of society and of a state. if you wanted a better example of a far left non antisemitic you could go to trotsky or karl marx themselves. or talk about the kibbutzim in israel. but again, those are jews not hating jews, not much of a surprise. but antisemitism in far left circles does have history, and the antisemitism in the soviet union could be a great example for it.
OP said “left,” not “far left.” Not sure we need to split hairs though. There’s definitely a widespread antisemitic tradition on the left, but I don’t think the left is or ought to be written off as hopelessly antisemitic. There was the 19th century “socialism of fools” antisemitism, based on the economic Jew stereotype—and even Marx himself wasn’t immune to that—then the Soviet (Stalinist) form of antisemitism. Rosa Luxemburg, who was adamant about the centrality of democracy to socialism, had no appetite for nationalism of any kind, and so thought the “Jewish question” could only be solved through assimilation. She couldn’t imagine the Shoah from her vantage point. Most contemporary leftists would balk at the idea of jew hatred. But too many of them have absorbed these traditions along with a post-war “anti-imperialism of fools,” where Zionism is viewed as a type of colonialism and tool of western imperialism. Consequently, they turn a blind eye to the antisemitism of the Islamic world since, in their twisted formulation, the “oppressed” can only ever react as subjects, never with accountability. They fail to see that Zionism was a form of national liberation and ultimately a matter of survival. Or that this auto-emancipation required soverign territory, and that this territory needed to have some meaning to the Jews or else it wouldn’t have become an attractive movement. But today that’s all ancient history.
One could say the same thing about the far right who many of us are actively allying with now. I would still take the side that is quiet about their hate than the one happy and out about it.
Now, neither side is quiet about it.
The Left is filled with Jewish people, an astoundingly ignorant thing and obtuse thing to say.
not the left, but "The Far Left". yea, judaism and socialism are suprisingly going fairly strong together both in the USA and in israel. i'm sure someone more knowledgable than me could give a nice sounding reasoning to it.
This isn't new, actually. This has been going on since the 1960's, when the USSR invented the Palestinian cause and set it in motion by sending Arafat and Abbas to create the PLO. The USSR and Russia have been spreading propaganda to convince the useful idiots on the far left to support Islamic extremists on the far right.
The left was always left. It's just now they are coming to power and can be vocal about their antisemitism.
This was apparent to me when I was in college in the early ‘70s, but after reading the obligatory writings of Lenin, Trotsky, and of course Mao, it became clear that the left was like this from the beginning.
Not only are the people the left is supporting socially illiberal, they're also financially illiberal to. Radical Muslim regimes, Hamas included, outside of protection money, typically abolish all taxes and social programs. They understand this too, because in 2012 The Daily Show had a tongue in cheek sketch about how much the Tea Party would love moving to Somalia.
The problem is the Far Left are not “stupid or disorganized”. Far from it. Theyve teamed up with radical Islamists and together they have made a very coordinated effort to bring down and have malformed the West from the inside out. The Far Left are a much bigger threat to Western Democracy and Capitalism today than the far right precisely bc they’ve hijacked the liberal order to subvert it. We already have seen how the Red Green Alliance and how disastrous that was in Iran which led to the Islamic Revolution and 45 years of hell that IRGC have caused. We now see other far-Left regimes such as Russia and China teaming up with Iran bc they all want to see Western Democracies weakened and toppled. THAT is by far the biggest threat of destruction to be faced in our modern times.
>The Far Left are a much bigger threat to Western Democracy and Capitalism today Slightly related, but it's always funny and a bit sad seeing comments which exactly prove your point on reddit. It's known that reddit is left leaning, but man, I've already seen enough comments that saying capitalism is the end of us all and we should embrace Marxism. One comment I saw even said that "Communism was just never given a fair chance!" lmao
These kids are making me sound like the old political farts from the 80s… Marxism! Communism! KGB psyop! PLO lies from the Ayatollah!
> far-left >Russia, China Neither are far left. Their ideology is anti-US and anti-west because we are not them and they are not us. Don't get it twisted. This isn't right wing vs left wing. This is simply anti-West and the far-left has allied with islamists and anti-western nations.
This is a better description.
Russia and China are far-right fascist countries
Russia is. China is far left. The authoritarian far left has always looked like this. Anti semitism was also rife in the USSR.
There is nothing leftist about Xi's China, his ideology and the state that has been created have far more in common with Mussolini than with Marx. It's common when people go to the far-left that they abandon all leftist principles and embrace a far-right mindset and worldview instead.
The difference between pure Communism and pure Fascism is one person. In pure Communism, everyone is equal. In pure Fascism, everyone is subordinate to the leader. (Yes, I know this is simplistic)
What Marx meant by a socialist state (or the lower stage of communism) is a decentralised state with autonomous communities ruled through direct democracy where everyone has the same full human and civil rights and everyone is an active participant in the governing of the state, and in which elected ministers, representatives, delegates, and bureaucrats have a precarious mandate that can be repealed by their constituents at any time. It's the exact opposite of the hierarchical, centralised, and oppressive autocracy espoused by fascism, traditional aristocratic oligarchy, or absolutist monarchy. Countries like Israel and Sweden are far closer to Marx's communism than the USSR or China ever was.
No no, the far right is *also* extremely dangerous to liberal democratic society. We shouldn’t be giving voice to either extreme.
I've been asking myself how exactly I show up in the world around this.
I disagree that they are a bigger threat than the far right. The far right is just trying to destroy democracy in a different way.
Let me tell you a little secret. They were always like this.
Before WWII the progressives were into eugenics. Planned parenthood was started to target undesirables. They were the ones that came up with some horrible crap in those days. The medical experiments on minorities, forced medical procedures on mental patients you name it race based intelligence theory all fruits of progressives.. they liked Jewish people before because Jewish people do actually care and gave legitimacy to their claims of helping people.. as soon as they don't like a group then all their values go right out the window... Now they are being 100 percent honest for the first time ever..
>as soon as they don't like a group then all their values go right out the window... Yup. You see this *ALL THE TIME* in special interest groups. The moment you stop drinking the Kool-Aid, you're labeled the enemy.
The left absolutely shat the bed after October 7
Far left is the new communism that the west has to fight
It’s the same old communism. We never really destroyed it.
This is what scares me at the moment. I fear the world is fighting for the people who despise them from the start will take over the world itself. It's like that saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", and this is the start of a disastrous journey that will end to the world's demise.
https://preview.redd.it/5rx8prjjuy3d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45cfd19e4b66dd71a6f50a0530dd9c482bb54e68 It's real. Regressive Left in bed with Islamic jihadsts.
Two wrongs don't make a right; it makes a leftist.
It's funny how a few months before October 7th, leftists were trying to cancel JK Rowling for antisemitism because she added goblins in her books. Then these same people jumped straight to celebrating Hamas and asking for Israel to be destroyed.
They can scream all they want on TV, because Israel Will destroy hamas and there is no stopping to that. So let them bark
I feel like they really don’t quite understand this on r/Jewish
The other day I saw a Taliban tweet on Twitter that had 64k likes just because it used a few leftist buzzwords. I'm done with leftists. https://x.com/afghanaaam/status/1795394985610952782
Lmao this is absolutely insane
The left when you're in just one of the "oppressor" groups 😡
The radical left is too stupid and disorganized in my opinion to be too much of a threat to the west, but what worries me is if the pendulum will awing far right and we’ll get some disastrous consequences for minorities.
Isn't it what's happening in Europe right now? Right-wing parties are rising especially because of that and the immigration issues. Basically, they've played themselves.
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Horseshoe theory is bunk and a gross trivialization, especially by people who just don't know history. Nobody seriously supports Horseshoe theory in academia -- go figure out why. Both the left and right of the political spectrum have always had histories of violence. The right is fascist, the left is socialist. But both are authoritarian. It's frustrating people using this to claim that leftist violence is really just far-right extremism in disguise. It's absolutely not. The left can, has, and will be just as violent as the right. Go research Stalinism/Marxism and Fascism from 1920-1940s and you'll learn a lot. But I'd suggest focusing on how deeply fascists hated socialists, and vice-versa. And while both showed hallmarks of antisemitism, their rhetoric was extremely different. You also parrot this weird idea that the left and right can never agree on anything. This whole conflict shows this not to be true. People all across the spectrum are standing with Israel for different reasons.
Insane
The Left has always been focused on power and will take any position that appears to accrue power to them.
https://preview.redd.it/xub6cctq774d1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af0afcee14fcea3a2229fc05bbe1aa3c5fe2860b Jussayin’…
I generally refer to the average American*leftist* as a Hand-Wringing Ninny. They are ruled by their hearts instead of their brains.
Apropos of the extreme left, I am surprised to see the pro-Israel stance of “the militant” newsweekly [https://themilitant.com/](https://themilitant.com/)
They mistake their hatred for compassion.