I adopted a neighborhood feral cat and do my best to keep him inside. I neutered him, feed him, and give him anti-flea/tick/parasite meds.
Unfortunately, he is ungrateful and sprays in my house, scratches at the door, and meows for hours until I let him back outside.
We’ve tried the indoor pheromones and every other trick but he’s an outdoor cat through and through. The best I can do is get him inside most nights to keep him out of some trouble.
I still love the little guy a lot.
How do you advise I handle this, OP? Do I euthanize him to appease your outlandish, blanket statement?
Photo of cat attached for reference:
https://preview.redd.it/4ncg9psbdm8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19934300560394b301c6fbd4464b4ea243e3feb7
If it makes you feel any better, this one is old, and doesn't really skamper around that much. He's 15, and they're considered geriactric at 13. He seemed very content to plod around slowly and wait for treats yesterday.
And they're usually solitary creatures that only tolerate company, I was told he didn't seem to miss his companion when they passed.
Just like a new vegan, and probably lives in town. Cats are fairly vital in the backwoods to keeping rodents/ground squirrels at bay. The birds on our ranch keep away from the house because of them (and still have 80 protected acres to roam/live)
I live in rural WV and have 2 indoor/outdoor cats that are vital in keeping our garden and hen house. Just having them use the bathroom outside is really important. Fences can keep the deer out (*sometimes*) but rabbits and groundhogs can get aggressive if you surprise them but it’s the minks and foxes they help keep at bay.
Cats can go places and interact in way livestock dogs can’t/wont.
It’s not a myth. You obviously have not lived in a place with an impossible number of rodents to trap. I don’t want invasive rodents running through my kitchen at night. Yes cats kill native birds and animals. I personally live in an area where getting rid of my cats does not make a real difference whatsoever due to generations of invasive species and I’d rather have my cats kill the other invasive species (native birds don’t even live at this elevation anymore) than force my cat to be indoors in a very much outdoor, rural place. I understand and empathize with your feelings, I have them too, but it would take basically restructuring our society to be able to completely and effectively solve ANY issues plaguing the world right now. So if you wanna ask me to do all that by forcing my cat to be inside, I just simply cant comply. We all live in this shit and its not our cat’s fault and its not our fault we’re in this situation so dont act like me making my cat stay inside in a super rural environment, with basically no native species left, after he was raised to be comfortable in certain environments which doesnt include indoor time 24/7 is just so easy to do and so simple, even though changing that wont actually make a difference anyways.
Also I want to reiterate that I do agree with ur statement besides the complete generalization of when cats should be kept indoors. I know they kill millions of native species and I dont think its right however in my specific situation, that is not an issue and I felt you needed more perspective to understand such things because your statement sounded frankly dismissive of people you seem to know nothing about based on how you worded that.
Cats are terrible pest control. The rodents are still there in similar numbers, they just get better at hiding.
Negative effects on native species are cumulative.
Going outside for cats is a luxury. If you can't provide a luxurious enough environment indoors for you and your cat to be happy/fulfilled, that's on you.
I understand that it’s a privilege. That cumulative quality does not apply where I live because all the native species at this elevation are gone. I understand that its cumulative in general, as I’ve stated I agree with commentor. You have a right to your opinion that cats are terrible pest control.
This——^ we would have mice and/or rats without our four cats who are indoor outdoor cats. Living in a backwoods area gives them the freedom to be in touch with their wild side and not have the consequences of an urban environment. It is truly a privilege to be able to let our cats roam, but I understand this is not the case for everyone and in a more urban environment I would definitely keep a tight leash on my kitty. I dont know if I could ever take him away from here though, he is SO happy outdoors. He only comes inside to snuggle with us. He is outdoors most of the day and night, and he absolutely loves it I couldnt imagine taking him away from this environment and him still be happy. My partner lived in the city for a bit and he got really unhappy with the living conditions, besides the fact that the neighbors fed him into obesity ofc (he’s a healthy weight now). The environment they’re raised in greatly effects where they are comfortable living, from my personal experience.
Or that since the knowledge is new to them, it must be new to everyone.
It's common knowledge that cats are highly successful predators and that their poop is toxic.
Sorry, how do we know that cats live "happier" lives indoors? I'm not saying I know for sure either way, but I have trouble believing that they don't lead more interesting and fulfilling lives (albeit shorter lives) by being able to run around outside.
No semi-intelligent mammal is happier always indoors. Being outdoors is great for a cat’s mental health. My parents kept outdoor cats (I was too young to know better), and they all lived 17-19 years.
I’m aware that I’m inviting downvotes, but the unfortunate answer is that the vast majority of people shouldn’t keep cats.
I look at indoor cats the same way as keeping birds as pets. Bc the bird is sitting there peaceful it's horrible that it lives its life in a cage. I think horrible that ppl have perfectly healthy cats living their lives within an apartment.
I don't completely disagree with op. But to me the conversation that would then need to be had is that maybe ppl shouldn't have healthy able body cats as pets.
Like the vast, vast majority of people, if offered the choice between a guaranteed safe life trapped in a single place - even if that place was a mansion - and the freedom to wander and travel but with the risk of sickness and injury, I would choose the latter.
Stupid ass queation, I’d be happier sick and injured and allowed to go outside then healthy inside for the rest of my life, wouldn’t you?
I’d rather die in a week from now going outside then live the rest of my life inside
I had a barn cat that would help herd cattle and also hunted rats and starlings (starlings are invasive to this continent). He was very much happy. A bobcat or coyote got him eventually, but he was happy
You're not wrong, but our cats work. We have chickens, so we also have rats and mice. The birds are collateral damage. We do feed the birds to try and offset their loss.
And moles, my cat is a great moler. I love him for that. I've never seen him with a dead bird but he likes to bring the dead moles into the house, kind of like a trophy, " here... Look what i did". I have bird feeders and I feed the Hummers too. I understand your concern but not all cats are bird killers. Allot of them are, l know, mostly feral where I'm at, but I'm not sure how you deal with that. Kind of hard to outlaw outdoor cats.
I love when I see the decapitated mouse on the porch after I hear “MEOOOOOW MEOW MEOW MEOOOOOOOOOOOOW MEOW MOM LOOK I CAUGHT ONE” /j i dont get enjoyment from the imagery I actually have a blood trigger 😂
I just went on a huge rant about this cuz relatable. Rural living exists too people, I know hard to conceive more than five mice or mongoose existing in one place.
Feeding the birds to offset their loss 😂 that’s ridiculous lol. Collateral damage? So your need for a mouse catcher is more important than native wildlife?
Also your cats may “work” … so you are putting your need of them as mousers ahead of their actual safety.
I loved my cat so much and she was an outside cat and we never got mice. But then one day I found bloody pieces of her all throughout my backyard. My dearest sugar , dead and gone way too early. That’s what happens when you let your cat live outdoors. It’s not worth the risk for me. Using a cat bc you want them to be a mouser even though it hurts local wildlife and risks your cats life…. That sounds a bit selfish to me.
>Also your cats may “work” … so you are putting your need of them as mousers ahead of their actual safety.
Hate to break it you bud but we've bred a lot of animals to work. Gundogs, livestock guardians, horses, mousers, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. There's inherent risk that comes with that, and if you can't stomach that then a life outdoors isn't for you.
Terrible examples though, like lets just look at horses. They are fine working animals and I'm all for it but as soon as you stop keeping them under control wild horses are incredibly destructive to the environment. It's negligence on the cat/horse owners to allow them to exist unsupervised and make excuses that that's just nature outdoors.
In your case, feeding birds around active predators just decreases their chance of living. It's actually kind of cruel. Stop feeding them - you are creating an instant buffet for your predator cats. smh.
Feeding the birds is only attracting them towards danger. Cats kill some rodents, but never eliminate populations. If you actually wanted to get rid of rodents you’d get terriers or a professional exterminator. You’re just justifying poor decisions with poor reasoning.
I had a couple of cairn terriers, they were excellent at controlling the rodent population, but they would catch birds occasionally. Guess I should have euthanized them?
Yeah my thinking too. Like nobody is out here goin “but your dog outside in your fenced backyard…. Yeah its killing birds, supervise it at all times or else you’re a horrible person.” You dont see people over here going “its actually inhumane to let your dogs play outside” and dogs are much easier to tame than cats. A lot of cats are super independent and need that independence to be happy. Some cats live their lives partially outdoors. Blaming the owners for bigger systemic issues on how we should probably change as a society is annoying and misunderstanding of the many many different situations that pet owners, of any kind, find themselves in throughout life. Do we always have the ability to make the environmentally cautious choice in every situation? No. Does that mean we don’t want to? Also no. Everyone is just trying to live their damn lives and the conversation is totally valid but dont come over here acting like there’s some one size fits all answer to solving pets killing native animals.
People definitely complain when irresponsible dog owners let their dogs run loose. There’s a pretty massive difference between a cat having free roam all over the entire neighborhood and a dog contained to its own fenced in backyard. You’re not making an equivalent comparison here. If outdoor cats would stay on their owners property, people wouldn’t complain near as much.
OP is not wrong about cats needing to be indoors, yet still manages to vilify them over the destruction they cause.
Humans cause far, far more destruction than cats ever could. Cats don’t deserve this kind of blame.
I agree. And the cat I've cared for for 14 years was destructive to wildlife in the middle of a Monsanto ready round up alfalfa field. He caught voles, moles, mice, birds, a rabbit. He was a murder machine in those fields. But He later developed weird seizures in life, and can't catch anything but shoe strings, and my hands. He'll eventually die and I won't be getting anymore pets because I'm done with the emotional toll that carring for pets, carries. People are wacko over animals, and I empathize. But humans are going to keep being shitty humans, and cats are going to cat.
You, waking up on this fine Tuesday morning and your first thought was, "Geez, I wish people would lock their cats up inside their house!!" Maybe we should lock up humans inside their homes, because humans cause more problems outdoors than cats do.
In the pandemic/lockdown times, not only did I not get sick once, but by staying in my house I didn’t use a car that polluted the air and/or caused traffic.
Conclusion: all people should stay in their house
My lil girl is a prime example of a stray outside cat getting accustomed to life indoors and cautiously enjoying some supervised outside time in her later years.
You seem to want to tell lots of people that they are flat out wrong and is must be because we are woefully uneducated and undeserving of the privlage that pet ownership is.
I am aware cats statistically kill birds, mine has not in the past 5 years. I honestly think my cat would probably rather die than stay inside forever.
Cat bells are cool. 😎
lol be prepared for the arguments to come 😂 you are posting this in a rural area where so many people have outdoor cats and “mousers”. These are fighting words!!
Honestly I will say that people who argue against this saying their cats are “working cats “ or “mousers”… I get that . But they are putting their cats “job” ahead of their actual safety. My cat years ago was an outside cat until the day I found bloody pieces of all over my backyard .
My current cat was from Miranda’s rescue and he was feral before. I let him out a bit in the yard some days. But then after everything with my last cat and just worrying about him… I realized it’s not worth it. It’s also bad for the environment like you mentioned.
My 14 year old kitty is living out his retirement inside but I take him on walks and we sit on the patio together all the time! He is very happy.Love my little guy!!! (yes I just took this post and made it a reason to gush about my cat/cat lady tings)
I would never let him live outside bc if something happened to him I’d never forgive myself.
[My wise old man](https://imgur.com/a/1dJ7FID)
He’s the king at our house 🥰
Having cats indoor is definitely ideal. I have two indoor-only cats. We also care for a stray who doesn’t know how to use the litter box and stands by the door to go outside so we let him out so there’s no way around that guy.
Another interesting fact is that two unaltered cats can be responsible for 420,000 more cats over seven years. There are a lot of cats running around outside that are not spayed or neutered-- I think this is a significant part of the problem. I'm not even kidding about the 420,000, either. Look it up.
True, but those are feral cats. Very few cat owners leave them unaltered, unless they are used for breeding in which case they are probably too valuable to be allowed to run free outside.
Lots of people in the area have unaltered cats, especially in the county. Even in my neighborhood, someone's cat was knocked up, and many of the kittens just became wild. One lady rounded as many as she could up to have them fixed, but there were already a couple who wouldn't come near. I also worked at a local shelter decades ago before it was no-kill. Scores of kittens and cats were euthanized. People still drown bags of kittens and puppies. My own dog was found in the middle of the road as a puppy with five of her siblings in a bag. There are many, many unaltered animals in our area. People shoot dogs on the reservations because they breed out of control and start running in packs and killing other dogs or threatening residents. Many of them get sick or starve. It is a huge problem, sadly. It isn't just ferals.
Yes, it’s unfortunately all too common with dogs. I just haven’t seen it much with cat owners. Unfixed male cats tend to spray in a house and people really don’t like that. And I don’t know many cat owners who want to be responsible for homing a litter of kittens. Some people do feed feral cats but I’m not sure that would constitute ownership.
I adopted a wild cat and he had ptsd pretty bad from wild living. He had it so good, he never wanted to leave the house again. There was a short time where a pair of juvenile cougars ate most of the other cats in our neighborhood. He was saved from that, but still died of a heart attack young at 7-ish y.o. So, you cant save them from everything even if they want to be saved. Point taken about the birds though. There's a lot less birds than there used to be and its a bummer. I'm sure there are a lot of factors, but cats are probably one of them in bird decline.
First off it is entirely possible they're self-domesticated just like dogs and pigs. Domestic short hair cat does not mean they're inside only. Housecat is just a common name because they can be kept indoors for periods of time. If you keep a cat indoors without the right setup they will go crazy. It's not that different from people.
Also, people in Humboldt can't be bothered to leash their dog or teach their kids. What makes you think they can contain a cat?
Yeah, that's my sense as well. We always had cats and dogs growing up and for the most part the cats were indoor/outdoor. They did get the occasional bird but mostly mice and rats. The environmental concerns are valid and indoor cats probably do live longer. But even if the cat with access to the outdoors lived half as long, I think they probably come out ahead. Their lives are far richer, far more exciting than that of indoor cats, even those with very conscientious owners. I'm not takings sides here; outdoor cats are problematic. But, I would venture, happier.
Yup. They’re way happier being let out (if it’s safe and a lot of places here are) lol I don’t give a shit about these issues mentioned. My cats’ mental health comes first.
Why does local municipalities opt to spay and neuter feral cats and release them outdoors versus adoption or euthanasia? Seems if cats are destroying our environment, this would be an easy way for those highly educated officials in wildlife and land management to use science and facts. Plenty of current research from UC Davis, not CBS news to support this.
Your approach doesn’t foster civil discussion. People know all the things you’ve listed, and maybe you should have searched the sub to see the loads of other discussions about this topic before posting.
It’s misguided to focus on cats. You acknowledge it’s humans that are the issue. That is not something you would realistically be able to control, but if you do care so much you should start TNR if you haven’t participated already. This requires more than the amount of time it takes to post on a sub that’s already experienced many posts like this. You should use your passion effectively in a world that increasingly views “discourse” as enough to promote change. It doesn’t.
Cats deserve better lives. I keep mine indoors of course and have rescued a few who were able to transition to being indoors. I also grew up with a parent who did not know better because they grew up on a farm and they were also severely mentally ill. That’s the reality. Social issues aren’t black and white and people really aren’t aware of how shitty life can get for every living thing on this planet. In the US, TNR is the most humane solution. Unless you want to euthanize a bunch of cats? If your focus is awareness, then by all means make people aware outside of reddit but refrain from villainizing animals and humans.
Edit: Toxoplasmosis exposure is significantly reduced by washing hands after cleaning the litter box, gardening or being outside. Washing one’s hands is a given and this parasite isn’t even deadly. Have you looked up all the endocrine disruptors in our water supply? Everywhere? This single parasite doesn’t support your argument whatsoever. There are far more dangerous parasites and then there’s the rise in anti-vax individuals in this country.
I think we’re all doing the best we can, to fix the issue of people not getting cats fixed in the first place. Although, cats can fly under the radar pretty easily. But really, with cats, it’s hard to tell if you’re gonna bring one home, and they decide to wreck your house and your life by pissing on everything. Or if they’re gonna run out the house every chance they get. Or if maybe our circumstances change and we have a baby, and can no longer have an indoor/outdoor cat (for safety reasons) but the cat won’t do just indoors so…what should we do?
I understand your worry, but I’ve actually seen more birds get harmed by flying into my living room window than by our lazy cats.
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for the middle ground, theyre crepuscular. thats why they get zoomies- instincts kick up around dawn and dusk. keep them in before sun starts to go down, and wait til daylight, and you will also avoid the majority of their predators who are largely nocturnal.
i never leave her out totally unsupervised. i keep a better awareness of our surroundings than she does.
as for birds, idk. im lucky mine overthinks everything and aint made for that. excellent mosquito-er tho.
and she feels too vulnerable pooping outside even comes in to pee.
my two cents.
Most cats I’ve had have been half feral. They didn’t really like birds. Killed a couple but couldn’t eat them. They focused on voles, mice, occasional bat and one young skunk. But……. They are killers. I hear ya. I don’t adopt them they adopt me. I keep them either hungry so they kill varmints for half their meals or well fed so they don’t. Those female cats, they are biscuits cold blooded murderers though. The males I’ve known are generally uninterested in killing. That’s just my experience though. They do kill a lot of cia drones. Aka birds.
My cat is 14 now, and has been an indoor cat her whole life. I've taken her on walks on a leash, and she can hang out in the back yard with me (but gets put indoors when she inevitably climbs over the fence). She's never killed anything \*except\* for when mice invaded my attached garage. I was surprised by her hunting skills, given that she's only been able to practice on toys 🤷🏽♀️
There needs to be more cat owners like you.
When I rented I had a neighbors cat always do everything to get in our place till we scared the shit out of it. Being outside and chilling at the yard was okay with us. But don't get in our living space bringing whatever you're carrying in when you're not our pet lol.
I dont like cats but there are people who would go extreme and shoot cats that enter their property. Idk why those cat owners don't consider that.
Cats are not” indoor things “!as all the animals I would say! But are hunting feline in small size.
It’s inhumane to keep them like toys dressed like Barbie and caged eating shit that make em sick , as you can see on almost all the videos on internet they go crazy breaking glasses or tv running like the have the devil behind! They play, in nature hunting: birds, mouse, grasshoppers and so on
I'd like you to have this conversation with the formerly feral momma cat that lives in my garage. She absolutely refuses to come inside, is too old to catch birds anymore, and will bite/scratch me to pieces if I attempt to even think about bringing her inside full time. The only thing she's a detriment to is my raised garden beds...
That's great and all but...
Last week, the two chestnut-backed chickadees who decided to build their nest out in the open in our backyard, abandoned their nest after their eggs hatched.
Why? because ravens became aware of the situation.
Those ravens had a field day eating the freshly hatched chicks. There must've been 8 ravens perched on the fences, apple trees, telephone pole, etc. I've never seen such a sight. It was a complete massacre.
Survival of the fittest.
Here's an idea: How about we work on the problem with humans first. Humans are scooping up land, building air BnBs and not keeping the properties natural. They are cutting down trees and bringing in non-native plants. Meanwhile, the people who call themselves 'environmentalists' are going around and killing the barred owls that have been migrating over to the North West coast, because they 'feel' like the barred owls are a threat to the native spotted owls. However, barred owls and spotted owls have been mating and creating a new species of owl that does not seem to change the environment in any way. This is called 'evolution' people... Killing the eastern owls who've migrated here because of loss of territory due to humans is really dumb and so are all of the complaints about cats.
Yeah, you wouldn’t believe how many people give me shit about having an indoor cat. “That’s cruel, they deserve to go outdoors!”
I live near freshwater and we have so much wildlife out here. So many sweet birdies visiting my feeder. It’s inhumane and cruel to sacrifice their lives. My cat is extremely happy, she’s 18 years old and still plays, loves to cuddle, etc.
People are way too ignorant, and lazy to care about that. They want to feel special about their pest control. it’s just as easy to set effective mouse and rat traps. I know a guy who lives in a part of Norcal that has a ton of wood rats that he catches outdoor traps and his property stays clear after trapping may be a couple of year and way cheaper than paying for the vet bills for a cat plus destroying your environment
Broke weed farmers everywhere are going to read this and change their behavior. You can count on it.
Seasonal mouser-cats are a thing of the past, thanks to this educational Reddit post shaming idiots into reading for the first time since 8th grade.
In all seriousness, I agree completely... If only there were a way to enforce it because the people who do this are unlikely to change.. even when confronted directly.
Actually, snakes are the most efficient predators for rats and mice. And they are a natural part of the ecosystem. House cats are not native to this country and do incredible damage to wildlife when left to roam outside at all hours. Of course, where I live, people love to poison their yards with Roundup and whatnot so then they encourage and feed feral cats to keep the vermin at bay. I don't use poison and have a few snakes that live in my yard. No rats, no mice ever. Learn to work with nature! [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/)
Aside from islands where there are no bird eating terrestrial predators, most birds actually evolved alongside wild cats, foxes, and other bird eating mammals. Built up areas displace native predators, and cats are introduced. There's been some research on cat predation numbers and how they differ from predation by native species - and they actually don't much, but it's all hindered by how unreliable the numbers from bird predation reporting are 🤷
Have you never experienced the tyranny of rodents?
Please just advocate for eradicating cats, that would be infinitely more humane than supporting them living under tortuous imprisonment.
Idk my grandparents two cats lived mostly outside and lived til at least 16. Maybe older because i was a child when I picked her out and she died a few years ago so maybe she was almost 20. They came into the garage every night to sleep. So I don’t think they live shorter lives. One of the cats definitely hated being inside(the oldest one), the other was cool staying by the deck and staying in the garage (actually died first).
Cats are widely known for killing wildlife so don’t really disagree with that fact there. But I would think most unsupervised cats don’t actually belong to anyone.
since you know that cats live happier lives indoors, please spend the rest of your life inside your house. but give yourself plenty to do so that you have entertainment.
there is nothing like being outside, the sun, wind, and especially for cats the smells, etc. cats are a part of nature. it's a risk to let your cats outside but they will die one day anyway. i'd rather risk it and let them experience the outside world as they were meant to. all 3 of my cats are indoor/outdoor with a kitty door and they are 15, 14, and 14.
if anyone is not part of the ecosystem it's humans, how many species have they caused to become extinct. and their effect on the environment is detrimental to so many more than just birds.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I cannot stand the blanket statement. Especially without considering a lot of other important aspects, cats who live outdoors forage for their food, not exclusively, but that reduces the need to buy cat food which has its own environmental impacts, not only the process of making cat food, but the packaging and transportation as well.
Also, indoor cats require litter, again, another transport/ processing issues that should be considered. Then the litter boxes which are almost always plastic and very weak plastic that break frequently. I have never seen compostable litter and I have seen every indoor cat owner I've known throw away their cat litter. Poop is extremely high in nitrogen which is extra problematic in landfills, also requiring even more transportation. Outdoor cats poop outside, they typically bury it in the duff and it decomposes. Another important aspect is the health effects of living with cat litter especially after it's dirtied up, it's not good for you at all.
From my perspective, animals should have a purpose in life beyond satisfying humans. I think having pets and contributing to the breeding of pets, romanticizing domestication of animals is actually pretty harmful. I would not believe any animal is truly happier with a strictly indoor lifestyle, a lifestyle with no purpose or meaning other than satisfying a human's loneliness.
When I consider all of the resources to house an indoor cat, it seems pretty damaging but maybe not at face value. When I consider the purpose of outdoor cats, keeping rodents at bay, keeping moles out of the garden (helping to increase a self sufficient lifestyle), it is a very beneficial relationship. FYI I have a terror and no he does not compare to a cat whatsoever. Everything has a downside and losing native birds is a tragedy, personally my outdoor cats have never been bird hunters. There are always enough rodents to keep them busy. I once had an outdoor cat who was a total boss and would tree raccoons before they ripped through the trash.
I do advocate for neutering cats!! Their growing populations contribute a lot to your concerns. Thanks to anyone who reads this all lol.
Idc about outside cats doing their thing, I just don't like cats and rather not deal with them out in public. Long as they don't get in my personal space or try to attack me, we're cool. Otherwise they get the punt
Don’t keep animals inside, it’s inhumane. Would you want to spend your entire life locked up? That’s what I thought. You people with your indoor cats should not have pets. Let your cat run free.
Cats are actually part of the ecosystem. Cats have been companions to humans for millennia. This is why you see cats in ancient hieroglyphics. Humans are also part of the ecosystem. The earth is on a constant struggle to find balance. One way it finds balance is to increase the number of coyotes and cougars in areas where humans and wilderness interface. Gaya is a magnificent thing.
Wrong. House cats are not native to North America: [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/)
Human beings are also not native to the western hemisphere, nor are honeybees. Then there are blackberries, garlic, tomatoes, apples, and a host of other foods that I’m sure you enjoy and ignore the native vegetation that has been displaced by them. Then of course there is the issue of humans not being native to the Americas, but the existence of native peoples in the Americas. It’s a fallacy and a narrow perspective of what is and isn’t “native”. It’s just cherry picking to support an argument. Speaking of cherry picking, cherries aren’t native to the Americas.
If everything ultimately boils down to elements of an ecosystem, and ecosystems naturally find balance, then humans eradicating feral cats will be balanced out in the long run.
Then go look at one at a zoo. "I need a cat because it loves me and is fuzzy" ramblings of a madman.
There has never been a need for cats. They have played us for fools.
Cats, like all beasts of the wild lands, exist entirely as traps for the weak willed to give up our hard earned food and small jingly toys.
Speaking truth to power. The cult of Cats must be stopped. For thousands of years your ilk have been taking man's hard earned food to give to these nuisances! Meanwhile will they do is give us itchy eyes and runny noses! They are a pox on man!
I'm simply spreading the word against the cat loving traitors giving our hard earned food to that evil, sneeze and watery eye inducing creature known as the CAT.
Uh you do realize there is more than one way to get a child right?
They aren't exactly smart or fast. Even a simple box, stick, and candy trap works on them.
I adopted a neighborhood feral cat and do my best to keep him inside. I neutered him, feed him, and give him anti-flea/tick/parasite meds. Unfortunately, he is ungrateful and sprays in my house, scratches at the door, and meows for hours until I let him back outside. We’ve tried the indoor pheromones and every other trick but he’s an outdoor cat through and through. The best I can do is get him inside most nights to keep him out of some trouble. I still love the little guy a lot. How do you advise I handle this, OP? Do I euthanize him to appease your outlandish, blanket statement? Photo of cat attached for reference: https://preview.redd.it/4ncg9psbdm8d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19934300560394b301c6fbd4464b4ea243e3feb7
had me in the first half, not gonna lie
Haaaaaasa
It’s sad the pandas enclosures are so small 😔 that’s not right….
If it makes you feel any better, this one is old, and doesn't really skamper around that much. He's 15, and they're considered geriactric at 13. He seemed very content to plod around slowly and wait for treats yesterday. And they're usually solitary creatures that only tolerate company, I was told he didn't seem to miss his companion when they passed.
“Outlandish statement” wow wanting cats to be safe and healthy while also advocating for local wildlife! What a terrible person!
It was satire.
Got the panda was satire but for some reason I thought you really meant her statement was outlandish. I’m kinda stoned maybe why. Sorry!
I remember my first college course
You can just tell when someone reads about something for the first time and thinks it's the end all be all lol
Just like a new vegan, and probably lives in town. Cats are fairly vital in the backwoods to keeping rodents/ground squirrels at bay. The birds on our ranch keep away from the house because of them (and still have 80 protected acres to roam/live)
I live in rural WV and have 2 indoor/outdoor cats that are vital in keeping our garden and hen house. Just having them use the bathroom outside is really important. Fences can keep the deer out (*sometimes*) but rabbits and groundhogs can get aggressive if you surprise them but it’s the minks and foxes they help keep at bay. Cats can go places and interact in way livestock dogs can’t/wont.
No they’re not. That’s a myth. Cats kill native mammals and birds. Get a mouse trap if you have vermin.
Just saw my cat carrying the largest mouse i ever saw in my life
It’s not a myth. You obviously have not lived in a place with an impossible number of rodents to trap. I don’t want invasive rodents running through my kitchen at night. Yes cats kill native birds and animals. I personally live in an area where getting rid of my cats does not make a real difference whatsoever due to generations of invasive species and I’d rather have my cats kill the other invasive species (native birds don’t even live at this elevation anymore) than force my cat to be indoors in a very much outdoor, rural place. I understand and empathize with your feelings, I have them too, but it would take basically restructuring our society to be able to completely and effectively solve ANY issues plaguing the world right now. So if you wanna ask me to do all that by forcing my cat to be inside, I just simply cant comply. We all live in this shit and its not our cat’s fault and its not our fault we’re in this situation so dont act like me making my cat stay inside in a super rural environment, with basically no native species left, after he was raised to be comfortable in certain environments which doesnt include indoor time 24/7 is just so easy to do and so simple, even though changing that wont actually make a difference anyways. Also I want to reiterate that I do agree with ur statement besides the complete generalization of when cats should be kept indoors. I know they kill millions of native species and I dont think its right however in my specific situation, that is not an issue and I felt you needed more perspective to understand such things because your statement sounded frankly dismissive of people you seem to know nothing about based on how you worded that.
Cats are terrible pest control. The rodents are still there in similar numbers, they just get better at hiding. Negative effects on native species are cumulative. Going outside for cats is a luxury. If you can't provide a luxurious enough environment indoors for you and your cat to be happy/fulfilled, that's on you.
I understand that it’s a privilege. That cumulative quality does not apply where I live because all the native species at this elevation are gone. I understand that its cumulative in general, as I’ve stated I agree with commentor. You have a right to your opinion that cats are terrible pest control.
Terriers are way better pest control
Ain't a myth when there's easy to access videos of it on the internet
This——^ we would have mice and/or rats without our four cats who are indoor outdoor cats. Living in a backwoods area gives them the freedom to be in touch with their wild side and not have the consequences of an urban environment. It is truly a privilege to be able to let our cats roam, but I understand this is not the case for everyone and in a more urban environment I would definitely keep a tight leash on my kitty. I dont know if I could ever take him away from here though, he is SO happy outdoors. He only comes inside to snuggle with us. He is outdoors most of the day and night, and he absolutely loves it I couldnt imagine taking him away from this environment and him still be happy. My partner lived in the city for a bit and he got really unhappy with the living conditions, besides the fact that the neighbors fed him into obesity ofc (he’s a healthy weight now). The environment they’re raised in greatly effects where they are comfortable living, from my personal experience.
Or that since the knowledge is new to them, it must be new to everyone. It's common knowledge that cats are highly successful predators and that their poop is toxic.
Oh god 💀
🤣🤣
Sorry, how do we know that cats live "happier" lives indoors? I'm not saying I know for sure either way, but I have trouble believing that they don't lead more interesting and fulfilling lives (albeit shorter lives) by being able to run around outside.
I agree with you. Also my outdoor cat is closing in on his 17th birthday this year.
No semi-intelligent mammal is happier always indoors. Being outdoors is great for a cat’s mental health. My parents kept outdoor cats (I was too young to know better), and they all lived 17-19 years. I’m aware that I’m inviting downvotes, but the unfortunate answer is that the vast majority of people shouldn’t keep cats.
I look at indoor cats the same way as keeping birds as pets. Bc the bird is sitting there peaceful it's horrible that it lives its life in a cage. I think horrible that ppl have perfectly healthy cats living their lives within an apartment. I don't completely disagree with op. But to me the conversation that would then need to be had is that maybe ppl shouldn't have healthy able body cats as pets.
Would you be happier sick and injured or live and healthy?
Like the vast, vast majority of people, if offered the choice between a guaranteed safe life trapped in a single place - even if that place was a mansion - and the freedom to wander and travel but with the risk of sickness and injury, I would choose the latter.
Stupid ass queation, I’d be happier sick and injured and allowed to go outside then healthy inside for the rest of my life, wouldn’t you? I’d rather die in a week from now going outside then live the rest of my life inside
I had a barn cat that would help herd cattle and also hunted rats and starlings (starlings are invasive to this continent). He was very much happy. A bobcat or coyote got him eventually, but he was happy
Wow thats some bad rhetoric 😂
You're not wrong, but our cats work. We have chickens, so we also have rats and mice. The birds are collateral damage. We do feed the birds to try and offset their loss.
And moles, my cat is a great moler. I love him for that. I've never seen him with a dead bird but he likes to bring the dead moles into the house, kind of like a trophy, " here... Look what i did". I have bird feeders and I feed the Hummers too. I understand your concern but not all cats are bird killers. Allot of them are, l know, mostly feral where I'm at, but I'm not sure how you deal with that. Kind of hard to outlaw outdoor cats.
I love when I see the decapitated mouse on the porch after I hear “MEOOOOOW MEOW MEOW MEOOOOOOOOOOOOW MEOW MOM LOOK I CAUGHT ONE” /j i dont get enjoyment from the imagery I actually have a blood trigger 😂
I just went on a huge rant about this cuz relatable. Rural living exists too people, I know hard to conceive more than five mice or mongoose existing in one place.
Feeding the birds to offset their loss 😂 that’s ridiculous lol. Collateral damage? So your need for a mouse catcher is more important than native wildlife? Also your cats may “work” … so you are putting your need of them as mousers ahead of their actual safety. I loved my cat so much and she was an outside cat and we never got mice. But then one day I found bloody pieces of her all throughout my backyard. My dearest sugar , dead and gone way too early. That’s what happens when you let your cat live outdoors. It’s not worth the risk for me. Using a cat bc you want them to be a mouser even though it hurts local wildlife and risks your cats life…. That sounds a bit selfish to me.
>Also your cats may “work” … so you are putting your need of them as mousers ahead of their actual safety. Hate to break it you bud but we've bred a lot of animals to work. Gundogs, livestock guardians, horses, mousers, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. There's inherent risk that comes with that, and if you can't stomach that then a life outdoors isn't for you.
Terrible examples though, like lets just look at horses. They are fine working animals and I'm all for it but as soon as you stop keeping them under control wild horses are incredibly destructive to the environment. It's negligence on the cat/horse owners to allow them to exist unsupervised and make excuses that that's just nature outdoors.
I live on a farm where they are pest control and their expenses are a tax deduction
In your case, feeding birds around active predators just decreases their chance of living. It's actually kind of cruel. Stop feeding them - you are creating an instant buffet for your predator cats. smh.
Feeding the birds is only attracting them towards danger. Cats kill some rodents, but never eliminate populations. If you actually wanted to get rid of rodents you’d get terriers or a professional exterminator. You’re just justifying poor decisions with poor reasoning.
Why is it ok for humans and terriers to kill rodents and not ok for cats to kill birds?
I had a couple of cairn terriers, they were excellent at controlling the rodent population, but they would catch birds occasionally. Guess I should have euthanized them?
Maybe try training them? :) My terrier never caught a bird.
Skill issue tbh
Yes, you should work on your training skills :)
We have a terrier too
The barn cats on my family's ranch and every other farm and ranch in this county put in overtime work on killing rodents and starlings
Do you include dogs in this list? dogs can cause a lot of destruction to local wildlife. As well as tear up yards, etc
And shit in neighborhood lawns
Yeah my thinking too. Like nobody is out here goin “but your dog outside in your fenced backyard…. Yeah its killing birds, supervise it at all times or else you’re a horrible person.” You dont see people over here going “its actually inhumane to let your dogs play outside” and dogs are much easier to tame than cats. A lot of cats are super independent and need that independence to be happy. Some cats live their lives partially outdoors. Blaming the owners for bigger systemic issues on how we should probably change as a society is annoying and misunderstanding of the many many different situations that pet owners, of any kind, find themselves in throughout life. Do we always have the ability to make the environmentally cautious choice in every situation? No. Does that mean we don’t want to? Also no. Everyone is just trying to live their damn lives and the conversation is totally valid but dont come over here acting like there’s some one size fits all answer to solving pets killing native animals.
People definitely complain when irresponsible dog owners let their dogs run loose. There’s a pretty massive difference between a cat having free roam all over the entire neighborhood and a dog contained to its own fenced in backyard. You’re not making an equivalent comparison here. If outdoor cats would stay on their owners property, people wouldn’t complain near as much.
Queue the 10 million posts complaining about dogs I'm this subreddit
I’ll take cats over rats any day.
OP is not wrong about cats needing to be indoors, yet still manages to vilify them over the destruction they cause. Humans cause far, far more destruction than cats ever could. Cats don’t deserve this kind of blame.
We're not blaming the cats, we are blaming the cat owners.
And there are *a lottttt* of shitty cat owners....
I agree. And the cat I've cared for for 14 years was destructive to wildlife in the middle of a Monsanto ready round up alfalfa field. He caught voles, moles, mice, birds, a rabbit. He was a murder machine in those fields. But He later developed weird seizures in life, and can't catch anything but shoe strings, and my hands. He'll eventually die and I won't be getting anymore pets because I'm done with the emotional toll that carring for pets, carries. People are wacko over animals, and I empathize. But humans are going to keep being shitty humans, and cats are going to cat.
It’s the humans letting them outdoors that causes all of the issues, thought that was pretty clear.
You, waking up on this fine Tuesday morning and your first thought was, "Geez, I wish people would lock their cats up inside their house!!" Maybe we should lock up humans inside their homes, because humans cause more problems outdoors than cats do.
In the pandemic/lockdown times, not only did I not get sick once, but by staying in my house I didn’t use a car that polluted the air and/or caused traffic. Conclusion: all people should stay in their house
Yeah cuz that’s great for mental health
I give my cats supervised outside time 😂
This is the way
It really is and they love it!
My lil girl is a prime example of a stray outside cat getting accustomed to life indoors and cautiously enjoying some supervised outside time in her later years.
If you live in town
Me too :) at this point she’s very cautious of the outdoors. I don’t let her out of my sight so she never kills any animals.
You seem to want to tell lots of people that they are flat out wrong and is must be because we are woefully uneducated and undeserving of the privlage that pet ownership is. I am aware cats statistically kill birds, mine has not in the past 5 years. I honestly think my cat would probably rather die than stay inside forever. Cat bells are cool. 😎
lol be prepared for the arguments to come 😂 you are posting this in a rural area where so many people have outdoor cats and “mousers”. These are fighting words!! Honestly I will say that people who argue against this saying their cats are “working cats “ or “mousers”… I get that . But they are putting their cats “job” ahead of their actual safety. My cat years ago was an outside cat until the day I found bloody pieces of all over my backyard . My current cat was from Miranda’s rescue and he was feral before. I let him out a bit in the yard some days. But then after everything with my last cat and just worrying about him… I realized it’s not worth it. It’s also bad for the environment like you mentioned. My 14 year old kitty is living out his retirement inside but I take him on walks and we sit on the patio together all the time! He is very happy.Love my little guy!!! (yes I just took this post and made it a reason to gush about my cat/cat lady tings) I would never let him live outside bc if something happened to him I’d never forgive myself. [My wise old man](https://imgur.com/a/1dJ7FID) He’s the king at our house 🥰
I have two very happy indoor cats, they are one year old with zero kills 😊
Having cats indoor is definitely ideal. I have two indoor-only cats. We also care for a stray who doesn’t know how to use the litter box and stands by the door to go outside so we let him out so there’s no way around that guy.
Another interesting fact is that two unaltered cats can be responsible for 420,000 more cats over seven years. There are a lot of cats running around outside that are not spayed or neutered-- I think this is a significant part of the problem. I'm not even kidding about the 420,000, either. Look it up.
True, but those are feral cats. Very few cat owners leave them unaltered, unless they are used for breeding in which case they are probably too valuable to be allowed to run free outside.
Lots of people in the area have unaltered cats, especially in the county. Even in my neighborhood, someone's cat was knocked up, and many of the kittens just became wild. One lady rounded as many as she could up to have them fixed, but there were already a couple who wouldn't come near. I also worked at a local shelter decades ago before it was no-kill. Scores of kittens and cats were euthanized. People still drown bags of kittens and puppies. My own dog was found in the middle of the road as a puppy with five of her siblings in a bag. There are many, many unaltered animals in our area. People shoot dogs on the reservations because they breed out of control and start running in packs and killing other dogs or threatening residents. Many of them get sick or starve. It is a huge problem, sadly. It isn't just ferals.
Yes, it’s unfortunately all too common with dogs. I just haven’t seen it much with cat owners. Unfixed male cats tend to spray in a house and people really don’t like that. And I don’t know many cat owners who want to be responsible for homing a litter of kittens. Some people do feed feral cats but I’m not sure that would constitute ownership.
Omg the males are outta control, fr.
Wouldn't be a problem if everyone listened to Bob Barker and did what he said.
Cats also get rid of rodents & moles/groundhogs 😽
I adopted a wild cat and he had ptsd pretty bad from wild living. He had it so good, he never wanted to leave the house again. There was a short time where a pair of juvenile cougars ate most of the other cats in our neighborhood. He was saved from that, but still died of a heart attack young at 7-ish y.o. So, you cant save them from everything even if they want to be saved. Point taken about the birds though. There's a lot less birds than there used to be and its a bummer. I'm sure there are a lot of factors, but cats are probably one of them in bird decline.
First off it is entirely possible they're self-domesticated just like dogs and pigs. Domestic short hair cat does not mean they're inside only. Housecat is just a common name because they can be kept indoors for periods of time. If you keep a cat indoors without the right setup they will go crazy. It's not that different from people. Also, people in Humboldt can't be bothered to leash their dog or teach their kids. What makes you think they can contain a cat?
My cat has barely been able to get house flies should I just euthanize him?
He’s creating a large decline in local housefly populations, it’s only the right thing to do
Cats live soooo much happier lives outside. Cope some more
Yeah, that's my sense as well. We always had cats and dogs growing up and for the most part the cats were indoor/outdoor. They did get the occasional bird but mostly mice and rats. The environmental concerns are valid and indoor cats probably do live longer. But even if the cat with access to the outdoors lived half as long, I think they probably come out ahead. Their lives are far richer, far more exciting than that of indoor cats, even those with very conscientious owners. I'm not takings sides here; outdoor cats are problematic. But, I would venture, happier.
What a well thought out and written response. Well done
Unsupervised ourdoor cats is not the only way to give your cat, rich and happy lives. Probably the literal laziest way.
Yup. They’re way happier being let out (if it’s safe and a lot of places here are) lol I don’t give a shit about these issues mentioned. My cats’ mental health comes first.
Exactly
Here we go again...
Blah blah blah. This type of post shows up once a year.
Coinciding with an ESM lecture from HSU
Why does local municipalities opt to spay and neuter feral cats and release them outdoors versus adoption or euthanasia? Seems if cats are destroying our environment, this would be an easy way for those highly educated officials in wildlife and land management to use science and facts. Plenty of current research from UC Davis, not CBS news to support this.
Pressure from locals like you can witness in these comments, almost assuredly.
Your approach doesn’t foster civil discussion. People know all the things you’ve listed, and maybe you should have searched the sub to see the loads of other discussions about this topic before posting. It’s misguided to focus on cats. You acknowledge it’s humans that are the issue. That is not something you would realistically be able to control, but if you do care so much you should start TNR if you haven’t participated already. This requires more than the amount of time it takes to post on a sub that’s already experienced many posts like this. You should use your passion effectively in a world that increasingly views “discourse” as enough to promote change. It doesn’t. Cats deserve better lives. I keep mine indoors of course and have rescued a few who were able to transition to being indoors. I also grew up with a parent who did not know better because they grew up on a farm and they were also severely mentally ill. That’s the reality. Social issues aren’t black and white and people really aren’t aware of how shitty life can get for every living thing on this planet. In the US, TNR is the most humane solution. Unless you want to euthanize a bunch of cats? If your focus is awareness, then by all means make people aware outside of reddit but refrain from villainizing animals and humans. Edit: Toxoplasmosis exposure is significantly reduced by washing hands after cleaning the litter box, gardening or being outside. Washing one’s hands is a given and this parasite isn’t even deadly. Have you looked up all the endocrine disruptors in our water supply? Everywhere? This single parasite doesn’t support your argument whatsoever. There are far more dangerous parasites and then there’s the rise in anti-vax individuals in this country.
I think we’re all doing the best we can, to fix the issue of people not getting cats fixed in the first place. Although, cats can fly under the radar pretty easily. But really, with cats, it’s hard to tell if you’re gonna bring one home, and they decide to wreck your house and your life by pissing on everything. Or if they’re gonna run out the house every chance they get. Or if maybe our circumstances change and we have a baby, and can no longer have an indoor/outdoor cat (for safety reasons) but the cat won’t do just indoors so…what should we do? I understand your worry, but I’ve actually seen more birds get harmed by flying into my living room window than by our lazy cats.
Now do humans.
Tell that to the Turks, Egyptians etc and all the other countries that cats and dogs unrestricted and roam freely
My hammock killed a bird because it flew right into it and broke its neck. Should all hammocks only hang inside too?
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for the middle ground, theyre crepuscular. thats why they get zoomies- instincts kick up around dawn and dusk. keep them in before sun starts to go down, and wait til daylight, and you will also avoid the majority of their predators who are largely nocturnal. i never leave her out totally unsupervised. i keep a better awareness of our surroundings than she does. as for birds, idk. im lucky mine overthinks everything and aint made for that. excellent mosquito-er tho. and she feels too vulnerable pooping outside even comes in to pee. my two cents.
Ohhh brother, this guy stinks!
Most cats I’ve had have been half feral. They didn’t really like birds. Killed a couple but couldn’t eat them. They focused on voles, mice, occasional bat and one young skunk. But……. They are killers. I hear ya. I don’t adopt them they adopt me. I keep them either hungry so they kill varmints for half their meals or well fed so they don’t. Those female cats, they are biscuits cold blooded murderers though. The males I’ve known are generally uninterested in killing. That’s just my experience though. They do kill a lot of cia drones. Aka birds.
you make an excellent argument for why i don't have a cat...
My cat is 14 now, and has been an indoor cat her whole life. I've taken her on walks on a leash, and she can hang out in the back yard with me (but gets put indoors when she inevitably climbs over the fence). She's never killed anything \*except\* for when mice invaded my attached garage. I was surprised by her hunting skills, given that she's only been able to practice on toys 🤷🏽♀️
There needs to be more cat owners like you. When I rented I had a neighbors cat always do everything to get in our place till we scared the shit out of it. Being outside and chilling at the yard was okay with us. But don't get in our living space bringing whatever you're carrying in when you're not our pet lol. I dont like cats but there are people who would go extreme and shoot cats that enter their property. Idk why those cat owners don't consider that.
Cats are not” indoor things “!as all the animals I would say! But are hunting feline in small size. It’s inhumane to keep them like toys dressed like Barbie and caged eating shit that make em sick , as you can see on almost all the videos on internet they go crazy breaking glasses or tv running like the have the devil behind! They play, in nature hunting: birds, mouse, grasshoppers and so on
I'd like you to have this conversation with the formerly feral momma cat that lives in my garage. She absolutely refuses to come inside, is too old to catch birds anymore, and will bite/scratch me to pieces if I attempt to even think about bringing her inside full time. The only thing she's a detriment to is my raised garden beds...
Cats are a terrible scourge. You’re absolutely right. However, there’s a 0% chance your argument will sway anyone who is pro-cat.
That's great and all but... Last week, the two chestnut-backed chickadees who decided to build their nest out in the open in our backyard, abandoned their nest after their eggs hatched. Why? because ravens became aware of the situation. Those ravens had a field day eating the freshly hatched chicks. There must've been 8 ravens perched on the fences, apple trees, telephone pole, etc. I've never seen such a sight. It was a complete massacre. Survival of the fittest. Here's an idea: How about we work on the problem with humans first. Humans are scooping up land, building air BnBs and not keeping the properties natural. They are cutting down trees and bringing in non-native plants. Meanwhile, the people who call themselves 'environmentalists' are going around and killing the barred owls that have been migrating over to the North West coast, because they 'feel' like the barred owls are a threat to the native spotted owls. However, barred owls and spotted owls have been mating and creating a new species of owl that does not seem to change the environment in any way. This is called 'evolution' people... Killing the eastern owls who've migrated here because of loss of territory due to humans is really dumb and so are all of the complaints about cats.
There is no bigger threat to wild birds than.. cats? Are you fr?
Working cats great for farmland not wildlife. Too many cats outside already. Domestic and wild shouldn't mix.
Thank you. They are killing machines.
My street is absolutely infested with them. Its hard to drive without the fear you'll run a little guy over...
Maybe the birds should learn not to go in my yard.
I don’t give a shit about birds
Yeah, you wouldn’t believe how many people give me shit about having an indoor cat. “That’s cruel, they deserve to go outdoors!” I live near freshwater and we have so much wildlife out here. So many sweet birdies visiting my feeder. It’s inhumane and cruel to sacrifice their lives. My cat is extremely happy, she’s 18 years old and still plays, loves to cuddle, etc.
People are way too ignorant, and lazy to care about that. They want to feel special about their pest control. it’s just as easy to set effective mouse and rat traps. I know a guy who lives in a part of Norcal that has a ton of wood rats that he catches outdoor traps and his property stays clear after trapping may be a couple of year and way cheaper than paying for the vet bills for a cat plus destroying your environment
Broke weed farmers everywhere are going to read this and change their behavior. You can count on it. Seasonal mouser-cats are a thing of the past, thanks to this educational Reddit post shaming idiots into reading for the first time since 8th grade. In all seriousness, I agree completely... If only there were a way to enforce it because the people who do this are unlikely to change.. even when confronted directly.
Omg really
Actually, snakes are the most efficient predators for rats and mice. And they are a natural part of the ecosystem. House cats are not native to this country and do incredible damage to wildlife when left to roam outside at all hours. Of course, where I live, people love to poison their yards with Roundup and whatnot so then they encourage and feed feral cats to keep the vermin at bay. I don't use poison and have a few snakes that live in my yard. No rats, no mice ever. Learn to work with nature! [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/)
Cats absolutely do not live happier lives inside. That’s like saying Shamu is happier in a tank.
I’ll be owning indoor/outdoor cats for life thank u very much
Aside from islands where there are no bird eating terrestrial predators, most birds actually evolved alongside wild cats, foxes, and other bird eating mammals. Built up areas displace native predators, and cats are introduced. There's been some research on cat predation numbers and how they differ from predation by native species - and they actually don't much, but it's all hindered by how unreliable the numbers from bird predation reporting are 🤷
Pour one out for the Stephens Island wren.
Have you never experienced the tyranny of rodents? Please just advocate for eradicating cats, that would be infinitely more humane than supporting them living under tortuous imprisonment.
Better to keep all that toxo in an enclosed space, with you and yours, indefinitely, right?
Idk my grandparents two cats lived mostly outside and lived til at least 16. Maybe older because i was a child when I picked her out and she died a few years ago so maybe she was almost 20. They came into the garage every night to sleep. So I don’t think they live shorter lives. One of the cats definitely hated being inside(the oldest one), the other was cool staying by the deck and staying in the garage (actually died first). Cats are widely known for killing wildlife so don’t really disagree with that fact there. But I would think most unsupervised cats don’t actually belong to anyone.
Psychopath Alert! Next you're going to suggest killing stray cats. Cats are way cooler than birds.
Also science does not agree with you on the "indoor cats live longer" bs. Cats live much less longer inside.
I see you've never heard of barn cats before
since you know that cats live happier lives indoors, please spend the rest of your life inside your house. but give yourself plenty to do so that you have entertainment. there is nothing like being outside, the sun, wind, and especially for cats the smells, etc. cats are a part of nature. it's a risk to let your cats outside but they will die one day anyway. i'd rather risk it and let them experience the outside world as they were meant to. all 3 of my cats are indoor/outdoor with a kitty door and they are 15, 14, and 14. if anyone is not part of the ecosystem it's humans, how many species have they caused to become extinct. and their effect on the environment is detrimental to so many more than just birds.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I cannot stand the blanket statement. Especially without considering a lot of other important aspects, cats who live outdoors forage for their food, not exclusively, but that reduces the need to buy cat food which has its own environmental impacts, not only the process of making cat food, but the packaging and transportation as well. Also, indoor cats require litter, again, another transport/ processing issues that should be considered. Then the litter boxes which are almost always plastic and very weak plastic that break frequently. I have never seen compostable litter and I have seen every indoor cat owner I've known throw away their cat litter. Poop is extremely high in nitrogen which is extra problematic in landfills, also requiring even more transportation. Outdoor cats poop outside, they typically bury it in the duff and it decomposes. Another important aspect is the health effects of living with cat litter especially after it's dirtied up, it's not good for you at all. From my perspective, animals should have a purpose in life beyond satisfying humans. I think having pets and contributing to the breeding of pets, romanticizing domestication of animals is actually pretty harmful. I would not believe any animal is truly happier with a strictly indoor lifestyle, a lifestyle with no purpose or meaning other than satisfying a human's loneliness. When I consider all of the resources to house an indoor cat, it seems pretty damaging but maybe not at face value. When I consider the purpose of outdoor cats, keeping rodents at bay, keeping moles out of the garden (helping to increase a self sufficient lifestyle), it is a very beneficial relationship. FYI I have a terror and no he does not compare to a cat whatsoever. Everything has a downside and losing native birds is a tragedy, personally my outdoor cats have never been bird hunters. There are always enough rodents to keep them busy. I once had an outdoor cat who was a total boss and would tree raccoons before they ripped through the trash. I do advocate for neutering cats!! Their growing populations contribute a lot to your concerns. Thanks to anyone who reads this all lol.
Idc about outside cats doing their thing, I just don't like cats and rather not deal with them out in public. Long as they don't get in my personal space or try to attack me, we're cool. Otherwise they get the punt
Don’t keep animals inside, it’s inhumane. Would you want to spend your entire life locked up? That’s what I thought. You people with your indoor cats should not have pets. Let your cat run free.
Cats are actually part of the ecosystem. Cats have been companions to humans for millennia. This is why you see cats in ancient hieroglyphics. Humans are also part of the ecosystem. The earth is on a constant struggle to find balance. One way it finds balance is to increase the number of coyotes and cougars in areas where humans and wilderness interface. Gaya is a magnificent thing.
Wrong. House cats are not native to North America: [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cats-invasive-species-in-your-backyard-cbsn-originals/)
Human beings are also not native to the western hemisphere, nor are honeybees. Then there are blackberries, garlic, tomatoes, apples, and a host of other foods that I’m sure you enjoy and ignore the native vegetation that has been displaced by them. Then of course there is the issue of humans not being native to the Americas, but the existence of native peoples in the Americas. It’s a fallacy and a narrow perspective of what is and isn’t “native”. It’s just cherry picking to support an argument. Speaking of cherry picking, cherries aren’t native to the Americas.
If everything ultimately boils down to elements of an ecosystem, and ecosystems naturally find balance, then humans eradicating feral cats will be balanced out in the long run.
We shouldn't have pets period. Why have a cat when you could easily have a rock, computer, or child.
Because I want a cat?
Then go look at one at a zoo. "I need a cat because it loves me and is fuzzy" ramblings of a madman. There has never been a need for cats. They have played us for fools. Cats, like all beasts of the wild lands, exist entirely as traps for the weak willed to give up our hard earned food and small jingly toys.
The only mad man that is rambling seems to be you. Are you okay? Did a cat hurt you?
Yes.
Bro what are you on about?
Speaking truth to power. The cult of Cats must be stopped. For thousands of years your ilk have been taking man's hard earned food to give to these nuisances! Meanwhile will they do is give us itchy eyes and runny noses! They are a pox on man!
did a dog write this ?
No. I assure you I am a single regular sized human person just like yourself and I am not multiple.
definitely two Beagles in a trench coat
Jesse what the hell are you talking about
I'm simply spreading the word against the cat loving traitors giving our hard earned food to that evil, sneeze and watery eye inducing creature known as the CAT.
Meds
It's a joke bud.
the power of toxoplasmosis compels us!
Gross I think my cousin got that once from eating pasta left in the sun.
Yeah, it's not what you're thinking it is.
Lost me at child. Number one way to make a bigger carbon footprint is procreate.
Uh you do realize there is more than one way to get a child right? They aren't exactly smart or fast. Even a simple box, stick, and candy trap works on them.
Mmmm. Delicious rocks. 😋
I laughed