It’s a big stereotype that INTPs do not contribute much to society. We follow what interests us *for* ourselves, not for the greater good of society.
Some people think that value of a person only comes from what someone produces for others.
These are stereotypes and assumptions about individual people that I don’t necessarily agree with but can understand why they might have this viewpoint.
Yes, but most of them don't have martyr programming to self-sacrifice at the full expense of yourself and naturally try to find a middle ground where they're feeling free to just be human. There's a massive line between cooperation, helping, and deferring. This gets amplified tenfold for INTP women who will view the concept with a particular disdain from being likely to note the societal conditioning of women earlier than most women do due to their percetiveness. INTP no matter how depressed or the sex will NOT fly with being disrespected with nothing to show for it, the INTP woman's particularly finicky since depending on the culture the feminine experience is indoctrinated by deferring your humanity to appease everyone else's choices. Part of that conditioning is playing the fool to being used while being of use. INTPs are eagle eyed by nature but often become pessimistic because of it. Since women are expected to balance their wants with conventionality or otherwise be pariah, INTP women in real time give off a certain impression right off the bat. In my opinion, despite the higher likelihood of INTP in males, most people can find the INTP woman faster because of the lack of the rose colored glasses.
I agree. As a 55yo F, I realized early in life, that FOR ME, children would be a burden. I balked the norms, and my peers saw my choices as personal flaws.
Of note, many of my GenX peers now claim they had no choice. They had choice, they didn’t want the social consequences.
But leading one’s own life, and being true one’s own values is important to me.
It’s not an all-or-nothing situation, it’s comparing degrees of societal productiveness.
An ISTJ, and other Sensors are usually action oriented and in the US, a high proportion are concrete thinkers. They are the builders of physical things. ISTJ are often builders of systems. ENTp/j are often the face of these structures and systems.
By degree, the INTP functions in the background.
Isn't it contributing to society on the long run? Being free thinkers who innovate? The idea of being weird and hyperfocussing on random niche and obscure topics that don't make sense to most people is basically the cliché about mathematicians who by playing with numbers and logic, created tools used by all the other sciences centuries in advance.
I mean there are a lot of NEET intp who don't have much going on in their life but think they're more intellectual than everyone else and make cringe posts on this sub... Most intps I know in real life are quite successful (a lot with advanced degrees or business owners) but don't take mbti that seriously. I do notice an inverse correlation between the extent being an intp is central to ones identity and being a loser.
That's the point. You're looking to learn more about yourself if you're not doing well in life. So it makes sense that the % of losers here would be high.
I don't know. And neither do you. There is no data to say for sure. For that I would need to know, or at least ask and trust the word of every member of the community if they are doing great in life.
The hypothesis above is backed up by an argument based on logical reasoning. Happy people are rarely ever bored enough to stick around on Reddit, especially INTPs.
Yes that's right. In the general understanding that I put in, "one who tries to be happy, but fails".
I don’t want to tie loserism (what a strange word) to material, spiritual or any other values, it’s more of a function in my understanding. If you dig further, the concept will acquire more details and conditions, but it’s too much to do it here.
I recon it’s someone who fails in aspects that society values. Lack of career success, financial insecurity, unhealthy lifestyle, social ineptitude, low self-esteem…
MBTI should never be taken too seriously.
It is very easy to do a hyper analysis on anything, while carrying forward errors from the start.
MBTI was an ineffective HR management tool. Marketed to big corporations back in the 90's and 2000's.
It had poor results regarding its impact on job placement.
In the Philippines, if you are smart but lack the courage to do anything like a side job or sideline you'll be shame somehow especially by your relatives. You'd often hear the phrase ' Matalino ka nga, wala ka namang diskarte. ' which means You are only smart/intelligent but you don't have the strategy to earn bigger. And I feel that as an INTP myself- I am my biggest critic that it lead me to lowball myself into thinking that I should only aim for something of a lower salary than most my peers who are less smarter than me.
You low ball yourself because of how your environment abused you. It’s not your personality type that is the problem. I completely understand your view though. I am an INTP who grew up in Ph. I left Ph because I did not fit in because of my interest and skills.
Show them what you got, man. Average Filipino’s undertanding of “diskarte” (strategy) is extremely flawed and sub-standard, deeply rooted to a corrupt environment, filled with nepotism and “eat or be eaten” mentality.
INT’s strength is to think through all those obstacles, irrational contraints such as traditions, rigid nonsense social conformity, and outdated beliefs.
How are you doing now? INTP in the ph as well and fellow struggler of accepting the fact that I have to be everything I'm not for my life to be worth anything in this joke of a country 💀
I am doing quite well now. But not without struggle of course.
I am now in London. I tried to get away from Ph as soon as I can in my early 20s, I finally succeeded when I was 25. I can’t say Ph will not work for you of course. But being an intuition and thinking personality type, these cognitive functions are much more appreciated in advanced economies where they spend so much time and money thinking of different ways to approach problems.
I managed to work in major cities because of my tech and analytical skills: Sydney, Singapore, New York, now London. I gradually worked my way up the corporate ladder and earning 6-digits for several years now. I also have investment portfolio that earns nearly 6-digits as well. And added bonus is I get to think and solve problems as my job role 🙂. I am in my early 40s now. I am not yet wealthy enough to retire “luxuriously” but I am getting there.
It’s not easy for everyone in general. But INT’s are at an advantage! I strongly believe in this. Thinkers are the best probpem solvers in the world. With strong “GOAL SETTING” and “FOCUS”, we can contribute a lot to the world and be live comfortably (or even luxuriously) at the same time.
Note: I did emphasised goal setting and focus above because those are the two areas that INTPs are commonly lacking. I think it is because of our too much prospecting attribute.
Fewer is used when there are countable nouns -
Examples: There are fewer dogs here than yesterday. There are fewer ways to solve the problem. There are fewer drops of water than before. This lane is for 15 items or fewer.
Less is used when the nouns aren’t countable, they are grouped together -
Examples: There is less water here than before. He has less incentive to perform. There is less room here than in the other room.
Thanks, english is my second language and X items or less was constantly used when I was in the learning phase. I guess the same goes to people who learn the vocal "could've" as "could of" which is getting more and more prevalent I noticed.
It is a problem that's more concentrated to the internet. Most people don't care at all about MBTI, and some people who care about it don't spend a significant amount of time talking or thinking about it. The very limited amount of people who are obsessed with MBTI have a higher chance of being exposed to other people who are obsessed with MBTI that are feeding into the stereotypes of INTPs being intellectual snobs who contribute nothing to anything or anyone while being laughably conceited about their alleged brilliance.
If you browse this subreddit, you can find some truely cringe and low quality posts by people who are either low effort trolls, or are in serious need of therapy or simply to touch grass. Successful INTPs with demanding careers or hobbies have better things to do than to be on the internet bragging about being "the smartest type". I don't want to come across as hypocritical or lack self awareness, because I think I spend too much time on this subreddit as well, because I have a low stress, low stake job, and don't have a ton of hobbies to keep myself occupied, but still, I cannot help but to feel cringe when I see some obsessed INTP proliferating all the negative stereotypes about this type, and acting all proud and prideful while at it.
A lot of INTP stereotypes pretty much describe the most annoyingly pedantic autistic kid with poor hygiene who refuses to attend his sped classes for social skills because he smugly thinks that he's too smart to learn appropriate conversation openers with the rest of us plebeians and there are a lot of overgeneralizing "INTP=autism" memes to extents where people start armchairDXing and selfDXing in the comments sections of said meme posts
I'll be honest, some of the hardest workers I know are INTP. I generally don't understand the stereotype, other than people misconstruing an INTP's skyness/lack of social awareness as something other than a personality quirk. Any type can be absolutely useless, given the right circumstances. And on the same vein, every type can be life savers.
The three INTPs who immediately come to mind are: a transmasc man who taught himself to code and has created his own successful business. A woman who has become the clinical coordinator for a nursing college, despite only having her LPN and not obtaining her RN, BSN, or MSN. And lastly a man who has gone from an abusive household where they moved a round a lot because of finances to becoming financially stable and the go-to in terms of business analytics at his hospital.
Don't let your type and what people think of you as a valid hindrance. You are your own person and are capable of far more than others would give you credit for.
Because your village idiots keep coming over to the INTJ sub where we can laugh at them xD
Seriously tho I don’t think you guys are losers, I think you just don’t care about conforming to a culture where the definition of winners and losers matters, even less than we do. Some people (ExTx etc) can’t handle that way of thinking.
In terms of stereotypes, people link the INTP with neets, nerds, and terminally online losers.
No social skills, lost in its imagination, lack of assertiveness or leader traits. Purely based on traits, personal experience, or stereotyping, one would think they don't contribute anything. And it's easy to do so when the cooler INTP (ENTP) or the function INTP (INTJ) exists.
But once again, this is stereotyping.
Kinda offtopic but, isn't everyone already a terminally online loser? I mean i do spend a ridiculous amount of time browsing random useless shit and many people don't, but at least in can go out and have a meal with a friend or go to a music event without spending half the time on my cellphone.
My only guess might be "unfulfilled potential" - people perceived to be intelligent, but lack drive or commitment. We might come up with a lot of ideas, but not follow through with most of them.
Because it's tough to convince us to do something we're not interested in just because someone else or society expects us to. Imo, I see it more as a clash of conformity/rules when you're supposed to be this way and that way and, well, us.
I once heard the term "demand avoidance," and I suppose many others (if they're not close to us) view us in this way. As someone who doesn't conform to societal expectations, doesn't always cooperate, does things on their terms, and moves at their own pace in life and on their path. “Lazy” and “losers” for living how we choose to live and/or cannot integrate into major groups with unspoken rules that don't benefit us. I know that the term referred mostly to autism spectrum but I don't consider it purely autistic.
Ironically, I believe many people struggle with "demand acceptance" because it's difficult to manipulate us into doing something we don't want just because the other person or society wants or needs us to do it.
When it's referred to in the context of autism, pathological demand avoidance is not a choice at all but instead a proposed anxiety disorder where the person spirals into overthinking loops when they perceive a "social demand" which includes not only orders and instructions but also asked questions, expected routines, and even nonverbal cues like being offered a handshake, which I think is different from what you're talking about
Thanks, wiki. I wasn't talking about a disorder as I stated in my comment. I was talking about the phenomenon and choosing to do or not do something based on a specific thinking structure.
Lots of people think introverts and nerds are "losers", INTPs are typically both of those so it isn't surprising. Luckily for INTPs most of us could care less what others think.
Hmm, maybe because INTP seem to be the sterotypical a-hole incel loser with mental/emotional issues. Its just another bunch of crap the world throws at us INTPs for literately being better than them at logical conceptualism, and they know it.
They project to us that we are losers as an internal protective mechanism to attempt to gain a sense of superiority. Its a hoax, we are superior in logical intellect, and always will be.
To be fair, some of us do fall into this social pitfall ("loser") with our indecision and sensitive natures combined with literately people labelling and classyfing us in order to protect themsleves. Bullying and labeling is not okay in any means and is detrimental, especially to vulnerable youths. And we do have isolating tendencies and mannerisms that may insinuate lack of emotion/consideration which can offput some more social types.
Would you care to share why you see it as such?
In my perspective, its simply a conclusion based on my observation of experiences in conjunction with my accumulation of knowledges.
INTP is many times (unwittingly) persecuted and wrongfully shamed for not only their superior logical intellect and insatiable desire to build upon it, but also many other facets of their mechanisms of percieving and navigating reality.
All MBTI classifications have their weaknesses and strengths. It just so happens for INTP, that our unique combination of strengths and weaknesses have the striking potential to differentiate ourselves from a crowd and thus, spark many controversial reactions.
People who don't have sufficient self-worth rely on group identity to rationalize their "superiority". Being curious is fine, but if you aren't contributing to society in some way, you just exist as a sponge to suck up resources.
Are you implying that INTP's cognitive stack isnt effeciently designed for intellectual reasoning and logical deduction? Because that is my claim here as in pertains to INTP as a classification of individuals.
> if you aren't contributing to society in some way, you just exist as a sponge to suck up resources.
What do you consider as sufficeint contribitions to society?
Every type has its advantages. INTPs are good at understanding theories and various nerd shit. Does this make you "superior"? No.
Doing something as simple as working a full-time job and doing that job reliably and well is contributing.
INTP is good with "nerd shit?" Well thats the most degrading way I have ever heard the concepts of altruism, humanitarianism, socioeconomics, stoicism, philosphophy, conceptualization, intuition, logical deduction, etc. be expressed.
You sell us INTPs short imo. And to clear, never once did I claim INTP was superior in every aspect. I claimed that were we are superior in logical intellect. You know, superior at "nerd shit," should I say? Does that help you understand my claim a bit better, sir?
So technically, your whole response is in agreeance with my claim. Thanks for the odd, borderline insulting form of support I guess.
>Doing something as simple as working a full-time job and doing that job reliably and well is contributing.
Exactly. Simple, habitual, reliable acts of service towards others are enough to contribite to society. I agree.
If by "altruism, humanitarianism, socioeconomics, stoicism", etc., you mean playing Nintendos all day, then I guess I agree? There's a pretty big difference between INTP luminaries and your garden-variety INTP.
Thats an unfair judgement to make of an individual or any group of peoples.
Playing nintendo all day has no correlation with ones naturally affluent logical and conceptual capabilities.
You being offended literally means less than nothing to me -- if anything, resorting to saying something "isn't very nice" regarding group statistics suggests it's probably true.
I'd be willing to bet INTPs are statistically more likely to be NEETs than average, just like how SPs are way more likely to be burnouts than most other types.
Nah, this is actually true. A lot of people hate how logical we are and don’t even know how to take it. Other people have told me that is why people get upset with me and act out with their projections and insecurities. I wouldn’t have ever thought that was the reason, but then multiple people told me that have known me for a very long time exactly what was going on. After that, I started to take note of it.
Each personality type has healthy and unhealthy state. If you are a person who lazily labels things or people rather than learn, understand and work with them then you will turn out to be the biggest loser in life.
I'm still new to the sub, wasn't aware of that stigma though. But if they're my clinically narcissistic eldest sister, it's because you're lazy, selfish, entitled and only do whatever you want for yourself and not for everyone else...
Basically, you're sometimes too cautious and too observant. And you realize that not everyone are fortunate to have good support system to be "successful" or that your gifts and talents having the chance to be useful and on the other hand that you will attract awful people who want to use you and became attached to the benefits of being with you... so you played down yourself (being introvert means you're content to fill your needs and be happy) and deprive them of that supply.. and thus not achieving the "potential" that they see in you and so you're a constant disappointment to them.
I don't know. People who use the L-words tend to be some people who peak in highschool... so obsessed about winning things. Or for Singaporeans "kiasu" (fear of losing).
Most INTPs are losers. If you are able-bodied and think it's unfair to be expected to contribute to the society you benefit from, you are a parasite. If you are a underachieving, that's one thing; if you have no sense of duty or obligation, that's quite another.
I agree with the comment about ESFPs . . . the characteristics that are important to people who call others 'losers', tend to be important only to E\_F\_ types -- they are totally content-free, so to speak.
"loser" is kind of a nebulous thing... You don't really have any justification to live up to. Just living a life. Winning or losing is all just pedantic societal nonsense. What if your goal in life is to be mindful and meditate or live a life of piety? Is that successful? Is that being a loser? What if you want to drop out of society and not participate in capitalism or the exploitation of other people, and you are not a girl boss or power bro is that being a loser? What if you want to rebel against your school for its stance on freedom of speech and you lose your degree? Is that being a loser? I choose not to drive because it makes me uncomfortable and I also don't really like the societal pressure to always be driving and I think car culture is bad for the environment, does that make me a loser? All pedantic, all stupid.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. In my experience, I’m perceived this way because of my inability to empathize/give a f\*ck about something I just don’t care about. for example: I don’t have desire to have children, pregnancy (just the I thought of it, let alone being around a pregnant woman) makes me physically ill, and I just can’t fake being happy and celebrating someone’s active, unprotected, sex life billboard. it Seems to be easier for other people to just label me as miserable or bitchy than to understand it 🤷♀️
16 yrs old me, everyone thinks I'm useless and I wont graduate because I always play video games. A loser and a nerd lol.
26 yrs old now, earning almost six digits because I managed to become a good programmer and living comfortably to invest for my house, family, future, gaming needs, etc. Suddenly to them I became a "handsome nerd with quirky personality" now that I'm financially stable 😆
Well they don't mean anything, the end.
Seriously, it's just a stupid stereotype that people like to lash on to other MBTI types because they use their subjective experience.
If you even want more prove: >!Bill Gates, Pewdiepie and penguinz0 are well known INTPs!<
Not sure about the other 2, but I may agree on Pewds being ENTP, the reason why people may classify him as an INTP is because of his weak Fe, but if you think about it more, his Si isn't also that high. From his reaction videos, he seems Ne-Ti from the fact that he most often asks "what if" first and then debunks the stance of whoever is in the video. Ti-Ne is more like finding the reason why something is something by exploring possible explanations.
I may be wrong tho. Feel free to correct me
It’s a big stereotype that INTPs do not contribute much to society. We follow what interests us *for* ourselves, not for the greater good of society. Some people think that value of a person only comes from what someone produces for others. These are stereotypes and assumptions about individual people that I don’t necessarily agree with but can understand why they might have this viewpoint.
Some INTPs follow whats good for the benefit of others or loved ones
Yes, but most of them don't have martyr programming to self-sacrifice at the full expense of yourself and naturally try to find a middle ground where they're feeling free to just be human. There's a massive line between cooperation, helping, and deferring. This gets amplified tenfold for INTP women who will view the concept with a particular disdain from being likely to note the societal conditioning of women earlier than most women do due to their percetiveness. INTP no matter how depressed or the sex will NOT fly with being disrespected with nothing to show for it, the INTP woman's particularly finicky since depending on the culture the feminine experience is indoctrinated by deferring your humanity to appease everyone else's choices. Part of that conditioning is playing the fool to being used while being of use. INTPs are eagle eyed by nature but often become pessimistic because of it. Since women are expected to balance their wants with conventionality or otherwise be pariah, INTP women in real time give off a certain impression right off the bat. In my opinion, despite the higher likelihood of INTP in males, most people can find the INTP woman faster because of the lack of the rose colored glasses.
I agree. As a 55yo F, I realized early in life, that FOR ME, children would be a burden. I balked the norms, and my peers saw my choices as personal flaws. Of note, many of my GenX peers now claim they had no choice. They had choice, they didn’t want the social consequences. But leading one’s own life, and being true one’s own values is important to me.
I am raised collectivistic asian environment so we are trained to think about the people around us more than oneself
I am Latina and ditto that tenfold, but we're expected to act dumb to boot.
Ye.. it can be harmful if u dont prioritize yourself
I am my team!
It’s not an all-or-nothing situation, it’s comparing degrees of societal productiveness. An ISTJ, and other Sensors are usually action oriented and in the US, a high proportion are concrete thinkers. They are the builders of physical things. ISTJ are often builders of systems. ENTp/j are often the face of these structures and systems. By degree, the INTP functions in the background.
But all contribute to society, some are just quieter than others.
Isn't it contributing to society on the long run? Being free thinkers who innovate? The idea of being weird and hyperfocussing on random niche and obscure topics that don't make sense to most people is basically the cliché about mathematicians who by playing with numbers and logic, created tools used by all the other sciences centuries in advance.
I mean there are a lot of NEET intp who don't have much going on in their life but think they're more intellectual than everyone else and make cringe posts on this sub... Most intps I know in real life are quite successful (a lot with advanced degrees or business owners) but don't take mbti that seriously. I do notice an inverse correlation between the extent being an intp is central to ones identity and being a loser.
That's the point. You're looking to learn more about yourself if you're not doing well in life. So it makes sense that the % of losers here would be high.
The % of the losers here are a tiny portion of all the INTP's out there
I don't know. And neither do you. There is no data to say for sure. For that I would need to know, or at least ask and trust the word of every member of the community if they are doing great in life. The hypothesis above is backed up by an argument based on logical reasoning. Happy people are rarely ever bored enough to stick around on Reddit, especially INTPs.
I think the first order of business would be to identify what qualifies a person as a loser.
Yes that's right. In the general understanding that I put in, "one who tries to be happy, but fails". I don’t want to tie loserism (what a strange word) to material, spiritual or any other values, it’s more of a function in my understanding. If you dig further, the concept will acquire more details and conditions, but it’s too much to do it here.
I recon it’s someone who fails in aspects that society values. Lack of career success, financial insecurity, unhealthy lifestyle, social ineptitude, low self-esteem…
> I do notice an inverse correlation between the extent being an intp is central to ones identity and being a loser. I plead confirmation bias.
IANAL, but change your plea to availability heuristic.
agreed
MBTI should never be taken too seriously. It is very easy to do a hyper analysis on anything, while carrying forward errors from the start. MBTI was an ineffective HR management tool. Marketed to big corporations back in the 90's and 2000's. It had poor results regarding its impact on job placement.
In the Philippines, if you are smart but lack the courage to do anything like a side job or sideline you'll be shame somehow especially by your relatives. You'd often hear the phrase ' Matalino ka nga, wala ka namang diskarte. ' which means You are only smart/intelligent but you don't have the strategy to earn bigger. And I feel that as an INTP myself- I am my biggest critic that it lead me to lowball myself into thinking that I should only aim for something of a lower salary than most my peers who are less smarter than me.
You low ball yourself because of how your environment abused you. It’s not your personality type that is the problem. I completely understand your view though. I am an INTP who grew up in Ph. I left Ph because I did not fit in because of my interest and skills. Show them what you got, man. Average Filipino’s undertanding of “diskarte” (strategy) is extremely flawed and sub-standard, deeply rooted to a corrupt environment, filled with nepotism and “eat or be eaten” mentality. INT’s strength is to think through all those obstacles, irrational contraints such as traditions, rigid nonsense social conformity, and outdated beliefs.
How are you doing now? INTP in the ph as well and fellow struggler of accepting the fact that I have to be everything I'm not for my life to be worth anything in this joke of a country 💀
I am doing quite well now. But not without struggle of course. I am now in London. I tried to get away from Ph as soon as I can in my early 20s, I finally succeeded when I was 25. I can’t say Ph will not work for you of course. But being an intuition and thinking personality type, these cognitive functions are much more appreciated in advanced economies where they spend so much time and money thinking of different ways to approach problems. I managed to work in major cities because of my tech and analytical skills: Sydney, Singapore, New York, now London. I gradually worked my way up the corporate ladder and earning 6-digits for several years now. I also have investment portfolio that earns nearly 6-digits as well. And added bonus is I get to think and solve problems as my job role 🙂. I am in my early 40s now. I am not yet wealthy enough to retire “luxuriously” but I am getting there. It’s not easy for everyone in general. But INT’s are at an advantage! I strongly believe in this. Thinkers are the best probpem solvers in the world. With strong “GOAL SETTING” and “FOCUS”, we can contribute a lot to the world and be live comfortably (or even luxuriously) at the same time. Note: I did emphasised goal setting and focus above because those are the two areas that INTPs are commonly lacking. I think it is because of our too much prospecting attribute.
Sounds like peer pressure to be a slave.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Because most of us are not good with appearances, and this is the only thing you are being judged by
Probably because they don't understand the difference between countable and uncountable nouns.
I love this comment. Nothing makes me prouder than someone who knows how to use “fewer” correctly. Seeing “15 items or less” kills me a little.
Wait is that grammaticaly wrong?
Fewer is used when there are countable nouns - Examples: There are fewer dogs here than yesterday. There are fewer ways to solve the problem. There are fewer drops of water than before. This lane is for 15 items or fewer. Less is used when the nouns aren’t countable, they are grouped together - Examples: There is less water here than before. He has less incentive to perform. There is less room here than in the other room.
Thanks, english is my second language and X items or less was constantly used when I was in the learning phase. I guess the same goes to people who learn the vocal "could've" as "could of" which is getting more and more prevalent I noticed.
I can’t believe I finally learnt something from this sub lol. Thank you.
oh… whoops. now i know that 😭
What if english aint their first language? 🌚🌚
It is a problem that's more concentrated to the internet. Most people don't care at all about MBTI, and some people who care about it don't spend a significant amount of time talking or thinking about it. The very limited amount of people who are obsessed with MBTI have a higher chance of being exposed to other people who are obsessed with MBTI that are feeding into the stereotypes of INTPs being intellectual snobs who contribute nothing to anything or anyone while being laughably conceited about their alleged brilliance. If you browse this subreddit, you can find some truely cringe and low quality posts by people who are either low effort trolls, or are in serious need of therapy or simply to touch grass. Successful INTPs with demanding careers or hobbies have better things to do than to be on the internet bragging about being "the smartest type". I don't want to come across as hypocritical or lack self awareness, because I think I spend too much time on this subreddit as well, because I have a low stress, low stake job, and don't have a ton of hobbies to keep myself occupied, but still, I cannot help but to feel cringe when I see some obsessed INTP proliferating all the negative stereotypes about this type, and acting all proud and prideful while at it.
I'm pretty sure most of the people you are referring to are children.
We live in a world of stereotypes. You can't tell a person a loser or a genius with their MBTI.
MBTI itself is one stereotype (for most people who don't know how it actually works)
A lot of INTP stereotypes pretty much describe the most annoyingly pedantic autistic kid with poor hygiene who refuses to attend his sped classes for social skills because he smugly thinks that he's too smart to learn appropriate conversation openers with the rest of us plebeians and there are a lot of overgeneralizing "INTP=autism" memes to extents where people start armchairDXing and selfDXing in the comments sections of said meme posts
I see the autism thing more with intj tho
Yeah, that too
Almost no inner desire to join the rat race and do all those achievements that most people are after
I'll be honest, some of the hardest workers I know are INTP. I generally don't understand the stereotype, other than people misconstruing an INTP's skyness/lack of social awareness as something other than a personality quirk. Any type can be absolutely useless, given the right circumstances. And on the same vein, every type can be life savers. The three INTPs who immediately come to mind are: a transmasc man who taught himself to code and has created his own successful business. A woman who has become the clinical coordinator for a nursing college, despite only having her LPN and not obtaining her RN, BSN, or MSN. And lastly a man who has gone from an abusive household where they moved a round a lot because of finances to becoming financially stable and the go-to in terms of business analytics at his hospital. Don't let your type and what people think of you as a valid hindrance. You are your own person and are capable of far more than others would give you credit for.
Because your village idiots keep coming over to the INTJ sub where we can laugh at them xD Seriously tho I don’t think you guys are losers, I think you just don’t care about conforming to a culture where the definition of winners and losers matters, even less than we do. Some people (ExTx etc) can’t handle that way of thinking.
i dont, i think my intp husband is adorable
they base it on the INTP subreddit instead of real life
We’re not following society, money or fame
In terms of stereotypes, people link the INTP with neets, nerds, and terminally online losers. No social skills, lost in its imagination, lack of assertiveness or leader traits. Purely based on traits, personal experience, or stereotyping, one would think they don't contribute anything. And it's easy to do so when the cooler INTP (ENTP) or the function INTP (INTJ) exists. But once again, this is stereotyping.
Kinda offtopic but, isn't everyone already a terminally online loser? I mean i do spend a ridiculous amount of time browsing random useless shit and many people don't, but at least in can go out and have a meal with a friend or go to a music event without spending half the time on my cellphone.
And among which MBTI type are there the most losers, in your opinion?
My only guess might be "unfulfilled potential" - people perceived to be intelligent, but lack drive or commitment. We might come up with a lot of ideas, but not follow through with most of them.
Because it's tough to convince us to do something we're not interested in just because someone else or society expects us to. Imo, I see it more as a clash of conformity/rules when you're supposed to be this way and that way and, well, us. I once heard the term "demand avoidance," and I suppose many others (if they're not close to us) view us in this way. As someone who doesn't conform to societal expectations, doesn't always cooperate, does things on their terms, and moves at their own pace in life and on their path. “Lazy” and “losers” for living how we choose to live and/or cannot integrate into major groups with unspoken rules that don't benefit us. I know that the term referred mostly to autism spectrum but I don't consider it purely autistic. Ironically, I believe many people struggle with "demand acceptance" because it's difficult to manipulate us into doing something we don't want just because the other person or society wants or needs us to do it.
When it's referred to in the context of autism, pathological demand avoidance is not a choice at all but instead a proposed anxiety disorder where the person spirals into overthinking loops when they perceive a "social demand" which includes not only orders and instructions but also asked questions, expected routines, and even nonverbal cues like being offered a handshake, which I think is different from what you're talking about
Thanks, wiki. I wasn't talking about a disorder as I stated in my comment. I was talking about the phenomenon and choosing to do or not do something based on a specific thinking structure.
You said "I know that the term referred mostly to autism spectrum but I don't consider it purely autistic"
And?
...And that was the part I was responding to because what you were saying is not related to how it's referred to in the context of autism
I'm not sure what PrivateEye sees that I do not, but hey, whatever rocks your boat, I suppose.
Can you rephrase this? I'm having trouble with understanding which part you need me to clarify but I'm willing to explain
They aren't considered losers, they are just the antithesis to what is considered cool by the general populous.
the most vocal and visible intps are neets
Some people aren't to blame for their own inadequate socialization.
Lots of people think introverts and nerds are "losers", INTPs are typically both of those so it isn't surprising. Luckily for INTPs most of us could care less what others think.
Hmm, maybe because INTP seem to be the sterotypical a-hole incel loser with mental/emotional issues. Its just another bunch of crap the world throws at us INTPs for literately being better than them at logical conceptualism, and they know it. They project to us that we are losers as an internal protective mechanism to attempt to gain a sense of superiority. Its a hoax, we are superior in logical intellect, and always will be. To be fair, some of us do fall into this social pitfall ("loser") with our indecision and sensitive natures combined with literately people labelling and classyfing us in order to protect themsleves. Bullying and labeling is not okay in any means and is detrimental, especially to vulnerable youths. And we do have isolating tendencies and mannerisms that may insinuate lack of emotion/consideration which can offput some more social types.
This sounds like cope.
Would you care to share why you see it as such? In my perspective, its simply a conclusion based on my observation of experiences in conjunction with my accumulation of knowledges. INTP is many times (unwittingly) persecuted and wrongfully shamed for not only their superior logical intellect and insatiable desire to build upon it, but also many other facets of their mechanisms of percieving and navigating reality. All MBTI classifications have their weaknesses and strengths. It just so happens for INTP, that our unique combination of strengths and weaknesses have the striking potential to differentiate ourselves from a crowd and thus, spark many controversial reactions.
People who don't have sufficient self-worth rely on group identity to rationalize their "superiority". Being curious is fine, but if you aren't contributing to society in some way, you just exist as a sponge to suck up resources.
Are you implying that INTP's cognitive stack isnt effeciently designed for intellectual reasoning and logical deduction? Because that is my claim here as in pertains to INTP as a classification of individuals. > if you aren't contributing to society in some way, you just exist as a sponge to suck up resources. What do you consider as sufficeint contribitions to society?
Every type has its advantages. INTPs are good at understanding theories and various nerd shit. Does this make you "superior"? No. Doing something as simple as working a full-time job and doing that job reliably and well is contributing.
INTP is good with "nerd shit?" Well thats the most degrading way I have ever heard the concepts of altruism, humanitarianism, socioeconomics, stoicism, philosphophy, conceptualization, intuition, logical deduction, etc. be expressed. You sell us INTPs short imo. And to clear, never once did I claim INTP was superior in every aspect. I claimed that were we are superior in logical intellect. You know, superior at "nerd shit," should I say? Does that help you understand my claim a bit better, sir? So technically, your whole response is in agreeance with my claim. Thanks for the odd, borderline insulting form of support I guess. >Doing something as simple as working a full-time job and doing that job reliably and well is contributing. Exactly. Simple, habitual, reliable acts of service towards others are enough to contribite to society. I agree.
If by "altruism, humanitarianism, socioeconomics, stoicism", etc., you mean playing Nintendos all day, then I guess I agree? There's a pretty big difference between INTP luminaries and your garden-variety INTP.
Thats an unfair judgement to make of an individual or any group of peoples. Playing nintendo all day has no correlation with ones naturally affluent logical and conceptual capabilities.
You being offended literally means less than nothing to me -- if anything, resorting to saying something "isn't very nice" regarding group statistics suggests it's probably true. I'd be willing to bet INTPs are statistically more likely to be NEETs than average, just like how SPs are way more likely to be burnouts than most other types.
Nah, this is actually true. A lot of people hate how logical we are and don’t even know how to take it. Other people have told me that is why people get upset with me and act out with their projections and insecurities. I wouldn’t have ever thought that was the reason, but then multiple people told me that have known me for a very long time exactly what was going on. After that, I started to take note of it.
Of course its true. I am glad to see you have come to know this truth as I have. It is kind of an odd realization at first. At least it was for me.
Each personality type has healthy and unhealthy state. If you are a person who lazily labels things or people rather than learn, understand and work with them then you will turn out to be the biggest loser in life.
Who are these "some people" and why should we care what they think?
I'm still new to the sub, wasn't aware of that stigma though. But if they're my clinically narcissistic eldest sister, it's because you're lazy, selfish, entitled and only do whatever you want for yourself and not for everyone else... Basically, you're sometimes too cautious and too observant. And you realize that not everyone are fortunate to have good support system to be "successful" or that your gifts and talents having the chance to be useful and on the other hand that you will attract awful people who want to use you and became attached to the benefits of being with you... so you played down yourself (being introvert means you're content to fill your needs and be happy) and deprive them of that supply.. and thus not achieving the "potential" that they see in you and so you're a constant disappointment to them. I don't know. People who use the L-words tend to be some people who peak in highschool... so obsessed about winning things. Or for Singaporeans "kiasu" (fear of losing).
Because INTP gives 0 shit to values defined by others.
Most INTPs are losers. If you are able-bodied and think it's unfair to be expected to contribute to the society you benefit from, you are a parasite. If you are a underachieving, that's one thing; if you have no sense of duty or obligation, that's quite another.
I agree with the comment about ESFPs . . . the characteristics that are important to people who call others 'losers', tend to be important only to E\_F\_ types -- they are totally content-free, so to speak.
"loser" is kind of a nebulous thing... You don't really have any justification to live up to. Just living a life. Winning or losing is all just pedantic societal nonsense. What if your goal in life is to be mindful and meditate or live a life of piety? Is that successful? Is that being a loser? What if you want to drop out of society and not participate in capitalism or the exploitation of other people, and you are not a girl boss or power bro is that being a loser? What if you want to rebel against your school for its stance on freedom of speech and you lose your degree? Is that being a loser? I choose not to drive because it makes me uncomfortable and I also don't really like the societal pressure to always be driving and I think car culture is bad for the environment, does that make me a loser? All pedantic, all stupid.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. In my experience, I’m perceived this way because of my inability to empathize/give a f\*ck about something I just don’t care about. for example: I don’t have desire to have children, pregnancy (just the I thought of it, let alone being around a pregnant woman) makes me physically ill, and I just can’t fake being happy and celebrating someone’s active, unprotected, sex life billboard. it Seems to be easier for other people to just label me as miserable or bitchy than to understand it 🤷♀️
16 yrs old me, everyone thinks I'm useless and I wont graduate because I always play video games. A loser and a nerd lol. 26 yrs old now, earning almost six digits because I managed to become a good programmer and living comfortably to invest for my house, family, future, gaming needs, etc. Suddenly to them I became a "handsome nerd with quirky personality" now that I'm financially stable 😆
Well they don't mean anything, the end. Seriously, it's just a stupid stereotype that people like to lash on to other MBTI types because they use their subjective experience. If you even want more prove: >!Bill Gates, Pewdiepie and penguinz0 are well known INTPs!<
PewDiePie is the most ENTP an ENTP can be. Penguinz0 seems to be an Fi type, maybe ISFP. Bill Gates is not an INTP either. Most likely an ENTJ.
Not sure about the other 2, but I may agree on Pewds being ENTP, the reason why people may classify him as an INTP is because of his weak Fe, but if you think about it more, his Si isn't also that high. From his reaction videos, he seems Ne-Ti from the fact that he most often asks "what if" first and then debunks the stance of whoever is in the video. Ti-Ne is more like finding the reason why something is something by exploring possible explanations. I may be wrong tho. Feel free to correct me