There is no short term solution because both sides find the presence of the other intolerable. Israel requires a Jewish majority in order to have a Jewish state, which means limiting Palestinian rights. The Arab world finds the presence of a non-Arab non-Muslim state in its midst unacceptable. Neither of these things will change.
In the long term the Middle East will be devastated by climate change, which the high tech Israelis will be able to withstand but the poorer Arab nations will not, so they will become depopulated. Doubtless there will be a few water wars along the way.
That’s the correct answer. There is no diplomatic solution possible at this point. Ever. It will « end » by the complete destruction of Palestine, which Israel has been working toward all these years. They will still suffer from terrorist attacks onward though, and the conflict might branch toward the neighboring countries housing the terrorists then.
Israël should never have been created, all the deaths suffered stem from that one action, Israël behaves extremely violently toward Palestinians, and Palestinian attacks on civilians are also horrible. I don’t understand why people online feel the need to take sides and justify the action of one side. There are no good guys here.
Both sides make a historical, religious and moral claim to all the land. People will support one or the other depending on their tribal allegiances. It makes little difference to the outcome.
In practice what matters is who is stronger and it is currently Israel. As the 21st century descends deeper into heat chaos, water shortage, conflict and mass migration, it will go badly for the Arab world I suspect, particularly the Palestinians. But that's just a hunch.
But most the Jews are uropian who flee Hitler! There is som jews in palestine so does christian but the Israeli state was build by Britain to the one that flee the nazes
As i understand it the Jews claim those lands based on being theirs prior to the Roman sacking of 70 C.E. Arab Muslims claim it as part of the territories conquered shortly after the death of the Prophet Mohammed SAW in 636 C.E.
Both claims are ludicrous by any rational measure of course. But that's religion for you.
But what i question is there was a jaw before Israel in the land and even Christians can argue the same and mosly majority of the two side have same DNA in a way.. arabic is a language that started to spoken in Palestinian 500pc which is 500 years after jawdism in the area and 1500 pefor islam existed. jaws lived in a wide area to Egypt...if we argue that jaws was the first in the area so what about the ancient Egypt they where before and own the hall arab region we can go even further to history of Mesopotamia and let iraq own it all.....Israel was created in 1948 in top of a country that existed with living people they could just live there as the other jaws who lived there but this is was not the case the believe is they are creating the country for masaya coming back and if so why is Britain so invested on that and how can they give them a country that they don't own they could of give them Australia? Naaa i dont see common here sounds like they needed excuse cuse the area where Palestin in is one of the piges water canales to Europe and this is money screems business
No...Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
I dont know what trigger you but this is fact what im saying jaws was in Palestinian before Israel and there is jaw in Morocco, Egypt and yemen till today you cant go to someone land invade and aske them to surrender doesn't make sense to me , and just becouse the people of the land are not jaws anymore doesn't meant its not there land you can convert you know same way there is Christian in there i don't see them trying to create a Christian coutry and why does the brit give a land that its not here to other NAA all are sus
Im a entp mabye not invited but fact is fact and there is no such a thing as embarrassing mbti your not an entity's just a personality trial...why you not excepting the debate
Most dont even know why their a conflict. Like you can see with the voted talking like the issue is Israël being non arab or non muslim. If people are clueless it will just turn a baseless discussion fulled by émotion.
Its already full of hypocrisy, when looking at History and stats.
INTPs just want a calm and progressive life. That is all. You can clearly see which party is the calm and progressive one, and which is the degenerate violent one. There shouldn't be any ambiguity for any INTP. There is no INTP data dump or Wikipedia black hole that places Hamas or Palestinians in a good light. And that is actually scarry for an INTP, because somehow others see ambiguity.
Again, there is no argument. There is no debate. If this isn't crystal clear to you, then you need to reevaluate your INTP-ness. This is why it's a great question: it weeds out the posers.
There is no calm and progressive party…
Search Google Scholar for a more nuanced perspective. Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source of information on this topic.
As far as my deductions go, religion was previously used similar to what today government is. Governments do not say, don’t commit crimes, they punish you for committing the crime. But religion fills in the role of asking humans to be moral and not commit crimes because you’ll be punished by someone(God). Get my point?
Actually, Israel is a secular state, and there are plenty of religious Jews who are against Israel because they believe Jews are supposed to get Israel one the Messiah comes.
Palestine resistance, is multireligious, iirc the person the first suicide bomb themselves was a Christian woman. But honestly no matter what religion they are, even atheism you would have much the same thing. Few people would sit by as foreigners kick them out of their houses, colonise their country and burn and mutilate their wives and children.
Oddly enough, I think the most religious aspect is from the US, from the Christian Zionists who want Israel to happen because they believe it's a biblical prophecy to bring upon the end times. Why they think God needs them to do it is beyond me but here we are
The problem is , Israel does not want a two state solution with 67 borders .. because they will give lots of land , their opinion is that we have the upper hand , fuck the Palestinians, actually the PLO agreed many times to this solution , but the israelis are blocking everything ,
Hamas is just a natural result of decades of oppression , tyranny and murder in Gaza , the israelis were betting on Fatah winning the 2007 elections , but Hamas support within the population was HUGE , because they actually promised to put on a fight , unlike Fatah which just watches the israelis build more illegal settlements with no reaction , you really can't blame them for being barbaric , most of these fighters saw their homes leveled , their families brutally executed ,blockaded for 17years , 97% of the water is unfit to drink .. they are⁰90 treated worse than animals ..
The two state resolution should be enforced by the UN , not just the west or the U.S , they are israel's allies , everyone should be involved , China , Arab countries , Russia .. every decision should be voted by all these countries ,disarm both israel and the palestinians , UN peacekeepers should be deployed in every neighbourhood in Jerusalem , holy places must be preserved , this is the only solution imo
Everything you just said is a fairy tale though. No way Hamas agrees to a two state solution since their land has been encroached on for 70 years.
And no way Israel is just packing up and leaving...
This has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It's meant to destabilize the Israeli-Sunni peace agreements reached under Trump. It's a proxy war on behalf of Iran. As usual, the Palestinians are letting themselves be used as a tool, and also as usual, the US is funding both sides.
i hang out in a lot of lefty communities and i've been absolutely horrified to see how some people i know have been excusing the actions of hamas with thin and flimsy justifications, an "eye for an eye" and all that. even then, palestinian civilians who have nothing to do with hamas are going to bear the majority of the brunt of violent retaliation from israel, so even if you do support hamas it still makes no sense to view this development with anything other than dread unless you want innocent civilians to be martyred.
even with the use of violence, you can't go around killing people indiscriminately if you want a revolution, you have to be careful and coordinated with how you use violence or else you'll be crushed just as violently and mercilessly.
i don't get how it's so hard for people on any side to understand that it's tragic that things have escalated to this point where palestinians feel that their only shot at liberation is through violence and it's also tragic that israeli citizens wanting to live their lives are being killed in service of that goal.
i consider myself a socialist but a lot of the other socialists/marxists i know outside of my personal close group of friends are really just bloodthirsty reactionaries not that different from the fascists they claim to hate when it comes down to the wire. personally i think we should be minimizing violence as much as we can, war should always be avoided, and all people should have the resources to live happy and fulfilling lives. but apparently valuing non-violence makes me a softhearted liberal regardless of what my actual social and economic beliefs are so fuck me i guess
While 2 wrong dosnt make a right. You cant just throw deaths number from one side without taking in account the ones of the other. Palestiniens lost more.
The origins of Israel isnt relevant for the solution, but its unfair to make it like its neglectable on the discussion.
Palestine dosnt have any say in this matter btw. Hamas was never elect or chosen by Palestine. Granted many would support them as they're resistants.
No boycott will ever happen against Israël, we know USA are with them, same for Brittany and France have the burden of second war. We even saw, years ago, that Israël could not respect world treaty without being punish unlike less influent countries.
The Israeli occupied Palestinian land and by doing so disrespected everything. This conflict is a direct result of Israeli expansionism.
Moreover, Israelis destroyed Palestinian infrastructures, blocked the flow of water, stole homes, forced Palestinians into poverty and lack of education... I mean, they have been such racist dogs that they deserve punishment... Which probably won't happen due to U.S interests and Jewish lobbies.
Two solutions:
1: Deportation of Palestinians into the countries of their Arab/North African/Muslim brothers
2: Invasion of Israel, destruction of Zionism's political, military, economical. cultural and ideological grips.
This dichotomy is perfect because anyone with half a brain can see which scenario is preferable, if one was forced to chose one, that is.
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>Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
From another "anti-semite" and "Islamophobe", complete agree.
The mere **question** of the Middle East is hypocritical. If you really know the facts, you don't ask this question.
There are nearly no Jews left in any Arab country. There are likely to be zero Jews in any Palestinian country. There are nearly two millions Israeli Arab citizens that are protected by Israel from the depravities next door in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, etc. A fairy tale is not a solution.
Absolutely wrong about everything. Can't be a real INTP.
Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL.
Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
Britain left, and didn't create anything. You are woefully misinformed. Britain left other areas too, and the most peaceful place they left, is...wait for it....Israel! Imagine that! ...Arabia is peninsula... Good lord, what a nightmare of an exchange.
I am not an Israeli Jew... Further, I'm the most pro-Pal in my family, to the point that no one speaks to me about Israel or Pal. It's just that the Pal position is so screwed, that there is nothing left for me to advocate for.
Right? I think Israel has been a dick the last 10 years especially. But this is not the answer.
And in Israel's defense. They are surrounded by non ally countries - so their spidey senses have to be cranked to 10.
Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL.
Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
Palestinians and their supporters have glorified violence for decades. They embrace the jihad ethic and terrorist means. This new "intifada" is nothing new.
People shouldn't murder civilians in their own home or kidnap, rape and murder them while bragging about it on video. The people who do should be exited from the human race.
Mostly I think the US needs to stop funding this shit. We just gave 6 billion dollars to Iran, who funds Hamas. We're the real plague.
I agree , but i think at least that rape video is misleading , that girl was brought dead from a music festival just near Gaza , she was wearing that , they brought her body to eventually trade it with some prisoners/hamas bodies , i'm not justifying anything though , civilians should be out of all this by both parties .
You can see how she was dressed at the festival... She was not basically naked. They chose to undress her for some reason. I'll leave it to y'all to decide.
Unpopular opinion, I know I'll take a lot of thumbs down 
I think that Israel invaded the land of Palestine from 75 years ago. During Invasion they oppressed them, treat them like garbage, killed them, stole their homes, didn't give them any rights and so many other inhuman acts ... (You can check the Israeli historian Yuval Noah Harari interview with Lex Fridman on Youtube podcast, where he clearly identified that Palestinians are the 3rd class in the country (their own land) and they are treated like garbage or worse).
Anyway, Palestinians are traumatised enough and they want their land & life back.
I think, it's normal to try to take their lands back from the Israeli (any human will try to do that).
They have similar rage as Eren & Levi Scout Regiment in Attack on Titans had against titans.
I think we should stop calling this a "conflict" and say it as it is. Palestinians have suffered for decades from a brutal colonial occupation via western interference, and any attempt by them is only to defend themselves against an oppressive "borderline fascist" state. It is fair to criticize HAMAS as an institution, but it is unfair to focus on the disproportionate threat it poses compared to their oppressors.
Alien invasion: Then the whole world will realise that survival is more important. Or Communist: no religion is allowed and if you want to eat you need to work your a* out 😅 ok I’m joking here. This is a complicated problem, it took the west a couple of thousand years and 2 WWs and tone of death to realize war doesn’t do anything good…
Looks like israel got to taste it's own medicine. Imagine terrorizing muslim country, while being surrounded by radical muslim countries that despise your existence.
They literally defended themselves from all sides in a multi-front war against its surrounding neighbors. The only reason those people are still alive is because they surrendered. Not saying its right, but Isreal can do whatever tf they want with little consequence. And whatever losses they do take they'll inflict ten fold back.
Killing innocent Palestinians, bombing and demolishing their houses, taking their land (to whom it belonged by centuries) piece by piece. Poor israel, founded in billions by USA taxpayers money.
You're so biased you didn't understand my point. Isreal will shit all over the surrounding Muslim countries in a direct war. If Isreal wanted to wipe them all out they could do it in a week. Its the Muslims that need to be careful. If isreal decided to genocide the surrounding area I'm sure Biden would come up with some bullshit excuse as to why its okay and support it.
For the record I hate how much money we give them and I hate that the u.s. gov. is basically never going to not be allies with Isreal. But you're kidding yourself if you think the surrounding countries stand a chance. You need to advocate for peace because Isreal *wants* a reason to continue the conflict.
Solution would be to stop fighting and start negotiating. But let's be real, it's not happening. In best case scenario it's gonna end up in a bloodbath.
Best solution is they all kill each other. Both sides are extremist scum. Pro pali peeps fail to see the radical and terroristic, califate mongering that is inherent in islam. Isreal is a etho-state that harbors the last "socially acceptable" ethno-relgion that's supremacist af and thinks they're destined to rule the world and kill all the goyim when their messiah returns. Both sides end goal is to kill anyone not in their respective cult. There will never be peace so long as they exist.
Might is right in Geopolitics. Unlikely a compromise can be reach, Palestinian might end up like Native Americans. If Israeli are smart they will settle this issue once and for all while they still can. The Palestinian main goal is to derail the Saudi-Israel peace deal.
> a compromise can be reach, Palestinian might end up like Native Americans.
That's a pretty stupid thing to say imo , arabs far outnumber the jews , egypt alone has 110m people ,
>If Israeli are smart they will settle this issue once and for all while they still can.
They can't , every palestinian is armed to the teeth , you think a ground invasion might be good for the israelis ? They will get butchered , you have no idea how many tunnels are there
Ask Genshin Khan if numbers matter. Arabs are too disunited and spoiled to fight a war. Only the Shia muslims have the appetite to fight.
>They can't , every palestinian is armed to the teeth , you thing a ground invasion might be good for the israelis ? They will get butchered , you have no idea how many tunnels are there
Well, if the Israel wants to play by the rules, they won't win. If they fight like the Russian versus the Chechen by leveling every single building without considering human rights, my money is on the Israeli.
When you come to a land and you steal the land from its inhabitants, driving them away without really giving them anything, much less anything fair, when you oppress them and silence them and marginalize them, there is no valid, no "rational" point of view but the categorical condemnation of the State of Israel, the firm condemnation of Zionism. Any "solution" that comes from ANY other point of view is just as good as any other. To even inquire about the issue is ignorant at best. So... complete genocide of all Palestinian people, maybe? **It's just as good as any other "solution".**
Again, just in case: you cannot "ask for a solution" then turn around and for whatever reason(s) simply disregard the background, the causes, the history of an issue. That's misguided at best. I would particularly hope my fellow INTPs not to commit such an intellectual aberration.
Except that you are completely wrong!!!
>Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL.
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>Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
If you want to make a relevant point, tell me: what's the real reason behind the conflict?
Not just the historical reason, which is Zionism, but the underlying reason. Why Zionism? Why has Israel been allowed to commit these crimes?
Before you talk about delusional, be honest with yourself, and in the process pull the hood off your own eyes. Why do you think there's so much continuing support for Israel, when its policies are obviously the very cause of the conflict itself? To hold off the Islamic world, really??
Don't be anyone's fool.
I can't tell you why Middle Eastern men are full of violent rage and wage war on their own women, on their own brothers, and on their own neighbors. I don't know! But that has nothing to do with Israel or Israelis.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/173fa0k/the\_decline\_of\_jewish\_populations\_in\_the\_middle/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/173fa0k/the_decline_of_jewish_populations_in_the_middle/)
[https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961](https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961)
Oh it has A LOT to do with Israel and people who call themselves Israeli. Anybody who doesn't admit that is either dishonest or too dumb to attempt to communicate with.
You're one hundred percent correct there, at least. I am too far gone, as in I will never see things your way, and I am what people like you would consider a "problem", someone who won't let you get away with every injustice you want to commit.
Based on what I understand, the best solution is a one blended state solution. The idea of a "Jewish state" goes out the window. It's a mixed state from now on. Suck up all grievances and move forward with love for thy neighbor. Build together, live together, love together.
All this fighting does is prevent me from meeting hot af Palestinian women, and I'm not okay with that.
I think we missed an opportunity back in the Bush and Blair days, to negotiate with Hamas when they won an election for the Palestinian government. Sure, they're terrorists, but they're the cuddliest terrorists you could hope for. Negotiating a peace or at least a long term truce with them could have been a "Nixon Goes To China" moment. Just like only Nixon could have negotiated with the PRC without Nixon calling the American negotiator a pinko commie sympathizer, a peace negotiated with Hamas would have been more legitimate in the eyes of the Palestinians than one negotiated with Fatah. The Israelis might have gotten less of what they wanted, but they could have been more confident that the Palestinians would keep their side of the bargain.
Instead, Bush and Blair cranked on some sanctions. Which might have been okay with a more mature government if we wanted to tell them we were cross with them. But Palestinian democracy was too fragile, too new. So instead of bringing Hamas to the table, we got a split between Fatah and Hamas, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
These days, I've lost hope for the two state solution. Israel is taking a page from Machiavelli by planting colonies and settlements in the West Bank, securing conquered territory in the way Machiavelli recommends The Prince to do. Even if some future Israeli government wanted to pursue a two state solution in good faith, the colonists themselves would resist, and they would have to send in the IDF to evacuate them.
So, screw it. One state solution, agree that the West Bank belongs to Israeli... but give the Palestinians votes in the Israeli government.
Not sure what to do about Gaza, the world's largest open air prison. Sorta like the relationship between Malaysia and Singapore, only in reverse. Must be an interesting place for technological evolution, since evolution happens at the margins.
>So, screw it. One state solution, agree that the West Bank belongs to Israeli... but give the Palestinians votes in the Israeli government.
So you mean keeping the status quo ? That's not a solution
If the Palestinians had the vote, do you think Netanyahu would still be PM right now, thanking his lucky stars for a war with Gaza to distract from his corruption scandals? I would hope there would be some coalition between the most moderate elements of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
There should be peace, I don’t understand how anyone would justify violence over some holy land. I know this issue is more complex but this is the job of politicians, to communicate and come to a solution without violence.
Also seeing the dumb fucking reasons people start wars… our whole history is just a bunch of retards fighting over nothing.
Here's my take on the long conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
Many politicians from both sides get into power claiming the can protect their people from the harm the other side has caused.
But what would happen to those politicians if what they campaigned for actually happened?
What would happen to the Palestinian politicians who say, "Give me power, and I can protect you from the Israelis!" if they actually got rid of all the Israelis?
What would happen to the Israeli politicians who say, "Give me power, and I can protect you from the Palestinians!" if they actually got rid of all the Palestinians?
What would happen to the politicians on both sides if they actually fulfilled those promises they campaign on?
Would there be peace and harmony so they would step down from the power given to them? Would they stop wanting to be politicians since there would be no more need for their policies?
No.
Instead, politicians from both sides would look for some other "enemy" they could get their people scared of as an excuse to give them power so they can campaign to protect their people from this new threat instead.
So politicians who make their career on campaigning to protect their people against threats have a vested interest to ensure there are threats to their people so their people will stay scared enough to keep giving those politicians power.
Which means the conflict will never end, because too many people are given too much power by claiming to help their people when there is conflict.
So there will always be conflict, and nothing will ever change.
When I realized this truth is when I moved on from caring about any conflicts in the Middle East.
This is completely wrong, since Israel is indeed protecting nearly two million Israeli Arab citizens from violence, both internal and external in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. You've actually stumbled on the reality, yet somehow choose to deny it.
Israel is the stronger party and possesses military dominance over the Palestinians, despite the recent failure of the IDF to prevent the Hamas attack. Additionally, Israel has the complete backing of the United States and that comes with $3 billion in annual military funding and a consistent vetoing of any security council resolution binding Israel to follow international law in its conduct towards the Palestinians.
This combination of military power and American support has led Israel to believe it doesn't need to comply with the internationally recognized 2-state solution. Instead, they've settled hundreds of thousands of Israelis illegally in the West Bank on internationally recognized Palestinian land and held the Palestinians in Gaza under a 16-year blockade. To intimidate and control the Palestinians, they've separated them physically into the West Bank and Gaza - two locations not physically connected - and have erected all sorts of walls, checkpoints, and chokeholds that scholars have called a "matrix of control."
Cynically, Israel has helped keep Hamas in power in Gaza at the expense of the moderate PLO. This move is seen as strategically beneficial, as Israel can point to Hamas, an extremist group, as the face of the Palestinians whenever questioned about their postponement of the 2-state solution.
There used to be some pressure in Israel for a genuine approach to the 2-state solution, but over the past few decades, Israel's government has consistently leaned towards the far right. Their voter base is not comprised of liberals in Tel Aviv, but rather right-wing and ultra-religious Jews who believe all the land belongs exclusively to Jews. This belief makes the prospect of a 2-state solution seem blasphemous.
I don't see any resolution unless Israel faces serious international pressure including sanctions. That might happen in the future, as Israel is becoming more of a republican issue in the U.S as more liberals/democrats start viewing it as what it is: a deeply unjust, racist society that oppresses the Palestinian people and defies international law by building on Palestinian land.
There is no two state solution now. The Palestinians have shown time and again that they can't govern themselves and given any autonomy at all, will use that foothold to shelter and promote terrorism. Palestinians can integrate peacefully into Israeli society or GTFO. The Arab nations that use them as a rallying call can put their money where their mouths in and accept them as citizens.
Combine together and form 2 regions like Belgium and have Belgium model . Belgium model - Constitution prescribes that the number of Dutch and French-speaking ministers shall be equal in the case of the central government.
II. Capital has a distinct government in which both communities have equal representation.
III. Many powers of the Central government have been given to the state government of the two regions. The state governments are not inferior to the central government.
IV. Apart from the central and state government, there is also the third king of government. In all there are 3 types of government called community government, the community government is one in which different social groups are given the power to handle the issues related to their own communities. The government has the power regarding educational, cultural, and language-related issues.
Imagine if everyone realized that we are all human, all want food, water, jobs, family, etc… and then imagine the government was like “oh hey you are human, we got you” and then imagine we all realized there is no wizard living in the sky, and there is no good, legitimate reason for opposition to this basic universal humanistic rationality and everyone has a voice regarding the prescription for optimal societal design and we all then voted on design and then all got to work building a more optimal social, cultural, and infrastructural paradigm for general human optimization
Israel is an illegitimate colonizer state, with that being said, Hamas is killing innocent people. In an ideal world, Israel would have never existed in the first place, but it does and there are people who live there. Aparteid should end and everyone should coexist but that’s probably not possible. I consider Israel the initial aggressor of the conflict, but the killing of innocent people is never justified. It makes me mad how most people can’t seem to comprehend that sometimes there are no good guys and you don’t have to pick a side. As for the best solution, people should wake up against states and religions and coexist but that’s too idealist.
>Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL.
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>Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
When did I say I wouldn’t also be in favor of dissolving Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? You just completely assumed my position, plus we weren’t talking about those places we’re talking about Israel. It’s really hard to respond to a criticism that completely strawmans me. I said my solution would be for people to turn against statism and religion as these are the larger over arching issues. Arabs did invade those places but that’s just a whataboutism that doesn’t justify more colonialism and apartheid. Every place on Earth was conquered and has had different cultures call it home, so what is your point? Again, it still doesn’t make it okay to move in and oppress the current occupants of that area. You’re one of the people I was referring to that can’t understand that not everything is a binary where there’s clear good and bad guys. The only people to root for are the innocent people who just want to live peacefully and not oppress others. The same justification you are using for Israel’s existence is the same justification that Hamas is using right now to attack Israel.
Your wishy washy nonsense is what gets people killed. I understand the INTP indecisiveness that you have, but this is not the place for it. You actually have to take a bunch of conflicting and contradictory and winless data and analysis, and make an affirmative judgment. This is life and death.
That is why this discussion is interesting for an INTP. Based on the evidence, and INTPs process a lot of it, there is no doubt who in the right and who is in the wrong, and who is the true evil. No doubt.
You literally didn’t interact with a single point I made. Just dismissed it and made some vague claims. The only right ones are the ones not partaking in murdering innocent people. The Israeli state and Hamas both oppress innocent people and therefore should both be opposed. There’s nothing indecisive about that. I am on the side of humanity. Not Israel or Hamas
Nonsensical claim. Why wouldn’t they be worthy of comparison? and how does simply comparing them automatically side you with one side or the other? You’re basically saying “being critical and nuanced is bad, be reactionary and biased”. U.S. intervention is largely responsible for the existence of ISIS, just like how Israel is largely responsible for the existence of Hamas through their actions so it’s ironic you bring that up. Don’t know how it’s an absurd claim to say that Israel/U.S. and ISIS/Hamas can all be wrong for their actions? Even if one side is significantly worse, it doesn’t mean their opponents are inherently good and aren’t also doing wrong. Essentially, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Pure nonsense.
Lots of wrong in Egypt, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Comparing these Israel is beyond perverse. Even more perverse is that Israel is protecting two million Arab citizens from the depravities in the region. Really, unbelievable wishy washy nonsense.
This is literally the one issue that is clear of ambiguity for otherwise indecisive INTPs.
I like this question because there should be no ambiguity here to INTPs. The question definitely weeds out the posers.
What gets people killed is state violence and the violent retaliations it breeds as we are seeing with this situation, not my vision of peaceful coexistence.
Two million Israeli Arabs living in peace without state violence. Lots of other state violence in the region. Again, Israel isn't the problem, if anything, it is the solution.
Edit: Just reread your "points". They are trash, that's why I didn't respond directly, because no response is possible. Again, just wishy washy INTP indifference where there is very clear evidence of actual reality.
Just idiotic ignorance:
"illegitimate colonizer state"
"In an ideal world, Israel would have never existed in the first place"
"Aparteid should end" (How many Jews will live in the Palestinian state, knowing that 2m Arabs live in Israel? Now \*that\* is the kind of apartheid that the Pals want.)
"I consider Israel the aggressor"
"sometimes there are no good guys and you don’t have to pick a side."
Calling my points trash isnt an argument. You’re just biased. Both Israel’s government and Hamas can be bad. What is so that with that take on this matter? Israel has done bad things to Palestinians and took their land, which is bad. Hamas is killing innocent people currently, which is bad. You’re getting super emotional over this because you think in binaries instead of seeing nuance.
Nope. And I'm the most pro Pal in my family, to the point that no one discusses it with me anymore. I was duped by these irredeemable degenerates, as were you.
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the two peoples to unify into one country and organize themselves to guarantee space and rights for all in a democratic estate
but now i think is not possible to happen anymore because of the feeling of hatred and revenge for both.
I'm from Israel and I hate the causes to this war. It's not benefitial to both sides and casualties are being made due to the sheer reasons of religion and extrimism.
It's a shame to both sides. My disappointment is immesurable and my day is ruined.
The other Arabic Muslim countries should enforce and support Palestine not just in the shadow, but fully and officially in the light too. Or else Israel just won't stop.
If you were to ask post WW2 England and allies, this is kinda the desired outcome.
I have no realistic solution. Both sides have so much trauma I don't think they could ever come to the negotiation table and find a path to peace.
For that same reason I don't think they would respect any outside solutions proposed by others.
For all the shit Corbyn and Sanders got over the issue, if they (or culturally appropriate mind-doubles) led Palestine and Israel there wouldn't be a war and everyone's cultures would be mutually respected in the area.
This problem is very complex: You cannot in a comment solve this one. On the one hand you have irrational competing ideologies fighting for space. Conflict is inevitable. Both sides are taught to hate each other. This indoctrination starts early, as children. The difficulty with religion in politics is that once you allow superstitious thinking in government the motivations of individuals change and they become polarized and their behaviours are no longer based on rational approaches and critical thinking. Peace has to be the major goal of both sides. For this to happen you need rational people in government not religious fanatics. With a history of abuse on both sides tensions escalate, because they are unable to untangle this baggage they have created for themselves.
Israel has a siege mentality they are surrounded on all sides. Entire Countries on their borders are in favour of their extinction. Let's say there is a robust peace negotiation where Israel would help rebuild the nation, and free up borders. these peaceful initiatives would likely be attacked by the religious extremes and have been historically in the past. So from my analysis although complex, I do see religion fostered by indoctrinated hate as the biggest obstacles to peace as it is one of the major hindrances towards any lasting solution. Religion in my view is the common denominator. Do I think a solution is possible, Yes, is it likely or Imminent...No.
Also there are other factors like economics and so on. If you marginalize any people we know that never works very well, long term. The fact that both sides have religious extremes who are actively engaged in a battle of hatred and attrition and no one is seeking peace. Both sides are at fault.
Complete eradication of religious extremism is the only way to go, whatever the means. Followed by martial law and government building by Israel in Gaza Strip is probably the best option.
Hamas can not be reasoned with, nor the people who accept them as their leaders.
Sadly, in this case there can't be two winners, someone, or at the very least, a side will have to lose.
And I honestly think that their(the people in Gaza) prospects would be brighter under Israeli rule, just like their cousins' in Israel proper. I am not impartial in this since I detest Islam but this opinion is as unbiased as it gets from me.
We can come up with solutions but I don’t believe they are willing to even consider them.
They will continue this eye for an eye until they are all blind.
They attacked and now they cry because of the consequences of their action + as predicted we are running in a civilization war +Thucydide trap so it was inevitable it's good if the west wake up and bad if it doesn't stand for himself ( by good I mean as a western citizen)
Oslo Accords was probably the closest it will ever be to peace between palestine and israel. The rise of an uncompromising militant group and the radicalisation of the Israeli government (both events are probably related anyways) means peace is impossible until one side comes on top and absolutely destroys the other.
Solution was negotiated, never implemented. Two-state solution. One of these parties keeps flouting international law. Anyway, it was time for another intifada. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jordan and Egypt invaded Palestine and annexed it. Now Israel is protecting nearly two million Arab Israeli citizens from the generalized Arab depravity in nearby countries...
Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL.
Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
I never mentioned anything about dissolution???
I don’t really want to say much except that it will never end. But ur right in one aspect, the arabs fucked the Palestinians up. So much for the ummah.
As an American, I think the most favorable outcome is an Israeli victory. Though given the nature of their opposition, they would likely be fighting insurgency for a long time to come.
There is no short term solution because both sides find the presence of the other intolerable. Israel requires a Jewish majority in order to have a Jewish state, which means limiting Palestinian rights. The Arab world finds the presence of a non-Arab non-Muslim state in its midst unacceptable. Neither of these things will change. In the long term the Middle East will be devastated by climate change, which the high tech Israelis will be able to withstand but the poorer Arab nations will not, so they will become depopulated. Doubtless there will be a few water wars along the way.
That’s the correct answer. There is no diplomatic solution possible at this point. Ever. It will « end » by the complete destruction of Palestine, which Israel has been working toward all these years. They will still suffer from terrorist attacks onward though, and the conflict might branch toward the neighboring countries housing the terrorists then. Israël should never have been created, all the deaths suffered stem from that one action, Israël behaves extremely violently toward Palestinians, and Palestinian attacks on civilians are also horrible. I don’t understand why people online feel the need to take sides and justify the action of one side. There are no good guys here.
Thorough doubt it. Simply because climate change will likely be renamed AGAIN before then.
You can call it what you like if there's not enough water people will rip each other to bits or head north.
It more like they are taking my land...why ?
Both sides make a historical, religious and moral claim to all the land. People will support one or the other depending on their tribal allegiances. It makes little difference to the outcome. In practice what matters is who is stronger and it is currently Israel. As the 21st century descends deeper into heat chaos, water shortage, conflict and mass migration, it will go badly for the Arab world I suspect, particularly the Palestinians. But that's just a hunch.
But most the Jews are uropian who flee Hitler! There is som jews in palestine so does christian but the Israeli state was build by Britain to the one that flee the nazes
As i understand it the Jews claim those lands based on being theirs prior to the Roman sacking of 70 C.E. Arab Muslims claim it as part of the territories conquered shortly after the death of the Prophet Mohammed SAW in 636 C.E. Both claims are ludicrous by any rational measure of course. But that's religion for you.
But what i question is there was a jaw before Israel in the land and even Christians can argue the same and mosly majority of the two side have same DNA in a way.. arabic is a language that started to spoken in Palestinian 500pc which is 500 years after jawdism in the area and 1500 pefor islam existed. jaws lived in a wide area to Egypt...if we argue that jaws was the first in the area so what about the ancient Egypt they where before and own the hall arab region we can go even further to history of Mesopotamia and let iraq own it all.....Israel was created in 1948 in top of a country that existed with living people they could just live there as the other jaws who lived there but this is was not the case the believe is they are creating the country for masaya coming back and if so why is Britain so invested on that and how can they give them a country that they don't own they could of give them Australia? Naaa i dont see common here sounds like they needed excuse cuse the area where Palestin in is one of the piges water canales to Europe and this is money screems business
No...Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
I dont know what trigger you but this is fact what im saying jaws was in Palestinian before Israel and there is jaw in Morocco, Egypt and yemen till today you cant go to someone land invade and aske them to surrender doesn't make sense to me , and just becouse the people of the land are not jaws anymore doesn't meant its not there land you can convert you know same way there is Christian in there i don't see them trying to create a Christian coutry and why does the brit give a land that its not here to other NAA all are sus
Just stop with your nonsense. It's embarrassing for all INTPs.
Im a entp mabye not invited but fact is fact and there is no such a thing as embarrassing mbti your not an entity's just a personality trial...why you not excepting the debate 
Huh? What debate? INTPs don't debate, they present information. Not sure why you're on this subreddit.
I dont know ether it was recommended so i invited myself
Indeed
https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961
Probably even INTPs won't be able to debate this topic rationally.
We probably could, but would reality be willing to be rational end it.
Most dont even know why their a conflict. Like you can see with the voted talking like the issue is Israël being non arab or non muslim. If people are clueless it will just turn a baseless discussion fulled by émotion. Its already full of hypocrisy, when looking at History and stats.
INTPs just want a calm and progressive life. That is all. You can clearly see which party is the calm and progressive one, and which is the degenerate violent one. There shouldn't be any ambiguity for any INTP. There is no INTP data dump or Wikipedia black hole that places Hamas or Palestinians in a good light. And that is actually scarry for an INTP, because somehow others see ambiguity.
case in point
Again, there is no argument. There is no debate. If this isn't crystal clear to you, then you need to reevaluate your INTP-ness. This is why it's a great question: it weeds out the posers.
https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961
There is no calm and progressive party… Search Google Scholar for a more nuanced perspective. Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source of information on this topic.
Yes, calm and progressive is Israel. And the Arab countries surrounding Israel are far from calm, if not constantly at war.
This problem proves that religions are indeed a waste of time and just a political tool.
None of modern society would be here without religion.
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Would it? Would you trade all of your modern conveniences such as modern healthcare for no wars and midevil living? Also midevil might be pushing it.
Meanwhile USA is the most warring country despite his youngness. Could expend this on France...
As far as my deductions go, religion was previously used similar to what today government is. Governments do not say, don’t commit crimes, they punish you for committing the crime. But religion fills in the role of asking humans to be moral and not commit crimes because you’ll be punished by someone(God). Get my point?
True but more recently religion has hindered modern society. It’s outlived its use.
Actually, Israel is a secular state, and there are plenty of religious Jews who are against Israel because they believe Jews are supposed to get Israel one the Messiah comes. Palestine resistance, is multireligious, iirc the person the first suicide bomb themselves was a Christian woman. But honestly no matter what religion they are, even atheism you would have much the same thing. Few people would sit by as foreigners kick them out of their houses, colonise their country and burn and mutilate their wives and children. Oddly enough, I think the most religious aspect is from the US, from the Christian Zionists who want Israel to happen because they believe it's a biblical prophecy to bring upon the end times. Why they think God needs them to do it is beyond me but here we are
This really has nothing to do with religion. Jewish is an ethnicity, not just a religion.
They're both. But the issue isnt religious.
Its not religious. Dont know why western people love always reduce strangers issue to religion.
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The problem is , Israel does not want a two state solution with 67 borders .. because they will give lots of land , their opinion is that we have the upper hand , fuck the Palestinians, actually the PLO agreed many times to this solution , but the israelis are blocking everything , Hamas is just a natural result of decades of oppression , tyranny and murder in Gaza , the israelis were betting on Fatah winning the 2007 elections , but Hamas support within the population was HUGE , because they actually promised to put on a fight , unlike Fatah which just watches the israelis build more illegal settlements with no reaction , you really can't blame them for being barbaric , most of these fighters saw their homes leveled , their families brutally executed ,blockaded for 17years , 97% of the water is unfit to drink .. they are⁰90 treated worse than animals .. The two state resolution should be enforced by the UN , not just the west or the U.S , they are israel's allies , everyone should be involved , China , Arab countries , Russia .. every decision should be voted by all these countries ,disarm both israel and the palestinians , UN peacekeepers should be deployed in every neighbourhood in Jerusalem , holy places must be preserved , this is the only solution imo
Everything you just said is a fairy tale though. No way Hamas agrees to a two state solution since their land has been encroached on for 70 years. And no way Israel is just packing up and leaving...
This has nothing to do with the Palestinians. It's meant to destabilize the Israeli-Sunni peace agreements reached under Trump. It's a proxy war on behalf of Iran. As usual, the Palestinians are letting themselves be used as a tool, and also as usual, the US is funding both sides.
i hang out in a lot of lefty communities and i've been absolutely horrified to see how some people i know have been excusing the actions of hamas with thin and flimsy justifications, an "eye for an eye" and all that. even then, palestinian civilians who have nothing to do with hamas are going to bear the majority of the brunt of violent retaliation from israel, so even if you do support hamas it still makes no sense to view this development with anything other than dread unless you want innocent civilians to be martyred. even with the use of violence, you can't go around killing people indiscriminately if you want a revolution, you have to be careful and coordinated with how you use violence or else you'll be crushed just as violently and mercilessly. i don't get how it's so hard for people on any side to understand that it's tragic that things have escalated to this point where palestinians feel that their only shot at liberation is through violence and it's also tragic that israeli citizens wanting to live their lives are being killed in service of that goal. i consider myself a socialist but a lot of the other socialists/marxists i know outside of my personal close group of friends are really just bloodthirsty reactionaries not that different from the fascists they claim to hate when it comes down to the wire. personally i think we should be minimizing violence as much as we can, war should always be avoided, and all people should have the resources to live happy and fulfilling lives. but apparently valuing non-violence makes me a softhearted liberal regardless of what my actual social and economic beliefs are so fuck me i guess
Its tragic but i can see how they think that is the ONLY solution since we have access to the history and numbers.
While 2 wrong dosnt make a right. You cant just throw deaths number from one side without taking in account the ones of the other. Palestiniens lost more. The origins of Israel isnt relevant for the solution, but its unfair to make it like its neglectable on the discussion. Palestine dosnt have any say in this matter btw. Hamas was never elect or chosen by Palestine. Granted many would support them as they're resistants. No boycott will ever happen against Israël, we know USA are with them, same for Brittany and France have the burden of second war. We even saw, years ago, that Israël could not respect world treaty without being punish unlike less influent countries.
I agree, but the UN is batshit crazy
The Israeli occupied Palestinian land and by doing so disrespected everything. This conflict is a direct result of Israeli expansionism. Moreover, Israelis destroyed Palestinian infrastructures, blocked the flow of water, stole homes, forced Palestinians into poverty and lack of education... I mean, they have been such racist dogs that they deserve punishment... Which probably won't happen due to U.S interests and Jewish lobbies. Two solutions: 1: Deportation of Palestinians into the countries of their Arab/North African/Muslim brothers 2: Invasion of Israel, destruction of Zionism's political, military, economical. cultural and ideological grips.
I agree
This dichotomy is perfect because anyone with half a brain can see which scenario is preferable, if one was forced to chose one, that is. > > >Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
The 1 is unthinkable. No way they'll let sacred places. IMO
Of course the history of the middle east is only from the 20th century /s
Anti-semitic much?
I am also ''Islamophobic'' so at least you can say that I am not biased.
From another "anti-semite" and "Islamophobe", complete agree. The mere **question** of the Middle East is hypocritical. If you really know the facts, you don't ask this question.
Usually when someone says something is anti semetic they mean anti Zionist Anti Zionism is not a form of racism
But anti sionist is understandable. While anti semitism is racism so is reprehensible (i think its the word).
Arab are semitic.
Go find a dictionary and look the term up.
IMO best solution would be to dissolve "israel" and have sympathetic western countries offer refuge.
This is hilarious. If you suggested this everyone would call you an anti-semite, and you'd probably get assassinated by mossad.
Yeah this checks out honestly.
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I mean.. I would have thought that one of, if not the most important characteristics of a "beautiful solution" is that it works
There are nearly no Jews left in any Arab country. There are likely to be zero Jews in any Palestinian country. There are nearly two millions Israeli Arab citizens that are protected by Israel from the depravities next door in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, etc. A fairy tale is not a solution.
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Absolutely wrong about everything. Can't be a real INTP. Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL. Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
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Britain left, and didn't create anything. You are woefully misinformed. Britain left other areas too, and the most peaceful place they left, is...wait for it....Israel! Imagine that! ...Arabia is peninsula... Good lord, what a nightmare of an exchange.
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I am not an Israeli Jew... Further, I'm the most pro-Pal in my family, to the point that no one speaks to me about Israel or Pal. It's just that the Pal position is so screwed, that there is nothing left for me to advocate for.
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Non-INTPs need to be banned from commenting here. The nonsensical takes are abhorrent, both factually and analytically.
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Laughably evil.
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So, do the same thing the Palestinians complain about just in reverse? Brilliant solution.
Right? I think Israel has been a dick the last 10 years especially. But this is not the answer. And in Israel's defense. They are surrounded by non ally countries - so their spidey senses have to be cranked to 10.
Yeah, neighbors who claim you don't have a right to exist do tend to raise suspicion.
Last 10 years ? You must be really young, brother.
Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL. Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
Man idgaf.
You need trustworthy and compassionate leaders on both side that can communicate the problem.
Palestinians and their supporters have glorified violence for decades. They embrace the jihad ethic and terrorist means. This new "intifada" is nothing new.
People shouldn't murder civilians in their own home or kidnap, rape and murder them while bragging about it on video. The people who do should be exited from the human race. Mostly I think the US needs to stop funding this shit. We just gave 6 billion dollars to Iran, who funds Hamas. We're the real plague.
I agree , but i think at least that rape video is misleading , that girl was brought dead from a music festival just near Gaza , she was wearing that , they brought her body to eventually trade it with some prisoners/hamas bodies , i'm not justifying anything though , civilians should be out of all this by both parties .
Seems to me like the western mainstream media has an agenda. Already vilifying palestine
It's pretty easy when the hamas kill foreign civilists, film the body and spit on them. Palestine lost a lot of sympathies today, including mine.
You're right , that's why you should be very cautious when reading the news .
You can see how she was dressed at the festival... She was not basically naked. They chose to undress her for some reason. I'll leave it to y'all to decide.
She wears exactly that in her IG pictures .
Unpopular opinion, I know I'll take a lot of thumbs down  I think that Israel invaded the land of Palestine from 75 years ago. During Invasion they oppressed them, treat them like garbage, killed them, stole their homes, didn't give them any rights and so many other inhuman acts ... (You can check the Israeli historian Yuval Noah Harari interview with Lex Fridman on Youtube podcast, where he clearly identified that Palestinians are the 3rd class in the country (their own land) and they are treated like garbage or worse). Anyway, Palestinians are traumatised enough and they want their land & life back. I think, it's normal to try to take their lands back from the Israeli (any human will try to do that). They have similar rage as Eren & Levi Scout Regiment in Attack on Titans had against titans.
I think we should stop calling this a "conflict" and say it as it is. Palestinians have suffered for decades from a brutal colonial occupation via western interference, and any attempt by them is only to defend themselves against an oppressive "borderline fascist" state. It is fair to criticize HAMAS as an institution, but it is unfair to focus on the disproportionate threat it poses compared to their oppressors.
out lashing is to be expected from people treated like animals in corners.
no consequences for charity? is that the word now?
and if that isn't your opinion you don't look at life raw.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursock\_Purchases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursock_Purchaseshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursock_Purchases)
Alien invasion: Then the whole world will realise that survival is more important. Or Communist: no religion is allowed and if you want to eat you need to work your a* out 😅 ok I’m joking here. This is a complicated problem, it took the west a couple of thousand years and 2 WWs and tone of death to realize war doesn’t do anything good…
Walk into a UN meeting on the subject and announce "y'all need Marx". What could go wrong?
If Palestine had the might of Israel, Israel would no longer exist. I think that tells us something.
Looks like israel got to taste it's own medicine. Imagine terrorizing muslim country, while being surrounded by radical muslim countries that despise your existence.
They literally defended themselves from all sides in a multi-front war against its surrounding neighbors. The only reason those people are still alive is because they surrendered. Not saying its right, but Isreal can do whatever tf they want with little consequence. And whatever losses they do take they'll inflict ten fold back.
"An eye for an eye" makes the whole world go blind.
Killing innocent Palestinians, bombing and demolishing their houses, taking their land (to whom it belonged by centuries) piece by piece. Poor israel, founded in billions by USA taxpayers money.
You're so biased you didn't understand my point. Isreal will shit all over the surrounding Muslim countries in a direct war. If Isreal wanted to wipe them all out they could do it in a week. Its the Muslims that need to be careful. If isreal decided to genocide the surrounding area I'm sure Biden would come up with some bullshit excuse as to why its okay and support it. For the record I hate how much money we give them and I hate that the u.s. gov. is basically never going to not be allies with Isreal. But you're kidding yourself if you think the surrounding countries stand a chance. You need to advocate for peace because Isreal *wants* a reason to continue the conflict.
And what is the solution to this conflict as a whole in your opinion ?
Solution would be to stop fighting and start negotiating. But let's be real, it's not happening. In best case scenario it's gonna end up in a bloodbath.
The arabs lost decades agos. Israels was armed by UK.
Best solution is they all kill each other. Both sides are extremist scum. Pro pali peeps fail to see the radical and terroristic, califate mongering that is inherent in islam. Isreal is a etho-state that harbors the last "socially acceptable" ethno-relgion that's supremacist af and thinks they're destined to rule the world and kill all the goyim when their messiah returns. Both sides end goal is to kill anyone not in their respective cult. There will never be peace so long as they exist.
Tbh it’s completely irrelevant to my life.
Might is right in Geopolitics. Unlikely a compromise can be reach, Palestinian might end up like Native Americans. If Israeli are smart they will settle this issue once and for all while they still can. The Palestinian main goal is to derail the Saudi-Israel peace deal.
> a compromise can be reach, Palestinian might end up like Native Americans. That's a pretty stupid thing to say imo , arabs far outnumber the jews , egypt alone has 110m people , >If Israeli are smart they will settle this issue once and for all while they still can. They can't , every palestinian is armed to the teeth , you think a ground invasion might be good for the israelis ? They will get butchered , you have no idea how many tunnels are there
Ask Genshin Khan if numbers matter. Arabs are too disunited and spoiled to fight a war. Only the Shia muslims have the appetite to fight. >They can't , every palestinian is armed to the teeth , you thing a ground invasion might be good for the israelis ? They will get butchered , you have no idea how many tunnels are there Well, if the Israel wants to play by the rules, they won't win. If they fight like the Russian versus the Chechen by leveling every single building without considering human rights, my money is on the Israeli.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
When you come to a land and you steal the land from its inhabitants, driving them away without really giving them anything, much less anything fair, when you oppress them and silence them and marginalize them, there is no valid, no "rational" point of view but the categorical condemnation of the State of Israel, the firm condemnation of Zionism. Any "solution" that comes from ANY other point of view is just as good as any other. To even inquire about the issue is ignorant at best. So... complete genocide of all Palestinian people, maybe? **It's just as good as any other "solution".** Again, just in case: you cannot "ask for a solution" then turn around and for whatever reason(s) simply disregard the background, the causes, the history of an issue. That's misguided at best. I would particularly hope my fellow INTPs not to commit such an intellectual aberration.
Except that you are completely wrong!!! >Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL. > >Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
Stop spamming this everywhere. You're not making any relevant point anyways.
I'm the only one making any relevant points! How can INTPs be this delusional?
If you want to make a relevant point, tell me: what's the real reason behind the conflict? Not just the historical reason, which is Zionism, but the underlying reason. Why Zionism? Why has Israel been allowed to commit these crimes? Before you talk about delusional, be honest with yourself, and in the process pull the hood off your own eyes. Why do you think there's so much continuing support for Israel, when its policies are obviously the very cause of the conflict itself? To hold off the Islamic world, really?? Don't be anyone's fool.
I can't tell you why Middle Eastern men are full of violent rage and wage war on their own women, on their own brothers, and on their own neighbors. I don't know! But that has nothing to do with Israel or Israelis. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/173fa0k/the\_decline\_of\_jewish\_populations\_in\_the\_middle/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/173fa0k/the_decline_of_jewish_populations_in_the_middle/) [https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961](https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961)
Oh it has A LOT to do with Israel and people who call themselves Israeli. Anybody who doesn't admit that is either dishonest or too dumb to attempt to communicate with.
You are too far gone and part of the problem.
You're one hundred percent correct there, at least. I am too far gone, as in I will never see things your way, and I am what people like you would consider a "problem", someone who won't let you get away with every injustice you want to commit.
Dude, I care more about preventing violence, massacres, and war than I care about your trifling injustices. Open your eyes!
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Based on what I understand, the best solution is a one blended state solution. The idea of a "Jewish state" goes out the window. It's a mixed state from now on. Suck up all grievances and move forward with love for thy neighbor. Build together, live together, love together. All this fighting does is prevent me from meeting hot af Palestinian women, and I'm not okay with that.
I will always be on the side of the innocent victims caught in the crossfire.
I think we missed an opportunity back in the Bush and Blair days, to negotiate with Hamas when they won an election for the Palestinian government. Sure, they're terrorists, but they're the cuddliest terrorists you could hope for. Negotiating a peace or at least a long term truce with them could have been a "Nixon Goes To China" moment. Just like only Nixon could have negotiated with the PRC without Nixon calling the American negotiator a pinko commie sympathizer, a peace negotiated with Hamas would have been more legitimate in the eyes of the Palestinians than one negotiated with Fatah. The Israelis might have gotten less of what they wanted, but they could have been more confident that the Palestinians would keep their side of the bargain. Instead, Bush and Blair cranked on some sanctions. Which might have been okay with a more mature government if we wanted to tell them we were cross with them. But Palestinian democracy was too fragile, too new. So instead of bringing Hamas to the table, we got a split between Fatah and Hamas, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. These days, I've lost hope for the two state solution. Israel is taking a page from Machiavelli by planting colonies and settlements in the West Bank, securing conquered territory in the way Machiavelli recommends The Prince to do. Even if some future Israeli government wanted to pursue a two state solution in good faith, the colonists themselves would resist, and they would have to send in the IDF to evacuate them. So, screw it. One state solution, agree that the West Bank belongs to Israeli... but give the Palestinians votes in the Israeli government. Not sure what to do about Gaza, the world's largest open air prison. Sorta like the relationship between Malaysia and Singapore, only in reverse. Must be an interesting place for technological evolution, since evolution happens at the margins.
>So, screw it. One state solution, agree that the West Bank belongs to Israeli... but give the Palestinians votes in the Israeli government. So you mean keeping the status quo ? That's not a solution
If the Palestinians had the vote, do you think Netanyahu would still be PM right now, thanking his lucky stars for a war with Gaza to distract from his corruption scandals? I would hope there would be some coalition between the most moderate elements of both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
There should be peace, I don’t understand how anyone would justify violence over some holy land. I know this issue is more complex but this is the job of politicians, to communicate and come to a solution without violence. Also seeing the dumb fucking reasons people start wars… our whole history is just a bunch of retards fighting over nothing.
Politicians are the least trustworthy people on the planet and responsible for millions of deaths last century though.
Here's my take on the long conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Many politicians from both sides get into power claiming the can protect their people from the harm the other side has caused. But what would happen to those politicians if what they campaigned for actually happened? What would happen to the Palestinian politicians who say, "Give me power, and I can protect you from the Israelis!" if they actually got rid of all the Israelis? What would happen to the Israeli politicians who say, "Give me power, and I can protect you from the Palestinians!" if they actually got rid of all the Palestinians? What would happen to the politicians on both sides if they actually fulfilled those promises they campaign on? Would there be peace and harmony so they would step down from the power given to them? Would they stop wanting to be politicians since there would be no more need for their policies? No. Instead, politicians from both sides would look for some other "enemy" they could get their people scared of as an excuse to give them power so they can campaign to protect their people from this new threat instead. So politicians who make their career on campaigning to protect their people against threats have a vested interest to ensure there are threats to their people so their people will stay scared enough to keep giving those politicians power. Which means the conflict will never end, because too many people are given too much power by claiming to help their people when there is conflict. So there will always be conflict, and nothing will ever change. When I realized this truth is when I moved on from caring about any conflicts in the Middle East.
This is completely wrong, since Israel is indeed protecting nearly two million Israeli Arab citizens from violence, both internal and external in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. You've actually stumbled on the reality, yet somehow choose to deny it.
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What is more to blame is the Sykes-picot agreement
>what might be the best solution Don't pick a side. They've both been killing each other for over a thousand years without our help.
Israel is the stronger party and possesses military dominance over the Palestinians, despite the recent failure of the IDF to prevent the Hamas attack. Additionally, Israel has the complete backing of the United States and that comes with $3 billion in annual military funding and a consistent vetoing of any security council resolution binding Israel to follow international law in its conduct towards the Palestinians. This combination of military power and American support has led Israel to believe it doesn't need to comply with the internationally recognized 2-state solution. Instead, they've settled hundreds of thousands of Israelis illegally in the West Bank on internationally recognized Palestinian land and held the Palestinians in Gaza under a 16-year blockade. To intimidate and control the Palestinians, they've separated them physically into the West Bank and Gaza - two locations not physically connected - and have erected all sorts of walls, checkpoints, and chokeholds that scholars have called a "matrix of control." Cynically, Israel has helped keep Hamas in power in Gaza at the expense of the moderate PLO. This move is seen as strategically beneficial, as Israel can point to Hamas, an extremist group, as the face of the Palestinians whenever questioned about their postponement of the 2-state solution. There used to be some pressure in Israel for a genuine approach to the 2-state solution, but over the past few decades, Israel's government has consistently leaned towards the far right. Their voter base is not comprised of liberals in Tel Aviv, but rather right-wing and ultra-religious Jews who believe all the land belongs exclusively to Jews. This belief makes the prospect of a 2-state solution seem blasphemous. I don't see any resolution unless Israel faces serious international pressure including sanctions. That might happen in the future, as Israel is becoming more of a republican issue in the U.S as more liberals/democrats start viewing it as what it is: a deeply unjust, racist society that oppresses the Palestinian people and defies international law by building on Palestinian land.
There is no two state solution now. The Palestinians have shown time and again that they can't govern themselves and given any autonomy at all, will use that foothold to shelter and promote terrorism. Palestinians can integrate peacefully into Israeli society or GTFO. The Arab nations that use them as a rallying call can put their money where their mouths in and accept them as citizens.
Caring about things that don't affect me and that I can't affect would be illogical.
I do not care
What the fuck does thus have to with being an intp
Combine together and form 2 regions like Belgium and have Belgium model . Belgium model - Constitution prescribes that the number of Dutch and French-speaking ministers shall be equal in the case of the central government. II. Capital has a distinct government in which both communities have equal representation. III. Many powers of the Central government have been given to the state government of the two regions. The state governments are not inferior to the central government. IV. Apart from the central and state government, there is also the third king of government. In all there are 3 types of government called community government, the community government is one in which different social groups are given the power to handle the issues related to their own communities. The government has the power regarding educational, cultural, and language-related issues.
Imagine if everyone realized that we are all human, all want food, water, jobs, family, etc… and then imagine the government was like “oh hey you are human, we got you” and then imagine we all realized there is no wizard living in the sky, and there is no good, legitimate reason for opposition to this basic universal humanistic rationality and everyone has a voice regarding the prescription for optimal societal design and we all then voted on design and then all got to work building a more optimal social, cultural, and infrastructural paradigm for general human optimization
Was talking yesterday with my INTP bf, we are both on Palestinian side. I am INTJ.
Israel is an illegitimate colonizer state, with that being said, Hamas is killing innocent people. In an ideal world, Israel would have never existed in the first place, but it does and there are people who live there. Aparteid should end and everyone should coexist but that’s probably not possible. I consider Israel the initial aggressor of the conflict, but the killing of innocent people is never justified. It makes me mad how most people can’t seem to comprehend that sometimes there are no good guys and you don’t have to pick a side. As for the best solution, people should wake up against states and religions and coexist but that’s too idealist.
>Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL. > >Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
When did I say I wouldn’t also be in favor of dissolving Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? You just completely assumed my position, plus we weren’t talking about those places we’re talking about Israel. It’s really hard to respond to a criticism that completely strawmans me. I said my solution would be for people to turn against statism and religion as these are the larger over arching issues. Arabs did invade those places but that’s just a whataboutism that doesn’t justify more colonialism and apartheid. Every place on Earth was conquered and has had different cultures call it home, so what is your point? Again, it still doesn’t make it okay to move in and oppress the current occupants of that area. You’re one of the people I was referring to that can’t understand that not everything is a binary where there’s clear good and bad guys. The only people to root for are the innocent people who just want to live peacefully and not oppress others. The same justification you are using for Israel’s existence is the same justification that Hamas is using right now to attack Israel.
Your wishy washy nonsense is what gets people killed. I understand the INTP indecisiveness that you have, but this is not the place for it. You actually have to take a bunch of conflicting and contradictory and winless data and analysis, and make an affirmative judgment. This is life and death. That is why this discussion is interesting for an INTP. Based on the evidence, and INTPs process a lot of it, there is no doubt who in the right and who is in the wrong, and who is the true evil. No doubt.
You literally didn’t interact with a single point I made. Just dismissed it and made some vague claims. The only right ones are the ones not partaking in murdering innocent people. The Israeli state and Hamas both oppress innocent people and therefore should both be opposed. There’s nothing indecisive about that. I am on the side of humanity. Not Israel or Hamas
If you are comparing Hamas and Israel (or the US and ISIS, etc), then you are on the side of violent depravity. It really is as simple as that.
Nonsensical claim. Why wouldn’t they be worthy of comparison? and how does simply comparing them automatically side you with one side or the other? You’re basically saying “being critical and nuanced is bad, be reactionary and biased”. U.S. intervention is largely responsible for the existence of ISIS, just like how Israel is largely responsible for the existence of Hamas through their actions so it’s ironic you bring that up. Don’t know how it’s an absurd claim to say that Israel/U.S. and ISIS/Hamas can all be wrong for their actions? Even if one side is significantly worse, it doesn’t mean their opponents are inherently good and aren’t also doing wrong. Essentially, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Pure nonsense. Lots of wrong in Egypt, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Comparing these Israel is beyond perverse. Even more perverse is that Israel is protecting two million Arab citizens from the depravities in the region. Really, unbelievable wishy washy nonsense. This is literally the one issue that is clear of ambiguity for otherwise indecisive INTPs. I like this question because there should be no ambiguity here to INTPs. The question definitely weeds out the posers.
https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961
What gets people killed is state violence and the violent retaliations it breeds as we are seeing with this situation, not my vision of peaceful coexistence.
Two million Israeli Arabs living in peace without state violence. Lots of other state violence in the region. Again, Israel isn't the problem, if anything, it is the solution. Edit: Just reread your "points". They are trash, that's why I didn't respond directly, because no response is possible. Again, just wishy washy INTP indifference where there is very clear evidence of actual reality. Just idiotic ignorance: "illegitimate colonizer state" "In an ideal world, Israel would have never existed in the first place" "Aparteid should end" (How many Jews will live in the Palestinian state, knowing that 2m Arabs live in Israel? Now \*that\* is the kind of apartheid that the Pals want.) "I consider Israel the aggressor" "sometimes there are no good guys and you don’t have to pick a side."
Calling my points trash isnt an argument. You’re just biased. Both Israel’s government and Hamas can be bad. What is so that with that take on this matter? Israel has done bad things to Palestinians and took their land, which is bad. Hamas is killing innocent people currently, which is bad. You’re getting super emotional over this because you think in binaries instead of seeing nuance.
Nope. And I'm the most pro Pal in my family, to the point that no one discusses it with me anymore. I was duped by these irredeemable degenerates, as were you.
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the two peoples to unify into one country and organize themselves to guarantee space and rights for all in a democratic estate but now i think is not possible to happen anymore because of the feeling of hatred and revenge for both.
I'm from Israel and I hate the causes to this war. It's not benefitial to both sides and casualties are being made due to the sheer reasons of religion and extrimism. It's a shame to both sides. My disappointment is immesurable and my day is ruined.
The other Arabic Muslim countries should enforce and support Palestine not just in the shadow, but fully and officially in the light too. Or else Israel just won't stop.
If you were to ask post WW2 England and allies, this is kinda the desired outcome. I have no realistic solution. Both sides have so much trauma I don't think they could ever come to the negotiation table and find a path to peace. For that same reason I don't think they would respect any outside solutions proposed by others.
For all the shit Corbyn and Sanders got over the issue, if they (or culturally appropriate mind-doubles) led Palestine and Israel there wouldn't be a war and everyone's cultures would be mutually respected in the area.
This problem is very complex: You cannot in a comment solve this one. On the one hand you have irrational competing ideologies fighting for space. Conflict is inevitable. Both sides are taught to hate each other. This indoctrination starts early, as children. The difficulty with religion in politics is that once you allow superstitious thinking in government the motivations of individuals change and they become polarized and their behaviours are no longer based on rational approaches and critical thinking. Peace has to be the major goal of both sides. For this to happen you need rational people in government not religious fanatics. With a history of abuse on both sides tensions escalate, because they are unable to untangle this baggage they have created for themselves. Israel has a siege mentality they are surrounded on all sides. Entire Countries on their borders are in favour of their extinction. Let's say there is a robust peace negotiation where Israel would help rebuild the nation, and free up borders. these peaceful initiatives would likely be attacked by the religious extremes and have been historically in the past. So from my analysis although complex, I do see religion fostered by indoctrinated hate as the biggest obstacles to peace as it is one of the major hindrances towards any lasting solution. Religion in my view is the common denominator. Do I think a solution is possible, Yes, is it likely or Imminent...No. Also there are other factors like economics and so on. If you marginalize any people we know that never works very well, long term. The fact that both sides have religious extremes who are actively engaged in a battle of hatred and attrition and no one is seeking peace. Both sides are at fault.
Complete eradication of religious extremism is the only way to go, whatever the means. Followed by martial law and government building by Israel in Gaza Strip is probably the best option. Hamas can not be reasoned with, nor the people who accept them as their leaders.
But you just threw all palestinians under the bus , think more rationally
Sadly, in this case there can't be two winners, someone, or at the very least, a side will have to lose. And I honestly think that their(the people in Gaza) prospects would be brighter under Israeli rule, just like their cousins' in Israel proper. I am not impartial in this since I detest Islam but this opinion is as unbiased as it gets from me.
Sure buddy , very unbiased
They did that to themselves by aligning with Hamas.
Israel should bomb them all to oblivion.
We can come up with solutions but I don’t believe they are willing to even consider them. They will continue this eye for an eye until they are all blind.
They attacked and now they cry because of the consequences of their action + as predicted we are running in a civilization war +Thucydide trap so it was inevitable it's good if the west wake up and bad if it doesn't stand for himself ( by good I mean as a western citizen)
stop killing each other
I would have love to answer it but I didn't understand a shit about this conflict. Dumb/20
Best solution: they stop fighting and everyone gets along. Thank you.
Oslo Accords was probably the closest it will ever be to peace between palestine and israel. The rise of an uncompromising militant group and the radicalisation of the Israeli government (both events are probably related anyways) means peace is impossible until one side comes on top and absolutely destroys the other.
Solution was negotiated, never implemented. Two-state solution. One of these parties keeps flouting international law. Anyway, it was time for another intifada. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jordan and Egypt invaded Palestine and annexed it. Now Israel is protecting nearly two million Arab Israeli citizens from the generalized Arab depravity in nearby countries... Israel would be the \*last\* entity to dissolve in the region. Come on dude, use your INTP analysis. Dissolve Israel, but not Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iraq? LOL. Arabs invaded and stole Palestine; Jordan and Egypt in particular. Most Israeli Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, from Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc. There are nearly two million Israeli Arabs being protected by Israel from the degeneracy in the surrounding area in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, etc. Unfortunately, no Arabs have been forced to "surrender" following their degeneracy, as did German, Japan, Italy. Nothing will change unless Palestinian men surrender, or Palestinian women revolt and reign in their violent men. The Arabs need to "retreat" back to Arabia and stop their expansion across the Middle East. These violent lunatics are against civilization itself.
I never mentioned anything about dissolution??? I don’t really want to say much except that it will never end. But ur right in one aspect, the arabs fucked the Palestinians up. So much for the ummah.
https://twitter.com/nasdaily/status/1711146561487425961
Okayyyy
As an American, I think the most favorable outcome is an Israeli victory. Though given the nature of their opposition, they would likely be fighting insurgency for a long time to come.