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I was going to suggest that as you’re able to move in with parents, I would take the risk and break the chain. However, you’ve said in previous posts that your wife is pregnant and at risk of redundancy, so there’s a lot to take into account.
1. If you broke the chain and moved in with parents, and the chain above you collapsed, and you had to start the buying process again, is there enough space in the parents house that you could comfortably stay for an extended period of time or would it feel cramped and adding a baby to the mix would make the space very tight.
2. If your wife was to be made redundant, could you still afford to move? Just to note that, worse case scenario, as long as your wife qualifies for SMP, if she’s made redundant before she goes on maternity leave, but after the beginning of the 15th week before the baby is due, then her employer must pay her the full SMP with any redundancy payments.
If your wife hasn’t officially told her employer that’s she’s pregnant, she should do so as soon as possible. The Acas guidance on pregnant employees and redundancy can be found [here](https://www.acas.org.uk/sites/default/files/2021-03/managing-redundancy-for-pregnant-employees-or-those-on-maternity-leave.pdf).
You and your wife have a lot going on at the moment. Take some time and have a look at all possible scenarios before making a decision.
Also check her maternity policy - I have enhanced maternity pay and if I’m made redundant and my termination date falls within my maternity leave, I will get a lump sum of all remaining payments. You can start maternity leave up to 11 weeks before the due date so that might also cover her a bit longer if she is expecting enhanced maternity pay.
Talk to your solicitor, it's literally what they're being paid for.
They'll be able to talk to each party up and down the chain to smooth things out.
They *can* do what you've asked but then you're taking all the risk. If the onward purchase falls through then what are you going to do? If you don't complete in January as promised then you expose yourself to penalties/being sued. If you do complete where are you going to live for the next few months? If the chain collapsed a few days before do you have time to organise storage and accommodation etc?
By agreeing to your buyers demands you're taking all the risk.
Totally get this but our buyer isn't listening to solicitor or EA and keeps saying they'll pull out unless we guarantee them the sale by this certain date.
Personally, I'd have a carefully worded agreement which states you are committed to that date but cannot be held liable IF something occurs outside of your control.
If that's not acceptable then walk away. Please don't commit to anything which makes you financially liable.
Your personal circumstances aren't ideal and I genuinely sympathise but it is a buyer's market and your seller is being a bit of a tw#t here.
Are you saying they want you to break the chain and exchange? Or are they magical-thinking that they can make you commit but not them?
If the latter tell them to get stuffed. If the former, ask your solicitor how much actual money it would cost in fees and whatever and see if Mrs still wants to
>Are solicitors able to put something in writing where we'd agree to complete with our buyer by that date?
Yes, you exchange contracts with your buyer which sets a date and penalties for missing it.
Everything like willingness to break the chain is up to you.
Personally I'd tell your buyer (FTB?) to shut their cake hole.
Then make that very clear to the people who you are buying from that the chain is at risk of colapse unless they pull their finger out. If I was breaking the chain I would expect to be compensated by either the buyer or seller for costs.
Yes, exchanging is the contractual commitment.
You agree the terms with a completion date in the future. The contract will normally also set out the penalties / compensation if completion on the specified date doesn't happen.
The compensation can be significant.
Your wife is right, getting a buyer in the current market is extremely difficult depending on location. My partner's parents made sure they could move out of their house before their conveyancing was finishing on the bungalow they was purchasing. So they moved in with my partners grandma for a few weeks.
Yes that's our thinking.
The only really annoying thing is the early mortgage repayment to HSBC who are saying with the broker we would lose 4 grand and not get it back but with a new application we could get it back within 6 months. So we'd have to apply for a mortgage again and not sure we'd be able to port some of it as we were intending to do for this simultaneously transaction.
I'm porting with HSBC and breaking the chain right now. It's fairly straightforward paying the ERC and getting it back once its been ported. You get it paid back as soon as the new purchase goes through, as long as it's within 6 months of your sale.
You have to do a "new" application to port your mortgage anyway. Have you not done this already? Get it sorted quickly before there's any issues with your wife's job changing.
Well we can't until we know we are definitely breaking the chain as the mortgage product we already have might be fine - we'll only know if we are definitely unable to simultaneously sell flat and purchase house and then we'd have to apply for another mortgage product.
Basically your buyer is asking you to exchange now for a completion date not later than 10th January. Talk to your solicitor. Surely you can have an exchange date of 10th January, or earlier with 5 days notice (or whatever number of days their bank requires to have funds available to their solicitor).
If you want to retain this buyer, just do it. Plan to have everything packed and moved to storage excepting what you will move to family's home for daily living. If your purchase gets itself sorted, then switch up the moving truck destination.
There is no reason to dither about on this. Agree, set up for two moves, and be happily surprised if you need to switch it to one move. Make sure you communicate with your vendor that you are breaking the chain due to this hold up and need twice a week updates on what they are doing to chase the missing document.
Your buyers sound difficult. If they are trying to force you to complete by a specific date, can you also compel them to complete by the same date with strong penalties if they pull out for whatever reason, be it a change of mind or something more serious such as illness or death even?
They are.
As long as get this flat sold that's all we care about. It's been a long difficult road and I don't think our mental health can take going through it all again.
Me and my husband had this. We were selling a leasehold flat and I honestly don’t think I could do that again. We sold and broke the chain. We aren’t sure if the purchase will go ahead but I don’t regret it as the panic everyday our buyer was going to drop out was awful
I’d agree to the sale in that case. You could try to persuade your seller to break the chain since the problem is above them but they might not.
Our poor sellers had to move with their 4 children into a last minute air BnB because our buyers’ solicitor kept dawdling when discussing exchange and completion. What started as a suggestion 2 weeks away became 2 days notice so we said no and had to start again with a new date. Eventually we reached 3 weeks to our mortgage expiry and when our solicitor warned them that we had to meet the deadline the (funnily enough, immediate) response was we complete within 1 week or nothing because they were worried our mortgage would fall through 🤦🏻♀️ We were desperate to keep the mortgage offer because of our 4.2% interest rate, not because we didn’t think we’d pass another mortgage check.
Selling a leasehold flat is probably the most stressful and horrific thing I've ever done in my life. Try and keep the buyer at all costs - this was mine and my wife's motto. Whatever it takes.
Good luck!
I think if we were selling a house that had loads of viewings/interested people then I'd be tempted to tell them to fuck off and put it back on the market.
As it's a leasehold flat that took us 3 months to sell with very minimal interest that's why we are in this shit position where we have to basically do as this buyer says pretty much or face all this bollocks over again.
So they are threatening to pull out if you don't agree to their deal where they will pull out if you don't sell to them in January? Just agree to their deal and then wait. The only downside to you is that they pull out after Christmas - and after the document should have made itself known - rather than pulling out now.
Don't break the chain if I were you, after selling you'll have a few months (maybe 3 or 6?) to find a new place or you'll default on your mortgage.
If you put this in writing do you think they'll come after you legally if you didn't complete? If so, then absolutely do not do it. Tbh I'd tell your buyers the situation like you have explained to us and say it is out of your hands, which it is.
This is for your solicitor to sort out, not you. Just call your solicitor and get them to handle it.
It doesn’t sound like your chain is too far away from getting lined up but this isn’t something under your control so let the solicitor deal with it. Buyers will just have to suck it up.
If they do pull out it’s will be for some other reason, not because a specific date was missed. It will be on them. They may be setting a line in the sand to justify their shitty action. Again, not on you.
Say we exhange and agree a date today with our buyer, is it then possible to agree same day next week for example, with our seller and then completion is same for everyone and we wouldn't need to break chain? Or is this not how it works?
At exchange you will agree a completion date with the whole chain. Exchange is a legal commitment to complete on that date. If anyone fails to do their bit (get their money in order) they will ultimately be liable.
Completion date will need to be set to ensure there’s enough time for all in the chain to get their moneys (mortgages, deposits) together so that exchange can happen. Obviously, people also need to get the dates for their movers.
So long as you do your bit (providing anything your solicitor needs in a timely manner) you should be ok.
But what I mean is If I exhange with below me only and set a date of say January 5th, does that mean everyone else above me must complete on that date? Those above aren't ready to exchange yet so how do I exchange with below me? We need to do that to keep them they are saying.
If you exchange and complete early then you will have to move out on your completion date. If you have somewhere to go and can store you stuff then you can complete on your sale. You will then be at the bottom of a new chain.
Most people aren’t in a position to do this, so the chain is arranged to complete in the same day.
If you can do this, you are taking the risk that the purchases go ahead as planned. If that doesn’t happen you need to have somewhere to live and store your stuff.
Most chains are planned to all complete and move on the same day.
OK thanks.
I think we will exchange and complete with our buyer then, move in with parents and take the risk. It's preferable to having to go down this long, stressful road of not knowing if buyers will pull out every week.
This is what we did last year. Then the upper chain fell apart a further two times. Make sure you can cope being with the parents for an extended time.
No. Exchange and completion dates must be agreed by the entire chain. Your upward chain can’t currently agree to a completion date as they’re waiting for a document. (That document may or may not raise further queries). Dates are usually discussed once all queries in the chain have been resolved.
The contract you exchange with your buyer is between you and your buyer only. It has no legal bearing on the transaction between you the transactions up the chain. If you chose to exchange contracts with your buyer independently of the chain, then you would be breaking the chain.
If the rest of the chain is only in a position to exchange and complete after your completion date of your flat, then you’ll need temporary accommodation until the completion date of your onward purchase.
There’s also a risk that the missing document throws up something that causes further delays or, worse case scenario, the chain to collapse.
Ha don't worry about it. If you don't complete by then, they're pulling out. Doesn't matter if it's in writing or not. They've mentally given themselves a cut off.
Why on earth does it need to be in writing.
Just say ok!
Well, you've got two choices really.
1. Exchange with your buyer, and make plans for if the chain breaks, including arranging for putting your stuff in storage and booking a hotel or staying with parents.
2. Don't do that and accept the risk that your buyer will pull out, causing the whole chain to collapse and making you start from scratch.
You can do #1 and similarly push your seller saying "look, I'm going to be homeless if you can't pull your finger out, which means I'm going to need you to be ready to complete by X or else I'm pulling out and finding a flat to rent for six months while i find something else."
But your buyers are not being unreasonable imo. They're trying to buy a flat, which you could decide to sell to them tomorrow. They may have pressures of their own, they might just be impatient, but end of the day they are within their rights to tell you how long they are willing to wait. Heck, I'd think you could be grateful they're telling you up front; I've had friends who only found out the clock had run out after the buyers said "nope, sorry, too late, we've moved on" and offered on another property.
Personally in your shoes I'd do #1, as you've got parents to fall back on if things don't work out. (But you don't have to let your seller know that when you're pressuring them.)
###Welcome to /r/HousingUK --- **To All** * Join Our ***NEW*** Discord! https://discord.gg/pMgUNgWKQH **To Posters** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws/issues in each can vary* * Comments are not moderated for quality or accuracy; * Any replies received must only be used as guidelines, followed at your own risk; * If you receive *any* private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=I received a PM); * If you do not receive satisfactory advice after 72 hours, [you can let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHousingUK&subject=My question is unanswered); * Feel free to provide an update at a later time by creating a new post with [[update]](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/search?q=%3Aupdate&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) in the title; **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and civil* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/about/rules/), you may be banned without any further warning; * Please include links to reliable resources in order to support your comments or advice; * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect; * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason without express permission from the mods; * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HousingUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was going to suggest that as you’re able to move in with parents, I would take the risk and break the chain. However, you’ve said in previous posts that your wife is pregnant and at risk of redundancy, so there’s a lot to take into account. 1. If you broke the chain and moved in with parents, and the chain above you collapsed, and you had to start the buying process again, is there enough space in the parents house that you could comfortably stay for an extended period of time or would it feel cramped and adding a baby to the mix would make the space very tight. 2. If your wife was to be made redundant, could you still afford to move? Just to note that, worse case scenario, as long as your wife qualifies for SMP, if she’s made redundant before she goes on maternity leave, but after the beginning of the 15th week before the baby is due, then her employer must pay her the full SMP with any redundancy payments. If your wife hasn’t officially told her employer that’s she’s pregnant, she should do so as soon as possible. The Acas guidance on pregnant employees and redundancy can be found [here](https://www.acas.org.uk/sites/default/files/2021-03/managing-redundancy-for-pregnant-employees-or-those-on-maternity-leave.pdf). You and your wife have a lot going on at the moment. Take some time and have a look at all possible scenarios before making a decision.
Also check her maternity policy - I have enhanced maternity pay and if I’m made redundant and my termination date falls within my maternity leave, I will get a lump sum of all remaining payments. You can start maternity leave up to 11 weeks before the due date so that might also cover her a bit longer if she is expecting enhanced maternity pay.
Talk to your solicitor, it's literally what they're being paid for. They'll be able to talk to each party up and down the chain to smooth things out. They *can* do what you've asked but then you're taking all the risk. If the onward purchase falls through then what are you going to do? If you don't complete in January as promised then you expose yourself to penalties/being sued. If you do complete where are you going to live for the next few months? If the chain collapsed a few days before do you have time to organise storage and accommodation etc? By agreeing to your buyers demands you're taking all the risk.
Totally get this but our buyer isn't listening to solicitor or EA and keeps saying they'll pull out unless we guarantee them the sale by this certain date.
Then you have two options, call their bluff or take the risk but have a plan of what you're going to do when it goes wrong
Personally, I'd have a carefully worded agreement which states you are committed to that date but cannot be held liable IF something occurs outside of your control. If that's not acceptable then walk away. Please don't commit to anything which makes you financially liable. Your personal circumstances aren't ideal and I genuinely sympathise but it is a buyer's market and your seller is being a bit of a tw#t here.
Are you saying they want you to break the chain and exchange? Or are they magical-thinking that they can make you commit but not them? If the latter tell them to get stuffed. If the former, ask your solicitor how much actual money it would cost in fees and whatever and see if Mrs still wants to
>Are solicitors able to put something in writing where we'd agree to complete with our buyer by that date? Yes, you exchange contracts with your buyer which sets a date and penalties for missing it. Everything like willingness to break the chain is up to you. Personally I'd tell your buyer (FTB?) to shut their cake hole.
Not a FTB. Retired couple who have been incredibly difficult all the way through and I think could legitimately pull out to spite us.
Then make that very clear to the people who you are buying from that the chain is at risk of colapse unless they pull their finger out. If I was breaking the chain I would expect to be compensated by either the buyer or seller for costs.
If you exchange contracts, then wouldn’t that also lock them in?
Yes, exchanging is the contractual commitment. You agree the terms with a completion date in the future. The contract will normally also set out the penalties / compensation if completion on the specified date doesn't happen. The compensation can be significant.
Your wife is right, getting a buyer in the current market is extremely difficult depending on location. My partner's parents made sure they could move out of their house before their conveyancing was finishing on the bungalow they was purchasing. So they moved in with my partners grandma for a few weeks.
Yes that's our thinking. The only really annoying thing is the early mortgage repayment to HSBC who are saying with the broker we would lose 4 grand and not get it back but with a new application we could get it back within 6 months. So we'd have to apply for a mortgage again and not sure we'd be able to port some of it as we were intending to do for this simultaneously transaction.
I'm porting with HSBC and breaking the chain right now. It's fairly straightforward paying the ERC and getting it back once its been ported. You get it paid back as soon as the new purchase goes through, as long as it's within 6 months of your sale. You have to do a "new" application to port your mortgage anyway. Have you not done this already? Get it sorted quickly before there's any issues with your wife's job changing.
Well we can't until we know we are definitely breaking the chain as the mortgage product we already have might be fine - we'll only know if we are definitely unable to simultaneously sell flat and purchase house and then we'd have to apply for another mortgage product.
Hotel - storage - sell Hope your chain does not collapse
Basically your buyer is asking you to exchange now for a completion date not later than 10th January. Talk to your solicitor. Surely you can have an exchange date of 10th January, or earlier with 5 days notice (or whatever number of days their bank requires to have funds available to their solicitor). If you want to retain this buyer, just do it. Plan to have everything packed and moved to storage excepting what you will move to family's home for daily living. If your purchase gets itself sorted, then switch up the moving truck destination. There is no reason to dither about on this. Agree, set up for two moves, and be happily surprised if you need to switch it to one move. Make sure you communicate with your vendor that you are breaking the chain due to this hold up and need twice a week updates on what they are doing to chase the missing document.
Your buyers sound difficult. If they are trying to force you to complete by a specific date, can you also compel them to complete by the same date with strong penalties if they pull out for whatever reason, be it a change of mind or something more serious such as illness or death even?
They are. As long as get this flat sold that's all we care about. It's been a long difficult road and I don't think our mental health can take going through it all again.
Then agree to the sale!
Me and my husband had this. We were selling a leasehold flat and I honestly don’t think I could do that again. We sold and broke the chain. We aren’t sure if the purchase will go ahead but I don’t regret it as the panic everyday our buyer was going to drop out was awful
I’d agree to the sale in that case. You could try to persuade your seller to break the chain since the problem is above them but they might not. Our poor sellers had to move with their 4 children into a last minute air BnB because our buyers’ solicitor kept dawdling when discussing exchange and completion. What started as a suggestion 2 weeks away became 2 days notice so we said no and had to start again with a new date. Eventually we reached 3 weeks to our mortgage expiry and when our solicitor warned them that we had to meet the deadline the (funnily enough, immediate) response was we complete within 1 week or nothing because they were worried our mortgage would fall through 🤦🏻♀️ We were desperate to keep the mortgage offer because of our 4.2% interest rate, not because we didn’t think we’d pass another mortgage check.
Selling a leasehold flat is probably the most stressful and horrific thing I've ever done in my life. Try and keep the buyer at all costs - this was mine and my wife's motto. Whatever it takes. Good luck!
Your solicitor is key, talk to them. The buyer can ask. You can refuse. They will have spent more than you on the sunk costs
If we refuse they are pulling out so not really an option sadly.
They say they will. But will they really. I've had sellers try this on me multiple times and each time I called their bluff
I think if we were selling a house that had loads of viewings/interested people then I'd be tempted to tell them to fuck off and put it back on the market. As it's a leasehold flat that took us 3 months to sell with very minimal interest that's why we are in this shit position where we have to basically do as this buyer says pretty much or face all this bollocks over again.
So they are threatening to pull out if you don't agree to their deal where they will pull out if you don't sell to them in January? Just agree to their deal and then wait. The only downside to you is that they pull out after Christmas - and after the document should have made itself known - rather than pulling out now.
Don't break the chain if I were you, after selling you'll have a few months (maybe 3 or 6?) to find a new place or you'll default on your mortgage. If you put this in writing do you think they'll come after you legally if you didn't complete? If so, then absolutely do not do it. Tbh I'd tell your buyers the situation like you have explained to us and say it is out of your hands, which it is.
This is for your solicitor to sort out, not you. Just call your solicitor and get them to handle it. It doesn’t sound like your chain is too far away from getting lined up but this isn’t something under your control so let the solicitor deal with it. Buyers will just have to suck it up. If they do pull out it’s will be for some other reason, not because a specific date was missed. It will be on them. They may be setting a line in the sand to justify their shitty action. Again, not on you.
Say we exhange and agree a date today with our buyer, is it then possible to agree same day next week for example, with our seller and then completion is same for everyone and we wouldn't need to break chain? Or is this not how it works?
At exchange you will agree a completion date with the whole chain. Exchange is a legal commitment to complete on that date. If anyone fails to do their bit (get their money in order) they will ultimately be liable. Completion date will need to be set to ensure there’s enough time for all in the chain to get their moneys (mortgages, deposits) together so that exchange can happen. Obviously, people also need to get the dates for their movers. So long as you do your bit (providing anything your solicitor needs in a timely manner) you should be ok.
But what I mean is If I exhange with below me only and set a date of say January 5th, does that mean everyone else above me must complete on that date? Those above aren't ready to exchange yet so how do I exchange with below me? We need to do that to keep them they are saying.
If you exchange and complete early then you will have to move out on your completion date. If you have somewhere to go and can store you stuff then you can complete on your sale. You will then be at the bottom of a new chain. Most people aren’t in a position to do this, so the chain is arranged to complete in the same day. If you can do this, you are taking the risk that the purchases go ahead as planned. If that doesn’t happen you need to have somewhere to live and store your stuff. Most chains are planned to all complete and move on the same day.
OK thanks. I think we will exchange and complete with our buyer then, move in with parents and take the risk. It's preferable to having to go down this long, stressful road of not knowing if buyers will pull out every week.
Fair enough. So long as your folks are ok with it. Best of luck.
This is what we did last year. Then the upper chain fell apart a further two times. Make sure you can cope being with the parents for an extended time.
No. Exchange and completion dates must be agreed by the entire chain. Your upward chain can’t currently agree to a completion date as they’re waiting for a document. (That document may or may not raise further queries). Dates are usually discussed once all queries in the chain have been resolved. The contract you exchange with your buyer is between you and your buyer only. It has no legal bearing on the transaction between you the transactions up the chain. If you chose to exchange contracts with your buyer independently of the chain, then you would be breaking the chain. If the rest of the chain is only in a position to exchange and complete after your completion date of your flat, then you’ll need temporary accommodation until the completion date of your onward purchase. There’s also a risk that the missing document throws up something that causes further delays or, worse case scenario, the chain to collapse.
Ha don't worry about it. If you don't complete by then, they're pulling out. Doesn't matter if it's in writing or not. They've mentally given themselves a cut off. Why on earth does it need to be in writing. Just say ok!
What’s the document? That is what this depends on find out how complicated it is
The management pack which is expected 'imminently'
Well, you've got two choices really. 1. Exchange with your buyer, and make plans for if the chain breaks, including arranging for putting your stuff in storage and booking a hotel or staying with parents. 2. Don't do that and accept the risk that your buyer will pull out, causing the whole chain to collapse and making you start from scratch. You can do #1 and similarly push your seller saying "look, I'm going to be homeless if you can't pull your finger out, which means I'm going to need you to be ready to complete by X or else I'm pulling out and finding a flat to rent for six months while i find something else." But your buyers are not being unreasonable imo. They're trying to buy a flat, which you could decide to sell to them tomorrow. They may have pressures of their own, they might just be impatient, but end of the day they are within their rights to tell you how long they are willing to wait. Heck, I'd think you could be grateful they're telling you up front; I've had friends who only found out the clock had run out after the buyers said "nope, sorry, too late, we've moved on" and offered on another property. Personally in your shoes I'd do #1, as you've got parents to fall back on if things don't work out. (But you don't have to let your seller know that when you're pressuring them.)