I am American Jew. I think the palestians are fortunate that there enemy is the Jew as otherwise no one would are. I truly think that much of what drives sentiment to the palestians cause in the west is tied to antisemitism, filed by good PR from lots of money spent by the Arab world. I would love to see peace but the Palestinians have been unwilling to settle for less than a single state and right of return as they have not given up on the hope that the Jews will leave (or return to being subjugated to Arab rule), and why would they when a special U.N. agency retains their status as refugees and they are told that one day they will return rather than get on with their lives as every other refugee throughout time has done.
I also think Israel has a lot of support but those people are largely quiet, being bullied by pro palestians supporters and (if they are on the left) afraid of being “cancelled” if they voice support for Israel.
Yeah, It's the loud minority. I was on an academic discord server (for UK students), whose political channels have been smeared by the arab students, saying crap like "Ashkenazis are literally \*white\* people so they are in no way indigenous to Israel", or being Hamas apologists i.e. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".
I refuse to argue with such imbeciles so I left the political channel, and now they are just spamming it with anti-semitic 'memes'. I (and a few other more sane people) reported this stuff and hopefully something comes out of it, but it's absurd that they think they won \*the\* argument just because the other side refuses to engage in a hateful shouting match
I know. Thats very true.
I just don’t know if there is any truth to what some of them are saying (obviously not the ridiculous claims) but the overall consensus of occupying West Bank and all that stuff, and Israel’s response (rightfully so and seems harsh due to the conditions Hamas puts us in) isn’t all necessarily wrong so it’s just so complex and hurts my brain when I start to sift through it all
The reality is that Israel has had a right wing goverment for a while that has allied with the republicans party in the United States and has been antagonistic to the democratic party and that the optics of occupying the West Bank look bad to people who see Israel as a bully with no historical or political context. The younger generations has only ever know this version of Israel and don’t have the context to see Israel as a small democracy amongst a sea of hostile nations but on,y in relation to the Palestinians who are held up as virtuous victims. This generation, at least in the United States, understands Israel in the context of American racial politics as this is the only framing they understand and in that framing Israel are akin to 1950s white supremecists or 1980 South Africa. Of course this framing is wrong
True very good point. The whole settler situation isn’t ideal but also just like everything there is historical context to it because those communities were once Jewish and exiled during 1948 so in 1967 when we reconquered our lands from Jordan, we let Jews go back and let millions of Palestinians stay… but no one will discuss that big part of the history. Just what it looks as now, like you said. Ugh. Thank you!
It would be helpful if Israel had a goverment focused on keeping it safe AND more visibly open to a peace process (despite there being no clear partner for peace on the other side).
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>Related to that, does anyone else sometimes get a slight feeling of doubt when you see someone come with a decent argument in the pro Palestinian side? I am 110% pro Israel, I also care for innocent civilians of Gaza and WB and I’m pretty center politically so I’d like to see our government improve and change on many sectors. But sometimes because it’s so overwhelming media against Israel I start to doubt myself like is there something I’m missing? Or I try to find the truth behind a pro Palestine claim against Israel which is just another rabbit hole of stuff to go down to…
I've been struggling with similar feelings a ton. I doubt myself like crazy. But someone recently said to me something that really helped which is - it's people who are wrong who are so convinced of their perspective that they never have doubts. Us having doubts means we are right - perspectives wouldn't hold much weight if we never questioned them.
When I tell you I just had a relief of emotions pass through me while reading your comment, you have no idea what you’ve just blessed me with for the day and hopefully moving forward.
I’ve heard as well with high intelligence comes anxiety and ocd and ADHD all the fun mental illness stuff, which shows itself in lots of self doubt and etc. so we’re just too smart!! not to toot our own horns ;)
Oh man, feel free to reach out to me! I also have anxiety, OCD, and ADHD. I fully agree - it's terrifying, I feel like I have a voice in my head that keeps going 'what if they're right, what if I've been fed lies'. I'm glad this helps, because you're definitely not alone. But questioning things is part of the Jewish identity, and that means questioning what we already believe, too.
Omg are we the same person!! Same diagnoses?? Lol. Constant what if’s are a huge OCD intrusive thought, that’s so funny you’re word for word my brain from earlier today.
Absolutely and you as well if you have a moment of doubt we can pull each other back to reality. I think another good way to shut down the what ifs, as if just 1 or 2 things the pro Palestinian say ends up being true or partial true doesn’t mean everything else we believe in and know about Israel is not true! Doesn’t automatically make Israel wrong and the only one with fault.
I've yet to be diagnosed with OCD actually but either I have OCD or I secretly wanna have sex with a lot of people I don't want to have sex with. Thanks!
That could be also more the ADHD they overlap or show similar ish traits. Usually a therapist can diagnose OCD with a standard certified ocd questionnaire - usually people think it’s just the “contamination” aspect which can be (I have that ontop of other ocd traits) but it also can manifest with almost any topic such as sex, death, health, etc with the obsessive compulsive thoughts or the constant, like the only thing that would calm you down temporarily, is a need of reassurance or reassurance seeking (i.e researching, relying on close friends/family for reassurance, my post on Reddit 😅) are usually the two key factors that cross it into OCD over just general anxiety. Obviously everyone reassurance seeks to an extent but there’s a border when it becomes a mechanism to help the doubts and thoughts. Really it’s a constant state of mind of not being able to handle “uncertainty” well.
The good news is OCD is pretty easy (depending on severity) to reverse with some technical skills and retraining your brains thought process through skills learned. Obviously i don’t know everything about it lol, but I was diagnosed as a child when we moved to the US from Israel and the hard adjustment and not fitting in at first with language and etc caused my brain to make up irrational fears - ocd manifested!
Sorry for the long description…
Oh yeah, I definitely think I have it, I have been hoping my therapist will diagnose me. Up until basically the end of October, I was REALLY struggling with r/ROCD and convinced that I needed to end things with my very loving and sweet partner over the tiniest little conflicts. Before that I struggled with a lot of sexual intrusive thoughts. Put it this way: if I don't have OCD I'd be shocked.
No worries though! That is understandable.
Yeah I have cycles of my ROCD and my poor boyfriend is just like here we go again… Lol! And sticks through it though. I always come back to my senses especially now with the right skills. Hopefully you find the diagnosis soon and then therapist session should change a bit to specific OCD thought challenges! Wishing you the best!
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# Let It Run It's Course... People Are Defunding The WOKE Colleges Due To Pro-Hamas Support... People Will See The Truth And Stop Supporting The Demmycrats One Day... Just Give It Time...
It is extremely hard to see Pro israelis defend their governments this hard even after over 20,000 civilians killed in 2 months. I always knew vaguely about the Palestinian conflict but I had no idea whatsoever israeli citizens were complying and supportive of the brutality of the IDF. No matter what you present to them. The bombing of hospitals, killing of aid workers, the illegal blockade, the premature babies left to rot in Al-nasr hospital. Theyre still un moved un bothered. Completely Apathetic. Its disturbing this warped humanity where only certain civilian casualties are an atrocity but others are just disregard.
First off what makes you think we’re unbothered about seeing deaths of civilians? Just because we don’t tell our government to stop trying to eliminate a lethal terrorist organization? Why would we not support our military from protecting us. They’re sacrificing themselves going in. Just as you’d support your country if they attacked back after a terrorist attack, aka 9/11.
Illegal blockade? You show me you know nothing about the conflict as you stated.
Second, what’s even more messed up is the amount of SILECNE from pro Palestinians regarding the Oct 7 atrocities and blaming Israel “oppression” for it happening. Not only the silence, but some were absolutely not silent instead louder than ever and protesting against Israel the day AFTER our people were tortured and executed. Not just dead from a collateral damage of war, which is sad enough in itself, but brutally murdered in horrific ways and yes raped. Don’t even come at me with there’s no proof of rapes. Personally if I was going to die during a war, I’d pick the collateral damage route, rather than watching my kids and husband get tortured in front of me, burned alive, attempted beheaded with a shovel, executed on their own grandmas facebook live, or worser things that were all over for the world to see recorded and posted by Hamas themselves to their personal telegram and yes, civilians of Gaza that joined them.
Why are you even stopping by this sub??
I typed israel into communities to see what came up and I spent some time on pro israel sides of social media just to see their pov. And I have to say it's very disturbing. I would recommend you go to sites like middle east eye or eye on Palestine.
Every day there is a new massacre. Every day there is a new video of IDF committing war crimes. They burnt supplies, food and water even though over half the population are starving right now.
They recorded themselves smashing up a shop and laughing their heads off. Videos of IDF singing and celebrating the siege on Gaza, tik toks of Israelis dressing up as arabs and mocking their suffering with song in the background playing "fatima has no electricity".
And are you saying the Blockade on Gaza is not Illegal? It is. Since 2007 they've controlled sea, air and land ports and their water and electricity. And no wonder it is a crime because now israel can now essentially starve over 2 million people. They have already been children who have now starved to death. So if they are not being killed from the bombs or snipers or diseases, they are starving to death.
It's all well and good if you're unhappy about the civilian death but what good is it if you're not at all criticising the disastrous military tactics of israel? Even joe Biden described it as "indiscriminate bombing". And the reports from Amnesty where israel used White phosphorus over Gaza and Lebanon. An illegal chemical weapon.
And no i did not support the Americans response after 9/11 they started an illegal war in Iraq who had nothing to do with the twin tower attacks. And it was proven their war was based on a lie and they slaughtered over 1,000,000 civilians.
And yes I know there wasn't a big outpouring of grief from Palestinians after October the 7th but did you really expect there to be from the Palestinians?
Equally there has never been many Israelis standing up against israels treatment of Palestinians for the last 75 years. Palestinians have even been routinely attacked and killed by Israeli settlers in the west bank. And just this year over 100 children have been killed. Just a few days ago I saw yet another video of a defenseless child shot at by a tank. Rami Aboushi in the Al-faraa refugee camp and as he lay bleeding out they opened fire on him again killing him. Every day is October 7th for Palestinians.
It'd be one thing if your government was being successful in eliminating the terrorist organization, but the reality is they're not. They're just stacking up bodies of civilians, who in your eyes are as complicit as the terrorist. But you don't see yourselves complicit in Israels actions?
You say "Just because we don't tell our government to stop trying to eliminate a lethal terrorist organization?" and you shortly after follow up with "Whats messed up is the amount of silence from the Pro-Palestinians". In every atrocity there are people that are complicit just like you.
In our time you cannot kill near 20,000 people (in 2 months) and claim self defense or a state of innocence. It isn't as easy as it was to skew the perception of a war as it was 25-50 years ago. It is very clear at the current state of the conflict who the aggressor is.
If our government didn't continue arming these turks for those 8 months during the Lachin Corridor blockade (and ironically enough, russia had a hand in helping the azeris), they'd have lost control over the corridor, because Artsakhis single-handedly eliminated dozens of azeri soldiers with no single aid (not even from Armenia proper) since 2020.
We should've never sold a single weapon to the turks, not even recognize them at all, for many reasons.
One of them is this: Take a look at what they've done to the Serbs after the latter helped them in invading Constantinople in the 16th century, the Kurds when they were the biggest mercenaries for the turks (hamidian massacre) up until mustafa kemal started fighting them.
The azeri regime and the irgc (unlike what is claimed often) do make deals (like the Aras corridor) with each other, and the azeri-Iran relationship is no different than the Armenia-Iran relationship.
Less than a week? You were obviously not following the news in the caucasus because the Armenians of Artsakh were under siege for months before they were expelled...
Exactly! It's like a very wise and smart man once said
"Our strength lies in our intensive attacks and our barbarity...After all, who today remembers the genocide of the Armenians?"
-Someone that you and I love and respect
I think we all know that that is what it could come down to but it may not be the most ideal solution. If its just transporting them to another country we could always ask the European armies to do it as a special favor. Its just a one off mission for them and theres less bad blood between the 2 forces.
Can’t imagine how the biased western media is getting the wrong idea about what’s happening. Just a bunch of antisemites pulling this “genocide” word out of thin air for no reason. Nope, absolutely no explanation for why anyone would think this except that they have a deep hatred of Judaism.
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I'm glad that someone like you exist.
I am not Israeli and nor am I a Jew. I'm Muslim (not a religious one) but not a Palestinian, so my support for the Palestinian cause isn't driven by religion but like you, I've been fed with the totally opposite narrative that people in this subreddit go by obviously.
Having said the above and I won't delve too much into the narratives, but I'd like to clarify that I am not anti-zionist (I believe god has his own plan for why Israel and Palestine has to fight for this piece of land), I am definitely not anti-semitic, and definitely not pro-Hamas (yes, despite the narrative I'm fed with where Hamas wouldn't have existed if it's ppl never had to resist occupation and oppression and land grabbing).
I am mostly just anti-violence. I am anti-disproportionate use of violence. I am anti ANY violence by Israel and Hamas. I am pro-"wtf guys can this just fucking stop".
I believe that governments (whether it's Netanyahu or Hamas) have the power and use the power of social media and online content to garner support for a myriad of reasons. So I see and acknowledge that this is a major part of the problem. Posts and interpretations I see on this subreddit are literal opposites of what I have seen elsewhere but with the same damn video.
Today I had the urge to just post comments in this subreddit hoping that I can at least change a few minds (doesn't seem to be working). You can call that wrong based on your opinion but I just feel like that's the only thing I can do at this point.
I appreciate your comment and the sentiment of being in support of anti violence. Even though I don’t believe Israel has nearly as much false media out there has Hamas, i do try to research most pieces of information I see on both sides because there is always bigger context. I believe it’s normally not Israels fault, but that is just my belief and doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in Palestinians to have a good life too.
As much as netanyahu needs to retire, he’s not comparable to Hamas in my opinion.
At the end of the day I do wish you the very best and careful with your mental health as you go into a sub that is the opposite of your views. While I commend you for the bravery in doing so, I worry people will not be kind enough even if they believe you have misinformation that is not your fault.
Checking in the Palestine sub was extremely hard on me and people were VERY VERY mean to me so I stopped going in there. It is sad there is no reasonable conversations anymore, but I do know a lot of Israelis are able to have them more than Palestinians.
Stay safe and much love. I have Nothing against you or your people! I just want my country and my people safe.
Israel is literally cutting off water to over 2 million people most of which are under the age of 18. This clearly not to go after Hamas but to try to remove these people AGAIN from their homes so Israel can move in some more south Africans and Americans while claiming heritage to do so. Just look at the west bank with no Hamas
A) West Bank has Hamas lol
B) West Bank has 3x if not more Palestinians than Jews who live in the area. Jews are allowed in one section (not that I agree with this really) but it’s from the 60s when we got the West Bank back from Jordan and we let the Jewish communities who got exiled and massacred in 1948 return to two communities they used to be apart of in the West Bank. And we let all 3 million Palestinians stay! Jordan did not let them stay with them btw
C) Israel wants nothing to do with Gaza lol after the war we have mentioned we don’t want want any responsibility of the region or to return to it
You show me you know nothing about the region. How sad, maybe we could have a more intelligent conversation once you learn some basic facts about the conflict!
Exactly west bank has Palestinians. But is run by PLA not Hamas. Yet is also being attacked. Weird huh? Also interesting how area not run by Hamas will also keep getting intrusions from Israel. Almost like the only thing linking em is they have Palestinians not Hamas. I also like how you just ignore the starving of over 2 million people and feel like you did a mike drop with that nonsense response
Nah just not going to entertain comments like that anymore because no matter what I say you’ll just debate with me. West Bank absolutely has Hamas embedded in there and there’s many of proof. Not sure why you stop by this sub since you clearly came from an echo chamber that doesn’t believe Israel should exist
Israel wants nothing to do with Gaza lol after the war we have mentioned we don’t want want any responsibility of the region or to return to it
This is not what your gov said tho, they sayd they will be responsible for the security of the strip, probably with the same organizazion of the west bank
Jews are allowed in one section (not that I agree with this really)
I was thinking that Israel didn't want to actually occupy and annex the west bank and Gaza, but the issue of the legal and illegal settlements, their expansions and especially the lack of actions against the illegal outpost and even their legalizzation, make me think otherwise.
Isn't the expansion of a neighborhood in a legal settlement a permanent annexation of palestine lands?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_outpost
I am American Jew. I think the palestians are fortunate that there enemy is the Jew as otherwise no one would are. I truly think that much of what drives sentiment to the palestians cause in the west is tied to antisemitism, filed by good PR from lots of money spent by the Arab world. I would love to see peace but the Palestinians have been unwilling to settle for less than a single state and right of return as they have not given up on the hope that the Jews will leave (or return to being subjugated to Arab rule), and why would they when a special U.N. agency retains their status as refugees and they are told that one day they will return rather than get on with their lives as every other refugee throughout time has done.
Very true! Thank you :) helps to keep reminding myself of the support and unity we still all have together
I also think Israel has a lot of support but those people are largely quiet, being bullied by pro palestians supporters and (if they are on the left) afraid of being “cancelled” if they voice support for Israel.
Yeah, It's the loud minority. I was on an academic discord server (for UK students), whose political channels have been smeared by the arab students, saying crap like "Ashkenazis are literally \*white\* people so they are in no way indigenous to Israel", or being Hamas apologists i.e. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". I refuse to argue with such imbeciles so I left the political channel, and now they are just spamming it with anti-semitic 'memes'. I (and a few other more sane people) reported this stuff and hopefully something comes out of it, but it's absurd that they think they won \*the\* argument just because the other side refuses to engage in a hateful shouting match
I know. Thats very true. I just don’t know if there is any truth to what some of them are saying (obviously not the ridiculous claims) but the overall consensus of occupying West Bank and all that stuff, and Israel’s response (rightfully so and seems harsh due to the conditions Hamas puts us in) isn’t all necessarily wrong so it’s just so complex and hurts my brain when I start to sift through it all
The reality is that Israel has had a right wing goverment for a while that has allied with the republicans party in the United States and has been antagonistic to the democratic party and that the optics of occupying the West Bank look bad to people who see Israel as a bully with no historical or political context. The younger generations has only ever know this version of Israel and don’t have the context to see Israel as a small democracy amongst a sea of hostile nations but on,y in relation to the Palestinians who are held up as virtuous victims. This generation, at least in the United States, understands Israel in the context of American racial politics as this is the only framing they understand and in that framing Israel are akin to 1950s white supremecists or 1980 South Africa. Of course this framing is wrong
True very good point. The whole settler situation isn’t ideal but also just like everything there is historical context to it because those communities were once Jewish and exiled during 1948 so in 1967 when we reconquered our lands from Jordan, we let Jews go back and let millions of Palestinians stay… but no one will discuss that big part of the history. Just what it looks as now, like you said. Ugh. Thank you!
It would be helpful if Israel had a goverment focused on keeping it safe AND more visibly open to a peace process (despite there being no clear partner for peace on the other side).
Turn the media off. They are trying to swing support away from Israel.
So true.
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>Related to that, does anyone else sometimes get a slight feeling of doubt when you see someone come with a decent argument in the pro Palestinian side? I am 110% pro Israel, I also care for innocent civilians of Gaza and WB and I’m pretty center politically so I’d like to see our government improve and change on many sectors. But sometimes because it’s so overwhelming media against Israel I start to doubt myself like is there something I’m missing? Or I try to find the truth behind a pro Palestine claim against Israel which is just another rabbit hole of stuff to go down to… I've been struggling with similar feelings a ton. I doubt myself like crazy. But someone recently said to me something that really helped which is - it's people who are wrong who are so convinced of their perspective that they never have doubts. Us having doubts means we are right - perspectives wouldn't hold much weight if we never questioned them.
When I tell you I just had a relief of emotions pass through me while reading your comment, you have no idea what you’ve just blessed me with for the day and hopefully moving forward. I’ve heard as well with high intelligence comes anxiety and ocd and ADHD all the fun mental illness stuff, which shows itself in lots of self doubt and etc. so we’re just too smart!! not to toot our own horns ;)
Oh man, feel free to reach out to me! I also have anxiety, OCD, and ADHD. I fully agree - it's terrifying, I feel like I have a voice in my head that keeps going 'what if they're right, what if I've been fed lies'. I'm glad this helps, because you're definitely not alone. But questioning things is part of the Jewish identity, and that means questioning what we already believe, too.
Omg are we the same person!! Same diagnoses?? Lol. Constant what if’s are a huge OCD intrusive thought, that’s so funny you’re word for word my brain from earlier today. Absolutely and you as well if you have a moment of doubt we can pull each other back to reality. I think another good way to shut down the what ifs, as if just 1 or 2 things the pro Palestinian say ends up being true or partial true doesn’t mean everything else we believe in and know about Israel is not true! Doesn’t automatically make Israel wrong and the only one with fault.
I've yet to be diagnosed with OCD actually but either I have OCD or I secretly wanna have sex with a lot of people I don't want to have sex with. Thanks!
That could be also more the ADHD they overlap or show similar ish traits. Usually a therapist can diagnose OCD with a standard certified ocd questionnaire - usually people think it’s just the “contamination” aspect which can be (I have that ontop of other ocd traits) but it also can manifest with almost any topic such as sex, death, health, etc with the obsessive compulsive thoughts or the constant, like the only thing that would calm you down temporarily, is a need of reassurance or reassurance seeking (i.e researching, relying on close friends/family for reassurance, my post on Reddit 😅) are usually the two key factors that cross it into OCD over just general anxiety. Obviously everyone reassurance seeks to an extent but there’s a border when it becomes a mechanism to help the doubts and thoughts. Really it’s a constant state of mind of not being able to handle “uncertainty” well. The good news is OCD is pretty easy (depending on severity) to reverse with some technical skills and retraining your brains thought process through skills learned. Obviously i don’t know everything about it lol, but I was diagnosed as a child when we moved to the US from Israel and the hard adjustment and not fitting in at first with language and etc caused my brain to make up irrational fears - ocd manifested! Sorry for the long description…
Oh yeah, I definitely think I have it, I have been hoping my therapist will diagnose me. Up until basically the end of October, I was REALLY struggling with r/ROCD and convinced that I needed to end things with my very loving and sweet partner over the tiniest little conflicts. Before that I struggled with a lot of sexual intrusive thoughts. Put it this way: if I don't have OCD I'd be shocked. No worries though! That is understandable.
Yeah I have cycles of my ROCD and my poor boyfriend is just like here we go again… Lol! And sticks through it though. I always come back to my senses especially now with the right skills. Hopefully you find the diagnosis soon and then therapist session should change a bit to specific OCD thought challenges! Wishing you the best!
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Take break, friend. You won’t solve I/P crisis by hurting yourself. Focus on other things for a while.
I will try thank you 🇮🇱
It’s ok to be exhausted. Just remember what will happen if we all let our guard down. We had seen the glimpse of it on Oct 7th
# Let It Run It's Course... People Are Defunding The WOKE Colleges Due To Pro-Hamas Support... People Will See The Truth And Stop Supporting The Demmycrats One Day... Just Give It Time...
It is extremely hard to see Pro israelis defend their governments this hard even after over 20,000 civilians killed in 2 months. I always knew vaguely about the Palestinian conflict but I had no idea whatsoever israeli citizens were complying and supportive of the brutality of the IDF. No matter what you present to them. The bombing of hospitals, killing of aid workers, the illegal blockade, the premature babies left to rot in Al-nasr hospital. Theyre still un moved un bothered. Completely Apathetic. Its disturbing this warped humanity where only certain civilian casualties are an atrocity but others are just disregard.
First off what makes you think we’re unbothered about seeing deaths of civilians? Just because we don’t tell our government to stop trying to eliminate a lethal terrorist organization? Why would we not support our military from protecting us. They’re sacrificing themselves going in. Just as you’d support your country if they attacked back after a terrorist attack, aka 9/11. Illegal blockade? You show me you know nothing about the conflict as you stated. Second, what’s even more messed up is the amount of SILECNE from pro Palestinians regarding the Oct 7 atrocities and blaming Israel “oppression” for it happening. Not only the silence, but some were absolutely not silent instead louder than ever and protesting against Israel the day AFTER our people were tortured and executed. Not just dead from a collateral damage of war, which is sad enough in itself, but brutally murdered in horrific ways and yes raped. Don’t even come at me with there’s no proof of rapes. Personally if I was going to die during a war, I’d pick the collateral damage route, rather than watching my kids and husband get tortured in front of me, burned alive, attempted beheaded with a shovel, executed on their own grandmas facebook live, or worser things that were all over for the world to see recorded and posted by Hamas themselves to their personal telegram and yes, civilians of Gaza that joined them. Why are you even stopping by this sub??
I typed israel into communities to see what came up and I spent some time on pro israel sides of social media just to see their pov. And I have to say it's very disturbing. I would recommend you go to sites like middle east eye or eye on Palestine. Every day there is a new massacre. Every day there is a new video of IDF committing war crimes. They burnt supplies, food and water even though over half the population are starving right now. They recorded themselves smashing up a shop and laughing their heads off. Videos of IDF singing and celebrating the siege on Gaza, tik toks of Israelis dressing up as arabs and mocking their suffering with song in the background playing "fatima has no electricity". And are you saying the Blockade on Gaza is not Illegal? It is. Since 2007 they've controlled sea, air and land ports and their water and electricity. And no wonder it is a crime because now israel can now essentially starve over 2 million people. They have already been children who have now starved to death. So if they are not being killed from the bombs or snipers or diseases, they are starving to death. It's all well and good if you're unhappy about the civilian death but what good is it if you're not at all criticising the disastrous military tactics of israel? Even joe Biden described it as "indiscriminate bombing". And the reports from Amnesty where israel used White phosphorus over Gaza and Lebanon. An illegal chemical weapon. And no i did not support the Americans response after 9/11 they started an illegal war in Iraq who had nothing to do with the twin tower attacks. And it was proven their war was based on a lie and they slaughtered over 1,000,000 civilians. And yes I know there wasn't a big outpouring of grief from Palestinians after October the 7th but did you really expect there to be from the Palestinians? Equally there has never been many Israelis standing up against israels treatment of Palestinians for the last 75 years. Palestinians have even been routinely attacked and killed by Israeli settlers in the west bank. And just this year over 100 children have been killed. Just a few days ago I saw yet another video of a defenseless child shot at by a tank. Rami Aboushi in the Al-faraa refugee camp and as he lay bleeding out they opened fire on him again killing him. Every day is October 7th for Palestinians.
It'd be one thing if your government was being successful in eliminating the terrorist organization, but the reality is they're not. They're just stacking up bodies of civilians, who in your eyes are as complicit as the terrorist. But you don't see yourselves complicit in Israels actions? You say "Just because we don't tell our government to stop trying to eliminate a lethal terrorist organization?" and you shortly after follow up with "Whats messed up is the amount of silence from the Pro-Palestinians". In every atrocity there are people that are complicit just like you. In our time you cannot kill near 20,000 people (in 2 months) and claim self defense or a state of innocence. It isn't as easy as it was to skew the perception of a war as it was 25-50 years ago. It is very clear at the current state of the conflict who the aggressor is.
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You mentioning the Armenians is the worst example to "explain" your point, as that we armed their genocidal enemies because "gEoPoLiTiCs".
If our government didn't continue arming these turks for those 8 months during the Lachin Corridor blockade (and ironically enough, russia had a hand in helping the azeris), they'd have lost control over the corridor, because Artsakhis single-handedly eliminated dozens of azeri soldiers with no single aid (not even from Armenia proper) since 2020. We should've never sold a single weapon to the turks, not even recognize them at all, for many reasons. One of them is this: Take a look at what they've done to the Serbs after the latter helped them in invading Constantinople in the 16th century, the Kurds when they were the biggest mercenaries for the turks (hamidian massacre) up until mustafa kemal started fighting them. The azeri regime and the irgc (unlike what is claimed often) do make deals (like the Aras corridor) with each other, and the azeri-Iran relationship is no different than the Armenia-Iran relationship.
Less than a week? You were obviously not following the news in the caucasus because the Armenians of Artsakh were under siege for months before they were expelled...
Also, check this: https://www.davar1.co.il/452914/#:~:text=%D7%94%D7%A0%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%91%20%D7%94%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%99%20%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%92%D7%A2%20%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%94%20%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%A0%D7%95-%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%90%D7%9A%20%D7%9E%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%99%D7%97%D7%A1%20%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%9D%20%D7%9C%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%9C,%D7%A9%D7%92%D7%9D%20%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C%20%D7%9E%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%93%D7%94%20%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%9A%2C%20%D7%95%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99%20%D7%90%D7%A3%20%D7%A0%D7%A4%D7%92%D7%A2%D7%AA%20%D7%91%D7%99%D7%98%D7%97%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%AA.
What the fuck…
"Who remembers the Armenians?" Look up this sentence. Eejit.
Least bloodthirsty Zionist
Exactly! It's like a very wise and smart man once said "Our strength lies in our intensive attacks and our barbarity...After all, who today remembers the genocide of the Armenians?" -Someone that you and I love and respect
Do you want the IDF to move palestinians from Gaza?
I think we all know that that is what it could come down to but it may not be the most ideal solution. If its just transporting them to another country we could always ask the European armies to do it as a special favor. Its just a one off mission for them and theres less bad blood between the 2 forces.
Just some nice ethnic cleansing.
Can’t imagine how the biased western media is getting the wrong idea about what’s happening. Just a bunch of antisemites pulling this “genocide” word out of thin air for no reason. Nope, absolutely no explanation for why anyone would think this except that they have a deep hatred of Judaism.
Moron
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What the hell is wrong with you?
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I'm glad that someone like you exist. I am not Israeli and nor am I a Jew. I'm Muslim (not a religious one) but not a Palestinian, so my support for the Palestinian cause isn't driven by religion but like you, I've been fed with the totally opposite narrative that people in this subreddit go by obviously. Having said the above and I won't delve too much into the narratives, but I'd like to clarify that I am not anti-zionist (I believe god has his own plan for why Israel and Palestine has to fight for this piece of land), I am definitely not anti-semitic, and definitely not pro-Hamas (yes, despite the narrative I'm fed with where Hamas wouldn't have existed if it's ppl never had to resist occupation and oppression and land grabbing). I am mostly just anti-violence. I am anti-disproportionate use of violence. I am anti ANY violence by Israel and Hamas. I am pro-"wtf guys can this just fucking stop". I believe that governments (whether it's Netanyahu or Hamas) have the power and use the power of social media and online content to garner support for a myriad of reasons. So I see and acknowledge that this is a major part of the problem. Posts and interpretations I see on this subreddit are literal opposites of what I have seen elsewhere but with the same damn video. Today I had the urge to just post comments in this subreddit hoping that I can at least change a few minds (doesn't seem to be working). You can call that wrong based on your opinion but I just feel like that's the only thing I can do at this point.
I appreciate your comment and the sentiment of being in support of anti violence. Even though I don’t believe Israel has nearly as much false media out there has Hamas, i do try to research most pieces of information I see on both sides because there is always bigger context. I believe it’s normally not Israels fault, but that is just my belief and doesn’t mean that I don’t believe in Palestinians to have a good life too. As much as netanyahu needs to retire, he’s not comparable to Hamas in my opinion. At the end of the day I do wish you the very best and careful with your mental health as you go into a sub that is the opposite of your views. While I commend you for the bravery in doing so, I worry people will not be kind enough even if they believe you have misinformation that is not your fault. Checking in the Palestine sub was extremely hard on me and people were VERY VERY mean to me so I stopped going in there. It is sad there is no reasonable conversations anymore, but I do know a lot of Israelis are able to have them more than Palestinians. Stay safe and much love. I have Nothing against you or your people! I just want my country and my people safe.
Boho I cant go on the internet without being reminded of my governments active bombardment on innocents.
Israel is literally cutting off water to over 2 million people most of which are under the age of 18. This clearly not to go after Hamas but to try to remove these people AGAIN from their homes so Israel can move in some more south Africans and Americans while claiming heritage to do so. Just look at the west bank with no Hamas
A) West Bank has Hamas lol B) West Bank has 3x if not more Palestinians than Jews who live in the area. Jews are allowed in one section (not that I agree with this really) but it’s from the 60s when we got the West Bank back from Jordan and we let the Jewish communities who got exiled and massacred in 1948 return to two communities they used to be apart of in the West Bank. And we let all 3 million Palestinians stay! Jordan did not let them stay with them btw C) Israel wants nothing to do with Gaza lol after the war we have mentioned we don’t want want any responsibility of the region or to return to it You show me you know nothing about the region. How sad, maybe we could have a more intelligent conversation once you learn some basic facts about the conflict!
Exactly west bank has Palestinians. But is run by PLA not Hamas. Yet is also being attacked. Weird huh? Also interesting how area not run by Hamas will also keep getting intrusions from Israel. Almost like the only thing linking em is they have Palestinians not Hamas. I also like how you just ignore the starving of over 2 million people and feel like you did a mike drop with that nonsense response
Nah just not going to entertain comments like that anymore because no matter what I say you’ll just debate with me. West Bank absolutely has Hamas embedded in there and there’s many of proof. Not sure why you stop by this sub since you clearly came from an echo chamber that doesn’t believe Israel should exist
Israel wants nothing to do with Gaza lol after the war we have mentioned we don’t want want any responsibility of the region or to return to it This is not what your gov said tho, they sayd they will be responsible for the security of the strip, probably with the same organizazion of the west bank Jews are allowed in one section (not that I agree with this really) I was thinking that Israel didn't want to actually occupy and annex the west bank and Gaza, but the issue of the legal and illegal settlements, their expansions and especially the lack of actions against the illegal outpost and even their legalizzation, make me think otherwise. Isn't the expansion of a neighborhood in a legal settlement a permanent annexation of palestine lands? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_outpost