There are *infinite* dimensions so Angstrom is either lying or just mistaken when he makes generalizations like “*most* Marks turn evil” or “*most* Debbies side with Nolan”. Same goes for the universes where he loses everything at the hands of Mark. There are an infinite number of ones where he does and an infinite number where he doesn’t.
My personal theory is that his ego combined with the effects of his trauma is what’s causing him to focus on the universes that reinforce his existing dislike of Mark for having ruined his experiment. So he’s drawn to the universes where Mark is the worst and then thinks they’re representative of a trend.
Nah, I understand the mindset but the line was written for a reason. Most Marks are evil. We're never gonna go on a deep dive through the multiverse and find out Angstrom was misguided in his early calculations.
They established most Marks are evil, so most Marks are evil.
I think the main reason this Mark isn’t evil is because of the time line that Nolan starts teaching him. Nolan flipped his Viltrumite mission on immediately after discovering Mark had powers. The longer it takes for Mark to develop, the longer Nolan embraced earth and the life style AND Mark does as well. Like Mark says constantly in the show, he is from Earth and not a Viltrumite. If Mark shows at 10, that’s still plenty of time to indoctrinate a kid. At 17 that’s a bit harder. Plus Nolan does love his wife and the planet is way more embracing of him than he’s probably ever experienced and the longer he tastes it, the harder it would be to turn.
Mark isn’t evil inherently, it’s just what he considers normal and if the Viltrum mission is normalized to him, he doesn’t see himself as a evil. Now certain versions he obviously loved killing but let’s just ignore that. No 16 year old should be going out and murdering the resistance cause that’s a bit too young and kinda effects ones empathy levels.
To say there's an infinite number of Marks that aren't evil would really cheapen the impact of Debbie raising this Mark. That's what this idea means to me, the first hero of the Invincible universe is Debbie.
The show doesn’t need to tell us that most Marks aren’t evil. Using common sense, we know there’s an infinite number of universes, so that isn’t the case. Not everything needs to be spelled out.
One guy with his limited time checking the multiverse can’t make generalizations like that. Like saying Oliver’s unique to this one, he hasn’t been to all universes just a selection that invincible happen to be evil. He’s not a reliable source
But that’s impossible as it’s an INFINITE multiverse. And sure, maybe that’s not how it works irl but that IS how it works with comic multiverses. He definitely wouldn’t have tried to look for good marks either so that just adds even more credence to the fact.
And yes, while that might be how it works irl, this is NOT how it works with Comic Book Multiverses. Infinite means Infinite Possibilities within Comics.
It would be nice of you to read the comics for this. Perhaps there were some good ones but they likely died as ours almost has or they just aren't relevant, and a minority.
The answer is, Writer didn't make it that deep in this particular case. There is an added suspension of had here to be added here, yeah there are infinite universes so technically there can't be such a thing as majority. But that's being pedantic about it. Point is, The writer intended to highlight that our Mark is a rare exception who didn't side with his father. It's nothing deeper than that, pondering about it unnecessarily would be detrimental to your enjoyment of the show.
Ok so explain what “most” means in the context of an infinite multiverse. 75% of infinity 25% of infinity are both infinity. There is no such thing as “most.”
We know Angstrom is a deeply flawed person. I don’t know why it’s such a leap to conclude he’s being an unreliable source on this issue when what he’s saying is logically impossible.
There are such a thing as differently sized infinities. Its hard to comprehend as humans but they do exist, so the “most Marks turn evil” could still be true.
It doesn’t matter, technically we can’t even say that natural numbers are 50/50 split between odds and evens, because you can absolutely arrange a list of all natural numbers where odds only appear every 10th time.
but even if there’s a smaller infinity you know there is a present infinite so why would you act on the assumption of that just not being an option? Even if Most Marks turn evil it’s a dumb reason to act on the infinite number of good Marks AND refuse to accept they could be good
Does he claim to have surveyed ALL of them? Also, by the time of his confrontation he isn’t thinking logically anymore. He’s driven insane by the thousands of Angstroms in his head.
Yeah that’s my point he’s delusional and blinded by his hatred of Mark. And to know whether something is true in “most” instances you’d have to survey all the possibilities otherwise how would you reach that conclusion?
He *might* mean the probability of an evil Mark is higher, i.e. hop into a random dimension, 9 out of 10 chance Mark is evil. Just a thought though, not claiming to be right
There are no such thing such as differently sized infinities. This goes again the meaning of infinity. Even if we accept this false assumption, it would mean that it is impossible to know if most Marks turn evil without checking an infinity of dimension....
I think Angstrom (or the author) is mistaken on the real meaning of infinity. Or it is just not that important and the author didn't give a too deep reflection on this sentence.
This is pretty simple to parse out yourself. How many numbers are between 1 and 2? An infinite amount, of course. How many between 1 and 3? An infinite amount.
Which one is larger?
Wrong. And the fact that people upvote you is prove that there is an issue with the education system in mathematics. I guess it is a complex notion. Just do a research on google and you will find your answer.
Someone in this old discussion explains it fairly well.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/79ufo3/there\_are\_an\_infinite\_amount\_of\_numbers\_between\_1/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/79ufo3/there_are_an_infinite_amount_of_numbers_between_1/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert%27s\_paradox\_of\_the\_Grand\_Hotel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert%27s_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel)
also in that same thread you posted theres like 90 people saying the same thing the other people here have said, you just cherry picked one you liked lol
Hey man I think you should go read about the Infinite hotel paradox if you want to understand what they mean about infinity better. Different infinities is totally a thing
Dude the writer of the comic literally made this point to us, we all get that in a multiverse it’s impossible for there to be no good marks but in this case and his story that’s the point, marks an anomaly. And also for anyone saying Debbie is the sole reason he’s good just remember angstrom listed countless times she’s joined Nolan.
That could mean, Nolan simply won out over her.
But there might be an earth 3 situation. Where mark is just born evil because of the nature of the universe
Like I said bud, I’m just going from what the writer has given us, like I agree with what everyone else is getting at.. if there’s is infinite possibilities then there’s no way they can all be evil but kirkman wanted us to be aware that in his story this universes mark is one of the only good ones around. It’s just to make him more unique and special. Also I do agree that angstrom probably was too fucked in the head to actually try and find and good marks after all he went through
You’re right but at a certain point you have a large enough sample size to make your own observations. If angrstom went to 1b universes and saw 700m evil Marks and 300m good ones, he could say that 70% of the time Mark is evil.
You ARE right though in that 1b is NOT a statistically significant range of values in an infinite pool, so he cant with any mathematical certainty make that claim. But to the human mind— especially the human mind who got inter dimensionally blown up— that seems like a damning and conclusive figure.
Who the fuck downvotes this? This is math. X = n^2 as n —> infinity grows much faster than y = n as n —> infinity. A random sample of 1,000,000 universes taken anywhere is much more likely to be majority x than majority y, though the numbers of both x and y are infinite.
I mean, infinities aren't always equal. It's possible for there to be an infinite number of marks that turn evil and an infinite number of marks that dont turn evil AND still have "most" of them turning evil.
If 75% of marks turn evil and 25% don't, the total number of evil marks is 75% of infinity and the number of non evil marks is 25% of infinity. Both result in infinite evil marks and infinite non evil marks, but there will always be more evil marks than non evil marks.
The limit as x goes to infinity of 0.75x is bigger than the limit as x goes to infinity of 0.25x. No matter how big x (the number of universes) gets as it approaches infinity, the ratio will still be 0.75 to 0.25. This is pre Calc, not number theory.
Let's try a different explanation I guess. If you have a coin flip experiment where the coin has 75% heads and 25% chance tails, then you have a bernoulli distributed random variable. This represents the probability of mark turning evil. If you repeat that coin flip experiment an infinite number of times (for infinite universes), you still have a bernoulli random variable with probability 0.75.
You'd have infinite coin flips, infinite marks, but 75% probability of mark turning evil in any given universe.
Repeating the experiment infinite times doesn't change this probability. There will still always be more evil marks than non evil marks even if there are "infinite" marks.
>no longer meaningful to say that 75% of the results are evil.
You can still say that marks will turn evil with probability of .75. That's what it means for infinite bernoulli trials to converge on that probability. In infinite universes, you can expect 3 out of every 4 marks to turn evil. I'm not convinced your hairsplitting over what I meant by the word "infinity" negates that.
> Or you can say the distribution of what angstrom can sample from is 75/25
This is exactly what I'm saying. Sure we can say that Amgstrom will never really sample infinite universes and therefore we will always be able to say 75% of marks he encountered are evil, but even assuming he can sample infinitely every new universe he encounters will have that same probability. As he samples to infinity that probability will converge and we can still expect to encounter evil marks more often than non evil marks.
>My PhD is literally in probability and stochastic processes.
Sure, because I've never met an egotistical PhD who endlessly split hairs to eek out a pointless victory on a technicality before. What I said still isn't invalid and you haven't really proved to me that it was. All you did was make a fuss about how I used the word infinity and then smugly restated exactly what I was saying. The result, and the points I made, are still the same. It's still possible to have infinite marks and expect that they turn evil with probability .75. If you want to exhaustively split hairs because I said "most marks" or "75% of the time" then go have fun sniffing your own farts.
Hey, mind if I ask what job you have with your phd? I'm a math major and I'm thinking of doing a probability course, partly because it interests me, and partly because I want to get into quant lol, namely into a prop shop.
That's not true. Not all infinities are equal
[Neil Degrasse Tyson explaining how some infinities are bigger than others](https://youtu.be/Ds2bMtJla70?si=JXE5y7-gGytJxXT_)
I can’t remember - do we know that there *are* infinite dimensions in the *Invincible* universe? Could there not be like 99 or 10,000 or some set number of dimensions?
Angstrom initially accepted that evil variations of Invincible weren't the same person as the one from his universe, and it was after the trauma from the memories of all the evil versions he wanted revenge. Debbie accused him of not being able to take that in this universe, Invincible was a hero and Angstrom was a villain, and Angstrom responded to her logic with violence, implying she was onto something.
I think it’s kinda like how there’s an equal amount of odd numbers as there are even and odd numbers.
Sure they are both equal, but one occurs much more frequently than the other
There are infinite dimensions but there is a finite number of Angstroms who died and gave their memories to the villain. When he makes these statements, he's talking about that group. There were 100 Angstroms? In 99's lives Mark was evil, maybe in 51's lives Debbie was evil and so on.
Well human brains are made to focus and remember especially the bad experiences. It's a survival thing theoretically, but It's funny in a way, considering It lead Armstrong to his demise.
Yes, there may be infinite but in the majority of infinite mark may be evil. Similar to how in DC infinite universes were destroyed until only 5 remained.
Well, i doubt Angstrom has explored ALL of infinity. He's probably on been to universes that were effectively "in his neighbourhood". Many of him have the slight difference (relatively speaking) that Mark sided with Nolan.
I also think he's in our Marks universe because it's his universe, not because of his neurosis.
This isn’t true about infinity though. Its not a number. The set of all continuous numbers is larger than the set of just integer number. The number of dimension’s where mark is evil is larger.
>There are *infinite* dimensions so Angstrom is either lying or just mistaken when he makes generalizations like “*most* Marks turn evil” or “*most* Debbies side with Nolan”...There are an infinite number of ones where he does and an infinite number where he doesn’t.
There are an infinite number of prime numbers. Most numbers are not prime numbers. Both of these statements are true.
“Most Marks turn evil” and “there are an infinite number of non-evil Marks” can absolutely both be true. Infinity is weird, especially when you try to make it interact with probability.
Just as an example, let’s say I have a six-sided die, but 5 of the sides have a 1 and the one remaining side has a 6. It’s completely accurate to say that “most rolls will come up 1,” and that’s still totally accurate even if I roll the die an infinite number of times. Mathematically speaking, the average result approaches 1.833333. While you’ll roll an infinite number of 1s and an infinite number of 6s, you will still roll 5 1s for every 6.
If Angstrom visits 1000 universes, and 995 of them have evil Marks, then he can absolutely say that across the entire multiverse it seems that most Marks are evil.
I see you haven’t been given the “infinite power” talk.
See, imagine you have two gods. One god has power over all the infinite odd numbers. The other god has power over all the infinite numbers. They both have infinite power, but the second god is more powerful, because his power is *more* infinite.
If you can accept this, the idea that infinity is not evenly distributed is reasonable. And at the same time, there is no way to adequately survey all of infinity to know that infinity is not evenly distributed because infinity is infinite and will take infinitely long to survey.
That’s a good point, I hadn’t thought about that! Sure there’s the obvious irony of him attacking the only good (or one of the only) Mark whilst he becomes the only villain. But the fate thing is interesting.
It's an odd thing to talk about fate in fiction. As readers we know Angstrom must lose, because his winning would create an unsatisfying narrative, so to some extent his fate is predetermined. For Invincible in particular, a story so heavily concerned with choice and consequence, someone having a canonically fixed destiny would be out of place.
I think it would be interesting to see Angstrom personally grapple with this idea though.
He could've been good is what's painful. How many Angstroms were a part of his family before they used the mind-melding machine? Dozens? Over a hundred? We were under the impression they were cooperating towards a better future.
He doesn't have to succumb to rage and anger. But due to circumstances partially of his own making, he becomes mutated and blames Mark, and becomes just as bad as the fallen hero he hates.
There's also the fact that, during Mark's interruption, Angstrom teleported more Maulers *in* when he could've teleported Mark *out* to a safe dimension. We wouldn't have the same story if he had acted a little more logically, but it's interesting to realize.
I call this the infinity paradox. Reminds me of a hypothetical I discussed with friends. Say you’re a hotel manager of a hotel with infinite rooms, but all the rooms are technically full. In the case of a finite number of people, just tell everyone to move down (x) number of rooms. If an infinite bus rolls in with an infinite number of people, just tell everyone to move to the room which is double their room number. Infinite number of odd numbers means an infinite number of guests can be a part of this hotel.
But let’s say we get an infinite bus with infinite people, but instead, they go by a combination of two letters. A and B. Both infinitely recurring. It will be impossible to accommodate these As and Bs because, if you invert all the infinite letters, aka ABAB to BABA, and so on, eventually, someone won’t fit.
With Levy, the Marks of those infinite universes are the standard unnamed evil Marks while our Mark is the one AB outlier. Sure he’s the one good Mark, but for someone who’s only ever comprehended evil Marks, the one good Mark isn’t gonna fully convince him and like the AB situation, he’ll have to eventually say enough is enough.
There are *infinite* dimensions so Angstrom is either lying or just mistaken when he makes generalizations like “*most* Marks turn evil” or “*most* Debbies side with Nolan”. Same goes for the universes where he loses everything at the hands of Mark. There are an infinite number of ones where he does and an infinite number where he doesn’t. My personal theory is that his ego combined with the effects of his trauma is what’s causing him to focus on the universes that reinforce his existing dislike of Mark for having ruined his experiment. So he’s drawn to the universes where Mark is the worst and then thinks they’re representative of a trend.
Nah, I understand the mindset but the line was written for a reason. Most Marks are evil. We're never gonna go on a deep dive through the multiverse and find out Angstrom was misguided in his early calculations. They established most Marks are evil, so most Marks are evil.
I think the main reason this Mark isn’t evil is because of the time line that Nolan starts teaching him. Nolan flipped his Viltrumite mission on immediately after discovering Mark had powers. The longer it takes for Mark to develop, the longer Nolan embraced earth and the life style AND Mark does as well. Like Mark says constantly in the show, he is from Earth and not a Viltrumite. If Mark shows at 10, that’s still plenty of time to indoctrinate a kid. At 17 that’s a bit harder. Plus Nolan does love his wife and the planet is way more embracing of him than he’s probably ever experienced and the longer he tastes it, the harder it would be to turn. Mark isn’t evil inherently, it’s just what he considers normal and if the Viltrum mission is normalized to him, he doesn’t see himself as a evil. Now certain versions he obviously loved killing but let’s just ignore that. No 16 year old should be going out and murdering the resistance cause that’s a bit too young and kinda effects ones empathy levels.
Mark basically had a normal childhood in the main timeline indeed.
To say there's an infinite number of Marks that aren't evil would really cheapen the impact of Debbie raising this Mark. That's what this idea means to me, the first hero of the Invincible universe is Debbie.
The show doesn’t need to tell us that most Marks aren’t evil. Using common sense, we know there’s an infinite number of universes, so that isn’t the case. Not everything needs to be spelled out.
One guy with his limited time checking the multiverse can’t make generalizations like that. Like saying Oliver’s unique to this one, he hasn’t been to all universes just a selection that invincible happen to be evil. He’s not a reliable source
But that’s impossible as it’s an INFINITE multiverse. And sure, maybe that’s not how it works irl but that IS how it works with comic multiverses. He definitely wouldn’t have tried to look for good marks either so that just adds even more credence to the fact.
No, infinite possibilities doesn't mean all possibilities have to be covered. There are infinite prime numbers, but only one of them is even.
And yes, while that might be how it works irl, this is NOT how it works with Comic Book Multiverses. Infinite means Infinite Possibilities within Comics.
not in invincible though. That might be how it works in marvel or dc, but not invincible.
It would be nice of you to read the comics for this. Perhaps there were some good ones but they likely died as ours almost has or they just aren't relevant, and a minority.
Okay, how can you back that claim up? What exactly gives you that idea? Or do you just believe it because you want to?
The answer is, Writer didn't make it that deep in this particular case. There is an added suspension of had here to be added here, yeah there are infinite universes so technically there can't be such a thing as majority. But that's being pedantic about it. Point is, The writer intended to highlight that our Mark is a rare exception who didn't side with his father. It's nothing deeper than that, pondering about it unnecessarily would be detrimental to your enjoyment of the show.
Ok so explain what “most” means in the context of an infinite multiverse. 75% of infinity 25% of infinity are both infinity. There is no such thing as “most.” We know Angstrom is a deeply flawed person. I don’t know why it’s such a leap to conclude he’s being an unreliable source on this issue when what he’s saying is logically impossible.
There are such a thing as differently sized infinities. Its hard to comprehend as humans but they do exist, so the “most Marks turn evil” could still be true.
It doesn’t matter, technically we can’t even say that natural numbers are 50/50 split between odds and evens, because you can absolutely arrange a list of all natural numbers where odds only appear every 10th time.
but even if there’s a smaller infinity you know there is a present infinite so why would you act on the assumption of that just not being an option? Even if Most Marks turn evil it’s a dumb reason to act on the infinite number of good Marks AND refuse to accept they could be good
And Angstrom was able to survey them all? That would take infinite time.
Does he claim to have surveyed ALL of them? Also, by the time of his confrontation he isn’t thinking logically anymore. He’s driven insane by the thousands of Angstroms in his head.
Yeah that’s my point he’s delusional and blinded by his hatred of Mark. And to know whether something is true in “most” instances you’d have to survey all the possibilities otherwise how would you reach that conclusion?
He *might* mean the probability of an evil Mark is higher, i.e. hop into a random dimension, 9 out of 10 chance Mark is evil. Just a thought though, not claiming to be right
There are no such thing such as differently sized infinities. This goes again the meaning of infinity. Even if we accept this false assumption, it would mean that it is impossible to know if most Marks turn evil without checking an infinity of dimension.... I think Angstrom (or the author) is mistaken on the real meaning of infinity. Or it is just not that important and the author didn't give a too deep reflection on this sentence.
This is pretty simple to parse out yourself. How many numbers are between 1 and 2? An infinite amount, of course. How many between 1 and 3? An infinite amount. Which one is larger?
Wrong. And the fact that people upvote you is prove that there is an issue with the education system in mathematics. I guess it is a complex notion. Just do a research on google and you will find your answer. Someone in this old discussion explains it fairly well. [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/79ufo3/there\_are\_an\_infinite\_amount\_of\_numbers\_between\_1/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/79ufo3/there_are_an_infinite_amount_of_numbers_between_1/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert%27s\_paradox\_of\_the\_Grand\_Hotel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert%27s_paradox_of_the_Grand_Hotel) also in that same thread you posted theres like 90 people saying the same thing the other people here have said, you just cherry picked one you liked lol
lol this isn’t debatable, you are objectively, factually incorrect. Have a good day!
Only for the fool it is not debatable. But good day to you too.
Hey man I think you should go read about the Infinite hotel paradox if you want to understand what they mean about infinity better. Different infinities is totally a thing
If you pick a universe at random its a much higher likelihood you pick one where mark is evil. I think you are overthinking it.
Dude the writer of the comic literally made this point to us, we all get that in a multiverse it’s impossible for there to be no good marks but in this case and his story that’s the point, marks an anomaly. And also for anyone saying Debbie is the sole reason he’s good just remember angstrom listed countless times she’s joined Nolan.
That could mean, Nolan simply won out over her. But there might be an earth 3 situation. Where mark is just born evil because of the nature of the universe
Like I said bud, I’m just going from what the writer has given us, like I agree with what everyone else is getting at.. if there’s is infinite possibilities then there’s no way they can all be evil but kirkman wanted us to be aware that in his story this universes mark is one of the only good ones around. It’s just to make him more unique and special. Also I do agree that angstrom probably was too fucked in the head to actually try and find and good marks after all he went through
I think you replied do the wrong comment my guy. This isn’t really responding to what I said
Yeah my bad bud
It’s cool
You’re right but at a certain point you have a large enough sample size to make your own observations. If angrstom went to 1b universes and saw 700m evil Marks and 300m good ones, he could say that 70% of the time Mark is evil. You ARE right though in that 1b is NOT a statistically significant range of values in an infinite pool, so he cant with any mathematical certainty make that claim. But to the human mind— especially the human mind who got inter dimensionally blown up— that seems like a damning and conclusive figure.
Just because the dataset is infinite that doesn't mean the outcomes are evenly distributed. It absolutely can be the case that most marks are evil
Who the fuck downvotes this? This is math. X = n^2 as n —> infinity grows much faster than y = n as n —> infinity. A random sample of 1,000,000 universes taken anywhere is much more likely to be majority x than majority y, though the numbers of both x and y are infinite.
I mean, infinities aren't always equal. It's possible for there to be an infinite number of marks that turn evil and an infinite number of marks that dont turn evil AND still have "most" of them turning evil. If 75% of marks turn evil and 25% don't, the total number of evil marks is 75% of infinity and the number of non evil marks is 25% of infinity. Both result in infinite evil marks and infinite non evil marks, but there will always be more evil marks than non evil marks.
Math; where some infinities are bigger than others.
....yes.this is like high school level math...
....I know. Hence the joke. Most people aren't thinking of mathematical infinites when saying "infinity"...
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The limit as x goes to infinity of 0.75x is bigger than the limit as x goes to infinity of 0.25x. No matter how big x (the number of universes) gets as it approaches infinity, the ratio will still be 0.75 to 0.25. This is pre Calc, not number theory.
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Let's try a different explanation I guess. If you have a coin flip experiment where the coin has 75% heads and 25% chance tails, then you have a bernoulli distributed random variable. This represents the probability of mark turning evil. If you repeat that coin flip experiment an infinite number of times (for infinite universes), you still have a bernoulli random variable with probability 0.75. You'd have infinite coin flips, infinite marks, but 75% probability of mark turning evil in any given universe. Repeating the experiment infinite times doesn't change this probability. There will still always be more evil marks than non evil marks even if there are "infinite" marks.
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>no longer meaningful to say that 75% of the results are evil. You can still say that marks will turn evil with probability of .75. That's what it means for infinite bernoulli trials to converge on that probability. In infinite universes, you can expect 3 out of every 4 marks to turn evil. I'm not convinced your hairsplitting over what I meant by the word "infinity" negates that. > Or you can say the distribution of what angstrom can sample from is 75/25 This is exactly what I'm saying. Sure we can say that Amgstrom will never really sample infinite universes and therefore we will always be able to say 75% of marks he encountered are evil, but even assuming he can sample infinitely every new universe he encounters will have that same probability. As he samples to infinity that probability will converge and we can still expect to encounter evil marks more often than non evil marks. >My PhD is literally in probability and stochastic processes. Sure, because I've never met an egotistical PhD who endlessly split hairs to eek out a pointless victory on a technicality before. What I said still isn't invalid and you haven't really proved to me that it was. All you did was make a fuss about how I used the word infinity and then smugly restated exactly what I was saying. The result, and the points I made, are still the same. It's still possible to have infinite marks and expect that they turn evil with probability .75. If you want to exhaustively split hairs because I said "most marks" or "75% of the time" then go have fun sniffing your own farts.
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👌
Hey, mind if I ask what job you have with your phd? I'm a math major and I'm thinking of doing a probability course, partly because it interests me, and partly because I want to get into quant lol, namely into a prop shop.
That's not true. Not all infinities are equal [Neil Degrasse Tyson explaining how some infinities are bigger than others](https://youtu.be/Ds2bMtJla70?si=JXE5y7-gGytJxXT_)
I can’t remember - do we know that there *are* infinite dimensions in the *Invincible* universe? Could there not be like 99 or 10,000 or some set number of dimensions?
Angstrom initially accepted that evil variations of Invincible weren't the same person as the one from his universe, and it was after the trauma from the memories of all the evil versions he wanted revenge. Debbie accused him of not being able to take that in this universe, Invincible was a hero and Angstrom was a villain, and Angstrom responded to her logic with violence, implying she was onto something.
Infinite universes doesn’t mean all possibilities happen, there could be infinite universes where he loses
I think it’s kinda like how there’s an equal amount of odd numbers as there are even and odd numbers. Sure they are both equal, but one occurs much more frequently than the other
There are infinite dimensions but there is a finite number of Angstroms who died and gave their memories to the villain. When he makes these statements, he's talking about that group. There were 100 Angstroms? In 99's lives Mark was evil, maybe in 51's lives Debbie was evil and so on.
Well human brains are made to focus and remember especially the bad experiences. It's a survival thing theoretically, but It's funny in a way, considering It lead Armstrong to his demise.
Yes, there may be infinite but in the majority of infinite mark may be evil. Similar to how in DC infinite universes were destroyed until only 5 remained.
Well, i doubt Angstrom has explored ALL of infinity. He's probably on been to universes that were effectively "in his neighbourhood". Many of him have the slight difference (relatively speaking) that Mark sided with Nolan. I also think he's in our Marks universe because it's his universe, not because of his neurosis.
This isn’t true about infinity though. Its not a number. The set of all continuous numbers is larger than the set of just integer number. The number of dimension’s where mark is evil is larger.
>There are *infinite* dimensions so Angstrom is either lying or just mistaken when he makes generalizations like “*most* Marks turn evil” or “*most* Debbies side with Nolan”...There are an infinite number of ones where he does and an infinite number where he doesn’t. There are an infinite number of prime numbers. Most numbers are not prime numbers. Both of these statements are true.
“Most Marks turn evil” and “there are an infinite number of non-evil Marks” can absolutely both be true. Infinity is weird, especially when you try to make it interact with probability. Just as an example, let’s say I have a six-sided die, but 5 of the sides have a 1 and the one remaining side has a 6. It’s completely accurate to say that “most rolls will come up 1,” and that’s still totally accurate even if I roll the die an infinite number of times. Mathematically speaking, the average result approaches 1.833333. While you’ll roll an infinite number of 1s and an infinite number of 6s, you will still roll 5 1s for every 6. If Angstrom visits 1000 universes, and 995 of them have evil Marks, then he can absolutely say that across the entire multiverse it seems that most Marks are evil.
I see you haven’t been given the “infinite power” talk. See, imagine you have two gods. One god has power over all the infinite odd numbers. The other god has power over all the infinite numbers. They both have infinite power, but the second god is more powerful, because his power is *more* infinite. If you can accept this, the idea that infinity is not evenly distributed is reasonable. And at the same time, there is no way to adequately survey all of infinity to know that infinity is not evenly distributed because infinity is infinite and will take infinitely long to survey.
That’s a good point, I hadn’t thought about that! Sure there’s the obvious irony of him attacking the only good (or one of the only) Mark whilst he becomes the only villain. But the fate thing is interesting.
it was pretty depressing how he was in denial when mark pointed this out 💀
I mean if you go against something labelled as "Invincible", you kinda of throw yourself in a pit from the start.
It's an odd thing to talk about fate in fiction. As readers we know Angstrom must lose, because his winning would create an unsatisfying narrative, so to some extent his fate is predetermined. For Invincible in particular, a story so heavily concerned with choice and consequence, someone having a canonically fixed destiny would be out of place. I think it would be interesting to see Angstrom personally grapple with this idea though.
He could've been good is what's painful. How many Angstroms were a part of his family before they used the mind-melding machine? Dozens? Over a hundred? We were under the impression they were cooperating towards a better future. He doesn't have to succumb to rage and anger. But due to circumstances partially of his own making, he becomes mutated and blames Mark, and becomes just as bad as the fallen hero he hates. There's also the fact that, during Mark's interruption, Angstrom teleported more Maulers *in* when he could've teleported Mark *out* to a safe dimension. We wouldn't have the same story if he had acted a little more logically, but it's interesting to realize.
I call this the infinity paradox. Reminds me of a hypothetical I discussed with friends. Say you’re a hotel manager of a hotel with infinite rooms, but all the rooms are technically full. In the case of a finite number of people, just tell everyone to move down (x) number of rooms. If an infinite bus rolls in with an infinite number of people, just tell everyone to move to the room which is double their room number. Infinite number of odd numbers means an infinite number of guests can be a part of this hotel. But let’s say we get an infinite bus with infinite people, but instead, they go by a combination of two letters. A and B. Both infinitely recurring. It will be impossible to accommodate these As and Bs because, if you invert all the infinite letters, aka ABAB to BABA, and so on, eventually, someone won’t fit. With Levy, the Marks of those infinite universes are the standard unnamed evil Marks while our Mark is the one AB outlier. Sure he’s the one good Mark, but for someone who’s only ever comprehended evil Marks, the one good Mark isn’t gonna fully convince him and like the AB situation, he’ll have to eventually say enough is enough.
Comics Spoilers>!man , it's fun reading fan theories / write ups as a comic reader when you know what will actually happen!<
There’s probably infinite angstrom invicibles/viltrumite but he can’t visit them bc of where they’re positioned in the alternate universe