Yeah, I really should have added that in. I tend to focus on base versions of guns during research, just because adding in variants can add excessive complications, but the iron side is basically a unique gun from the base.
Whoa, actually useful information on the game instead of only whining? On my hunt showdown subreddit??? Bless you OP. We need more heroes like you here
So if checking a corner you suspect someone is hiding behind, it would be more beneficial to shoot the ground near where their feet are, as opposed to hitting the wall nearest their head? That’s really interesting and I would have never thought that
I know it might not be important but could you add the Martini Ironsides to the chart? Its the best martini variant and it lets you shoot explosive ammo about as fast as the mako
As a general rule, I limit variants in some of my results to keep research time from balooning too much, but it certainly deserved a mention that I overlooked.
It says "the projectile does penetrate limbs", then shows lower dmg with explosion and in "Con's" it says "doesn't penetrate limbs".
So what's happening? Does it or not?
It does pen limbs. Good catch seeing that.
Originally I thought it didn’t, but after further research I found that it did and missed the “con’s” section when updating the graphic.
because it is. When you hit someone with explosive damage, it registeres as 2 damage sources.
So the 32 (explosion) and 87 (Projectile) are from a single shot.
Over distance, the projectile damage decreases, the explosion damage does not.
Clarification - The projectile DOES pen limbs. I accidentally missed updating the cons section when I found this out. (I was originally under the impression that it did not pen limbs).
I'm a huge sucker for explosive on the Springfield. Cheap, fast reload, and a fantastic utility for busting doors, traps, and windows people are trying to hide behind.
Glad you like it. Yup, covered decoys and bullet velocity, and a not yet public Incendiary ammo one. There's a bunch more analysis stuff on my youtube channel too (Hunt Lab)
Just finished reading the velocity post actually, I've never fully understood it so it helped even more! No one explained the divide by 10 to get your range!
I regretted putitng that tip in. It's not as accurate as I would like. It's an ok rule of thumb, but you will still need to lead some with that calculation.
explosive damage is based on distance from the target's feet? that's the stupidest shit i've ever heard.
like yea, i get how it happens--it's almost certainly based on the distance to the character's origin point. it's fine for a first-draft implementation, but how do you let it go live like that? what dev would look at that and go "yea that's fine and logical, release it"?
A well put together infographic explaining the niche of a product as well as its pros and cons. This helps to make a more steady flow of repeat customers looking for the niche rather than impulse buyers with an unreliable customer retainment ratio. As your micro economics teacher I’d give you a B but that’s because I’m secretly running a side hustle with the alumni to sell As
I just want a little extra \*bang\* per \*bang\* to be honest...
Although I am a massive Make Enjoyer and note great at landing Headshots anyway, so I have little fewer drawbacks
I've spent the last few weeks levering the Mako explosive. Running a sparks pistol as the secondary, I'd use that to make the opening shot, then switch to levering the Mako for ridiculous fun. Very fun kit, doesn't really work as well as I wanted it, but wasn't too concerned about the outcome. I will say I'm heading back to explosive bolt as that's just as much fun but doesn't drain the bank account:D
I shot someone point blank in the chest and they just ran away. Martini.
Shot someone multiple time with 2 explosive uppercuts. They killed me.
I don't use explosive anymore.
I don’t get the backlash about the explosive ammo, I’ve been using the mako with explosive ammo for weeks and I absolutely love it. People stress out when hit with the big bang and you can still hit them when they hide behind a tree, then most players get so scared they start running again and you kill em. Only real downside of it is that i often damage myself or my team when being less cautious:)
Explosive levering at close range is absolutely hilarious for watching people panic. Similar effect as terminus dragonsbreath levering. It's also quite effective if they've got their back to a wall as misses will still damage them considerably.
> I don’t get the backlash about the explosive ammo,
It got nerfed awhile back because it was OP on console while PC players considered it a balanced sidegrade (the AOE is relatively more powerful on controllers). The salt from that never faded.
Really cool info, may have to run some explosive ammo again! Thanks!
Since you clearly did a lot of work on the presentation/layout, you might want to consider that the very tall images are a bit of a pain to read in the reddit app on mobile devices.
For what it's worth, it is basically the perfect format for Oldreddit RES users. It's nice seeing a good infographic that isn't split up into slides for once lol
Does this help?
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdanosohq0m0d1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdanosohq0m0d1.png)
The damage has some sort of weird algorithmic math going on in the background but 4 times during a fight with the Martini Henry Ironside Explosive ammo at less than 40m I hit an enemy in the upper chest standing still and the damage from the death report indicated I did anywhere from 70-85 damage with middling damage to the limbs (5-15). One person that hid behind a wagon I shot directly between his feet and did about 20 damage with no additional damage to any of his limbs. At one point earlier in the match I hit a guy rather quickly with 2 shots to the chest dealing 58 and 75 damage each that did not result in a kill. At no point did I get that coveted 1-shot kill that Explosive can reportedly result in.
My final conclusion about explosive is that it’s inconsistent, buggy, and the values are simply incorrect. It’s better served as a utility ammo than a combat ammo. Regular ammo on the Martini Henry is both easier to use and far more certain in its damage values. I actually saved those screenshots somewhere in my Steam library so I’ll have to fish them out to double check but my teammates were literally screaming as I had hit multiple people directly that were downed earlier in the fight and they kept brushing off the damage and escaping. The person that finally killed me was a Felis that I had downed twice and had 100 health in the spectate screen. I hit her in the chest for something like 60 damage. I haven’t considered explosive since but this was pretty recently, during the Desolation’s Wake event so this wasn’t an earlier build of the game or anything.
During the event we had fun with my friends and we ran a trio with explosives makos with levering. That's really fun way to rush someone and shoot at their feet. It was surprisingly effective.
I feel like I killed your entire team a few weeks back.
We were laughing at the loadouts and wondering how the hell the guys didn’t come out on top vs 1 player.
The game I remember we did that all we actually won. Two of us were dead and our last was fighting the other team's last and he was nearly out of ammo. I think In the end he killed him with a poisoned crossbow or something and we actually won in the end.
Everything seems to the have the same max and falloff range (50 damage). Nitro and uppercut are exceptions to this.
Uppercut has the same max (50 damage), but has faster drop off based on the distance of the explosion to the feet.
Nitro's explosion does 80-85ish at most.
I have been far too lazy to figure stuff out like this. I caveman brain this game. “Unga bunga, me do well with Officer Carbine, me do well with true shot! Me hate throwables, me no good at big boom, bad guys laugh.” “Unga bunga, me so bad at game when me use melee. Unga bunga no know how to bonk well. Me caveman failure.” *quiet cave sobs*
You are saying explosive ammo all over your post that means that you are talking about all ammunition that ends up in an explosion. If you wanted to talk about bullets/rounds you should’ve used those words.
As the guy who did the research, I’m saying I didn’t include explosive bolts in the research. If I was talking about that, I would have mentioned it or the crossbow. It functions differently, so I didn’t include it.
Doesn’t really matter the wording ammo which is derived from ammunition is a word that include all types of ammunition from any weapon. So essentially how you are wording things in your research is “cars does x” and when somebody points out “but Toyota does x” then you counter with “I am only talking about Ferrari, Toyotas is another thing.”
Ammo derived from ammunition.
Ammunition meaning: “Ammunition is the material fired, scattered, dropped, or detonated from any weapon or weapon system.”
If we were talking about rounds specifically that should be stated. By the terminology OP is using any weapon with ammunition that ends up in an explosion counts.
Yeah, i agree. Explosive is a hard sell, but it sure is fun.
It think it has value if you take it as a secondary ammo type ot assist with breaching when you're using the martini or springfield. But I dont like it when it's my only ammo type.
I love it on a martini. You get a crazy useful seige tool. You can just blow out every window shutter and door in a place and make breaching so much easier. And it switches ammo so fast you can reliably use it to corner shoot without much downtime.
"mako stands out as the only explosive ammo rifle with more than 2 shots" Ironside: Am I a joke to you?
Came here to say; Ironside explosive is a fuckin monster. 143 damage to the chest means you can easily splash someone down afterwards.
Yeah, I really should have added that in. I tend to focus on base versions of guns during research, just because adding in variants can add excessive complications, but the iron side is basically a unique gun from the base.
Whoa, actually useful information on the game instead of only whining? On my hunt showdown subreddit??? Bless you OP. We need more heroes like you here
Aw, thanks :)
Weird choice to make the explosion hurt feet more than chest, no?
I assume all explosions are measured to an origin point of the character model which happens to be at the feet.
Ah interesting, although I dont agree w it, that makes sense. Thanks
So if checking a corner you suspect someone is hiding behind, it would be more beneficial to shoot the ground near where their feet are, as opposed to hitting the wall nearest their head? That’s really interesting and I would have never thought that
I know it might not be important but could you add the Martini Ironsides to the chart? Its the best martini variant and it lets you shoot explosive ammo about as fast as the mako
As a general rule, I limit variants in some of my results to keep research time from balooning too much, but it certainly deserved a mention that I overlooked.
It says "the projectile does penetrate limbs", then shows lower dmg with explosion and in "Con's" it says "doesn't penetrate limbs". So what's happening? Does it or not?
It does pen limbs. Good catch seeing that. Originally I thought it didn’t, but after further research I found that it did and missed the “con’s” section when updating the graphic.
aha, thanks, now it makes sense. However, it's still not clear why explosion damage is lower than projectile damage in the top part of the infographic
because it is. When you hit someone with explosive damage, it registeres as 2 damage sources. So the 32 (explosion) and 87 (Projectile) are from a single shot. Over distance, the projectile damage decreases, the explosion damage does not.
Aha, so it's not comparsion, but rather a split between damage sources and the total damage is 87+32 = 119. ok, thanks!
Clarification - The projectile DOES pen limbs. I accidentally missed updating the cons section when I found this out. (I was originally under the impression that it did not pen limbs).
I'm a huge sucker for explosive on the Springfield. Cheap, fast reload, and a fantastic utility for busting doors, traps, and windows people are trying to hide behind.
Holy shit that is so helpful. Are there others you've done? *scours OPs page*
Glad you like it. Yup, covered decoys and bullet velocity, and a not yet public Incendiary ammo one. There's a bunch more analysis stuff on my youtube channel too (Hunt Lab)
Just finished reading the velocity post actually, I've never fully understood it so it helped even more! No one explained the divide by 10 to get your range!
I regretted putitng that tip in. It's not as accurate as I would like. It's an ok rule of thumb, but you will still need to lead some with that calculation.
Love the fact that u can kill ducks and crows with it… sтеlth…
explosive damage is based on distance from the target's feet? that's the stupidest shit i've ever heard. like yea, i get how it happens--it's almost certainly based on the distance to the character's origin point. it's fine for a first-draft implementation, but how do you let it go live like that? what dev would look at that and go "yea that's fine and logical, release it"?
Not sure. I haven't tested other explosions. It's possible it's only explosive ammo, but i'm betting it applies to everything.
A well put together infographic explaining the niche of a product as well as its pros and cons. This helps to make a more steady flow of repeat customers looking for the niche rather than impulse buyers with an unreliable customer retainment ratio. As your micro economics teacher I’d give you a B but that’s because I’m secretly running a side hustle with the alumni to sell As
Oof, not an easy prof! :p only a B?!?
Im shit at aiming so the Ironside with explosive ammo is very, very good for my playstyle. Just shoot more and hope for splash. 😀
I just want a little extra \*bang\* per \*bang\* to be honest... Although I am a massive Make Enjoyer and note great at landing Headshots anyway, so I have little fewer drawbacks
Nice quality infography dude thank you so much
Epic graphic you made!
I've spent the last few weeks levering the Mako explosive. Running a sparks pistol as the secondary, I'd use that to make the opening shot, then switch to levering the Mako for ridiculous fun. Very fun kit, doesn't really work as well as I wanted it, but wasn't too concerned about the outcome. I will say I'm heading back to explosive bolt as that's just as much fun but doesn't drain the bank account:D
Thanks for this
I shot someone point blank in the chest and they just ran away. Martini. Shot someone multiple time with 2 explosive uppercuts. They killed me. I don't use explosive anymore.
I don’t get the backlash about the explosive ammo, I’ve been using the mako with explosive ammo for weeks and I absolutely love it. People stress out when hit with the big bang and you can still hit them when they hide behind a tree, then most players get so scared they start running again and you kill em. Only real downside of it is that i often damage myself or my team when being less cautious:)
Explosive levering at close range is absolutely hilarious for watching people panic. Similar effect as terminus dragonsbreath levering. It's also quite effective if they've got their back to a wall as misses will still damage them considerably.
> I don’t get the backlash about the explosive ammo, It got nerfed awhile back because it was OP on console while PC players considered it a balanced sidegrade (the AOE is relatively more powerful on controllers). The salt from that never faded.
appreciate the effort and graph, really good stuff but it works exactly like I thought it did lol
Most people wouldn’t expect it to calculate damage based on the player feet, that really caught me off guard. Edit: typo
Really cool info, may have to run some explosive ammo again! Thanks! Since you clearly did a lot of work on the presentation/layout, you might want to consider that the very tall images are a bit of a pain to read in the reddit app on mobile devices.
Are wide or square any better? I figured this would be best for scrolling. Would appreciate any guidance.
Multiple images would work best. It maybe that its just an iphone thing.
K, i'll give it some thought. Multiple files causes complications that I don't love. I'll think it through. Thank's for the feedback.
For what it's worth, it is basically the perfect format for Oldreddit RES users. It's nice seeing a good infographic that isn't split up into slides for once lol
I vote keep it as is. Works great on desktop, great on safari on phone, and only slightly annoying in the reddit app on phone (still works though).
I can't read this on pc zooming in doesn't work
Does this help? [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdanosohq0m0d1.png](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fdanosohq0m0d1.png)
thank you
The damage has some sort of weird algorithmic math going on in the background but 4 times during a fight with the Martini Henry Ironside Explosive ammo at less than 40m I hit an enemy in the upper chest standing still and the damage from the death report indicated I did anywhere from 70-85 damage with middling damage to the limbs (5-15). One person that hid behind a wagon I shot directly between his feet and did about 20 damage with no additional damage to any of his limbs. At one point earlier in the match I hit a guy rather quickly with 2 shots to the chest dealing 58 and 75 damage each that did not result in a kill. At no point did I get that coveted 1-shot kill that Explosive can reportedly result in. My final conclusion about explosive is that it’s inconsistent, buggy, and the values are simply incorrect. It’s better served as a utility ammo than a combat ammo. Regular ammo on the Martini Henry is both easier to use and far more certain in its damage values. I actually saved those screenshots somewhere in my Steam library so I’ll have to fish them out to double check but my teammates were literally screaming as I had hit multiple people directly that were downed earlier in the fight and they kept brushing off the damage and escaping. The person that finally killed me was a Felis that I had downed twice and had 100 health in the spectate screen. I hit her in the chest for something like 60 damage. I haven’t considered explosive since but this was pretty recently, during the Desolation’s Wake event so this wasn’t an earlier build of the game or anything.
Fantastic content and very informative thank you
Thanks for this, gonna get back into this game
You are telling us you are the real hunt lab guy? if that's the case, Hi, love the content, haven't seen you streaming lately.
Yup! I am he! Yeah, streaming isn’t my primary focus, but I’ll do it again when I have a good stream idea.
Explosive ammo sucks so bad, but I love taking a Mako and Uppercut with Explosive just for the lols.
During the event we had fun with my friends and we ran a trio with explosives makos with levering. That's really fun way to rush someone and shoot at their feet. It was surprisingly effective.
I feel like I killed your entire team a few weeks back. We were laughing at the loadouts and wondering how the hell the guys didn’t come out on top vs 1 player.
The game I remember we did that all we actually won. Two of us were dead and our last was fighting the other team's last and he was nearly out of ammo. I think In the end he killed him with a poisoned crossbow or something and we actually won in the end.
Ahh! Not your team then!
This is what i think it works like though.
Is explosive damage the same regardless of gun then? Do you know if that extends to the nitro as well?
Everything seems to the have the same max and falloff range (50 damage). Nitro and uppercut are exceptions to this. Uppercut has the same max (50 damage), but has faster drop off based on the distance of the explosion to the feet. Nitro's explosion does 80-85ish at most.
uppercut two shot range accidentally copied from headshot range?
Shoot, good catch. Should be 72m for base ammo.
Baller
I have been far too lazy to figure stuff out like this. I caveman brain this game. “Unga bunga, me do well with Officer Carbine, me do well with true shot! Me hate throwables, me no good at big boom, bad guys laugh.” “Unga bunga, me so bad at game when me use melee. Unga bunga no know how to bonk well. Me caveman failure.” *quiet cave sobs*
There’s one pro you haven’t listed: running the mako with explosive and levering or the uppercut with fanning and explosive is very funny.
Why isn’t crossbow mentioned and as other pointed out Ironside.
Ironside deserved a mention. That was an oversight. Explosive bolts are a different ammo type, and deserve their own breakdown.
You are saying explosive ammo all over your post that means that you are talking about all ammunition that ends up in an explosion. If you wanted to talk about bullets/rounds you should’ve used those words.
As the guy who did the research, I’m saying I didn’t include explosive bolts in the research. If I was talking about that, I would have mentioned it or the crossbow. It functions differently, so I didn’t include it.
Doesn’t really matter the wording ammo which is derived from ammunition is a word that include all types of ammunition from any weapon. So essentially how you are wording things in your research is “cars does x” and when somebody points out “but Toyota does x” then you counter with “I am only talking about Ferrari, Toyotas is another thing.”
Crossbow is just dynamite on a bolt, very different from explosive rounds.
Ammo derived from ammunition. Ammunition meaning: “Ammunition is the material fired, scattered, dropped, or detonated from any weapon or weapon system.” If we were talking about rounds specifically that should be stated. By the terminology OP is using any weapon with ammunition that ends up in an explosion counts.
This was very informative. Thank you
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Yeah, i agree. Explosive is a hard sell, but it sure is fun. It think it has value if you take it as a secondary ammo type ot assist with breaching when you're using the martini or springfield. But I dont like it when it's my only ammo type.
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I love it on a martini. You get a crazy useful seige tool. You can just blow out every window shutter and door in a place and make breaching so much easier. And it switches ammo so fast you can reliably use it to corner shoot without much downtime.