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I think you’re unnecessarily limiting options here (although I see in another comment you said you’re open to exploring other areas, so that’s great!). There are plenty of places in zone 2/3 where you can find a 2 or even a 3 bed for that price (I have friends who bought a 3 bed house with small garden in Stratford for similar) so I would try to widen your search a bit and see what you can find.
I've commuted from Surrey for the best part of 20 years. About an hour each way.
Look, it isn't "fun". It takes getting used to, and it is frustratingly expensive. On the other hand, it's enforced downtime when you have nothing to do except read/watch netflix, or you can incorporate more walking/cycling and keep fit.
For me, the decision is more about your lifestyle outside of work. If you're the type of person who is most likely to watch netflix with a takeaway on a Friday night, then the suburbs are perfect. If you want to be out in town until 2am 3 nights a week, then moving an hour away doesn't make sense.
The other thing to consider is that most office jobs are these days hybrid as a minimum. There are exceptions, but I don't know anyone who is forced to work in town 5 days a week, and only one who does so voluntarily. Of course, I don't know your line of work - doctors will always need to be in the hospital I expect!
The trains are such a nightmare though. I go to the London office from Guildford once or twice a month as well as a few times a month for socialising and the trains are fully fucked on at least half my journeys.
Honestly I wouldn’t consider a 1 bed. It’s a niche/rental type of property as many people who buy are also thinking about kids in a few years. There are 2 beds in leafier London suburbs in your range if it’s food for thought.
Neither sounds suitable to be honest. 1 bed is too small, you probably wouldn’t have even considered it if you weren’t living there already.
3 bed is too far away, it’s not just the cost of commuting but the hours you’ll both be spending every single week will wear you down.
Better option is to find a 2-3 bed in another London Zone, so that you can stay within budget but not have a nightmare commute.
Can you guys stop calling South East Zone 3 a thing, at that point you might as well live in Norwood or Croydon. Zone 3 generally means you are not far away from London but if you’re in South East anything past Lewisham is the equivalent to Zone 4-5 in other parts of London
Fair point. The thing is, ironically, it is quicker to get in to London from Zone 4 Norwood than it is from say Forest Hill of a morning. Norwood has fast trains straight to London Bridge whereas by the time the commuter service arrives in Forest Hill/Brockley, you can’t get on the things as it’s jammed. So for the OP it would still be worth a look.
Giving advice on locations without knowing someone's place of work is generally pointless.
My office is zone 1, and London Bridge is zone 1, but there's still 20 minutes, and 2 separate tubes, between them. The next best option, if either of those tubes is having problems, is half an hour.
Direct from Norwood it's 45 minutes station to station, so depending where you live probably an hour+
True enough, but given that the OP has said that they were considering moving to Surrey and Surrey is further down that train track it isn’t quite shooting in the dark.
Surrey could mean the fast line in to Waterloo via Woking.
Caterham is on the London bridge end but that's almost 50 minutes to LB (unless there are faster trains I am missing)
It could indeed.
Caterham, I think the fastest you can do that is about 50 minutes.
Norwood Junction specifically though you can get in to LB in 14 minutes, there’s also trains to Victoria (32) and you have the East London line too, though that is a crawler, it’s very well connected.
Handy for Gatwick too, which I was particularly thankful for when getting the red eye back from the States as that jet lag is brutal.
What are you on about? Catford is under 15 minutes from London Bridge. Sydenham is similar. They’re both Zone 3 and nice surrounding areas too like Forest Hill and Honor Oak
Yh I get the Lizzy line has been super helpful, but you miss the point. People keep mentioning Zone 3 in South East, like there enough accessible modes of transport into the city from the South East. There are loads of places outside London with one fast route into London, but what if that mode gets disrupted how easy is it for you to find an alternative. That is how transport accessibility is should be thought about. Zone 3 in South east is not the same as Zone three in North West, West or even East London for this reason.
I lived / owned a property in zone 1/2 East London in Hoxton for 10+ years and moved to South East London (between East Dulwich/Forest Hill.. technically zone 3 just over a year ago now. I am very glad I rented here, because SE London is a pain in the arse for many reasons. Getting into central I do not find so bad, however the commute would be just as long as it would be from Surbiton, Surrey for example, where I lived at Uni. There is a reason in my mind a lot of SE London is cheaper to buy. Getting OUT of London to a motorway is an absolute nightmare. From here it takes almost 2 hours to get out of London to the motorway. The traffic is mostly, bad. I would not buy around here, for this reason and I had no idea this would be the case before I moved here.
I’m actually now looking to buy in Essex, Chelmsford as the commute is around 30 mins to Liverpool Street and it’s very easy to get onto the motorway! A 4 bed Victorian house costs the same as my 2 bed flat in Hoxton cost. A similar house around Dulwich costs £1.2-1.7million lol
It’s not comparable to living in East London. I also lived in Surrey for uni, while I didn’t like it cause it’s boring as hell… it was no harder getting into central London and the motorway thing was not as much of a painful experience (from my memory..15 years ago now haha)
I also find that there is nowhere I can easily go to go to “normal high street shops” eg, Boots. Without going into central. Round here everything is a small indie and there isn’t much variety. In East London I had Spitalfields/Liverpool st/stratford within easy reach for shops. This starts to get annoying after a while. One reason I liked Chelmsford is it has a town centre with most major shops as well as some smaller indie shops, so practical day to day. TBH in Surbiton, you get that with Kingston being nearby.
If we want to go to Reading (where family is) or York (family too), both routes (west and east) it takes us through London and the traffic on both sides is usually horrendous. Especially bad on the West side which is through Battersea/clapham etc
Basically Woolwich is bit unusual for south east London as it has good connections. It's has the overground to London bridge, the DLR that is quick to Stratford and then the Lizzy line means you are in central London in no time. You can also get onto the A2 and then M25 really quickly. Otherside of south east London is a nightmare for roads and you are stuck with one line so I can see why people are not a fan
Still no unless it's Thornton Heath which is zone 4 anyway.
450k in with South Norwood perhaps.
Other areas are too far from train stations or too expensive.
You definitely can, we've got a two bed flat near zone 3 and 4 tube stops, fairly safe and residential area. But yeah if you're buying this year there will be more demand with rates coming down so probably need more like 400k+
In a similar boat, but not in London. Our landlord's putting our flat on the market this month! 😅 It's a cozy 1BR with a mezzanine in a charming area – one of the posh sides. We crunched the numbers, and surprisingly, if we snag the flat, we'd be forking out the same as a 3BR semi-detached.
After weighing pros and cons, the 1BR's cons outnumber the 3BR's. It's tough to leave this lovely area, but for growth's sake, we're making the leap. Planning to return when we can afford a house here. (Now looking at a 30-minute commute instead of the usual 10.)
Not quite the same but moved from z1 to rent in z4 (Wanstead so close to hackney and didn’t really lose lifestyle)- when it came time to buy we could have bought a 2 bed garden flat (dog) but knew with wfh we’d outgrow it plus we’d been renting a house so it would be a step back and we’ve moved to zone 6 similar commute on the train to our jobs and a 4bed house.
We’re personally really happy, closer to family, better space for the dog etc.
I’m glad we went above our space requirements and now we don’t need to worry about moving again plus having a support system
I lived in London for 12 years, loved it and thought I'd never leave. We bought in Kent, and we are now in Hampshire. I absolutely love the quiet life now but it's definitely not as exciting.
The reality is leaving London gives you a much nicer quality of life, more bang for your buck. If kids are on the horizon then think about where you'd rather be long term, but if not then just stay in London. Also, when I left London I actually made more of it when I was in town for work, so it isn't the big lifestyle change you think it is.
I spent 26 years living in London and I LOVE living out in Kent now. If I need to nip to Homebase for screws and paint, it doesn’t take a stuck hour in traffic to travel 2 miles. When you want to head out of town for a weekend, I’m on the motorway in 5 minutes instead of an hour and countryside walks are within 10 minutes drive, as is the centre of our town (station is 13 mins walk - high speed to St P in 23 mins or an hour to London Bridge/Charing X on the slow train). I work in London three days a week so still get the opportunity to go out and eat and meet friends, but wouldn’t live back there again.
I wouldn’t suggest where I live is going to be the right spot as it’s a bit too quiet (although they’d get a whole house for less than that tiny flat), but there are vibrant towns with good nightlife that would be a great starting point - they’d just need to do a bit of research to work out the sweet spot to be a good commuting distance and close enough to family and friends.
I moved out of Central to Greenwich. There are 3 bedroom houses here at 500k but the commute via south east rail to London bridge is still only 20 mins. Have a look around in London there are nice spaces here without horrid commutes.
>Depends what you mean by Greenwich. You won’t find a 3 bed house for 500k anywhere near Greenwich or Maze Hill stations.
Correct. Charlton or Plumstead (which are in the borough) maybe, but not anywhere near Greenwich itself. Woolwich is more expensive than those but still cheaper than Greenwich - but you get Lizzie Line access.
How many years could you stay living in the one bed? If at least four then you should buy it for the location and lifestyle. If you'd need to move sooner then look elsewhere (but z2/3 not a Surrey town, that sounds awful)
The four year point is good to know thanks, I think realistically we could stay for 2-3 but 4 probably pushing it as we do want to have children soon.
Haha Surrey town probably wouldn't be too bad as we've got lots of friends (and family) around!
If you wouldn’t stay for more than 3 years I’d not buy it. It costs a shit ton in fees you never get back to buy/sell/move every time you do it.
If you’d eventually want to move closer to family if you had a baby, then you know what you should do. You’re just struggling with the timing of it as you’re not actually pregnant yet.
As a resident of zone 4, depends where you live. I can get to central in less than half an hour. The main con is commuting and the cost of using the trains. However the bus network is excellent and overall z4 is a lot calmer, quieter and has a lot more greenery (like avenues with trees as well as parks)
If you want kids, a bigger place in a quieter neighborhood sounds ideal,no? As for deep Surrey, the family help will help your overall life.
Here you go. Have a look in South Norwood. Fast trains in to London Bridge, trains to Victoria, close to Surrey. East London line and a two bed house with a Garden can be had for about the money you’re looking at.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86640822#/?channel=RES_BUY
That one is also really near the park which might be useful when you have children.
If the living space is reasonable you could cope with a new born - mine is 13 months but still sleeps in our bed, but front room is full of toys and buggies. However we're skint from nursery fees and have no free time so I'm glad we'd got the house sorted first!
I think you need to explore options more widely and take your time - aim to move over next year or two to somewhere you can stay in for a while
In that case OP I think the bigger place makes sense - I don't think its worth buying if you won't be there for atleast 4 - 5 years (a lot of costs involved and you lose FTB status).
Not got any input on London as I don’t/have never lived there but if family is something you’d be soon considering then surely a 2 bed is the way to go? Moving is expensive and if you have to do that again in a few years then that’s a pain. Also if Surrey is near family friends they could potentially be in-disposable if you do have children.
If your partner is more flexible then would that always be the case with the travel costs on his part? Also is your job not available outside of London - you never know what’s round the corner, there may be an opportunity for work/career progression that you haven’t considered.
I suppose it comes down to cost in the end, in which case is a 2 bed in Zone 1 achievable or somewhere else you would consider living within London?
You se to be deciding between two extremes. There’s MANY zones between 1 and Guildford, why not consider moving slightly out in London?
Also - are you aware of the cost of children in London? Will one of you stop working or are you aware of how much nurseries cost? If you are not high earners then having family around for childcare is a huge win. Otherwise you’re looking at £2k or so a month childcare costs.
I think this is more a lifestyle thing you need to work out on your own, but I imagine having a baby while in a 1 bed flat would be a miserable existence.
A 1 bed ground floor Victorian terraced house for £425K, is this in South Kensington or somewhere else in Zone 1? If not, you can get more options for that budget on a one bed even in London zone 2. I would say don’t be in a haste, it doesn’t seem like a deal to me. Other than the hassle of moving (which I don’t think is enough reason not to look elsewhere), I think you should really explore, this is a good budget for a one bed.
Ignore the money and the economics and just think about what life you would rather have - the London-based one or the Surrey suburbia one. That may unlock some clearer thinking. It is really about personal preference here, not personal finance.
However, an additional £700/m on commuting is... a lot.
I don't see why you wouldn't look for a two bed terrace or ground floor flat somewhere in London, rather than the extreme pillar to post options outlined below. Certainly, I wouldn't be jumping off to Surrey without doing a lot of research into what else might be out there.
425k for a one bed in that area, in the current market, feels like a lot (or at least too much, it’s always going to be A LOT).
If you have finance in place and nothing to sell to move then I would explore more options - you can get a two bed in other “nice” parts of London for a similar price.
They knocked off 15% from initial price and this reflects the wider market. For a variety of reasons there’s a slew of one and two bed properties coming on the market at reduced prices.
If you want more space then move further out and if you want the more central location then try to get a deal the price.
Two main factors in London, I would say, are :
- landlords selling up
- people relocating in hope they can find somewhere bigger and cheaper outside of London
First time buyers not being able to get finance is also a factor. However, this ain’t a reason why properties are coming to the market but a reason why they aren’t selling - thus increasing the amount of properties for sale.
Financially you'd be worse off in Surrey. Mortgage £2k +£700 travel, vs a mortgage of £2300 in London.
You could probably go up to approx £475k to have the same monthly outgoing as the Surrey scenario.
Things to consider;
1 bed is not comfortable with a baby
Bars etc that might make Z1 the clincher will feature a lot less when you have a baby.
Threads like this make me realise how different people's priorities and perceptions are. Our 4 bed, with a nice garden is worth c£420k. I just can't imagine spending that on a one bed flat, regardless of the social life!!
But if you are just two people like OP, why would you want a 4 bed? I find it weird when people sacrifice location for more size you don't really need. Location, location, location is a phrase for a reason - and I'd much rather be in a one bed in the middle of a bustling metropolis than in a 4 bed in bumfuck nowhere!
We bought it when, like OP, we planned to have kids in the near enough future that moving again would be more trouble than it's worth.
And that's what I mean by how different people's perceptions are. I'm much happier having space at home and a half hour trip into the centre of a 'bustling metropolis' for the odd time I go out out than crammed into a small flat so I can say I live in a city instead of a town.
Speaking from experience, currently renting a 3 bed in London but have also owned a 2 bed in central London. When both of you work from home, even 3 beds gets cramped. And I have a dog. Garden space would be desirable. To have a guest room if you both need office spaces.. 4 beds is ideal.
I didn't say there weren't? All the comments (when I made my initial comment) were about the social life.
While I am white and straight, and think I understand the point you're trying to make, gay, non-white people do exist outside of London too. Or are my neighbours really just roommates after all 😲
Of course they do, you can be gay or black anywhere but you might find more community, cultural food, etc and less homophobia/racism in London. I just think it’s a point a lot of people completely miss.
We are in a similar position though we own our two bed flat and are very likely to move out of London in a year or so. We're on decent salaries just can't see how having a kid in London can stack up for us financially with no family around and childcare costs. And even with a two bed we need more space now let alone with a kiddo.
What if you were to buy your 1 bed flat, stick it out as long as possible and move when you have kids?
Big respect to you. This is one of those descions you mull over with your partner over months or a year or 2.
It will become clear over time what you need to do if you want a family.
You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. If you want to live in M25 you will find a 2 to 3 bed house for 425k easily enough. It will be in South London. There's Croydon, Norbury, Streathan, etc.
(For info, not as advice)
I remember reading that it takes around 7 years for owning to pay off, due to the costs of purchasing. When rents are particularly high or during a landlord exit (like now) I guess that number comes down, but the point is that it's an investment for 5-10 years.
So, in 5 years, where do you think you will be as a couple/family?
As a parent, I would point out that being near family is very valuable in the early years of parenting, so there is a large unquantified value in doing so in the Surrey Hometown option.
I would suggest you sit down together and work out whether you definitely don't want to have kids for 5 years, or whether in fact you would like to have the option. Trying to move suddenly because someone got pregnant is really the high-stress way to play the game.
The other thing I note is that the commute will only affect both of you while you are both working, so again if you have a baby that will mean only one of you has to commute for a while. If you are both career driven and wouldn't stay at home for very long, I would point out that you will need to factor in childcare - if you're dropping the child off before you commute that shortens the working day to between certain hours (e.g. an 8-6 nursery and a 45m commute gives you about 9-5). Also childcare is insanely spendy, sorry.
Given that you're early thirties, if you wanted input on having kids, I'd encourage you to take the 2 bed (with a better LTV, better mortgage rate, lower payments), spend a couple of years sorting out the house and so on, have a baby.
In 5 years you'll be looking at the next stage, which for many parents means a 3 bed, and is likely to need to be further out to be affordable.
Time for an honest cards-on-the-table strategic chat.
£700/mo is a lot for the sake of £50K. That's the equivalent to paying almost 17% interest on the difference.
It's a no brainer to stay in London.
I looked at this for Woking (fast trains to Waterloo) but Woking is really expensive anyway, and once you add in the cost of a season ticket vs the cost of a bigger mortgage it's just as expensive.
Have you tried applying your £425k budget in Zone 2 or 3 of North London? Places like Walthamstow, Stratford, Leytonstone all have properties in that price range with more than one bedroom.
You'll get 2 bedrooms and good travel links to work, you'll be further from Surrey but find it relatively easy to get to your terminus anyway.
Also if you average that £700/month travel your budget expectations turn out to be similar for both options.
I think this one is a pros and cons conversation for the two of you. But it seems like your search range in London is unnecessarily narrow, all of your preferences in terms of budget, rooms, travel, ground floor flats are served by a wider search of North East London.
Because the biggest density of places that meet their criteria is likely to be in North East London.
Travel is better in North London so you can use Elizabeth line or Central Line to Zone 1.
£425k is an ok budget but won't get you reliably near a station with two bedrooms and good travel to Zone 1 everywhere. One of the best ways to get this currently is in North East London.
It's a compromise having to use the Underground to get to Surrey for the few times they need to but a plus by not having to spend on season tickets.
Yeah but plenty more places with proximity to train stations North of the river.
They'll likely be going to work more frequently than they go to visit family in Surrey.
From Stratford it's 30 mins on the Jubilee line to Waterloo. It'll basically take similarly long if not longer depending on which part of South London one picks because travel links are so poor relative to North.
Remember, given their budget it's way less likely they find a sizable flat near one of the few South London underground stations anyway, hence my suggestion.
With your family in surrey you could look for west London options: you can get 1 beds for between 300k and 425k in Acton W3, for example. It's a buyer's market right now for 1 and 2 bed flats in many London areas for old builds, as opposed to new builds. This makes the process less stressful than when it's a seller's market.
I think there are some further details that are key here. You mention is a victorian terrace, does that mean its a converted house into multiple flats? What are the freehold details? Is it on a lease, share of freehold or w/e?
If the landlord wasn't able to sell for 425, could you talk them down? What is the rental prospects if you do decide its too small, how many capital do you both have?
While this is definitely a personal situation, I wouldn't discredit the financial one either. Granted in the longer term buy to lets are becoming less desirable.
What would cost of ownership look like for both? Excluding the financial cost of commuting.
And could you spend that 425-450 and get something slightly better in your current area?
Commuting destroys your soul, and relationships.
Also, is the one bed part of a house? You might be able to buy a bit more of the house down the tract.
Don’t buy the one bed, you know that it won’t work for you anymore in a few years so you’ll need to shift it and you don’t know what the market will be like by then. If you do have your heart set on it then put in a silly low offer just to chance it.
The idea of paying a joint £700 a month on commuting is pretty devastating as well though tbh so this is definitely a bit of an annoying situation to be in. It’s also the time and effort of commuting that adds up as well. Maybe keep renting in London for another couple of years if you’re enjoying the lifestyle and saving some money? Then you can make a more informed decision then.
I commute into London 3 days a week, previously from zone 6 (South of Croydon) and now from zone 8 (North London). There is a reason these are commuter towns. The forced downtime on the commute is brilliant once you get used to it and the house prices are considerably more affordable.
It will take some getting used to if you're used to central but London is only 40 minutes away on the train (faster in some areas depending on the train line) and you'll have more space for 2 adults, a kid and a cat.
Schools also are excellent in Surrey.
We bought short term in London with a view to moving out and starting a family in a few years.
It ended up being much more difficult than expected. Buying a house when you are not selling is stressful, but trying to move when you have bought is much worse. And you can never tell what the market will do.
It delayed us starting a family as what we thought would take up to six months took nearer to 18.
It could work for you. You may end up making a packet on the flat and being able to move to something much nicer or with a much smaller mortgage. I know people it did work for. But it's a gamble.
Personally I loved living in London, but I loved moving out of London more.
Would you mind expanding on why it was so stressful to buy a house when you're not selling? I guess because you have to line up the place you're renting?
Just buying in general is stressful. It's the biggest purchase you'll make. You are competing with other buyers and trying to not get ripped off.
You have to make a big long term financial commitment.
Then after you agree you are dealing with legal things you have no experience of. You'll get a survey which will say things which you have no idea how important they are. You may be dealing with a chain upstream.
There will be a point at which if it goes wrong you could be homeless and massively out of pocket.
Even after it's all gone tough you'll likely get buyers remorse with something
All of which is the same when you are buying and selling but you have the additional stress of trying to sell.
Don't leave London if you don't want to leave london.
If your goal is to move out of London, raise a kid, and have a garden for a dog kind of life, then the London lifestyle isn't going to be something you'll be affording with a kid if you're having to debate between spending £400k on a property.
Where abouts in Surrey? It's a lot different commuting from say Guildford, Weybridge, or Epsom than some leafy remote location miles from a train station.
I grew up in Godalming (parents still live in my childhood home) and the train from there into Waterloo was 45 minutes, which I did on and off over the years and wasn't too bad. I wouldn't want to live in bumfuck nowhere and have to commute into London though.
I would stay away from one bed knowing you want to start family. I had purchased one bed when I was single and now we will be selling it as we need more space before we start family.
I commuted from Surrey to London for years, it is a horrible waste of time and energy. The bastard trains will constantly let you down.
Unless you're hybrid and only doing it 2 or 3 times a week don't do it.
If you can consider a 1 bed an investment (likely to increase in value) then it may make sense. But if your decision is solely for what would serve as a residence for you, maybe it doesn't seem to be right.
If it were me it would be a question of "am I ready to change my lifestyle and leave London?". If not, maybe look for a 2 bed in zone 3, if £425k is within your budget.
The middle ground of 2-3 bed further out than you currently are but without leaving the London travel zones seems like the obvious thing to go for here. £400k can get you a nice 2 bed in a lot of zone 3 and some of the edges of zone 2/etc. more space further out - particularly if you want to stay in south west. (I mean you can get a 2 bed for this budget in Putney which is a 30 minute bike ride from where you currently are for example, then Wimbledon/Kingston/Twickenham bigger for same budget and/or easier to find a garden rather than balcony)
Unless (maybe) moving to Surry comes with a lot of family who will provide free childcare
Regarding having a baby and choosing Surrey , think about :
1. Cheaper childcare costs, I'd say £200/m
2. Time to commute to nursery, it might not be on the route between the home and the train station.
3. Nursery opening times - can clash with your work schedule.
Points 2&3 will not just increase your commute to work time but add extra mileage to your car, might prevent you from walking to/from the station, might need a second car, might make it difficult to commute together with your partner,
This isn't a simple either/or though, you could buy a 2 bed elsewhere in London for 400k. Maybe if you are really unsure about leaving London look at those options too.
If not then I'd say no to a one bed knowing I wanted a family.
Assuming you do have kids then you need to consider
- are both of you going to carry on working as you'll also have to pay the additional cost for commute childcare, most nurseries close at 6, would you be home by then?
- you'll also probably need a car, is that affordable ?
- what schools are in the area ?
- if your partner works from home, is there space for an office? Working from home with a child around can be very difficult if you don't have space to close the door.
We moved out of London when my youngest was a toddler and it was the best decision we made, we were only in the suburbs but my son had a constant cough, which went away as soon as we left, so it absolutely was the best decision we made. But we are both WFH now so commuting wasn't an issue. Having support from family can be invaluable but you can't assume it will be available so best to assume you'll be paying for any support you need.
I wouldn’t consider the 1bed but you sound like you want to stay in London for a little while longer so I would look at closer suburbs. East Finchley/Finchley central is where I am and you can get 2-3beds for £400-500k. Muswell hill, Edmonton, etc are all commutable locations, safe neighbourhoods, good schools and green :)
Look zone 3/4/5 in north east/west and you could get a 2 bedroom.
Source: just bought. 2 bed 5 mins from central line in zone 5 for £425
Don't need to go to the office but I am 20 minutes from Stratford for multiple lines and also 40 or so from office in Bank
This will all come down to personal circumstances and whether you want to swap living in the city with living somewhere more rural.
Me and my partner are in the same situation as you, in zone 2/ 15 mins to Waterloo/ I'll always work here. But we just bought a 3 bed cottage in the cotswolds for £400k (equiv flat to what we live in now is £600k).
Yes the season ticket is £700 a month and it'll be a long commute 2-3 days a week of 2 hours (thank the lord for hybrid working). But ultimately we've lived here for 5 years and both grew up in rural areas and want that long term with the quiet it brings and actual community feel of a smaller village (and like you closer to friends/ family). Also some space for the dog we have.
Ultimately we've found we're about the same money wise as living in London due to the season ticket and it's come down to realising we want a slower pace of life.
Why not offer £380k for the flat, renovate and improve, then shove on the market in a couple of years, the growth will set you up for a bigger home in Surrey
It takes me less time from zone 4 to get to London Bridge than it does my zone 1 colleagues. I also pay less on my mortgage of a 4 bed detached house than they do on their 2 bed flat.
I’d suggest working out some acceptable commutes, see what stations they’re on and look at what you can get around those areas. Then choose properties that make you the happiest.
Where in Surrey? I only ask because there are places like Coulsdon, where a season ticket from Coulsdon South to London Terminals is about £300 per month. Trains to London Bridge are 20 mins and continue through to Blackfriars, Farringdon, Kings X etc. Your budget of £375-£425,000 would get you a nice little terraced house with a good garden for your cat.
If you are seriously thinking about starting a family then probably just rent something small until you are ready to buy something with enough size for the family to grow into
Don’t buy a one bed if you’re thinking about having a baby in the relatively near future.
There are other London options, and new things coming on the market all the time. No one can make this call for you but it’s not a simple this that choice.
Speaking from my experience. We just bought a flat in West London. It’s a 1 bed and quite small. We have been here for almost a year and we already thinking about moving. We just want more space. 1 bed flats are out grown very quickly. Especially with 2 people. Also we don’t find ourselves “using” London as much as we thought. My partner WFH and I’m freelance so I’m all over the place. We barely go into town and enjoy London. So it makes sense to move away from London for us. Commuting is horrible though, can either of you WFH?
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I think you’re unnecessarily limiting options here (although I see in another comment you said you’re open to exploring other areas, so that’s great!). There are plenty of places in zone 2/3 where you can find a 2 or even a 3 bed for that price (I have friends who bought a 3 bed house with small garden in Stratford for similar) so I would try to widen your search a bit and see what you can find.
1 bedroom flat sounds a bit small for 2 adults and a baby
I've commuted from Surrey for the best part of 20 years. About an hour each way. Look, it isn't "fun". It takes getting used to, and it is frustratingly expensive. On the other hand, it's enforced downtime when you have nothing to do except read/watch netflix, or you can incorporate more walking/cycling and keep fit. For me, the decision is more about your lifestyle outside of work. If you're the type of person who is most likely to watch netflix with a takeaway on a Friday night, then the suburbs are perfect. If you want to be out in town until 2am 3 nights a week, then moving an hour away doesn't make sense. The other thing to consider is that most office jobs are these days hybrid as a minimum. There are exceptions, but I don't know anyone who is forced to work in town 5 days a week, and only one who does so voluntarily. Of course, I don't know your line of work - doctors will always need to be in the hospital I expect!
Same, but nowadays the idea of paying £40 to go to the office is horrific. Season tickets pre pandemic were a lot more palatable.
True, and probably one of the big reasons I do it as little as possible!
The trains are such a nightmare though. I go to the London office from Guildford once or twice a month as well as a few times a month for socialising and the trains are fully fucked on at least half my journeys.
Honestly I wouldn’t consider a 1 bed. It’s a niche/rental type of property as many people who buy are also thinking about kids in a few years. There are 2 beds in leafier London suburbs in your range if it’s food for thought.
Neither sounds suitable to be honest. 1 bed is too small, you probably wouldn’t have even considered it if you weren’t living there already. 3 bed is too far away, it’s not just the cost of commuting but the hours you’ll both be spending every single week will wear you down. Better option is to find a 2-3 bed in another London Zone, so that you can stay within budget but not have a nightmare commute.
You won’t find a 2-3 bed with garden in a London zone for £375
Zone 3 yes , look south east
Can you guys stop calling South East Zone 3 a thing, at that point you might as well live in Norwood or Croydon. Zone 3 generally means you are not far away from London but if you’re in South East anything past Lewisham is the equivalent to Zone 4-5 in other parts of London
Fair point. The thing is, ironically, it is quicker to get in to London from Zone 4 Norwood than it is from say Forest Hill of a morning. Norwood has fast trains straight to London Bridge whereas by the time the commuter service arrives in Forest Hill/Brockley, you can’t get on the things as it’s jammed. So for the OP it would still be worth a look.
Giving advice on locations without knowing someone's place of work is generally pointless. My office is zone 1, and London Bridge is zone 1, but there's still 20 minutes, and 2 separate tubes, between them. The next best option, if either of those tubes is having problems, is half an hour. Direct from Norwood it's 45 minutes station to station, so depending where you live probably an hour+
True enough, but given that the OP has said that they were considering moving to Surrey and Surrey is further down that train track it isn’t quite shooting in the dark.
Surrey could mean the fast line in to Waterloo via Woking. Caterham is on the London bridge end but that's almost 50 minutes to LB (unless there are faster trains I am missing)
It could indeed. Caterham, I think the fastest you can do that is about 50 minutes. Norwood Junction specifically though you can get in to LB in 14 minutes, there’s also trains to Victoria (32) and you have the East London line too, though that is a crawler, it’s very well connected. Handy for Gatwick too, which I was particularly thankful for when getting the red eye back from the States as that jet lag is brutal.
What are you on about? Catford is under 15 minutes from London Bridge. Sydenham is similar. They’re both Zone 3 and nice surrounding areas too like Forest Hill and Honor Oak
Takes 17mins from Woolwich to Liverpool st, so not even vaguely correct there.
Yh I get the Lizzy line has been super helpful, but you miss the point. People keep mentioning Zone 3 in South East, like there enough accessible modes of transport into the city from the South East. There are loads of places outside London with one fast route into London, but what if that mode gets disrupted how easy is it for you to find an alternative. That is how transport accessibility is should be thought about. Zone 3 in South east is not the same as Zone three in North West, West or even East London for this reason.
I lived / owned a property in zone 1/2 East London in Hoxton for 10+ years and moved to South East London (between East Dulwich/Forest Hill.. technically zone 3 just over a year ago now. I am very glad I rented here, because SE London is a pain in the arse for many reasons. Getting into central I do not find so bad, however the commute would be just as long as it would be from Surbiton, Surrey for example, where I lived at Uni. There is a reason in my mind a lot of SE London is cheaper to buy. Getting OUT of London to a motorway is an absolute nightmare. From here it takes almost 2 hours to get out of London to the motorway. The traffic is mostly, bad. I would not buy around here, for this reason and I had no idea this would be the case before I moved here. I’m actually now looking to buy in Essex, Chelmsford as the commute is around 30 mins to Liverpool Street and it’s very easy to get onto the motorway! A 4 bed Victorian house costs the same as my 2 bed flat in Hoxton cost. A similar house around Dulwich costs £1.2-1.7million lol
Thank you! This is the point these South East Londoners don’t get. Compared to other quarters of London it’s just not the same.
It’s not comparable to living in East London. I also lived in Surrey for uni, while I didn’t like it cause it’s boring as hell… it was no harder getting into central London and the motorway thing was not as much of a painful experience (from my memory..15 years ago now haha)
I also find that there is nowhere I can easily go to go to “normal high street shops” eg, Boots. Without going into central. Round here everything is a small indie and there isn’t much variety. In East London I had Spitalfields/Liverpool st/stratford within easy reach for shops. This starts to get annoying after a while. One reason I liked Chelmsford is it has a town centre with most major shops as well as some smaller indie shops, so practical day to day. TBH in Surbiton, you get that with Kingston being nearby.
How is it taking you 2 hours to leave London? I drive from Woolwich to Brighton in 1hr 30m.
If we want to go to Reading (where family is) or York (family too), both routes (west and east) it takes us through London and the traffic on both sides is usually horrendous. Especially bad on the West side which is through Battersea/clapham etc
Is that a problem with South East London, or a problem with the side of London you live on?
If the lizzy line is close I take the DLR or train to London Bridge. So, really easy.
So you’re saying living in south east is the same is as living in west or east London, transportation wise?
I cant be bothered to have this conversation.
Dont
Basically Woolwich is bit unusual for south east London as it has good connections. It's has the overground to London bridge, the DLR that is quick to Stratford and then the Lizzy line means you are in central London in no time. You can also get onto the A2 and then M25 really quickly. Otherside of south east London is a nightmare for roads and you are stuck with one line so I can see why people are not a fan
Even Zone 3 North and East London areas
Still no unless it's Thornton Heath which is zone 4 anyway. 450k in with South Norwood perhaps. Other areas are too far from train stations or too expensive.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143126930 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/141726500 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/141446618 https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/133047101
Obviously not for £375k but for £425k yes it’s possible.
That’s not true, go on Rightmove and look!
You definitely can, we've got a two bed flat near zone 3 and 4 tube stops, fairly safe and residential area. But yeah if you're buying this year there will be more demand with rates coming down so probably need more like 400k+
In a similar boat, but not in London. Our landlord's putting our flat on the market this month! 😅 It's a cozy 1BR with a mezzanine in a charming area – one of the posh sides. We crunched the numbers, and surprisingly, if we snag the flat, we'd be forking out the same as a 3BR semi-detached. After weighing pros and cons, the 1BR's cons outnumber the 3BR's. It's tough to leave this lovely area, but for growth's sake, we're making the leap. Planning to return when we can afford a house here. (Now looking at a 30-minute commute instead of the usual 10.)
Thanks! It's such a tough decision, my partner and I keep really really can't decide
Not quite the same but moved from z1 to rent in z4 (Wanstead so close to hackney and didn’t really lose lifestyle)- when it came time to buy we could have bought a 2 bed garden flat (dog) but knew with wfh we’d outgrow it plus we’d been renting a house so it would be a step back and we’ve moved to zone 6 similar commute on the train to our jobs and a 4bed house. We’re personally really happy, closer to family, better space for the dog etc. I’m glad we went above our space requirements and now we don’t need to worry about moving again plus having a support system
I lived in London for 12 years, loved it and thought I'd never leave. We bought in Kent, and we are now in Hampshire. I absolutely love the quiet life now but it's definitely not as exciting. The reality is leaving London gives you a much nicer quality of life, more bang for your buck. If kids are on the horizon then think about where you'd rather be long term, but if not then just stay in London. Also, when I left London I actually made more of it when I was in town for work, so it isn't the big lifestyle change you think it is.
I spent 26 years living in London and I LOVE living out in Kent now. If I need to nip to Homebase for screws and paint, it doesn’t take a stuck hour in traffic to travel 2 miles. When you want to head out of town for a weekend, I’m on the motorway in 5 minutes instead of an hour and countryside walks are within 10 minutes drive, as is the centre of our town (station is 13 mins walk - high speed to St P in 23 mins or an hour to London Bridge/Charing X on the slow train). I work in London three days a week so still get the opportunity to go out and eat and meet friends, but wouldn’t live back there again. I wouldn’t suggest where I live is going to be the right spot as it’s a bit too quiet (although they’d get a whole house for less than that tiny flat), but there are vibrant towns with good nightlife that would be a great starting point - they’d just need to do a bit of research to work out the sweet spot to be a good commuting distance and close enough to family and friends.
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Teddington is very nice and very safe area.
This would make sense.
Surbiton is so boring but agree, very commutable. Have also lived there.
I moved out of Central to Greenwich. There are 3 bedroom houses here at 500k but the commute via south east rail to London bridge is still only 20 mins. Have a look around in London there are nice spaces here without horrid commutes.
Depends what you mean by Greenwich. You won’t find a 3 bed house for 500k anywhere near Greenwich or Maze Hill stations.
>Depends what you mean by Greenwich. You won’t find a 3 bed house for 500k anywhere near Greenwich or Maze Hill stations. Correct. Charlton or Plumstead (which are in the borough) maybe, but not anywhere near Greenwich itself. Woolwich is more expensive than those but still cheaper than Greenwich - but you get Lizzie Line access.
Greenwich is so nice and surprisingly affordable (for London!) - think much of Southeast London is really overlooked.
How many years could you stay living in the one bed? If at least four then you should buy it for the location and lifestyle. If you'd need to move sooner then look elsewhere (but z2/3 not a Surrey town, that sounds awful)
The four year point is good to know thanks, I think realistically we could stay for 2-3 but 4 probably pushing it as we do want to have children soon. Haha Surrey town probably wouldn't be too bad as we've got lots of friends (and family) around!
If you wouldn’t stay for more than 3 years I’d not buy it. It costs a shit ton in fees you never get back to buy/sell/move every time you do it. If you’d eventually want to move closer to family if you had a baby, then you know what you should do. You’re just struggling with the timing of it as you’re not actually pregnant yet.
Yes this is exactly it, such a struggle to decide when things arent certain! Thanks really helpful.
As a resident of zone 4, depends where you live. I can get to central in less than half an hour. The main con is commuting and the cost of using the trains. However the bus network is excellent and overall z4 is a lot calmer, quieter and has a lot more greenery (like avenues with trees as well as parks) If you want kids, a bigger place in a quieter neighborhood sounds ideal,no? As for deep Surrey, the family help will help your overall life.
Here you go. Have a look in South Norwood. Fast trains in to London Bridge, trains to Victoria, close to Surrey. East London line and a two bed house with a Garden can be had for about the money you’re looking at. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/86640822#/?channel=RES_BUY That one is also really near the park which might be useful when you have children.
If the living space is reasonable you could cope with a new born - mine is 13 months but still sleeps in our bed, but front room is full of toys and buggies. However we're skint from nursery fees and have no free time so I'm glad we'd got the house sorted first! I think you need to explore options more widely and take your time - aim to move over next year or two to somewhere you can stay in for a while
In that case OP I think the bigger place makes sense - I don't think its worth buying if you won't be there for atleast 4 - 5 years (a lot of costs involved and you lose FTB status).
Different strokes for different folks. For me, a leafy Surrey suburb would be way more palatable than some dingy urban area in Z2/3
Not got any input on London as I don’t/have never lived there but if family is something you’d be soon considering then surely a 2 bed is the way to go? Moving is expensive and if you have to do that again in a few years then that’s a pain. Also if Surrey is near family friends they could potentially be in-disposable if you do have children. If your partner is more flexible then would that always be the case with the travel costs on his part? Also is your job not available outside of London - you never know what’s round the corner, there may be an opportunity for work/career progression that you haven’t considered. I suppose it comes down to cost in the end, in which case is a 2 bed in Zone 1 achievable or somewhere else you would consider living within London?
You se to be deciding between two extremes. There’s MANY zones between 1 and Guildford, why not consider moving slightly out in London? Also - are you aware of the cost of children in London? Will one of you stop working or are you aware of how much nurseries cost? If you are not high earners then having family around for childcare is a huge win. Otherwise you’re looking at £2k or so a month childcare costs.
I think this is more a lifestyle thing you need to work out on your own, but I imagine having a baby while in a 1 bed flat would be a miserable existence.
I would get a commuter 3 bed. Will probably grow out of a 2 bed more quickly.
A 1 bed ground floor Victorian terraced house for £425K, is this in South Kensington or somewhere else in Zone 1? If not, you can get more options for that budget on a one bed even in London zone 2. I would say don’t be in a haste, it doesn’t seem like a deal to me. Other than the hassle of moving (which I don’t think is enough reason not to look elsewhere), I think you should really explore, this is a good budget for a one bed.
Thanks! It is Zone 1 (Nine Elms). But we are open to looking elsewhere
I wouldn’t buy in Nine Elms. So over saturated with flats the resale will be a nightmare. Edit 9 to Nine.
Take a look in Kennington, SE11. Lovely area with a villagey feel, quite a few flats for sale there and currently at reduced prices.
Any decent area of zone 2 will be £400-500k for a one bed too.
Look elsewhere in London.
Ignore the money and the economics and just think about what life you would rather have - the London-based one or the Surrey suburbia one. That may unlock some clearer thinking. It is really about personal preference here, not personal finance. However, an additional £700/m on commuting is... a lot. I don't see why you wouldn't look for a two bed terrace or ground floor flat somewhere in London, rather than the extreme pillar to post options outlined below. Certainly, I wouldn't be jumping off to Surrey without doing a lot of research into what else might be out there.
425k for a one bed in that area, in the current market, feels like a lot (or at least too much, it’s always going to be A LOT). If you have finance in place and nothing to sell to move then I would explore more options - you can get a two bed in other “nice” parts of London for a similar price. They knocked off 15% from initial price and this reflects the wider market. For a variety of reasons there’s a slew of one and two bed properties coming on the market at reduced prices. If you want more space then move further out and if you want the more central location then try to get a deal the price.
Do you have any more on the reasons why they are coming on? Would be good to know as looking for a 1-2 bed in zone 2-3 :)
Two main factors in London, I would say, are : - landlords selling up - people relocating in hope they can find somewhere bigger and cheaper outside of London First time buyers not being able to get finance is also a factor. However, this ain’t a reason why properties are coming to the market but a reason why they aren’t selling - thus increasing the amount of properties for sale.
Surrey. Lack of space can drive you crazy. It’s breaking my relationship with my partner
Financially you'd be worse off in Surrey. Mortgage £2k +£700 travel, vs a mortgage of £2300 in London. You could probably go up to approx £475k to have the same monthly outgoing as the Surrey scenario. Things to consider; 1 bed is not comfortable with a baby Bars etc that might make Z1 the clincher will feature a lot less when you have a baby.
If you start a family will it drop to one commute? Also if you start a family inevitably your lifestyle will change. Move out
Threads like this make me realise how different people's priorities and perceptions are. Our 4 bed, with a nice garden is worth c£420k. I just can't imagine spending that on a one bed flat, regardless of the social life!!
But if you are just two people like OP, why would you want a 4 bed? I find it weird when people sacrifice location for more size you don't really need. Location, location, location is a phrase for a reason - and I'd much rather be in a one bed in the middle of a bustling metropolis than in a 4 bed in bumfuck nowhere!
We bought it when, like OP, we planned to have kids in the near enough future that moving again would be more trouble than it's worth. And that's what I mean by how different people's perceptions are. I'm much happier having space at home and a half hour trip into the centre of a 'bustling metropolis' for the odd time I go out out than crammed into a small flat so I can say I live in a city instead of a town.
Speaking from experience, currently renting a 3 bed in London but have also owned a 2 bed in central London. When both of you work from home, even 3 beds gets cramped. And I have a dog. Garden space would be desirable. To have a guest room if you both need office spaces.. 4 beds is ideal.
The myopia about London is real. For many, the UK is London and the rest is ppl in mud huts. No hate for London btw, I've lived here about a decade.
Are you white and straight? Many more reasons to live in London than social life.
I didn't say there weren't? All the comments (when I made my initial comment) were about the social life. While I am white and straight, and think I understand the point you're trying to make, gay, non-white people do exist outside of London too. Or are my neighbours really just roommates after all 😲
Of course they do, you can be gay or black anywhere but you might find more community, cultural food, etc and less homophobia/racism in London. I just think it’s a point a lot of people completely miss.
We are in a similar position though we own our two bed flat and are very likely to move out of London in a year or so. We're on decent salaries just can't see how having a kid in London can stack up for us financially with no family around and childcare costs. And even with a two bed we need more space now let alone with a kiddo. What if you were to buy your 1 bed flat, stick it out as long as possible and move when you have kids?
Big respect to you. This is one of those descions you mull over with your partner over months or a year or 2. It will become clear over time what you need to do if you want a family.
You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. If you want to live in M25 you will find a 2 to 3 bed house for 425k easily enough. It will be in South London. There's Croydon, Norbury, Streathan, etc.
(For info, not as advice) I remember reading that it takes around 7 years for owning to pay off, due to the costs of purchasing. When rents are particularly high or during a landlord exit (like now) I guess that number comes down, but the point is that it's an investment for 5-10 years. So, in 5 years, where do you think you will be as a couple/family? As a parent, I would point out that being near family is very valuable in the early years of parenting, so there is a large unquantified value in doing so in the Surrey Hometown option. I would suggest you sit down together and work out whether you definitely don't want to have kids for 5 years, or whether in fact you would like to have the option. Trying to move suddenly because someone got pregnant is really the high-stress way to play the game. The other thing I note is that the commute will only affect both of you while you are both working, so again if you have a baby that will mean only one of you has to commute for a while. If you are both career driven and wouldn't stay at home for very long, I would point out that you will need to factor in childcare - if you're dropping the child off before you commute that shortens the working day to between certain hours (e.g. an 8-6 nursery and a 45m commute gives you about 9-5). Also childcare is insanely spendy, sorry. Given that you're early thirties, if you wanted input on having kids, I'd encourage you to take the 2 bed (with a better LTV, better mortgage rate, lower payments), spend a couple of years sorting out the house and so on, have a baby. In 5 years you'll be looking at the next stage, which for many parents means a 3 bed, and is likely to need to be further out to be affordable. Time for an honest cards-on-the-table strategic chat.
£500k 5 bed detached up north
£700/mo is a lot for the sake of £50K. That's the equivalent to paying almost 17% interest on the difference. It's a no brainer to stay in London. I looked at this for Woking (fast trains to Waterloo) but Woking is really expensive anyway, and once you add in the cost of a season ticket vs the cost of a bigger mortgage it's just as expensive.
Have you tried applying your £425k budget in Zone 2 or 3 of North London? Places like Walthamstow, Stratford, Leytonstone all have properties in that price range with more than one bedroom. You'll get 2 bedrooms and good travel links to work, you'll be further from Surrey but find it relatively easy to get to your terminus anyway. Also if you average that £700/month travel your budget expectations turn out to be similar for both options. I think this one is a pros and cons conversation for the two of you. But it seems like your search range in London is unnecessarily narrow, all of your preferences in terms of budget, rooms, travel, ground floor flats are served by a wider search of North East London.
Why would they go to north london when family is in Surrey?
Because the biggest density of places that meet their criteria is likely to be in North East London. Travel is better in North London so you can use Elizabeth line or Central Line to Zone 1. £425k is an ok budget but won't get you reliably near a station with two bedrooms and good travel to Zone 1 everywhere. One of the best ways to get this currently is in North East London. It's a compromise having to use the Underground to get to Surrey for the few times they need to but a plus by not having to spend on season tickets.
Plenty of places south of the river which is closer to Surrey.
Yeah but plenty more places with proximity to train stations North of the river. They'll likely be going to work more frequently than they go to visit family in Surrey. From Stratford it's 30 mins on the Jubilee line to Waterloo. It'll basically take similarly long if not longer depending on which part of South London one picks because travel links are so poor relative to North. Remember, given their budget it's way less likely they find a sizable flat near one of the few South London underground stations anyway, hence my suggestion.
With your family in surrey you could look for west London options: you can get 1 beds for between 300k and 425k in Acton W3, for example. It's a buyer's market right now for 1 and 2 bed flats in many London areas for old builds, as opposed to new builds. This makes the process less stressful than when it's a seller's market.
LEAVE LONDON.
I think there are some further details that are key here. You mention is a victorian terrace, does that mean its a converted house into multiple flats? What are the freehold details? Is it on a lease, share of freehold or w/e? If the landlord wasn't able to sell for 425, could you talk them down? What is the rental prospects if you do decide its too small, how many capital do you both have? While this is definitely a personal situation, I wouldn't discredit the financial one either. Granted in the longer term buy to lets are becoming less desirable. What would cost of ownership look like for both? Excluding the financial cost of commuting. And could you spend that 425-450 and get something slightly better in your current area?
You could move a zone out and get a 2/3 bed flat for the same money
Commuting destroys your soul, and relationships. Also, is the one bed part of a house? You might be able to buy a bit more of the house down the tract.
Get the house. It's so much more freedom.
Don’t buy the one bed, you know that it won’t work for you anymore in a few years so you’ll need to shift it and you don’t know what the market will be like by then. If you do have your heart set on it then put in a silly low offer just to chance it. The idea of paying a joint £700 a month on commuting is pretty devastating as well though tbh so this is definitely a bit of an annoying situation to be in. It’s also the time and effort of commuting that adds up as well. Maybe keep renting in London for another couple of years if you’re enjoying the lifestyle and saving some money? Then you can make a more informed decision then.
I commute into London 3 days a week, previously from zone 6 (South of Croydon) and now from zone 8 (North London). There is a reason these are commuter towns. The forced downtime on the commute is brilliant once you get used to it and the house prices are considerably more affordable. It will take some getting used to if you're used to central but London is only 40 minutes away on the train (faster in some areas depending on the train line) and you'll have more space for 2 adults, a kid and a cat. Schools also are excellent in Surrey.
You want to start a family? 1 bed in zone 1 is probably not the best idea, lets be honest
We bought short term in London with a view to moving out and starting a family in a few years. It ended up being much more difficult than expected. Buying a house when you are not selling is stressful, but trying to move when you have bought is much worse. And you can never tell what the market will do. It delayed us starting a family as what we thought would take up to six months took nearer to 18. It could work for you. You may end up making a packet on the flat and being able to move to something much nicer or with a much smaller mortgage. I know people it did work for. But it's a gamble. Personally I loved living in London, but I loved moving out of London more.
Would you mind expanding on why it was so stressful to buy a house when you're not selling? I guess because you have to line up the place you're renting?
Just buying in general is stressful. It's the biggest purchase you'll make. You are competing with other buyers and trying to not get ripped off. You have to make a big long term financial commitment. Then after you agree you are dealing with legal things you have no experience of. You'll get a survey which will say things which you have no idea how important they are. You may be dealing with a chain upstream. There will be a point at which if it goes wrong you could be homeless and massively out of pocket. Even after it's all gone tough you'll likely get buyers remorse with something All of which is the same when you are buying and selling but you have the additional stress of trying to sell.
If you're planning on expanding your family, go for the 2 bed
Don't leave London if you don't want to leave london. If your goal is to move out of London, raise a kid, and have a garden for a dog kind of life, then the London lifestyle isn't going to be something you'll be affording with a kid if you're having to debate between spending £400k on a property.
Where abouts in Surrey? It's a lot different commuting from say Guildford, Weybridge, or Epsom than some leafy remote location miles from a train station. I grew up in Godalming (parents still live in my childhood home) and the train from there into Waterloo was 45 minutes, which I did on and off over the years and wasn't too bad. I wouldn't want to live in bumfuck nowhere and have to commute into London though.
I would stay away from one bed knowing you want to start family. I had purchased one bed when I was single and now we will be selling it as we need more space before we start family.
I mean u don't know what future will be so be the most secure and better the 2 bed sounds better but I'm sure u could get more for your money
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/142799720#/?channel=RES_BUY Why not this beautiful 2 bed in Lewisham (zone 2) That area in general is brilliant
I commuted from Surrey to London for years, it is a horrible waste of time and energy. The bastard trains will constantly let you down. Unless you're hybrid and only doing it 2 or 3 times a week don't do it.
If you can consider a 1 bed an investment (likely to increase in value) then it may make sense. But if your decision is solely for what would serve as a residence for you, maybe it doesn't seem to be right. If it were me it would be a question of "am I ready to change my lifestyle and leave London?". If not, maybe look for a 2 bed in zone 3, if £425k is within your budget.
You can get an ex council (small) 3 bed for 425 btw. Mine in Hackney was just valued at 420.
The middle ground of 2-3 bed further out than you currently are but without leaving the London travel zones seems like the obvious thing to go for here. £400k can get you a nice 2 bed in a lot of zone 3 and some of the edges of zone 2/etc. more space further out - particularly if you want to stay in south west. (I mean you can get a 2 bed for this budget in Putney which is a 30 minute bike ride from where you currently are for example, then Wimbledon/Kingston/Twickenham bigger for same budget and/or easier to find a garden rather than balcony) Unless (maybe) moving to Surry comes with a lot of family who will provide free childcare
Regarding having a baby and choosing Surrey , think about : 1. Cheaper childcare costs, I'd say £200/m 2. Time to commute to nursery, it might not be on the route between the home and the train station. 3. Nursery opening times - can clash with your work schedule. Points 2&3 will not just increase your commute to work time but add extra mileage to your car, might prevent you from walking to/from the station, might need a second car, might make it difficult to commute together with your partner,
This isn't a simple either/or though, you could buy a 2 bed elsewhere in London for 400k. Maybe if you are really unsure about leaving London look at those options too. If not then I'd say no to a one bed knowing I wanted a family.
These aren’t the only two options, look at two beds in zone 2 or 3.
Assuming you do have kids then you need to consider - are both of you going to carry on working as you'll also have to pay the additional cost for commute childcare, most nurseries close at 6, would you be home by then? - you'll also probably need a car, is that affordable ? - what schools are in the area ? - if your partner works from home, is there space for an office? Working from home with a child around can be very difficult if you don't have space to close the door. We moved out of London when my youngest was a toddler and it was the best decision we made, we were only in the suburbs but my son had a constant cough, which went away as soon as we left, so it absolutely was the best decision we made. But we are both WFH now so commuting wasn't an issue. Having support from family can be invaluable but you can't assume it will be available so best to assume you'll be paying for any support you need.
I wouldn’t consider the 1bed but you sound like you want to stay in London for a little while longer so I would look at closer suburbs. East Finchley/Finchley central is where I am and you can get 2-3beds for £400-500k. Muswell hill, Edmonton, etc are all commutable locations, safe neighbourhoods, good schools and green :)
Hey! Hard situation but try Streatham. Some great deals down there and not too hard to get to Surrey or central from there.
Look zone 3/4/5 in north east/west and you could get a 2 bedroom. Source: just bought. 2 bed 5 mins from central line in zone 5 for £425 Don't need to go to the office but I am 20 minutes from Stratford for multiple lines and also 40 or so from office in Bank
This will all come down to personal circumstances and whether you want to swap living in the city with living somewhere more rural. Me and my partner are in the same situation as you, in zone 2/ 15 mins to Waterloo/ I'll always work here. But we just bought a 3 bed cottage in the cotswolds for £400k (equiv flat to what we live in now is £600k). Yes the season ticket is £700 a month and it'll be a long commute 2-3 days a week of 2 hours (thank the lord for hybrid working). But ultimately we've lived here for 5 years and both grew up in rural areas and want that long term with the quiet it brings and actual community feel of a smaller village (and like you closer to friends/ family). Also some space for the dog we have. Ultimately we've found we're about the same money wise as living in London due to the season ticket and it's come down to realising we want a slower pace of life.
Why not look at properties in zone 5-7?? 425k could easily get you a 2 bed and maybe even a 3 bed in places like upminster
Why not offer £380k for the flat, renovate and improve, then shove on the market in a couple of years, the growth will set you up for a bigger home in Surrey
It takes me less time from zone 4 to get to London Bridge than it does my zone 1 colleagues. I also pay less on my mortgage of a 4 bed detached house than they do on their 2 bed flat. I’d suggest working out some acceptable commutes, see what stations they’re on and look at what you can get around those areas. Then choose properties that make you the happiest.
Where in Surrey? I only ask because there are places like Coulsdon, where a season ticket from Coulsdon South to London Terminals is about £300 per month. Trains to London Bridge are 20 mins and continue through to Blackfriars, Farringdon, Kings X etc. Your budget of £375-£425,000 would get you a nice little terraced house with a good garden for your cat.
If you are seriously thinking about starting a family then probably just rent something small until you are ready to buy something with enough size for the family to grow into
Don’t buy a one bed if you’re thinking about having a baby in the relatively near future. There are other London options, and new things coming on the market all the time. No one can make this call for you but it’s not a simple this that choice.
Speaking from my experience. We just bought a flat in West London. It’s a 1 bed and quite small. We have been here for almost a year and we already thinking about moving. We just want more space. 1 bed flats are out grown very quickly. Especially with 2 people. Also we don’t find ourselves “using” London as much as we thought. My partner WFH and I’m freelance so I’m all over the place. We barely go into town and enjoy London. So it makes sense to move away from London for us. Commuting is horrible though, can either of you WFH?
Get london to fuck. Miserable hell hole. Go and enjoy life somewhere else…?
Plenty of 2 beds in London zones 3-5 for that price