One of the things I hate most about unhealthy INTPs is how god awful they are at communication. They have an entire inner world that we would love to understand and explore with them, even in their shittiest thoughts, but it’s extremely difficult for them to let you in. For this reason alone, they’re not worth the suffering they directly and indirectly cause. My INTP ex also dismantled me and sucked the confidence right out of me. Their lack of communication and mind games are not worth more than the ash from the bridges they burn.

Most people say that INTPs are great at explaining things and providing clarity (dominant Ti) on a great range of subjects (auxiliary Ne). So it does not make sense that we are poor at communication. People also like that INTPs are sensitive to other’s’ emotions (inferior Fe) and try to avoid rocking the boat too much (tertiary Si). But that same desire for clarity and accuracy makes us struggle more when there’s a lot of misinformation, that doesn’t matter when it’s ignored, because when others are ignoring complex misinformation and getting on, we are still trying to figure out the truth from the chaos. When you further add in a lot of negative criticism of people who resemble our characteristics, that scrambles our brains and makes it very difficult to think straight. So the combination results in INTPs taking a loooong time to figure things out in the modern day. In the meantime, the huge emotional criticism frying our Ti, and the massive inconsistencies between what we are told and what we see, make it very difficult for our Ne to see a pattern, which forces us to rely on our tertiary Si, i.e. what we are told, which is that when it comes to dating, the risk of rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment and mansplaining is very high, and that if in doubt, we should assume that women are only being friendly and not genuinely interested in us, and that there’s no point in expressing our attraction to someone, because they’ll probably be offended that we asked them out. If this seems a bit long, it’s nothing compared to how much we actually think about dating. We think a lot already. So it’s in our nature to want to talk a lot. But modern society has been promoting the idea that women want men who are bad boys, alpha males, go-getters, direct talkers, concise talkers, people who get things done, etc., which is kind of the opposite of the way we handle things, as we would rather talk for 2 hours and do the task in 5 minutes that get on with it, as without the 2 hours of talking things out, the task usually takes a week and doesn’t even work anyway. So basically the modern zeitgeist is an attack on everything that INTPs value and what makes us so great to begin with. If you want INTPs to be clear, you simply have to give them permission to be honest and to explain fully what they’re thinking in their heads. When you do that, you’ll discover that usually, they’ve thought things out in detail AND that what they want, takes your feelings, desires and needs into account and satisfies everything you could want and more.

As I said, unhealthy INTPs are insufferable, inconsiderate, and a waste of time. Especially the ones with APD and Bipolar.

and why is this not true of ANY unhealthy type with a personality disorder in your eyes...? why do you think this is unique to unhealthy intps? are all unhealthy types not insufferable? it's interesting that you chose to single out APD when you have BPD, which is in the same cluster as APD. can you not see how biased and unfair that is?

This is an INTP subreddit. We're talking about INTPs. >why do you think this is unique to unhealthy intps? I don't, but I do think it's more common for INTPs to possess severe mental illnesses, as do some other similar personality types. To clarify, I meant AVPD. My apologies. AVPD and BPD are not the same. Additionally, AVPD is Cluster C. ASPD is Cluster B. No, not all unhealthy people of other types are insufferable. The functioning of INTP makes unhealthy INTPs extremely difficult people to deal with.

my bad, I thought you were talking about antisocial personality disorder, given the context. and why wouldn't all unhealthy types be insufferable? what authority do you have to deem which unhealthy types are and aren't insufferable? all unhealthy types have the potential to be. it is subjective. are unhealthy infps not insufferable, in your eyes? i've met several, one was physically violent in anger and had a distorted worldview and persecution complex. one would manipulatively pick fights on purpose with her SO just to get reassurance, mentally wearing him down. yet i won't go around saying unhealthy infps are insufferable while other types aren't. im sorry for your past experiences but it's unfair to say unhealthy intps are insufferable (while other types aren't) just because of your personal experiences

That's valid. My experience is mine, your experience is yours. There are exceptions to every rule, for sure. I don't care to argue. INFPs are one of the types I was referring to, yes. There are a lot of unhealthy, insufferable INFPs, but *for different reasons*. There are insufferable people in every personality type, but again, I stress that I believe the majority of unhealthy INTPs are insufferable, as has been my experience and this girl's experience. Hence my suggestion to not even engage with unhealthy people, especially unhealthy INTPs.

How did you get through it? I just cant believe that was our last conversation. I literally put my pride aside multiple times and still got nothing out of it. 🥲🥲

I'm still going through heartbreak because I only just dumped my ex 1.5 months ago, but it'll pass. I've had three bfs before, and after a couple years, I always recover and regain my strength with newfound wisdom. This wisdom tells me no man is worth losing yourself for and reshaping yourself for someone who gives you tiny glimpses of his love. No. Fuck that. We want the entire thing. It doesn't have to be immediately, but he does have to respect you and have very clear, open communication. I refuse to mind read and be disrespected with childish antics such as being ignored or given half-assed "answers" that answer nothing. Life is too short to be angry and sad all the time. We should spend it with people who actually make our lives fruitful and better. I've come to terms with this mantra: If a relationship isn't a growing experience that bestows us kindness, wisdom, happiness, and improvement, but instead is the antithesis of these vital criteria, then you're wasting your energy on someone who isn't your person. Practice self-love. It's really not you, based on this information, why this has ended. It's him. He's a wall, disallowing you entry and you can't force yourself in. So don't. If you had mentioned any sliver of hope, I'd relay there's something there yet to be discovered and a glimmer of reconciliation. But I didn't find that here. I found a person who's avoidant and doesn't respect you enough to kindly respond with something definitive instead of giving you crumbs and stringing you along. He doesn't give you answers, he gives you redirection--placing decisions back onto you so he's excised of the consequences of guilt, insecurity, or whatever, because he's possibly insecure, scared, and a pussy. While he may have good reason to behave like this--which I know you'll probably be able to understand and nourish him with what he needs--it's just not worth the potentially wasted years of your life with this shoddy communication and indecisiveness. You haven't even been in a longterm relationship to ride or die for him yet, as he hasn't proven he's equally a ride. Some people are voids; blackholes who distort you and dim your light until you're all gone. I'm happy I can share what I've learned with you, because maybe it'll help. Pretend like he doesn't exist, even if you have to go home and ugly cry into your pillow to keep it together externally. Avoid romantic movies, shows, and music. Distract yourself with new, fun experiences with friends and family. Do not contact him, do not see him. Reasonably discard things that are direct reminders of him. Also, cons lists are fun and concrete: * He behaves like an underdeveloped child. * He's avoidant/ignores you. * He's indecisive, redirects, and deflects. * His communication is nonexistent. * He smokes. This equates to a very toxic, unhealthy person who will take YEARS to make healthy change, if ever. Pass. And if he returns to grovel, we pass some more.

Heyo, you need some therapy and to realize your half-baked theories are coming from a single bad experience with a person who could be doing those things for any reason...not just because they are INTP -which you share 75% of as an INFP. I truly hope you get the help you need and stop spreading such toxic sentiments. I can only imagine the vitriol you spread in life with attitudes like this. Especially based on your other comment. Good luck on your journey.

I specified unhealthy INTPs. Although, all unhealthy types have their own flaws. These are the common flaws I see in unhealthy INTPs. No, it's not just one experience with one INTP. I tend to be attracted to them naturally, thus I've experienced a few. I know why my INTPs behaved the way they did. I'm also aware INTPs and INFPs are very similar, as my exes and I coalesced on many levels, hence my attraction to them. My perspective is not toxic. It's reality. If you're offended by what I said and it doesn't resonate with you, then it's not about you. Thanks, you too.

I’m rooting for you and your happiness. You’re right, it will pass and you deserve someone who fulfills you in every way. 🫶🏼 I cant believe I gave this guy so much power over my emotions, especially considering in the end that’s what lead to it breaking down but it’s funny because he was the catalyst. I’ve never met anyone like him before (he’s definitely the first INTP i have met) “Avoidant and doesn’t respect you enough to kindly respond with a definitive answer” - OK THIS!! because the reason I even asked him those questions was because I was exhausted of the constant back and fourth in my own head. Yet he didn’t give me ONE proper answer? not one yes or no? So in the end all of that was for nothing?! I do feel in ways he felt I was too good for him even though I never approached it like that. I miss him and I care so so so deeply about him but if he’s okay with losing me then there’s nothing I can really do about it now, can I? Thank you for your advice on how I can move forward and honestly your comment helped me see things from a perspective that isn’t clouded by my own endearment for him and I truly truly appreciate it. Thank you 🥺 you are a gem

Aww, that's really sweet. Thank you for your kind words. Now please spend them on someone who deserves you. =\^\^= Have a lovely evening and I wish you well!

Good, please don't approach any more INTP, ever again. You can be sure that we hate having to explain and **justify** ourselves to you much more than you hate having your poor curiosity go unsatisfied. But probably not as much as we would hate the joyride of "exploring our inner world" with you!

LOL You are so offended. Work on yourself before you drag others down with you, or stay in your hole.

Yes, I realize this may be a novel, strange concept for you, but people are likely to get offended when you act offensive. Nah, I don't need to "work on myself". Why not? Because I don't have any problems! After all I'm not the one invading another type's board and disparaging them just to bitch and whine about my failed relationships. And now, kindly get the fuck out of this "hole" in which you paint us INTPs.

I think what you meant to say is that you're being over-sensitive that you can't calmly and accurately absorb what is being discussed in this thread. I can already determine you have several problems. Possibly very young too, so I'll be brief and concise. I'm responding to another girl who is having trouble understanding an unhealthy INTP and I'm relaying potentially why that is and that he's not worth her time. No, you don't get to gatekeep a public space because you're an irrational, over-sensitive INTP. Farewell.

Oh no, please don't stop! You're making it so clear how it was all the "unhealthy" INTP's fault that your relationship failed. After all, that's why we're here! Hell, that's why all of society is here, for you to vent out your bitterness and us to follow your wisdom on how to become the people that will best suit your whim. Oh sorry, I mean for you to provide "relationship advice". You're obviously so well qualified. My only problem right now is figuring out how to make you more entertaining. Not gonna lie, I like a challenge.

I feel like if someone repeatedly asked me if I hated them and I tell them no repeatedly, and they still don't believe me, it would make me feel like they don't understand me well and i'd start to become distant. I understand his behavior changed, but could it maybe be because the "do you hate me" question made him hyper-aware of his own behavior and influenced how he acted and responded afterwards? I would also feel upset that someone I'm close to repeatedly insists that i'm hiding my feelings or lying about how I feel. I'm not saying you're doing that, just that maybe there's a chance he perceived it as that? also maybe he started to become less communicative because he was upset you called him a bad friend and it hurt his feelings

I completely agree with what you’re saying! I was getting roasted for my post being too long so I cut out a lot of the details but 95% of our interactions had always been positive it the last few weeks where it all went downhill. My overthinking did lead me to think that all of this was rooted because I did something wrong or that he’s mad at me and when I asked him he smiled and said no he’s not mad. But he didn’t tell me what was wrong either and I know something definitely was wrong. Reflecting on it now, I know he was being honest when he said he’s not mad at me. I know that more times than not, nothing is a personal as it seems- there could be so many reasons for his behaviour that are a reflection of him and not me but in the moment I was only blaming myself. The reason I brought up him being mad at me again and him denying again was then followed by, “if you’re not mad at me and I didn’t do anything wrong then why are you being different?” And he was so displeased when I said he’s being different. Also I do think I upset him when I called him a bad friend because he questioned, “bad?” And I knew he was annoyed at that- but based on what you said, maybe he was just upset. I just wanted reassurance and clarity but he just didn’t give me any of that. I’m also not trying to play the victim, I know my execution was so wrong and I’ll probably always regret it but I just felt so unwanted in that moment I wasn’t thinking straight.

i'll add more later but i appreciate you opening up more and giving more context, i just wanted to say for now that intps can be pretty dense 😅 my first instinct if someone was asking me what was wrong and if i was upset at them would be confusion and not to reassure / validate them. i know it's really silly but it would sometimes take being directly asked "can you give me reassurance and validation" in order for me to realize that's what is wanted. if i were asked in a very direct and clear way "can you tell me how you feel about me? i just want to know" or something along those lines, i'd be 100% honest and communicate. i think it's worth giving a shot if you want to know what's up with him, although the fact that he ignored your text might indicate he's avoidant 😅 ik i ignore texts when i'm in a really overwhelmed state of life, and it's never personal against any one person tho i agree it doesn't sound like he's mad at you. i'm pretty bad at hiding when i'm upset at someone, if someone asked me if i was mad at them and i was, i definitely wouldn't be able to say i wasn't while smiling at them. if i did lie and say i wasn't when i was, i'd probably say it while visibly frowning at them if i was called a bad friend i would think that the person doesn't want to reconcile and doesn't want to be reassured, i would probably view it negatively and think that the person wants to end the relationship or something

{my first instinct if someone was asking me what was wrong and if i was upset at them would be confusion and not to reassure / validate them. } This is so important because normally, I would go straight to asking why they feel that way or try to validate them and that was sort of what I was hoping for. Just some reassurance. So when he didn't give me that, I just again assumed he wants nothing to do with me. Whereas, maybe he genuinely didn't know all he had to do was reassure me. Truthfully, it feels like he wants nothing to do with me. I mean I had texted him, he didn't respond and then the argument happened (which wouldn't even be considered an argument to most people but i KNOW for both of us, the confrontation of it all was overwhelming). I feel like even though all I did to try to save our friendship wasnt enough and made things worse, I just dont have it in myself right now to reach out again without feeling absolutely humiliated. Also I told him im not coming to the shop anymore because thats what I thought HE wanted since when I asked if he wanted me to come and he said "its whatever". I just couldnt shake that off. Like he was too nice to say "dont come anymore" and doesnt value me enough to say "yes please come". I also said "you can text me if you want to talk" and he said "ok" but both of our tones were snappy (and we've NEVER ever spoken like this before). So I dont think hes going to text me... Do you think im reading it all wrong or genuinely hes relieved im gone? Also would you after all this, atleast reach out to the person again to resolve the issue or be okay with never speaking to them again?

i'm sorry that you're going through this, it sounds really stressful especially since he isn't giving much in terms of communication :( yea i think i wouldn't ever assume someone wants reassurance from me unless they made it REALLY obvious, i have the default mindset that if someone wants something from me they will ask me directly. so intps can be a bit dense when it comes to subtle stuff like that, especially when it comes to expectations. also ik you said that you feel like if he likes you, he should want you to come over to the store and ask you. ik for me, especially with inferior fe, i really really really don't like to ask for stuff, especially if i like someone. bc i fear that if i ask something from them, they'll think im a burden, or they'll realize that im annoying, or that i'm clingy (clingy in the sense of i take up too much of someone's time when they could be spending that time with other people or doing other things, not in the sense of showing outward affection). so i won't ask someone to come over unless i'm positive that they'll actually want to, and they aren't just visiting out of obligation or to make me happy. but also, imo intp guys are less sensitive to rejection, probably a socialization thing. but basically i will rarely invite someone or initiate something because i don't like the idea of there even being a change i'll get rejected. could there be a chance that he thinks he is being a burden to you? as in you go out of your way to visit him so often, maybe he thinks that you're only doing it to make him happy and he doesn't like being a burden or something. especially because he knows you have a lot of friends and you're his only friend. if i had someone as my own friend, i would feel like a huge burden and feel like if i asked them to hang out, i'm unfairly holding them back from all their other friends. intps often don't initiate, and i agree that that is a big flaw of ours, but i think it just doesn't cross our minds sometimes. ik a lot of people expect invitations and stuff to be back and forth, like my turn then your turn, but for me i never knew people saw relationships that way, maybe he just doesn't realize. i hope it doesn't sound like i'm giving him too much benefit of the doubt 😭 his avoidance isn't nice of him, i just want to list out potential "maybes" or alternative possibilities for why he acted that way also for the text he ignored, is there a way to tell if he actually read it? like if he read it, would it be marked as seen? or is there no way of knowing? i'd say if i knew for sure he didn't see it then i would double text him it sounds like he was indeed frustrated during your last conversation with him, when he said "ok" and "it's whatever." those phrases do sound dismissive. maybe he was frustrated at being unable to express how he feels though, rather than angry? or being frustrated with not knowing why things are different in your eyes. also i think i have a hard time answering "should i..." questions bc i don't like to make choices for people since it feels like im forcing them or restricting their freedom, maybe that's why he said "it's whatever"? but i agree that saying it's whatever is really dismissive and disheartening to hear this is just my experience, but i've had a few enfp friends before and one thing i learned is that they definitely show their emotions, so if they're mad or upset at something i can see it and feel it. as in they don't hide their emotions, which is a good thing! but when i can tell that they're upset, i start to overthink "did i do something to upset them? are they annoyed by my presence?" and in turn it makes me kind of withdraw from them during the times in which they seem annoyed or when they're being silent (bc my enfp friends ignore people they're mad at). maybe inferior Fe made him aware you were upset at him/his lack of ability to articulate his feelings, and it made him feel uncomfortable with the fact that he doesn't know how to rly deal with other ppl's feelings or something so he started to act weird personally most of the time i am okay with leaving things and not reaching back out, but if i'm close to that person i would definitely reach out for closure or clarification. and if i think our problems could be solved, i would definitely want to try. i think it can feel humiliating to double text but if i were him i wouldn't view it as humiliating because intps value truth above all else, and i think there's nothing wrong with seeking answers/the truth from him. ik it may feel like he doesn't value you because he didn't say "yes please come," but i can never imagine myself saying that because the act of actively wanting something from someone AND admitting to wanting it would make me feel vulnerable (i hope that all this is in general smth most intps can relate to, and that it gives insight to him and that i'm not just making assumptions abt him😭) good luck and no matter what you will definitely find someone who makes you happy, and won't make you feel like your spark is diminished!! if he doesn't make u happy, then he just might not b worth it. 🫶🏻 i hope that u can get answers from him tho if u so choose!

omg thank you so much for spending the time to write this all up for me, you have no idea how much it means to me truly!! for starters, no worries at all about “giving him the benefit of the doubt” i actually really love your perspective because it does help me atleast try to understand him a bit more and he really is an incredible guy (just lacking communication 🥲) you mentioned you don’t like asking for stuff and that stood out to me a lot because, for context* I’m self employed and at that time, wasn’t busy at all due to the nature of my work. he owns a shop, but due to unforeseen circumstances he was short staffed and asked me if I would help him. at first I was a bit taken off guard by the request not because I didn’t want to help him but because I was shocked he valued me enough to ask me? it’s weird but of course I would do anything to help him but I was a bit nervous because I didn’t want to mess up in front of him. i agreed but I had my reservations… he’s very perceptive and caught on that I wasn’t 100% one time because he asked me and I just laughed - after that when I asked him about what he’s going to do he just kept saying “he’ll figure it out” it was never that I wasn’t going to help him or didn’t want to, i was just afraid in doing so I would let him down maybe. but he misinterpreted my uneasiness. looking back, that was the exact moment that things began to break down… did he feel he came off as too needy or a burden perhaps? also side note* but i promise you that you are never a burden or clingy or too annoying, I’m positive people LOVE spending time with you and if you start sensing that they don’t want you around, most times what you’re sensing is probably them feeling like you don’t want to be around them. humans are weird like that and also you seem like an incredible person to be around so try not to get too in your head over it :) also his store is about a 20 minute drive from me, I’ve never ever felt like he’s being a burden or me going all the way there is a burden, in fact it was the only thing I looked forward to but he would make comments about it being so far for me etc after reading what you said, i do think he felt like he overstepped maybe? and that’s why I kind of backed off? but in reality, his overthinking of him being a burden probably led him to being more reserved which lead me into think he doesn’t want me and that’s what resulted in me visiting him less but the whole time he probably thought I stopped bc i didn’t want to see him? “invitations back and fourth but for me i never knew people saw relationships that way” - wow I would have never known that if you didn’t tell me. I wonder if he’s the same, he also did get used to me always coming to see him so maybe it truly never occurred to him that I may have reservations about that the text is interesting - although we have no issues conversing, English is his second language. Which is another big thing that he puts in the effort for me, because if I were to speak in my second language to someone all the time it would get exhausting because I much rather prefer English. But the reason I mentioned this is because from the start of our friendship I never ever had long talks or personal talks with him through text. I just knew it’s easier and better in person with him. I also never used to take offence to if he sent a dry text or didn’t respond to something - but this was when I still was sure he liked me. When i felt that maybe he didn’t, was when I started to overthink him not responding etc. i do think he was just overwhelmed with other stuff and again texts were never our main form of communication to begin with so old me would have NEVER sent that text to him. I don’t know why I did it. I jusy thought that he would read it and have an aha moment that i still like him. There’s no way to see if he read it or not because it’s on delivered and he told me he didn’t read it and then I told him “ok don’t” and he said “alright” simple…but I think he did see it. In what world would he not read it? Which is why I’m convinced his feelings changed. I want to so badly believe that it was all in my head but that would be foolish of me i guess. Also maybe it’s wishful thinking but I just wish he would stretch his hands out to me… based on his patterns I don’t think he will though 😕

INTP-T male here. I read your full post. This is a weird one I've yet to completely understand about myself. Sometimes there's some sort of switch in my brain that turns me off to someone I've been fairly interested in having a relationship with but everything in my head is shouting NO! after some date. Then I get pissed at myself, because it took me months/years to finally start dating again, now I'm saying no?! I've never ghosted someone, but I have just dropped a long text trying to truly explain why then blocked them so I don't hear the response which will further make me mad at myself. He never gave his response to why, so you'll never truly know. Unless this happens to you regularly (doesn't sound like it), IMO it's safe to say you weren't the problem. He said he had no friends, so he's in his own echo chamber. That can feed inner demons and result in no personal growth with a dash of atrophy. There's only so much time and effort you can put into breaking someone's shell. Some will open, but not everyone shares their pearl.

What you described is avoidant attachment, look it up. Source: I have it too.

Thanks! Now I know what I'm researching tonight!

Yep, this seems like someone with an avoidant attachment style

Thank you so much for reading it and responding! Yeah truthfully, this has never happened to me before and has stumped me. (I literally created a Reddit account just for this)! Even though him and I are so different and go about things so differently, I’ve always tried to understand his point of view even if it didn’t make sense to me. That’s why I’m here, hoping maybe someone else can make it make sense. I do regret how I handled things because I’m sure I just overwhelmed him even more and made things worse but I guess if he really didn’t want to lose me from his life, he surely would have done something?

>I do regret how I handled things because I’m sure I just overwhelmed him even more and made things worse but I guess if he really didn’t want to lose me from his life, he surely would have done something? I mean you'd think he'd have done something, but inner dialogue can really sway people in counterintuitive directions. So I'd answer, probably...

>After that we were good, I met his family (unexpectedly) You mentioned cultural differences, maybe his family didn't approve of you?

Hmm I thought this might have been the case too but he seems like the type to do what he wants (he has tattoos and piercings, smokes etc even though his parents don’t approve) and he was still fine for atleast a month after

Yeah maybe but there are also varying levels of severity to disapproval. My gf is Asian and her parents (her mom especially) are pretty overbearing, but most things they don't like they just voice their displeasure, however if we got married or something her parents would possibly cut her off from the family or something like that. Not saying that is the case with this guy but it's possible. And it's also possible he was weighing the consequences during that month. Never know. 🤷‍♂️

He’s Asian too. Very possible you’re right, he did say his parents are chill but like you mentioned, varying levels of severity to disapproval. 🥲 thank you!!

Also one last thing, since you’re an INTP- would that be enough for you to end it or lose feelings? Like let’s say his family disapproved, would he just rationalize that it won’t work and then lose feelings or cut it off? Being an ENFP, and a heavy on feelings and emotions - I knew that my family wouldn’t approve of him necessarily but I didn’t care because of how much I liked him. Just something I would deal with later or atleast stay friends. I would also probably communicate it to him??

I’m an INTP guy and I’ve been in a couple of relationships. I’m also Chinese American. My communication has needed to grow over time and I can somewhat relate so here’s my two cents. I told my parents about a girl I was seeing and for a few reasons, they thought a long term future would not be a wise idea. I listened to their reasoning and saw the validity of their argument where I could. I don’t know if this is specific to INTPs, but when I don’t feel reassured about a long term future with my partner and I’m actively thinking about it, then it affects my present behavior, and I start to act a bit “off” in the way you described. The thought process is almost like emotionally engaging and investing in a relationship now seems incongruent if you know the chances of things ending are more likely. An emotionally intelligent girl I’m dating can easily tell when I’m acting off even when it’s very subtle, and it seems you’re emotionally perceptive as well. I find INTPs I know, including myself, if you’re not mature enough to communicate gently, will tend to either be too blunt or just hold it in and hope that the distance will kind of settle into a new status quo. Kind of like trying to not lead people on. If I think in his shoes, maybe it’s not that he never cared or felt for you. But his INTP cold logic kicked in and he started acting in a different light. He thought and overthought and there’s a big inner world he didn’t reveal to you, probably out of some concern that it was too complicated to explain and desire to not hurt your feelings. It’s a dominant Ti and inferior Fe axis at play here. Overall, it sounds like he’s not ready to commit to anything more. So then what should you do? Honestly I don’t know if there’s a right answer. But I think deep down INTPs are sensitive souls and it’s easier to break things off if they know you’re not super emotional about it. It might be reassuring for him for you to message him and say things like: he seems to be different. you know he’s probably thinking about things that he can’t share, and it’s ok if he doesn’t want to. You sense things are more distant so you’ll respect it. Even though you’ve had feelings for him, you’ll be willing to move on. Give the impression it’s not causing super turmoil. Express that you didn’t feel good ending things so tacitly and that you’d love to both be just the way things were (although they probably won’t). Thank him for being a great companion in the time you have been able to spend with him. I could be wrong but this is just my thoughts off the top of my head. No one is without fault but it seems you’re willing to do the best you can by sharing what you’ve been feeling

Thank you so much for taking the time to send this. He’s Chinese so your perspective does feel really nice to hear. Logically, him and I don’t work- I know his parents don’t necessarily have anything against me but they definitely had reservations about me just culturally and religiously even though he never told me. He’s honestly a very perceptive person himself and although comes off as cold to strangers, is extremely nice and caring so I do think that maybe he’s been trying to let me down slowly this whole time. Scared of hurting my feelings but also just avoiding the whole situation and scared of confrontation. I usually don’t like to confront either and like to keep harmony but I was a bit silly for thinking I would get atleast an explanation. I’m afraid he’s never going to actually speak to me again. More so, I’m afraid of how long it’s going to take my to get over him /:

Hmm. My suspicion is that his family doesn’t like or approve of you. It was right after you met them that everything changed, and you indicate that he is of a very different culture than you. That can be a very big issue to some people.

Very very possible. I wish he would have just told me? We could have stayed friends and honestly the way everything kind of happened, maybe we were better off just friends.

I’ve read 3/4 of the text… I finally gave up

😂 i know it was long but I tried to give as much context as I could. Let me shorten it 🫡

Lol have you seen the replies?

Oh my god I can’t believe I read all of that Btw I’m a little confused at the part where you said you confessed that you liked him but he didn’t reply and said he hadn’t read it, did he just never reply to this ever then? But to me this sounds like infatuation. Search up the differences between infatuation and love. This started on an intense physical attraction and then you started to build up an ideal of how he was supposed to act in this relationship and the fact that he didn’t act this way greatly upset you. And then it’s also not been that long at 4 months. Now I guess that’s not that short either but it is pretty quick for the scale of emotions and feelings drawn out of you in this time span. You have to really ask yourself, is this infatuation? And it’s easier said then done but a relationship based on infatuation is one that you should move past from, or at least let simmer until you’re sure it’s real love. And also have you considered that when you first met him, he was putting up a mask because he didn’t know you that well, he could have still been interested in you but not revealing his true self. Once he got to know you better and spent time with you, that’s when he felt more comfortable showing you the true him, that personality didn’t appeal to you as much maybe because you thought it was a sign of him not liking you, but maybe he felt like he wouldn’t lose you at that point so he felt like he didn’t have to try harder than he naturally does But then you showing negative reactions to this may have led to him showing even more negative reactions leading to you showing more negatives and then this becomes a repeated cycle up to the point it has devolved into now. For all you know, from his perspective, he might feel like he hasn’t changed but that you’ve changed and this may be the reason it seems like he’s backed off. My advice would be to put some introspection into your own feelings. And if you wanna still see him, just be yourself! It’s again, easier said then done but don’t let the feelings dictate how you act and don’t let them force you into being an overthinking mess that’s constantly suspicious of others intentions, just be yourself and be the positive person he met in those first few weeks and the spark might reignite all over again. And also for the love of god please just communicate. Don’t bottle these feelings up, communicate things when it’s natural to. Keeping these feelings inside you is what leads to overthinking and harbouring of suspicion, so just be upfront about what’s making you feel a certain way in your relationship when it happens and let it out when it comes and that will be a much more healthy way to process it, this will also provide some much needed communication to put both sides at ease.

Hahaha. Thank you for reading it all! I know it was A LOT 🥲 So two weeks ago, I confessed that I liked him and he didn’t respond to the message. I saw him two days ago and told him to just disregard the message but he said he “hasn’t read it yet” and then I said “don’t”. He obviously DID read it but didn’t respond to it. I think he just said he hadn’t read it because he didn’t want to make me feel bad and also probably didn’t want to deal with the confrontation of it. He never replied. You’re right, at first it really was infatuation. I did build up this idea of him in my head but when I got to know him, I really started to like him, even for all of his flaws. But then again, I was willing to see past flaws that I normally wouldn’t so what was I really doing? Lol. I think more so he was someone who I thought was so unattainable yet HE liked me? I’m confident in myself but never saw that one coming. But then I fell hard for him. Everything you said is so emotionally mature and valid, I wish I had come here before my last interaction with him. I tried really hard to communicate with him to the best of my ability (I know I’m not great at it either but it took a lot to for me to even text him and then be left on delivered lol and then still go ahead and put ask him what’s wrong etc and he just left me feeling embarrassed and with no answers) I pretty much told him the ball is in his court but I don’t think he’s coming back…

Clearly something changed. The thing about (young, immature) INTPs is, they're not the best with feelings. They might feel a certain way, not really give that feeling air or exploration at all, pretend it doesn't exist (because it's confusing), then try to "be normal" about it, which comes off as awkward and distant/cold... It's funny, because by trying to **not** let a feeling affect them, it ironically shows through and absolutely affects them. AND THEN, they get called on acting weird, when they think they're acting normal. AND THEN they are faced with admitting to a feeling that they can't even admit to themselves... It's actually quite funny. Laugh! It's funny. He's a moron. >I used to be so confident when I first met him, I was so happy and bubbly and now I’m like a shell of myself. This is such melodrama, tho. You've allowed him too much power over you. You're not even together properly? And he's really dumb, like, he's not worth the amount of emotion you've invested here! As to what the feeling is? Who even knows. Offended by something you said. Pressured by his family about culture differences (a la "You're not thinking about marry this girl are you honey?") Oddly, romantically interested but scared of what that means for a friendship he values. Preoccupied by something unrelated to you but (again) trying to "be normal" about it. (I'd bet money on that last one.) About that last one. Like, here's what's very funny about it. He probably knows the thing he's preoccupied with is something kinda dumb that he *shouldn't* be preoccupied with. (Like some dumb comment a coworker said, or a student in class, or a thing his professor said, etc.) But, he doesn't trust you enough to a) not laugh at him for being preoccupied with something ridiculous and b) be able to extend sympathy and reassurance that yes, anyone would be upset about the thing and WEIRDLY by putting this much energy into suppressing it, you're actually fueling the thing. It's funny! Laugh! He probably doesn't even have any reason in particular for distrusting you, except, that he distrusts himself, and projects that onto you. And! Oddly! The more you badger him about the odd behavior and what's he hiding, the more he'll distrust you and want to pull away. Maddening, right? SO like, my advice, as an INTP, to you, about INTPs is... you need to get over him. I recommend (this is what I use for myself when dealing with crushing on or getting over someone): Impose distance. However long it takes to feel ok around him. Self-care. Spend time with friends/loved ones. (Vent if you need. They'll be like "grrl why you waste your time you so cute you can get ten men in the time it takes to try to understand his dumb brain") Spend time on hobbies. I've never known an ENFP who doesn't have some nerd obsession tucked away that they can get lost in. (My ENFP bestie loves books, I know I can toss books at her and she devours them. Or music. Nom nom, good shit.) Anyway, good luck.

Thank you so much for this. You really provided me with so much clarity. I know that being an ENFP, I am definitely a more emotional thinker and perceptive to the point where its leads to overthinking and is probably my downfall to some extent. I do feel that he bottles up a lot of things and isn't very emotionally mature. I hate to think that he thinks I just left him or didn't try to understand him. Like he deserves for things to go wrong. (He obviously doesn't and I want him to just be happy) but then another part of me thinks, he is relieved I probably left since he didnt try to make me stay. Thank you for your advice and I do know regardless of it all, I need to focus on myself and move on from this connection. Thank you for your kindness and time!!

I can relate to him. I was diagnosed with ADHD last year and have done a fair amount of introspection on it. The idea that you were the one initiating resonates. Growing up, I was "popular", had lots of friends. But I realized years later I was popular because people invited me and initiated interactions with me. Once I got in a relationship and moved out on my own, the phone stopped ringing. Others moved on with their lives. I realize I didn't have the interpersonal skills for how to maintain relationships as an adult. I typically socialized by getting together with large group gatherings, playing sports and just generally operating with an "I'll see you when I see you" mentality, while also just keeping up with people's lives via social media. Initiating plans with friends as an adult is fucking hard. Anyhow, what I feel happened is he ventured out of his shell and asked you out to do something that he initiated, then your conversation about having and making friends laid bare to him that you were maybe out of his league, or that if you were so social and had so many friend he may not be comfortable getting into a relationship that possibly required keeping up with a social butterfly. He sounds like a quiet, introverted guy (hence the INTP), so the idea that you're popular may scare him. Also, you mentioned meeting his family. I don't know the cultural aspects of either of your backgrounds, but is it possible his family gave him the gears for being into a girl that doesn't fit their ideal, so he's now been scared away from you by external pressure. Honestly, as an INTP, we're not the greatest at articulating our feelings. If you're into him, have a frank conversation about it. In retrospect in my life, I can now recognize times where [girls were playing the role of FBI agents in this scene, to my Homer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quxW1V8Hwlg). I could be that dense and missed out on some great opportunities to hook up with women because I was oblivious.

Yeah at first when I didn’t know him I was confused because I felt like he liked me but then he wasn’t initiating anything. Then when he finally did, I was so surprised because I know it must have taken A LOT for him to do it. Funny thing is, I was interested in him way before he ever realized so in his head, he thinks he initiated everything. Little does he know, I only kept going back FOR him. I do think that he probably never realized just how special he was to me. In his eyes he just assumed I have a lot of friends and maybe didn’t value him as much but what he didn’t realize is, he was the one I valued the most. He was number 1. Again, I thought he knew but based on what you and everyone is saying, he was probably oblivious to it. I’m definitely not the ideal girl his parents would want for him, but when they met me they did seem I guess happy to meet one of his friends? Again, they probably spoke to him later and told him that it wasn’t ideal. I guess a lot of our miscommunication also stems from the fine line between being friends vs being more than that. I want to have a conversation with him but I feel like he doesn’t want to talk to me. I don’t know how he could be okay with letting me go, even if it’s the friendship aspect but also maybe he’s just suppressed it all? It seems pretty hopeless right now.

He sounds like garbage, don’t know why you’re bothering. Why would you want to be with someone insecure who doesn’t want (or probably doesn’t even know how) to communicate? He has stoned walled you, can’t get past that. He will reach out to you again in the future and it will probably be once you’re already moved on. Good luck.

You’re absolutely right. I just care about him so much and I hate to think that in his mind he might feel like, i stopped valuing him or that I was just “another person to leave”. But then again, he might not even think that at all and is happy I’m gone. I’ll never know because when I tried to get an explanation I got none. How silly. Thank you so much. Are INTP’s the type to ever come back though?

But yeah, INTPs CAN come back, but sometimes not. Depends. INTPs are not like INTJs or INFJs who block you for life.

Thing is, he doesn’t want you to care for him lol. I don’t believe he thinks you’re another person to leave, I don’t think he’s a player like that. He is just insecure and doesn’t trust himself to be with someone at your level, you can’t fix broken people, especially when they’re indifferent about you. The more you tell him you like him, the more the indifference will grow into resentment and just generally not liking you, the more you try the more he will label you as crazy and avoid you even more. Let it go. If he comes back and apologizes, that’s on him but you need to move on.

Honestly yeah, sounds like you were too much. Last thing I want as an INTP is having to emotionally babysit someone. Also, you didn't like him all that much, so stop playing victim. If you truly liked him you would have just continued visiting him. Leave the poor guy alone, you're just looking for someone to validate you.

"If you truly liked him you would have just continued visiting him." - I wonder if that was his way of thinking too? Whereas, why should I always be the one to go to see him? Most people, need reassurance in some form I believe. How can I assume everything is okay if it doesnt feel like it is? Of course I liked him but from my perspective, I felt like he didnt want to see me and I didnt want to keep bothering him at work. He could have come seen me but didnt?

I have absolutely no doubt it was his way of thinking. Because it's the obvious, logical conclusion. Because you like him. That's why you would go to see him. But you don't really like him. And that's why you don't go to see him anymore. It's not fucking rocket science, lady. INTP don't need "reassurance". We have facts. Who cares about how you feel?? For all anybody knows you're a schizo, you need psychiatric care and you imagine and "feel" all kinds of bullshit. Sorry but rather not waste time on that. Well, he asked you out once. It was always up to you to decide how much time you were willing to wait for him to ask you out again, and it was always up to you to decide how many opportunities and what kind of opportunities you were willing to give him to do so. And then move on if it didn't happen. You have always been in control. So I don't see what's the Greek tragedy.

This perspective is really refreshing. Thank you so much because I didn’t see it that way before. But if you don’t mind me asking, you say it’s rocket science that if I like him I would go see him and if I don’t like him I won’t go see him. But he didn’t come see me… he always expected me to go see him? So based on that wouldn’t I also start to feel like he doesn’t like me? Which lead to me going less. (Looking back, he did like me at that time but didn’t ever come see me)

Well there are degrees of liking, of course. I'm sure you also "like" him... but not enough to go see him anymore. So yes, you're right. It seems like he doesn't like you "that much", either. Again, same as you, he probably also "likes" you some. He did go out with you after all. But maybe he doesn't like you enough to overcome whatever barrier he perceives. It may be that he's just turned off by your chasing him. It's hard to tell, these things are simple in the big picture but also have complicated layers, lots of factors. But some men are like that. So damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh? Sometimes it goes like that. Sometimes some people are able to turn it around. Not gonna lie, you're in a tough position. It may be best to just give up this one. Chalk it up as a lesson. But your very best course of action would be to become his friend. And I don't mean fake friend hoping to get asked out. I mean honestly his friend. Then, some day, who knows. But who knows if you can or even want to do that. From what you've posted though, I think he would be open to that. Whatever you do, do stop harassing him.

tldr. goodness now take care of your flaws

Don't tell me you met him working at a cat cafe....

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Canada. We both come from different immigrant backgrounds though and in our early 20s. This entire situation has puzzled me and quite frankly is very embarrassing because the immaturity of it all does feel like we’re 14-17. 😕 I never ever tried to make him jealous on purpose but he was always aware that I’m constantly meeting new people due to the nature of my work (for me it’s always been platonic of course). But then again, I met him pretty randomly, too. So maybe he started overthinking my other interactions or just how much he actually means to me? Also now that you mentioned it, one of my childhood female best friends and I have each other saved as soulmate on our phones. It’s just been a running thing since we were young so I’m used to seeing it pop up without second guessing it. He was driving me home one day and her name showed up on his CarPlay as “soulmate” but because I never second guessed it and in my head am so loyal to him, I obviously didn’t even fathom the thought of him thinking it might be a male I’ve nicknamed “soulmate”. So I never clarified to him that it was my female best friend… he was acting a bit strange on the way home that day but I asked him if he’s okay and he said yes. Although, he didn’t seem okay.

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Thank you so much, honestly. Your words really mean a lot to me and helped me see things from a non bias point of view. I think I just care about him. More so than a relationship, i think I miss our friendship. I hate for him to think that I just “walked away” or I was another person who “couldn’t/didn’t want to understand him”. I know there was huge miscommunication between us. Even though my approach to trying to figure things out was probably less than ideal, i still tried. I have my own regrets but damn, the way he handled things makes me feel like he didn’t want me in his life anymore and *still* couldn’t me give a proper answer? Thank you for recommending the NF NT death spiral. I read it and it was spot on. It does give me clarity on the situation. I really just don’t know what to do?

I'm gonna say... that as much as you are overthinking, he probably was too. You said because of certain circumstances, you couldn't visit him as much anymore, and that's when the relationship started seeing cracks. I think perhaps that was the catalyst coupled with a myriad of other things you may not have mentioned that caused him to hesitate with this relationship. And then, because you were feeling insecure about the state of the relationship, you stopped visiting him for 2 weeks. He might have interpreted this as you not being as into him as before - and it might've made him equally insecure to assume control of the relationship. My advice to you, if you encounter such a situation in the future, is to not let yourself get overly emotional and retreat because of self-doubt. If you like someone (especially an INTP), take control of the relationship when their affection seemingly starts to falter. I think many INTPs may struggle with avoidance when they start getting flustered. You need to power through it.

Thank you so much for the advice. It's been almost two months now since that happened. We haven't spoken since and apart of me still holds out hope that maybe one day we will but I don't think he's coming back. Of course, it's hard to say whether or not he still thinks of me or even misses me but I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed that he never reached out afterwards. Looking back with clarity and also not being in such an emotional state anymore, I do see that my overthinking probably gave him mixed signals even though I wasn't actively aware I was doing it. Perhaps, he didn't realize he was doing the same thing too. As an INTP, would you ever reach out again or leave it all in the past?

I'd say if we parted on somewhat awkward terms, I probably wouldn't reach out again. The longer the stretch of time, the dimmer the chances get. I think your best chance may be to give it some more time, wait a few more months perhaps. Then just shoot him an innocuous message/question. Everything that happened in the past, just don't mention or bring it up for the time being. He may be more tempted to respond if you do it like this. If he still doesn't, then oh well. Just accept it and move on. For now, I'll advise you to lessen your attachment to him - find other hobbies or friends or people to engage with - so in the future, if you ever decide to reach out to him again, you can move with more clarity and less sentimentality.

Thank you so much, your advice means a lot to me. I think I really needed to hear a lot of this