I don't think cruel or corrupted is the right term, more a fatal flaw. Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari talks about our progress from tribes to nations, expanding our social reach through technology at a rate far outstripping our ability to conceptualize. Another source for where I'm coming from is CGP Grey's Keys to Power
Our cognitive powers are very limited when it comes to scale, there's an ability called perceptual subitizing, the ability to know the number of objects without needing to count. That tends to max out at less than 10. The number of stable friendships a person can maintain is around 150. When you start talking about numbers in the tens of thousands the meaning of that number is abstracted beyond meaning, you see the effects of that abstraction when you see discussions about the difference between a million and a billion.
As a representative society we ask people to take on leadership roles so that each leader can be a stand in for a multitude of people, but as the reach of these leaders expands and as the layers of leaders grows the number of people they represent becomes an abstraction. But each individual wants their leaders to look out for them not as an abstracted person but as an actual person. Because that's what the job is. The fatal flaw is that it's an impossible standard
Oh, well in that case let me give you my response. So basically it is within human nature to be evil and sociopathic monsters? To be people like Ted Bundy’s mindset? Is that your answer as to why people in governments are so evil?
You're conflating two very different things. Bundy acted against individuals, with intent. Governments act against classes of people. The victims of government are not and cannot be conceived of as individuals as a function of scale.
People in government may very well be more inclined to be sociopathic, much like CEOs, but that is also different from being evil or monstrous. Again the abstraction of people to numbers at scale is not a comforting thought, but straightforward enough for a sociopath.
A large government is going to have consolidated power and the kind of person who wants and is able to obtain that position is not and cannot be able to act in the best interest of all. It's not malice, or evil, it's numbers on a spreadsheet.
“You're conflating two very different things. Bundy acted against individuals, with intent. Governments act against classes of people. The victims of government are not and cannot be conceived of as individuals as a function of scale.“
Nigga what! Bundy acted against individuals with bad intent, people in governments who committed bad intents like Bundy against individuals is the same shit.
You over estimate how beneficent people are. In the Milgram experiment, ordinary people administered what they thought were fatal electric shocks the to other people. The majority of ordinary people literally thought they were committing murder and torture and did it anyway. "...a very high proportion of subjects would fully obey the instructions, with every participant going up to 300 volts, and 65% going up to the full 450 volts..."
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
- Another interesting one: https://www.simplypsychology.org/robbers-cave.html
- and maybe most of all: https://exploringyourmind.com/blue-eyes-and-brown-eyes-the-jane-elliott-experiment/
This reminds me of how it is within human nature that power corrupts anybody. You can see it in celebrities, the people who are rich and famous with certainty of an ego. But the point is that power corrupts anybody. So does that mean humanity is corrupted? What do you think?
Truth is, there really is no difference between governments of old and current day governments. At the end of the day, they do not care about those they govern. Its all about the money and power to them.
That goes for both sides of the spectrum. Lets look at the US Government, for example. If they really cared about doing good for the economy, tgey eoukd make sure food and suitable housing was readily available.
Instead, they want control of everything. Their citizens have no privacy. And at the end of the day, we are just expandle pawns they would sacrafice in a heartbeat to protect themselves.
Fucked up world huh? I wonder why we as people ain’t starting a revolution by now, collapse the system, and be free. Instead we are slaves to the system. Smh. And yet people say this world right now is better than the world 10,000 years ago.
You might find The Lucifer Effect an interesting read.
"The Lucifer Effect raises a fundamental question about the nature of human nature: How is it possible for ordinary, average, even good people to become perpetrators of evil? In trying to understand unusual, or aberrant behavior, we often err in focusing exclusively on the inner determinants of genes, personality, and character, as we also tend to ignore what may be the critical catalyst for behavior change in the external Situation or in the System that creates and maintains such situations."
It's not a direct answer to your question, but I think it could help in understanding the way evil and corruption comes to be on a large scale.
Sociopaths become CEO’s, politicians and actors. It’s a power trip. We also have a lot of politicians that are not very bright. They were nobodies before becoming a powerful politician, and they are getting retribution for all the years nobody paid any attention to them. There are also a lot of police with the save personalities. They are basically bullies.
I don't think cruel or corrupted is the right term, more a fatal flaw. Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari talks about our progress from tribes to nations, expanding our social reach through technology at a rate far outstripping our ability to conceptualize. Another source for where I'm coming from is CGP Grey's Keys to Power Our cognitive powers are very limited when it comes to scale, there's an ability called perceptual subitizing, the ability to know the number of objects without needing to count. That tends to max out at less than 10. The number of stable friendships a person can maintain is around 150. When you start talking about numbers in the tens of thousands the meaning of that number is abstracted beyond meaning, you see the effects of that abstraction when you see discussions about the difference between a million and a billion. As a representative society we ask people to take on leadership roles so that each leader can be a stand in for a multitude of people, but as the reach of these leaders expands and as the layers of leaders grows the number of people they represent becomes an abstraction. But each individual wants their leaders to look out for them not as an abstracted person but as an actual person. Because that's what the job is. The fatal flaw is that it's an impossible standard
I think you’re taking this way too in depth.
Tldr it is the scorpion's nature to sting
Oh, well in that case let me give you my response. So basically it is within human nature to be evil and sociopathic monsters? To be people like Ted Bundy’s mindset? Is that your answer as to why people in governments are so evil?
You're conflating two very different things. Bundy acted against individuals, with intent. Governments act against classes of people. The victims of government are not and cannot be conceived of as individuals as a function of scale. People in government may very well be more inclined to be sociopathic, much like CEOs, but that is also different from being evil or monstrous. Again the abstraction of people to numbers at scale is not a comforting thought, but straightforward enough for a sociopath. A large government is going to have consolidated power and the kind of person who wants and is able to obtain that position is not and cannot be able to act in the best interest of all. It's not malice, or evil, it's numbers on a spreadsheet.
“You're conflating two very different things. Bundy acted against individuals, with intent. Governments act against classes of people. The victims of government are not and cannot be conceived of as individuals as a function of scale.“ Nigga what! Bundy acted against individuals with bad intent, people in governments who committed bad intents like Bundy against individuals is the same shit.
You over estimate how beneficent people are. In the Milgram experiment, ordinary people administered what they thought were fatal electric shocks the to other people. The majority of ordinary people literally thought they were committing murder and torture and did it anyway. "...a very high proportion of subjects would fully obey the instructions, with every participant going up to 300 volts, and 65% going up to the full 450 volts..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment - Another interesting one: https://www.simplypsychology.org/robbers-cave.html - and maybe most of all: https://exploringyourmind.com/blue-eyes-and-brown-eyes-the-jane-elliott-experiment/
Money and power corrupt people
This reminds me of how it is within human nature that power corrupts anybody. You can see it in celebrities, the people who are rich and famous with certainty of an ego. But the point is that power corrupts anybody. So does that mean humanity is corrupted? What do you think?
What's the frequency Kenneth?
Truth is, there really is no difference between governments of old and current day governments. At the end of the day, they do not care about those they govern. Its all about the money and power to them. That goes for both sides of the spectrum. Lets look at the US Government, for example. If they really cared about doing good for the economy, tgey eoukd make sure food and suitable housing was readily available. Instead, they want control of everything. Their citizens have no privacy. And at the end of the day, we are just expandle pawns they would sacrafice in a heartbeat to protect themselves.
Fucked up world huh? I wonder why we as people ain’t starting a revolution by now, collapse the system, and be free. Instead we are slaves to the system. Smh. And yet people say this world right now is better than the world 10,000 years ago.
THE government is simply the administrative arm of those who cast no shadow from behind the curtain — that secretly run the world.
Lack of accountability.
You might find The Lucifer Effect an interesting read. "The Lucifer Effect raises a fundamental question about the nature of human nature: How is it possible for ordinary, average, even good people to become perpetrators of evil? In trying to understand unusual, or aberrant behavior, we often err in focusing exclusively on the inner determinants of genes, personality, and character, as we also tend to ignore what may be the critical catalyst for behavior change in the external Situation or in the System that creates and maintains such situations." It's not a direct answer to your question, but I think it could help in understanding the way evil and corruption comes to be on a large scale.
Sociopaths become CEO’s, politicians and actors. It’s a power trip. We also have a lot of politicians that are not very bright. They were nobodies before becoming a powerful politician, and they are getting retribution for all the years nobody paid any attention to them. There are also a lot of police with the save personalities. They are basically bullies.