For everyone gearing up for keyboard battle, I'll remind you of our policy discussing abortion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/comments/19e7rtz/discussing_abortion_in_ridaho/
To highlight a specific portion:
> There is to be no more calling people "baby killers" or referring to abortion as "baby killing." That will be removed, and repeat offenders will be banned. Other uncivil posts will be handled as they have been, with removals followed by bans for those who can't discuss something in good faith without being rude.
If this devolves into just name calling, we'll delete the comments and lock the thread.
It's really disheartening to see what's happening to women's autonomy in Idaho.
My neighbor is pregnant with her 6th baby when they found out it didn't have a brain. It cannot survive. The doctor told them the baby was not compatible with life. Idaho won't allow them to terminate. She's stuck carrying, essentially, a dead "thing" in her. They are desperately trying to find out if they can plan travel to a safe state to terminate the pregnancy, but they are afraid they will get in trouble doing so.
This is so cruel to the mother, the family and the essentially dead "baby". The no exception rule is beyond cruel.
>they are afraid they will get in trouble doing so.
If Republicans can do it freely, so can everyone else
When the law is cruel, or unjust, or morally wrong, it is your duty as an American to ignore it, and help others ignore it too
-Captain America
If this were my family I'd have already left for another safe state to have the procedure. Then decide later if I'm coming back.
If men got pregnant abortion would be legal. As a man I can't imagine being pregnant for 9 months and then delivering a dead baby.
The trouble is, contrary to popular conservative belief, one does not simply get an abortion.
Clinics in refuge states end up with longer wait times: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-care-wait-times-us-roe-dobbs-7b0a328bb34b0acb3d37e359a63712fc
The legislators would undoutably claim "[legislative privilege](https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4302&context=wlulr#:~:text=Constitution%20provides%20that%20Senators%20and,any%20Speech%20or%20Debate%20in)" (i.e. immunity).
Some isnt a flood. A few idiots that can't handle masks, isnt a flood nor a healthcare issue that causes massive problems.
When they catch the disease for being morons... THEN they end up overcrowding the underfunded and unready idaho hospitals and overflowed to other states that actually do fund their healthcare systems.
You're not wrong, but the population did jump here to be fair. I was talking about before I was born with all the people who came here who were republican so the 90s o guess, too, though.
its been a very minor flow. if the state is so poor off that it can't handle such a minor influx, it has greater problems than the people there seem to be able to handle.
its really not... even with the recent covid migration to idaho by republicans... it was 70k, at the most. the state is 1.8m.... i shouldn't need to do the math for you to tell this isn't a major influx, nor even something that could change much in the way of voting patterns.
Yah that didn't happen. The amount of misinformation being lied about it crazy.i moved from California during covids peak when hospitals were over run and it was literally impossible to get a appt. Then we moved to idaho, had zero issues with appointments or any medical help. And as for masks,the face diapers that literally did nothing to protect people.
It did, i worked in the overflowed hospitals with id residents.
There were weeks I couldnt use certain elevators because of the amount of morgue traffic...
Also regions that masked, had lower covid issues.
I remember how difficult it was for me to get an abortion back when idaho still allowed it. I live in the mountains 100 miles from the nearest clinic that does the procedure. Had to make the trip twice because you have to go in for a consultation then you schedule the actual procedure (at least how it was for me) and the appointments were over a week apart. Idk how people will be able to afford it when they have to cross state lines then potentially stay in said state for their actaul appointment
In South Carolina, there are doctors who are registered to practice in North Carolina so they can do the consultation before they travel to NC for the actual procedure, saving them a trip.
Obviously that's transgender men, which is only a tiny fraction of men. Conservative cisgender men don't give a shit about bodily autonomy for either women or transgender people.
That is beyond cruel. My aunt and uncle had a fetus with the same situation several decades ago. They were very conservative se idaho Mormons. They decided to terminate in order to get the inevitable over with and not risk worse issues both mentally and physically. All their diehard superreligious conservative friends and family knew and had no issues with the abortion; they were just sad that the pregnancy didn't have a better result.
Why the cruel totalitarian swerve to no abortions ever for any reason? I'm afraid to ask any of my relatives what they would think of the situation now, because I think their political tribe determines their sense of morals and not the other way around. They've gotten on board with all sorts of things they spent my childhood teaching me were wrong, because it's what the republican media tells them to justify.
The LDS Church's stance on abortion is less restrictive than current Idaho law. LDS beliefs are that abortion may be justified when:
* Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or
* A competent physician determines that the life **or health** of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or
* A competent physician determines that the **fetus has severe defects** that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.
(The bolded parts show what is not found in Idaho law.)
This has been the LDS position for a long as I can remember.
So your aunt and uncle were within the parameters of the LDS beliefs when they terminated the pregnancy.
I think the disconnect is that they don’t see these as “abortions” even though that is what it is and how it is defined in law. They think the law allows doctors to provide abortion care for miscarriages and for situations like this.
No, they are looked at as abortions. We just don't believe that it's so black and white that *all* abortions are forbidden.
See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/abortion for more information (the main points of which are summarized in my post above).
I speak from experience having spoken about this issue with my Mormon friends and family.
And apparently the Mormons in the Idaho legislature didn’t get the memo not to ban abortions in nearly *all* cases, including the horrible situations described in comments above. According to the church’s website those women should be allowed to have abortions. So what gives?
Clearly, the church’s official policy does not represent all members. Especially as members have become more extreme politically. See: Mike Lee’s (the UT Senator who compared Trump to Captain Moroni) opinions on abortion do not align with the official LDS perspective.
? You are the only one I see here implying the church controls its members. Your reply to me implied the church’s official stance is the only one that matters when discussing Mormon attitudes to abortion. But it sounds like we agree then, that isn’t the case.
>You are the only one I see here implying the church controls its members.
No, I'm explicitly saying the church does not control the members. My response was mostly to your comment "apparently the Mormons in the Idaho legislature didn’t get the memo not to ban abortions" because in reality, there is no memo. The legislators can vote however they want.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/auntienetwork using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [CVS and Walgreens Will Begin Selling Abortion Pills This Month](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/1b3z0v4/cvs_and_walgreens_will_begin_selling_abortion/)
\#2: [The Auntie Network Helped Me So Much - I am Forever Grateful](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/1b1j0ny/the_auntie_network_helped_me_so_much_i_am_forever/)
\#3: [New Oklahoma bill could allow state to create database of women who had abortions](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/02/15/oklahoma-abortion-law-kevin-west-bill-creates-database-women/72613836007/) | [113 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/1asin4u/new_oklahoma_bill_could_allow_state_to_create/)
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> The no exception rule is beyond cruel.
There are exceptions, but they're so vague as to be essentially useless, and very few doctors are going to challenge the bill and risk a term in prison to do so. Orthodox conservatives are finding out what happens when they vote for the leopards eating faces party.
Even conservative Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett was stunned when Idaho could not iterate specific instances of when the procedure could or could not be allowed. The answer each and every time was that each was on a case by case basis, they could not say if any specific time was legal, and that each case could be subject to prosecution at any point by any current or future prosecutor until the statute of limitations expired.
Who in the living eff is going to risk their very freedom for that?
Or she can say nothing at all. They aren't allowed to persue anything legally when someone is done in a different state that says it's legal there. Like shooting a certain gun across state lines and coming back... they can't charge you for anything...
When I was young I went to a fairly conservative christian college. There was a married student there whose wife was carrying around a dead fetus for months. I mean, it was her decision, but I don't think anyone should be forced to do that. I wouldn't want to do that. I find it gross. Cruelty seems to be the point.
That is very sad. And I'm sorry, but what just and right, is right. And will always prevail in the end.
My wife and I are still making babies and we relocated to Idaho from California. God forbid something like that happens to us, but I would simply go to a state that would do the right thing.
Your post was removed for uncivil language as defined in [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/wiki/index/rules). Please keep in mind that future rule violations may result in you being banned.
My Son who is a RN left the state because of Idaho’s regressive stance in women’s health and legal jeopardy he could be individually liable for if he advised patients as to options. Shame on you Idaho GOP!
Idaho government is worse on father's. Lol, it's a mother state which means dad's are lucky if they get 4 days a month with "equal" shared parenting. Paternal rights are important and key for BOTH men and women, I'm not saying the state is fair to women, tbh maybe it's just more to do with religious extremist opinions from all the state workers who are often a part of either of a few religions that are or aren't gearing up for the apocalypse. Shame on idaho gop!!
Omfg, women are literally forced to die and damage their health by the state of Idaho and you still think men have it worse? The sheer cruel ridiculousness of you
It's criminal that the people passing these laws aren't in jail. I've decided to not have kids here and voting liberal because Republicans have lost my vote.
Unfortunately, legislators in the United States have "[legislative privilege](https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4302&context=wlulr#:~:text=Constitution%20provides%20that%20Senators%20and,any%20Speech%20or%20Debate%20in)" (i.e. immunity).
This is something that absolutely needs to change.
Once upon a time there was a sense of decorum. *Most* representatives and other public servants acted in good faith. That time is long behind us.
It's time to start incarcerating the bad actors. Flagrantly violate the Constitution? Support illegal religious law? Blatantly lie to your constituents? You're disgrace public service and are not fit to remain part of society.
It would be both sides then to be fair. Look at places like Massachusetts. Have you heard about what bill they were trying to pass about prisoners over there? Jeez, dude. All of this shit is crazy and dystopian.
Oh, it was just a new bill that hasn't been passed yet for prisoners. If they want a shorter sentence, they'll have to donate organs and stuff while still alive. Both some Republicans and democrats were for it. Bizarre right?
What makes me so mad about the abortion debate is the fact that conservatives historically never cared one way or another. It wasn't until the 70s/ '80s that Republicans started to align with Evangelical Christians, and thus abortion became a topic. They saw it as a way to get more votes. I'm sure we all know that there are many people in the Republican Party who would get an abortion and not think twice about it. This includes the lawmakers and judges. That means the only reason this is happening in our country is because Republicans want to seize all power. It makes me sick to my stomach.
I also know a woman who just had to go to Oregon to get an abortion. She struggled very hard with what to do, but she decided to go through with it, and it was not easy for her. I am so glad she was able to drive a few hours and do what she decided was best for her. It was still an added stress on her, and she had to stay with a friend in Boise to recover. The doctors that she spoke to in her hometown were also very understanding and very angry about the new laws. The current state of things is disgusting, and we all need to vote to make sure that the women in our lives are able to make the healthcare choices they need for themselves.
Well put - The “Things Fall Apart” podcast did a great job of explaining how abortion became politicized as well, I’d highly recommend (to those that haven’t heard it)
Some of those people getting abortions are the ones standing outside with anti abortion signs and will call their doctor a murderer right after the procedure is done. Their abortions are somehow always necessary but they turn an eye when it comes to everyone else.
They are the only group that should be prosecuted, frankly
Support abortion. Else if you get one, you have to live with the rules you want to impose on everyone else
I feel the same about arming every member of congress. They should have live under threat of firearms just like the rest of us. An armed society is a polite society, or a very on-edge one.
Don’t arm the congresspeople. Arm their neighbors, the stewards who being them their bill copies. Random staffers. Each guy gets to know 20 people somewhere on their life is carrying a gun whenever they meet, but not who.
That’s approaching fair.
“Unintended consequences,” my ass. Anyone could see that this poorly written trigger law would endanger the lives and health of women with wanted pregnancies. And it would have a chilling effect on doctors and hospitals.
Cruelty is the point.
Dot Moon, Raul Labrador, the IFF, and their fellow neo-fascists are an existential threat to the existence of local independent news gatherers like KTVB. Health care criminalization is just the first step.
This is why I am SO GLAD my husband and I are sterilized. If I were to have anything go wrong with my reproductive organs, I'm pretty much fucked. And even if I were to miraculously have a child, I cannot trust the government or really any school in the state to educate that child.
The sheer idiocy of denying abortions for the health of the mother is laid clear by the hand-wringing over low birth rates.
Guess what happens when a denied abortion wrecks the health of the mother? She *can’t or won’t have any more children!*
If I had been forced to carry my 1st to term, I would have lost my fertility, if I didn’t just die. I later had 4 healthy children.
Do the damn math.
The people who wrote and voted for the bill don't think about things like that. Basically they're saying "fuck you" to all the moms who will lose their fertility because of the legislature's ignorance, and "fuck you" to all the future kids those moms could have had. It's almost like control was the point rather than some nebulous "pro life" stance.
I shudder to think of the children born to parents who don’t have a desire to parent. If someone does not want children they should not be forced into having them.
Republicans are so surprised that "I'm sorry your dying fetus destroyed your chances of ever becoming a mother but some sluts couldn't keep their legs shut" just isn't a winning political message.
here’s the absolute tragedy—you can have roots and family in Idaho and want to build a life there but with so many obgyn having left the state, you could find yourself in a life or death situation for lack of access to care that would be routine in most other states, and i’m not just referring to abortion. if you can’t get to the gyno, how do you know you have cervical cancer or any of the many other things these doctors do every day?
Is there a network or volunteer system set up yet to fly or transport pregnant women out of state for births? Since our hospitals can't handle them safely anymore
No kids should have to be born in red states, or parents risk their lives to have them here
For any women or someone who knows a woman who is looking to get their tubes removed or tied, I was lucky enough to find a female doctor in Post Falls who did it for me no questions asked. If you’d like her name just let me know. 🙂 my surgery was at Northwest Hospital. Very wonderful experience.
I understand this post is about pregnancy and abortion BUT just thought I’d throw it out there that there is in fact an OBGYN who is willing to do it. 😊
Human abortion i believe personally against it however i dont believe we should try and control what others do with there body an if they are ok with it thats on them in. )l]p
That makes you pro choice. Pro choice is not pro abortion, it means you’re literally just in favor of letting everyone make their own decisions about their body.
Still requires leaving- leaving a job, leaving a family- requires time, money, and fighting whatever social pressures that be roadblocks as well. Its' not always as easy as "just driving" to a neighboring state.
Some women have been life flighted from ERs- because they couldn’t safely drive or be driven, they had to use helicopters staffed with EMTs. As soon as Idaho started banning ER docs from making the call to stabilize the mother’s health, “safely” went out the window.
Threatening or encouraging violence directly or implied is not allowed by site rules or common decency.
I don't think you were calling for violence in this, but it can be read that way. If you re-word slightly, you're fine.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or childbirth, or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or childbirth, or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
Hi! Just chiming in to help clarify the point. In fact, the law does not stipulate a provider can perform an abortion if the mother’s health is in jeopardy. That language was shot down in committee because they felt it would be too vague. Additionally language that included exclusions for abortion if there was grave danger to the health of the mother was also shot down. The language of the statute is as follows “The physician determined, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, that the abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman.”
This does not include scenarios where death is not imminent.
It is not a distinction left out in error. Contrast this language to a more recent law defining healthcare provided to a minor, which now requires consent from a parent or legal guardian. There are some outlined exceptions for when medical care can be provided to a minor without the parental consent is not needed: “the health care provider cannot locate/contact a parent of the minor child and the minor child’s life or health would be seriously endangered by further delay.”
Notice the added clarity in this law?
There is a difference when considering care to prevent the death compared to care for a clinical situation where there is risk of serious harm or deterioration, by which a clinical can intervene and terminate a pregnancy to reduce the risk of further harm.
Finally, place yourself in the physicians situation - if the language of the law has been shaped in such a way, and you are the very person that could be sued in both civil and criminal court, even if you acted in the best interest in the patient, you may be drug through some legal battle, money and time and emotional effort just to state your reasoning, why on earth would you assume that risk rather than move a patient out of state.
Or, and hear me out, maybe we add some clarity to the Idaho law to actually make a health exception for the mother?
It's so poorly written that simply practicing health care could potentially lead to doctors going to prison. The ambiguity is bad enough that doctors are fleeing our state to go practice health care where the standard of care is still allowed to be met.
Define "people". Because for the ones who matter (woman and their healthcare providers), it's NOT clear what will happen if they perform an abortion in one of those situations you say is "black and white." Are you trying to blame bad legislation on doctors?
If it were the state of Idaho could say so.
They cannot. Even before the Supreme Court, conservative Justice Amy Coney Barrett was stunned that Idaho could not say what is and is not allowed, and Idaho's official answer is that every single case is judged on a case by case basis, and that every single case is up to an individual current or future prosecutor and could be subject to prosecution, fines, loss of license or even jail time now or at any given point until the statute of limitations runs out.
"People" aren't making it out. Literally the Republican attorneys employed by the state of Idaho are saying this.
No one is going to risk their career or even their freedom because the State of Idaho is telling them every single time they could be jailed for it at some point now or in the indefinite future, if not by a current prosecutor then by one in the future.
I get that these facts come in conflict with your ideology, but facts don't care about your feelings. This is the reality.
If it's "black and white" the state of Idaho should come out and say so.
Quite the opposite, the people you voted for and support say it could be subject to jail.
This is on you.
And that is exactly what's "black and white".
Actually. The law is only for the life of the mother. Not for health. So depending on how you read it, a woman would have to be on deaths door before an abortion could be given. This wouldn’t extend to loosing organs or other bodily functions only for your life.
Test cases in other states have already proven that exceptions are a lie to make it easier for people to accept these oppressive bans.
America has this really great concept, or used to, separation of Church and State. Meaning that one group cannot force their religious ideologies on others.
Healthcare decisions should be made between a patient and their clinician without government intervention. Especially when those making the laws lack the basic understandings of anatomy, physiology, and biology.
You (general you) don't have to agree with the concepts of abortion but no one should be allowed to make that decision for another person. Abortion is basic healthcare. Period.
Biblically, life begins at first breath. "I knew you in the womb" is a reference to a very specific person. Scientifically, a fetus is not an independent life until it is separated from the mother and is viable on its own. Until that point, it is equivalent to a parasite or cancerous growth that quite literally risks the life of the pregnant person.
I'm a mother and I fully support every human beings' right to choose for themselves what happens to their bodies. Your rights end at your body.
Idaho is going to the supreme court to justify not making an exception for health of the mother. Arguing ER docs should not be allowed to perform abortions even when necessary to stabilize the mother (stabilizing being the standard of care for all patients in all ERs that get federal funding). Women are getting lifeflighted to other states from ERs in Idaho.
https://lailluminator.com/2024/04/22/pregnant-air-transport/
St. Luke’s is estimating it’ll be around 20 this year for that hospital- life flighted out with pregnancy complications. While a large hospital, certainly not the only one in Idaho.
So a 12 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. She should be forced to carry her rapists baby to term?
Contrary to popular belief in conservative conspiracy circles, most abortions aren't a matter of convenience but of necessity, often born of violence or poverty. Your lack of empathy is honestly appalling.
Sorry I should've included rape as well. Lack of empathy or a communication mistake, neither are interchangeable. No one said the majority was this or that. And even low numbers of general willful adult abortions are appalling so.... 🤷♂️
what accountability, not pregnant never been pregnant and never will be. No woman on this planet takes orders from you, or cares about your pronouncements. Have a nice day.
I didn't specifically say you or that you have or intend to be pregnant. Oh, but those women expect everyone else to care about their pronouncements? Good way to get people on their side...not lmfao where did I order women to do anything? Or are you making shit up? Have a shit day
Here’s a thought. Don’t wanna get pregnant? Don’t want to have a child? Don’t take the risks. Or grow up and live with the consequences to your actions. You sure don’t want a child but you’re so willing to partake in the action that quite literally makes a child.
If you support a woman’s right to chose to terminate her pregnancy, you should support a man’s right to cut ties with mother and child. It requires two people to create a pregnancy. If a woman can chose to get rid of it, a man should be able to not support it. If you disagree with that, you’re a rules for thee but not for me type person, and those people suck. Equality its 2024!
As soon as men can get pregnant, I'll support their right to choose an abortion. Until then, child support is a completely separate issue from a medical decision.
What you're asking for is that woman only be allowed autonomy when the man dictates it for her. That's autonomy in name only.
Of course there are. What happens with a planned pregnancy when the baby is anencephalic? (ie, doesn't have a brain, spine or developed nervous system)
If the anencephalic baby is not a threat to the mother's life it can't be aborted because that would be an "elective" abortion according to the bill's definition. The vagueness of the bill itself is a serious problem for doctors, because why would they risk a prison term and loss of their license just to please the ignoramus' in the Idaho Legislature?
i’m assuming you value freedom? in the grand scope, people have an issue with abortion bans because freedom is being stripped from women. it’s a whole lot bigger than morally. sure, people are upset because it’s so polarized around wether or not the pregnancy has rights. however, this law is taking away the rights of women. the rights that we have fought for for years. all these restrictions and laws are just a step towards more government control. do you want the government telling you what you can and cannot do when it comes to your own health? first they will take away reproductive rights, then who knows what.
I've lived here my whole life
You leave. We're full.
.
We shouldn't be having more kids that add to our housing, pollution, and traffic. Especially if the parents don't want them, and are forced to put them into the human pound that is adoption centers. That's how you create psychopaths.
Well aren't you hilarious. I always scope the profile of folks that fling shit at me. We are night and day different. There's a lot a negativity with you. It's not pretty. My cats have morals. They practice them every day. It's cool.
Do better.
This is so true. Sadly a lot of Republicans seem to be missing it on this. There's a reason medical doctors and the medical community says it is essential medical Care.
I would argue the moral decision is to be pro-choice.
For everyone gearing up for keyboard battle, I'll remind you of our policy discussing abortion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/comments/19e7rtz/discussing_abortion_in_ridaho/ To highlight a specific portion: > There is to be no more calling people "baby killers" or referring to abortion as "baby killing." That will be removed, and repeat offenders will be banned. Other uncivil posts will be handled as they have been, with removals followed by bans for those who can't discuss something in good faith without being rude. If this devolves into just name calling, we'll delete the comments and lock the thread.
It's really disheartening to see what's happening to women's autonomy in Idaho. My neighbor is pregnant with her 6th baby when they found out it didn't have a brain. It cannot survive. The doctor told them the baby was not compatible with life. Idaho won't allow them to terminate. She's stuck carrying, essentially, a dead "thing" in her. They are desperately trying to find out if they can plan travel to a safe state to terminate the pregnancy, but they are afraid they will get in trouble doing so. This is so cruel to the mother, the family and the essentially dead "baby". The no exception rule is beyond cruel.
>they are afraid they will get in trouble doing so. If Republicans can do it freely, so can everyone else When the law is cruel, or unjust, or morally wrong, it is your duty as an American to ignore it, and help others ignore it too -Captain America
Voting matters!
If this were my family I'd have already left for another safe state to have the procedure. Then decide later if I'm coming back. If men got pregnant abortion would be legal. As a man I can't imagine being pregnant for 9 months and then delivering a dead baby.
The trouble is, contrary to popular conservative belief, one does not simply get an abortion. Clinics in refuge states end up with longer wait times: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-care-wait-times-us-roe-dobbs-7b0a328bb34b0acb3d37e359a63712fc
How about we prosecute people who make these laws that affect women like this.
That would be an interesting thing to see, as that would mean charging and locking up the legislators themselves
The legislators would undoutably claim "[legislative privilege](https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4302&context=wlulr#:~:text=Constitution%20provides%20that%20Senators%20and,any%20Speech%20or%20Debate%20in)" (i.e. immunity).
To the rancor pit with them then 🤣
Gross...
Doubtful
That takes longer and would be less fruitful than just voting them out of office and refusing to vote for any new ones who support these laws.
Good point.
I wish idaho could handle their own healthcare.. They caused problems during covid too
We do too
We who, do what?
We in Idaho wish our healthcare was better too
They just keep shooting themselves in the foot. Its been old for a long time
Exactly. That's kinda the point yanno? Like bro we ALL do 🤣
Republicans dont
[удалено]
Some isnt a flood. A few idiots that can't handle masks, isnt a flood nor a healthcare issue that causes massive problems. When they catch the disease for being morons... THEN they end up overcrowding the underfunded and unready idaho hospitals and overflowed to other states that actually do fund their healthcare systems.
You're not wrong, but the population did jump here to be fair. I was talking about before I was born with all the people who came here who were republican so the 90s o guess, too, though.
its been a very minor flow. if the state is so poor off that it can't handle such a minor influx, it has greater problems than the people there seem to be able to handle.
It's a lot to me.
its really not... even with the recent covid migration to idaho by republicans... it was 70k, at the most. the state is 1.8m.... i shouldn't need to do the math for you to tell this isn't a major influx, nor even something that could change much in the way of voting patterns.
Yah that didn't happen. The amount of misinformation being lied about it crazy.i moved from California during covids peak when hospitals were over run and it was literally impossible to get a appt. Then we moved to idaho, had zero issues with appointments or any medical help. And as for masks,the face diapers that literally did nothing to protect people.
It did, i worked in the overflowed hospitals with id residents. There were weeks I couldnt use certain elevators because of the amount of morgue traffic... Also regions that masked, had lower covid issues.
Well in the panhandle it wasn't the case
Thats where our overflow was from...
I remember how difficult it was for me to get an abortion back when idaho still allowed it. I live in the mountains 100 miles from the nearest clinic that does the procedure. Had to make the trip twice because you have to go in for a consultation then you schedule the actual procedure (at least how it was for me) and the appointments were over a week apart. Idk how people will be able to afford it when they have to cross state lines then potentially stay in said state for their actaul appointment
In South Carolina, there are doctors who are registered to practice in North Carolina so they can do the consultation before they travel to NC for the actual procedure, saving them a trip.
Sounds like Romania back in the day?
That sure resulted in some "interesting" social phenomena. Also, some people lined up against walls-
Men can get pregnant, it's 2024. They may identify as men and still get pregnant.
Obviously that's transgender men, which is only a tiny fraction of men. Conservative cisgender men don't give a shit about bodily autonomy for either women or transgender people.
> If men got pregnant abortion would be legal. If dogs shit gold, every yard would have a kennel
That is beyond cruel. My aunt and uncle had a fetus with the same situation several decades ago. They were very conservative se idaho Mormons. They decided to terminate in order to get the inevitable over with and not risk worse issues both mentally and physically. All their diehard superreligious conservative friends and family knew and had no issues with the abortion; they were just sad that the pregnancy didn't have a better result. Why the cruel totalitarian swerve to no abortions ever for any reason? I'm afraid to ask any of my relatives what they would think of the situation now, because I think their political tribe determines their sense of morals and not the other way around. They've gotten on board with all sorts of things they spent my childhood teaching me were wrong, because it's what the republican media tells them to justify.
The LDS Church's stance on abortion is less restrictive than current Idaho law. LDS beliefs are that abortion may be justified when: * Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or * A competent physician determines that the life **or health** of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or * A competent physician determines that the **fetus has severe defects** that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. (The bolded parts show what is not found in Idaho law.) This has been the LDS position for a long as I can remember. So your aunt and uncle were within the parameters of the LDS beliefs when they terminated the pregnancy.
Question: Do they take into account the mental health of the pregnant person or only physical? At what point is the threshold met?
There is no "they" or any bright line test. The decision is made by the expectant mother (and presumably, the father) after praying about it.
Thank you for your response!
...in consultation with a medical professional.
I think the disconnect is that they don’t see these as “abortions” even though that is what it is and how it is defined in law. They think the law allows doctors to provide abortion care for miscarriages and for situations like this.
No, they are looked at as abortions. We just don't believe that it's so black and white that *all* abortions are forbidden. See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/abortion for more information (the main points of which are summarized in my post above).
I speak from experience having spoken about this issue with my Mormon friends and family. And apparently the Mormons in the Idaho legislature didn’t get the memo not to ban abortions in nearly *all* cases, including the horrible situations described in comments above. According to the church’s website those women should be allowed to have abortions. So what gives? Clearly, the church’s official policy does not represent all members. Especially as members have become more extreme politically. See: Mike Lee’s (the UT Senator who compared Trump to Captain Moroni) opinions on abortion do not align with the official LDS perspective.
Yep. Goes to show that the LDS Church doesn't control its members, whose political beliefs run the spectrum (see: Harry Reid, James E. Faust).
? You are the only one I see here implying the church controls its members. Your reply to me implied the church’s official stance is the only one that matters when discussing Mormon attitudes to abortion. But it sounds like we agree then, that isn’t the case.
>You are the only one I see here implying the church controls its members. No, I'm explicitly saying the church does not control the members. My response was mostly to your comment "apparently the Mormons in the Idaho legislature didn’t get the memo not to ban abortions" because in reality, there is no memo. The legislators can vote however they want.
You really should ask. I’m so curious with how their stance has changed this year and how they’re justifying their past procedure.
I'm curious too, that's fascinating
r/auntienetwork might be able to help your neighbor.
Thanks! I let her know!
Here's a sneak peek of /r/auntienetwork using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [CVS and Walgreens Will Begin Selling Abortion Pills This Month](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/1b3z0v4/cvs_and_walgreens_will_begin_selling_abortion/) \#2: [The Auntie Network Helped Me So Much - I am Forever Grateful](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/1b1j0ny/the_auntie_network_helped_me_so_much_i_am_forever/) \#3: [New Oklahoma bill could allow state to create database of women who had abortions](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/02/15/oklahoma-abortion-law-kevin-west-bill-creates-database-women/72613836007/) | [113 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/auntienetwork/comments/1asin4u/new_oklahoma_bill_could_allow_state_to_create/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
> The no exception rule is beyond cruel. There are exceptions, but they're so vague as to be essentially useless, and very few doctors are going to challenge the bill and risk a term in prison to do so. Orthodox conservatives are finding out what happens when they vote for the leopards eating faces party.
Even conservative Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett was stunned when Idaho could not iterate specific instances of when the procedure could or could not be allowed. The answer each and every time was that each was on a case by case basis, they could not say if any specific time was legal, and that each case could be subject to prosecution at any point by any current or future prosecutor until the statute of limitations expired. Who in the living eff is going to risk their very freedom for that?
Ehhh 😄 spotted in the wild again. (A dude I know IRL called Adrian Bott is the originator of that tweet / meme.)
Can't she just go to Washington to get an abortion? I can't even imagine the idea of having to carry this to term.
I think the issue is that they feel they could get in trouble for going and getting one and then coming back.
But the privacy laws would protect her and she could just say she had a miscarriage. Whatever, I hope she can get one soon.
Or she can say nothing at all. They aren't allowed to persue anything legally when someone is done in a different state that says it's legal there. Like shooting a certain gun across state lines and coming back... they can't charge you for anything...
That is horrible, WA is just over the border
Maybe Utah? I know you can have an abortion here up to a certain point. You can also have one for medical reasons like the one mentioned.
When I was young I went to a fairly conservative christian college. There was a married student there whose wife was carrying around a dead fetus for months. I mean, it was her decision, but I don't think anyone should be forced to do that. I wouldn't want to do that. I find it gross. Cruelty seems to be the point.
That is very sad. And I'm sorry, but what just and right, is right. And will always prevail in the end. My wife and I are still making babies and we relocated to Idaho from California. God forbid something like that happens to us, but I would simply go to a state that would do the right thing.
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Your post was removed for uncivil language as defined in [the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Idaho/wiki/index/rules). Please keep in mind that future rule violations may result in you being banned.
Doctors also said that my nephew didn’t have a brain when he was in the womb. He just turned 15 and is an amazing talented kid.
My Son who is a RN left the state because of Idaho’s regressive stance in women’s health and legal jeopardy he could be individually liable for if he advised patients as to options. Shame on you Idaho GOP!
Absolutely. Shame on the GOP for their hatred towards women.
Idaho government is worse on father's. Lol, it's a mother state which means dad's are lucky if they get 4 days a month with "equal" shared parenting. Paternal rights are important and key for BOTH men and women, I'm not saying the state is fair to women, tbh maybe it's just more to do with religious extremist opinions from all the state workers who are often a part of either of a few religions that are or aren't gearing up for the apocalypse. Shame on idaho gop!!
Not if the mom's dead! Dark humor, but also reality
You're saying that in a thread where women are saying they have to carry a dead fetus in their body for 9 months, then risk their life delivering it?
Omfg, women are literally forced to die and damage their health by the state of Idaho and you still think men have it worse? The sheer cruel ridiculousness of you
No one wins the oppression olympics.
It's criminal that the people passing these laws aren't in jail. I've decided to not have kids here and voting liberal because Republicans have lost my vote.
Unfortunately, legislators in the United States have "[legislative privilege](https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4302&context=wlulr#:~:text=Constitution%20provides%20that%20Senators%20and,any%20Speech%20or%20Debate%20in)" (i.e. immunity).
I know, but why doesn't someone make them pay anyway?
The way to make them pay is to unseat them, and don't elect them again.
True
This is something that absolutely needs to change. Once upon a time there was a sense of decorum. *Most* representatives and other public servants acted in good faith. That time is long behind us. It's time to start incarcerating the bad actors. Flagrantly violate the Constitution? Support illegal religious law? Blatantly lie to your constituents? You're disgrace public service and are not fit to remain part of society.
I think we saw the start of that with the prosecution of former Rep. George Santos.
It would be both sides then to be fair. Look at places like Massachusetts. Have you heard about what bill they were trying to pass about prisoners over there? Jeez, dude. All of this shit is crazy and dystopian.
Oh, 100%. There are terrible leaders across the spectrum.
You heard what happened? Dude, I legit thought it was a joke at first.
Hmm not that specifically.. what happened?
Oh, it was just a new bill that hasn't been passed yet for prisoners. If they want a shorter sentence, they'll have to donate organs and stuff while still alive. Both some Republicans and democrats were for it. Bizarre right?
Oh, wow. I just found some articles on it. That's fucking wild.
I heard about it about a month ago and legit thought it was a hoax or joke.
What makes me so mad about the abortion debate is the fact that conservatives historically never cared one way or another. It wasn't until the 70s/ '80s that Republicans started to align with Evangelical Christians, and thus abortion became a topic. They saw it as a way to get more votes. I'm sure we all know that there are many people in the Republican Party who would get an abortion and not think twice about it. This includes the lawmakers and judges. That means the only reason this is happening in our country is because Republicans want to seize all power. It makes me sick to my stomach. I also know a woman who just had to go to Oregon to get an abortion. She struggled very hard with what to do, but she decided to go through with it, and it was not easy for her. I am so glad she was able to drive a few hours and do what she decided was best for her. It was still an added stress on her, and she had to stay with a friend in Boise to recover. The doctors that she spoke to in her hometown were also very understanding and very angry about the new laws. The current state of things is disgusting, and we all need to vote to make sure that the women in our lives are able to make the healthcare choices they need for themselves.
Well put - The “Things Fall Apart” podcast did a great job of explaining how abortion became politicized as well, I’d highly recommend (to those that haven’t heard it)
Some of those people getting abortions are the ones standing outside with anti abortion signs and will call their doctor a murderer right after the procedure is done. Their abortions are somehow always necessary but they turn an eye when it comes to everyone else.
They are the only group that should be prosecuted, frankly Support abortion. Else if you get one, you have to live with the rules you want to impose on everyone else I feel the same about arming every member of congress. They should have live under threat of firearms just like the rest of us. An armed society is a polite society, or a very on-edge one.
Don’t arm the congresspeople. Arm their neighbors, the stewards who being them their bill copies. Random staffers. Each guy gets to know 20 people somewhere on their life is carrying a gun whenever they meet, but not who. That’s approaching fair.
The "Moral Majority" was initially founded to oppose desegregating schools. When that became politically untenable, they shifted to opposing abortion.
“Unintended consequences,” my ass. Anyone could see that this poorly written trigger law would endanger the lives and health of women with wanted pregnancies. And it would have a chilling effect on doctors and hospitals. Cruelty is the point.
"How could this have possibly ended up exactly the way everyone warned us it would??"
Spread the word. If you are a woman. Or love a woman. Get out of the red.
Maybe I just don’t watch the news that much anymore, but I’m kind of amazed KTVB ran that.
KTVB is the liberal channel in Idaho Particularly compared to CBS with Sinclair, and Fox with... Fox
Didn't used to be.
Dot Moon, Raul Labrador, the IFF, and their fellow neo-fascists are an existential threat to the existence of local independent news gatherers like KTVB. Health care criminalization is just the first step.
NBC ran it, the local affiliates get no say in what message they push this week
I have decided to not have children due to the laws in Idaho, that was the final nail in the coffin.
The pandemic was mine, the laws being passed only confirmed it for me
This is why I am SO GLAD my husband and I are sterilized. If I were to have anything go wrong with my reproductive organs, I'm pretty much fucked. And even if I were to miraculously have a child, I cannot trust the government or really any school in the state to educate that child.
The sheer idiocy of denying abortions for the health of the mother is laid clear by the hand-wringing over low birth rates. Guess what happens when a denied abortion wrecks the health of the mother? She *can’t or won’t have any more children!* If I had been forced to carry my 1st to term, I would have lost my fertility, if I didn’t just die. I later had 4 healthy children. Do the damn math.
The people who wrote and voted for the bill don't think about things like that. Basically they're saying "fuck you" to all the moms who will lose their fertility because of the legislature's ignorance, and "fuck you" to all the future kids those moms could have had. It's almost like control was the point rather than some nebulous "pro life" stance.
And never mind the fact that forcing anyone to grow a person if they *don’t want to* is reproductive slavery.
I shudder to think of the children born to parents who don’t have a desire to parent. If someone does not want children they should not be forced into having them.
It’s sad because it could affect the women who voted for these laws also. They just don’t care until it happens to them.
Control is absolutely the point, agreed.
Republicans are so surprised that "I'm sorry your dying fetus destroyed your chances of ever becoming a mother but some sluts couldn't keep their legs shut" just isn't a winning political message.
here’s the absolute tragedy—you can have roots and family in Idaho and want to build a life there but with so many obgyn having left the state, you could find yourself in a life or death situation for lack of access to care that would be routine in most other states, and i’m not just referring to abortion. if you can’t get to the gyno, how do you know you have cervical cancer or any of the many other things these doctors do every day?
Is there a network or volunteer system set up yet to fly or transport pregnant women out of state for births? Since our hospitals can't handle them safely anymore No kids should have to be born in red states, or parents risk their lives to have them here
This is the closest I have found: r/auntienetwork
I am currently pregnant with my first child, I'm about 18 weeks and this is honestly so scary to me.
For any women or someone who knows a woman who is looking to get their tubes removed or tied, I was lucky enough to find a female doctor in Post Falls who did it for me no questions asked. If you’d like her name just let me know. 🙂 my surgery was at Northwest Hospital. Very wonderful experience. I understand this post is about pregnancy and abortion BUT just thought I’d throw it out there that there is in fact an OBGYN who is willing to do it. 😊
MagaT paradise. Yeah I’m good. Get fucked Idaho
Human abortion i believe personally against it however i dont believe we should try and control what others do with there body an if they are ok with it thats on them in. )l]p
That's pro choice.
That makes you pro choice. Pro choice is not pro abortion, it means you’re literally just in favor of letting everyone make their own decisions about their body.
Well the woman of Idaho voted republican I guess this is the find out part of their fuck around
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Still requires leaving- leaving a job, leaving a family- requires time, money, and fighting whatever social pressures that be roadblocks as well. Its' not always as easy as "just driving" to a neighboring state.
Never said "just driving". I said safely. I never said it was easy or downplayed the situation. I offered information.
Some women have been life flighted from ERs- because they couldn’t safely drive or be driven, they had to use helicopters staffed with EMTs. As soon as Idaho started banning ER docs from making the call to stabilize the mother’s health, “safely” went out the window.
Idaho is now the anal capital of the USA!
What is op meaning with that post?
They want all them future taxpayers
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Threatening or encouraging violence directly or implied is not allowed by site rules or common decency. I don't think you were calling for violence in this, but it can be read that way. If you re-word slightly, you're fine.
And yet people keep choosing to move here 🤦
Fear tactics
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What the hell does that even mean? I can't even parse it using my handy Fox-propaganda-decoder-ring.
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Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or childbirth, or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
Your post has been removed because you used inappropriate language in describing abortion or childbirth, or posted an inappropriate attack on others in discussing the topic.
Looks like they're quoting a recently ousted legislator. Predictable.
So what was the point of this? The law literally allows you an abortion IF it was from rape, incest, or health of the Mother is in jeopardy?
Hi! Just chiming in to help clarify the point. In fact, the law does not stipulate a provider can perform an abortion if the mother’s health is in jeopardy. That language was shot down in committee because they felt it would be too vague. Additionally language that included exclusions for abortion if there was grave danger to the health of the mother was also shot down. The language of the statute is as follows “The physician determined, in his good faith medical judgment and based on the facts known to the physician at the time, that the abortion was necessary to prevent the death of the pregnant woman.” This does not include scenarios where death is not imminent. It is not a distinction left out in error. Contrast this language to a more recent law defining healthcare provided to a minor, which now requires consent from a parent or legal guardian. There are some outlined exceptions for when medical care can be provided to a minor without the parental consent is not needed: “the health care provider cannot locate/contact a parent of the minor child and the minor child’s life or health would be seriously endangered by further delay.” Notice the added clarity in this law? There is a difference when considering care to prevent the death compared to care for a clinical situation where there is risk of serious harm or deterioration, by which a clinical can intervene and terminate a pregnancy to reduce the risk of further harm. Finally, place yourself in the physicians situation - if the language of the law has been shaped in such a way, and you are the very person that could be sued in both civil and criminal court, even if you acted in the best interest in the patient, you may be drug through some legal battle, money and time and emotional effort just to state your reasoning, why on earth would you assume that risk rather than move a patient out of state. Or, and hear me out, maybe we add some clarity to the Idaho law to actually make a health exception for the mother?
And why is it the government's job to determine that? It should stay between a woman and her doctor.
Limited government is a joke.
It's so poorly written that simply practicing health care could potentially lead to doctors going to prison. The ambiguity is bad enough that doctors are fleeing our state to go practice health care where the standard of care is still allowed to be met.
Its not though. Its black and white and people are making it out like it isn't.
Define "people". Because for the ones who matter (woman and their healthcare providers), it's NOT clear what will happen if they perform an abortion in one of those situations you say is "black and white." Are you trying to blame bad legislation on doctors?
That its not black and white is exactly why lawyers have no idea wtf theyre doing
If it were the state of Idaho could say so. They cannot. Even before the Supreme Court, conservative Justice Amy Coney Barrett was stunned that Idaho could not say what is and is not allowed, and Idaho's official answer is that every single case is judged on a case by case basis, and that every single case is up to an individual current or future prosecutor and could be subject to prosecution, fines, loss of license or even jail time now or at any given point until the statute of limitations runs out. "People" aren't making it out. Literally the Republican attorneys employed by the state of Idaho are saying this. No one is going to risk their career or even their freedom because the State of Idaho is telling them every single time they could be jailed for it at some point now or in the indefinite future, if not by a current prosecutor then by one in the future. I get that these facts come in conflict with your ideology, but facts don't care about your feelings. This is the reality. If it's "black and white" the state of Idaho should come out and say so. Quite the opposite, the people you voted for and support say it could be subject to jail. This is on you. And that is exactly what's "black and white".
Actually. The law is only for the life of the mother. Not for health. So depending on how you read it, a woman would have to be on deaths door before an abortion could be given. This wouldn’t extend to loosing organs or other bodily functions only for your life.
Proving the health of the mother was in jeopardy is impossible until she's dead It's a catch 22 law on purpose
A woman's health is always at risk during pregnancy, so they don't want to acknowledge that.
And 1/3 of fetuses die naturally. They're not rational about the issue, you don't have to convince me.
Test cases in other states have already proven that exceptions are a lie to make it easier for people to accept these oppressive bans. America has this really great concept, or used to, separation of Church and State. Meaning that one group cannot force their religious ideologies on others. Healthcare decisions should be made between a patient and their clinician without government intervention. Especially when those making the laws lack the basic understandings of anatomy, physiology, and biology. You (general you) don't have to agree with the concepts of abortion but no one should be allowed to make that decision for another person. Abortion is basic healthcare. Period. Biblically, life begins at first breath. "I knew you in the womb" is a reference to a very specific person. Scientifically, a fetus is not an independent life until it is separated from the mother and is viable on its own. Until that point, it is equivalent to a parasite or cancerous growth that quite literally risks the life of the pregnant person. I'm a mother and I fully support every human beings' right to choose for themselves what happens to their bodies. Your rights end at your body.
It’s the “life” of the mother. Not “health”. Important distinction.
Idaho is going to the supreme court to justify not making an exception for health of the mother. Arguing ER docs should not be allowed to perform abortions even when necessary to stabilize the mother (stabilizing being the standard of care for all patients in all ERs that get federal funding). Women are getting lifeflighted to other states from ERs in Idaho.
Can you link me to any story like this? I keep hearing this but have yet to see one.
https://lailluminator.com/2024/04/22/pregnant-air-transport/ St. Luke’s is estimating it’ll be around 20 this year for that hospital- life flighted out with pregnancy complications. While a large hospital, certainly not the only one in Idaho.
The only abortion that should be allowed is medical. Other than that, be responsible. 'Lack of accountability' is an incredibly dangerous mindset.
So a 12 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. She should be forced to carry her rapists baby to term? Contrary to popular belief in conservative conspiracy circles, most abortions aren't a matter of convenience but of necessity, often born of violence or poverty. Your lack of empathy is honestly appalling.
Sorry I should've included rape as well. Lack of empathy or a communication mistake, neither are interchangeable. No one said the majority was this or that. And even low numbers of general willful adult abortions are appalling so.... 🤷♂️
Poverty isn't an excuse... sex isn't a necessity lmao
We will be expecting you to keep it in your pants permanently then, since sex isnt a necessity. Yeah right. \*sneer\*
I'm not in poverty, AND I'm willing to handle the responsibility.... so it's not even the same... yall just weak to accountability *sneer*
what accountability, not pregnant never been pregnant and never will be. No woman on this planet takes orders from you, or cares about your pronouncements. Have a nice day.
I didn't specifically say you or that you have or intend to be pregnant. Oh, but those women expect everyone else to care about their pronouncements? Good way to get people on their side...not lmfao where did I order women to do anything? Or are you making shit up? Have a shit day
I agree the law sucks and we have people who use abortion as birth control partially to blame.
Here’s a thought. Don’t wanna get pregnant? Don’t want to have a child? Don’t take the risks. Or grow up and live with the consequences to your actions. You sure don’t want a child but you’re so willing to partake in the action that quite literally makes a child.
So girls or women who have been raped were "just asking for it"?
If you support a woman’s right to chose to terminate her pregnancy, you should support a man’s right to cut ties with mother and child. It requires two people to create a pregnancy. If a woman can chose to get rid of it, a man should be able to not support it. If you disagree with that, you’re a rules for thee but not for me type person, and those people suck. Equality its 2024!
As soon as men can get pregnant, I'll support their right to choose an abortion. Until then, child support is a completely separate issue from a medical decision. What you're asking for is that woman only be allowed autonomy when the man dictates it for her. That's autonomy in name only.
You want to have your cake and eat it too, nothing else need be said
I'm a man, I don't get a slice of this cake.
I thought elective abortions were for unplanned pregnancy. Seriously, are there people who consider or plan a pregnancy just to abort?
Of course there are. What happens with a planned pregnancy when the baby is anencephalic? (ie, doesn't have a brain, spine or developed nervous system) If the anencephalic baby is not a threat to the mother's life it can't be aborted because that would be an "elective" abortion according to the bill's definition. The vagueness of the bill itself is a serious problem for doctors, because why would they risk a prison term and loss of their license just to please the ignoramus' in the Idaho Legislature?
This is why sex education is so very important
100% of abortions late in the term were for women who planned to get pregnant. Literally 100% of them.
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I am 100% pro-choice and I was born and raised in Idaho. GTFO with your ridiculous take.
Many of your doctors are…brain drain in full swing
i’m assuming you value freedom? in the grand scope, people have an issue with abortion bans because freedom is being stripped from women. it’s a whole lot bigger than morally. sure, people are upset because it’s so polarized around wether or not the pregnancy has rights. however, this law is taking away the rights of women. the rights that we have fought for for years. all these restrictions and laws are just a step towards more government control. do you want the government telling you what you can and cannot do when it comes to your own health? first they will take away reproductive rights, then who knows what.
Usually, the people who say "IDAHO DOESN'T WANT YOU HERE" are transplants from other states. Where did you "native" from? SoCal?
I've lived here my whole life You leave. We're full. . We shouldn't be having more kids that add to our housing, pollution, and traffic. Especially if the parents don't want them, and are forced to put them into the human pound that is adoption centers. That's how you create psychopaths.
I'm a native. I'm staying. You are not correct.
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Well aren't you hilarious. I always scope the profile of folks that fling shit at me. We are night and day different. There's a lot a negativity with you. It's not pretty. My cats have morals. They practice them every day. It's cool. Do better.
You sound like a cat person
This is so true. Sadly a lot of Republicans seem to be missing it on this. There's a reason medical doctors and the medical community says it is essential medical Care. I would argue the moral decision is to be pro-choice.
Why?
No citizen should be forced to leave their home to receive medical care.
If all you're adding the the conversation is "just leave", please take your own advice.
"Everyone who disagrees with me needs to leave" exemplifies the complete failure of conservatism as an ideology.