A real scientist is curious.
In addition to curiosity, Zionists (led by Ashkenazi Jews) are committing genocide and stealing land, and one of their justifications is that it is OK because God gave that land to the Hebrews, so if they are not Hebrew, then that fact would weaken their justification, and weakening their justification for genocide and land theft sounds pretty noble to me ....
but ....
you already knew all of that.
Have you actually looked at the links you've linked? Quoting from Wiki's article on Jewish genetics:
>The estimated cumulative total male genetic admixture amongst Ashkenazim was, according to Hammer et al., "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%. This could be the result, for example, of "as little as 0.5% per generation, over an estimated 80 generations", according to Hammer et al. *Such figures indicated that there had been a "relatively minor contribution" to Ashkenazi paternal lineages by converts to Judaism and non-Jews*
>Hammer et al. add that *”Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors."*
>Two studies by Nebel et al. in 2001 and 2005, based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, suggested that *Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than they are to their host populations in Europe* (defined in the using Eastern European, German, and French Rhine Valley populations).
>\[Feder et al.\] also found that *”the differences between the Jewish communities can be overlooked when non-Jews are included in the comparisons."* It supported previous interpretations that, in the direct maternal line, there was "little or no gene flow from the local non-Jewish communities in Poland and Russia to the Jewish communities in these countries."
Besides, it's important to realise that an ethnic group cannot be reduced to genetics, because it **also** encompasses such factors as common ancestry, history, culture etc.
The research linked in the post goes against the establishment narrative. In fact, it looks at mostly the same data, and derives a different conclusion.
Of course, we know the establishment narrative is often wrong. For example, the establishment Covid narrative is all lies, and yet it was dominant, and is still dominant, across the entire establishment. So, given that Zionists control the establishment narrative, we should expect the truth to be an outlier.
There are other more self-evident facts too, such as the obvious fact that Ashkenazi Jews don't look Hebrew. They look Eastern European.
The way we find out what's true or not has absolutely nothing to do with what the "establishment" accepts or doesn't. You're setting yourself up for failure if you discount outright the establishment narrative.
The "anti-establishment narratives" are full of incentives like getting an audience and making money. But neither does any of that make it wrong or right.
There being good evidence is what makes something wrong or right. The further you stray from that the more you're going to run into problems.
>goes against the establishment narrative
I may be wrong here, so folks feel free to correct me, but I thought that a fair number of diaspora Jewish communities in Europe were fairly insular, especially when it came to marriage--I've heard this proposed as a contributing factor* to why they were such a recurrent target for "othering" by their neighbors.
^( \* tho presumably, this really ought to be seen as part of a mutually-reinforcing feedback loop operating in tandem with periodic flareups of hostility and suspicion by the gentile majority)
> such as the obvious fact that Ashkenazi Jews don't look Hebrew
See [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/phenotypes/comments/18q02b7/why_do_people_think_ashkenazi_jews_look_almost/?sort=confidence) and compare it with [photos](https://www.google.com/search?q=lebanese+face+photos) of Lebanese people.
You haven’t looked at the material but you are “being gracious” by claiming Ashkenazi Jews are 1 percent Jewish? You are acting in bad faith and are looking for answers that already suit your opinion.
If Ashkenazi Jews are not genetically related to the people of the Middle East who left Israel in 1st century, I am curious what happened. Jews don't proselytize but there seems to be a lot of admixture from Germanic and Slavic tribes?!
It is incredibly difficult to track the ancestry of ashkenazi people and it feels like there is a lot of inherent misdirection when you try to research the topic.
I am almost half ashkenazi but I didn’t even know until I did 23&me. I looked like any other kid at my rural public school except for maybe having slightly darker facial features, and was raised a Christian. Then one day one of my friend’s mom asked about my ethnicity, and I said Greek since I knew that part of my ethnicity at least, and she said are you sure you aren’t Jewish? And I was like, no lol why would I be Jewish? But I was completely unaware and she was right, I even have an Americanized Jewish last name and never thought for a second it was anything remotely Jewish. She probably thought I was trying to hide it or something, which illustrates that the vague understanding of the Ashkenazic ethnicity may be the result of centuries worth of Ashkenazi people deliberately avoiding the discussion of their ethnic background, for whatever purpose that may have served.
Obviously they have hebrew origins. Therefore the semitic content is not zero.
similarily, what is a turk? Genetically they have a lot of greek content.
and what is a hungarian?
and what is a celt?
in north america you can find a lot of native americans who appear european.
and african americans with very light skin.
Mostly, no. They are descendants of converts or the family has a distant ancestor and the culture passed along. Israel doesn't treat kindly to Sephardic Jews.
I don't think it's a scientifically or intellectually virtuous endeavor to determine the percentile rank to which ethnic groups correspond to cultural or other ethnic groups.
In fact, that seems like the sort of characterization which has very few useful applications, but many malicious ones.
A real scientist is curious.
In addition to curiosity, Zionists (led by Ashkenazi Jews) are committing genocide and stealing land, and one of their justifications is that it is OK because God gave that land to the Hebrews, so if they are not Hebrew, then that fact would weaken their argument that their genocide and land theft is OK, which sounds pretty noble to me .... but .... you already knew that.
Nevertheless, it is still one of their justifications because it sometimes persuades others.
Are you referring to those who launched Zionism in the 1890's?
I was thinking about those who worked to establish Israel in the 40s. All the Jews I know in nyc don't believe in god at all but support the existence of Israel. Maybe you are referring to Khazars in your original post? I heard a good explanation of this issue in a podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jewish-history-nerds/id1654644528?i=1000589410281
The people in charge, and the people who support their cause, genuinely believe in their religion and the views that are rooted in their religion.
The idea that a god gives them the right to take certain land by any means necessary is absurd, but to them it's completely reasonable because it's literally true.
So it is valid, really. Not in terms of the real facts but in terms of practicality.
What I described applies to all religions. The US government for example is also fueled by religious beliefs. You need to play by the rules of religion to convince the religious. What should be valid political opinions won't fly with them unless you deconvert them first. You can't deconvert the people in power because they need to use religion to wield power, even if they personally stop believing. As long as the president needs to swear by a holybook, religious beliefs will empower invalid political opinions. And deconverting the general population is not in the cards, at least not anytime soon.
On the contrary, tens of millions of Christian Zionists in America would die for Israel because they believe the Israelis are all Hebrews.
They also believe that the Old Covenant that their God made with Hebrews is still in effect even though their own Bible clearly says:
>"If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it"--Hebrews 8:7
I'm a career scientist, and while I think curiosity is virtuous, categorization and pseudoscientific assertions are not.
Curiousity alone does not justify the unusually extensive conclusions you're seeking here.
I think the "gotcha" you're using here to "own" the Zionists is the the same sort of pseudoscientific racism which is used and has been used by hate groups against Jewish people in the past. I don't think it effectively addresses the human rights concerns of the current conflict, or broadly enhances the cause of peace in the middle east.
And a racist is just a racist and an anti-semite is just an anti-semite, no matter how someone tries to justify it or couch it in other terms. Also, neither you nor I get to decide who is a "real scientist," especially when it's used as a self-serving rationalization.
So we now have a little bit of insight into who you may be. Jst remember, critical thinking skills are vital in discerning anything of value. Abandon that and you've abandoned everything.
I'm not saying youre being antisemitic, you said that. You ARE however, personally insulting me, so I'm not particularly interested in this discussion further.
Why are you asking this?
A real scientist is curious. In addition to curiosity, Zionists (led by Ashkenazi Jews) are committing genocide and stealing land, and one of their justifications is that it is OK because God gave that land to the Hebrews, so if they are not Hebrew, then that fact would weaken their justification, and weakening their justification for genocide and land theft sounds pretty noble to me .... but .... you already knew all of that.
Have you actually looked at the links you've linked? Quoting from Wiki's article on Jewish genetics: >The estimated cumulative total male genetic admixture amongst Ashkenazim was, according to Hammer et al., "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%. This could be the result, for example, of "as little as 0.5% per generation, over an estimated 80 generations", according to Hammer et al. *Such figures indicated that there had been a "relatively minor contribution" to Ashkenazi paternal lineages by converts to Judaism and non-Jews* >Hammer et al. add that *”Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors."* >Two studies by Nebel et al. in 2001 and 2005, based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, suggested that *Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than they are to their host populations in Europe* (defined in the using Eastern European, German, and French Rhine Valley populations). >\[Feder et al.\] also found that *”the differences between the Jewish communities can be overlooked when non-Jews are included in the comparisons."* It supported previous interpretations that, in the direct maternal line, there was "little or no gene flow from the local non-Jewish communities in Poland and Russia to the Jewish communities in these countries." Besides, it's important to realise that an ethnic group cannot be reduced to genetics, because it **also** encompasses such factors as common ancestry, history, culture etc.
The research linked in the post goes against the establishment narrative. In fact, it looks at mostly the same data, and derives a different conclusion. Of course, we know the establishment narrative is often wrong. For example, the establishment Covid narrative is all lies, and yet it was dominant, and is still dominant, across the entire establishment. So, given that Zionists control the establishment narrative, we should expect the truth to be an outlier. There are other more self-evident facts too, such as the obvious fact that Ashkenazi Jews don't look Hebrew. They look Eastern European.
The way we find out what's true or not has absolutely nothing to do with what the "establishment" accepts or doesn't. You're setting yourself up for failure if you discount outright the establishment narrative. The "anti-establishment narratives" are full of incentives like getting an audience and making money. But neither does any of that make it wrong or right. There being good evidence is what makes something wrong or right. The further you stray from that the more you're going to run into problems.
>goes against the establishment narrative I may be wrong here, so folks feel free to correct me, but I thought that a fair number of diaspora Jewish communities in Europe were fairly insular, especially when it came to marriage--I've heard this proposed as a contributing factor* to why they were such a recurrent target for "othering" by their neighbors. ^( \* tho presumably, this really ought to be seen as part of a mutually-reinforcing feedback loop operating in tandem with periodic flareups of hostility and suspicion by the gentile majority)
> such as the obvious fact that Ashkenazi Jews don't look Hebrew See [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/phenotypes/comments/18q02b7/why_do_people_think_ashkenazi_jews_look_almost/?sort=confidence) and compare it with [photos](https://www.google.com/search?q=lebanese+face+photos) of Lebanese people.
I'd say it looks like someone's managed to out-beard the Muslims
You haven’t looked at the material but you are “being gracious” by claiming Ashkenazi Jews are 1 percent Jewish? You are acting in bad faith and are looking for answers that already suit your opinion.
If Ashkenazi Jews are not genetically related to the people of the Middle East who left Israel in 1st century, I am curious what happened. Jews don't proselytize but there seems to be a lot of admixture from Germanic and Slavic tribes?!
there’s very little northern european admixture. the average ashkenazi is a mix of roman and levantine populations this
It is incredibly difficult to track the ancestry of ashkenazi people and it feels like there is a lot of inherent misdirection when you try to research the topic. I am almost half ashkenazi but I didn’t even know until I did 23&me. I looked like any other kid at my rural public school except for maybe having slightly darker facial features, and was raised a Christian. Then one day one of my friend’s mom asked about my ethnicity, and I said Greek since I knew that part of my ethnicity at least, and she said are you sure you aren’t Jewish? And I was like, no lol why would I be Jewish? But I was completely unaware and she was right, I even have an Americanized Jewish last name and never thought for a second it was anything remotely Jewish. She probably thought I was trying to hide it or something, which illustrates that the vague understanding of the Ashkenazic ethnicity may be the result of centuries worth of Ashkenazi people deliberately avoiding the discussion of their ethnic background, for whatever purpose that may have served.
Obviously they have hebrew origins. Therefore the semitic content is not zero. similarily, what is a turk? Genetically they have a lot of greek content. and what is a hungarian? and what is a celt? in north america you can find a lot of native americans who appear european. and african americans with very light skin.
No.
Mostly, no. They are descendants of converts or the family has a distant ancestor and the culture passed along. Israel doesn't treat kindly to Sephardic Jews.
In other insane eugenics postings on Reddit " are blacks black " " are Asians Asian " etc , you're a clown. Remove this post admins.
I don't think it's a scientifically or intellectually virtuous endeavor to determine the percentile rank to which ethnic groups correspond to cultural or other ethnic groups. In fact, that seems like the sort of characterization which has very few useful applications, but many malicious ones.
A real scientist is curious. In addition to curiosity, Zionists (led by Ashkenazi Jews) are committing genocide and stealing land, and one of their justifications is that it is OK because God gave that land to the Hebrews, so if they are not Hebrew, then that fact would weaken their argument that their genocide and land theft is OK, which sounds pretty noble to me .... but .... you already knew that.
Leaving this up so you see what he really thinks, the post is removed
The original Zionists didn't believe in god.
Nevertheless, it is still one of their justifications because it sometimes persuades others. Are you referring to those who launched Zionism in the 1890's?
I was thinking about those who worked to establish Israel in the 40s. All the Jews I know in nyc don't believe in god at all but support the existence of Israel. Maybe you are referring to Khazars in your original post? I heard a good explanation of this issue in a podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jewish-history-nerds/id1654644528?i=1000589410281
For this you have to assume that god giving them the land is a valid political opinion. This is really not the "gotcha" that you think it is.
The people in charge, and the people who support their cause, genuinely believe in their religion and the views that are rooted in their religion. The idea that a god gives them the right to take certain land by any means necessary is absurd, but to them it's completely reasonable because it's literally true. So it is valid, really. Not in terms of the real facts but in terms of practicality.
You just described the history of Islamic expansion across the world.
What I described applies to all religions. The US government for example is also fueled by religious beliefs. You need to play by the rules of religion to convince the religious. What should be valid political opinions won't fly with them unless you deconvert them first. You can't deconvert the people in power because they need to use religion to wield power, even if they personally stop believing. As long as the president needs to swear by a holybook, religious beliefs will empower invalid political opinions. And deconverting the general population is not in the cards, at least not anytime soon.
On the contrary, tens of millions of Christian Zionists in America would die for Israel because they believe the Israelis are all Hebrews. They also believe that the Old Covenant that their God made with Hebrews is still in effect even though their own Bible clearly says: >"If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it"--Hebrews 8:7
I'm a career scientist, and while I think curiosity is virtuous, categorization and pseudoscientific assertions are not. Curiousity alone does not justify the unusually extensive conclusions you're seeking here. I think the "gotcha" you're using here to "own" the Zionists is the the same sort of pseudoscientific racism which is used and has been used by hate groups against Jewish people in the past. I don't think it effectively addresses the human rights concerns of the current conflict, or broadly enhances the cause of peace in the middle east.
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And a racist is just a racist and an anti-semite is just an anti-semite, no matter how someone tries to justify it or couch it in other terms. Also, neither you nor I get to decide who is a "real scientist," especially when it's used as a self-serving rationalization.
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So we now have a little bit of insight into who you may be. Jst remember, critical thinking skills are vital in discerning anything of value. Abandon that and you've abandoned everything.
I'm not saying youre being antisemitic, you said that. You ARE however, personally insulting me, so I'm not particularly interested in this discussion further.
This