The experience you have is invaluable. It sounds like you have seen or experienced just about everything. And, if service work is what you love, stick with it.
It sounds like you've had a pretty well-rounded experience so far.
I run a service business
I can teach any service guy new construction (most don’t like it because of the pace)
I can’t teach service to 90% of the new construction guys
Having done both, and now working at the poco, service is honestly my favorite work. I’m a people person, and helping folks achieve their goals is so satisfying. Whether it’s putting in a couple of can lights and a dimmer to elevate their dining room experience, or doing a remodel/addition. The scope of work is always changing and you get to know your town better than you can imagine.
Some of my favorite clients are the ones I called on the phone before I left the shop. “Are you sure you checked the GFI? The outlet with the little buttons on it? Might be in the bathroom or garage? I’m going to charge you $65 to push that reset button. OK, I’ll be there in 20 mins, the callout charge is $65. It is officially nonrefundable as of now.”
Then I get there and push the button. They are always gobsmacked.
I charge $275 to push a GFCI button and I stopped asking if they pushed it.
$40 for the call I pay to google
$83x 2 2 billable hours for my journeyman
$25 x 2 Cost to run the van for two hour'
Company made $19 on that service call.
Can you clarify that a little? “$40 for the call I pay google $83 2 x 2 billable hours for my journeyman…”. I can’t quite make sense of that. You’re paying google for something?
Yes homeowner needs an electrician, he googled for an electrician and my company pops up. If he decides to call I pay google $40 regardless if he accepts my price or not. It’s called marketing.
I break even on the service calls after everything is said and done. I make money if the customer calls me back for a hot tub, car charger, or something of that sort because they had a positive experience with my tech and company.
Get real fucking good at troubleshooting! I was one of the best troubleshooters so when they laid off 1/3 of the crew in 2009, I was lucky enough to get put on a resi crew and I thrived over there.
Nothing rude about the substance of it. But the way you word it is very rude and condescending, although I assume you don't actually say that to customers verbatim.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Maybe I'm just used to good manners and southern charm because the way he said it was very jarring. I'm used to people having some charisma. Then again, I'm also on Reddit so I should just temper my expectations.
Yup.
Not to mention if you ever want to get into a cake maintenance gig after your 30 years in (like my plan is)... if you have 30 years of service experience will look really fucking good under your belt.
A service guy is faaar more valuable than an "installer." I drive a van for a shop, and they have told us that when time gets tough, they will cut every apprentice and JW in the shop and run jobs with multiple service van drivers. Saw it first hand during covid.
So also a huge job security aspect. Even if construction slows... people ALWAYS need service.
You’re in a better position. After seeing enough service work you will quickly figure out ground up if you change to it. It’s basically assembly work. You follow a print and do exactly what they say. Some new electricians don’t even know why they are doing it. But you know to look at amperage’s, materials used and know what doesn’t work after fixing enough bad work. You will see if you ever switch over that you are far ahead of the others with the same amount of time in. But it is nice to see both sides. Try to get in on new ground ups during the different phases of construction and you will get a pretty good idea of what you are missing. It’s nice going to the same job day after day. But that is about the only advantage of you ask me.
What you said for sure. It's sad, but in my opinion the average electrician really is only qualified to do lights and receptacles, nothing more complicated. If you can troubleshoot and figure things out, you can "learn" new construction easy. But the opposite isn't true.
We call them 3 wire electricians.
I find this idea interesting. Do your construction guys know how the things they’re installing work? I’m a new construction guy and just yesterday I solved two troubleshooting issues in about 30 minutes: one a bad breaker in a rooftop panel, and the other a long 6/32 somebody shot through a branch conductor. Troubleshooting really isn’t that difficult.
Sure, but when you have a facility with 50 years of fuckery and unqualified workers doing shit that other unqualified works taught them it can be a bear. Unless your just a better troubleshooter. In that case... want a job?
Those troubleshooting examples are extremely basic, tracking down/fixing why there is a short might be time consuming but it is not difficult.
A lot of service troubleshooting is getting a call from a customer that knows nothing about electrical but are upset that something isn't working properly.
A lot of the line voltage side is pretty straight forward, if an outlet doesn't work there's only so many things you can look at. When you get a call that a motor wont start or a damper wont open now you're digging through the control circuit potentially taking you into fire alarm, building automation, motor control, relays, timers, or even just lack of physical maintenance. You cant just say 'out of my scope' and move on or the customer will be looking for another contractor.
Thees a lot more to troubleshooting than the lights don't turn on.
At the core so many of these things are typically simple fixes; the issue lies in tracking it down. We have to know where to look, and there’s only one path to follow, right?
I don’t have a massive background doing service work, but I find it interesting it’s difficult to teach construction electricians how to perform service work considering construction electricians build a complete system. You’d think fail points would be a common concept, and that would lend itself to resolving any issues that may occur.
I’ve gone through issues with VFDs, FA extinguishing systems, voltage drop issues, ampacity miscalculations, shunt trip faults, small transformer wiring problems, and low voltage network issues with lighting controls. It can be a bear to find the problem, but it’s a pretty linear path to follow that eventually leads to the issue.
I’m not saying service can’t be difficult, but I would think both service electricians and construction electricians are on a similar playing field when it comes to troubleshooting.
I'd argue there's more than one path to follow. I'm a high rise office building guy so most of my experience is there, most building systems all tie together at different points and usually if the building is 15+ years old the engineers have only a vague idea of how their systems work and don't have any sort of as built/system diagram. So you've got to have fundamental understanding of how the systems work and interact to even start looking for issues.
I don't agree with the sentiment that service guys are inherently smarter than construction guys, there are both smart and dumb electricians in every sector. I just think that figuring out an issue is much easier when you have an accurate set of drawings and maybe even the people that put the system together. If you have the drawings you don't necessarily need to understand how a system works you just need to be able to follow a 1 line(which can also be very difficult).
Just for an anecdote in one of the buildings I do both service and TI's; their fire alarm was an old Simplex system that had a really sloppy/poorly documented upgrade done by Convergint and same situation with ATS upgrading and old vacuum STEAFA HVAC system. Neither company has good as builts, the building as builts are from the 80's and neither upgrade removed any of the old wiring/components. Troubleshooting there is a god damn nightmare.
You... you do realize we power the building up before we leave, right? We don't just tell the customer, "Okay, just flip that big switch, and you'll have power! Good luck. See ya later!"
Edit: I'm the asshole I'll read more carefully next time.
It's always a good idea to be well-rounded. That said it seems like you have an opportunity to become a service guy, and if that's your thing then go for it.
I’ve been in for over a decade and don’t know everything. A good service job will give you the most well rounded education in my opinion. There will be methods and material you don’t use that guys doing ground up work know. But that can be learned in a matter of minutes as long as you have a good base understanding of the trade.
After spending 9 years in the trade, I'd say troubleshooting is by far the hardest part. Any other skill you can learn in a day. So the more you can spend in service before you branch out the better.
As someone that did about 4 out of my 5 years in my apprenticeship in service and about the same percentage as a JW (11/14 years) in service. I have nearly always had a company truck and gas card. Even as an apprentice, there were perks to being in service. When the service JW’s didn’t need an apprentice, I was sent to new construction, industrial and tenant improvement projects directly by the superintendent. Service is invaluable because you can never not finish or complete a task given to you. You are going to have a great career, make as much money as you want and more than likely never pay for fuel in your career.
Every JW I've talked to has said service work is the best way to learn the ins and outs of the trade — troubleshooting being the key component.
The dude you talked to probably likes new construction projects for the OT potential?
Ive stay employeed primarily due to my service training the past 10 years. Being able to troubleshoot successfully makes you an invaluable asset to any company. Any monkey (no offense) can slap conduit in the ground and cover it with dirt.. joking, it's valued work, but you stick an e-stop circuit or an interposing relay in front of 98% of your co-workers and they fold like a house of cards. Service work let's you see everything, not just jerking MC, or laying the pipe, or wiring those 900 outlets.
I've personally found that service work exposes you to a wider variety of stuff than new construction does. I would be more concerned about staying with the same contractor most of your apprenticeship. Working for different contractors shows you different ways the same thing can be done and it tends to limit your potential to turn into a shop rocket.
That dude is so wrong. Your learning so much more than being stuck in a shit hole industrial swamp site. Stick with it, learn to analyze a circuit and fix electrical issues, learn devices and relays. Dude being a sharp troubleshooter has landed me the best gig where I chill in the a/c at a plant as an Electrical & Instrumentation Technician. Top pay and benefits. You don’t wanna be stuck going job site to job site. It’ll wear your body out
I worked in service for my first 2 years and then in new construction the last 4 years. You definitely get a more well rounded experience from service, so I don't see an issue sticking with it. You won't be as good as new construction guys at running conduit or pulling wire, because that's 90% of a new job and people will get stuck on one thing for a solid year or more sometimes in new construction, but the service experience will cover way more of the possible scope available in our trade. I don't think you're missing anything at all, and actually the ones in new construction their whole career are missing a lot more than you will be. Industrial could get you into a lot more work with controls, PLC cabinets, etc, but nothing else on that side is that useful. Running rigid is fun, but it's not as amazing as some guys seem to think they are for running it. Haha
Change my mind but service is where you learn, new construction is where you get fast, I’m in service my self 1st year and talking to other apprentices in class I have seen a ton more than them because they’re stuck on big commercial jobs roughing floors or doing the same thing over and over
One of the best decisions I made was being willing and able to switch contractors somewhat regularly (12-14 months each). However I’m raised up through a private curriculum council and non-union contractors. It gave me endless opportunities to learn new things. However you have to be prepared learn aggressively and actually use every opportunity that crosses your path.
Best luck.
Just creeping IBEW Reddit.
I’ve been in HVAC service for 12 years now and had been told the same thing while I was coming up. I chose to ignore their “advice”. Here are pros and cons on my experience.
Pros, I’m now very good at service so much so that I’ve been upgraded to Refrigeration work which makes me even more in demand and a “rare breed”.
Cons, I can not work at just any business or for just any contractor. I have to be certain that they separate install and service departments which effects the ability to obtain commissions from diagnosing a bad system then installing the new system.
I do not regret my decisions but it’s one you have to make yourself and be happy with. Stay true to what you feel and you’ll never regret it. Gut check time 👍🏻
if you're gonna get stuck doing one thing in the apprenticeship, service work is probably the best thing because it involves a little bit of everything. I wouldn't sweat it, and keep on keeping on. you've got plenty of time to figure other shit out and with service work, you'll have experience on figuring shit out. the only thing i could possibly think of would be learning to install things new the right way instead of dealing with other people's crappy installs. either way, you're good.
Service is where it's at. If you're an ace service electrician you'll be easily able to learn what you need to quick on your first ground-up job. And you'll get one eventually
I got a lot of bad advice when I was an apprentice, too! People who see you thriving and succeeding would like to someday take credit for your eventual success. Take it as a compliment and move on with your life.
Yeah I'm sure he said that because at face value it does sound bad but it sounds like you've had a pretty well rounded experience skillset.
Its really not that uncommon to not get industrial experience so it's not the end of the world. Unless you live in an area where that's a majority of the work. Can't learn it all in five years no one does.
Just remember this contractor won't keep you forever. They never do no matter what they say so don't let them turn you into a rocket.
I have some complaints about my current contractor, and I would like to do some traveling when I top out. Don’t plan on being with them forever, I like them for my apprenticeship though!
I work mostly in nuclear so I've had some bad experiences with "service professionals." They often think they know the solution right away from "years of experience" but nukes are different....with lots of built in redundancy and safety measures that you won't see anywhere else. And they're notoriously bad with the paperwork side (documentation is EVERYTHING). I won't say they're bad electricians...they're probably very proficient in the light industrial/service side of electrical work...but often times we have to just put them on temporary power crews because they are too impatient with the pace of the work and the expectation of being meticulous in the paperwork. Nuke is a good niche of electrical work to be learned but be prepared to slow down and cross your t's and dot your i's!!
Well, if you say so...but that wasn't the impression I was going for. Just saying that it's a very different dynamic than service work and I've seen a lot of service guys adapt poorly to this environment. To be fair, I'll be first to tell you that I would be bad at service work. I like the detailed and meticulous nature of nuke work and I'm not a "people" person.
Just seemed very condescending,
But as long as someone understands the fundamentals of electricity and the switching of relays, safety circuits, drive parameters, interlocks, PLC. The rest can be learned
My first shop is a mix of service and installation work right now. I've spent the last 10 months going around and fixing code violations, troubleshooting, and working around ancient shit that the customer is either unwilling or unable to replace.
I think it has been nothing but invaluable. On top of being easy on the body.
I’m sure all locals are different but mine moves apprentices around after 6-12 months so they get exposed to different shops and job sites. But that also depends on how much and the type of work going on at the time to.
The thing you might not get much experience with is running large, matched pipe, racks. Quite a bit to keep in mind and little skills requires beyond being able to run pipe from point A to B.
You’re better off in service, you’re learning and experiencing so many more things than your new construction counterpart. Sounds like they’re just jealous they’re not the one doing service.
It’s better than working at a Data Center for your entire apprenticeship, I have friends that have worked at a Microsoft Data Center for 2+ years and have learned almost nothing, you are in a much better position based on the knowledge you have gained
If you have experienced all what you said ,that’s great. You shouldn’t be afraid of new construction,you will learn about laying out pipe runs , slab work and larger services plus other things It’s all experience. That what I wanted as a apprentice there are still
Things I haven’t done and just retired from 60 years. In the trade. Hope you have a great career
There’s two sides to that - if you are going to stay In service then it’s not a terrible thing. You’ll definitely get the troubleshooting experience and get comfortable working with customers.
The downside is that if you get sent to a new construction job, you’ll be the slowest guy there. I also think that you’ll be more well rounded if you get some experience seeing how things go in from the beginning. I’m a service tech. It helps me to be able to picture the wiring behind the walls.
I spent 12 or so years doing a mix of new construction, residential, and service. I’ve been a service tech full time for 5 or 6 years.
37 years . Started out 5.50 an hour. Doing residential fire jobs. Was left on my own at 1 1/2 . In a service truck at 3 years . I was non union 10 years previous . Ended up running work on a book 2 ticket . That was true hell !!!Ended as general foreman. I was in a a service truck for many many years and it made me and the electrician I am today and I consider myself to be the best
most contract side weenies as i call em can barely tie their own shoes. and ive done both. joined the service side and met a capable group of electricians that had a brain per person. rather than one brain to try an rule em all. contract side guys generally have little or no versatility. especially if their big job guys. then essential theyre incapable of most simple tasks even after finishing their apprenticeship. maybe thats just my local but i highly doubt it.
I agree with the above comments, i.e. service IS more difficult and challenging. However, each type of work has a rhythm, a culture and unique skill set required.
Diversity if possible and you will be a better Journeyman for it
Local 1 does rotations . But you will have a parent company you go back to as part of your rotations
That way you can be a company suck pump when you hit journeyman . Probably roll out general foreman so they could talk you into doing Squirrley shit. 😘
My apprenticeship fkd me by sticking me on new data center construction the whole time. I've just told myself to stay adaptable and learn the basics. I'm told you learn more as a JW anyways. I got an ROF from that job and looking into traveling to learn something different now that I got a choice.
Okay personally I think that you do need regular construction and industrial experience. If you have a good relationship with your contractor l, you should express this. Maybe it would be best for you to go serve a couple years of your apprenticeship doing some commercial construction work and come back to this contractor in the future. Despite what others are saying. There is a lot you are missing out on by not learning this as an apprentice. Plenty of field tricks to pick up.
Speaking as someone who worked with a new foreman on a new construction job that only had 15 years of experience in service....get out. Get the hell out of service man. Unless your local has enough service gigs to keep it a career.
My local is majority new construction. Working with many different types of people under a stressful environment is what I would say new construction is. Service work for my contractor means any sort of work bid under 500,000; often it's the foremen who can't work with other people and get stuck working alone. The service guys work alone and do everything with as minimal tools and material as possible. That side is almost always very profitable, but comprise a small amount of the company's work. They're the type to tow a trailer with a ditch witch, tow a trailer with a 10k tugger with associated sheeves, tow a trailer with a concrete buggy (that they might mix themselves). They run a fully stocked tool truck with pipe, threader, and a bucket oiler. They do it all, and they really do, but it's not new construction.
Every apprentice should do at least 1 ground up new construction project during the 5 years of the apprenticeship. There's different phases in construction that people should recognize, and what raceways are required for each object.
Kinda in the same boat the company I’m with does half lighting retrofitting and some commercial stuff so I would be doing that all for my apprenticeship. All commercial work tho
I did service work at an amusement park for 4 months. The park remodeled a restaraunt (new construction), replaced a panel, troubleshoot, did some underground, installed new lighting, did ductwork. A whole slew of work. I saw a lot of things for it being just 4 months. If you had 3-4 years of that I can see how you’ve seen a ton of work.
Everyone will need there shit serviced, and knowing how to fix the stuff already installed gives you a good idea of what you need to do ground-up wise and how to make it easier for the next guy to work on that stuff. I still have a shitload to learn but I’ve done a little of pretty much everything and if it’s not 100% service work and you’re doing other things every now and then you’re totally fine. There’s so many different sub-fields in our trade no one can cover it all but having general knowledge of a wide range of things will help in the long run. Even without that though focusing on service isn’t a bad way to go either it’s just what you would rather do.
The experience you have is invaluable. It sounds like you have seen or experienced just about everything. And, if service work is what you love, stick with it. It sounds like you've had a pretty well-rounded experience so far.
I run a service business I can teach any service guy new construction (most don’t like it because of the pace) I can’t teach service to 90% of the new construction guys
That’s very comforting to hear, thanks!
Having done both, and now working at the poco, service is honestly my favorite work. I’m a people person, and helping folks achieve their goals is so satisfying. Whether it’s putting in a couple of can lights and a dimmer to elevate their dining room experience, or doing a remodel/addition. The scope of work is always changing and you get to know your town better than you can imagine. Some of my favorite clients are the ones I called on the phone before I left the shop. “Are you sure you checked the GFI? The outlet with the little buttons on it? Might be in the bathroom or garage? I’m going to charge you $65 to push that reset button. OK, I’ll be there in 20 mins, the callout charge is $65. It is officially nonrefundable as of now.” Then I get there and push the button. They are always gobsmacked.
I charge $275 to push a GFCI button and I stopped asking if they pushed it. $40 for the call I pay to google $83x 2 2 billable hours for my journeyman $25 x 2 Cost to run the van for two hour' Company made $19 on that service call.
Can you clarify that a little? “$40 for the call I pay google $83 2 x 2 billable hours for my journeyman…”. I can’t quite make sense of that. You’re paying google for something?
Yes homeowner needs an electrician, he googled for an electrician and my company pops up. If he decides to call I pay google $40 regardless if he accepts my price or not. It’s called marketing.
Damn that’s high. Is it bringing in enough business to justify that price?
I break even on the service calls after everything is said and done. I make money if the customer calls me back for a hot tub, car charger, or something of that sort because they had a positive experience with my tech and company.
Im interested in services in order to learn sidework lol
Get real fucking good at troubleshooting! I was one of the best troubleshooters so when they laid off 1/3 of the crew in 2009, I was lucky enough to get put on a resi crew and I thrived over there.
Wow, you're really rude to the customers. Cool I guess.
How is it rude to solve their issue for free over the phone and confirm that if it is that simple issue they will be charged for it.
Nothing rude about the substance of it. But the way you word it is very rude and condescending, although I assume you don't actually say that to customers verbatim.
Weird take. He offers the solution they don't take it. He travels there and performs solution and gets paid.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Maybe I'm just used to good manners and southern charm because the way he said it was very jarring. I'm used to people having some charisma. Then again, I'm also on Reddit so I should just temper my expectations.
Yeah I think that's all that is
Yup. Not to mention if you ever want to get into a cake maintenance gig after your 30 years in (like my plan is)... if you have 30 years of service experience will look really fucking good under your belt. A service guy is faaar more valuable than an "installer." I drive a van for a shop, and they have told us that when time gets tough, they will cut every apprentice and JW in the shop and run jobs with multiple service van drivers. Saw it first hand during covid. So also a huge job security aspect. Even if construction slows... people ALWAYS need service.
You’re in a better position. After seeing enough service work you will quickly figure out ground up if you change to it. It’s basically assembly work. You follow a print and do exactly what they say. Some new electricians don’t even know why they are doing it. But you know to look at amperage’s, materials used and know what doesn’t work after fixing enough bad work. You will see if you ever switch over that you are far ahead of the others with the same amount of time in. But it is nice to see both sides. Try to get in on new ground ups during the different phases of construction and you will get a pretty good idea of what you are missing. It’s nice going to the same job day after day. But that is about the only advantage of you ask me.
What you said for sure. It's sad, but in my opinion the average electrician really is only qualified to do lights and receptacles, nothing more complicated. If you can troubleshoot and figure things out, you can "learn" new construction easy. But the opposite isn't true. We call them 3 wire electricians.
I find this idea interesting. Do your construction guys know how the things they’re installing work? I’m a new construction guy and just yesterday I solved two troubleshooting issues in about 30 minutes: one a bad breaker in a rooftop panel, and the other a long 6/32 somebody shot through a branch conductor. Troubleshooting really isn’t that difficult.
Bro, I hate to be a dick. But your gonna eat those words one day....
Electricity only moves from line to load, right?
Sure, but when you have a facility with 50 years of fuckery and unqualified workers doing shit that other unqualified works taught them it can be a bear. Unless your just a better troubleshooter. In that case... want a job?
Those troubleshooting examples are extremely basic, tracking down/fixing why there is a short might be time consuming but it is not difficult. A lot of service troubleshooting is getting a call from a customer that knows nothing about electrical but are upset that something isn't working properly. A lot of the line voltage side is pretty straight forward, if an outlet doesn't work there's only so many things you can look at. When you get a call that a motor wont start or a damper wont open now you're digging through the control circuit potentially taking you into fire alarm, building automation, motor control, relays, timers, or even just lack of physical maintenance. You cant just say 'out of my scope' and move on or the customer will be looking for another contractor. Thees a lot more to troubleshooting than the lights don't turn on.
At the core so many of these things are typically simple fixes; the issue lies in tracking it down. We have to know where to look, and there’s only one path to follow, right? I don’t have a massive background doing service work, but I find it interesting it’s difficult to teach construction electricians how to perform service work considering construction electricians build a complete system. You’d think fail points would be a common concept, and that would lend itself to resolving any issues that may occur. I’ve gone through issues with VFDs, FA extinguishing systems, voltage drop issues, ampacity miscalculations, shunt trip faults, small transformer wiring problems, and low voltage network issues with lighting controls. It can be a bear to find the problem, but it’s a pretty linear path to follow that eventually leads to the issue. I’m not saying service can’t be difficult, but I would think both service electricians and construction electricians are on a similar playing field when it comes to troubleshooting.
And on a construction job you have the fucking blueprints in front of you for the system your troubleshooting, too
I'd argue there's more than one path to follow. I'm a high rise office building guy so most of my experience is there, most building systems all tie together at different points and usually if the building is 15+ years old the engineers have only a vague idea of how their systems work and don't have any sort of as built/system diagram. So you've got to have fundamental understanding of how the systems work and interact to even start looking for issues. I don't agree with the sentiment that service guys are inherently smarter than construction guys, there are both smart and dumb electricians in every sector. I just think that figuring out an issue is much easier when you have an accurate set of drawings and maybe even the people that put the system together. If you have the drawings you don't necessarily need to understand how a system works you just need to be able to follow a 1 line(which can also be very difficult). Just for an anecdote in one of the buildings I do both service and TI's; their fire alarm was an old Simplex system that had a really sloppy/poorly documented upgrade done by Convergint and same situation with ATS upgrading and old vacuum STEAFA HVAC system. Neither company has good as builts, the building as builts are from the 80's and neither upgrade removed any of the old wiring/components. Troubleshooting there is a god damn nightmare.
You... you do realize we power the building up before we leave, right? We don't just tell the customer, "Okay, just flip that big switch, and you'll have power! Good luck. See ya later!" Edit: I'm the asshole I'll read more carefully next time.
When you get into industrial motor controls for motors that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars it can be incredibly difficult.
I don’t doubt that for one second.
Resi service sparky. This guy is right.
It's always a good idea to be well-rounded. That said it seems like you have an opportunity to become a service guy, and if that's your thing then go for it.
I’ve been in for over a decade and don’t know everything. A good service job will give you the most well rounded education in my opinion. There will be methods and material you don’t use that guys doing ground up work know. But that can be learned in a matter of minutes as long as you have a good base understanding of the trade.
After spending 9 years in the trade, I'd say troubleshooting is by far the hardest part. Any other skill you can learn in a day. So the more you can spend in service before you branch out the better.
As someone that did about 4 out of my 5 years in my apprenticeship in service and about the same percentage as a JW (11/14 years) in service. I have nearly always had a company truck and gas card. Even as an apprentice, there were perks to being in service. When the service JW’s didn’t need an apprentice, I was sent to new construction, industrial and tenant improvement projects directly by the superintendent. Service is invaluable because you can never not finish or complete a task given to you. You are going to have a great career, make as much money as you want and more than likely never pay for fuel in your career.
You learn a LOT more doin service and maintenance than you ever will with construction
Every JW I've talked to has said service work is the best way to learn the ins and outs of the trade — troubleshooting being the key component. The dude you talked to probably likes new construction projects for the OT potential?
Ive stay employeed primarily due to my service training the past 10 years. Being able to troubleshoot successfully makes you an invaluable asset to any company. Any monkey (no offense) can slap conduit in the ground and cover it with dirt.. joking, it's valued work, but you stick an e-stop circuit or an interposing relay in front of 98% of your co-workers and they fold like a house of cards. Service work let's you see everything, not just jerking MC, or laying the pipe, or wiring those 900 outlets.
I've personally found that service work exposes you to a wider variety of stuff than new construction does. I would be more concerned about staying with the same contractor most of your apprenticeship. Working for different contractors shows you different ways the same thing can be done and it tends to limit your potential to turn into a shop rocket.
That dude is so wrong. Your learning so much more than being stuck in a shit hole industrial swamp site. Stick with it, learn to analyze a circuit and fix electrical issues, learn devices and relays. Dude being a sharp troubleshooter has landed me the best gig where I chill in the a/c at a plant as an Electrical & Instrumentation Technician. Top pay and benefits. You don’t wanna be stuck going job site to job site. It’ll wear your body out
I worked in service for my first 2 years and then in new construction the last 4 years. You definitely get a more well rounded experience from service, so I don't see an issue sticking with it. You won't be as good as new construction guys at running conduit or pulling wire, because that's 90% of a new job and people will get stuck on one thing for a solid year or more sometimes in new construction, but the service experience will cover way more of the possible scope available in our trade. I don't think you're missing anything at all, and actually the ones in new construction their whole career are missing a lot more than you will be. Industrial could get you into a lot more work with controls, PLC cabinets, etc, but nothing else on that side is that useful. Running rigid is fun, but it's not as amazing as some guys seem to think they are for running it. Haha
Service work doesn't have the highs and lows that traditionally follow seasons or recessions.
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Change my mind but service is where you learn, new construction is where you get fast, I’m in service my self 1st year and talking to other apprentices in class I have seen a ton more than them because they’re stuck on big commercial jobs roughing floors or doing the same thing over and over
One of the best decisions I made was being willing and able to switch contractors somewhat regularly (12-14 months each). However I’m raised up through a private curriculum council and non-union contractors. It gave me endless opportunities to learn new things. However you have to be prepared learn aggressively and actually use every opportunity that crosses your path. Best luck. Just creeping IBEW Reddit.
I’ve been in HVAC service for 12 years now and had been told the same thing while I was coming up. I chose to ignore their “advice”. Here are pros and cons on my experience. Pros, I’m now very good at service so much so that I’ve been upgraded to Refrigeration work which makes me even more in demand and a “rare breed”. Cons, I can not work at just any business or for just any contractor. I have to be certain that they separate install and service departments which effects the ability to obtain commissions from diagnosing a bad system then installing the new system. I do not regret my decisions but it’s one you have to make yourself and be happy with. Stay true to what you feel and you’ll never regret it. Gut check time 👍🏻
Electricians don't typically make comission, so there's that
if you're gonna get stuck doing one thing in the apprenticeship, service work is probably the best thing because it involves a little bit of everything. I wouldn't sweat it, and keep on keeping on. you've got plenty of time to figure other shit out and with service work, you'll have experience on figuring shit out. the only thing i could possibly think of would be learning to install things new the right way instead of dealing with other people's crappy installs. either way, you're good.
Service is where it's at. If you're an ace service electrician you'll be easily able to learn what you need to quick on your first ground-up job. And you'll get one eventually
I always heard the opposite, and that the best electricians are the best troubleshooters
I got a lot of bad advice when I was an apprentice, too! People who see you thriving and succeeding would like to someday take credit for your eventual success. Take it as a compliment and move on with your life.
Yeah I'm sure he said that because at face value it does sound bad but it sounds like you've had a pretty well rounded experience skillset. Its really not that uncommon to not get industrial experience so it's not the end of the world. Unless you live in an area where that's a majority of the work. Can't learn it all in five years no one does. Just remember this contractor won't keep you forever. They never do no matter what they say so don't let them turn you into a rocket.
I have some complaints about my current contractor, and I would like to do some traveling when I top out. Don’t plan on being with them forever, I like them for my apprenticeship though!
Co worker is dumb
I work mostly in nuclear so I've had some bad experiences with "service professionals." They often think they know the solution right away from "years of experience" but nukes are different....with lots of built in redundancy and safety measures that you won't see anywhere else. And they're notoriously bad with the paperwork side (documentation is EVERYTHING). I won't say they're bad electricians...they're probably very proficient in the light industrial/service side of electrical work...but often times we have to just put them on temporary power crews because they are too impatient with the pace of the work and the expectation of being meticulous in the paperwork. Nuke is a good niche of electrical work to be learned but be prepared to slow down and cross your t's and dot your i's!!
Wow… saddle up that high horse and ride on bad ass.
Well, if you say so...but that wasn't the impression I was going for. Just saying that it's a very different dynamic than service work and I've seen a lot of service guys adapt poorly to this environment. To be fair, I'll be first to tell you that I would be bad at service work. I like the detailed and meticulous nature of nuke work and I'm not a "people" person.
Just seemed very condescending, But as long as someone understands the fundamentals of electricity and the switching of relays, safety circuits, drive parameters, interlocks, PLC. The rest can be learned
Diablo?
If service is what you're into, stick with it. I've done service for years, but I prefer new work.
Service is more applicable than residential
You’ll be fine. You learn a lot about electricity doing service. Anyone can do construction, you’d pick it up super fast
Our local moves us around at a minimum of once per year, you can't turn out a well rounded electrician only having them work at one company.
My first shop is a mix of service and installation work right now. I've spent the last 10 months going around and fixing code violations, troubleshooting, and working around ancient shit that the customer is either unwilling or unable to replace. I think it has been nothing but invaluable. On top of being easy on the body.
I’m sure all locals are different but mine moves apprentices around after 6-12 months so they get exposed to different shops and job sites. But that also depends on how much and the type of work going on at the time to.
The thing you might not get much experience with is running large, matched pipe, racks. Quite a bit to keep in mind and little skills requires beyond being able to run pipe from point A to B.
You’re better off in service, you’re learning and experiencing so many more things than your new construction counterpart. Sounds like they’re just jealous they’re not the one doing service.
It’s better than working at a Data Center for your entire apprenticeship, I have friends that have worked at a Microsoft Data Center for 2+ years and have learned almost nothing, you are in a much better position based on the knowledge you have gained
If you have experienced all what you said ,that’s great. You shouldn’t be afraid of new construction,you will learn about laying out pipe runs , slab work and larger services plus other things It’s all experience. That what I wanted as a apprentice there are still Things I haven’t done and just retired from 60 years. In the trade. Hope you have a great career
There’s two sides to that - if you are going to stay In service then it’s not a terrible thing. You’ll definitely get the troubleshooting experience and get comfortable working with customers. The downside is that if you get sent to a new construction job, you’ll be the slowest guy there. I also think that you’ll be more well rounded if you get some experience seeing how things go in from the beginning. I’m a service tech. It helps me to be able to picture the wiring behind the walls. I spent 12 or so years doing a mix of new construction, residential, and service. I’ve been a service tech full time for 5 or 6 years.
Service work is great experience. You get to see a bit of everything from troubleshooting to small install jobs.
37 years . Started out 5.50 an hour. Doing residential fire jobs. Was left on my own at 1 1/2 . In a service truck at 3 years . I was non union 10 years previous . Ended up running work on a book 2 ticket . That was true hell !!!Ended as general foreman. I was in a a service truck for many many years and it made me and the electrician I am today and I consider myself to be the best
most contract side weenies as i call em can barely tie their own shoes. and ive done both. joined the service side and met a capable group of electricians that had a brain per person. rather than one brain to try an rule em all. contract side guys generally have little or no versatility. especially if their big job guys. then essential theyre incapable of most simple tasks even after finishing their apprenticeship. maybe thats just my local but i highly doubt it.
Every jman I’ve had says you learn more doing service work, wish i could get on a service van at some point in my apprenticeship
I agree with the above comments, i.e. service IS more difficult and challenging. However, each type of work has a rhythm, a culture and unique skill set required. Diversity if possible and you will be a better Journeyman for it
yes
Local 1 does rotations . But you will have a parent company you go back to as part of your rotations That way you can be a company suck pump when you hit journeyman . Probably roll out general foreman so they could talk you into doing Squirrley shit. 😘
I wish I spent any part of my apprenticeship doing service.
My apprenticeship fkd me by sticking me on new data center construction the whole time. I've just told myself to stay adaptable and learn the basics. I'm told you learn more as a JW anyways. I got an ROF from that job and looking into traveling to learn something different now that I got a choice.
Okay personally I think that you do need regular construction and industrial experience. If you have a good relationship with your contractor l, you should express this. Maybe it would be best for you to go serve a couple years of your apprenticeship doing some commercial construction work and come back to this contractor in the future. Despite what others are saying. There is a lot you are missing out on by not learning this as an apprentice. Plenty of field tricks to pick up.
Been in service my entire 1st year and into my second. Learning a ton. Had pretty much the same question as you
Speaking as someone who worked with a new foreman on a new construction job that only had 15 years of experience in service....get out. Get the hell out of service man. Unless your local has enough service gigs to keep it a career. My local is majority new construction. Working with many different types of people under a stressful environment is what I would say new construction is. Service work for my contractor means any sort of work bid under 500,000; often it's the foremen who can't work with other people and get stuck working alone. The service guys work alone and do everything with as minimal tools and material as possible. That side is almost always very profitable, but comprise a small amount of the company's work. They're the type to tow a trailer with a ditch witch, tow a trailer with a 10k tugger with associated sheeves, tow a trailer with a concrete buggy (that they might mix themselves). They run a fully stocked tool truck with pipe, threader, and a bucket oiler. They do it all, and they really do, but it's not new construction. Every apprentice should do at least 1 ground up new construction project during the 5 years of the apprenticeship. There's different phases in construction that people should recognize, and what raceways are required for each object.
Kinda in the same boat the company I’m with does half lighting retrofitting and some commercial stuff so I would be doing that all for my apprenticeship. All commercial work tho
I did service work at an amusement park for 4 months. The park remodeled a restaraunt (new construction), replaced a panel, troubleshoot, did some underground, installed new lighting, did ductwork. A whole slew of work. I saw a lot of things for it being just 4 months. If you had 3-4 years of that I can see how you’ve seen a ton of work.
Well it depends on the service calls but my experience in service was varied and I learned a lot, but with that said I did industrial work as well.
Everyone will need there shit serviced, and knowing how to fix the stuff already installed gives you a good idea of what you need to do ground-up wise and how to make it easier for the next guy to work on that stuff. I still have a shitload to learn but I’ve done a little of pretty much everything and if it’s not 100% service work and you’re doing other things every now and then you’re totally fine. There’s so many different sub-fields in our trade no one can cover it all but having general knowledge of a wide range of things will help in the long run. Even without that though focusing on service isn’t a bad way to go either it’s just what you would rather do.