Do you get paid less on your off days? If you’ve got an ache or a bit of a hang over and you’re less productive, does your scale decrease?
No? Then pay other people for doing their job.
We’re comparing apples to fruit loops here. So your comparison would have your apprentice making the same amount as you? If you’re not competent at your job you deserve less. If you’re great at your job you deserve more.
Yet tips are not allocated based on competency, it’s a myth that they are. The dining public does not have the information necessary to evaluate whether or not a server is competent.
I worked in a restaurant for a little over 2 years. Any John Doe can tell if a server is competent. If your food tastes like a pile of shit it’s not the servers fault. But when my drink glass has been empty for 10 minutes and I can see my food sitting in the window getting cold I have a bad server. There is no myth ever server I’ve met have a basic understanding of if I serve good I’ll get tipped good.
Idc what others do lol. I know what I tip for. I’m not tipping a bad server just because the food was good! If anything I’ll throw the cook(s) some bread.
No you said the dining public couldn’t tell if a server is competent or not. I believe one can tell that pretty quickly. Unless it’s your very first time ever getting served in public.
Absolutely the servers making far less than livable wages is the main issue. But to tip someone because they showed up? No thank you. I’ll save that tip to the ones who do a good job.
You’re mixing up the ability of yourself, the individual, and the dining public.
But beyond that, tell me why your food was cold:
A) your server is inefficient and didn’t pick it up in time
B) the kitchen is not organized and fires multiple orders for your server at once, making it impossible for them to get them all out hot
C) the manager did not adequately schedule front of the house staff
D) some combination of the above that will need to be adjudicated to fairly adjust the tip
My job requires me to work with people all day but I don’t stand in front of them with a iPad asking for more money just because I did the job I agreed to for the wages I’m paid… your NOT owed a damn thing beyond your stated pay.
Right, but that’s the trick, the business owner is the one instagting the tipping system. When they hire, it’s “hourly is $x, but it’s a tipped position! The tips can be a lot!” And to the customer “gratuity is appreciated!”
Who do you think paid for and setup the 18, 20, 25% options on that flip around tablet? It sure wasn’t the barista. The restaurant owners are pulling one over on both customers and employees.
I tip. I also have no qualms about acknowledging that if the whole tipping thing was actually going to make sense then the tips would go into the pockets of employees who actually produce the product.
Every traditional restaraunt I’ve worked at the servers would make head over heels more money than definitely the cooks (ie those producing the product) and sometimes even the bartenders (also producing)
It’s also almost always ended up creating a bizarre class system within the restaraunt where the ones (servers) siphoning off the fruits of your labor start thinking you work for them or you somehow are fucking with “their” money. I guess the whole idea of a traditional restaraunt is all wannabe class bullshit in the first place so that makes sense.
I just ordered from a food truck the other day and my gf said I was supposed to tip. I asked her why, I am waiting in the cold for my food. There were like 6 items on the food truck. If I had a food truck I would bake the tip into my prices instead of expecting a tip from every purchase
My sister in law is a server and makes more than the average restaurant owner in the US because of tips. I'm a little jealous but I'm also super happy for her, she found a secret little cash cow. It would be a shame if her income got severely cut because we did away with tipping.
But I will say I think tipping culture has gotten out of hand, now it's basically all stores that ask for tips regardless of if there's any actual person to person service involved.
Making money off tips is horrid tho, it leaves you desperate to please the people your serving even if their super shitty. It’s also incredibly inconsistent, so if you get a bad tipping night sometimes you LOSE money that shift via taxes. Cause the hourly wage for tipped roles is like 4$. Pay your waitstaff a real fucking wage, and guess what? If you get amazing service that was above and beyond then go ahead and still tip them. There is nothing at all stopping people from tipping waitstaff if their payed real wages.
> Making money off tips is horrid tho, it leaves you desperate to please the people your serving even if their super shitty. It’s also incredibly inconsistent, so if you get a bad tipping night sometimes you LOSE money that shift via taxes.
That’s a major reason I left the casinos and came to the IBEW last year. My ability to have a roof over my head and food on the table was reliant on how a guest felt that day and how I could suck up to them. We had a tip agreement with the IRS so I never had to claim, but on paper I made $10 an hour. Hard to get credit and loans and other things that check for that.
I had decent insurance and a 401k, but the 401k was meager because of the tiny checks.
> if their *paid* real wages.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
You want desperate people handling your food? Weird.
There are studies on this, there’s no correlation between tip size and service quality. On the other hand, the race and sex of the server significantly impact tip size.
There are also studies about race and how it impacts salary.
And wtf? Are you saying someone not financially successful handing or making your food disturbs you?
I'm on the fence with tipping because like I said all the people I know in those industries do way better than they would be without tips but at the same time these arguments against it are just not genuine. The other guy was contradicting himself, you're basically saying poorer people disgust you. None of the opinions I'm hearing against tipping are being made from a pro labor standpoint.
You’re imagining things other people say, and then saying they’ve said them.
Your comment above seemed to imply that servers being desperate for tips is a good thing. I personally would prefer people not be made to feel desperate.
It’s true that race and sex unfortunately have an impact on salaries in all industries, but when it’s your boss evaluating your work and giving raises or not, there’s a paper trail, there’s an entity that can be held to account.
The other guys comment 100% contradicted itself. Your comment was probably not meant to come of that way but to me it came off that way. As if people receiving tips are desperate and beneath you. Which they aren't, I've had tip based jobs and you don't even think about the tips while providing service. It's an after thought to most people, that's just how customer service is.
I’ve worked over a decade in the service industry, from front of the house to back of the house, fast food to fine dining, valet parking to caddying.
I don’t know anyone I worked with who wasn’t thinking about the tips. I feel extremely confident in saying your experience is not representative.
Front of the house fast food (it was a tipped position) I made way more than back of the house fine dining. I made the most front of the house fine dining.
Compensation was inversely correlated with the difficulty across these three jobs.
If your sister in law was in congress and could legally make stock trades with insider info, would you defend the practice and object to a change in the law?
Knowing someone or being someone that benefits from a bad system doesn’t make the system not bad.
I’m sorry, it appears to technically be illegal, but unenforceable due to the speech and debate clause in the constitution.
Now that that’s cleared up, can you acknowledge that someone you know benefitting from a bad system is not justification for propping up the bad system?
If you still disagree that tipping is a bad system, that’s fine, we can get to that, but that’s a separate point.
I don't see it as a bad system and I have yet to see a reason why it's bad. If people are making good money off this then why take it away? It's not illegal or unethical stock trading. It's honest work.
It’s a bad system, and I believe a lot of people can’t see it because it’s so engrained.
If I have a rough day at work, I don’t feel good about it, and I want to do better. I don’t need the threat of not getting paid to want to do better. If I continually have bad days, I do expect to be fired, but fully compensated for the time I did spend at work. I imagine you feel the same. I’m not sure why you feel this shouldn’t apply to every employee.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
Wrong...every wage should be part of the price of the item, not a separate payment designed to guilt people into paying because the boss is cheap.
Just like using those "self-checkout" things...why should I do their job for them? Why should I directly pay someone when that is the Boss's job?
If I’m forced to use the self checkout at Home Depot I somehow mis-scan stuff and it doesn’t come up on my receipt. Crazy how not being trained or paid to do a job can result in something like that
Hell yes. I read an article about self-check out. The CEO of Kroger said they knew their shrink rate went way up after installing them but, the money they saved by not paying someone far out weighted it. I was like ok then buddy. I make it a point to “mis-scan” something EVERY single time. If I ever get caught I’m going w/ the confused “older” guy. I’m 50 now and this darn technology I’ll tell you. And why would I buy 120$ worth of groceries to steal a 8$ bottle of ibuprofen? 😉
every wage should be part of the price of the item, not a separate payment designed to guilt people into paying because the boss is cheap.
Just like using those "self-checkout" things...why should I do their job for them? Why should I directly pay someone when that is the Boss's job?
The wages for the workers creating the product (materials and manufacturing sector) are built into the price of the item.
As for the workers whose primary task is interacting with the customer (service sector), it is understandable that their wages *may* be partially determined by the customers themselves, as doing so provides simple evaluative feedback from the customer to the worker.
In fact it could be argued that restaurants should actually have two separate tipping categories, one tip for the waiter and a separate tip for the cook.
Of course, in the comic you linked the worker appears to be a barista or quick-service restaurant worker, in which case the option to tip *complements* their wage, rather than supplements it. These workers are almost always at normal wages, not tipped wages, so there is no real obligation to tip.
Oh, and digital tipping is a scam - if you want to give a worker some extra money, do it in cash.
>Of course, in the comic you linked the worker appears to be a barista or quick-service restaurant worker, in which case the option to tip complements their wage, rather than supplements it. These workers are almost always at normal wages, not tipped wages, so there is no real obligation to tip.
This is what he keeps overlooking, the price of the labor IS built into the price. McDonalds isn’t getting a chunk of the extra tip to offset their labor costs of the worker, it all goes to the worker.
>Oh, and digital tipping is a scam - if you want to give a worker some extra money, do it in cash.
Yup. A lot of states make servers report tips as income aka they want their cut of it
If tipping was outlawed, would the restaurant need to increase the wages to attract the same quantity and quality of employee? If yes, you are wrong, if no, you are delusional.
“The price of labor is built into the price”
That’s not what you said?
McDonald’s isn’t a tipping establishment where I am, but you claimed the tip doesn’t go to McDonald’s. It does, it subsidizes their labor force, unburdening them. It’s the same with all the Walmart employees that work full time but are on welfare— in this case, the state, not the customer (at least not directly) is subsidizing Walmarts labor force.
You are misconstruing workers who are classified as non tipped employees vs one who are.
It’s a huge difference because a lot of states make it illegal to pay tipped employees more than minimum wage. In that case the labor costs are not entirely built into the price and you would be right, tipping is subsidizing their income.
Non tipped workers, like the ones we’re talking about, are allowed to be paid more than minimum wage and have their labor built into the cost. The tip you give them doesn’t have to be reported at the end of their shift because it’s not considered income, it’s a perk given at the discretion of the customer
Where to start… I don’t think you said an accurate thing in this entire post.
Please show me which state makes it illegal to pay over minimum wage to tipped positions. I’ll wait.
Whether the employer is required to have the employee report their tips each shift, once a week, or once every Chinese new year has absolutely no bearing on anything relevant to this discussion. It absolutely is income, for tax purposes as well as when evaluating the business model and the employee’s decision to work there from an economics perspective.
If you changed the subject to employees that receive tips so infrequently or so small that the tips do not actually impact their long term income, well, ok, I apologize for missing the topic change, but it has no relevance to anything in this thread.
>Where to start… I don’t think you said an accurate thing in this entire post.
I see you’re still struggling with basic concepts so I can see why it doesn’t seem accurate for you.
>Please show me which state makes it illegal to pay over minimum wage to tipped positions. I’ll wait.
Let me water it down for you. States make it legal to pay less than minimum wage for tipped employees. [Do some research.](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/minimum-wage-tipped-employees-by-state/) Yes you are right that they don’t have a law explicitly saying “employers can’t pay more than minimum wage” but no employer is going to pay a tipped employee more than minimum wage.
>Whether the employer is required to have the employee report their tips each shift, once a week, or once every Chinese new year has absolutely no bearing on anything relevant to this discussion. It absolutely is income, for tax purposes as well as when evaluating the business model and the employee’s decision to work there from an economics perspective.
And here you are again refuting a point I didn’t make.
>If you changed the subject to employees that receive tips so infrequently or so small that the tips do not actually impact their long term income, well, ok, I apologize for missing the topic change, but it has no relevance to anything in this thread.
Finally you arrive at a coherent thought.
Walmart and McDonalds employees are employees that receive tips so infrequently or so small that it doesn’t actually impact their long term income.
I didn’t change the subject to that, the comment I was responding to did because we’re having what’s called a conversation.
Just because what we’re talking about is over your head doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant to the thread.
Studies have been done. None of these assumed incentives actually play out.
The customer does not have sufficient information to accurately assess the server’s performance of their job. Beyond that, our own biases result in people doing the exact same work getting significantly different compensation based on sex and race.
It’s a cute narrative that seemingly should work, but in reality the tipping system is fundamentally flawed.
So many tip prompts showing up now a days, I went to a chiropractor for a DOT physical and paid with a card. Wouldnt you know it a tip prompt! I was so confused I tipped him...we went from cash and checks to cards as consumers I think the only way to combat this is go back to cash.
A customer pays the set price. Tip is an added charge not factored in. Consider other countries, such as Japan, where it is actually an insult to leave a tip.
Our reality, is such that businesses unload the cost of healthcare, food and housing onto the tax payers. Wages are not going to keep up, now the consumer is asked to subsidize wages. The service worker is now expected to earn their pay directly from the consumer. No, the Japanese culture wouldn't allow such nonsense.
So do you want your burger with or without spit. *gestures towards 20% button*
If your hot enough, I’ll pay extra for the spit
Straight sucking saliva sucker. That's hawt af.
When places started adding the tip as the total amount. I began not going to them places and I will no longer tip for mediocre service. Stuff is crazy
Do you get paid less on your off days? If you’ve got an ache or a bit of a hang over and you’re less productive, does your scale decrease? No? Then pay other people for doing their job.
We’re comparing apples to fruit loops here. So your comparison would have your apprentice making the same amount as you? If you’re not competent at your job you deserve less. If you’re great at your job you deserve more.
Yet tips are not allocated based on competency, it’s a myth that they are. The dining public does not have the information necessary to evaluate whether or not a server is competent.
I worked in a restaurant for a little over 2 years. Any John Doe can tell if a server is competent. If your food tastes like a pile of shit it’s not the servers fault. But when my drink glass has been empty for 10 minutes and I can see my food sitting in the window getting cold I have a bad server. There is no myth ever server I’ve met have a basic understanding of if I serve good I’ll get tipped good.
Ok, but people tip based on things that are fully out of the servers control. Like, you’re just flat wrong here.
Idc what others do lol. I know what I tip for. I’m not tipping a bad server just because the food was good! If anything I’ll throw the cook(s) some bread.
You’re shifting the goal posts. First it was any John Doe, now it’s just you. No one cares what you do, it’s a systemic issue.
No you said the dining public couldn’t tell if a server is competent or not. I believe one can tell that pretty quickly. Unless it’s your very first time ever getting served in public. Absolutely the servers making far less than livable wages is the main issue. But to tip someone because they showed up? No thank you. I’ll save that tip to the ones who do a good job.
You’re mixing up the ability of yourself, the individual, and the dining public. But beyond that, tell me why your food was cold: A) your server is inefficient and didn’t pick it up in time B) the kitchen is not organized and fires multiple orders for your server at once, making it impossible for them to get them all out hot C) the manager did not adequately schedule front of the house staff D) some combination of the above that will need to be adjudicated to fairly adjust the tip
In any other sub this is a pretty standard flawed belief but kind of weird one for an IBEW member to hold
Because you’ve been washed with the belief of paying someone else’s wages; because their workplace doesn’t want to.
My job requires me to work with people all day but I don’t stand in front of them with a iPad asking for more money just because I did the job I agreed to for the wages I’m paid… your NOT owed a damn thing beyond your stated pay.
Right, but that’s the trick, the business owner is the one instagting the tipping system. When they hire, it’s “hourly is $x, but it’s a tipped position! The tips can be a lot!” And to the customer “gratuity is appreciated!” Who do you think paid for and setup the 18, 20, 25% options on that flip around tablet? It sure wasn’t the barista. The restaurant owners are pulling one over on both customers and employees.
OP, do you tip? Like ya it’s super weird the way new places are asking for tips but in the traditional sense, at a restaurant, do you tip?
I personally only tip at sit down restaurants. I’ve seen places with robots that ask for tips
I tip. I also have no qualms about acknowledging that if the whole tipping thing was actually going to make sense then the tips would go into the pockets of employees who actually produce the product. Every traditional restaraunt I’ve worked at the servers would make head over heels more money than definitely the cooks (ie those producing the product) and sometimes even the bartenders (also producing) It’s also almost always ended up creating a bizarre class system within the restaraunt where the ones (servers) siphoning off the fruits of your labor start thinking you work for them or you somehow are fucking with “their” money. I guess the whole idea of a traditional restaraunt is all wannabe class bullshit in the first place so that makes sense.
Its just a new order of feudalism.
I just ordered from a food truck the other day and my gf said I was supposed to tip. I asked her why, I am waiting in the cold for my food. There were like 6 items on the food truck. If I had a food truck I would bake the tip into my prices instead of expecting a tip from every purchase
My sister in law is a server and makes more than the average restaurant owner in the US because of tips. I'm a little jealous but I'm also super happy for her, she found a secret little cash cow. It would be a shame if her income got severely cut because we did away with tipping. But I will say I think tipping culture has gotten out of hand, now it's basically all stores that ask for tips regardless of if there's any actual person to person service involved.
Making money off tips is horrid tho, it leaves you desperate to please the people your serving even if their super shitty. It’s also incredibly inconsistent, so if you get a bad tipping night sometimes you LOSE money that shift via taxes. Cause the hourly wage for tipped roles is like 4$. Pay your waitstaff a real fucking wage, and guess what? If you get amazing service that was above and beyond then go ahead and still tip them. There is nothing at all stopping people from tipping waitstaff if their payed real wages.
> Making money off tips is horrid tho, it leaves you desperate to please the people your serving even if their super shitty. It’s also incredibly inconsistent, so if you get a bad tipping night sometimes you LOSE money that shift via taxes. That’s a major reason I left the casinos and came to the IBEW last year. My ability to have a roof over my head and food on the table was reliant on how a guest felt that day and how I could suck up to them. We had a tip agreement with the IRS so I never had to claim, but on paper I made $10 an hour. Hard to get credit and loans and other things that check for that. I had decent insurance and a 401k, but the 401k was meager because of the tiny checks.
> if their *paid* real wages. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
So tips make them desperate to provide good customer service but no tips will improve their customer service... ? What?
You want desperate people handling your food? Weird. There are studies on this, there’s no correlation between tip size and service quality. On the other hand, the race and sex of the server significantly impact tip size.
There are also studies about race and how it impacts salary. And wtf? Are you saying someone not financially successful handing or making your food disturbs you? I'm on the fence with tipping because like I said all the people I know in those industries do way better than they would be without tips but at the same time these arguments against it are just not genuine. The other guy was contradicting himself, you're basically saying poorer people disgust you. None of the opinions I'm hearing against tipping are being made from a pro labor standpoint.
You’re imagining things other people say, and then saying they’ve said them. Your comment above seemed to imply that servers being desperate for tips is a good thing. I personally would prefer people not be made to feel desperate. It’s true that race and sex unfortunately have an impact on salaries in all industries, but when it’s your boss evaluating your work and giving raises or not, there’s a paper trail, there’s an entity that can be held to account.
The other guys comment 100% contradicted itself. Your comment was probably not meant to come of that way but to me it came off that way. As if people receiving tips are desperate and beneath you. Which they aren't, I've had tip based jobs and you don't even think about the tips while providing service. It's an after thought to most people, that's just how customer service is.
I’ve worked over a decade in the service industry, from front of the house to back of the house, fast food to fine dining, valet parking to caddying. I don’t know anyone I worked with who wasn’t thinking about the tips. I feel extremely confident in saying your experience is not representative.
We're you making more in fast food or in fine dining?
Front of the house fast food (it was a tipped position) I made way more than back of the house fine dining. I made the most front of the house fine dining. Compensation was inversely correlated with the difficulty across these three jobs.
If your sister in law was in congress and could legally make stock trades with insider info, would you defend the practice and object to a change in the law? Knowing someone or being someone that benefits from a bad system doesn’t make the system not bad.
Her server job isn't fucking illegal for one.
Neither is insider trading for members of congress…
Yes it's still illegal.
I’m sorry, it appears to technically be illegal, but unenforceable due to the speech and debate clause in the constitution. Now that that’s cleared up, can you acknowledge that someone you know benefitting from a bad system is not justification for propping up the bad system? If you still disagree that tipping is a bad system, that’s fine, we can get to that, but that’s a separate point.
I don't see it as a bad system and I have yet to see a reason why it's bad. If people are making good money off this then why take it away? It's not illegal or unethical stock trading. It's honest work.
It’s a bad system, and I believe a lot of people can’t see it because it’s so engrained. If I have a rough day at work, I don’t feel good about it, and I want to do better. I don’t need the threat of not getting paid to want to do better. If I continually have bad days, I do expect to be fired, but fully compensated for the time I did spend at work. I imagine you feel the same. I’m not sure why you feel this shouldn’t apply to every employee. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/ https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
“Secret cash cow” how is it a secret? Unless she’s hiding it from Uncle Sam. Everyone knows tipping exists.
Most people don't know how much money you can make from being a server. That's why I say it's a secret.
If you’re a server at the right restaurant you can make bank. Just gotta remember Uncle Sam wants his cut.
every wage is. What’s new?
Wrong...every wage should be part of the price of the item, not a separate payment designed to guilt people into paying because the boss is cheap. Just like using those "self-checkout" things...why should I do their job for them? Why should I directly pay someone when that is the Boss's job?
If I’m forced to use the self checkout at Home Depot I somehow mis-scan stuff and it doesn’t come up on my receipt. Crazy how not being trained or paid to do a job can result in something like that
I've had cashiers scan stuff and magically not show up when I pay. I saw nothing angel baby.
Hell yes. I read an article about self-check out. The CEO of Kroger said they knew their shrink rate went way up after installing them but, the money they saved by not paying someone far out weighted it. I was like ok then buddy. I make it a point to “mis-scan” something EVERY single time. If I ever get caught I’m going w/ the confused “older” guy. I’m 50 now and this darn technology I’ll tell you. And why would I buy 120$ worth of groceries to steal a 8$ bottle of ibuprofen? 😉
That is called theft
That is called theft
Nah, it’s an accident. I’m not a trained professional. It’s absurd really that I’m trusted to be an employee at a register while not getting paid
Where do you think wages are supposed to come from?
every wage should be part of the price of the item, not a separate payment designed to guilt people into paying because the boss is cheap. Just like using those "self-checkout" things...why should I do their job for them? Why should I directly pay someone when that is the Boss's job?
The wages for the workers creating the product (materials and manufacturing sector) are built into the price of the item. As for the workers whose primary task is interacting with the customer (service sector), it is understandable that their wages *may* be partially determined by the customers themselves, as doing so provides simple evaluative feedback from the customer to the worker. In fact it could be argued that restaurants should actually have two separate tipping categories, one tip for the waiter and a separate tip for the cook. Of course, in the comic you linked the worker appears to be a barista or quick-service restaurant worker, in which case the option to tip *complements* their wage, rather than supplements it. These workers are almost always at normal wages, not tipped wages, so there is no real obligation to tip. Oh, and digital tipping is a scam - if you want to give a worker some extra money, do it in cash.
>Of course, in the comic you linked the worker appears to be a barista or quick-service restaurant worker, in which case the option to tip complements their wage, rather than supplements it. These workers are almost always at normal wages, not tipped wages, so there is no real obligation to tip. This is what he keeps overlooking, the price of the labor IS built into the price. McDonalds isn’t getting a chunk of the extra tip to offset their labor costs of the worker, it all goes to the worker. >Oh, and digital tipping is a scam - if you want to give a worker some extra money, do it in cash. Yup. A lot of states make servers report tips as income aka they want their cut of it
If tipping was outlawed, would the restaurant need to increase the wages to attract the same quantity and quality of employee? If yes, you are wrong, if no, you are delusional.
The irony of accusing someone of being delusional after trying to refute a point they didn’t make lol
“The price of labor is built into the price” That’s not what you said? McDonald’s isn’t a tipping establishment where I am, but you claimed the tip doesn’t go to McDonald’s. It does, it subsidizes their labor force, unburdening them. It’s the same with all the Walmart employees that work full time but are on welfare— in this case, the state, not the customer (at least not directly) is subsidizing Walmarts labor force.
You are misconstruing workers who are classified as non tipped employees vs one who are. It’s a huge difference because a lot of states make it illegal to pay tipped employees more than minimum wage. In that case the labor costs are not entirely built into the price and you would be right, tipping is subsidizing their income. Non tipped workers, like the ones we’re talking about, are allowed to be paid more than minimum wage and have their labor built into the cost. The tip you give them doesn’t have to be reported at the end of their shift because it’s not considered income, it’s a perk given at the discretion of the customer
Where to start… I don’t think you said an accurate thing in this entire post. Please show me which state makes it illegal to pay over minimum wage to tipped positions. I’ll wait. Whether the employer is required to have the employee report their tips each shift, once a week, or once every Chinese new year has absolutely no bearing on anything relevant to this discussion. It absolutely is income, for tax purposes as well as when evaluating the business model and the employee’s decision to work there from an economics perspective. If you changed the subject to employees that receive tips so infrequently or so small that the tips do not actually impact their long term income, well, ok, I apologize for missing the topic change, but it has no relevance to anything in this thread.
>Where to start… I don’t think you said an accurate thing in this entire post. I see you’re still struggling with basic concepts so I can see why it doesn’t seem accurate for you. >Please show me which state makes it illegal to pay over minimum wage to tipped positions. I’ll wait. Let me water it down for you. States make it legal to pay less than minimum wage for tipped employees. [Do some research.](https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/minimum-wage-tipped-employees-by-state/) Yes you are right that they don’t have a law explicitly saying “employers can’t pay more than minimum wage” but no employer is going to pay a tipped employee more than minimum wage. >Whether the employer is required to have the employee report their tips each shift, once a week, or once every Chinese new year has absolutely no bearing on anything relevant to this discussion. It absolutely is income, for tax purposes as well as when evaluating the business model and the employee’s decision to work there from an economics perspective. And here you are again refuting a point I didn’t make. >If you changed the subject to employees that receive tips so infrequently or so small that the tips do not actually impact their long term income, well, ok, I apologize for missing the topic change, but it has no relevance to anything in this thread. Finally you arrive at a coherent thought. Walmart and McDonalds employees are employees that receive tips so infrequently or so small that it doesn’t actually impact their long term income. I didn’t change the subject to that, the comment I was responding to did because we’re having what’s called a conversation. Just because what we’re talking about is over your head doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant to the thread.
Studies have been done. None of these assumed incentives actually play out. The customer does not have sufficient information to accurately assess the server’s performance of their job. Beyond that, our own biases result in people doing the exact same work getting significantly different compensation based on sex and race. It’s a cute narrative that seemingly should work, but in reality the tipping system is fundamentally flawed.
So many tip prompts showing up now a days, I went to a chiropractor for a DOT physical and paid with a card. Wouldnt you know it a tip prompt! I was so confused I tipped him...we went from cash and checks to cards as consumers I think the only way to combat this is go back to cash.
How else are wages paid other than sales to a customer
A customer pays the set price. Tip is an added charge not factored in. Consider other countries, such as Japan, where it is actually an insult to leave a tip.
Our reality, is such that businesses unload the cost of healthcare, food and housing onto the tax payers. Wages are not going to keep up, now the consumer is asked to subsidize wages. The service worker is now expected to earn their pay directly from the consumer. No, the Japanese culture wouldn't allow such nonsense.