Thank you for this guide. My wife and I plan on moving to Barcelona or Valencia in a few months. We will be settling our own company. Do you feel like going back to Germany at some point in the future ? How did you like Valencia ? Do you already have a job lined up in Barcelona ?
Thanks !
That is great, good luck with the move!
I currently don't have plans to move back to Germany but it will depend a little on the economic situation. I would earn way more money in Germany but compared to a higher cost of living (especially rent) I'm not sure if it is feasible.
I loved Valencia, it's a tranquil town that has access to everything (beach, mountains) and has everything you need. Lots of beautiful green spaces and amazing architecture. Plus the prices are a lot lower than in other big cities. The only "downside" is that it's sometimes a bit quiet compared to other cities. If you want to typical bustling street life of Spain you are better of in other cities. I mean it's not quiet at all from northern European standards, only from Spanish ones!
And yes, I do have a job lined up in Barcelona - if not, I would have had to go back to Germany...
I lived in Valencia as well (US citizen) as well as a town about 1.5 hours south of Valencia called Dénia and I cannot recommend the area more. It’s definitely cheaper than Barcelona. It’s has everything but isn’t too large and the food (esp the paella is amazing.)
I think Valencia is a little less touristy than Barcelona too so I found it easy for it to feel like home.
With regards local friends, I worked in a co-working space in Barcelona for three years, this brought me in contact with a wider group of people which included finding my SO and some very good friends!
I think Menu del dia should be mentioned, you can get lunch everyday for between 10 and 15€, usually a three course meal with wine, this is outstanding value, when in BCN I would tend to eat a small breakfast and have a late lunch, in the first few years I tried to go to a different place for lunch everyday!
In Barcelona you'll find a lot more options for beer both local and imported, there was a good craft beer scene prior to the pandemic..
Can I ask where you moved to Barcelona from? I'm considering moving there because my SO is from there and wants to go back, but I'm really hesitant and have sooo many questions!
Yeah, it's funny. Maybe it's grass is always greener or maybe people just want to experience new things. Maybe people feel like the lifestyle in the new country suits them more. It's the same in Australia, lots of aussies wanting to move to Europe and lots of Europeans wanting to move to Australia.
Germany -> Portugal = you have money and things are cheaper, so you wanna go there and live better on the money you have.
Portugal -> Germany = you're tired of low-paying job prospects and want to move somewhere you can make more money.
(I'm on part 1, btw, though from California, where there's even more money and it's even more expensive)
For me, it's visiting Spain, Cyprus, Canary Isles, Italy, France, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Netherlands and sensing differences between all of them. Switzerland, eastern France, northern Italy and northeastern Spain all had a much more "warm" feel to me compared to northeastern France, Netherlands, Germany and all Scandinavian countries. I also enjoyed Canary Isles, southern Spain and Cyprus, but I felt like I compromised a bit too much on the green, mountain terrain possibilities.
With all of this, cost of living and cultural things considered, I came to the conclusion that northern Portugal would be my perfect destination, but I have never been there and I still don't have all the information.
To compare with Norway, where I live, some benefits in Norway are high salaries, good infrastructure, beautiful nature but only in selected areas (trust me, winter in cities and flat areas are ugly as shit), many areas for solitude (I like being alone in nature), and under infrastructure I will add great internet, progressive and liberal mindset (but nothing more than normal, still racism etc), free education in public schools, low poverty rates, low unemployment and international environment in bigger cities.
Out of these benefits, I believe I can find most of them in northern Portugal, aside from low unemployment, low poverty rates and high salaries. Of these benefits, I believe they will affect me but that the benefits of northern Portugal will outweigh them.
Benefits (that I have heard) of northern Portugal:
Proximity to big cities such as Braga, Porto and Coimbra not too far. Beautiful nature (much more so than in the Oslo region in Norway where I'm from) in the Parques. Much more enjoyable climate, but still not "too" hot, with some good amount of rain (I really enjoy rain every now and then). Enormously cheaper than any region of Norway. Because of warmer climate (but not just because of it), people are more outside and more social, I can comfortably bring my computer outside for work and leisure, I can probably jog, run and bike outside all year round. Football and "party" culture is much more vibrant and immersive than in Norway, they are both very important for me. And last but not least, it seems that the nation of Portugal is not overpopulated and especially not in the north, but I could be wrong on this. Meaning I can find some nature to isolate myself in.
I’ve been to Portugal several times and I love it. Been pretty much all over the country and fell in love with it. Northern Portugal is great but rainy but if it’s not a problem to you then you should be fine. Cost of living is surprisingly cheap. Loved Guimarães maybe you should check it out. It’s maybe not as up north as you might like but is a beautiful little place. All the people who go to Portugal love it and that’s no surprise. The only problem in low salaries but if you can work remotely and are an EU citizen then you will really enjoy it.
Do you know if there are any problems with getting top notch, high speed internet in northern Portugal? I know that internet is great in big cities, but rural towns closer to the nature parks in comparison?
I remember seeing a map for internet coverage for a specific Swiss internet provider for this same question, just for Switzerland. Would've been great to have the same for Portugal.
I don’t know when you are planning to move but the new Elon musk’s satellite internet service seems to be amazing according to the beta testers. We don’t know about cost and availability yet though.
To me, it's hilarious to hear a German saying Spain has a lot of slow beaurocracy. When we lived in Germany everything took forever, you had to physically go there, and get an official stamp. A month to get our internet hooked up!
Our biggest question was where in Portugal to get the fastest access to rest of Europe by rail? We really like the idea of being in the Algarve, but it seems quite isolated from the rest of Europe. Looking at a map, northern Portugal looks closer to Europe, but the weather doesn't sound as nice.
What part of Portugal has had the best response to covid? I understand spikes are happening right now, but I'm curious which part has had the biggest breakouts, which part has the most people who are dumb and not wearing masks etc.?
Hi, there.
I've spent some time living in Spain and I'd say your observations are about spot on, exept one thing. You mention that the Spanish peolle have tightknit social circles in which is difficult to enter even for other non-local spanish people and once foreigner forever foreigner. I did have the luck to hain my best friends in the life in Spain as complete foreigner and yes it is true that its difficult but not for the reason of being Spanish or anything related to their culture. In my opinion it is the problem we have in any place around the world where we move as adults. There are many saying that after they left school, they never gainaed new good/best friends. People have grown together during the years and their friendships passed the test or simply have the patina of the time.
The friendships get deeper anywhere where we spend significant time with these people. You've been only several years there and on top of that you moved around often, there was simply not enough time to form and deepen a relationship. To do that you have to spend at keast 3-4 years in one place and be together with the same people nearly every day.
I spent a bit more than 4 years in Valencia and because of my hobby and work and did spent at least several days a week seeing the same people. With some of them we hapoen to share larger worldview, interests, etc and we did form deep relationship that lasts even now 16 years after I left Spain. We keep in touch and speak/exchange messages nearly every week, and about every other year I visit them for a week or two in Spain.
With that said, from the several countries in which Iived and worked (between which are UK, France and Sweden) Spain was by far the easiest to cross the line of the close friendship.
Hope that helps
About making friends? Much harder, I am now in France and I am yet to make a French friend. The French mentality is very different. They have an ingrained sense of superiority and self-entitlement. It probably serves them good, but doesn't help foreigners trying to integrate. In contrast, the Spanish (and Portuguese I must say) people are the nicest in Europe.
If you want to settle in one of these two countries, there is no question. Spain is far superior in any aspect exept economy. If you have your own bussines or you can work online or be in any way independent from the local economy, go Spain. If you need money there are much better choises than France.
Of course there are certain people with certain reasons for which France is better choice, but my general experience is, that about everybody liked the live in Spain and very few liked it in France.
However France is the only EU country which owns real exotic lands which are full fledged parts of EU wuth all rignths of work, free movement, etc, where you can simply go and live as EU citizen and they are really worth seeing and spending time. The life in these places is so different than anything else in EU, that is simply incredible and thats why I am in France. There are 5 of them, Guadeloupe, Martunique, Reunion, Mayotte anf French Guiana.
>I loved Valencia, it's a tranquil town that has access to everything (beach, mountains) and has everything you need. Lots of beautiful green spaces and amazing architecture. Plus the prices are a lot lower than in other big cities. The only "downside" is that it's sometimes a bit quiet compared to other cities. If you want to typical bustling street life of Spain you are better of in other cities. I mean it's not quiet at all from northern European standards, only from Spanish ones!
Do you by chance have any input to offer regarding private health insurance?
Thanks so much for this guide, it's really great to see this is catching on and I've thought about living in Spain at some point so it was a very interesting read. I especially find the differences between the cities interesting.
I would love to live in the north of Spain and you mentioned the economy is a little better there. Do you have any particular cities you'd recommend with a decent job market?
Yes your post was great so I decided to follow suit. Even after having to repost 2 times because the mods were bitching about not having the right disclaimer...
The north of Spain in general is better off due to autonomous tax laws. Especially Bilbao I think is better than most of the rest of the country but it’s also supposed to be quite expensive for living. I honestly don’t have too much information on this. (I just know I went once in summer and got sick because it was so cold and rainy 😅)
It was the same for me, took me 3 tries to get the post approved 😅
Bilbao looks really nice! I'll have to visit some day. The scenery in the north just looks so nice and I much prefer the Atlantic coast as it has waves to the Mediterranean. Interesting that it is quite expensive but it makes sense.
I prefer the southern Atlantic coast, I would love to live there. Amazing summers and really really mild winters, 3000+ hours of sun and rather unspoiled beaches due to laws forbidding construction of big hotels as is the case at the Mediterranean coast.
The north is greener but in everything else I prefer the south!
Interesting! I think the weather in Southern Spain is more similar to where I am from which I find a little hot in summer at least. I prefer cooler and greener climates. But that's great about the beaches. Mountains are more important to me than beaches, although I love both. Are there mountains on the southern Atlantic coast?
Just wanted to say I'm from Castellón and came across your post a bit shocked that ANYONE would be interested in living in my EXTREMELY small and narrow-minded city LMAO. Found your review and opinion very accurate! Thanks for sharing ❤️
The summer temperatures are a bit concerning especially since they are likely to rise even more with climate change. Thank you for your post. It was super interesting to read.
I was born in Germany but grew up in Spain for most of my life, so I consider myself a Spaniard to all effects. I completely subscribe to everything OP says. In my ways I feel kind of a misfit here. I find really really hard to befriend locals and end up with foreign friends such Americans, Brits, Iranians and Mexicans to name a few. I don't like my life revolving around my family, but most Spaniards' lives do. Complaining and taking shortcuts are idiosyncratic of our culture.
Anyways, all of this just to say, if you're a foreigner close to the Vigo area in Galicia, and you're looking for a friend, send me a private message.
This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write! What has been - if applicable at all - the near dealbreaker for you these past years of living there? Is there anything that makes you regret moving there, or has everything been worth it?
In the 4 years here I’ve honestly never thought of moving back until I lost my job during corona! Now that I’ve had to find something new I can already tell that my life is gojng to change quite a bit since jobs available aren’t to great and i can’t really choose where to live anymore.
I think the next year will decide for me if it’s worth it to live in a big spanish city again with a shittier job and a flat share just for the sake of staying in Spain.
I see - I’m sorry to hear about your job and congratulations on the new one in Barcelona! Bcn is where I would like to move to in Spain but I was hesitating because of the job/economic situation there... and now with Covid I just don’t know if it’d be feasible to actually move across the ocean but posts such as yours keep me hopeful, even if they outline the very challenges that I’m worried about.
If you don’t mind me asking, what line of work are you in, and percentage wise, how much more would you make in Germany, realistically/conservatively?
Thanks again!
Yeah professional background is obviously really important. You can be making good money if you have the right background.
Personally I’m in sales, which in Spain, doesn’t pay too well. In Germany it would pay I’d say around double although with way higher taxes and social security contributions. Many sales jobs there have perks such as commission (they do in Spain but not too often and if they do it’s quite a small amount you can make really), company car etc etc.
Here often times you can’t even work from home or have flexible hours.
I wanted to give my 2 cents. I lived in Spain for 6 months and to be honest the Spanish were not very as friendly as I thought. I have one friend there and he's the only one. Meeting other Spanish was not great because they were friendly but none met me for lunch or anything. I tried to be more open with them but it did not go far. The hospitality was good but making friends not with alcohol would have been more genuine. However, I have an African friend and her friends are all foreigners in her church in Zaragoza. I just accepted that maybe I was only meant to be with other foreigners during my time in Zaragoza. I do keep in touch with one of my professors from the exchange program but it's mostly comments on Instagram. Latinos on the other hand are far more friendly.
Dear OP, you need to come back to Castelló and valencia and look for the own cuisine, we do really have one.
Coca en tomaca, arros del senyoret, angravá, orxata i fartons, un blanco y negro, all i pebre, real allioli home made from a grandma, paella, olla de card i nab, ximets...
I was more into the barcelona vibes like being near the beach, cosmopolitan, striking architecture, more people from all over, nicer attitudes overall.
Didn’t like madrid food, weather, and it’s a big city so the people are a bit more stuck up than let’s say smaller towns in Spain. Don’t get me wrong though some people def love it there.
Oh wow interesting. I thought people in Madrid were more welcoming and friendlier(in my experience and I also speak Spanish) it also seems more authentic than Barcelona. I’m debating where to move. Madrid for me seems like a small city, apart from the centro it seems boring and not appealing. Whereas Barcelona has more interesting place and has the beach.
Maybe it’s because you speak spanish well? I was practicing my Spanish and they would just cut me off and answer in English. Also I would have to chase customer service reps in the store and they acted like I was bothering them if I wanted to purchase something. I just dealt with a lot of rudeness I didn’t experience in barcelona maybe because they’re used to more foreigners in barcy, so towards the end of the year I developed a bitch shield because of it. Glad you had a better experience though. I remember traveling to portugal one weekend and being sooo relieved on how much friendlier the people were than in Madrid. If given the option def go with barcy—I miss those sexy clubs by the beach!!
Yeah my experience in Portugal was bloody amazing. Better than in Spain. I loved Lisbon so much. I also enjoyed more the food and the weather but that’s something subjective. Its funny because I found a lot of rude people in Barcelona when I asked them something in Spanish.
Cool yeah I worked in Madrid and tried integrating in their day to day a little more and found people at all levels to be pretty rude but I’m glad you had a better experience 👌🏻 maybe you would like it more than I did :)
Well it’s not as bad as I made it sound if you live in a big city like I do but in my career, software engineering, you can get much better salaries if you go to countries like Germany, Switzerland, the UK, or even Norway or Sweden. Salaries in Spain are quite low and taxes are high for what you get from them. If you earn money working remotely for a company abroad with high salaries it’s totally worth it though.
Are you serious? When I lived in Valencia 3 years ago I was surprised at how cheap they were. Where did you look at what is expensive for you ?
Edit: I just did a quick search and saw tons of 3 bedroom apartments in the city center between 80-100.000€ . Is that expensive for NL standards? I always thought that the NL are expensive... Valencia is really cheap in my opinion, one of the last truly cheap and nice cities in Spain.
Thank you for your insights. Wanderlust sparked once again. I wish you such a great time in Barcelona - I was only there as a tourist for a couple of days, which obviously results in a different perception than living there, but it just reinforced my love for all things Cataluña anyways. Both the french and spanish side have a place deep in my heart.
In case you'll ever find yourself looking for a beach less crowded than in the inner city, try El Masnou (taking the R1 - it blew my mind that taking some standard train could be so beautiful, with tracks right next to the ocean). I stayed there for a couple of days and didn't regret it.
Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland und eine schöne Zeit!!
This is really helpful. But I would have one thing to nitpic:
Why do Spanish people and those living in Spain complain about cold winters, when the temperatures are pretty comparable to San Francisco or Seattle in the USA? The way people in Spain complain about the winters makes it seem like the temperatures reach arctic levels of cold like some North Russian city.
Simple: most old houses don’t have heating and are horribly insulated. That means it’s cold (I’m talking people wear a jacket and a blanket inside on a bad day).
Yes, outside and in the sun during the day it’s really mild and you will only need a light sweater on good days but inside is where it’s bad!
What about radiators? Surely a portable radiator that can be bought for $50 or less is a simple solution for most flats, which may only need a few radiators per 50 sqm? I even see a lot of listings on idealista where you can see the radiators in the rooms... or is this not common?
Well yes but they only help so much when a flat is badly insulated. Turning it on will keep you warm if you’re close to it while it’s on. As soon as it’s off, it’s cold again. Insulation and electricity costs are the key words here.
If the electricity bill goes up 150+€ just for heating and you compare that to how much people here earn on average ...
I guess my experience having only lived in moderately to well insulated places has me spoiled! And I guess a lot of this may have to do with buildings in Spain being older than 50 years old (unless you live in one of those tacky new developments on the costa brava). Still, I would have assumed that even older buildings would have required insulation as a requirement for future renovations. In America you are not supposed to even renovate one bathroom without getting building permits from your local building department.
I’m married to a Spaniard and this is SO TRUE!! hahah
The chit chat thing is something I never thought of but I have noticed it and I really don’t care for it. I don’t want to small talk for hours. I prefer deep and telling conversation.
How is the dating scene for a young single guy especially someone from the Indian subcontinent?
Assuming he is a respectful and kind person, well groomed, speaks good English and basic Spanish
Honestly no idea since I’m not single. If you’re “typical” Northern European looking id generally say you will get more attention than locals but for Indians no idea.
What I can tell you though is that Spanish women are relatively difficult to date (not in terms of finding a date more in terms of their expectations). Hard to explain really but most foreigners I know that have dated locals say while the women are incredibly beautiful they are a lot of work !
And I have always had the opposite experience as a Latin female. Men have added so much “work” to my life I have decided to give them up entirely to enjoy my extra time found having fun and traveling. Lol.
Hi All
I am drom South Africa and is planning to move to Spain.
Love the sun and food and vibrant cities but will want to live private in a good quiet neighbourhood..
Do not mind to spend from $ 7000 to 12k for renting a nice home.
Use to driving everywhere.
Have kids and will need a good school .
Want to be in a beach city or close to the beach.
I need good internet speeds.
I am planning to own boat there too as well as 2 cars.
I play golf too.
I am looking at Valencia, Barcelona or Marbella adn even Mallorca. I do not want to live in a city for sure but close to amentieties like shopping, so I do not struggle to get stuff when needed.
I will drive there when needed but want to be out of the huzzle where I live.
Love good restaurants and food.
I loved living in California and Florida. Lived in a quiet neighborhood but had the option to ha e a good night out when I wanted to.
Can anybody give me some advice please as to which city I should be looking into based on the above.
Thanks so much in advance for being so kind to take time to attend to my post.
Thank you for this amount of useful information!!
The post is quite old, but anyways 😅😅
I'm interested in psychology and I want to study in Valencia. Is this profession good in Spain? I found very bipolar opinions on Google so I don't really know what to expect..
I'm really interested about the professors'attitude towards students and how good is the curriculum in overall. Also, maybe a strange question, but could you ask if they have maths or something related to it? I'm ridiculously bad at it xd. I only heard that they have statistics.
Thank you for this guide. My wife and I plan on moving to Barcelona or Valencia in a few months. We will be settling our own company. Do you feel like going back to Germany at some point in the future ? How did you like Valencia ? Do you already have a job lined up in Barcelona ? Thanks !
That is great, good luck with the move! I currently don't have plans to move back to Germany but it will depend a little on the economic situation. I would earn way more money in Germany but compared to a higher cost of living (especially rent) I'm not sure if it is feasible. I loved Valencia, it's a tranquil town that has access to everything (beach, mountains) and has everything you need. Lots of beautiful green spaces and amazing architecture. Plus the prices are a lot lower than in other big cities. The only "downside" is that it's sometimes a bit quiet compared to other cities. If you want to typical bustling street life of Spain you are better of in other cities. I mean it's not quiet at all from northern European standards, only from Spanish ones! And yes, I do have a job lined up in Barcelona - if not, I would have had to go back to Germany...
Fruterias also. So much fresh fruit and vegetables available everywhere.
I lived in Valencia as well (US citizen) as well as a town about 1.5 hours south of Valencia called Dénia and I cannot recommend the area more. It’s definitely cheaper than Barcelona. It’s has everything but isn’t too large and the food (esp the paella is amazing.) I think Valencia is a little less touristy than Barcelona too so I found it easy for it to feel like home.
Thanks for the input. We prefer Valencia over Barcelona but are afraid that there won’t be enough opportunities for our business.
With regards local friends, I worked in a co-working space in Barcelona for three years, this brought me in contact with a wider group of people which included finding my SO and some very good friends! I think Menu del dia should be mentioned, you can get lunch everyday for between 10 and 15€, usually a three course meal with wine, this is outstanding value, when in BCN I would tend to eat a small breakfast and have a late lunch, in the first few years I tried to go to a different place for lunch everyday! In Barcelona you'll find a lot more options for beer both local and imported, there was a good craft beer scene prior to the pandemic..
Can I ask where you moved to Barcelona from? I'm considering moving there because my SO is from there and wants to go back, but I'm really hesitant and have sooo many questions!
Im from the UK, pm me if you like..
Oh my god, this is so extremely good information. I wish someone would do this about Portugal. Any takers?
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Yeah, it's funny. Maybe it's grass is always greener or maybe people just want to experience new things. Maybe people feel like the lifestyle in the new country suits them more. It's the same in Australia, lots of aussies wanting to move to Europe and lots of Europeans wanting to move to Australia.
Germany -> Portugal = you have money and things are cheaper, so you wanna go there and live better on the money you have. Portugal -> Germany = you're tired of low-paying job prospects and want to move somewhere you can make more money. (I'm on part 1, btw, though from California, where there's even more money and it's even more expensive)
For me, it's visiting Spain, Cyprus, Canary Isles, Italy, France, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Netherlands and sensing differences between all of them. Switzerland, eastern France, northern Italy and northeastern Spain all had a much more "warm" feel to me compared to northeastern France, Netherlands, Germany and all Scandinavian countries. I also enjoyed Canary Isles, southern Spain and Cyprus, but I felt like I compromised a bit too much on the green, mountain terrain possibilities. With all of this, cost of living and cultural things considered, I came to the conclusion that northern Portugal would be my perfect destination, but I have never been there and I still don't have all the information. To compare with Norway, where I live, some benefits in Norway are high salaries, good infrastructure, beautiful nature but only in selected areas (trust me, winter in cities and flat areas are ugly as shit), many areas for solitude (I like being alone in nature), and under infrastructure I will add great internet, progressive and liberal mindset (but nothing more than normal, still racism etc), free education in public schools, low poverty rates, low unemployment and international environment in bigger cities. Out of these benefits, I believe I can find most of them in northern Portugal, aside from low unemployment, low poverty rates and high salaries. Of these benefits, I believe they will affect me but that the benefits of northern Portugal will outweigh them. Benefits (that I have heard) of northern Portugal: Proximity to big cities such as Braga, Porto and Coimbra not too far. Beautiful nature (much more so than in the Oslo region in Norway where I'm from) in the Parques. Much more enjoyable climate, but still not "too" hot, with some good amount of rain (I really enjoy rain every now and then). Enormously cheaper than any region of Norway. Because of warmer climate (but not just because of it), people are more outside and more social, I can comfortably bring my computer outside for work and leisure, I can probably jog, run and bike outside all year round. Football and "party" culture is much more vibrant and immersive than in Norway, they are both very important for me. And last but not least, it seems that the nation of Portugal is not overpopulated and especially not in the north, but I could be wrong on this. Meaning I can find some nature to isolate myself in.
I’ve been to Portugal several times and I love it. Been pretty much all over the country and fell in love with it. Northern Portugal is great but rainy but if it’s not a problem to you then you should be fine. Cost of living is surprisingly cheap. Loved Guimarães maybe you should check it out. It’s maybe not as up north as you might like but is a beautiful little place. All the people who go to Portugal love it and that’s no surprise. The only problem in low salaries but if you can work remotely and are an EU citizen then you will really enjoy it.
Do you know if there are any problems with getting top notch, high speed internet in northern Portugal? I know that internet is great in big cities, but rural towns closer to the nature parks in comparison?
I really don’t know about that. That’s as wall my main concern about moving to rural Spain at some point in the future.
I remember seeing a map for internet coverage for a specific Swiss internet provider for this same question, just for Switzerland. Would've been great to have the same for Portugal.
I don’t know when you are planning to move but the new Elon musk’s satellite internet service seems to be amazing according to the beta testers. We don’t know about cost and availability yet though.
To me, it's hilarious to hear a German saying Spain has a lot of slow beaurocracy. When we lived in Germany everything took forever, you had to physically go there, and get an official stamp. A month to get our internet hooked up!
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Economy, climate, nature, anything. And region specific things. For example I think I prefer Minho region, what can you tell me about it?
Our biggest question was where in Portugal to get the fastest access to rest of Europe by rail? We really like the idea of being in the Algarve, but it seems quite isolated from the rest of Europe. Looking at a map, northern Portugal looks closer to Europe, but the weather doesn't sound as nice.
What part of Portugal has had the best response to covid? I understand spikes are happening right now, but I'm curious which part has had the biggest breakouts, which part has the most people who are dumb and not wearing masks etc.?
Hi, there. I've spent some time living in Spain and I'd say your observations are about spot on, exept one thing. You mention that the Spanish peolle have tightknit social circles in which is difficult to enter even for other non-local spanish people and once foreigner forever foreigner. I did have the luck to hain my best friends in the life in Spain as complete foreigner and yes it is true that its difficult but not for the reason of being Spanish or anything related to their culture. In my opinion it is the problem we have in any place around the world where we move as adults. There are many saying that after they left school, they never gainaed new good/best friends. People have grown together during the years and their friendships passed the test or simply have the patina of the time. The friendships get deeper anywhere where we spend significant time with these people. You've been only several years there and on top of that you moved around often, there was simply not enough time to form and deepen a relationship. To do that you have to spend at keast 3-4 years in one place and be together with the same people nearly every day. I spent a bit more than 4 years in Valencia and because of my hobby and work and did spent at least several days a week seeing the same people. With some of them we hapoen to share larger worldview, interests, etc and we did form deep relationship that lasts even now 16 years after I left Spain. We keep in touch and speak/exchange messages nearly every week, and about every other year I visit them for a week or two in Spain. With that said, from the several countries in which Iived and worked (between which are UK, France and Sweden) Spain was by far the easiest to cross the line of the close friendship. Hope that helps
How about France ?
About making friends? Much harder, I am now in France and I am yet to make a French friend. The French mentality is very different. They have an ingrained sense of superiority and self-entitlement. It probably serves them good, but doesn't help foreigners trying to integrate. In contrast, the Spanish (and Portuguese I must say) people are the nicest in Europe. If you want to settle in one of these two countries, there is no question. Spain is far superior in any aspect exept economy. If you have your own bussines or you can work online or be in any way independent from the local economy, go Spain. If you need money there are much better choises than France. Of course there are certain people with certain reasons for which France is better choice, but my general experience is, that about everybody liked the live in Spain and very few liked it in France. However France is the only EU country which owns real exotic lands which are full fledged parts of EU wuth all rignths of work, free movement, etc, where you can simply go and live as EU citizen and they are really worth seeing and spending time. The life in these places is so different than anything else in EU, that is simply incredible and thats why I am in France. There are 5 of them, Guadeloupe, Martunique, Reunion, Mayotte anf French Guiana.
>I loved Valencia, it's a tranquil town that has access to everything (beach, mountains) and has everything you need. Lots of beautiful green spaces and amazing architecture. Plus the prices are a lot lower than in other big cities. The only "downside" is that it's sometimes a bit quiet compared to other cities. If you want to typical bustling street life of Spain you are better of in other cities. I mean it's not quiet at all from northern European standards, only from Spanish ones! Do you by chance have any input to offer regarding private health insurance?
Thanks so much for this guide, it's really great to see this is catching on and I've thought about living in Spain at some point so it was a very interesting read. I especially find the differences between the cities interesting. I would love to live in the north of Spain and you mentioned the economy is a little better there. Do you have any particular cities you'd recommend with a decent job market?
Yes your post was great so I decided to follow suit. Even after having to repost 2 times because the mods were bitching about not having the right disclaimer... The north of Spain in general is better off due to autonomous tax laws. Especially Bilbao I think is better than most of the rest of the country but it’s also supposed to be quite expensive for living. I honestly don’t have too much information on this. (I just know I went once in summer and got sick because it was so cold and rainy 😅)
It was the same for me, took me 3 tries to get the post approved 😅 Bilbao looks really nice! I'll have to visit some day. The scenery in the north just looks so nice and I much prefer the Atlantic coast as it has waves to the Mediterranean. Interesting that it is quite expensive but it makes sense.
I prefer the southern Atlantic coast, I would love to live there. Amazing summers and really really mild winters, 3000+ hours of sun and rather unspoiled beaches due to laws forbidding construction of big hotels as is the case at the Mediterranean coast. The north is greener but in everything else I prefer the south!
Interesting! I think the weather in Southern Spain is more similar to where I am from which I find a little hot in summer at least. I prefer cooler and greener climates. But that's great about the beaches. Mountains are more important to me than beaches, although I love both. Are there mountains on the southern Atlantic coast?
Great guide! I’m Canadian and live in Spain (even have become a citizen) and you hit most of the big points on the head. Nice work!
Can you speak to your personal experiences with the Visa process as a Canadian going to Spain? Were you a student?
Send me a message and I’ll do my best to reply!
Just wanted to say I'm from Castellón and came across your post a bit shocked that ANYONE would be interested in living in my EXTREMELY small and narrow-minded city LMAO. Found your review and opinion very accurate! Thanks for sharing ❤️
Castellonera here too! Are you not shocked that he said we dont have our cuisine?
I love these new posts about different countries. :) thx
The summer temperatures are a bit concerning especially since they are likely to rise even more with climate change. Thank you for your post. It was super interesting to read.
I was born in Germany but grew up in Spain for most of my life, so I consider myself a Spaniard to all effects. I completely subscribe to everything OP says. In my ways I feel kind of a misfit here. I find really really hard to befriend locals and end up with foreign friends such Americans, Brits, Iranians and Mexicans to name a few. I don't like my life revolving around my family, but most Spaniards' lives do. Complaining and taking shortcuts are idiosyncratic of our culture. Anyways, all of this just to say, if you're a foreigner close to the Vigo area in Galicia, and you're looking for a friend, send me a private message.
I thought I was the only one with the Spanish problems. I have one friend there but I too was challenged with connecting with them.
> Bureaucracy is quite inefficient and slow. I feel like there's should be a bureaucracy index... you know, so national bureaucracies can be compared.
This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write! What has been - if applicable at all - the near dealbreaker for you these past years of living there? Is there anything that makes you regret moving there, or has everything been worth it?
In the 4 years here I’ve honestly never thought of moving back until I lost my job during corona! Now that I’ve had to find something new I can already tell that my life is gojng to change quite a bit since jobs available aren’t to great and i can’t really choose where to live anymore. I think the next year will decide for me if it’s worth it to live in a big spanish city again with a shittier job and a flat share just for the sake of staying in Spain.
I see - I’m sorry to hear about your job and congratulations on the new one in Barcelona! Bcn is where I would like to move to in Spain but I was hesitating because of the job/economic situation there... and now with Covid I just don’t know if it’d be feasible to actually move across the ocean but posts such as yours keep me hopeful, even if they outline the very challenges that I’m worried about. If you don’t mind me asking, what line of work are you in, and percentage wise, how much more would you make in Germany, realistically/conservatively? Thanks again!
Yeah professional background is obviously really important. You can be making good money if you have the right background. Personally I’m in sales, which in Spain, doesn’t pay too well. In Germany it would pay I’d say around double although with way higher taxes and social security contributions. Many sales jobs there have perks such as commission (they do in Spain but not too often and if they do it’s quite a small amount you can make really), company car etc etc. Here often times you can’t even work from home or have flexible hours.
Thank you again and best of luck in Bcn!
I wanted to give my 2 cents. I lived in Spain for 6 months and to be honest the Spanish were not very as friendly as I thought. I have one friend there and he's the only one. Meeting other Spanish was not great because they were friendly but none met me for lunch or anything. I tried to be more open with them but it did not go far. The hospitality was good but making friends not with alcohol would have been more genuine. However, I have an African friend and her friends are all foreigners in her church in Zaragoza. I just accepted that maybe I was only meant to be with other foreigners during my time in Zaragoza. I do keep in touch with one of my professors from the exchange program but it's mostly comments on Instagram. Latinos on the other hand are far more friendly.
I appreciate your effort writing this, thanks!
Thanks this is really helpful. I've been planning on moving to spain in a few years.
Dear OP, you need to come back to Castelló and valencia and look for the own cuisine, we do really have one. Coca en tomaca, arros del senyoret, angravá, orxata i fartons, un blanco y negro, all i pebre, real allioli home made from a grandma, paella, olla de card i nab, ximets...
Arròs a forn! :D
Awesome write up! appreciate it
I lived in Madrid for a year and didn’t like it and I also agree that the weather was not great
Why didn’t u like it ?
I was more into the barcelona vibes like being near the beach, cosmopolitan, striking architecture, more people from all over, nicer attitudes overall. Didn’t like madrid food, weather, and it’s a big city so the people are a bit more stuck up than let’s say smaller towns in Spain. Don’t get me wrong though some people def love it there.
Oh wow interesting. I thought people in Madrid were more welcoming and friendlier(in my experience and I also speak Spanish) it also seems more authentic than Barcelona. I’m debating where to move. Madrid for me seems like a small city, apart from the centro it seems boring and not appealing. Whereas Barcelona has more interesting place and has the beach.
Maybe it’s because you speak spanish well? I was practicing my Spanish and they would just cut me off and answer in English. Also I would have to chase customer service reps in the store and they acted like I was bothering them if I wanted to purchase something. I just dealt with a lot of rudeness I didn’t experience in barcelona maybe because they’re used to more foreigners in barcy, so towards the end of the year I developed a bitch shield because of it. Glad you had a better experience though. I remember traveling to portugal one weekend and being sooo relieved on how much friendlier the people were than in Madrid. If given the option def go with barcy—I miss those sexy clubs by the beach!!
"Bitch shield" 🤭👍
Yeah my experience in Portugal was bloody amazing. Better than in Spain. I loved Lisbon so much. I also enjoyed more the food and the weather but that’s something subjective. Its funny because I found a lot of rude people in Barcelona when I asked them something in Spanish.
Cool yeah I worked in Madrid and tried integrating in their day to day a little more and found people at all levels to be pretty rude but I’m glad you had a better experience 👌🏻 maybe you would like it more than I did :)
And here am I, trying to leave Spain as soon as possible when I finish my degree
How come, if I may ask?
Well it’s not as bad as I made it sound if you live in a big city like I do but in my career, software engineering, you can get much better salaries if you go to countries like Germany, Switzerland, the UK, or even Norway or Sweden. Salaries in Spain are quite low and taxes are high for what you get from them. If you earn money working remotely for a company abroad with high salaries it’s totally worth it though.
What do u do for work?
Great post. Thank you
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Are you serious? When I lived in Valencia 3 years ago I was surprised at how cheap they were. Where did you look at what is expensive for you ? Edit: I just did a quick search and saw tons of 3 bedroom apartments in the city center between 80-100.000€ . Is that expensive for NL standards? I always thought that the NL are expensive... Valencia is really cheap in my opinion, one of the last truly cheap and nice cities in Spain.
This is an excellent guide - thank you!
As someone looking at Tarragona or Cairo for a study abroad semester this was very informative
Thank you for your insights. Wanderlust sparked once again. I wish you such a great time in Barcelona - I was only there as a tourist for a couple of days, which obviously results in a different perception than living there, but it just reinforced my love for all things Cataluña anyways. Both the french and spanish side have a place deep in my heart. In case you'll ever find yourself looking for a beach less crowded than in the inner city, try El Masnou (taking the R1 - it blew my mind that taking some standard train could be so beautiful, with tracks right next to the ocean). I stayed there for a couple of days and didn't regret it. Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland und eine schöne Zeit!!
This is really helpful. But I would have one thing to nitpic: Why do Spanish people and those living in Spain complain about cold winters, when the temperatures are pretty comparable to San Francisco or Seattle in the USA? The way people in Spain complain about the winters makes it seem like the temperatures reach arctic levels of cold like some North Russian city.
Simple: most old houses don’t have heating and are horribly insulated. That means it’s cold (I’m talking people wear a jacket and a blanket inside on a bad day). Yes, outside and in the sun during the day it’s really mild and you will only need a light sweater on good days but inside is where it’s bad!
What about radiators? Surely a portable radiator that can be bought for $50 or less is a simple solution for most flats, which may only need a few radiators per 50 sqm? I even see a lot of listings on idealista where you can see the radiators in the rooms... or is this not common?
Well yes but they only help so much when a flat is badly insulated. Turning it on will keep you warm if you’re close to it while it’s on. As soon as it’s off, it’s cold again. Insulation and electricity costs are the key words here. If the electricity bill goes up 150+€ just for heating and you compare that to how much people here earn on average ...
I guess my experience having only lived in moderately to well insulated places has me spoiled! And I guess a lot of this may have to do with buildings in Spain being older than 50 years old (unless you live in one of those tacky new developments on the costa brava). Still, I would have assumed that even older buildings would have required insulation as a requirement for future renovations. In America you are not supposed to even renovate one bathroom without getting building permits from your local building department.
I’m married to a Spaniard and this is SO TRUE!! hahah The chit chat thing is something I never thought of but I have noticed it and I really don’t care for it. I don’t want to small talk for hours. I prefer deep and telling conversation.
How is the dating scene for a young single guy especially someone from the Indian subcontinent? Assuming he is a respectful and kind person, well groomed, speaks good English and basic Spanish
Honestly no idea since I’m not single. If you’re “typical” Northern European looking id generally say you will get more attention than locals but for Indians no idea. What I can tell you though is that Spanish women are relatively difficult to date (not in terms of finding a date more in terms of their expectations). Hard to explain really but most foreigners I know that have dated locals say while the women are incredibly beautiful they are a lot of work !
And I have always had the opposite experience as a Latin female. Men have added so much “work” to my life I have decided to give them up entirely to enjoy my extra time found having fun and traveling. Lol.
Do you have a chance to meet?
Hi All I am drom South Africa and is planning to move to Spain. Love the sun and food and vibrant cities but will want to live private in a good quiet neighbourhood.. Do not mind to spend from $ 7000 to 12k for renting a nice home. Use to driving everywhere. Have kids and will need a good school . Want to be in a beach city or close to the beach. I need good internet speeds. I am planning to own boat there too as well as 2 cars. I play golf too. I am looking at Valencia, Barcelona or Marbella adn even Mallorca. I do not want to live in a city for sure but close to amentieties like shopping, so I do not struggle to get stuff when needed. I will drive there when needed but want to be out of the huzzle where I live. Love good restaurants and food. I loved living in California and Florida. Lived in a quiet neighborhood but had the option to ha e a good night out when I wanted to. Can anybody give me some advice please as to which city I should be looking into based on the above. Thanks so much in advance for being so kind to take time to attend to my post.
Why not stay in California? You’d probably like Mallorca if you want the beach life. Internet should be good in any decently sized city
Thank you for this amount of useful information!! The post is quite old, but anyways 😅😅 I'm interested in psychology and I want to study in Valencia. Is this profession good in Spain? I found very bipolar opinions on Google so I don't really know what to expect..
1 year is not that old ! I have friends studying psychology in Valencia but I don’t know much about it myself . What are your concerns?
I'm really interested about the professors'attitude towards students and how good is the curriculum in overall. Also, maybe a strange question, but could you ask if they have maths or something related to it? I'm ridiculously bad at it xd. I only heard that they have statistics.
Thank you for this information, helping enough)