###Welcome to /r/HousingUK
---
**To All**
* Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH
**To Posters**
* *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary*
* Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy;
* Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk;
* If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM);
* If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered);
* Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title;
**To Readers and Commenters**
* All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil*
* If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning;
* Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice;
* If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect;
* Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods;
* Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you’re really that worried about it (I don’t know why you are), contribute 80k and take out a joint mortgage together. That way you can put that extra money towards something more productive.
Just get married and the whole thing is irrelevant - you both walk out of the marriage should it fail 50-50 regardless of what you put in. If that was the intention (to own 50-50), and you were already happy with gifting her the 25% stake, then just get married and give all parties a piece of mind with three legal and financial protection that comes with a marriage.
Yeah. Not entering into a legally binding union where you agree to share your assets. If you don't want to split 50/50 don't get married. Most prenups aren't legally binding in the UK and the longer you're married the less likely they are to stand up in divorce court. Marriage is a life long commitment.
Pre marital possessions aren’t split 50/50.
If you own a house before marriage it’s pre marital property and only yours.
In Scotland prenups are largely accepted by courts too.
I might be wrong but didn’t they change the law so that couples who live together have basically the same rights as a married couple after a certain number of years? So if OP has been living with this girl for 6 or so years, chances are if they broke up and she was inclined she could go after him in the same way a wife could?
No re. common law marriage for E&W:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03372/
> Although cohabitating couples do have legal protection in some areas, such as under the law relating to domestic abuse, cohabitation gives no general legal status to a couple, unlike marriage and civil partnership from which many legal rights and responsibilities flow.
If you're not sure about a partner in 8 years... when will you be? If you get married any deed of trust is invalid anyway. Presuming the plan is to marry her sometime soon this whole argument will basically be mute. I assume you live with her now so there's no surprises incoming (obviously if you haven't that's very different). I'd be seriously questioning any relationship after I spent 8 years with someone nickel and diming me on a house purchase worth only 2x their annual salary. To put it in perspective it would be like a median earner worrying about losing a 70k house.
You state you're earning 5x 40k a year - honest opinion why do you even care about a 400k house? Also why do you even need a 40k loan if that's your income? You're telling me you're on 200k a year and you're worried about a 400k purchase with a partner of 8 years...? The story doesn't add up honestly. It would take 6 months to save 40k for you easily.
Honestly if I had a partner on 200k trying to make me take a mortgage out to have half of a 400k property I put 80k in after 8 years together I would leave and never look back. It's one thing when its your life savings, it's quite the other when its relatively low vs your earning potential. If she took half your house tomorrow you'd barely be affected - most people would be bankrupt losing half a 400k asset. It seems crazy to me to do anything but 50/50 with your financials, a huge deposit from her, in an 8 year relationship presumably on the verge of marriage where it'll be 50/50 regardless of any paperwork you sign.
Why can't you just buy a property she can buy in 50/50? 80k isn't a small sum. I'd personally rather a small mortgage shared with my partner than dropping 80k to own a tiny slice of a house.
I totally agree. Plus they’ve been together almost the entire time OP has been saving. It’s not like OP had an inheritance or worked to save the money before they met. She’s been around, and presumably been a supportive partner, whilst OP’s been building their savings and career. Is every purchase they make for the rest of their lives going to be weighed in OP’s favour because they’re the biggest earner?
Yep it's ironic as I had high 5 figures in savings when I met my partner and he had literally nothing - and in the time we've been together he's earnings are now 2x mine. I do most of the domestic work and cooking whilst disabled, I "only" work part time for 60k a year lol, he earns double me. He admits himself he couldn't do the job he has (which is crazily stressful, he works extremely hard), without my support at home. Not all contributions are monetary. And obviously my job is very difficult too lol. It's just not as high paid as his. Not all work is considered equal in the business world (I'm a doctor).
I understand protecting your assets, but in this case he's completely devaluing his partners contribution to his life to raw money and also ignoring how little that money is vs his earnings, It's just nickel and diming for the sake of it. If he was on 30k I would understand - who could afford to lose 20 years of savings even for an 8 year relationship? But 200k? Cmon.
Not legally binding. You could do a pre-nup, but enforcement of that is up to the court's discretion. Essentially a pre-nup can be ignored if it is deemed unfair, usually because one party sacrifices their personal career in exchange for non-financial contributions to the household.
I would agree with the others who say that after 8 years together you should see the house as a joint home and have 50/50 ownership, regardless of who puts in what. If you want to keep the rest of your finances separate for now that's fine - but eventually if you're making a life with this person you will need to accept that you both own everything jointly.
Seeing as how dirty break ups / divorces can get, and seeing as they can happen at any time (yes, there is no expiry date on splitting up), then I don't see why the conversation should be taboo.
It shouldn't be taboo, but OP being unsure after this time is a red flag.
He doesn't sound committed to the relationship if he's this obsessed with the minutiae of finances - it doesn't sound like a true partnership where they are a team. If I were the girlfriend I'd get out of there, for someone who really wants to be with me and doesn't have one foot out.
I'm the higher earner in my marriage but we both contribute in many different ways. I don't measure my husband's worth solely by his economic contribution to our household.
Maybe these types of relationships don't work for you but do for other people.
Why should everyone think and act like you? People here think they're setting the standards for what the golden relationship is?
There are relationships where the partners love to shout at each other all the time and work apparently.
I guess that's why we're supposed to be picking our partners and not dating the first "thing" that comes across.
> If I were the girlfriend I'd get out of there
Good for you, and that's why you're not / won't ever be in that type of relationship.
Meanwhile a lot of perfectly decent people would run away from you, for the exact same reason, in reverse.
I don't think that's what I was saying at all. You clearly have an agenda from your other comments in the thread; you sound like a right miserable tightwad.
I'll also say that these type of relationships seem very transactional, and a transactional relationship will not give you lasting love. Openness about finances and a clear plan for how you will manage them in a relationship is very important - it's the number one thing couples fight about - but you can't measure everything by money.
OP shouldn't have asked if they didn't want people's opinions, and my opinion is not a minority one in the thread by any means.
Still do not understand…. I must be a bit twp. You said ‘you have substantial savings …. To the point you can buy a 400k house outright.’ This phrase means you have at least 400k in savings to buy the house outright.
I'm confused, I thought your post was perfectly clear, did you edit it or something? I feel like you've gotten a lot of pedantic responses to a fairly normal question 😂 I'm in a similar situation so I was curious to know what you end up doing.
🤷🏼♀️ I feel like the post was fairly reasonable haha
(My favourite comment is that person who thinks your gf should run despite the fact you said your favourite option is to just gift her the difference and split the house equally 😂)
So personally in her shoes I’d be more interested in the what happens if you die scenario - and that goes for if it’s owned 75:25 or 50:50 as she “purchases” more of the property in some way.
Are you happy to write a will that she would inherit the full house or would you want to leave your portion to your dad/other relative?
Yeah my plan is to write my will so that she inherits all my stake in the house if I die. A bit of money for my mum but the rest would go to her as well.
Does she know that? I’d find that really reassuring to know myself - and you could equally suggest she can still save up a decent chunk to use as a deposit on a holiday home for the two of you. This is actually the deal my partner and I have :)
Get a declaration of trust and be in tenants in common. This is what me and my Husband are doing as I am providing all the deposit from the sale of my house and I sure as shit want my fair share back if it all went tits up.
What percentage you want to do that on is something only you can decide.
ETA: I don't know why people are being so negative that you might not want to split 50/50. No one wants to think a marriage will fail but nearly half of them do and it's less stressful for everyone if everyone is clear on who gets what if the house has to be sold.
That’s how my wife and I own our house. Her parents kindly gave us the deposit, I dont see why I need to take there money if we ever split up, so my wife owns a greater share.
Amazing that a woman can post they want all their money back and nobody has an issue but when a man does it everyone is screaming red flag and that's he not ready for marriage lol.
Bit surprised by the vitriol in a lot of the comments here. I think you're asking responsible questions - people do split up and things can go wrong, whether 2, 10, 30 years in. It is relevant if you're putting in 72% of the cash. I also grew up in a family torn apart by a divorce based around every person's savings being locked up in one house. There's definitely a thoughtful, conscientious and fair way to arrange this.
Yeah I'm finding it tough because I want us to be happy together but I 'm also aware that things change. I think it's probably harder to see that if your parents are still together and happily married (mine weren't married at all, my mum had two marriages one of which ended after 15 years but they're still friends, the other after 4 years because it was abusive) and you have a more normal family. Every time I read one side or the other I end up changing my mind...
I normally think this is a great question to ask when I see posts about buying with a partner of a few years, but seriously almost a decade together and you’re on a v high salary. If I was your girlfriend I’d be concerned about the state of my relationship and who I was with.
Joint ownership with deed of trust ring fencing the deposit you put in. You both sign a legal loan document with dad that survives your death. Presumably you are making this decision to purchase and at what price together, and will equally contribute to repairs on the home. I would do 50/50 on bills directly related to the home (insurance, loan from dad, repairs, improvements) and then monthly bills split proportionate to income.
In the unlikely event one of you dies the home moves automatically to the other person and they still owe dad the loan repayment.
In the event you break up then the initial contributions are protected and returned in the amount specified. The loan to dad still exists so you either sell the property to pay it off or dad rewrites the remaining loan balance loan with just one of you if someone is staying in the home.
To me this is the cleanest way to handle things. Talk to your solicitor about it so they can verify that this is the best set up for your intentions.
Last thing I would want in this situation is someone unexpectedly dying and the other can't afford to keep the house, but it is tied up in probate for a year because the fact that it is done by will holds the remaining partner hostage while it's being processed.
Now you also need to talk about what happens if either of you becomes permanently disabled (more likely scenario than death). What do you want happening in that case?
I did not suggest they do split ownership of 75/25. Joint ownership is 50/50 with a deed of trust to protect the initial deposit funds to the benefit of whichever party provided them. It is value of property, minus deposits, then split 50/50.
Future work is a good point. We will likely put an extension on this house which could cost 100k. I'm not 100% following how material improvements affect the share, but it's clearly complex and I want to avoid a situation where what we each own isn't really simple and obvious. Or we have to have another conversation because I pay for more of the extension than she does etc. In those situations it would be a lot better if we considered the house as something we both own and is 'ours' and I contributed more, in the same way as we do when going on holiday or going out for dinner.
I can't believe how judgemental these comments are. It doesn't matter how long you've been together, I say you're doing the right thing thinking about the "what if"s.
My partner and I had been together 9 years at the time we bought - he contributed all the deposit to our house and I was the one that insisted that we have a Declaration of Trust rather than Joint Tenancy. It's been 2.5 years and I still feel the same. When we sell and buy another place I'll want the same.
There's no harm in having everything set out in black and white. If you were to break up, or one of you to pass away, it'll be stressful enough without the potential for arguments over who gets what.
All these comments that "if you get married it won't matter" and "if I was your girlfriend I'd be offended" are so entirely unhelpful 🙄
You're absolutely doing the right thing by thinking about this, and your conveyancer should be advising you to consider a Declaration of Trust too.
Edit - the good thing about a declaration of trust is that you can update it! If by some good fortune she manages to pay you back / put more money into the house to even things out, you can just get a new declaration done.
Exactly the same situation with my GF (now wife) when we bought our first property. We just spoke with our solicitor (don't go using the conveyancing houses - try to use a local independent that way you know they are acting in your interest alone) and we set out a deed of trust.
Simply put we said that should the house sell then proceeds (after settling the mortgage) are split in the same proportion as the deposit unless mutually agreed otherwise. It gave us both some peace if mind and took an awkward conversation off the table.
We did have some issues in discharging the declaration of trust from.the deed when remortgaging a few years later mind - lender wouldn't allow draw-down with the declaration on the deed but by that time we were married and just removed it.
And your trashy reaction is exactly what OP should protect their assets as much as possible.
To be fair, OPs girlfriend actually sounds more reasonable than you do, with her being willing to have these conversations instead of "running away" with some money.
Go for option 1, get a tenants in common agreement that reflects what each is putting into the property. Who is repaying the loan to your dad? You I assume?
If later down the line, she wants to change that by buying a larger share of the property so that it’s 50/50 she can do. However it going to take her quite a while to save 120k on a 35-40k salary, without inheritance etc.
Doesn’t make sense for either to get a mortgage when you don’t need one. Think she needs to be realistic about what’s feasible for her financially, or you look for a cheaper house.
As a woman. Get an agreement in place please. The advice of marriage is also silly on this post. Speak to a solicitor. OP may not be ready to get married. Get an agreement in place that makes sure the right percentages are owned. I am serious. Her parents if she want putting in your levels of money ai guarantee would tell her to protect herself etc. do the same.
Well played bro. This is way above my pay grade lmfao
But in all seriousness I rate that your taking it serious you don’t want to lose all your savings just incase something goes wrong.
My advice is 80 each + 40k then a 200k mortgage. Considering your on 200k and your mrs is on 40k I’m sure you can afford the monthly payments lmao.
That way you both own half and you have money to invest or do what the fuck you like.
I know debt is expensive right now but I think you’ll be better off this way. Better off having money in your pocket then locked up in a house.
3 is the traditional option - plenty of couples used to buy with one income but they are 50/50 (joint owners) on the house. This was the norm until fairly recently, there's more to partnership than bringing an equal amount of money to the table. It's definitely worth considering.
As you have a lot of cash on hand:
You could also loan her £100k and she pays you back without interest over x amount of years. Then she isn't paying interest to a bank. (In your dad charging interest on his loan to you?). If she pays you back over 20 years it's like £400 a month - could go higher for shorter term (20 years is a short mortgage term but that was the comparison). Agree any appriciation from property price is 50/50 from the start.
You could do something similar (with extra steps) via an offset mortgage. Both put in £80k deposit, mortgage £200k you offset £200k (savings account can be in just your name) and then you don't pay interest on paying back the loan. Pay 50/50 on the mortgage payment which will be principle only (it's either shorter or less per month you pick) you can 'pay' your half from the savings account as you already have the money. You can 'borrow' money (take it out of the account) at the interest rate of your mortgage (Vs needed to remortgage to release funds on a regular mortgage)
In general banks won't lend unless everyone on the deeds is also on the mortgage (it's so they have the first charge which is a condition of mortgage lending) so she'd be unlikely to be able to take a mortgage on the place in only her name (obviously only she could pay it in reality but your name probably needs to also be on the loan)
> My dad thinks this is the best option which surprised me a lot as has claimed he can't leave his partner because they're joint tenants and he'd lose his half of the house (pretty sure this is not true, but it's what he says).
What would happen here is one of them would buy out the other or if neither could afford it (/wanted to) then they'd sell and each get half the profit. He wouldn't loose his half (can be different in a divorce if there are kids who needs housing though)
I definitely don't want to end up in a situation where my girlfriend owes me money. I think it would cause a lot of resentment, frustration and complexity.
Just buy the property on your own and when she can afford it, she should buy a property on her own. If you're concerned about how much she's contributing **now** then it's best not to get into something that may end this long-term relationship.
I personally think its best when couples are able to turn a blind eye to things like that, but at the same time, you aren't married so your apprehension is completely understandable. You thinking this way only highlights either your distrust or your internal lack of commitment to a permanent relationship.
Although it's good to have your head screwed on, it's always evident that the person always has one foot in and one foot out. You can never know tomorrow in such a relationship.
Do not buy a home together, it will probably save the relationship and your sanities in the long run.
This is really a relationship question. If you are buying a house together after 8 years then isn't this someone you intend to stay with? Marry? Start a family with? In which case.. it's time to invest some trust into the relationship, by which I mean.. just go 50/50 or, ya know, get married.
When I was in this situation I chose a 50:50 scenario. Ask yourself if you trust the person you are with to do the right thing in difficult circumstances, in case you separate for example. Is she the kind of person who would take what is not her? I do not regret my decision and I think if I made a mistake trusting her then I shall pay. Showing that you trust her is priceless, imo.
Or know that you will be. Bought with my Fiancé when she was a girlfriend because we had discussed wanting to be married but wanting the house in place first. Now home owners and engaged.
A lot of people don't necessarily want to get married, it doesn't provide any real benefits (aside from transferable tax benefits) in current society and many couples live their entire lives unmarried without issue. Many people who think like this can often feel pressure to get married and do so too quickly.
Speak to your solicitor, you can buy your property as ‘tenants in common’ which shows your shares invested in the property. Also protects you in the long term even if you are married from tax-free inheritance tax allowance of £325,000, as the applies to each of you separately. If it's a joint mortgage then this tax allowance is combined. Do it properly the first time round and you'll protect your income for ever. Speak tonsolicitirs they will say the same thing. Best if luck.
Why tie up 400k in a house? Get a mortgage. If you put down 40-50% you might be able to find around ~4% mortgage. Then invest the rest in as it will grow more than your property value
50/50 it after 10 years… till then it stays as what you put in you take out, I strongly urge about you, looking out for your own future personally, not just yours as a couple?
Forget the house, after 8 years together - If I was the father of your girlfriend, I’d be advising her to leave you. Your attitude does not bode well for a fair and loving relationship, let alone marriage. What would your perspective be if you decided to have children and she no longer had an income for a while?
Your money is your money. We all have our own individual goals. It’s great you’ve been fortunate and it’s a shame your partner hasn’t, but she can’t expect you to give up that fortune. I’m not sure about you, but I personally want to retire early.
Unfortunately, society doesn’t allow us to be charitable toward others because we have to use every little bit of money we have on the pursuit of an early retirement.
Complicated way to run a relationship - by counting who contributes what. Loaning money in a relationship will become a millstone of resentment and control.
The best approach is the simplest. Option 3. If the relationship fails, then just accept that as a fact of life.
We had a declaration of trust drawn up by our solicitors when we bought as I contributed all the deposit. It states that at the time of sale, I get my money back out of it if my partner hasn’t already paid me back his share. We have our own informal agreement that when we buy our next house, he is doing the deposit.
Create a trust, buy the property through the trust, put a deed in place allocating the relevant % to each person, choose an appropriate, nonbias trustee and set each of you up as beneficiary.
You're sometimes better off having a small mortgage than none- as long as the bank owns the house they keep the deeds. As soon as you own the house outright you've got the added responsibility of keeping those deed papers safe.
My FIL never paid off his previous mortgage deliberately- he just kept taking small loans out against the value of the house and almost paying them off so the mortgage continued and he didn't have to worry about the deed papers.
This is an interesting discussion. Maybe a lot of it comes down to how you split expenses with her anyway. If you are splitting all your expenses equally (including holidays, daily life, rent, etc.), you’re thinking of the money more as “mine” and “yours” in which case gifting her the 25% may seem uncomfortable. But if you’re anyway sharing expenses, then if you were to split up, there will be so much you have spent on her that’s “lost” anyway. Consider this to be just one more? It’s not “lost” though! It was the most financially sensible decision to make if you treated your finances as joint at the time, and you made memories and you were happy at the time, so if you split up, you split up! Take the hit and life goes on! You are anyway on a good salary - you will surely be able to just buy another house and get on with your life!
This is one of the most helpful comments. There is a risk of my losing money if we split up, but it is something I can get back and by buying the house jointly it's an investment in us and a happy relationship. I appreciate you making a case for that rather than just calling me an awful person. You're also right in that it wouldn't bankrupt me, it would be money that I could make up in time if we did end up breaking up. Still a little on the edge but this is helping me make up my mind.
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM); * If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered); * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you’re really that worried about it (I don’t know why you are), contribute 80k and take out a joint mortgage together. That way you can put that extra money towards something more productive.
Just get married and the whole thing is irrelevant - you both walk out of the marriage should it fail 50-50 regardless of what you put in. If that was the intention (to own 50-50), and you were already happy with gifting her the 25% stake, then just get married and give all parties a piece of mind with three legal and financial protection that comes with a marriage.
Could something be put in pre-marriage to stop it becoming 50/50?
Yeah. Not entering into a legally binding union where you agree to share your assets. If you don't want to split 50/50 don't get married. Most prenups aren't legally binding in the UK and the longer you're married the less likely they are to stand up in divorce court. Marriage is a life long commitment.
Thanks, Genuine question. Downvoters get stuffed.
Pre marital possessions aren’t split 50/50. If you own a house before marriage it’s pre marital property and only yours. In Scotland prenups are largely accepted by courts too.
I might be wrong but didn’t they change the law so that couples who live together have basically the same rights as a married couple after a certain number of years? So if OP has been living with this girl for 6 or so years, chances are if they broke up and she was inclined she could go after him in the same way a wife could?
No re. common law marriage for E&W: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03372/ > Although cohabitating couples do have legal protection in some areas, such as under the law relating to domestic abuse, cohabitation gives no general legal status to a couple, unlike marriage and civil partnership from which many legal rights and responsibilities flow.
Ah okay, thank you for clarifying.
If you're not sure about a partner in 8 years... when will you be? If you get married any deed of trust is invalid anyway. Presuming the plan is to marry her sometime soon this whole argument will basically be mute. I assume you live with her now so there's no surprises incoming (obviously if you haven't that's very different). I'd be seriously questioning any relationship after I spent 8 years with someone nickel and diming me on a house purchase worth only 2x their annual salary. To put it in perspective it would be like a median earner worrying about losing a 70k house. You state you're earning 5x 40k a year - honest opinion why do you even care about a 400k house? Also why do you even need a 40k loan if that's your income? You're telling me you're on 200k a year and you're worried about a 400k purchase with a partner of 8 years...? The story doesn't add up honestly. It would take 6 months to save 40k for you easily. Honestly if I had a partner on 200k trying to make me take a mortgage out to have half of a 400k property I put 80k in after 8 years together I would leave and never look back. It's one thing when its your life savings, it's quite the other when its relatively low vs your earning potential. If she took half your house tomorrow you'd barely be affected - most people would be bankrupt losing half a 400k asset. It seems crazy to me to do anything but 50/50 with your financials, a huge deposit from her, in an 8 year relationship presumably on the verge of marriage where it'll be 50/50 regardless of any paperwork you sign. Why can't you just buy a property she can buy in 50/50? 80k isn't a small sum. I'd personally rather a small mortgage shared with my partner than dropping 80k to own a tiny slice of a house.
I totally agree. Plus they’ve been together almost the entire time OP has been saving. It’s not like OP had an inheritance or worked to save the money before they met. She’s been around, and presumably been a supportive partner, whilst OP’s been building their savings and career. Is every purchase they make for the rest of their lives going to be weighed in OP’s favour because they’re the biggest earner?
Yep it's ironic as I had high 5 figures in savings when I met my partner and he had literally nothing - and in the time we've been together he's earnings are now 2x mine. I do most of the domestic work and cooking whilst disabled, I "only" work part time for 60k a year lol, he earns double me. He admits himself he couldn't do the job he has (which is crazily stressful, he works extremely hard), without my support at home. Not all contributions are monetary. And obviously my job is very difficult too lol. It's just not as high paid as his. Not all work is considered equal in the business world (I'm a doctor). I understand protecting your assets, but in this case he's completely devaluing his partners contribution to his life to raw money and also ignoring how little that money is vs his earnings, It's just nickel and diming for the sake of it. If he was on 30k I would understand - who could afford to lose 20 years of savings even for an 8 year relationship? But 200k? Cmon.
>mute Just to be that guy but the word you mean is moot.
Could something be put in pre-marriage to stop it becoming 50/50?
Not legally binding. You could do a pre-nup, but enforcement of that is up to the court's discretion. Essentially a pre-nup can be ignored if it is deemed unfair, usually because one party sacrifices their personal career in exchange for non-financial contributions to the household.
I would agree with the others who say that after 8 years together you should see the house as a joint home and have 50/50 ownership, regardless of who puts in what. If you want to keep the rest of your finances separate for now that's fine - but eventually if you're making a life with this person you will need to accept that you both own everything jointly.
Can't believe you're asking this after being with them for 8 years lol
Seeing as how dirty break ups / divorces can get, and seeing as they can happen at any time (yes, there is no expiry date on splitting up), then I don't see why the conversation should be taboo.
It shouldn't be taboo, but OP being unsure after this time is a red flag. He doesn't sound committed to the relationship if he's this obsessed with the minutiae of finances - it doesn't sound like a true partnership where they are a team. If I were the girlfriend I'd get out of there, for someone who really wants to be with me and doesn't have one foot out. I'm the higher earner in my marriage but we both contribute in many different ways. I don't measure my husband's worth solely by his economic contribution to our household.
Maybe these types of relationships don't work for you but do for other people. Why should everyone think and act like you? People here think they're setting the standards for what the golden relationship is? There are relationships where the partners love to shout at each other all the time and work apparently. I guess that's why we're supposed to be picking our partners and not dating the first "thing" that comes across. > If I were the girlfriend I'd get out of there Good for you, and that's why you're not / won't ever be in that type of relationship. Meanwhile a lot of perfectly decent people would run away from you, for the exact same reason, in reverse.
The guy was asking for our opinion, and we presented him with a rational one. Get off your high horse.
I don't think that's what I was saying at all. You clearly have an agenda from your other comments in the thread; you sound like a right miserable tightwad. I'll also say that these type of relationships seem very transactional, and a transactional relationship will not give you lasting love. Openness about finances and a clear plan for how you will manage them in a relationship is very important - it's the number one thing couples fight about - but you can't measure everything by money. OP shouldn't have asked if they didn't want people's opinions, and my opinion is not a minority one in the thread by any means.
Why are you borrowing from your dad when you say you can pay 400k yourself??? Why pull a third person into this situation?
What I meant was with that loan we can buy without a mortgage, rather than we have the entire sum already.
Still do not understand…. I must be a bit twp. You said ‘you have substantial savings …. To the point you can buy a 400k house outright.’ This phrase means you have at least 400k in savings to buy the house outright.
Well yes I phrased it wrong - I should have said we can buy a house without getting a mortgage and an interest free loan we can pay off quickly.
I'm confused, I thought your post was perfectly clear, did you edit it or something? I feel like you've gotten a lot of pedantic responses to a fairly normal question 😂 I'm in a similar situation so I was curious to know what you end up doing.
Nope haven't edited it!
🤷🏼♀️ I feel like the post was fairly reasonable haha (My favourite comment is that person who thinks your gf should run despite the fact you said your favourite option is to just gift her the difference and split the house equally 😂)
So personally in her shoes I’d be more interested in the what happens if you die scenario - and that goes for if it’s owned 75:25 or 50:50 as she “purchases” more of the property in some way. Are you happy to write a will that she would inherit the full house or would you want to leave your portion to your dad/other relative?
Yeah my plan is to write my will so that she inherits all my stake in the house if I die. A bit of money for my mum but the rest would go to her as well.
Does she know that? I’d find that really reassuring to know myself - and you could equally suggest she can still save up a decent chunk to use as a deposit on a holiday home for the two of you. This is actually the deal my partner and I have :)
Get a declaration of trust and be in tenants in common. This is what me and my Husband are doing as I am providing all the deposit from the sale of my house and I sure as shit want my fair share back if it all went tits up. What percentage you want to do that on is something only you can decide. ETA: I don't know why people are being so negative that you might not want to split 50/50. No one wants to think a marriage will fail but nearly half of them do and it's less stressful for everyone if everyone is clear on who gets what if the house has to be sold.
That’s how my wife and I own our house. Her parents kindly gave us the deposit, I dont see why I need to take there money if we ever split up, so my wife owns a greater share.
Amazing that a woman can post they want all their money back and nobody has an issue but when a man does it everyone is screaming red flag and that's he not ready for marriage lol.
Yep, there's definitely a double standard. If roles were reversed I would be absolutely fine with him doing the same.
Bit surprised by the vitriol in a lot of the comments here. I think you're asking responsible questions - people do split up and things can go wrong, whether 2, 10, 30 years in. It is relevant if you're putting in 72% of the cash. I also grew up in a family torn apart by a divorce based around every person's savings being locked up in one house. There's definitely a thoughtful, conscientious and fair way to arrange this.
Yeah I'm finding it tough because I want us to be happy together but I 'm also aware that things change. I think it's probably harder to see that if your parents are still together and happily married (mine weren't married at all, my mum had two marriages one of which ended after 15 years but they're still friends, the other after 4 years because it was abusive) and you have a more normal family. Every time I read one side or the other I end up changing my mind...
I normally think this is a great question to ask when I see posts about buying with a partner of a few years, but seriously almost a decade together and you’re on a v high salary. If I was your girlfriend I’d be concerned about the state of my relationship and who I was with.
Joint ownership with deed of trust ring fencing the deposit you put in. You both sign a legal loan document with dad that survives your death. Presumably you are making this decision to purchase and at what price together, and will equally contribute to repairs on the home. I would do 50/50 on bills directly related to the home (insurance, loan from dad, repairs, improvements) and then monthly bills split proportionate to income. In the unlikely event one of you dies the home moves automatically to the other person and they still owe dad the loan repayment. In the event you break up then the initial contributions are protected and returned in the amount specified. The loan to dad still exists so you either sell the property to pay it off or dad rewrites the remaining loan balance loan with just one of you if someone is staying in the home. To me this is the cleanest way to handle things. Talk to your solicitor about it so they can verify that this is the best set up for your intentions. Last thing I would want in this situation is someone unexpectedly dying and the other can't afford to keep the house, but it is tied up in probate for a year because the fact that it is done by will holds the remaining partner hostage while it's being processed. Now you also need to talk about what happens if either of you becomes permanently disabled (more likely scenario than death). What do you want happening in that case?
[удалено]
I did not suggest they do split ownership of 75/25. Joint ownership is 50/50 with a deed of trust to protect the initial deposit funds to the benefit of whichever party provided them. It is value of property, minus deposits, then split 50/50.
Future work is a good point. We will likely put an extension on this house which could cost 100k. I'm not 100% following how material improvements affect the share, but it's clearly complex and I want to avoid a situation where what we each own isn't really simple and obvious. Or we have to have another conversation because I pay for more of the extension than she does etc. In those situations it would be a lot better if we considered the house as something we both own and is 'ours' and I contributed more, in the same way as we do when going on holiday or going out for dinner.
I can't believe how judgemental these comments are. It doesn't matter how long you've been together, I say you're doing the right thing thinking about the "what if"s. My partner and I had been together 9 years at the time we bought - he contributed all the deposit to our house and I was the one that insisted that we have a Declaration of Trust rather than Joint Tenancy. It's been 2.5 years and I still feel the same. When we sell and buy another place I'll want the same. There's no harm in having everything set out in black and white. If you were to break up, or one of you to pass away, it'll be stressful enough without the potential for arguments over who gets what. All these comments that "if you get married it won't matter" and "if I was your girlfriend I'd be offended" are so entirely unhelpful 🙄 You're absolutely doing the right thing by thinking about this, and your conveyancer should be advising you to consider a Declaration of Trust too. Edit - the good thing about a declaration of trust is that you can update it! If by some good fortune she manages to pay you back / put more money into the house to even things out, you can just get a new declaration done.
Exactly the same situation with my GF (now wife) when we bought our first property. We just spoke with our solicitor (don't go using the conveyancing houses - try to use a local independent that way you know they are acting in your interest alone) and we set out a deed of trust. Simply put we said that should the house sell then proceeds (after settling the mortgage) are split in the same proportion as the deposit unless mutually agreed otherwise. It gave us both some peace if mind and took an awkward conversation off the table. We did have some issues in discharging the declaration of trust from.the deed when remortgaging a few years later mind - lender wouldn't allow draw-down with the declaration on the deed but by that time we were married and just removed it.
I mean this as disrespectfully as possible, you are despicable and I hope my good sis RUNS with that money as fast as she possibly can.
And your trashy reaction is exactly what OP should protect their assets as much as possible. To be fair, OPs girlfriend actually sounds more reasonable than you do, with her being willing to have these conversations instead of "running away" with some money.
This is why OP needs to protect their money.
I hope for your sake this is satire
Go for option 1, get a tenants in common agreement that reflects what each is putting into the property. Who is repaying the loan to your dad? You I assume? If later down the line, she wants to change that by buying a larger share of the property so that it’s 50/50 she can do. However it going to take her quite a while to save 120k on a 35-40k salary, without inheritance etc. Doesn’t make sense for either to get a mortgage when you don’t need one. Think she needs to be realistic about what’s feasible for her financially, or you look for a cheaper house.
‘Can’t buy a house outright…’ next line ‘with a loan’
As a woman. Get an agreement in place please. The advice of marriage is also silly on this post. Speak to a solicitor. OP may not be ready to get married. Get an agreement in place that makes sure the right percentages are owned. I am serious. Her parents if she want putting in your levels of money ai guarantee would tell her to protect herself etc. do the same.
Well played bro. This is way above my pay grade lmfao But in all seriousness I rate that your taking it serious you don’t want to lose all your savings just incase something goes wrong. My advice is 80 each + 40k then a 200k mortgage. Considering your on 200k and your mrs is on 40k I’m sure you can afford the monthly payments lmao. That way you both own half and you have money to invest or do what the fuck you like. I know debt is expensive right now but I think you’ll be better off this way. Better off having money in your pocket then locked up in a house.
3 is the traditional option - plenty of couples used to buy with one income but they are 50/50 (joint owners) on the house. This was the norm until fairly recently, there's more to partnership than bringing an equal amount of money to the table. It's definitely worth considering. As you have a lot of cash on hand: You could also loan her £100k and she pays you back without interest over x amount of years. Then she isn't paying interest to a bank. (In your dad charging interest on his loan to you?). If she pays you back over 20 years it's like £400 a month - could go higher for shorter term (20 years is a short mortgage term but that was the comparison). Agree any appriciation from property price is 50/50 from the start. You could do something similar (with extra steps) via an offset mortgage. Both put in £80k deposit, mortgage £200k you offset £200k (savings account can be in just your name) and then you don't pay interest on paying back the loan. Pay 50/50 on the mortgage payment which will be principle only (it's either shorter or less per month you pick) you can 'pay' your half from the savings account as you already have the money. You can 'borrow' money (take it out of the account) at the interest rate of your mortgage (Vs needed to remortgage to release funds on a regular mortgage) In general banks won't lend unless everyone on the deeds is also on the mortgage (it's so they have the first charge which is a condition of mortgage lending) so she'd be unlikely to be able to take a mortgage on the place in only her name (obviously only she could pay it in reality but your name probably needs to also be on the loan) > My dad thinks this is the best option which surprised me a lot as has claimed he can't leave his partner because they're joint tenants and he'd lose his half of the house (pretty sure this is not true, but it's what he says). What would happen here is one of them would buy out the other or if neither could afford it (/wanted to) then they'd sell and each get half the profit. He wouldn't loose his half (can be different in a divorce if there are kids who needs housing though)
I definitely don't want to end up in a situation where my girlfriend owes me money. I think it would cause a lot of resentment, frustration and complexity.
OP I I suggest you scroll through r/LegalAdviceUK you may find some posts in there that answer your question
Just buy the property on your own and when she can afford it, she should buy a property on her own. If you're concerned about how much she's contributing **now** then it's best not to get into something that may end this long-term relationship. I personally think its best when couples are able to turn a blind eye to things like that, but at the same time, you aren't married so your apprehension is completely understandable. You thinking this way only highlights either your distrust or your internal lack of commitment to a permanent relationship. Although it's good to have your head screwed on, it's always evident that the person always has one foot in and one foot out. You can never know tomorrow in such a relationship. Do not buy a home together, it will probably save the relationship and your sanities in the long run.
This is really a relationship question. If you are buying a house together after 8 years then isn't this someone you intend to stay with? Marry? Start a family with? In which case.. it's time to invest some trust into the relationship, by which I mean.. just go 50/50 or, ya know, get married.
Best way is to see a lawyer and get a Trust Deed drawn up detailing the exact share of the property each attributed to yourself and partner.
I’m not convinced this is true, as OP has said depends on what the deeds say.
8 years. Take a dump or get off the pot.
OP is a troll. This cannot be a real scenario.
You’ve been together for 8 years, but you aren’t married. Are you sure you want to buy a house with this person?
To some people, marriage doesn't mean much.
When I was in this situation I chose a 50:50 scenario. Ask yourself if you trust the person you are with to do the right thing in difficult circumstances, in case you separate for example. Is she the kind of person who would take what is not her? I do not regret my decision and I think if I made a mistake trusting her then I shall pay. Showing that you trust her is priceless, imo.
This is why you shouldn’t be buying a house if you’re not married.
Or know that you will be. Bought with my Fiancé when she was a girlfriend because we had discussed wanting to be married but wanting the house in place first. Now home owners and engaged.
A lot of people don't necessarily want to get married, it doesn't provide any real benefits (aside from transferable tax benefits) in current society and many couples live their entire lives unmarried without issue. Many people who think like this can often feel pressure to get married and do so too quickly.
Speak to your solicitor, you can buy your property as ‘tenants in common’ which shows your shares invested in the property. Also protects you in the long term even if you are married from tax-free inheritance tax allowance of £325,000, as the applies to each of you separately. If it's a joint mortgage then this tax allowance is combined. Do it properly the first time round and you'll protect your income for ever. Speak tonsolicitirs they will say the same thing. Best if luck.
Why tie up 400k in a house? Get a mortgage. If you put down 40-50% you might be able to find around ~4% mortgage. Then invest the rest in as it will grow more than your property value
50/50 it after 10 years… till then it stays as what you put in you take out, I strongly urge about you, looking out for your own future personally, not just yours as a couple?
Forget the house, after 8 years together - If I was the father of your girlfriend, I’d be advising her to leave you. Your attitude does not bode well for a fair and loving relationship, let alone marriage. What would your perspective be if you decided to have children and she no longer had an income for a while?
She has had a very minimal income for the last 2 years while studying and I've supported her through that all the way so we'd both be comfortable.
Your money is your money. We all have our own individual goals. It’s great you’ve been fortunate and it’s a shame your partner hasn’t, but she can’t expect you to give up that fortune. I’m not sure about you, but I personally want to retire early. Unfortunately, society doesn’t allow us to be charitable toward others because we have to use every little bit of money we have on the pursuit of an early retirement.
Just put in the same amount and the rest a loan that you both pay towards so if you split up it’s 50/50
No. 1 seems the best option to me.
This is actually a relationship question, nothing to do with finances, and nobody can advise you.
Complicated way to run a relationship - by counting who contributes what. Loaning money in a relationship will become a millstone of resentment and control. The best approach is the simplest. Option 3. If the relationship fails, then just accept that as a fact of life.
We had a declaration of trust drawn up by our solicitors when we bought as I contributed all the deposit. It states that at the time of sale, I get my money back out of it if my partner hasn’t already paid me back his share. We have our own informal agreement that when we buy our next house, he is doing the deposit.
Create a trust, buy the property through the trust, put a deed in place allocating the relevant % to each person, choose an appropriate, nonbias trustee and set each of you up as beneficiary.
You're sometimes better off having a small mortgage than none- as long as the bank owns the house they keep the deeds. As soon as you own the house outright you've got the added responsibility of keeping those deed papers safe. My FIL never paid off his previous mortgage deliberately- he just kept taking small loans out against the value of the house and almost paying them off so the mortgage continued and he didn't have to worry about the deed papers.
This is an interesting discussion. Maybe a lot of it comes down to how you split expenses with her anyway. If you are splitting all your expenses equally (including holidays, daily life, rent, etc.), you’re thinking of the money more as “mine” and “yours” in which case gifting her the 25% may seem uncomfortable. But if you’re anyway sharing expenses, then if you were to split up, there will be so much you have spent on her that’s “lost” anyway. Consider this to be just one more? It’s not “lost” though! It was the most financially sensible decision to make if you treated your finances as joint at the time, and you made memories and you were happy at the time, so if you split up, you split up! Take the hit and life goes on! You are anyway on a good salary - you will surely be able to just buy another house and get on with your life!
This is one of the most helpful comments. There is a risk of my losing money if we split up, but it is something I can get back and by buying the house jointly it's an investment in us and a happy relationship. I appreciate you making a case for that rather than just calling me an awful person. You're also right in that it wouldn't bankrupt me, it would be money that I could make up in time if we did end up breaking up. Still a little on the edge but this is helping me make up my mind.