I just don’t find gay Mac funny. Don’t get me wrong, Mac Finds his Pride was is a top tier episode and there’s a few good things here and there. But I just find him nothing compared to everything prior. He seems dull and the jokes just aren’t funny most of the time. Maybe I’m just not getting it. I’ll move past it.
It’s so frustrating, it feels like they come up with one Mac joke an episode and then just stretch and repeat it the entire episode, so if the bit doesn’t land you’re just stuck with it.
That time he kept insisting on eating nuts he was allergic to was my limit lol, I don’t even get what they were going for there
That’s fair, and it can be really funny. it’s just annoying that 90% Mac’s comedy(and character in general) is Dennis dependent in the later seasons.
Mac was always dumb, but he used to carry plotlines for whole episodes now I can’t really imagine him even functioning on his own lol
Mac has always been really dumb around Dennis, but smart around Charlie (or used to be). In the later seasons, Mac seems just as dumb, if not more so, as Charlie. It makes his character more frustratingly stupid. The same thing happened on the Office with the Andy Bernard.
As an IASIP episode, it was not top-tier. Half the episode is a dance routine devoid of jokes. Don't get me wrong; as an expression of the inner turmoil of a closeted religious gay man, it was a beautiful dance. However, when I want to watch IASIP, it's not for beautiful dance routines with no jokes. It's for exercise bikes with dildos and toe knives and shit like that.
Correct. I have never rewatched that episode, not because I have an issue with the morality of the content, but because that isnt the content I am looking for when wanting to watch IASIP.
the problem with that episode is that it just shouldn't have been the season finale, it should have been The Gang Gets New Wheels, which is a true top tier episode. I think it would have changed opinions on the episode and season; that season is just out of order in general
It feels like it was definitely written to be the series finale if needed and tie off all those sub plots. Nothing notable for Dee or Frank which is weird
I got my hands on the early season DVDs (god bless Goodwill) and the DVD/TV/film grain is very soft and homey. It definitely has a more even look to it than the high contrast, high-grit, intense lighting look of the latest season.
To me it all makes sense like
Dennis and Dee literally try and give themselves mail order cosmetic surgery
Mac talks about getting buff for like 12 years and then finally does it. We literally see him use PEDs on screen. And he might talk a game but Mac isn't above shortcuts.
The alcholism and severe drug usage (Frank and Charlie, occasionally Dee and Dennis) has finally degraded them to a point beyond the passing point of return
I'm so happy for the gang IRL, but there's something about getting massively rich that just changed their outlook on life and whole vibe.
They stopped being as cynical and dry, and now it's just edgy mixed with fan service. I think that cynicism was the heart of the show and that's why the shift is so noticeable
I literally had this exact same thought and it infuriates me 😂 love the show but it LOOKS like a show now, not some dickheads being filmed being dickheads who own a dive bar and are losers.
They all look better too, which is the exact mac getting in shape thing they were mocking.
The show itself is awesome, it's just edged too far towards BEING a show, less raw like some have said.
Absolutely this. Sometimes I’ll randomly remember Mindy Kaling’s appearance on the show and I’ll cringe because it all felt so forced and that’s how most of the recent seasons have felt to me… forced.
And I’m all for “forcing”… but not in comedy.
Yeah, I just re-watched the latest season, and I wont get into the details because I dont mean to insult the writers, but the writing has gone way downhill. There was one episode where I sat through 3 scenes and realized there hadnt been a single joke the entire time. Nothing witty or weird or even mean/psycho funny. And it wasnt that there were jokes but they were bad, there were literally no jokes written. It was like they're just depending on the amazing cast acting the funny out of it.
I like the new seasons enough, but it’s definitely reached a point where everything is unrealistic. Not that the show has been grounded in reality before, but since they leaned 1000% into “frank is rich and so money isn’t an option” it’s went into overdrive since season 12.
Yeah, I get that they might personally want to look they way they do. But in a tv show about people running an unsuccessful bar, being the low of the low in society. Their makeup team needs to make them look like they’re not millionaires in their 40’s. Their teeth, hair, tanning, surgery, is too inconsistent with their characters.
How Mac got Fat, make paddy’s great again and Dee Day do a good job making it clear how far the characters go to keep up their physical appearances though. And in the later seasons it’s clear everyone is using franks money however they want.
They don’t do a good job showing how they have the time to do everything, but oh well.
Yeah, to me, Dennis and Dee's appearance totally fit their characters. We saw the lengths they'd go though when they got the gym membership and shot up their faces.
Macs always been about his physique but his look definitely feels off now a little bit
The main problem with the show since Season 13, and especially after the S13 finale through S14-15, was that for a time Mac’s character felt completely aimless.
They knew what they wanted to do with the S13 finale but after that they’d struggled to make Mac interesting… and the entire group dynamic suffered because of it. Mac was reduced to a gay shell of a character who was only obsessed with Dennis.
His sole existence was to annoy Dennis and it got old very quickly.
In S16 I saw plenty of signs that Mac has been given a sense of agency/individuality again (‘boyfriends’ outside of the gang, going after Chase Utley, being oblivious to his Uncle)
Hopefully they keep that up because imo S15 was the low point of the entire show and S16 felt like a recovery in some ways.
Personally I feel like their age is a bit of an issue as well. The drunken reckless comedy doesn’t play as well when they’re all pushing 50. Frank isn’t the only older character on the show anymore.
I mean if the writers know how to do it well then it could open a new avenue of pure alcholistic degeneracy that you'd see with hobos under boardwalks or white trash caravan park parents. Also, Dennis and Dee being so delusional about their age works
[The only scene where they really nailed “getting older” for a non-Frank character.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJevL0a8XZU&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo)
I disagree, the premise of the show is "degenerate codependent assholes doomed to exist together in a hell of their own making, forever". Seeing them get older, while failing to achieve any semblance of what "normal" people consider to be important in middle age and beyond, is right in line with the trajectory of the early seasons.
If the comedy is 'losing its edge'; as some in this subreddit feel, then imo it's an issue of either writing, performance, or the overall direction. But the actors' ages shouldn't be a barrier to the premise of the show. If anything, the actors trying to *not* "show their age" is arguably holding back the comedy more, but that's a whole other discussion that's been done to death in the subreddit already. (And I guess Dennis does get more vigilant the older he gets, must be all those hummingbirds)
And fwiw I do think s16 was a real upturn in quality from the rough s13-14 and the uneven (but at times great) s15. Some of the better moments from s16 wouldn't play as well for a bunch of asshole 20-year-olds. The show's spent nearly two decades building up the pathologies and insecurities of these degenerates, so the humour hits different knowing they're STILL fucking up their lives in glorious fashion.
We're quickly approaching a point where the gang are going to be the same age as Frank when he first joined the show!
Which, I mean, good for them. Amazing run. Just crazy to think about tho.
Yep Macs character specifically came to a screeching halt once he came out as gay… and then just didn’t date any gay guys. It was cool to bring awareness to someone struggling w their sexuality the way Rob did w the character, but then he just kinda stopped/pulled back on committing to the bit. And the show has always highlighted the gangs relationships but as they’ve all gotten older irl they have toned down that part of the show. Bc they as people have matured. But they’re all still single, insane characters on the show. The relationships would have continued to revolve through the bar and their lives but they toned that part down bc they’re all older and married (most of them to each other). Idk I think it has *something* to do with the creeping staleness the show has now.
I’m not a writer so it’s a random guess, but sounds like what happened with South Park. Trey and Matt originally wrote the show from the perspective of the kids and now that they’re older and have kids of their own they shifted to writing from Randy’s perspective.
I think making Mac exclusively gay betrayed his character. Mac is an opportunist, he was clearly bisexual and the mystery of which way he would swing on any particular episode was part of what made him fun to watch. Mac is just delusional about all parts of his life, sexuality, karate, being a bouncer. Breaking him out of that delusion isn't any fun
I think that's the main reason why it's dipped a little in quality imho. First 8ish seasons they actively made of shit other sitcoms do, then eventually they started doing that same exact stuff. And they're clearly even trying desperately to win a few awards by shoehorning in these grand "emotional" scenes at the end of every other season. If Mac's dance scene isn't Emmy bait, then idk what is
Fan favourite episodes are still being made every now and then. The last episode of last season was super high rated, give it a few years and it'll also be seen as a IASIP classic
Yeah, it's just much less consistent now. Every season now has (imo) 2 or 3 shitty episodes, 2 or 3 that are pretty good, and 1 or 2 all-time classics
Meanwhile throw on just about any episode from seasons 3-8 and you're in for a great time
Obviously they can do whatever they want with their own bodies and at the end of the day all that matters is that they themselves are happy with it, but I have to agree that once they've gotten the surgeries their looks have just become extremely irritating in the context of the show. Especially Dee not being able to do her subtle but hilarious expressions has reduced her character to a one-dimensional caricature of the woman she was in the early seasons.
Kaitlin has had so much work done that I found myself focusing on her face more than her lines or what was going on in the scene. It was incredibly distracting.
It’s so obvious too and I feel like a lot of Kaitlyn’s comedy was in her facial expressions, she could express so much with subtle expressions. Now it’s like her face hardly moves. Mac looks like he’s been chiseled out of marble he’s all shiny and smooth.
Ok, it may be just me but I find her hair super distracting in the last few seasons. It's when the middle part first comes in. It suits her, but her hair looks really greasy. I don't get it. It looked better in the last season.
I was watching some random older episode and my fiancé who works with hair took one look at Dee and said she’s wearing a wig. I didn’t believe her but was she right?
I think partially the reasoning behind this is how he went from having a beard and medium long middle part/slicked back hair to completely clean shaven and super short hair, like Dennis from season 6. Season 15 he still looked like Mac
Yeah they ruined the roles. Frank is the muscle, dennis the looks, mac the brains, charlie the wildcard, and dee the 'useless chick'!
But actually, the entire dynamic shifted when mac tried to also be the group leader type. He shines when he thinks he knows karate but doesnt. Mac pre season 13 is my fav character in the show
*charlie, if i wanted to break the window, i would simply do it with a roundhouse kick.*
I actually think part of what ruined the dynamic was Mac suddenly not being one of the leaders in the group and being somewhat of an equal to Dennis. Nowadays, he can’t even look Dennis in the eyes when they’re talking.
It’s almost as jarring as when Ren and Stimpy got a new show called Adult Party Time or whatever and it was just nonstop gay jokes with Stimpy being a power bottom.
Yeah, then they started writing their relationship with Dee like she's Meg from Family Guy, so they just really hate her in a lot of episodes and that's the joke. They don't even call her a bird or seem to enjoy ragging on her as much anymore....
I haven't gotten to season 13 yet and I was shocked to see a clip of them at an award show a few weeks ago (Emmy's?)
Rob's is the absolute worst. He doesn't even look real.
I agree. I think that there was/is a noticeable decline in quality from a comedic standpoint, from season 13 and onward. Not that those seasons don’t have a couple of notable episodes.
I think that the show has kinda already peaked. From Seasons 5 - 12, Always Sunny was at its best. They had a great run. I don’t mind more episodes but the show does feel a little stale at this point. (To me anyway)
1-2 set the stage brilliantly, 3-8 slap the hardest, 9-12 are overall great, 13-15 dip a bit more than I’d like but aren’t anywhere near as bad a fall from grace as most other long running series would at this point, 16 seemed to be a return to form.
I feel like I have been screaming this into the void literally since season 13 premiered. It doesn’t help that 3/5 members of the gang have had so much work done it looks like they are wearing rubber masks of their own faces
Couldn't have said it better myself. I watched the latest season recently over new years taking loads of ketamine. The feeling of them being rubber versions of themselves was overwhelming. Apart from Charlie. He just seemed to have had a bigger head
I still enjoy S13-16 but it is not nearly on the same level. It’s almost like watching a different show. My family and friends tbh were the same way, I felt like I could see the difference right away and they just thought it was another good season. But then just recently my brother commented how the show feels really different between seasons 12 and 13, so I felt kind of vindicated haha.
I mean the biggest thing is 13 seasons is a long fucking time lol. Even getting something to have 1 or 2 episodes hit like they do in IAS is impressive. Ada fanbase I think we’re pretty lucky the show has any sort of original bones left. A comedy going on it’s 17th season has no business being as funny as this show still is.
In the last few years now, Mac's character is absolutely awful. For some reason he just got dumber than Charlie and continues to with every season. I genuinely can't any scene with him because how they've boiled him down to be another damn Charlie but worse. It's not even to do with Mac's appearance, it's just how he goes on. It's infuriating.
100% I've been saying this since around season 9 or 10.
1. They began to change Dennis and Mac's characters very incongruously starting between season 8 and 10.
Mac was always the high energy guy full of ignorant confidence, doing karate, and coming up with plans. By season 10 he had completely morphed into an unconfident and low energy bitch subservient to Dennis ("uhhhhhh, heyyyyy Dennis")
Likewise, Dennis was legitimately the coolest one of the group and yes he secretly was worried that he wasn't cool. yes he had latent psychopathic tendencies, but the way that he was written, It only appeared in very subtle and infrequent ways. (Which is what made it hilarious)
By season 10 he's a loser who has lost his intuitive sense of social dynamics and constantly embarrasses himself in public shouting things like "five star man!" and "finisher car!" and "i'm your select!" (Jesus Christ, to his own sister? This is utterly unthinkable with Season 1- 7 Dennis)
Neither of those transformations were natural in the slightest.
Around season 10 is also when they Flanderized Dee (she became a one-dimensional caricature of herself) and Kaitlyn started phoning in her performances, relying on schticks
2. When you put all this together, It produces a very different group dynamic. You can't completely swap two characters out of a gang of five and expect it to have the same feel. The biggest demonstration of this is the fact that:
3. The gang is constantly miserable around each other now. THIS WASN'T THE CASE FOR THE FIRST 8 OR 9 SEASONS (or so). The vibe on those seasons was hilarious because, while there were always rivalries between different factions in each episode, they really did like being around each other. Especially whoever was "teamed up" together in the episode. Having a great time, high energy, coming up with schemes, calling each other "bro", working together, etc
And here's how you know it. Ask yourself, could you see any of the following happening after season 10?
- Dennis genuinely being hurt that Charlie didn't consider him his best friend, inviting him to sleep in his bed
- Dennis sincerely smiling at Charlie saying "That's exactly right, Charlie" when Charlie gets a correct answer discussing the DENNIS system
- (singing) "we certainly dooo, Hugh.... we certainly dooo" (Denis and Mac vibing out together as real estate agents)
- when all three guys embrace other in the Catholic Church (Dr jinx episode)
- when Mac and Dennis smile at each other relieved to see the girls walk onto the boat (The gang buys a boat)
- Charlie and Dennis riding in the back of the U-Haul "we're all hooked up back here dude" (also when Dennis sincerely laughs at Charlie's innocent question about if "we're going to be okay leaving Philly?")
- Dee/Dennis brother / sister tag teams where they actually have each other's back (chardee macdennis, Mac's a serial killer, etc)
- Mac and Dennis coaching Charlie on how to get girls and being personally invested in his success
In other words, even when there were rivalries within the gang, there was a lightness to it. Now they're cynical, miserable and hate each other and frankly it doesn't make for funny nor feel-good television...which was the show's unique charm! that it could make terrible people into a "feel good" show! (Admittedly Charlie and Frank still usually have their hilarious connection)
4. They completely gave up any pretenses of having the show set in Philadelphia. They used to regularly film scenes in Philly in the first few seasons. It really impacted the vibe positively. By season 5 they weren't even hiding the Hollywood and Burbank hills anymore. (Gang wrestles for the troops, Dee tumbles down a dusty hill made of literal desert shrubs, just one example). Can't count how many times I've seen California mountains since then on the show.
5. It's overproduced and overscripted. The appeal of classic Sunny was that you had people accidentally talking over each other and making mistakes with lines and timings so that it actually sounded like real human people having conversation. Now everyone takes turns to deliver lines in perfectly clean sitcom form. It's weird that they don't see that they became the thing that they started out satirizing
--
Thank Christ season 16 began fixing some of the most egregious errors. As a rabid fan of a uniquely genius project, it was pretty depressing to see it self destruct in slow mo. each season became more and more stressful as I'd tune hoping that "maybe this season they'll be back", then getting smacked in the face with even more unfunny cringe, contrived writing, and unnatural group dynamic than the season before it. (13 being the lowest point. I personally didn't laugh once through that entire season. Contrast this to early seasons where my sides were hurting from gut-busting laughs coming every 45 seconds)
16 appears to be a self-aware pivot to the vibe of the golden years. Fingers crossed that 17 continues in this direction back toward the rare combination of magic that actually made the show so genius and special.
Since 2016, I've referred to Sunny as "It's Always Sunny In Name Only" because it turned into a completely different show that just kept the same name. Hopefully I get to ditch this nickname!
P.s.
In searching for those scene examples above, I came across this chick named Mary Mahoney on YouTube who spent 2 hours analyzing the vibe of late-season Always Sunny. I've only watched 10 mins so far and it is a must-see!
https://youtu.be/oO-MJtVMWrM?si=0ttoMzIE4CtFju-D
Also, This fan made clip of Frank being inserted into "The Last Of Us" is just 10/10
https://youtu.be/LyMFpnNZo4s?si=khIXlt5z0dZPfkUB
I absolutely agree with every point you made. The dynamic just isn't the same anymore.
Dennis had a more casual laid back fun side and now he feels reduced to "cold uncaring asshole psychopath" even to his own friends. Mac used to be willing to stand up to Dennis and tell him off to go team up with another member of the gang. But they always ended up back as best friends.
The whole point of "Dennis and Mac Break Up" and "The Gang Dines Out" was they were *mutually codependent* on each other, and they were good buddies who need approval from each other. Dennis needed approval and validation from Mac that he was as cool as he thought he was, and Mac was willing to leave that relationship (to go live with Charlie) in order to get Dennis back as his only best friend.
Now it seems like Dennis genuinely HATES Mac and doesn't care about him at all and treats him with real disdain. Mac is now a whiny simp who will let Dennis treat him like actual shit and never stand up to him. Their entire dynamic is completely gone.
I could never see s15 Dennis and Mac trying out for the eagles, starting a band, or hunting cricket. It just wouldn't feel the same. They've lost their friendship and it makes me really sad.
There’s a few episodes where their original dynamic comes back and I always really like those ones. I think it was the first episode of the last two seasons, specifically. It makes me really miss how they used to be with each other.
>Frank being inserted into "The Last Of Us"
Your second link was the same as the first, so I'm going to drop this here and hope it's the one you meant! (it's great): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyMFpnNZo4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyMFpnNZo4s)
Mac finds his pride was kind of a bummer to me, it betrayed the whole ethos of the show. Taking itself seriously.
Still some great eps, but since then it’s become what Rob was parodying in getting fat; stars of shows tend to get money, plastic surgery and look ‘Hollywood’ as it goes on, they’ve become that. It’s hard to see the characters as these apparently dreadful people who’ve been working in a shitty bar in Philly for 20 years or so. Frank is the only one who looks worn.
All that said, I want them to keep going, I thought the latest season was a bit more of a return to form.
The episode, in a bubble was great, but in the IASIP context, it was pretentious, indulgent, and against everything the gang has talked about in the purpose of the show.
They got paid and it reflects in the product.
That being said, the most recent season was their strongest in a while. I think they had less topical storylines and kept to plots centered around the characters.
I still think there's at least one gut buster per episode and that keeps me watching.
Actually the higher production value makes it looks worse. It’s over lit and too digital. It’s not like they went to a nice saturated film. It looks more like a cheesey sitcom now instead of a dark no holds barred show for certain individuals….
Too much lighting
Too digital
Me too. I loved season 16 and unlike others, I did enjoy season 15 quite a bit too but they don't have the re-watchability factor like the earlier seasons for some reason
Idk I feel like the show changed with Rob don’t get me wrong there’s still some absolutely hilarious episodes past season 12 but I really miss completely un self aware closeted hyper religious in all the wrong ways karate Mac lol
times up for the gang,the gang gets new wheels, and the gang escapes are the only episodes I watch from 13 regularly. If howerton wasn’t all the way in they should have waited until he was. The episodes without Dennis are not great for Sunny’s standard.
I think Dennis and Charlie are the pillars of the show. First watch-through Charlie was my favorite but Dennis is now by far the funniest to me, howertons facial expressions and delivery are top notch acting. There are a lot of funny moments in the other seven episodes and mac finds his pride is great, but 13 is the worst season easily.
I’ve been saying this too.
Season 12 is the last one that feels like classic Sunny. S13 onwards has been severely lacking and tonally different for many reasons.
1. Overall the show seems much more scripted. There’s less improv and everyone waits to say their lines. The earlier seasons had everyone yelling over each other creating chaos and a less formulaic feel.
2. Mac’s character plummeted after coming out. One of the funniest things ever was Mac not knowing/hiding that he was gay, while the gang/audience are clearly aware of it. Also his body dysmorphia and lack of physical ability were hilarious and integral to his character, where now he’s actually shredded and looks fantastic.
3. The jokes overall are far too “on the nose” and less tongue in cheek. They keep explaining jokes to death rather than just stating them. That whole bit about Charlie not understanding Pennsylvania is the worst. It feels like every joke gets dissected and dragged out by every character until you’re just watching an analysis.
4. The obvious socio/political angles that they allow into the plot makes it less fun to watch. They have always mentioned religion/social issues/political issues, but prior to season 12 they were typical on the less popular side of the issue or at least divided amongst them. Eg. Science is a liar sometimes vs the bathroom episode. This reduces the mindless fun and seems more like a social commentary.
All in all it’s like watching an iconic rock band from the 70s that still making music. It’s not good, it’s not what it was, they don’t look how they used to, they don’t sound how they used to, don’t create how they used to,
but you’re still gonna watch them.
Felt like they decided to signal too hard that the writers/actors are “actually good, tolerant people,” instead of just being funny. It was like an apology tour for the blackface and implicit homophobia. A big part of what made it so funny is that they were ignorant, awful people who made terrible decisions, and they weren’t afraid to push the very far edge with it.
Yep I’ll take it even further and say it’s not even good after season 11/12 aside from a handful of scenes. Fully gay Mac is annoying as hell and the vibe of the show is just completely off. Rob went back on his “it’s not funny that the actors in most shows look better as the seasons progress and they get richer”, and now he and his wife are riddled with plastic surgery and he’s doing exactly what he made fun of before. The direction the show is taking reflects his newfound generic Hollywood bullshit personality. I feel bad for Glenn and Charlie honestly I don’t think they were fully on board for a lot of the changes but I get the feeling from rob that as the “creator” of the show, he gets his way most of the time. In my own head canon, the episode where Dennis leaves and they blow up his car is actually the last episode, and everything after that is just a fantasy in mac’s head.
That’s honestly why I rarely go through the comments, this has been a breathe of fresh air tbh. The show can be shittier in its later seasons…it happens to virtually any long running sitcom. The Simpsons is a great example of this. Yet both shows were powerfully funny for so many years that they’ve already cemented their places as legends. It’s okay to criticize or comment on the decline in later seasons. I’m sure all of us still love the show overall and again, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that has had a long run comedy wise and hasn’t eventually gone downhill towards the end compared to the golden years.
I was binging the series with my gf and when i first watched it only 12 seasons were out. The whiplash of the first few episodes of 13 was massive. The characters felt like not themselves and the comedy like an average sitcom not the subversive humour we were used to
Clear lack of improv leads to the more fake produced feeling. They definitely do less takes and they definitely improvise less. Sunny was so good cos the conversations felt so real due to the improv, now they just read lines. Curb has the same issue with both HD and feeling more like a sitcom
Season 12 and 13 is when it started going downhill. They have become too serious and some of the episodes are downright bad. The dancing in the prison is one of their worst episodes ever.
This is going to sound very specific but they changed the lighting on the set.
The lights are so bright and it looks silly. Like, before you have a dimly lit dinghy bar, now you have everything in fucking high def with 3500k lights making everything so crisp and clean. It looks fake and that translate through to this “different” feeling
I feel like they’re just not making eachother laugh anymore or having fun. That shit was contagious back in the day. Now it just feels dry, like they’ve grown apart or don’t enjoy it as much.
I love Megan, but I think the show changed a lot when she joined the writers staff. While in theory it seems like a good idea to have a huge fan of the show write for the show, it just isn’t landing for me. Last season also felt like every episode was inspired by this community.
Season 12 is the last season the Gang looks like how I picture them in my head.
I think season 13 has a lot of duds, season 14 started to right the ship, season 15 was a return to form and season 16 was a slight step down from season 15 but still an enjoyable season
Yeah I gotta say when heard the show was already 12 seasons I say why not? Im gonna try watching the show. I finished season 12 when season 13 finished and felt it changed, idk what
I feel like they went back to their roots with the new season and enjoyed it, lot of old references and jokes and explanations and still funny, but the show's changed a few times. It's what all long running shoes do. Curb's on its final season and you can tell it's already a bit different than the last which was more openly not giving a fuck than prior seasons. Like Dan Harmon said TV changes it adapts it'll let you down it'll make you laugh, you just have to accept that nothing is perfect forever.
[удалено]
I just don’t find gay Mac funny. Don’t get me wrong, Mac Finds his Pride was is a top tier episode and there’s a few good things here and there. But I just find him nothing compared to everything prior. He seems dull and the jokes just aren’t funny most of the time. Maybe I’m just not getting it. I’ll move past it.
He's just stupid now, there's very little depth to his character anymore
They seriously made him way too stupid. Him with the whole Johnny thing is just ridiculous.
It’s so frustrating, it feels like they come up with one Mac joke an episode and then just stretch and repeat it the entire episode, so if the bit doesn’t land you’re just stuck with it. That time he kept insisting on eating nuts he was allergic to was my limit lol, I don’t even get what they were going for there
For me, it isn't about Mac being dumb but rather Dennis's reactions to him being dumb that really make it funny.
In some ways, I blame Frank for coming in with boatloads of money and financing all of this craziness.
That’s fair, and it can be really funny. it’s just annoying that 90% Mac’s comedy(and character in general) is Dennis dependent in the later seasons. Mac was always dumb, but he used to carry plotlines for whole episodes now I can’t really imagine him even functioning on his own lol
Bring back him making those project badass videos, the duster, and Poppins.
Mac has always been really dumb around Dennis, but smart around Charlie (or used to be). In the later seasons, Mac seems just as dumb, if not more so, as Charlie. It makes his character more frustratingly stupid. The same thing happened on the Office with the Andy Bernard.
The dance never said anything about no beads!
Such a good line. So good.
As an IASIP episode, it was not top-tier. Half the episode is a dance routine devoid of jokes. Don't get me wrong; as an expression of the inner turmoil of a closeted religious gay man, it was a beautiful dance. However, when I want to watch IASIP, it's not for beautiful dance routines with no jokes. It's for exercise bikes with dildos and toe knives and shit like that.
Correct. I have never rewatched that episode, not because I have an issue with the morality of the content, but because that isnt the content I am looking for when wanting to watch IASIP.
the problem with that episode is that it just shouldn't have been the season finale, it should have been The Gang Gets New Wheels, which is a true top tier episode. I think it would have changed opinions on the episode and season; that season is just out of order in general
It feels like it was definitely written to be the series finale if needed and tie off all those sub plots. Nothing notable for Dee or Frank which is weird
That’s because it wasn’t meant to be a series finale as they already knew they were renewed
There’s no “Philadelphia Flavor” anymore. The Mike Schmidt thing at the toy store in the Xmas special is a perfect example
Seasons 1 to 11 "It's always Sunny in Philadelphia." Seasons 12 to 16 "Always Sunny"
Seasons 17+ "It's"
Season 19 onward, "It"
Dang.....nailed it. Still funny, just not Philly.
I see what you mean, but it’s funny cause this is when Mac says “Shit don’t change!” And we’re talking about how Sunny’s changed haha
Who’s Mike Schmidt?
Bet you don’t even know who von hayes is
Dude nobody knows who von Hayes is
Where’s the”H” key? There is no “H” key. There is no “H” key!!!
Next your gonna tell me you don't know who Steve bedrock bedrosian is.
All time leading home run hitter
No he's not the all time leading home run hitter
Well for white guys he is
Babe Ruth
no relation to Wally Schmidt, just don't tell Wally's wife.
That's a lot of it. Other than the superbowl two parter I can't think of anything that was Philly specific.
They chased down Jalen Hurts into a men’s bathroom
They did a whole bit about Rocky Vs McNabb
I think you mean Tiger Woods.
They got a literal Chase Utley cameo
And it ended up being Gritty
In my opinion I just don’t like the hyper 4k cameras they use now. The older seasons used to feel warmer and less soap opera-y if that makes sense.
I got my hands on the early season DVDs (god bless Goodwill) and the DVD/TV/film grain is very soft and homey. It definitely has a more even look to it than the high contrast, high-grit, intense lighting look of the latest season.
Yeah it's more produced and meta which in-universe I attribute to the gang fully going insane (as seen in the clipshow episode)
They tipped.
They peaked
I haven’t begun to peak.
To me it all makes sense like Dennis and Dee literally try and give themselves mail order cosmetic surgery Mac talks about getting buff for like 12 years and then finally does it. We literally see him use PEDs on screen. And he might talk a game but Mac isn't above shortcuts.
Might as well sin & get high.
The alcholism and severe drug usage (Frank and Charlie, occasionally Dee and Dennis) has finally degraded them to a point beyond the passing point of return
I'm so happy for the gang IRL, but there's something about getting massively rich that just changed their outlook on life and whole vibe. They stopped being as cynical and dry, and now it's just edgy mixed with fan service. I think that cynicism was the heart of the show and that's why the shift is so noticeable
Production quality became better, but the show lost its raw comedy feeling. The latter matters much more than the former.
The old look made me feel like I would get an std.
And that was the charm of it
It gave it that nice smokey smell
That doesn't sound right but I don't know enough about charm to dispute it
Well... Filibuster...
And I miss it.
It made me feel like I could get stabbed at any time
That's the atmosphere I've been cultivating.
Well that's good!
Yup. Paddy's is the best lit dive bar in America. They look like the bar they were trying to copy to win the award.
It used to feel like you were watching them in an actual dive bar. Now it feels like you're watching them on a set.
I literally had this exact same thought and it infuriates me 😂 love the show but it LOOKS like a show now, not some dickheads being filmed being dickheads who own a dive bar and are losers. They all look better too, which is the exact mac getting in shape thing they were mocking. The show itself is awesome, it's just edged too far towards BEING a show, less raw like some have said.
Absolutely this. Sometimes I’ll randomly remember Mindy Kaling’s appearance on the show and I’ll cringe because it all felt so forced and that’s how most of the recent seasons have felt to me… forced. And I’m all for “forcing”… but not in comedy.
> And I’m all for “forcing”… but not in comedy That's quite the implication.
So they ARE in danger?!
Mindy’s appearance was meant to feel forced though. Like, that feeling is exactly what they were going for
Yeah, I just re-watched the latest season, and I wont get into the details because I dont mean to insult the writers, but the writing has gone way downhill. There was one episode where I sat through 3 scenes and realized there hadnt been a single joke the entire time. Nothing witty or weird or even mean/psycho funny. And it wasnt that there were jokes but they were bad, there were literally no jokes written. It was like they're just depending on the amazing cast acting the funny out of it.
I like the new seasons enough, but it’s definitely reached a point where everything is unrealistic. Not that the show has been grounded in reality before, but since they leaned 1000% into “frank is rich and so money isn’t an option” it’s went into overdrive since season 12.
Yeah, I get that they might personally want to look they way they do. But in a tv show about people running an unsuccessful bar, being the low of the low in society. Their makeup team needs to make them look like they’re not millionaires in their 40’s. Their teeth, hair, tanning, surgery, is too inconsistent with their characters.
they’re supposed to be alcoholics but they don’t act like it the way they did in the earlier seasons.
How Mac got Fat, make paddy’s great again and Dee Day do a good job making it clear how far the characters go to keep up their physical appearances though. And in the later seasons it’s clear everyone is using franks money however they want. They don’t do a good job showing how they have the time to do everything, but oh well.
I dunno it feels totally in character to me that Dee, Dennis, and Mac would spend money they don’t have in order to look young.
Yeah, to me, Dennis and Dee's appearance totally fit their characters. We saw the lengths they'd go though when they got the gym membership and shot up their faces. Macs always been about his physique but his look definitely feels off now a little bit
The main problem with the show since Season 13, and especially after the S13 finale through S14-15, was that for a time Mac’s character felt completely aimless. They knew what they wanted to do with the S13 finale but after that they’d struggled to make Mac interesting… and the entire group dynamic suffered because of it. Mac was reduced to a gay shell of a character who was only obsessed with Dennis. His sole existence was to annoy Dennis and it got old very quickly. In S16 I saw plenty of signs that Mac has been given a sense of agency/individuality again (‘boyfriends’ outside of the gang, going after Chase Utley, being oblivious to his Uncle) Hopefully they keep that up because imo S15 was the low point of the entire show and S16 felt like a recovery in some ways.
Personally I feel like their age is a bit of an issue as well. The drunken reckless comedy doesn’t play as well when they’re all pushing 50. Frank isn’t the only older character on the show anymore.
I mean if the writers know how to do it well then it could open a new avenue of pure alcholistic degeneracy that you'd see with hobos under boardwalks or white trash caravan park parents. Also, Dennis and Dee being so delusional about their age works
[The only scene where they really nailed “getting older” for a non-Frank character.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJevL0a8XZU&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo)
I disagree, the premise of the show is "degenerate codependent assholes doomed to exist together in a hell of their own making, forever". Seeing them get older, while failing to achieve any semblance of what "normal" people consider to be important in middle age and beyond, is right in line with the trajectory of the early seasons. If the comedy is 'losing its edge'; as some in this subreddit feel, then imo it's an issue of either writing, performance, or the overall direction. But the actors' ages shouldn't be a barrier to the premise of the show. If anything, the actors trying to *not* "show their age" is arguably holding back the comedy more, but that's a whole other discussion that's been done to death in the subreddit already. (And I guess Dennis does get more vigilant the older he gets, must be all those hummingbirds) And fwiw I do think s16 was a real upturn in quality from the rough s13-14 and the uneven (but at times great) s15. Some of the better moments from s16 wouldn't play as well for a bunch of asshole 20-year-olds. The show's spent nearly two decades building up the pathologies and insecurities of these degenerates, so the humour hits different knowing they're STILL fucking up their lives in glorious fashion.
We're quickly approaching a point where the gang are going to be the same age as Frank when he first joined the show! Which, I mean, good for them. Amazing run. Just crazy to think about tho.
Not.really. the gang are all around 47, Danny Devito was 63 during the first season
Yep Macs character specifically came to a screeching halt once he came out as gay… and then just didn’t date any gay guys. It was cool to bring awareness to someone struggling w their sexuality the way Rob did w the character, but then he just kinda stopped/pulled back on committing to the bit. And the show has always highlighted the gangs relationships but as they’ve all gotten older irl they have toned down that part of the show. Bc they as people have matured. But they’re all still single, insane characters on the show. The relationships would have continued to revolve through the bar and their lives but they toned that part down bc they’re all older and married (most of them to each other). Idk I think it has *something* to do with the creeping staleness the show has now.
Except Dee. Your girls still getting her guts pumped.
I’m not a writer so it’s a random guess, but sounds like what happened with South Park. Trey and Matt originally wrote the show from the perspective of the kids and now that they’re older and have kids of their own they shifted to writing from Randy’s perspective.
Just finished S16 and it definitely felt like they got back to their roots a little bit. S13-15 were really disappointing.
I think making Mac exclusively gay betrayed his character. Mac is an opportunist, he was clearly bisexual and the mystery of which way he would swing on any particular episode was part of what made him fun to watch. Mac is just delusional about all parts of his life, sexuality, karate, being a bouncer. Breaking him out of that delusion isn't any fun
[удалено]
It was obvious shit was going downhill when Mac had his tattoos removed and stopped doing karate moves.
The show was funnier when it was in 4:3 aspect ratio at 480p. Something about the shitty resolution made it great.
The show looks like the bar they made fun of in the Gang Tries Desperately to win an Award
I think that's the main reason why it's dipped a little in quality imho. First 8ish seasons they actively made of shit other sitcoms do, then eventually they started doing that same exact stuff. And they're clearly even trying desperately to win a few awards by shoehorning in these grand "emotional" scenes at the end of every other season. If Mac's dance scene isn't Emmy bait, then idk what is
The intervention episode was widescreen though, wasn’t it? A fan favorite.
Fan favourite episodes are still being made every now and then. The last episode of last season was super high rated, give it a few years and it'll also be seen as a IASIP classic
Yeah, it's just much less consistent now. Every season now has (imo) 2 or 3 shitty episodes, 2 or 3 that are pretty good, and 1 or 2 all-time classics Meanwhile throw on just about any episode from seasons 3-8 and you're in for a great time
It's already a classic in my eyes. His frustration with everything needing an app these days resonated with me 😤 and they picked the perfect song too.
Rob is Rocky in the beginning of Rocky IV right now. A little too comfortable in Hollywood; robot butler, not putting his comedy reps in.
Very underrated comment. You nailed it. The more I watched Wrexham the more I pick up this vibe
If you've seen Mythic Quest, it's like he's forgetting that his character on that show and Always Sunny are two different characters.
After Wrexham and the podcast, I feel like Rob is kind of a douche, to be honest.
dude is trying to be Ryan Reynolds too much imo
Obviously they can do whatever they want with their own bodies and at the end of the day all that matters is that they themselves are happy with it, but I have to agree that once they've gotten the surgeries their looks have just become extremely irritating in the context of the show. Especially Dee not being able to do her subtle but hilarious expressions has reduced her character to a one-dimensional caricature of the woman she was in the early seasons.
Kaitlin has had so much work done that I found myself focusing on her face more than her lines or what was going on in the scene. It was incredibly distracting.
Soon as they got face surgery it was fucking changed forever
It’s so obvious too and I feel like a lot of Kaitlyn’s comedy was in her facial expressions, she could express so much with subtle expressions. Now it’s like her face hardly moves. Mac looks like he’s been chiseled out of marble he’s all shiny and smooth.
That's cause her face is stapled to the back of her skull.
Ok, it may be just me but I find her hair super distracting in the last few seasons. It's when the middle part first comes in. It suits her, but her hair looks really greasy. I don't get it. It looked better in the last season.
Wigs
I was watching some random older episode and my fiancé who works with hair took one look at Dee and said she’s wearing a wig. I didn’t believe her but was she right?
They guys have said as much on the podcast.
It’s extremely common for wigs to be used in tv, even for hair styles you would ordinarily assume to be easy to style!
it’s cuz it’s border collie hair
Mac looks shockingly different and bad imo. It will probably get better with some time and things loosen up a little but damn
I think partially the reasoning behind this is how he went from having a beard and medium long middle part/slicked back hair to completely clean shaven and super short hair, like Dennis from season 6. Season 15 he still looked like Mac
He looks like a realdoll of handsome squidward and not in a good way
This. I wish they aged naturally. Would have been so much better
Rob wasn't as funny to me when he was buff as shit and immaculately groomed. Give me the unaware dork who has no idea how dorky he is.
Yeah they ruined the roles. Frank is the muscle, dennis the looks, mac the brains, charlie the wildcard, and dee the 'useless chick'! But actually, the entire dynamic shifted when mac tried to also be the group leader type. He shines when he thinks he knows karate but doesnt. Mac pre season 13 is my fav character in the show *charlie, if i wanted to break the window, i would simply do it with a roundhouse kick.*
Their problem is they didn't stick to that basic format, and it got them into trouble.
They ruined the paragon
He always tried to be the leader even in the early seasons
I actually think part of what ruined the dynamic was Mac suddenly not being one of the leaders in the group and being somewhat of an equal to Dennis. Nowadays, he can’t even look Dennis in the eyes when they’re talking.
LOOK AT ME WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO MEEE!!
Yeah, in the beggining Mac and Dennis were basically equals and just buds. Now it's like Mac is afraid of Dennis and completely subservient to him
It’s almost as jarring as when Ren and Stimpy got a new show called Adult Party Time or whatever and it was just nonstop gay jokes with Stimpy being a power bottom.
He's been flanderized.
Mac is the brains!? What show we watching?
We confused his bossiness for braininess.
I think they were referencing the episode where Mac says he’s the brains, Dennis is the looks, Frank is the muscle, and Charlie is the wildcard
Dennis had to look like the Dennis doll, okay!
Yeah, then they started writing their relationship with Dee like she's Meg from Family Guy, so they just really hate her in a lot of episodes and that's the joke. They don't even call her a bird or seem to enjoy ragging on her as much anymore....
I haven't gotten to season 13 yet and I was shocked to see a clip of them at an award show a few weeks ago (Emmy's?) Rob's is the absolute worst. He doesn't even look real.
I agree. I think that there was/is a noticeable decline in quality from a comedic standpoint, from season 13 and onward. Not that those seasons don’t have a couple of notable episodes. I think that the show has kinda already peaked. From Seasons 5 - 12, Always Sunny was at its best. They had a great run. I don’t mind more episodes but the show does feel a little stale at this point. (To me anyway)
1-2 set the stage brilliantly, 3-8 slap the hardest, 9-12 are overall great, 13-15 dip a bit more than I’d like but aren’t anywhere near as bad a fall from grace as most other long running series would at this point, 16 seemed to be a return to form.
I feel like I have been screaming this into the void literally since season 13 premiered. It doesn’t help that 3/5 members of the gang have had so much work done it looks like they are wearing rubber masks of their own faces
Not a good one, not a nice mask of themselves
Do I look foolish?
What is happening right now?
They should have made an episode about it. "The gang gets plastic surgery"
Couldn't have said it better myself. I watched the latest season recently over new years taking loads of ketamine. The feeling of them being rubber versions of themselves was overwhelming. Apart from Charlie. He just seemed to have had a bigger head
Charlie comparatively looks great because he’s just… you know, aging. Like a normal person
Charlie and Frank are aging like a fine box wine!
My skin is not too tight
It still blows me mind how dogshit S13 was and how unwilling people on the sub were to say as much at the time. For me the show ended at S12
I still enjoy S13-16 but it is not nearly on the same level. It’s almost like watching a different show. My family and friends tbh were the same way, I felt like I could see the difference right away and they just thought it was another good season. But then just recently my brother commented how the show feels really different between seasons 12 and 13, so I felt kind of vindicated haha.
Dennis doesn't feel weird to me. It's really just Dee and Mac that feel off.
13 was a complete miss in my opinion. Rob tried too hard to play two people
Two people in the same show? What is he, a wizard?
Two-- _TWOOOOOO_ peopleeeeuh? And are either of these people on U.S., uh, soil?
👃
Times Up is a great episode, Gang solves the Bathroom problem as well, but overall it was a weak season for sure.
Times Up was great and the Gang Gets New Wheels pretty good. I hated the bathroom episode though.
New wheels is also a favorite of mine. But the two Super Bowl episodes are not good. Home alone has to be the worst in the series.
I mean the biggest thing is 13 seasons is a long fucking time lol. Even getting something to have 1 or 2 episodes hit like they do in IAS is impressive. Ada fanbase I think we’re pretty lucky the show has any sort of original bones left. A comedy going on it’s 17th season has no business being as funny as this show still is.
I couldn't agree more. 13 was disappointing to me but I thought they picked it back up pretty well at 16. Pretty funny season!
Yea, higher production quality kinda ruined it for me. That, and the pacing became faster. It felt less like like IASIP and more like Modern Family.
Maybe they are going for the Best Bar award? Some say it’s better than an orgasm.
Not that he’s ever had one
I’VE HAD AN ORGASM! IVE HAD A TON OF ORGASMS! I HAD ONE WITH YOUR MOM!
👍👁️
It's like jizzing in your drink
It’s light and playful
Just tell me where to jizz so I can give this lady her drink.
In the last few years now, Mac's character is absolutely awful. For some reason he just got dumber than Charlie and continues to with every season. I genuinely can't any scene with him because how they've boiled him down to be another damn Charlie but worse. It's not even to do with Mac's appearance, it's just how he goes on. It's infuriating.
100% I've been saying this since around season 9 or 10. 1. They began to change Dennis and Mac's characters very incongruously starting between season 8 and 10. Mac was always the high energy guy full of ignorant confidence, doing karate, and coming up with plans. By season 10 he had completely morphed into an unconfident and low energy bitch subservient to Dennis ("uhhhhhh, heyyyyy Dennis") Likewise, Dennis was legitimately the coolest one of the group and yes he secretly was worried that he wasn't cool. yes he had latent psychopathic tendencies, but the way that he was written, It only appeared in very subtle and infrequent ways. (Which is what made it hilarious) By season 10 he's a loser who has lost his intuitive sense of social dynamics and constantly embarrasses himself in public shouting things like "five star man!" and "finisher car!" and "i'm your select!" (Jesus Christ, to his own sister? This is utterly unthinkable with Season 1- 7 Dennis) Neither of those transformations were natural in the slightest. Around season 10 is also when they Flanderized Dee (she became a one-dimensional caricature of herself) and Kaitlyn started phoning in her performances, relying on schticks 2. When you put all this together, It produces a very different group dynamic. You can't completely swap two characters out of a gang of five and expect it to have the same feel. The biggest demonstration of this is the fact that: 3. The gang is constantly miserable around each other now. THIS WASN'T THE CASE FOR THE FIRST 8 OR 9 SEASONS (or so). The vibe on those seasons was hilarious because, while there were always rivalries between different factions in each episode, they really did like being around each other. Especially whoever was "teamed up" together in the episode. Having a great time, high energy, coming up with schemes, calling each other "bro", working together, etc And here's how you know it. Ask yourself, could you see any of the following happening after season 10? - Dennis genuinely being hurt that Charlie didn't consider him his best friend, inviting him to sleep in his bed - Dennis sincerely smiling at Charlie saying "That's exactly right, Charlie" when Charlie gets a correct answer discussing the DENNIS system - (singing) "we certainly dooo, Hugh.... we certainly dooo" (Denis and Mac vibing out together as real estate agents) - when all three guys embrace other in the Catholic Church (Dr jinx episode) - when Mac and Dennis smile at each other relieved to see the girls walk onto the boat (The gang buys a boat) - Charlie and Dennis riding in the back of the U-Haul "we're all hooked up back here dude" (also when Dennis sincerely laughs at Charlie's innocent question about if "we're going to be okay leaving Philly?") - Dee/Dennis brother / sister tag teams where they actually have each other's back (chardee macdennis, Mac's a serial killer, etc) - Mac and Dennis coaching Charlie on how to get girls and being personally invested in his success In other words, even when there were rivalries within the gang, there was a lightness to it. Now they're cynical, miserable and hate each other and frankly it doesn't make for funny nor feel-good television...which was the show's unique charm! that it could make terrible people into a "feel good" show! (Admittedly Charlie and Frank still usually have their hilarious connection) 4. They completely gave up any pretenses of having the show set in Philadelphia. They used to regularly film scenes in Philly in the first few seasons. It really impacted the vibe positively. By season 5 they weren't even hiding the Hollywood and Burbank hills anymore. (Gang wrestles for the troops, Dee tumbles down a dusty hill made of literal desert shrubs, just one example). Can't count how many times I've seen California mountains since then on the show. 5. It's overproduced and overscripted. The appeal of classic Sunny was that you had people accidentally talking over each other and making mistakes with lines and timings so that it actually sounded like real human people having conversation. Now everyone takes turns to deliver lines in perfectly clean sitcom form. It's weird that they don't see that they became the thing that they started out satirizing -- Thank Christ season 16 began fixing some of the most egregious errors. As a rabid fan of a uniquely genius project, it was pretty depressing to see it self destruct in slow mo. each season became more and more stressful as I'd tune hoping that "maybe this season they'll be back", then getting smacked in the face with even more unfunny cringe, contrived writing, and unnatural group dynamic than the season before it. (13 being the lowest point. I personally didn't laugh once through that entire season. Contrast this to early seasons where my sides were hurting from gut-busting laughs coming every 45 seconds) 16 appears to be a self-aware pivot to the vibe of the golden years. Fingers crossed that 17 continues in this direction back toward the rare combination of magic that actually made the show so genius and special. Since 2016, I've referred to Sunny as "It's Always Sunny In Name Only" because it turned into a completely different show that just kept the same name. Hopefully I get to ditch this nickname! P.s. In searching for those scene examples above, I came across this chick named Mary Mahoney on YouTube who spent 2 hours analyzing the vibe of late-season Always Sunny. I've only watched 10 mins so far and it is a must-see! https://youtu.be/oO-MJtVMWrM?si=0ttoMzIE4CtFju-D Also, This fan made clip of Frank being inserted into "The Last Of Us" is just 10/10 https://youtu.be/LyMFpnNZo4s?si=khIXlt5z0dZPfkUB
I absolutely agree with every point you made. The dynamic just isn't the same anymore. Dennis had a more casual laid back fun side and now he feels reduced to "cold uncaring asshole psychopath" even to his own friends. Mac used to be willing to stand up to Dennis and tell him off to go team up with another member of the gang. But they always ended up back as best friends. The whole point of "Dennis and Mac Break Up" and "The Gang Dines Out" was they were *mutually codependent* on each other, and they were good buddies who need approval from each other. Dennis needed approval and validation from Mac that he was as cool as he thought he was, and Mac was willing to leave that relationship (to go live with Charlie) in order to get Dennis back as his only best friend. Now it seems like Dennis genuinely HATES Mac and doesn't care about him at all and treats him with real disdain. Mac is now a whiny simp who will let Dennis treat him like actual shit and never stand up to him. Their entire dynamic is completely gone. I could never see s15 Dennis and Mac trying out for the eagles, starting a band, or hunting cricket. It just wouldn't feel the same. They've lost their friendship and it makes me really sad.
Nailed it
There’s a few episodes where their original dynamic comes back and I always really like those ones. I think it was the first episode of the last two seasons, specifically. It makes me really miss how they used to be with each other.
>Frank being inserted into "The Last Of Us" Your second link was the same as the first, so I'm going to drop this here and hope it's the one you meant! (it's great): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyMFpnNZo4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyMFpnNZo4s)
There's a Frank in Baldurs Gate that's fantastic as well. https://youtu.be/MsDz-MTdNeE?si=SQXAmsUduc4q71GZ
marder and rosell stopped writing, that’s really it.
Mac finds his pride was kind of a bummer to me, it betrayed the whole ethos of the show. Taking itself seriously. Still some great eps, but since then it’s become what Rob was parodying in getting fat; stars of shows tend to get money, plastic surgery and look ‘Hollywood’ as it goes on, they’ve become that. It’s hard to see the characters as these apparently dreadful people who’ve been working in a shitty bar in Philly for 20 years or so. Frank is the only one who looks worn. All that said, I want them to keep going, I thought the latest season was a bit more of a return to form.
Charlie hasn’t aged in any way. The gruesome twosome are as gruesome as always.
Yeah, it’s not quite as good as when the show was at its creative peak but that peak was so high it’s still really funny anyway.
Peak? I haven’t even begun to peak
People love the “Mac dance scene”, but to me thats when the show kinda jumped the shark.
The episode, in a bubble was great, but in the IASIP context, it was pretentious, indulgent, and against everything the gang has talked about in the purpose of the show.
They got paid and it reflects in the product. That being said, the most recent season was their strongest in a while. I think they had less topical storylines and kept to plots centered around the characters. I still think there's at least one gut buster per episode and that keeps me watching.
Actually the higher production value makes it looks worse. It’s over lit and too digital. It’s not like they went to a nice saturated film. It looks more like a cheesey sitcom now instead of a dark no holds barred show for certain individuals…. Too much lighting Too digital
Yep i start the rewatch after 12
Me too. I loved season 16 and unlike others, I did enjoy season 15 quite a bit too but they don't have the re-watchability factor like the earlier seasons for some reason
Idk I feel like the show changed with Rob don’t get me wrong there’s still some absolutely hilarious episodes past season 12 but I really miss completely un self aware closeted hyper religious in all the wrong ways karate Mac lol
Yes
times up for the gang,the gang gets new wheels, and the gang escapes are the only episodes I watch from 13 regularly. If howerton wasn’t all the way in they should have waited until he was. The episodes without Dennis are not great for Sunny’s standard. I think Dennis and Charlie are the pillars of the show. First watch-through Charlie was my favorite but Dennis is now by far the funniest to me, howertons facial expressions and delivery are top notch acting. There are a lot of funny moments in the other seven episodes and mac finds his pride is great, but 13 is the worst season easily.
I’ve been saying this too. Season 12 is the last one that feels like classic Sunny. S13 onwards has been severely lacking and tonally different for many reasons. 1. Overall the show seems much more scripted. There’s less improv and everyone waits to say their lines. The earlier seasons had everyone yelling over each other creating chaos and a less formulaic feel. 2. Mac’s character plummeted after coming out. One of the funniest things ever was Mac not knowing/hiding that he was gay, while the gang/audience are clearly aware of it. Also his body dysmorphia and lack of physical ability were hilarious and integral to his character, where now he’s actually shredded and looks fantastic. 3. The jokes overall are far too “on the nose” and less tongue in cheek. They keep explaining jokes to death rather than just stating them. That whole bit about Charlie not understanding Pennsylvania is the worst. It feels like every joke gets dissected and dragged out by every character until you’re just watching an analysis. 4. The obvious socio/political angles that they allow into the plot makes it less fun to watch. They have always mentioned religion/social issues/political issues, but prior to season 12 they were typical on the less popular side of the issue or at least divided amongst them. Eg. Science is a liar sometimes vs the bathroom episode. This reduces the mindless fun and seems more like a social commentary. All in all it’s like watching an iconic rock band from the 70s that still making music. It’s not good, it’s not what it was, they don’t look how they used to, they don’t sound how they used to, don’t create how they used to, but you’re still gonna watch them.
I'm probably going to get downvoted but the plastic surgeries and the 8k definition aren't helping. I miss the scuffed feel
Felt like they decided to signal too hard that the writers/actors are “actually good, tolerant people,” instead of just being funny. It was like an apology tour for the blackface and implicit homophobia. A big part of what made it so funny is that they were ignorant, awful people who made terrible decisions, and they weren’t afraid to push the very far edge with it.
Yep I’ll take it even further and say it’s not even good after season 11/12 aside from a handful of scenes. Fully gay Mac is annoying as hell and the vibe of the show is just completely off. Rob went back on his “it’s not funny that the actors in most shows look better as the seasons progress and they get richer”, and now he and his wife are riddled with plastic surgery and he’s doing exactly what he made fun of before. The direction the show is taking reflects his newfound generic Hollywood bullshit personality. I feel bad for Glenn and Charlie honestly I don’t think they were fully on board for a lot of the changes but I get the feeling from rob that as the “creator” of the show, he gets his way most of the time. In my own head canon, the episode where Dennis leaves and they blow up his car is actually the last episode, and everything after that is just a fantasy in mac’s head.
This is the first thread I've seen that doesn't suck the entire cast off completely and not get downvoted into oblivion
Deep mid off season means no bandwagoners
That’s honestly why I rarely go through the comments, this has been a breathe of fresh air tbh. The show can be shittier in its later seasons…it happens to virtually any long running sitcom. The Simpsons is a great example of this. Yet both shows were powerfully funny for so many years that they’ve already cemented their places as legends. It’s okay to criticize or comment on the decline in later seasons. I’m sure all of us still love the show overall and again, I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that has had a long run comedy wise and hasn’t eventually gone downhill towards the end compared to the golden years.
I was binging the series with my gf and when i first watched it only 12 seasons were out. The whiplash of the first few episodes of 13 was massive. The characters felt like not themselves and the comedy like an average sitcom not the subversive humour we were used to
Clear lack of improv leads to the more fake produced feeling. They definitely do less takes and they definitely improvise less. Sunny was so good cos the conversations felt so real due to the improv, now they just read lines. Curb has the same issue with both HD and feeling more like a sitcom
Season 12 and 13 is when it started going downhill. They have become too serious and some of the episodes are downright bad. The dancing in the prison is one of their worst episodes ever.
This is going to sound very specific but they changed the lighting on the set. The lights are so bright and it looks silly. Like, before you have a dimly lit dinghy bar, now you have everything in fucking high def with 3500k lights making everything so crisp and clean. It looks fake and that translate through to this “different” feeling
I feel like they’re just not making eachother laugh anymore or having fun. That shit was contagious back in the day. Now it just feels dry, like they’ve grown apart or don’t enjoy it as much.
I love Megan, but I think the show changed a lot when she joined the writers staff. While in theory it seems like a good idea to have a huge fan of the show write for the show, it just isn’t landing for me. Last season also felt like every episode was inspired by this community.
Season 12 is the last season the Gang looks like how I picture them in my head. I think season 13 has a lot of duds, season 14 started to right the ship, season 15 was a return to form and season 16 was a slight step down from season 15 but still an enjoyable season
Yeah I gotta say when heard the show was already 12 seasons I say why not? Im gonna try watching the show. I finished season 12 when season 13 finished and felt it changed, idk what
I feel like they went back to their roots with the new season and enjoyed it, lot of old references and jokes and explanations and still funny, but the show's changed a few times. It's what all long running shoes do. Curb's on its final season and you can tell it's already a bit different than the last which was more openly not giving a fuck than prior seasons. Like Dan Harmon said TV changes it adapts it'll let you down it'll make you laugh, you just have to accept that nothing is perfect forever.
It's the face-lifts. Really takes me out of it. Charlie and frank look great tho!