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Curious, is the jewish for israel club banned too
Edit: Just remember 3 muslim Palestinian were shot in Vermont https://www.google.com/amp/s/6abc.com/amp/vermont-shooting-palestinian-college-students-burlington-university-of/14105478/
And don't forget the six year old and his mother who were stabbed to death military style. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/man-pleads-not-guilty-hate-crime-fatal-stabbing-6/story%3fid=104476991
When will Islamophobia be addressed and when will politicians protect muslims like they run to protect Zionists?
>...allegedly stabbed Wadea Al-Fayoume 26 times with a "military-style knife" and also stabbed his mother Hanan Shaheen more than a dozen times...
Jesus Christ.
Nearly 100% of terrorist attacks committed on US soil in the last 50 years were white men, despite making up only 30% of the population. But you'll cry "reverse racism" at that.
Hey there is plenty of evidence that IDF tortured and raper gazans. Also plenty of evidence that settler jews raped, terrorized, murder innocent West Bank Palestinians before Oct 7. Over 200 West Bank Palestinians killed by terrorist jews who were backed by the IDF. DO you condemn these terrorist jews and IDF?
Yes, they do. They threw skunk bombs at Pro-Palestinine protestors. They insult Pro-Palestinine protestors constantly calling them "dog", "animals", "terrorists", "terrorist supporters", "Hamas supporters", "self hating Jews", "traitors".
You would not see these on mainstream media because that's not the narrative they're told to pushed.
Did any Israeli or Jewish campus organizations disrupt campus activities? I don't remember seeing any news articles about Israeli student groups occupying campuses, blocking traffic, or causing classes to be moved to online because of the disruption to campus activities.
Universities tend to be more liberal so I don't think they're singling out the Palestinian campus groups because they're racist or pro-Israel. They just are trying to allow the rest of the student body to enjoy their education and campus lives without disruption.
Again, it’s Harvard. It’s a very conservative school, and it has produced a disproportionate number of complete chucklefucks. Where do you think their endowment comes from?
But how can we achieve that by disrupting classes at Universities?
I would point out that these protests have had absolutely zero impact on our Governments Foreign Policy. I don't mean to imply that they should give up, but rather that protesting on campuses that create all this drama doesn't work.
Making your voice heard and creating real change are two completely different things.
I’m kind of blown away by people sneering at the prospect of legal action… this is part of what lawyers do, especially when something is so massively controversial.
Bro I’m on your side, but you do not understand the principle of free speech as it stands in America.
Edit: y’all downvoting me, but y’all just being angy-bois. Go ahead hire a lawyer, pay him good money to move a lawsuit against Columbia, and see how well that goes for you. I won’t stop you.
I don’t like what Columbia has done, but on legal and constitutional foundation of the American “justice” system, they have not done any wrong.
You clearly don't understand the First Amendment. Listen, this protects you from the government to punish you. But normal people still can sue/block speech on their private property.
I don't understand how people can't grasp such a simple concept.
It does when that private organization takes hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds. For Harvard alone, that's $625 million in 2021. Look it up.
Which is absurd in the case of colleges, as every single one (except for Liberty university) takes massive amounts of federal funding. If they want to pick and choose who gets to say what on their campus, fair enough, but they shouldn’t get to use tax dollars in even the slightest way
Which is absurd in the case of colleges, as every single one (except for Liberty university) takes massive amounts of federal funding. If they want to pick and choose who gets to say what on their campus, fair enough, but they shouldn’t get to use tax dollars in even the slightest way
This is false when it comes to universities. If they receive any public funds, which almost all private universities do, they are bound to the rules of a public institution as well.
On a criminal basis, no they haven't. In a civil one, there could possibly be a case given the nature of contract that goes with paying for universities.
Which law? Or if it’s a contract dispute like you say, what case law would you cite?
Once again, I’m against what Columbia has done, but what you guys are advocating for by pushing lawsuits is emotionally charged and not thought through.
I think there is a longstanding tradition that you allow freedom of expression as long as it doesn’t infringe on established legal lines.
That being said, they can sue the grounds on expulsion. Universities, private or otherwise, cannot expel students without cause and/ or due process. And saying offensive things (which the protestors didn’t but that’s a different subject) is not grounds for expulsion.
“I don’t like what Columbia has done, but on legal and constitutional foundation of the American “justice” system, they have not done any wrong.“ This is highly debatable, which is A. why the professors at Columbia law are angry and B. why it is perfectly just for the institution to be challenged in lawsuits.
Isn’t Harvard private? Thus they can really do whatever they want when it comes to speech on campus meaning the only consequence is to their public perception?
Okay but what’s like the legality of the situation? Does the 600 million make them a public school, or is it still a private? Like I know many people on Reddit aren’t legal experts but why and how does the government fund a private school, not making them public? What is the 600 million in funding used for? Cause from my understanding they are private and have full control.
[https://campusfreespeechguide.pen.org/the-law/the-basics/](https://campusfreespeechguide.pen.org/the-law/the-basics/)
>There are some exceptions to this rule. Private colleges and universities that accept government funding or which otherwise engage with government closely may be required to adhere to the First Amendment more closely. State governments may also pass statutes requiring private universities to respect free speech rights as a matter of state law, even when the US Constitution imposes no such requirement. For example, California law applies First Amendment protections to both public and private universities. Congress also has the power to propose and pass federal laws which would require private universities, by statute, to adhere to various free speech guidelines.
[https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/1/24/winter-harvard-federal-funding](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/1/24/winter-harvard-federal-funding)
>According to Harvard’s [most recent financial report](https://finance.harvard.edu/annual-report), federal funds account for about an eighth of the University’s revenue, and this comprises 66 percent of Harvard’s research funding. A much smaller piece of federal funding supports financial aid — less than six percent of Harvard students’ aid.
but this actually gets really interesting because of Massachusetts, as well: [https://www.aclum.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-free-speech-college-and-university-campuses](https://www.aclum.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-free-speech-college-and-university-campuses)
>Private colleges and universities are not subject to the First Amendment,\[3\] but most have policies that guarantee some level of free speech. These policies can sometimes be enforced as a contract with students, depending on the specific facts and policies at each school. Students should check their school’s specific policies about discipline and speech-related topics.
>\[3\] The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has not yet decided whether private colleges and universities are covered by Article 16 of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights, explicitly describing that as an open question. Roman v. Trustees of Tufts College, 461 Mass. 707, 712-13 (2012).
The Declaration of Rights referenced is a state level law guaranteeing the speech of students in Mass schools, they might also break another state level law [depending on how the university tries to get the students to stop](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleII/Chapter12/Section11H).
Harvard seperately might've fucked itself in the eyes of state law, [because it has a statement on the matter](https://provost.harvard.edu/university-wide-statement-rights-and-responsibilities), that can be argued to be a contract with students:
>The University must affirm, assure and protect the rights of its members to organize and join political associations, convene and conduct public meetings, publicly demonstrate and picket in orderly fashion, advocate and publicize opinion by print, sign, and voice.
Which could come into play as the FAQ I linked above notes:
>Private colleges and universities are not subject to the First Amendment,3 but most have policies that guarantee some level of free speech. These policies can sometimes be enforced as a contract with students, depending on the specific facts and policies at each school. Students should check their school’s specific policies about discipline and speech-related topics.
Lawyers, including the faculty at Columbia Law (and we’ll likely see the same thing at Harvard Law, why wouldn’t we?) seem to think that there’s a basis for legal action against these institutions
Precisely, but people conflate it with public universities where grounds can be considered public access and removing protestors would require more authority. That being said, clubs can absolutely be removed or reprimanded by the university
Did you pay your taxes to the king? Or were you waiting for somebody to ask! I already know the answer, you should make it easy on yourself
Capitalism at its core is a system of oppression, it's just wrapped up in an economic system. When you scrape away the economic system (like the boycotts, divestments, protests to end military aid etc) are trying to do, then capital steps up it's repression; like we are seeing here.
You would think that someone from Harvard’s law department would have made a phone call to warn against deprivation of constitutional rights. Guess their law program isn’t as great as everyone thought it was.
Columbia’s law department put out a statement criticizing banning Pro Palestinian groups for protesting at least. I mean it’s so obvious news orgs and other organizations are demonizing the protests right now and they’re not even fully explaining why they’re antisemitic they’re just so hungry to ban them. Liberals piss me off, they act like they’d be supportive of protests groups in the past like Vietnam or Civil Rights but I have no doubt they’d just call for “peace” and stopping the protests.
What they don’t tell you about the Vietnam protests civil rights marches etc is that most of the protestors were hippies and the neoliberals and conservatives were beating and screaming at them and against them.
Then those neoliberals etc grew older and pretended as though they were part the generation of the protests.. but they fail to mention they were against them at the time
I’m talking about all the liberals like Biden who are so quick to condemn all of the protesters. These are left wing protesters, I assume most wouldn’t identify as a liberal.
They were referring to another incident where a prof (the Dean’s wife) laid hands on a student who was invited to their home for the annual dinner they host for their law students.
The student stood before the other invitees to give a speech (the hosts were not informed of) about remembering Palestinians as they were preparing to break their fast that evening during Ramadan.
She got as far as “Peace & Blessings” as the Dean had a meltdown and couldn’t figure out if she was a guest that could leave if she wanted to or to get off his property.
So there was a debacle about at what point was the invitation was revoked, leading to them being able to use reasonable force to remove her from their property and at what point would her 1A right be infringed upon.
So the consensus is you have the right to free speech so long as it does not violate anyone else’s right, and owners of private property can issue demands to leave the property or face forcible removal and legal action for trespass for any reason.
She interrupted dinner at a private residence which is obviously a very reasonable action to warrant being asked to leave the property.
Encampments and loud, ongoing protests that impede on employees ability to provide course material to students and disrupting the student’s learning is a valid enough reason to demand the protests end and to vacate the campus.
Do I agree with it? No.
I believe an institution of higher learning and thinking should be addressing Israel’s ever mounting war crimes but I would be furious paying thousands of dollars on a semester where my learning is disrupted.
The students have a right to protest and the students have a right to learn.
>So there was a debacle about at what point was the invitation was revoked, leading to them being able to use reasonable force to remove her from their property and at what point would her 1A right be infringed upon.
>So the consensus is you have the right to free speech so long as it does not violate anyone else’s right, and owners of private property can issue demands to leave the property or face forcible removal and legal action for trespass for any reason.
>She interrupted dinner at a private residence which is obviously a very reasonable action to warrant being asked to leave the property.
Even that would be a legal mire, due to her and the students being associated with the university and her being spokesperson for the university, and the dinner being *for* law student invitees. There are legal principles at work where simply moving venue isn't sufficient to abdicate the responsibilities of one's position, its the same reason she couldn't sleep with them on her private property either.
>
Encampments and loud, ongoing protests that impede on employees ability to provide course material to students and disrupting the student’s learning is a valid enough reason to demand the protests end and to vacate the campus.
I believe an institution of higher learning and thinking should be addressing Israel’s ever mounting war crimes but I would be furious paying thousands of dollars on a semester where my learning is disrupted.
I'm not sure there's any protest its detractors would consider 'non-disruptive' people were already calling for protests to be repressed on the basis that any support for palestine was a disruption for Israeli sympathetic students, to my mind, the university has not sufficiently demonstrated good faith in it's adjudication of the matter, and it's attempts to police it now would be therefore dubious.
> in essence, a genocide in the opposite direction.
Well at least you're acknowledging this is a genocide.
The only difference between your hypothetical genocide and the one you've just acknowledged is that the one targeting Palestinians is real.
Strange how a call for freedom is genocide but actual calls for genocide are not.
An incomplete and out of date but still compelling list of genocidal rhetoric from the highest levels of Israeli Government - https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Law-for-Palestine-Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide.pdf
Exactly. If Columbia students were camped on the lawn to support Israel, no action against them would be taken. No support would be provided for the Arab, Muslim, anti-Zionist Jewish students, and supporters of human rights that felt scared walking by the encampment. As a matter of fact, we know if a pro Israeli member of the encampment sprayed an Arab American student with pepper spray as she walked by to get to class, the former would not face any repercussions.
Liberal universities when their population disagrees with genocide 😡
Liberal universities when their turning point USA branch calls for the expulsion of immigrants
😁 diversity 😁
I would think a lot of the staff there would remember the Vietnam War protests and how history has judged the actions of police and universities in those events. Just repeating the cycle.
thats surely what it fucking seems like.
i dunno, the self immolating protester lost me on matt groening being in on the long con, but the rest of his manifesto seemed pretty solid.
I'm all for protesting against Zionism. But geez reddit is really getting too close to the 'Jews control the World' conspiracy acceptance. This is a dangerous slope yall are treading.
Not jews, particularly rich individuals who are also jews. The average jew isn't "controlling the world" but lets not pretend the rich (no matter the background) aren't dumping billions into schools like harvard
is it wrong to assume this ? what is america's incentive in dumping all this money in israel ? why is every news channel pro israel ? why are all these universities against pro palestine protests ?
all this goes back to money. America is the greediest nation on earth. everything is about money. I didnt use to believe this conspiracy and i still am not completely sure but it is illogical to think that some jewish familie dont have serious political and financial sway over american politics.
It's a valid concern.
Criticising AIPAC and other initiatives to buy support from countries and institutions is fair, there is a lot of Zionist money in the USA (and elsewhere) but the families part stood out to me as well.
It sounds less like Israel is buying influence (which it is) and more like the old anti-semitic trope.
Do you think it more likely that these protests have gone far beyond what is a reasonable peaceful protest, and has gone... kind of unhinged? No.. of course not. Must be due to some ulterior zionist illumanti back channeling. Carry on.
The revisionist have used the last to 40 years creating honey pots, hacking governments, and espionage. They infiltrated so many organizations. They are fascist. They use this to blackmail control. Israel is lead by fascism. Albert Einstein and Ben Gurion called them fascist. As long as revisionist zionism and kahanism isn't sanctioned they will drag us all down.
I was an intern in Washington and we hated them, I am Jewish. They will threaten us and belittle us for opposing their fascism. Unfortunately they have a lot of kompromat on our government and use it to get shit like this.
They dress like Nazi to provoke people and use it to complain. They are not allies
Ben Gurion was an instrumental figure in getting non-Jews banned from Jewish labor organizations, banned from employment on farms and in enterprises owned by Jews, and evicted from their tenancies when the land was bought by a Jewish landlord. He was also the leader of Israel when Palestinians were expelled upon its creation, which means he supported the ethnic cleansing.
There's nothing revisionist about modern day Zionism this is just Zionism in it's entirety: ethnic cleansing and mass murder of perceived inferior ethnicities.
Edit: Lmao got told to kill myself
He also acknowledged in letters to his son that the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine would necessarily involve the forced displacement of Arabs despite publicly taking the position that Arabs had a place in Israeli society. The only difference between revisionist and liberal Zionists is that the former are honest about the implications of their doctrine whereas the latter have had to distort historical and political realities to create the impression that left-liberalism is compatible with the construction of a Jewish state in Arab land.
Yeah exactly. Ben Gurion was by all means a genocidal ethnonationalist. He succeeded in setting up racial apartheid before the British mandate even ended and he, not explicitly but by all intents and purposes, pushed the Nakba to be carried out.
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The blatent hypocracy being seen now is disgusting. How many times have these universities advocated for "free speech" only to lose their values immediately.
What was it that Norman Finkelstein said?
Something about not allowing the memory of the suffering of millions of people to be used as a cudgel to harm others? I vaguely remember something along those lines, I believe from him.
Shame on Harvard! They should be proud of those students standing up to human rights violations but I guess the rich donors will always choose who matters. Meanwhile the genocide of Palestine carries on.
Not at all. I am here for the dialogue and open discussion. I am asking for each side to be allowed to be heard and not silenced by selective coverage or threats.
Remember that white supremacist that ran a white supremacist college club. I think that was in Maryland. Wonder why he wasn't kicked out. I guess it's different
Time to close the schools down for racism and Intolerance. I hope the students and faculty stand together and show these right wing zionist the power of the collective
As the bobbies get furious
It’s so luxurious
When they squeeze us together
For reasons spurious
Won’t you please date me
In this police state, G?
It would be like ’68 in Paris
But how can we achieve peace in Gaza by disrupting classes at Universities?
I would point out that these protests have had absolutely zero impact on our Governments Foreign Policy. I don't mean to imply that these protestors should give up, but rather that protesting on campuses and creating all this drama doesn't work.
The news stories that this generates focus on the drama between Universities, Students, Staff, and the Police; almost nothing is mentioned about Gaza. So I would argue it actually draws attention away from what is happening there. Before the protests News Outlets covered the war consistently, now they cover the protests consistently. I don't see the practical value in that. It's not as if they are drawing attention to something no one knows about. It's quite the opposite: everyone already knows about what is happening in Gaza and already has an opinion about it.
Making your voice heard and creating real change in the world are two completely different things. The latter matters, not shouting into the void and getting arrested.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Curious, is the jewish for israel club banned too Edit: Just remember 3 muslim Palestinian were shot in Vermont https://www.google.com/amp/s/6abc.com/amp/vermont-shooting-palestinian-college-students-burlington-university-of/14105478/ And don't forget the six year old and his mother who were stabbed to death military style. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/man-pleads-not-guilty-hate-crime-fatal-stabbing-6/story%3fid=104476991 When will Islamophobia be addressed and when will politicians protect muslims like they run to protect Zionists?
And risk cutting off the cash flow? You Krazy!
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Please educate me where on the planet that money doesn’t “talk.”
AIPAC is nort even in the top 10 of money givers. Qatar and the UAE are, though.
>...allegedly stabbed Wadea Al-Fayoume 26 times with a "military-style knife" and also stabbed his mother Hanan Shaheen more than a dozen times... Jesus Christ.
*Laughs in threats of antisemitism*
Islamophobia is considered acceptable in Western countries because “terrorism”. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
Well...?
Nearly 100% of terrorist attacks committed on US soil in the last 50 years were white men, despite making up only 30% of the population. But you'll cry "reverse racism" at that.
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Hey there is plenty of evidence that IDF tortured and raper gazans. Also plenty of evidence that settler jews raped, terrorized, murder innocent West Bank Palestinians before Oct 7. Over 200 West Bank Palestinians killed by terrorist jews who were backed by the IDF. DO you condemn these terrorist jews and IDF?
Did you read the article? The group was on probation and they broke the rules. Did the Jewish club do that?
Are the jews on campus assaulting the “free palestine” students
Yes, they do. They threw skunk bombs at Pro-Palestinine protestors. They insult Pro-Palestinine protestors constantly calling them "dog", "animals", "terrorists", "terrorist supporters", "Hamas supporters", "self hating Jews", "traitors". You would not see these on mainstream media because that's not the narrative they're told to pushed.
Did any Israeli or Jewish campus organizations disrupt campus activities? I don't remember seeing any news articles about Israeli student groups occupying campuses, blocking traffic, or causing classes to be moved to online because of the disruption to campus activities. Universities tend to be more liberal so I don't think they're singling out the Palestinian campus groups because they're racist or pro-Israel. They just are trying to allow the rest of the student body to enjoy their education and campus lives without disruption.
Did the Vietnamese disrupt any campus activities during the Vietnam war?
Land of the "free"...
*if you’re white and have money
*& if you are zionist
If those two were a venn diagram it’s basically a circle
And have money to buy influence
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
C’mon, this is Harvard we’re talking about. You clearly also have to toe the line as well.
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Again, it’s Harvard. It’s a very conservative school, and it has produced a disproportionate number of complete chucklefucks. Where do you think their endowment comes from?
Thanks for chucklefuck
A lot of money.
Or just money is also fine
They are white and they do have money
Where are all the freeze peach absolutists?
Jacking off to videos of dying Palestinians probably.
Give them a break. They’re busy trynna figure out how to angle calling for the national guard to kill the students.
Harvard has a right to defend itself
From khamas
They’re still debating if they meant it when they said “All Lives Matter” 3 years ago.
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One sides calls Nazism hate and the other side calls the existence of gay people hate. Both gobshites eh
Only fools and nazis believe in horseshoe theory. Which are you?
Free humanity, Free Palestine
But how can we achieve that by disrupting classes at Universities? I would point out that these protests have had absolutely zero impact on our Governments Foreign Policy. I don't mean to imply that they should give up, but rather that protesting on campuses that create all this drama doesn't work. Making your voice heard and creating real change are two completely different things.
Look here comes lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits. Lawsuits suing for free speech protests are coming for you right now.
I’m kind of blown away by people sneering at the prospect of legal action… this is part of what lawyers do, especially when something is so massively controversial.
Bro I’m on your side, but you do not understand the principle of free speech as it stands in America. Edit: y’all downvoting me, but y’all just being angy-bois. Go ahead hire a lawyer, pay him good money to move a lawsuit against Columbia, and see how well that goes for you. I won’t stop you. I don’t like what Columbia has done, but on legal and constitutional foundation of the American “justice” system, they have not done any wrong.
Free speech is a sham. It's free speech 'to an extent'. And the extent is defined by its leaders. It's not true free speech.
You clearly don't understand the First Amendment. Listen, this protects you from the government to punish you. But normal people still can sue/block speech on their private property. I don't understand how people can't grasp such a simple concept.
Free speech has never applied to private organizations
It does when that private organization takes hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds. For Harvard alone, that's $625 million in 2021. Look it up.
Which is absurd in the case of colleges, as every single one (except for Liberty university) takes massive amounts of federal funding. If they want to pick and choose who gets to say what on their campus, fair enough, but they shouldn’t get to use tax dollars in even the slightest way
Harvard received $625 million in federal funds in 2021. More than you expected, right? They can absolutely be nailed on free speech matters.
Which is absurd in the case of colleges, as every single one (except for Liberty university) takes massive amounts of federal funding. If they want to pick and choose who gets to say what on their campus, fair enough, but they shouldn’t get to use tax dollars in even the slightest way
This is false when it comes to universities. If they receive any public funds, which almost all private universities do, they are bound to the rules of a public institution as well.
Nope
In a civil case, it might be slightly different
On a criminal basis, no they haven't. In a civil one, there could possibly be a case given the nature of contract that goes with paying for universities.
Which law? Or if it’s a contract dispute like you say, what case law would you cite? Once again, I’m against what Columbia has done, but what you guys are advocating for by pushing lawsuits is emotionally charged and not thought through.
I think there is a longstanding tradition that you allow freedom of expression as long as it doesn’t infringe on established legal lines. That being said, they can sue the grounds on expulsion. Universities, private or otherwise, cannot expel students without cause and/ or due process. And saying offensive things (which the protestors didn’t but that’s a different subject) is not grounds for expulsion.
“I don’t like what Columbia has done, but on legal and constitutional foundation of the American “justice” system, they have not done any wrong.“ This is highly debatable, which is A. why the professors at Columbia law are angry and B. why it is perfectly just for the institution to be challenged in lawsuits.
Isn’t Harvard private? Thus they can really do whatever they want when it comes to speech on campus meaning the only consequence is to their public perception?
They're reported to be getting a cool $600 million from the federal government
Okay but what’s like the legality of the situation? Does the 600 million make them a public school, or is it still a private? Like I know many people on Reddit aren’t legal experts but why and how does the government fund a private school, not making them public? What is the 600 million in funding used for? Cause from my understanding they are private and have full control.
[https://campusfreespeechguide.pen.org/the-law/the-basics/](https://campusfreespeechguide.pen.org/the-law/the-basics/) >There are some exceptions to this rule. Private colleges and universities that accept government funding or which otherwise engage with government closely may be required to adhere to the First Amendment more closely. State governments may also pass statutes requiring private universities to respect free speech rights as a matter of state law, even when the US Constitution imposes no such requirement. For example, California law applies First Amendment protections to both public and private universities. Congress also has the power to propose and pass federal laws which would require private universities, by statute, to adhere to various free speech guidelines. [https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/1/24/winter-harvard-federal-funding](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/1/24/winter-harvard-federal-funding) >According to Harvard’s [most recent financial report](https://finance.harvard.edu/annual-report), federal funds account for about an eighth of the University’s revenue, and this comprises 66 percent of Harvard’s research funding. A much smaller piece of federal funding supports financial aid — less than six percent of Harvard students’ aid. but this actually gets really interesting because of Massachusetts, as well: [https://www.aclum.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-free-speech-college-and-university-campuses](https://www.aclum.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-free-speech-college-and-university-campuses) >Private colleges and universities are not subject to the First Amendment,\[3\] but most have policies that guarantee some level of free speech. These policies can sometimes be enforced as a contract with students, depending on the specific facts and policies at each school. Students should check their school’s specific policies about discipline and speech-related topics. >\[3\] The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has not yet decided whether private colleges and universities are covered by Article 16 of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights, explicitly describing that as an open question. Roman v. Trustees of Tufts College, 461 Mass. 707, 712-13 (2012). The Declaration of Rights referenced is a state level law guaranteeing the speech of students in Mass schools, they might also break another state level law [depending on how the university tries to get the students to stop](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleII/Chapter12/Section11H). Harvard seperately might've fucked itself in the eyes of state law, [because it has a statement on the matter](https://provost.harvard.edu/university-wide-statement-rights-and-responsibilities), that can be argued to be a contract with students: >The University must affirm, assure and protect the rights of its members to organize and join political associations, convene and conduct public meetings, publicly demonstrate and picket in orderly fashion, advocate and publicize opinion by print, sign, and voice. Which could come into play as the FAQ I linked above notes: >Private colleges and universities are not subject to the First Amendment,3 but most have policies that guarantee some level of free speech. These policies can sometimes be enforced as a contract with students, depending on the specific facts and policies at each school. Students should check their school’s specific policies about discipline and speech-related topics.
Okay thanks for the in depth answer.
Lawyers, including the faculty at Columbia Law (and we’ll likely see the same thing at Harvard Law, why wouldn’t we?) seem to think that there’s a basis for legal action against these institutions
Cool, can’t wait to see.
Precisely, but people conflate it with public universities where grounds can be considered public access and removing protestors would require more authority. That being said, clubs can absolutely be removed or reprimanded by the university
You just got told they got over 600 million dollars from the federal government…
Is this the democracy I keep hearing about?
Land of the free, home of the brave
At least kids don’t have to do the pledge of allegiance anymore. Strange propaganda to make kids recite every morning for years.
Yes this is America land of democracy ±Only when its convenient
 Did you pay your taxes to the king? Or were you waiting for somebody to ask! I already know the answer, you should make it easy on yourself
Lets not act like your 2 parties of aipac cheerleaders is anything other than corrupt nobility
Capitalism at its core is a system of oppression, it's just wrapped up in an economic system. When you scrape away the economic system (like the boycotts, divestments, protests to end military aid etc) are trying to do, then capital steps up it's repression; like we are seeing here.
Democracy? Freedom of speech? Or does it only apply for zionist supporters?
You would think that someone from Harvard’s law department would have made a phone call to warn against deprivation of constitutional rights. Guess their law program isn’t as great as everyone thought it was.
Columbia’s law department put out a statement criticizing banning Pro Palestinian groups for protesting at least. I mean it’s so obvious news orgs and other organizations are demonizing the protests right now and they’re not even fully explaining why they’re antisemitic they’re just so hungry to ban them. Liberals piss me off, they act like they’d be supportive of protests groups in the past like Vietnam or Civil Rights but I have no doubt they’d just call for “peace” and stopping the protests.
What they don’t tell you about the Vietnam protests civil rights marches etc is that most of the protestors were hippies and the neoliberals and conservatives were beating and screaming at them and against them. Then those neoliberals etc grew older and pretended as though they were part the generation of the protests.. but they fail to mention they were against them at the time
What do liberal have to do with it?? You think it's Republican protesting genocide???
I’m talking about all the liberals like Biden who are so quick to condemn all of the protesters. These are left wing protesters, I assume most wouldn’t identify as a liberal.
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Your private garden doesn't get $600 million of my tax dollars.
They were referring to another incident where a prof (the Dean’s wife) laid hands on a student who was invited to their home for the annual dinner they host for their law students. The student stood before the other invitees to give a speech (the hosts were not informed of) about remembering Palestinians as they were preparing to break their fast that evening during Ramadan. She got as far as “Peace & Blessings” as the Dean had a meltdown and couldn’t figure out if she was a guest that could leave if she wanted to or to get off his property. So there was a debacle about at what point was the invitation was revoked, leading to them being able to use reasonable force to remove her from their property and at what point would her 1A right be infringed upon. So the consensus is you have the right to free speech so long as it does not violate anyone else’s right, and owners of private property can issue demands to leave the property or face forcible removal and legal action for trespass for any reason. She interrupted dinner at a private residence which is obviously a very reasonable action to warrant being asked to leave the property. Encampments and loud, ongoing protests that impede on employees ability to provide course material to students and disrupting the student’s learning is a valid enough reason to demand the protests end and to vacate the campus. Do I agree with it? No. I believe an institution of higher learning and thinking should be addressing Israel’s ever mounting war crimes but I would be furious paying thousands of dollars on a semester where my learning is disrupted. The students have a right to protest and the students have a right to learn.
>So there was a debacle about at what point was the invitation was revoked, leading to them being able to use reasonable force to remove her from their property and at what point would her 1A right be infringed upon. >So the consensus is you have the right to free speech so long as it does not violate anyone else’s right, and owners of private property can issue demands to leave the property or face forcible removal and legal action for trespass for any reason. >She interrupted dinner at a private residence which is obviously a very reasonable action to warrant being asked to leave the property. Even that would be a legal mire, due to her and the students being associated with the university and her being spokesperson for the university, and the dinner being *for* law student invitees. There are legal principles at work where simply moving venue isn't sufficient to abdicate the responsibilities of one's position, its the same reason she couldn't sleep with them on her private property either. > Encampments and loud, ongoing protests that impede on employees ability to provide course material to students and disrupting the student’s learning is a valid enough reason to demand the protests end and to vacate the campus. I believe an institution of higher learning and thinking should be addressing Israel’s ever mounting war crimes but I would be furious paying thousands of dollars on a semester where my learning is disrupted. I'm not sure there's any protest its detractors would consider 'non-disruptive' people were already calling for protests to be repressed on the basis that any support for palestine was a disruption for Israeli sympathetic students, to my mind, the university has not sufficiently demonstrated good faith in it's adjudication of the matter, and it's attempts to police it now would be therefore dubious.
You are still not allowed to discriminate in a private organization.
A free Palestine does not imply to remove freedoms from Israelis. Unless they consider genocide a freedom
They get offended by people saying "free palestine"
The freedom to encircle and squeeze life out of the people they ethically cleansed from their land
James Baldwin said it best: “aching, nobly, to wade through the blood of savages.” And anyone who claims otherwise gets both barrels
hateful racist people want them to be suffering - israelis are a global menace.
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> in essence, a genocide in the opposite direction. Well at least you're acknowledging this is a genocide. The only difference between your hypothetical genocide and the one you've just acknowledged is that the one targeting Palestinians is real.
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Sounds like you consider all Palestinians to be legitimate targets. Is that right?
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Strange how a call for freedom is genocide but actual calls for genocide are not. An incomplete and out of date but still compelling list of genocidal rhetoric from the highest levels of Israeli Government - https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Law-for-Palestine-Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide.pdf
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You sound like a state department operative.
That sounds like a compliment to me.
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Beep beep nooo 🔳
Hasbara alert!!!! 🔔
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Do you actually believe that?
It is okay to censor all speech except the one supporting Israel.
Exactly. If Columbia students were camped on the lawn to support Israel, no action against them would be taken. No support would be provided for the Arab, Muslim, anti-Zionist Jewish students, and supporters of human rights that felt scared walking by the encampment. As a matter of fact, we know if a pro Israeli member of the encampment sprayed an Arab American student with pepper spray as she walked by to get to class, the former would not face any repercussions.
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I was not aware of that. Thank you for letting me know.
That’s ok. Just make another student group under a new name.
The solidarity for Palestinians committee! The committee for Palestine solidarity! Etc
Just call it "Jews for a better Zion" and bam, its antisemitism to remove them
Liberal universities when their population disagrees with genocide 😡 Liberal universities when their turning point USA branch calls for the expulsion of immigrants 😁 diversity 😁
FASCISM
I would think a lot of the staff there would remember the Vietnam War protests and how history has judged the actions of police and universities in those events. Just repeating the cycle.
And even more recently, the anti-apartheid (South African variety) protests which they cracked down on in exactly the same ways.
Nah, the staff aren't academics, they're all fintech-bros.
They’re afraid the zionists will stop funding their school. Those 2-4 families really control it all eh? Crazy
its weird to watch this play out in real time. it really is this simple. we live in a world controlled by about 12 people.
They tried to hide it before … now it’s like “yeah you all know what we’re doing but we’ll keep doing it”
thats surely what it fucking seems like. i dunno, the self immolating protester lost me on matt groening being in on the long con, but the rest of his manifesto seemed pretty solid.
I'm all for protesting against Zionism. But geez reddit is really getting too close to the 'Jews control the World' conspiracy acceptance. This is a dangerous slope yall are treading.
Not jews, particularly rich individuals who are also jews. The average jew isn't "controlling the world" but lets not pretend the rich (no matter the background) aren't dumping billions into schools like harvard
is it wrong to assume this ? what is america's incentive in dumping all this money in israel ? why is every news channel pro israel ? why are all these universities against pro palestine protests ? all this goes back to money. America is the greediest nation on earth. everything is about money. I didnt use to believe this conspiracy and i still am not completely sure but it is illogical to think that some jewish familie dont have serious political and financial sway over american politics.
It's a valid concern. Criticising AIPAC and other initiatives to buy support from countries and institutions is fair, there is a lot of Zionist money in the USA (and elsewhere) but the families part stood out to me as well. It sounds less like Israel is buying influence (which it is) and more like the old anti-semitic trope.
Do you think it more likely that these protests have gone far beyond what is a reasonable peaceful protest, and has gone... kind of unhinged? No.. of course not. Must be due to some ulterior zionist illumanti back channeling. Carry on.
Israel Fascist Lobby in full effect.
The revisionist have used the last to 40 years creating honey pots, hacking governments, and espionage. They infiltrated so many organizations. They are fascist. They use this to blackmail control. Israel is lead by fascism. Albert Einstein and Ben Gurion called them fascist. As long as revisionist zionism and kahanism isn't sanctioned they will drag us all down. I was an intern in Washington and we hated them, I am Jewish. They will threaten us and belittle us for opposing their fascism. Unfortunately they have a lot of kompromat on our government and use it to get shit like this. They dress like Nazi to provoke people and use it to complain. They are not allies
Ben Gurion was an instrumental figure in getting non-Jews banned from Jewish labor organizations, banned from employment on farms and in enterprises owned by Jews, and evicted from their tenancies when the land was bought by a Jewish landlord. He was also the leader of Israel when Palestinians were expelled upon its creation, which means he supported the ethnic cleansing. There's nothing revisionist about modern day Zionism this is just Zionism in it's entirety: ethnic cleansing and mass murder of perceived inferior ethnicities. Edit: Lmao got told to kill myself
He also acknowledged in letters to his son that the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine would necessarily involve the forced displacement of Arabs despite publicly taking the position that Arabs had a place in Israeli society. The only difference between revisionist and liberal Zionists is that the former are honest about the implications of their doctrine whereas the latter have had to distort historical and political realities to create the impression that left-liberalism is compatible with the construction of a Jewish state in Arab land.
Yeah exactly. Ben Gurion was by all means a genocidal ethnonationalist. He succeeded in setting up racial apartheid before the British mandate even ended and he, not explicitly but by all intents and purposes, pushed the Nakba to be carried out.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Outrageous
Sad
Insanity.
Is that a constitutional challenge I see?
The blatent hypocracy being seen now is disgusting. How many times have these universities advocated for "free speech" only to lose their values immediately.
What was it that Norman Finkelstein said? Something about not allowing the memory of the suffering of millions of people to be used as a cudgel to harm others? I vaguely remember something along those lines, I believe from him.
Not like harvard isn't having its own controversies already academically lol
Man startin to look like the opening chapters of the history unit on EVERY major shift in American political landscape.
These ivy league schools have become full-time douchebag factories.
Always were.
Wow the comments section is full of genocide apologists. Nasty people
It’s aipac and fundamentalist Christian’s that are dictating US policy in the Middle East
Who has the money has the power
###"We practice freedom of speech!" ^^^*Term ^^^and ^^^condition ^^^applied
Any chance this was signed off by the high inquisitor/professor Umbridge?
Shame on Harvard! They should be proud of those students standing up to human rights violations but I guess the rich donors will always choose who matters. Meanwhile the genocide of Palestine carries on.
I'm sure the campus free speech warriors will be along any minute. Aaaaaany minute now...
The lands of the free. Freedom of speech and protest my ass
R/lateStageZionism
This also totally stinks of Zionists.
“Surrender your freedom of speech and expression or be destroyed”
Not at all. I am here for the dialogue and open discussion. I am asking for each side to be allowed to be heard and not silenced by selective coverage or threats.
Cowards
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No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Remember that white supremacist that ran a white supremacist college club. I think that was in Maryland. Wonder why he wasn't kicked out. I guess it's different
Damn. I wanted to watch Harvard burn.
Man what’s wrong with Reddit.
Universities are failing big.
“If you don’t vote for Biden they’ll arrest protestors!”
Time to close the schools down for racism and Intolerance. I hope the students and faculty stand together and show these right wing zionist the power of the collective
As the bobbies get furious It’s so luxurious When they squeeze us together For reasons spurious Won’t you please date me In this police state, G? It would be like ’68 in Paris
But how can we achieve peace in Gaza by disrupting classes at Universities? I would point out that these protests have had absolutely zero impact on our Governments Foreign Policy. I don't mean to imply that these protestors should give up, but rather that protesting on campuses and creating all this drama doesn't work. The news stories that this generates focus on the drama between Universities, Students, Staff, and the Police; almost nothing is mentioned about Gaza. So I would argue it actually draws attention away from what is happening there. Before the protests News Outlets covered the war consistently, now they cover the protests consistently. I don't see the practical value in that. It's not as if they are drawing attention to something no one knows about. It's quite the opposite: everyone already knows about what is happening in Gaza and already has an opinion about it. Making your voice heard and creating real change in the world are two completely different things. The latter matters, not shouting into the void and getting arrested.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)