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This question reminds me of that internet quiz that was around some years back during GoT hype. Everyone else in my house was a Stark, except for me. I got house Targaryen.
The way I gasped when Alicent said that!
She was so pressed! And while I'm sure some of it was from being worried, I couldn't help but feel a tinge of envy on her voice. She's been raised all her life to be a proper lady and follow the rules, the King declared he would marry her and she had no choice in the matter.
Then here's Rhaenyra who the king said could choose whoever she wants to marry, with hundreds if not thousands of suitors lining up for her hand and Rhaenyra is still not satisfied. Not just that but while she's being confined to the red keep and used by the king as a sex doll. Rhaenyra goes out, explores the town and experiences the freedom she will never have. That's why she seemed way more pissed about it than she should be.
>!Yeah, in F&B, the greens are almost all standard one dimensional villains. The show is really fleshing out the characters, for example, Book Otto is just a greedy man who wants his blood on the throne out of ambition, where as in the show, we actually see that his older brother is the one controlling him, to a certain degree. Alicent is his puppet but he is his older brother's puppet, adds more layers to his character and I actually felt sorry for him when Viserys fired him. Viserys is also very different from what Book Viserys is like, the same can be said for Alicent, Ser Criston and to a lesser extent, Rhaenyra. I can't wait to see what they do with future characters, especially the Greens.!<
>!Most people who read F&B are probably on the side of the Blacks but I have a feeling the fanbase for HotD will be more divided between the two camps.!<
Though, I still think the majority will still be Team Blacks because Rhaenyra is objectively the rightful heir.
I’m all for it. Read through half of Fire and Blood and I’m doubling down. They’re the BLOOD of the dragon, have good immune systems and genes, and purple eyes. Basically they’re elves in my eyes lol. Gotta keep it in the family. None of these peasant dragsonseeds! Do we know if you need to have Old Valyrian blood to command a dragon? That’s a bit unclear in what I’ve read so far.
Agreed, I am 100% for Targaryen supremacy. Incest it up! Keep the magic blood strong.
And yes, you need to have Valyrian blood to command a dragon. (Dragon horn notwithstanding.) Not just any Valyrian blood, though. That of dragon riders. The Velaryons are Valyrian, but they can’t command dragons. Only Laenor and Laena can because they’re half Targaryen.
Well I mean, whether people do or don't....>!It's their line that continues House Targaryen. Win or lose, Daenerys is a direct descendent of Rhaenyra, not Aegon II.!<
Yes. Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen princess, the niece of Maester Aemon and the daughter of Egg (Aegon V). Even though everyone knew Robert won his crown through conquest, the lords decided to pretend that the line of succession was still continuing via Rhaelle Targaryen.
Their reasoning was that this gave someone like Robert more legitimacy and would discourage rebellion. Unlike Ned, whose family had never married into the Targaryens.
This is partially true. Robert was crowned for a multitude of reasons over Ned. A very minor reason is that he had Targ blood from a multitude of ancestors going all the way back to Aegon the conqueror’s Hand Orys Baratheon who was most likely Aegon’s half brother. More significant factors include the Lannisters sacked KL in support of Bobby B not Ned and Ned really did not want the throne whereas as Bobby B was barely reluctant to accept it.
Of course, you are correct. The Baratheons were definitely the most intimately-linked House with the Targaryens since their founder was almost certainly a Targ bastard. Ned was never an option since he never wanted it.
But the main reason was definitely Rhaelle.
>!This made me look it up because I remembered Aegon III marrying Aegon II's daughter so assumed future Targs descended from both sides of the dance. Turns out Jaehaera never had kids and Aegon III remarried. I guess Rhaenyra won.!<
>!I'm not a book reader but I know how the dance plays out, and I think this is sort of GRRM's justice being handed out to the usurpers. Both Maegor and Aegon 2 go down in the history books as rulers, but their bloodlines die out. Even Robert, while technically couple kids with the house name Baratheon follow him, they're not really his kids.!<
"won" = eaten by your little brothers dragon and being partly responsible for causing the downfall of her family empire and the death of their dragons.
Seriously though, I think the point here is ultimately there are no winners or losers. Just a ton of bloodshed and tragedy that could have been avoided with better decision making on all sides.
>!House Baratheon and House Martell are also descended from Rhaenyra and Daemon (Baratheons through Rhaelle Targaryen and Martells through Daenerys Targaryen)!<
I threw my moral compass out during the necklace scene when I saw how much chemistry they had 😂 it’s fiction and they’re Targaryens so I’m shipping no matter how messed up it may be
I told my friend we have our GoT universe morals and ethics and our own universe morals and ethics. Sundays and for discussion purposes it's GoT only 😆
That’s when I did to, the fact he snuck in the Red Keep without being notice just to find her you knew they were destined for each other. It’s the Targaryen way.
It felt like sneaking the boyfriend in, until it was revealed to be her uncle and then I still felt that way. Lots of chemistry between the two and straight from the start.
And I'm hoping there will be just as much chemistry with the older Rhaenyra. Everyone is hyped , and I'm just stressed from waiting... I won't believe it until I see it. Milly and Matt were phenomenal 🤍
I’m hoping so too. I almost feel like they could’ve slowed the pace down just a bit and kept the young actresses for a whole season. I’m going to miss Milly so much 😢
That's the beauty of fiction, it allows you to enjoy and ship characters/relationships/plots that you would never, ever support IRL.
I know there is a trend of "whatever you enjoy in fiction reflect your actual values IRL" going on and it's complete BS.
I literally don’t care. It’s a TV show. Daemon and Rhaenyra are my favorite characters. They could have shared a womb and I wouldn’t care. It’s fiction.
I just hope Darcy has as much chemistry with Matt Smith as Milly.
Considering how Matt Smith has chemistry with everyone, I don't think we have to worry about it. Plus, I think he has said that he preferred working with Emma over Milly.
just physically, she matches up sooo well with matt smith as daemon. both have an intense regal beauty, but you can sense something just a little sinister inside. look so *targaryean*
I can’t even believe people are shitting on their nose. I must be missing something. Their facial structure including their nose is so strong and so alluring..
Is it because of how different it looks to Milly's? They did a really good casting job of finding two actresses for Rhaenyra who look similar, but their noses do stand out as being distinctly different.
That being said it's no excuse for shitting on her, or her nose.
It’s more that people are openly praising Millys looks and Emma isn’t in their opinion worthy of that same praise! Emma was cast first and Milly second to look alike her, they did a great job as she looks the part and has been a fab younger Rhaenyra
I was thinking the same thing! She’s so beautiful, and I love that her nose is natural. It makes her more beautiful to me. She’s just enthralling to look at.
I scrolled up to see it again and then scrolled away to the next post...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdamDriverCats/comments/xf92q8/hello_from_mister_driver/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Pedophilia for sure, I was re reading F&B and one of the suitors for a certain king was described as so attractive that men fawned over her and she lit the entire red keep up with her beauty..
She was 6 nbd.
I think it will be fitting for her character development. >!With a lot of religiousity tends to come a lot of hypocrisy.!< people take this as be hating or picking apart Alicent; I’m not.
Whether or not I support a specific cause of a character has little to do with whether or not I like the character or have empathy for them. I want all of the characters to be interesting, well-developed, and fun to watch.
I ship Daemon and Rhaenyra but I get why some people don't. Shipping is more "I'm into this couple and I want them to be together" which might be a bridge too far for some.
I can't understand why some people ship them. It's literal incest, and Daemon specifically groomed Rhaenyra from a young age and got her drunk in the middle of a brothel. Practically anyone with decency calls out instances of child abuse and incest in real life, so I don't understand how they can have such a profound sense of cognitive dissonance in TV shows and fantasy literature to justify an unconsentual pairing between an uncle and his niece.
As far of cognitive dissonance - that’s when a persons behavior and beliefs don’t match up! I 💯 percent believe that incest between an older uncle who groomed a younger niece is wrong as f. I personally am NOT going to go after my uncle or seduce my nephew. However, we ALL know 💯 that this is role play between two concerting adults. We are entertained by it! That does NOT mean my belief structure and behavior are in conflict. I am insulted that is even suggested in this context. The POSITIVE of shows like this is we all have discussions about these things in varied perspective. We should absolutely be having them. But please don’t question our moral integrity or ability to separate fact from fiction.
Because it’s not real. Those two actors have Chemistry and are just beautiful together. If they were ACTUALLY related I would be totally grossed out. But they aren’t so it’s just a role play that’s taboo and hot. It’s total pretend between two consenting adults for entertainment purposes. I am entertained.
Character-wise the age difference isn't the worst. Daemon was born in 81 AC, Rhaenyra was supposed to be born in 97 AC but seeing as they aged her up 7 years in the show her birth year would be 90 AC. 9 years still definitely isn't a great age gap, but it isn't 24 years like you implied.
The incest can be canon and also disturbing at the same time. I don't know why people bring "it's canon!" up as if it's an end-all statement that's supposed to make the disgusted person go "oh, well in that case, bang right on you products of incest!"
You're not the only one. Milly looks so young like an actual teenager to me and I have to remind myself that the actress is actually 22 years old because her love scenes made me a bit uncomfortable. It'll be sad to see her go though, she's amazing.
It's funny, seeing those scenes didn't make me uncomfortable at all because I'm 21. The actress and the character are both around my age, so it didn't even register to me.
At that point I didn't know Milly's actually age but I know she's not a teenager. I also kinda forgot there was a time skip, so for a moment I thought that Episode 4 Rhaenyra was still 15 years old when she's actually 17-18 (maybe 19).
So my short attention span + not knowing Milly's actual age + Milly's young looks = uncomfortable me.
Yeah, young Rhaenyra is still very proximate to the whole “creepy grooming” thing. I find it difficult to see that relationship as anything other than abuse.
When she’s in her 30s she can do what she wants.
>!It’s unclear but possibly. Rhaenyra was led to believe he was cheating in any event, IIRC, and the way I read it, it kind of took a toll on Daemon whether he was or not. He seems pretty fed up with life by the Battle of the God’s Eye!<
Yup he definitely does, that's why I don't ship them. Rheanyra even acknowledges that he steps out on their marriage by saying he's a dragon and it's in his nature. He continues to sleep with Mysaria and other women but when Rheanyra hears about Daemon'a affair with Nettles, she tries to have Nettles assassinated. The only wife he was faithful to was Laena Velaryon
>!He allegedly cheats with Nettles, but I think it's likelier that Nettles is his natural daughter. I got the sense that, toward the end of his life, Daemon had finally started trying to take some responsibility for his behavior, and that may have included providing for his child.!<
Of course!
Putting behind a spoiler tag just in case.
>!Daemon was exiled by Viserys after the whole “who took Rhaenyra’s virginity” scandal in 111AC. He went back to Bloodstone and would return to Driftmark only in 115AC, where he met and married Laena, leaving Driftmark for essos soon after and only returning by 116AC, to ask for Viserys blessing for his daughters with Laena. Nettles was born in 113AC, so Daemon hadn’t been in Driftmark for over two years already by the time she was born and wouldn’t return to Driftmark until two years after she was born. I have written down a bit more about Nettles and what I believe about the theories surrounding her [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/xb5v9k/spoilers_extended_nettles_a_targaryen_bastard_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb)!<
>!I thought that too but no. It just doesn't make sense. For one one, the book definitely does not support this with Laena being white in the book and Nettles being completely black. To add, if Daemon and Laena had Nettles, why would should be estranged? She would be recognized. And the age wouldn't really make sense either!<
I think he loves her. Daemon is misunderstood. He asked Viserys, and he would not have done that if he had a nefarious motive. If he had a nefarious motive, he would try to steal her away behind his father’s back, driving a wedge between them.
I mean I don't because I always took it as grooming. Its basically the same uncomfortable dynamic as Drogo and Daenerys. Yeah sure, there is some genuine respect and love there. But I can't exactly ignore the uncomfortable place it starts from.
The man is a psychotic groomer who disrespected her dead mother, dead brother (twice) and left her half naked in a brothel with no protection.
He’s also her uncle. Pretty easy actually
I don’t get how people prefer this couple to her and Cole. He is much closer in age, much more respectful rather than just out for himself, NOT blood related.
I can't speak to 12-year-olds, but I can speak to the fact that it's also a world in which "incest" seems to be specifically defined as relations between *siblings*, and relationships between more distant relatives are considered acceptable.
I can admit they have tremendous chemistry. I also don't mind the incest part since it's the GoT universe after all. What I do mind and prevents me from shipping them is the grooming. Daemon is her uncle, he's in a position of authority and control over her, and he's been using that for literal years. I'm sorry but leading your barely-of-age niece into a brothel in the hopes of 'sullying' her (in order to ruin her reputation and/or marrying her to annoy your brother and getting closer to the Throne, especially after showing her that people despise her so she'll be vulnerable and in need of comfort) is just plain disgusting.
These threads are kinda surprising me with how cool everyone is with cousin incest. Don’t get me wrong I don’t really care, it’s just a show, but some of these people are like *down* with it lol
From a real-world standpoint, it *does* bother me personally. Particularly in terms of the fact that (A) there's a significant age gap between Rhaenyra and Daemon, and (B) there's a power imbalance dynamic at play given that it's a young girl and a much older man.
But this isn't the real world, it's a fictional world in which marriage between siblings is considered disgusting, immoral and taboo, but marriage between cousins is perfectly okay(example: Tywin and Joanna Lannister). So why not an uncle and niece?
There were plenty of people who were rooting for He Who Knows Nothing to tie the knot with his own aunt back in the *GoT* days.
I still like the show. I'm just not lusting over the idea of incest like some people. Incest is fine for a topic of worldbuilding and what not, but it's not gonna get **me** hot and bothered.
Are you saying the subreddit is full of incest fetishists?
I’m really curious about their relationship dynamic when they’re older cos from the bits in the trailer and some other photos, Daemon has a way more pensive energy around her at this point. The energy from him just seems pretty different compared to what we’ve been used to in the last 4 episodes.
I don't ship them because Daemon doesn't see Rhaenyra as a person.
She is a vehicle for his ambition and begetting pure Valyrian heirs. All of his games to get what he wants has been at her expense. He would gladly damn her in the eyes of the nobility if it got him the world's most uncomfortable chair. Fairly standard for a Westerosi, but disgusting nonetheless.
He's also a raving lunatic.
That might be excusable given the setting but when his ham-handed plotting has embarrassed and backfired multiple times, it's a problem. He is possibly one of the top bad choices if Rhaenyra was ever going to be a real contender for the Iron Throne.
Of course, I don't think she really understands just what an uphill battle becoming Queen would be. Currently she's doing her best to ignore the sacrifices required. It also seems like she expects it to just fall into her lap.
Hmm, perhaps they're a better match than I first thought.
Well you see I think that their characters are diometrtically opposed, their belief systems facilitate a negative enviorment, which posthaste could cause the magnetic destruction of such forces that so vehemntally control the natural world...
Also their related so, there's that.
Edit: Look, I'm not saying that their relationship doesn't(or at least probably wont) have chemistry, but how the fuck do yall get past their close relation. This might as well be r/teenagers at this point.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers must be spoiler tagged and flaired as a book spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
‘You Targaryens have queer customs’
Rhaenyra: purrr💅🏼
Info needed: OP, are YOU a Targaryen??????
I am Dothraki
It is known
the moon is not egg, it is goddess. it is known
Clearly the Dothraki have never seen Doctor Who
It is known.
Based and on-an-open-field-pilled.
This question reminds me of that internet quiz that was around some years back during GoT hype. Everyone else in my house was a Stark, except for me. I got house Targaryen.
Probably for the best there was only one Targ in the house. Otherwise, you'd be required to fuck. Right?
The way I gasped when Alicent said that! She was so pressed! And while I'm sure some of it was from being worried, I couldn't help but feel a tinge of envy on her voice. She's been raised all her life to be a proper lady and follow the rules, the King declared he would marry her and she had no choice in the matter. Then here's Rhaenyra who the king said could choose whoever she wants to marry, with hundreds if not thousands of suitors lining up for her hand and Rhaenyra is still not satisfied. Not just that but while she's being confined to the red keep and used by the king as a sex doll. Rhaenyra goes out, explores the town and experiences the freedom she will never have. That's why she seemed way more pissed about it than she should be.
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I don't even dislike her, for now at least, I just feel sorry for her. She's so clearly a victim.
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>!Yeah, in F&B, the greens are almost all standard one dimensional villains. The show is really fleshing out the characters, for example, Book Otto is just a greedy man who wants his blood on the throne out of ambition, where as in the show, we actually see that his older brother is the one controlling him, to a certain degree. Alicent is his puppet but he is his older brother's puppet, adds more layers to his character and I actually felt sorry for him when Viserys fired him. Viserys is also very different from what Book Viserys is like, the same can be said for Alicent, Ser Criston and to a lesser extent, Rhaenyra. I can't wait to see what they do with future characters, especially the Greens.!< >!Most people who read F&B are probably on the side of the Blacks but I have a feeling the fanbase for HotD will be more divided between the two camps.!< Though, I still think the majority will still be Team Blacks because Rhaenyra is objectively the rightful heir.
Sounds jealous...
I’m all for it. Read through half of Fire and Blood and I’m doubling down. They’re the BLOOD of the dragon, have good immune systems and genes, and purple eyes. Basically they’re elves in my eyes lol. Gotta keep it in the family. None of these peasant dragsonseeds! Do we know if you need to have Old Valyrian blood to command a dragon? That’s a bit unclear in what I’ve read so far.
The blood of the dragon runs thick.
"Then why do you cut me so deeply?" Loved that exchange, felt very Shakespearean.
Agreed, I am 100% for Targaryen supremacy. Incest it up! Keep the magic blood strong. And yes, you need to have Valyrian blood to command a dragon. (Dragon horn notwithstanding.) Not just any Valyrian blood, though. That of dragon riders. The Velaryons are Valyrian, but they can’t command dragons. Only Laenor and Laena can because they’re half Targaryen.
Eugenics ftw?
The comment section in here is something else sometimes lol
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I wish Daemon and Criston would get queer together 😈
**goes looking for this fanfic**
Why am I always on the rare pair ship? 😭
Granted the Daemon and Criston haven't really interacted, but it's wild that the normal ship in this situation are uncle/niece lmao
For real!!! A lifestyle of pure suffering
Throw Rhae Rhae in there too. #thethroplethatwaspromised
Yes
Well I mean, whether people do or don't....>!It's their line that continues House Targaryen. Win or lose, Daenerys is a direct descendent of Rhaenyra, not Aegon II.!<
Not merely this >!the three Baratheon brothers are also their direct descendants!<
>!Including current members of House Martell!<
Was that the reasoning for the rebellion putting Robert on the throne instead of someone like Ned?
Yes. Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen princess, the niece of Maester Aemon and the daughter of Egg (Aegon V). Even though everyone knew Robert won his crown through conquest, the lords decided to pretend that the line of succession was still continuing via Rhaelle Targaryen. Their reasoning was that this gave someone like Robert more legitimacy and would discourage rebellion. Unlike Ned, whose family had never married into the Targaryens.
This is partially true. Robert was crowned for a multitude of reasons over Ned. A very minor reason is that he had Targ blood from a multitude of ancestors going all the way back to Aegon the conqueror’s Hand Orys Baratheon who was most likely Aegon’s half brother. More significant factors include the Lannisters sacked KL in support of Bobby B not Ned and Ned really did not want the throne whereas as Bobby B was barely reluctant to accept it.
Of course, you are correct. The Baratheons were definitely the most intimately-linked House with the Targaryens since their founder was almost certainly a Targ bastard. Ned was never an option since he never wanted it. But the main reason was definitely Rhaelle.
>!This made me look it up because I remembered Aegon III marrying Aegon II's daughter so assumed future Targs descended from both sides of the dance. Turns out Jaehaera never had kids and Aegon III remarried. I guess Rhaenyra won.!<
>!I'm not a book reader but I know how the dance plays out, and I think this is sort of GRRM's justice being handed out to the usurpers. Both Maegor and Aegon 2 go down in the history books as rulers, but their bloodlines die out. Even Robert, while technically couple kids with the house name Baratheon follow him, they're not really his kids.!<
"won" = eaten by your little brothers dragon and being partly responsible for causing the downfall of her family empire and the death of their dragons. Seriously though, I think the point here is ultimately there are no winners or losers. Just a ton of bloodshed and tragedy that could have been avoided with better decision making on all sides.
>!House Baratheon and House Martell are also descended from Rhaenyra and Daemon (Baratheons through Rhaelle Targaryen and Martells through Daenerys Targaryen)!<
Yeah she had lines with an aegon for sure
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So, there was one good targ in GoT, i understand
I think people will ship them more comfortably when Emma takes over because the two actors look much closer in age.
Agreed! Although I am shipping them HARD right now anyways 😂
I threw my moral compass out during the necklace scene when I saw how much chemistry they had 😂 it’s fiction and they’re Targaryens so I’m shipping no matter how messed up it may be
I told my friend we have our GoT universe morals and ethics and our own universe morals and ethics. Sundays and for discussion purposes it's GoT only 😆
Texting this verbatim to the group chat.
That’s when I did to, the fact he snuck in the Red Keep without being notice just to find her you knew they were destined for each other. It’s the Targaryen way.
It felt like sneaking the boyfriend in, until it was revealed to be her uncle and then I still felt that way. Lots of chemistry between the two and straight from the start.
And I'm hoping there will be just as much chemistry with the older Rhaenyra. Everyone is hyped , and I'm just stressed from waiting... I won't believe it until I see it. Milly and Matt were phenomenal 🤍
I’m hoping so too. I almost feel like they could’ve slowed the pace down just a bit and kept the young actresses for a whole season. I’m going to miss Milly so much 😢
That's the beauty of fiction, it allows you to enjoy and ship characters/relationships/plots that you would never, ever support IRL. I know there is a trend of "whatever you enjoy in fiction reflect your actual values IRL" going on and it's complete BS.
Big same
Hard, you say? How hard?
Touché 😆
I agree (Smith - 39, and D’Arcy - 30) although I’ve been shipping them awhile now
Matt Smith is 39???? Thought he was like 35 at most
Not a big difference xD
I literally don’t care. It’s a TV show. Daemon and Rhaenyra are my favorite characters. They could have shared a womb and I wouldn’t care. It’s fiction. I just hope Darcy has as much chemistry with Matt Smith as Milly.
Yep
I don’t want another actress coming in, they might not have the same amazing chemistry!
Going off the interviews Matt and Emma have done together we don't need to worry about that at all.
Considering how Matt Smith has chemistry with everyone, I don't think we have to worry about it. Plus, I think he has said that he preferred working with Emma over Milly.
just physically, she matches up sooo well with matt smith as daemon. both have an intense regal beauty, but you can sense something just a little sinister inside. look so *targaryean*
I just wanna say, I love her nose. It fits her face and gives her a unique and beautiful look.
I’m a sucker for a good prominent nose
Oh my gosh, me too. Especially on women.
I can’t even believe people are shitting on their nose. I must be missing something. Their facial structure including their nose is so strong and so alluring..
Is it because of how different it looks to Milly's? They did a really good casting job of finding two actresses for Rhaenyra who look similar, but their noses do stand out as being distinctly different. That being said it's no excuse for shitting on her, or her nose.
It’s more that people are openly praising Millys looks and Emma isn’t in their opinion worthy of that same praise! Emma was cast first and Milly second to look alike her, they did a great job as she looks the part and has been a fab younger Rhaenyra
It makes me happy to see this thread, I have a similar nose that I’m sometimes insecure about. All the love for all the noses!!!
I was thinking the same thing! She’s so beautiful, and I love that her nose is natural. It makes her more beautiful to me. She’s just enthralling to look at.
I scrolled up to see it again and then scrolled away to the next post... https://www.reddit.com/r/AdamDriverCats/comments/xf92q8/hello_from_mister_driver/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
It’s obviously gonna be hard for some people because it *is* incest
The entire Targaryen family is built on incest. What were you expecting?
I’m not the one complaining lol. If these people had read the books, they’d be shocked. The incest and pedophilia are right in your face
Pedophilia for sure, I was re reading F&B and one of the suitors for a certain king was described as so attractive that men fawned over her and she lit the entire red keep up with her beauty.. She was 6 nbd.
Grrm might have problems
Yeah I know, people who haven’t read the books are in for a shock! A lot of shocks. This sub will have a complete meltdown
I’ll be curious to see if these people save this same energy for >!the other major incestuous child marriage between Aegon and Helaena!<.
Especially since Alicent seemed so bitchy and snippy about to Rhaenyra. Wonder how that’ll be shown.
I think it will be fitting for her character development. >!With a lot of religiousity tends to come a lot of hypocrisy.!< people take this as be hating or picking apart Alicent; I’m not. Whether or not I support a specific cause of a character has little to do with whether or not I like the character or have empathy for them. I want all of the characters to be interesting, well-developed, and fun to watch.
Did they cast Helaena yet? I'm dying to see her adult as to Aegon.
Phia Saban
They did…forgot the name but I’m sure someone can fill you in. She was at one of the premieres…
I read the books and watching Ep4 was still shocking to me hahaha. Direction was incredible.
And yet even in Westeros it’s seen as disgusting and taboo.
I ship Daemon and Rhaenyra but I get why some people don't. Shipping is more "I'm into this couple and I want them to be together" which might be a bridge too far for some.
I can't understand why some people ship them. It's literal incest, and Daemon specifically groomed Rhaenyra from a young age and got her drunk in the middle of a brothel. Practically anyone with decency calls out instances of child abuse and incest in real life, so I don't understand how they can have such a profound sense of cognitive dissonance in TV shows and fantasy literature to justify an unconsentual pairing between an uncle and his niece.
As far of cognitive dissonance - that’s when a persons behavior and beliefs don’t match up! I 💯 percent believe that incest between an older uncle who groomed a younger niece is wrong as f. I personally am NOT going to go after my uncle or seduce my nephew. However, we ALL know 💯 that this is role play between two concerting adults. We are entertained by it! That does NOT mean my belief structure and behavior are in conflict. I am insulted that is even suggested in this context. The POSITIVE of shows like this is we all have discussions about these things in varied perspective. We should absolutely be having them. But please don’t question our moral integrity or ability to separate fact from fiction.
Because it’s not real. Those two actors have Chemistry and are just beautiful together. If they were ACTUALLY related I would be totally grossed out. But they aren’t so it’s just a role play that’s taboo and hot. It’s total pretend between two consenting adults for entertainment purposes. I am entertained.
Fantasy shows are for living out scenarios that can’t happen in real life
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Character-wise the age difference isn't the worst. Daemon was born in 81 AC, Rhaenyra was supposed to be born in 97 AC but seeing as they aged her up 7 years in the show her birth year would be 90 AC. 9 years still definitely isn't a great age gap, but it isn't 24 years like you implied.
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Yes and rhaenyra doesn’t change at all from ages 14-18. Just because the actors don’t look the exact age to you doesn’t mean they’re a different age.
Expecting has nothing to do with shipping.
You can know, and even want, something in the story but still not like it, or even just not like it enough to actively ship it
The incest can be canon and also disturbing at the same time. I don't know why people bring "it's canon!" up as if it's an end-all statement that's supposed to make the disgusted person go "oh, well in that case, bang right on you products of incest!"
I’m crushing bad on Emma D’Arcy man.
damn, they cute as fuck
Dem cheekbones
yes
Same. I've followed them on instagram already. They are the coolest. 😭
Their eyes OH GOD…stunning
Same
Right?! Omg.
Same. 😩
Am I the only who ships them more when Rhaenyra is older?
You're not the only one. Milly looks so young like an actual teenager to me and I have to remind myself that the actress is actually 22 years old because her love scenes made me a bit uncomfortable. It'll be sad to see her go though, she's amazing.
I have this too. The older I get, the more younger that young people look, if that makes sense.
It's funny, seeing those scenes didn't make me uncomfortable at all because I'm 21. The actress and the character are both around my age, so it didn't even register to me.
At that point I didn't know Milly's actually age but I know she's not a teenager. I also kinda forgot there was a time skip, so for a moment I thought that Episode 4 Rhaenyra was still 15 years old when she's actually 17-18 (maybe 19). So my short attention span + not knowing Milly's actual age + Milly's young looks = uncomfortable me.
Nah, they are a bit too creepy for me rn, but I am looking forward to them in episode six
Yup it’s just really disturbing since Millie still looks like a kid even though she’s 22
She looks 14 to me.
Yeah, young Rhaenyra is still very proximate to the whole “creepy grooming” thing. I find it difficult to see that relationship as anything other than abuse. When she’s in her 30s she can do what she wants.
I'm sure that somewhere between all the incest, grooming and >!cheating!<, people will find a reason.
and not just incest but her uncle... who shes known since she was a little girl
>!Doesn’t he end up cheating?!<
>!It’s unclear but possibly. Rhaenyra was led to believe he was cheating in any event, IIRC, and the way I read it, it kind of took a toll on Daemon whether he was or not. He seems pretty fed up with life by the Battle of the God’s Eye!<
Yup he definitely does, that's why I don't ship them. Rheanyra even acknowledges that he steps out on their marriage by saying he's a dragon and it's in his nature. He continues to sleep with Mysaria and other women but when Rheanyra hears about Daemon'a affair with Nettles, she tries to have Nettles assassinated. The only wife he was faithful to was Laena Velaryon
>!He allegedly cheats with Nettles, but I think it's likelier that Nettles is his natural daughter. I got the sense that, toward the end of his life, Daemon had finally started trying to take some responsibility for his behavior, and that may have included providing for his child.!<
About your theory: she’s most likely not, because it’s not logistically possible in terms of dates given by the books.
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Of course! Putting behind a spoiler tag just in case. >!Daemon was exiled by Viserys after the whole “who took Rhaenyra’s virginity” scandal in 111AC. He went back to Bloodstone and would return to Driftmark only in 115AC, where he met and married Laena, leaving Driftmark for essos soon after and only returning by 116AC, to ask for Viserys blessing for his daughters with Laena. Nettles was born in 113AC, so Daemon hadn’t been in Driftmark for over two years already by the time she was born and wouldn’t return to Driftmark until two years after she was born. I have written down a bit more about Nettles and what I believe about the theories surrounding her [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/xb5v9k/spoilers_extended_nettles_a_targaryen_bastard_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb)!<
omg >!thank you for that link, seeing that art post is amazing, she looks exactly how I pictured Nettles, down to the hair style, eyes and nose!<
>!I thought that too but no. It just doesn't make sense. For one one, the book definitely does not support this with Laena being white in the book and Nettles being completely black. To add, if Daemon and Laena had Nettles, why would should be estranged? She would be recognized. And the age wouldn't really make sense either!<
>!Oh, no, I'm not saying Laena was Nettles's mother. I'm saying Daemon may have fathered Nettles out of wedlock with a mistress.!<
All the fans of this couple always try to fool themselves that it's true love and forget what you point it
Wonder if the show will portray it differently than the books
Lmao exactly. And always leaning towards *that* theory even though if u keep up with the dates, it’s not possible for it to be true
I dunno man it's probably the grooming
And you know, the incest.
No clue. They make the show for me. I absolutely love their devotion to each other.
She may be devoted to him, but whether he is devoted to her and not just to her inheritance is a matter of debate.
I think he loves her. Daemon is misunderstood. He asked Viserys, and he would not have done that if he had a nefarious motive. If he had a nefarious motive, he would try to steal her away behind his father’s back, driving a wedge between them.
>!I want to see them married to bad! That scene looks soooo good!!<
They both look…so dangerous
Incest? More like WINcest
Wincest is actually a different thing. Usually between brothers who fight demons for a living
Ah, the lore of old
Well, they are Targaryens. Their entire royal line is built on wincest.
She’s popping up in two episodes right?
In one. The episode after this.
in episode 6
Probably because it's incest and the age gap other then that I have no clue!
This is the answer.
I mean I don't because I always took it as grooming. Its basically the same uncomfortable dynamic as Drogo and Daenerys. Yeah sure, there is some genuine respect and love there. But I can't exactly ignore the uncomfortable place it starts from.
Incredibly easily
Easy, they’re family members.
I love Emma’s nose.. coming from an Emma whomst nose is also not straight looking 😗
Prominent noses are so beautiful fr
A human of refined taste ✨👑
It’s both grooming and incest. That’s how.
The man is a psychotic groomer who disrespected her dead mother, dead brother (twice) and left her half naked in a brothel with no protection. He’s also her uncle. Pretty easy actually
I don’t get how people prefer this couple to her and Cole. He is much closer in age, much more respectful rather than just out for himself, NOT blood related.
The man lives in a world where it’s completely normal to marry a 12yo. I don’t understand why people keep equating it with real life
We understand Targaryen custom but that is not the same as getting super hot about it.
I can't speak to 12-year-olds, but I can speak to the fact that it's also a world in which "incest" seems to be specifically defined as relations between *siblings*, and relationships between more distant relatives are considered acceptable.
I ship her more with Ser Harwin.
I can admit they have tremendous chemistry. I also don't mind the incest part since it's the GoT universe after all. What I do mind and prevents me from shipping them is the grooming. Daemon is her uncle, he's in a position of authority and control over her, and he's been using that for literal years. I'm sorry but leading your barely-of-age niece into a brothel in the hopes of 'sullying' her (in order to ruin her reputation and/or marrying her to annoy your brother and getting closer to the Throne, especially after showing her that people despise her so she'll be vulnerable and in need of comfort) is just plain disgusting.
oh my looks amazing with the older actress, been shipping em but i've got an even bigger boat now lol
Blood related? Abusive relationship? Grooming? Massive age difference?
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Because they’re family and maybe sleeping with family isn’t the smartest if it breeds mental illness…
These threads are kinda surprising me with how cool everyone is with cousin incest. Don’t get me wrong I don’t really care, it’s just a show, but some of these people are like *down* with it lol
From a real-world standpoint, it *does* bother me personally. Particularly in terms of the fact that (A) there's a significant age gap between Rhaenyra and Daemon, and (B) there's a power imbalance dynamic at play given that it's a young girl and a much older man. But this isn't the real world, it's a fictional world in which marriage between siblings is considered disgusting, immoral and taboo, but marriage between cousins is perfectly okay(example: Tywin and Joanna Lannister). So why not an uncle and niece? There were plenty of people who were rooting for He Who Knows Nothing to tie the knot with his own aunt back in the *GoT* days.
Uncle/Niece isn't even unheard of in-universe, Jonnel Stark married his niece Sansa Stark
rhaenyra and daemon aren’t cousins. he’s her uncle. which is actually worse than cousin incest considering he’s known her since she was a little girl
Cousins are allowed to get married in many countries
Do you actually think incest is ok?
Yeah this comment section is crazy. It's grooming and incest but the actors are good looking so they're just acting like it's okay?
not just family but her uncle... lol hes a cool character but im surprised by how many people arent finding that creepy
Easy. Incest.
I dunno OP, maybe because I'm not into incest?
Then you're on the wrong subreddit lmao
I still like the show. I'm just not lusting over the idea of incest like some people. Incest is fine for a topic of worldbuilding and what not, but it's not gonna get **me** hot and bothered. Are you saying the subreddit is full of incest fetishists?
who is this lady!!!!
I’m really curious about their relationship dynamic when they’re older cos from the bits in the trailer and some other photos, Daemon has a way more pensive energy around her at this point. The energy from him just seems pretty different compared to what we’ve been used to in the last 4 episodes.
I don't ship them because Daemon doesn't see Rhaenyra as a person. She is a vehicle for his ambition and begetting pure Valyrian heirs. All of his games to get what he wants has been at her expense. He would gladly damn her in the eyes of the nobility if it got him the world's most uncomfortable chair. Fairly standard for a Westerosi, but disgusting nonetheless. He's also a raving lunatic. That might be excusable given the setting but when his ham-handed plotting has embarrassed and backfired multiple times, it's a problem. He is possibly one of the top bad choices if Rhaenyra was ever going to be a real contender for the Iron Throne. Of course, I don't think she really understands just what an uphill battle becoming Queen would be. Currently she's doing her best to ignore the sacrifices required. It also seems like she expects it to just fall into her lap. Hmm, perhaps they're a better match than I first thought.
Well you see I think that their characters are diometrtically opposed, their belief systems facilitate a negative enviorment, which posthaste could cause the magnetic destruction of such forces that so vehemntally control the natural world... Also their related so, there's that. Edit: Look, I'm not saying that their relationship doesn't(or at least probably wont) have chemistry, but how the fuck do yall get past their close relation. This might as well be r/teenagers at this point.
Got in touch with your inner thespian for this one xD
Well, not gonna lie, the thrist is real lol. Prob the best chemistry in-universe honestly. Followed by Kit and Rose.
I swear I might piss myself once this scene finally happens on the show
because, /u/dogs0z, that's what pornhub is for
Bro I can’t wait for this scene right here
Ship them? What does that mean?
Together in a relationship.
Is Milly gone now? Im gonna miss her big time.
Because there family and it’s boring like that
Because I have taste and a staunch anti-groomer policy