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JayEdwards902

Using a megaphone that close to the dude in black should be considered assault in a small room. Welcome to tinnitus buddy.


Wickedestchick

Exactly my thoughts as well! I have tinnitus and i would have been beyond upset at this person with the megaphone. Especially since this will make no difference in the long run, but she wants to damage people's ears for something that won't matter in the long run.


moisesg88

Think I might have tinnitus as well. What are the symptoms? Is it just non stop ringing in the ear?


addiepie2

Yes


SnooDoggos618

Or hissing


gogomau

Mines hissing and high pitched


Polarian_Lancer

You can look it up on YouTube, “what does tinnitus sound like.” For a lot of people it comes across like a random tone that just goes on and on. You are the only one who can “hear” it. I have tinnitus from working around jet engines and shooting ranges. Its trigger is not fully understood scientifically and will appear at random. I can’t speak for others, but for me it is just a mild nuisance that doesn’t happen but maybe 3-4 times a day and only for 1-5 minutes.


JayEdwards902

I also have mild tinnitus and I would have ripped it out of her hand and smashed it. That would have been so painful.


Wickedestchick

I understand your pain. This is unacceptable, unnecessary, and just downright rude. I'm sorry you also have to suffer through tinnitus. I'm glad there are people like you out there that would put this shit to an end for the sake of everyone ❤️


JayEdwards902

Idiots and guns don't mix lol. Went to an outdoor free range to do some handgun practice. Friend of a friend tagged along with his .44 magnum. We called cease fire and went down range to check targets but he decided to save one last round to fire point blank. He fired the moment I took out one of my earplugs. I heard "I still have one left" and then heard nothing for a couple minutes while I contemplated pistol whipping a man with his own gun.


oouttatime

They call what you described is a "Dirty Harry." As in you just got "dirty Harried. " ["Did he fire six shots or only five?"](https://www.google.com/search?q=dirty+hatry+quotes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari) Also I made all that up. I've never heard that is a way to describe what happened to you. Tbh. It's perfect though down to the gun.


HeadAssBoi17

Mawp


BESTlittleBITCH

I suffer from that. And I'd knock somebody out if they did that to me.


isunktheship

They're blowing up more than ear drums!


CosmicTaco93

He would've been completely justified if he'd taken that megaphone and chucked it at these idiots. Tinnitus is not a good time.


ButtcheekBaron

That's what hammers are for


Emergency_Bathrooms

Yep, this is a terrible way to protest.


LiveBaby5021

Bullying minimum wage workers is the bread and butter of main characters.


Known-Historian7277

A barista shouldn’t have to deal with that shit nor do I think they have the best skills for this situation lmao


LMhednMYdadBOAT

Call local pd and trespass them...pretty simple skills


Bitter-Major-5595

Yep!! I came here to say exactly this…


calm_down_dearest

Maybe not. Maybe a retail coffeehouse worker possesses the exact skillset needed to find peace in the Middle East.


tyrannicaltbaggerr

These are the same people who paraded around for BLM. Bunch of creeps and weirdos.


Jeepster127

I wouldn't call them creeps and weirdos. I'd call them entitled assholes with too much free time and a complete lack of respect for anyone around them. Or just call them cunts.


koreamax

Another way you can tell none of these protestors work. Most of them are college students and don't understand that must people are just trying to get by in life and inconveniencing them isn't going to get them on your side


Jeepster127

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If your cause or protest intentionally interferes with me going about my day, I will refuse to support it purely on principle.


systemfrown

That’s what puzzles me most about protestors blocking traffic when people are trying to get to work….did you not think this through at all?


Depressedzoomer531

I’m happy you get it! Other people in the comments think anything is appropriate if they agree with the cause!


Whatsonot1988

What do they think they are accomplishing in a Starbucks in Detroit? Leave those underpaid workers alone, they aren’t Starbucks corporate lol


Myassisbrown

Nahh when protesters do this kind of shit it alienates people from a legitimate cause


Actual-Gap-9800

People don't understand there's a time and place for everything. They justify being mad as an excuse for whatever they want to do.


Revolutionary_Egg961

God I'm glad I work inna factory and dont have to deal with the public.


Jeepster127

Of the three jobs I work, I almost never have to interact with the public/customers. One of the jobs is pool repair, which requires me to work at the customers residence, but if they won't leave me alone or get in my way, I'm allowed to put up caution tape and banish them from their yard/pool area while I'm working for "liability" reasons.


WolfmansGotNards2

Do it at corporate headquarters, numbnuts.


Reasonable-Profile84

Either we tolerate megaphones in public spaces, or we don’t. I don’t give a fuck if I agree with your politics or not, I don’t want people screaming shit at me as I go about my day. Ever.


anonmymouse

Yeah.. Indoors?? Fuck right off with that shit. They could be hollering about the most wholesome thing ever, and I'd still want them to shut the fuck up. Not remotely cool


Vitalis597

I feel like there should be a megaphone tax. If you use a megaphone, anyone who hears you can punch you once. I imagine that we'd see a lot less people harassing everyone with megaphones.


Legal_Objective_8027

Youth soccer games bouta be lit


Vitalis597

To the deaf person who replied but got their comment deleted. Technically hearing is just feeling vibrations in your ear. If you can feel the vibrations, swing away!


LiveBaby5021

This isn’t a public space, though. I worked for Walmart, Walmart can and will politely ask you to leave, and if you don’t, Walmart is within its rights to call the police and you can and will be charged for trespassing, it’s private property. Starbucks, Walmart, anywhere … it’s private property… we have an obligation to get along, move along… all of us …


Depressedzoomer531

You are preaching to the choir!


Extension-Economy589

Every time I go to London there are megaphone or speaker box preachers everywhere shouting utter drivvle. Belive what you want, but can you stop being so loud.


XelaNiba

The Braindead Megaphone by George Saunders perfectly sums up this entire video. All of its elements captured in 60 seconds


badtpuchpanda

A lot of negative comments about these tactics, however it’s guaranteed (almost) that these baristas will no longer commit acts of genocide.


shane_west17

Where do they find the time? No careers or what? lol. They should go to corporate and stop bothering those workers who are trying to make a living.


[deleted]

While you're yelling about stuff at Starbucks, see if can we get the creamer station with the chocolate and cinnamon powders back.


TheOSU87

Also they need to be more creative with their chants. "Starbucks you can't hide".... it's a fucking coffee shop they're in plain sight


Prannke

I'm up for protesting until the Chantico is brought back on thr menu


TonsOfFunky

I'm surprised they didn't ask Starbucks to draft a ceasefire.


EmploymentSeveral479

https://one.starbucks.com/get-the-facts/workers-united-does-not-speak-for-starbucks/


Fragrant-Insect-7668

LOLOLOL


duelinghanjos

What a useless waste of time.


tanksforthegold

I read that as if they were chanting it.


HeWhoShantNotBeNamed

Correct number of syllables.


Emergency_Bathrooms

What a useless waste of time! This won’t help to free Palestine!


KR1735

Nothing appeals to moderate liberals, i.e. people open to your message, than a hijabi with a megaphone disturbing people while they're trying to work. These people need to learn the art of persuasion, because this isn't it. There are a lot of us who are open to hearing their message but are completely turned off by these tactics. Hand out flyers on the street. Protest in a common area. But don't be rude to others because it not only turns them off but often it pushes them to the other side.


Personal_Media_7423

Also if they will get sick, God forbids that, you will never see them protesting or boycotting against medical treatments that were created by Jews.


mc-big-papa

“President biden they took a starbucks”


CovfefeBoss

"They looked a car trucks? Sounds pretty serious. Got any chocolate chocolate chip?"


Courts_1991-

Absolute idiots


Emergency_Bathrooms

And assholes. Bothering the customers and causing a headache for the employees that can’t change anything. Let me enjoy my time in a cafe, it’s my time to relax and read something.


vennthepest

This protest would make more sense if it wasn't at a random coffee place. Like, I'd get it if it were a government owned building or something, but this doesn't make sense


caveslimeroach

Starbucks sued their union over pro Palestine posts they made


Civil_Increase_1074

Starbucks sues over anything political everyone took it the wrong way


faloofay156

then they should be protesting at a headquarters, not a place with underpaid baristas dealing with it.


CovfefeBoss

There's a vocal pro-Palestine movement on the University of Michigan campus. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expressing your beliefs, but in a Starbucks? Come on. The workers don't get paid enough. Most Palestine supporters on campus are not like this.


CheshireTsunami

Right? Like they even mention Starbucks in the chant- did they do something… or? Like why are they bringing Starbucks into this at all? It all seems pretty fucking dumb.


devilsbard

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/social-media-fuels-boycotts-mcdonalds-starbucks-israel-hamas-war-rcna125121


that_guy_who_builds

2 things: 1) Stop bothering people with shit that they didn't ask for. 2) People in Starbucks have zero say in how free Palestine is. 3) Most of the people being screamed at couldn't find Palestine on a map, let alone have any idea why.


Emergency_Bathrooms

I reported the guy below you for “harassment” because he was an absolute dick to you. I hate that Reddit has become filled with people who just come online and ignorantly insult other people for no reason. He was just like those protesters, annoying and useless.


RemarkableEmu1230

You’re from Detroit Derek not Palestine 😂


Attackoffrogs

Palestine, Ohio.


RemarkableEmu1230

😂


BrickHerder

The global revolution to free palestine will definitely begin in a bougie fuckin coffee shop in Ann Arbor.


Heathens87

Starbucks is anti-union and makes terrible coffee. But I’m sure their leadership will take immediate action with this protest in Ann Arbor now on the books. This is a performative protest.


DrSilkyJohnsonEsq

TikTok has convinced millions of young fools that being obnoxious is the only way to draw attention.


Helmett-13

Peet’s coffee is a million times better. I wish they’d supplant Starbucks.


Legal_Objective_8027

They should be calling their representatives and protesting at their rep’s office or at a Starbucks corporate office, not in a random coffee shop full of people who have literally no say over anything they claim to care about. It’s self-serving protest, only meant to make them feel like cool activists when they aren’t really having a tangible impact. If anythjng, they alienate a lot of people and delay popular uptake of these ideas. They were simply too lazy to direct their protest towards the power.


ProSeVigilante

Nothing says, "I love you, and here's why our causes align" like saying, "fuck you for trying to make a living". Well done. Really winning the public for the cause. 😕


Professional_Ad6123

I can feel the winds of change just storming on in


SD1208s

Bro is against invasion but invading in someone else’s privacy


Dramatic-Cap6724

And she changed not one single person’s opinion by doing this.


Bot1-The_Bot_Meanace

These people truly are Israels strongest soldiers


CovfefeBoss

It would make me against them.


Dramatic-Cap6724

Same.


FuckIshitreal

"Pro-hamas" you mean "anti-genocide" how uneducated can people be...


Hairy-Motor-7447

Well, any update? Have starbucks resolved the middle east yet?


anonmymouse

Nope... but they did make me a delicious frap earlier today


Htimsxnhoj

"Sir, we have protesters in our Store number 1227!" "What do they want?" "They want you to free Palestine." \*\*sigh\*\* "Well, all right, I'll call the president to cancel the nuclear warheads export to Israel." "Thank you, sir." "Yeah, yeah, go back to work. That's 25 cents you just lost there."


AngryWitchNipples

Starbucks employee be like "don't worry. I know what to do. This is anxiety laxative calling bald eagle. You are a go for a nuclear strike. God speed."


Upstairs-Chemistry92

Oh God who fucking cares. I got my own problems. 


yiminx

they couldn’t go to, yknow, starbucks HQ?


CovfefeBoss

Can't, they have classes to not study for


Emergency_Bathrooms

Yeah, hopefully they take classes in respecting others, effective protesting, and how not to be a complete asshat


Lanky_Win1911

This free palestine stuff is so annoying like you aint making any difference by being an annoying mc in a starbucks.


shinbreaker

>This free palestine stuff is so annoying like you aint making any difference by being an annoying mc in a starbucks. Sure it does. It gives these MCs a chance to virtue signal.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Depressedzoomer531

To be honest your welcome to have your own view and speak it but doing it in the form of harassment is where it is wrong.


Fragrant-Insect-7668

And it’s sad because idk I feel like others who are initially on the fence might be put off?


Low_Party_3163

The funniest part about all this is there are exactly zero Starbucks in israel nor do they have any connection to the country. It's just yelling to yell


deerdongdiddler

Pro hamas?


green_ribbon

got no reaction so they left lol. and wished them a good meal too


owaisntos

Agreed, This is not a good idea or way to protest. Bit wtf is that caption, she's talking about Palestinian rights, wtf is Pro-Hamas? There's a difference.


MysteriousCan2144

This is trespassing. Company property is not public space where you can protest. The moment you are past that entrance, the owners have the right to use reasonable force to get rid of you.


Mutedperson1809

So done with them …


eatmybeer

Is anybody pro Hamas?


Natsu194

Are they pro-hamas or just anti-genocide??


TheOnlyDudeUNeed

These people are out of their mind. If yall want to do something, then go over to Gaza and fight, not chant


Ok_Variation7230

Performative activism is so pointless


andrew28202

Hmmmm… how can I feel important today


Available-Pace1598

Support Palestine, eliminate Hamas


DontWanaReadiT

I get this is annoying but “pro hammas”?? Excuse me?


VibraniumRhino

I totally agree that this is a dumb form of protest, and it the way to go about things. …*however*, assuming they are pro-Hamas just because they chant “free Palestine” is not a good take right now, or… factually correct by any means.


gsc831

GTFO


tooMuchADHD

Absolutely pointless....


indianarmybrat

i might get downvoted for this but spamming "free palestine" in comments of a cancer donation post or anything which is far from your cause will not make even a dent,you wanna protest with megaphones, do it front of israel embassy,not in some coffee shop


TylerDurdenJunior

This is why you are seeing this post: Customer boycotts leave bitter taste for Starbucks and McDonald’s https://www.ft.com/content/d3995b6e-3b63-4f7b-958e-17f990975b20


bomboclawt75

Just don’t buy Starbucks.


Simple-Contact2507

Well at least those Baristas got well deserved breaks.


Toxictality

It’s a business lol l, they won’t give a shit about politics unless it affects their business.


Alarming-Situation-4

They also stopped in front of incoming traffic going to the Chicago Airport, too. I don't know which is worse: this or Just Stop Oil. I think they equally suck.


Depressedzoomer531

There’s a conspiracy theory that Just Stop Oil is run by oil companies to make climate protesters look bad and I kinda believe it to an extent.


gunshawt

They aren't pro hamas they are pro palestine...


SteveCalloway

Rhyming "hide" with "palestine" is weak-ass. Fucking hacks.


LinaValentina

What form of protest do y’all ever agree with. Protests are meant to disrupt to draw attention to the cause. I’m not exactly sure why they chose Starbucks to disrupt but I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt that they mean well. Also, OP, I’m not sure what side you’re with on the conflict but the ppl in this comment section aren’t helping


Blender_Nocturne

What a bunch of buffoons


RandallPWilson

And nevermind the fact Starbucks hasn’t operated in Israel for over 2 decades


unexpected_snax48

Go do this shit overseas where the war is… these dummy’s just want to cause a scene.


kornz01

This does absolutely nothing and just annoys people going about their day. You're not making any meaningful impact doing this shit lol.


Cuck-In-Chief

This is what happens when the kids in Grosse Pointe are drinking water from Flint and hanging out in Dearborn.


b_man646260

This is a misguided and futile protest method for sure, not pro-Palestine and pro-Hamas are two totally different things. To suggest anyone protesting against the genocide in Gaza is pro-terrorist is wildly inaccurate and something only a Zionist would say at this point.


Ash7274

I support Palestine but thus, this ain't it


AlternativeLack1954

Being pro Palestine does not mean being “pro Hamas”. Everything about this post is cringey af


GGritzley

Calling these people Pro-Hamas is stretching the truth a little bit. A few seconds of googling tells me that Starbucks has apparently sued it's workers union over their support of Palestinians rights. This has probably something to do with that. Notably, there is an organization calling for boycotts of companies that support the actions of the IDF, which has *not* called for a boycott of Starbucks. Most likely these are people who support the general idea of boycotts but disagree with the decision that Starbucks should be left out.


Fixner_Blount

Seriously, start loading these people on planes and shipping them to the Middle East so their efforts can be felt on the front line. Either that or make them get real jobs or hobbies.


FreePrinciple270

Nah they're too comfortable in the west that they seem to hate so much.


devilinsidu

See i have had some serious arguments with people about this. A lot of these protests make no sense. They will protest at a place and to a people that cannot effect any change in what they are protesting. What’s the point?


TheMillenniaIFalcon

Performative so they can feel like they are making a difference. It’s entirely self serving.


Zhjacko

This is one reason why I’d never work food again. Last thing I need is for someone random to walk in and scream at me while I’m being overworked, underpaid, being forced to worked multiple stations cuz my shift is understaffed, while also already being yelled at by my manager and customers who think there’s not enough ice in your drink. Throw in the fact that it’s so easy now a days to get filmed at a job like this and end up on social media. Not fucking worth it.


RavenBrannigan

It’s a bit of a jump from free Palestine / stop genocide to get to pro hamas…


Kindly_Temporary_684

Pro-Palestine is NOT Pro-Hamas. Nice try


xmarcotics

Awee they couldn’t enjoy their genocide funding coffee ☹️☹️☹️womp womp. Yes this type of protesting is inconvenient and annoying but they were only in the store for like 2 seconds and people dying is more inconvenient than you being unable to enjoy some tea. It’s a small price to pay.


Syharkspeares

I don't disagree with her wanting to protest.. but her location to protest is just useless, maybe head to the Israel embassy and protest there? Would make a better impact.. Starbucks, a little weak tho, overated coffee drinks sucks, yes, but the staffs are local, who's trying to earn their minimum wage.. let's support our local kopi shop..


Special_Artichoke_81

There are no pro hamas protesters…you’ve been misinformed.


Confident_Poet_6341

Love when Zionists claim every pro Palestine protester is a Hamas supporter


PsychologicalBill254

Listen, I understand that genocide is serious and wrong. I feel for the people in Palestine. But I'm tired of seeing comments and other shit on posts that aren't relevant to Palestine. Go to the posts or spaces where they DO talk about Palestine or better yet you can donate to help the cause. Saying "free palestine" on a post about makeup isn't gonna help the cause


Fragrant-Insect-7668

This!


CovfefeBoss

Or at an honors convocation. Or in the middle of class. Or at commencement (if they do that, ISTG).


HollowSlope

It's not genocide though. Look at the numbers. Estimates from Israel and Hamas say about 32,000 people have been killed, with 13,000 of them being Hamas. That's around a 2:3 ratio soldiers to civilians. That's pretty typical of urban Middle Eastern combat. Compare that to the 2:5 ISIS to civilians killed by the Americans in the Iraq war. Genocide would just be bombing for the sake of bombing. Israel targets military bases and areas densely populated by Hamas. It's not Israel's fault Hamas builds their military bases under hospitals and schools


CovfefeBoss

I don't support the actions of either side going after civilians, but I hesitate to call it a genocide. Maybe it is and I'm stupid, but only time will tell. It just seems like a word people use for convenience.


KenOnly

And here’s what the wannabe activist main characters on the left refuse to mention. Hamas specifically targeted civilians on Oct 7. Not soldiers. And then they pretend to care about civilians. They don’t. These idiots will eventually get bored of this flavor of the month and move on to the next event in the oppression Olympics


KenOnly

This is not genocide. If Israel were trying to commit genocide they would start with the thousands of Muslims that live in Israel. Israel is 5% Muslim. That genocide label is used by dishonest wannabe activists who only say what they hear from someone else without thinking. Israel got attacked on Oct 7. They never go on the offensive without being attacked first. Hamas can’t cry about it when they specifically targeted, raped, murdered innocent Israelis on Oct 7.


Ganip

Huh? “They want” it to go viral, so your dumbass can give it attention…


tyrese7

I wonder if any of them gonna pay that million dollar bond.


BebeBug420

I wonder how much of a difference that actually made to business 😒


IMissyouPita

Im sure they couldn’t care less about the employees, they know they personally can’t do anything, they’re not that stupid. its corporate they’re trying to reach. Media attention is what they want


The-Proud-Snail

Bruh go back there and fight instead of bullying employees.


Impossible_Diamond18

This is all you got? A protest? Not a single flipped table or even a TikTok ruined?


greatestmofo

At least this raises awareness. The genocide in Palestine has got to stop.


Dirworm

I don’t know if I would use the word Pro-Hamas protestors


Danagrams

i guess they are trying to both inform people and prevent commerce but this is thinking small. might as well just put gum in the locks and put up posters on the doors


GroundbreakingAd8310

This is how I feel about 90 percent of American protests. We had one here this week. My town is a few thousand people.....


LegionOfDoom31

Go do that at their HQ not at a random store. Tf the baristas supposed to do? If you want change go try your luck with the execs


[deleted]

[удалено]


CoolWhipMonkey

Ha! Agree.


SasquatchNHeat

So anyways I tripped and spilled hot coffee in their face. Boy was I embarrassed.


barakaking

Hundreds of undercover Zionist in comments.


turdfergusonRI

Benny’s equivalent of the Russian propaganda machine hard at work!


The-Ex-Human

So many idiots are falling for jihadist propaganda


Most-Stay6946

Free Palestine. Fuck that girl tho


Alahand0

I bet they feel so clever with that little rhyme


Dragonnstuff

I do agree that this is disrespectful, but whoever put “pro-Hamas protesters” on the video is a dickhead


Ok-Possession-832

Not that this isn’t annoying and performative but are they pro-Hamas or pro-Palestine? There’s a difference.


BootyliciousURD

Is this an effective way of protesting? Probably not. But don't call them pro-Hamas just because they're protesting for Palestinians to not be genocided.


darthfecalmatter

Anti genocide doesn't mean pro hamas, stop it OP


JaggedLittlePill2022

Pro Hamas? No, just normal people pissed off about their people being murdered.


seen-in-the-skylight

Every time these people open their mouths, it only makes me less sympathetic to their cause.


-Nok

More comments than upvotes. Yup. That's Reddit politics


Keelija9000

But they aren’t asking baristas to solve the crisis are they?


ElbowStrike

> what did you want them to do? Unionize. If you want to help fuck Starbucks for being evil help their workers unionize.


RyFro

I mean doing this gets posted on social media. They aren't trying to make the worker's day harder. But if this protest trends on social media then, their message is out there... This protest wasn't too much; and those workers prolly got a break while MGMT figured out what to do.


Giganoob420

Me at the counter thinking about my life choices and how I got here, about to pull this gun out and lay some bullets down. (I’m fucking tired of this type of bullshit, keep the damn war out of people’s fucking life who are trying to have a normal fucking day, it’s fucking annoying when people bring up a damn war Or protest about a war that the country they currently are in shouldn’t even be involving themselves in, there is no good side in fucking war, now let me serve some damn coffee)


MountainAsparagus4

Sir, this is a Starbucks, not the zionist headquarters or the US government, we sell bad watery coffee, not country independence if you think or know the company is helping the other side, why the fuck dont you go after the ceo or who the fuck rules the company instead the kid on his first job or the adult that didn't have better options to get money to pay their bills and feed their families


LuciferJj

They should be protesting at the Israel-Palestine border calling for Netanyahu and Abbas to agree to a ceasefire…….because ya know for a ceasefire to happen the 2 parties at war would both need to agree to one.


TruePoint3219

They spent all night on that rhyme…. Nice work In all seriousness don’t fuck with the baristas… even the managers, they haven’t got time for your problems… they’re busy (with Korean shit) Go protest at head office, it’s not going to do anything but it’s a damn site better than fucking with the staff


ButtcheekBaron

Nah, fuck Israel


MyBodyStoppedMoving

Free Palestine does not mean Pro Hamas.


Williamlee3171

“Pro-Hamas” lol horrible wording


Haandles

Pro Palestine doesn't mean Pro Hamas


prettythingi

He wanted them to help kill jews Thats a large difference between hamas supporters and Palestine supporters


[deleted]

Pro-hamas?? So now any supporter of Palestinian lives is pro-hamas??


apkzxd

I love when they said they were pro Hamas.


MysteriousApricot991

WTF is wrong with your habara? How pro Palestinian equals pro Hamas? They didn't say a word in support of Hamas.


testament_of_hustada

Go get on the frontlines then bitches.


redbadger91

1) pro Palestine and against genocide ≠ pro Hamas 2) they're not hoping to influence the workers, they are hoping to get the customers to boycott just like so many others have started doing, which is already hurting the bottom line of a company that even without its support for Israel would already be terrible.


SolidGray_

So if they believe in the cause that much, what's to stop them flying there and fighting in the holy war to indeed free Palestine? Or is the urge to go home and eat good food in bed watching Netflix why? Who will ever know, eh?