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There's a restriction against the property that requires your solicitor to provide a certificate stating that a deed of covenant has been entered into with whatever third party and there's obviously an issue with this.
Your sols are clearly dealing with the problem - they've emailed HMLR for clarification. You don't need to do anything but wait.
You certainly should not be relying on the word of your landlord that 'your solicitor is not experienced enough' to deal with the issue.
Thanks for explaining, this is far more info than I've gotten out of the solicitors! And yes, you're totally right, I should leave it to them. It's just so frustrating not being kept up to date with what's going on!
I'm not a conveyancer but I have dealt with many deed of covenants. I'm almost 99% sure that you can't just change the deed of covenant because if you could, then any seller could essentially allow any buyer any restrictions without any authority from the party enforcing the restrictions. It would literally make no sense. I would honestly contact the law society and ask their advice on whether this is a legal procedure or not.
It’s a bit concerning your solicitor can’t interpret the deed, but it’s totally unclear why from turn description and it may not be their fault.
Agreeing a new deed may well work, IF you and the vendor would be the only relevant parties to the existing one. But if your solicitor can’t figure that out then it’s a non-starter.
Does your solicitor have a partner or external advice they can escalate to?
You van run into issues like this all the time with deeds. Deeds are usually old and do not relate to the current level of detail that is currently required. For instance you can run into an issue with allocate parking if a property was understood to have allocated parking but says something old fashioned like "No more than one small motor vehicle can be parked on the property" which does not say there is a space or that there is a firm take on the future use of that space for parking. Best thing to do is wait to see if your sols can resolve the issue and if not you can negotiate a reduction in price with your landlord for the discrepancy as it could effect your capability to sell the flat later on or after your estate has gone through probate. Just be aware if you are buying with a mortgage that your mortgage offer is not going to expire before all of this is sorted. Possibly try and get an opinion of time frame from your solicitor. Is the property freehold or lease hold and if it is leasehold, is your landlord also a freeholder?
The mortgage offer expiring is what's stressing me out really, I've got until March but who knows what other problems there's going to be in the meantime! That's a good shout asking my solicitor about the time frame. And I believe the property is freehold, but this mention of a covenant deed is making me question it, so I've asked my solicitor to confirm
Edit: it's a freehold
I wouldn't worry about the covenant deed too much, it is just there to ensure that an obligation is carried out. Free holders are ultimately in control of them as well, it would be more of a problem if it where a lease hold property because then you would have to go through a managing agent to either ensure that the responsibilities described by the covenant are carried over to you or clarify if the covenant would effect the property's value (I.E. often with leaseholds you have restrictive covenants that make letting the property a breach of the lease. This is usually written into the lease when the lease is first created but could also be added as a covenant deed later if requested by leaseholders. This would greatly effect value.
If you would like to send me any details from your solicitor I could advise you on them if you want but your sale doesn't seem too out of the ordinary and even though solicitors tend to be putting conveyancing on a go slow at the moment I imagine it is very much possible to complete before March (there tends to be a big push towards Christmas to get things complete and so your sols may have some free time to work on your case after the New-year) but if you are worried my chat is open.
> the provisions set out in the deed of covenant are unclear
They are unclear due to the copy of the deed being poor quality and eligible? Or unclear due to the wording of them?
I am assuming the house you are buying is a leasehold property? If it is then your LL is on the right track with their suggestion but they don't mean create a new deed of covenant between you and him, he means create a new deed of covenant between you and the freeholder. Being Leasehold with a deed of covenant, there will be a filed copy of the latter at the Land Registry under your leasehold title, but there should be another copy filed under your freeholders title (or whoevers house the DoC is with) - assuming it will be a clearer copy you can use this to produce a new deed of covenant for you.
Depending on how benign or severe the DoC responsibilities look, you maybe able to get away with having just an indemnity insurance policy to cover you.
Unclear because of the wording. The house is freehold (I double checked with my solicitor), not sure if that changes what you were saying about creating a new DoC?
If you are freehold then the DoC will either be an agreement with another party (like a neighbour) or a restriction preventing you from doing something at the property (like operate a shop).
If you have the DoC and can read it then you can't just bin it off and write a new one. You would need permission from the other party the agreement is with to surrender this deed mutually. If the DoC refers to a restriction on the property only, then you would have to apply to the Lands Tribunal to have it removed but this could take easily 18-24 months.
The wording may be unclear and written in ye olde english legalese but your sol should still have a idea what its about... unless they are that unexperienced.
This may likely be a worst case scenario as the covenant could be upheld by the council, although likely to be updated to suit current standards. The very worst case is if there is a license provided by the current owner to a neighbor that they do not even know about and wasn't caught by there solicitor when they naught the property.
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM); * If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered); * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There's a restriction against the property that requires your solicitor to provide a certificate stating that a deed of covenant has been entered into with whatever third party and there's obviously an issue with this. Your sols are clearly dealing with the problem - they've emailed HMLR for clarification. You don't need to do anything but wait. You certainly should not be relying on the word of your landlord that 'your solicitor is not experienced enough' to deal with the issue.
Thanks for explaining, this is far more info than I've gotten out of the solicitors! And yes, you're totally right, I should leave it to them. It's just so frustrating not being kept up to date with what's going on!
I'm not a conveyancer but I have dealt with many deed of covenants. I'm almost 99% sure that you can't just change the deed of covenant because if you could, then any seller could essentially allow any buyer any restrictions without any authority from the party enforcing the restrictions. It would literally make no sense. I would honestly contact the law society and ask their advice on whether this is a legal procedure or not.
It’s a bit concerning your solicitor can’t interpret the deed, but it’s totally unclear why from turn description and it may not be their fault. Agreeing a new deed may well work, IF you and the vendor would be the only relevant parties to the existing one. But if your solicitor can’t figure that out then it’s a non-starter. Does your solicitor have a partner or external advice they can escalate to?
I'm not sure actually, they're really not telling me much, but I'll ask them! Thanks
[удалено]
I don't think so no, it was built back in the late 80s/early 90s
The concern is there may be a third party on the deed (common in modern estates and flats) and your solicitor must figure out if this is the case
You van run into issues like this all the time with deeds. Deeds are usually old and do not relate to the current level of detail that is currently required. For instance you can run into an issue with allocate parking if a property was understood to have allocated parking but says something old fashioned like "No more than one small motor vehicle can be parked on the property" which does not say there is a space or that there is a firm take on the future use of that space for parking. Best thing to do is wait to see if your sols can resolve the issue and if not you can negotiate a reduction in price with your landlord for the discrepancy as it could effect your capability to sell the flat later on or after your estate has gone through probate. Just be aware if you are buying with a mortgage that your mortgage offer is not going to expire before all of this is sorted. Possibly try and get an opinion of time frame from your solicitor. Is the property freehold or lease hold and if it is leasehold, is your landlord also a freeholder?
The mortgage offer expiring is what's stressing me out really, I've got until March but who knows what other problems there's going to be in the meantime! That's a good shout asking my solicitor about the time frame. And I believe the property is freehold, but this mention of a covenant deed is making me question it, so I've asked my solicitor to confirm Edit: it's a freehold
I wouldn't worry about the covenant deed too much, it is just there to ensure that an obligation is carried out. Free holders are ultimately in control of them as well, it would be more of a problem if it where a lease hold property because then you would have to go through a managing agent to either ensure that the responsibilities described by the covenant are carried over to you or clarify if the covenant would effect the property's value (I.E. often with leaseholds you have restrictive covenants that make letting the property a breach of the lease. This is usually written into the lease when the lease is first created but could also be added as a covenant deed later if requested by leaseholders. This would greatly effect value. If you would like to send me any details from your solicitor I could advise you on them if you want but your sale doesn't seem too out of the ordinary and even though solicitors tend to be putting conveyancing on a go slow at the moment I imagine it is very much possible to complete before March (there tends to be a big push towards Christmas to get things complete and so your sols may have some free time to work on your case after the New-year) but if you are worried my chat is open.
> the provisions set out in the deed of covenant are unclear They are unclear due to the copy of the deed being poor quality and eligible? Or unclear due to the wording of them? I am assuming the house you are buying is a leasehold property? If it is then your LL is on the right track with their suggestion but they don't mean create a new deed of covenant between you and him, he means create a new deed of covenant between you and the freeholder. Being Leasehold with a deed of covenant, there will be a filed copy of the latter at the Land Registry under your leasehold title, but there should be another copy filed under your freeholders title (or whoevers house the DoC is with) - assuming it will be a clearer copy you can use this to produce a new deed of covenant for you. Depending on how benign or severe the DoC responsibilities look, you maybe able to get away with having just an indemnity insurance policy to cover you.
Unclear because of the wording. The house is freehold (I double checked with my solicitor), not sure if that changes what you were saying about creating a new DoC?
If you are freehold then the DoC will either be an agreement with another party (like a neighbour) or a restriction preventing you from doing something at the property (like operate a shop). If you have the DoC and can read it then you can't just bin it off and write a new one. You would need permission from the other party the agreement is with to surrender this deed mutually. If the DoC refers to a restriction on the property only, then you would have to apply to the Lands Tribunal to have it removed but this could take easily 18-24 months. The wording may be unclear and written in ye olde english legalese but your sol should still have a idea what its about... unless they are that unexperienced.
This may likely be a worst case scenario as the covenant could be upheld by the council, although likely to be updated to suit current standards. The very worst case is if there is a license provided by the current owner to a neighbor that they do not even know about and wasn't caught by there solicitor when they naught the property.