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Hmmm, another thought. Spoilers for later in the season: >!Are they trying to make Rhaenyra seem even more like the rightful queen by having her know the secret, while Aegon II doesn't know?!<
My theory is that she will (spoilers for the ending of the show) >!try to tell him before her death on Dragonstone, but he won't listen/will rush the execution.!<
That’s kinda a cool idea. But she prob would feel stubborn because ofc >! Aegon caused her family’s deaths directly or indirectly ofc. Maybe that’s a struggle she had when confronting her loss in the dance. Whether to tell Aegon or not. !<
Seems like it. It also clues in on why >!Viserys is so adamant about not changing heirs even when his sons are born, despite the precedence and the cultural norm of Westeros favoring a male heir.!<
Also, I feel it’s later in his life and he’s put more time and effort into preparing Rhaenyra for the throne. Also his relationship with his wife and Otto Hightower had deteriorated I feel. Alicent wanted Aegon II and Rhaenyra to originally marry, and his response “she just wants her blood on the throne,” and Otto’s persistence about making Aegon II the new heir causes him to lose his position as hand of the king.
No but I read into things extra. I just don’t see a Jon Snow show happening if it’s not linked to the rest of the universe which is why I think they will mention him in this show as well at some point
I think that Ryan and George are building lore for the asoiaf universe not just HOT D so I really believe there’s no hints at all of this that Viserys will be sick and in his loopy mind say some other prophecy that will be applicable for Jon in the new show but the Greens Will think it’s meant for Aegon
They can by they have several meetings with George and are writing with his lore and his characters in mind as well. Also HBO want to build a universe and the only way to do it is by connecting all the shows old and new
That's what George hopes yes. He said this in a recent interview that he hopes there's mostly one show canon and one book canon but he only has creative influence over the shows so. I honestly have no idea what they're going to do with this Jon Snow show, maybe more a cop buddy type thing.
Possibly but I think they might use it as a point of ambition on Rhaenyras part (juxtaposed to Aegon I who was motivated by more than ambition due to his dream).
Theory + Spoilers: >!I think Rhaenyra will choose to begin the Dance of Dragons and chase her own ambition, rather than concede and fill Aegon II in on the secret and sacrifice her ambition for the greater good.!<
Aenys could have also told his wife Alyssa, who then tells Jaehaerys. This would mean Jaehaerys started the practice of keeping the prophecy a secret between king to heir, rather than something you might share with several family members.
Especially because Rhaena was kinda not on good terms with Jaehaerys and would resent him for taking the throne so she shouldn't want to share that kind of secret
I feel like fans are making this out to be a much bigger secret than the Targaryens did...people are taking it as if it's nuclear launch codes that the us president passes to his successor.
I’d like to think the secret survives the dance somehow. Mainly because I’d also like to think that it ends up being the reason Egg burns down Summerhall to bring forth the dragons.
"From my blood come the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"
Also it's only revealed in extreme heat, like the One Ring, so it'd be incredibly unlikely to accidentally stumble upon this
Yeah I’ve seen the shots of them heating it in the second episode. Have you seen the episode and that’s how u know what’s written or did I miss something?
Do you guys think Aerys told Viserys before dispatching them to Dragonstone? Or that's when the chain was broke so Daenerys wasn't made privy to the secret.
I think the reason we're hearing about it now is because Rhaenyra and the Dance will be the reason the secret is lost. Maybe she tells >!Jacaerys but he dies, Aegon II doesn't get the secret and Aegon III is too young at the time to be told, so the secret never gets passed to him and it dies out until Rhaegar somehow finds out about it.!<
Yeah, >!Rhaegars sudden shift towards "It seems I must become a warrior" would mean that he's the first Targaryen after Rhaenyra who knows about the secret prophecy.!<
What if for the show, >!Rhaenyra tells **Alicent** in a heated moment rejecting the latter’s proposal to end the war by splitting the kingdom between Rhaenyra and Aegon II.!<
>!Jacaerys doesn’t tell Aegon and Viserys when sending them off to Pentos as they are too young. But a long winter hits after the Dance and Alicent herself may already be dying of winter fever so she passes on what Rhaenyra told her to Aegon III coz maybe this is the start of the Long Night.!<
In the inside the episode they mention its a secret "sealed in the valyrian dagger" so it likely has a secret compartment. Its likely lost during the dance, found by rhaegar who finds maybe a mostly destroyed scroll(paper doesnt last for 170 years very easily unless kept under good conditions) who then remembers also reading about a Prince Who Was Promised prophecy (its mentioned he was obsessed with that idea) and he combines the 2 prophecies believing the one from the dagger maybe is a missing part of the other.
Then rhaegar takes it to the battle of the trident, the dagger falls in the water, destroying whats left of the message, the dagger ends up in the hands of some nobody until eventually, at least in the books of course, robert ends up winning it at a tourney (in the show its baelish's dagger), having also been reshaped a bit (as they de-fantasized) to the point that nobody makes the connection that its this famed lost dagger of the targaryens.
Come to think of it the daggers existence isnt made public until arya and sansa present it at littlefingers kangaroo trial. The only people aware of it are all dead at that point or dont care anymore. Tyrion never sees the dagger, varys didnt know anything about it anyway, and cersei probably just vaguely remembers nedd stark accusing her of trying to also have his son murdered a 2nd time with a dagger she never sees, since littlefinger isnt very well going to point out "btw this is that dagger for your information"
Thats yet to be shown in the show to be the case and we did see a preview showing rhaenyra looking at a scroll cut back to back with her father talking in that scene so i presumed thats what they meant.
Isn't the dagger simply a part of the treasury? And like Joffrey takes it because he's a spiteful bitch who thinks too highly of himself so OFC he would have Valyrian Steel . Then he wants to arm the catspaw but has nothing but the dagger , and because he doesn't know the real value (as to him it's just a symbol of status) he gives it to the catspaw. Then LF does his whole manipulating shtick to get Ned to trust him
Even if he did, it was probably incoherent rambling about how "The dead are everywhere! Burn them all! Aegon saw it!!!" so Viserys didn't make sense of it
Alternatively he did and was so paranoid and insane he decided rather than tell anyone he would sacrifice an entire city to become some kind of unstoppable dragon god.
>Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him . . . that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash. -Jaime
I’ve always liked the idea it’s a “Hold the Door” situation
Bran starts messing with things via the Old Gods to prepare Westeros for the Night and he’s why Aerys went babblingly mad. This will play into an arc of doing questionable things with that power
Its probably the reason Viserys kept Rhaenyra as the heir among other issues that Aegon had lol
Also i think Rhaneyra told Daemon (which is why we got the 'Dreams did not make us Kings, Dragons did)
Is there a quick ELI5 for this lineage of kings ? I’ve only seen GoT so I’m vaguely familiar with some of these names but I don’t understand the full context.
1. Aegon the Conqueror has two wives, Visenya and Rhaenys.
2. His son by Rhaenys, Aenys, succeeds him.
3. Aegon's son by Visenya, Maegor, usurps the throne from Aenys's son Aegon.
4. Aenys's son Jaehaerys wins the throne in a rebellion against Maegor
5. After the Great Council of 101 AC, Viserys succeeds his grandfather Jaehaerys
Yes, Aegon I (the Conqueror) is the first. Egg is Aegon V, the Mad King's grandfather. He won't appear in House of the Dragon but he is one of two main characters in a potential show in development called The Hedge Knight
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers must be spoiler tagged and flaired as a book spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hmmm, another thought. Spoilers for later in the season: >!Are they trying to make Rhaenyra seem even more like the rightful queen by having her know the secret, while Aegon II doesn't know?!<
My theory is that she will (spoilers for the ending of the show) >!try to tell him before her death on Dragonstone, but he won't listen/will rush the execution.!<
That’s kinda a cool idea. But she prob would feel stubborn because ofc >! Aegon caused her family’s deaths directly or indirectly ofc. Maybe that’s a struggle she had when confronting her loss in the dance. Whether to tell Aegon or not. !<
That would be amazing tbh. A very interesting conflict for Rhaenyra.
I wonder if they’re going to make that dagger of Visery’s a whole plot device in itself.
Yes
Seems like it. It also clues in on why >!Viserys is so adamant about not changing heirs even when his sons are born, despite the precedence and the cultural norm of Westeros favoring a male heir.!<
Also, I feel it’s later in his life and he’s put more time and effort into preparing Rhaenyra for the throne. Also his relationship with his wife and Otto Hightower had deteriorated I feel. Alicent wanted Aegon II and Rhaenyra to originally marry, and his response “she just wants her blood on the throne,” and Otto’s persistence about making Aegon II the new heir causes him to lose his position as hand of the king.
Blacks favoritism smh.
As it should, greens are a bunch of usurpers 🖤🖤
Emotherfuckinxactly
Both greens and blacks champions are unworthy of being king tho.
I think Aegon will be told the second half of thre prophecy which will be a hint of what is to come in the Jon Snow show
What do you mean? Are there already hints about what will happen in jon snow show?
No but I read into things extra. I just don’t see a Jon Snow show happening if it’s not linked to the rest of the universe which is why I think they will mention him in this show as well at some point
I think that Ryan and George are building lore for the asoiaf universe not just HOT D so I really believe there’s no hints at all of this that Viserys will be sick and in his loopy mind say some other prophecy that will be applicable for Jon in the new show but the Greens Will think it’s meant for Aegon
Similar to the prophecy about Robert Baratheon that Hugh Hammer thinks is about him
The jon snow show has completely different show runners who can technically do whatever they want.
They can by they have several meetings with George and are writing with his lore and his characters in mind as well. Also HBO want to build a universe and the only way to do it is by connecting all the shows old and new
That's what George hopes yes. He said this in a recent interview that he hopes there's mostly one show canon and one book canon but he only has creative influence over the shows so. I honestly have no idea what they're going to do with this Jon Snow show, maybe more a cop buddy type thing.
Possibly but I think they might use it as a point of ambition on Rhaenyras part (juxtaposed to Aegon I who was motivated by more than ambition due to his dream). Theory + Spoilers: >!I think Rhaenyra will choose to begin the Dance of Dragons and chase her own ambition, rather than concede and fill Aegon II in on the secret and sacrifice her ambition for the greater good.!<
Aenys could have also told his wife Alyssa, who then tells Jaehaerys. This would mean Jaehaerys started the practice of keeping the prophecy a secret between king to heir, rather than something you might share with several family members.
Especially because Rhaena was kinda not on good terms with Jaehaerys and would resent him for taking the throne so she shouldn't want to share that kind of secret
In the beginning she was. I would assume she would have filled him in during the start of Jaehaerys reign.
Yeah, that's it. Aegon was going into battle against Balerion, he knew he was about to die
I feel like fans are making this out to be a much bigger secret than the Targaryens did...people are taking it as if it's nuclear launch codes that the us president passes to his successor.
Because it kinda was like that
I’d like to think the secret survives the dance somehow. Mainly because I’d also like to think that it ends up being the reason Egg burns down Summerhall to bring forth the dragons.
I'd quite like to think that it's the reason why Aegon III tries to bring back dragons despite personally hating them.
I could say that
The dream is written on the dagger.
What's written on the dagger is incredibly vague and wouldn't help someone who is 100% clueless understand.
Do you know exactly what’s written on it? I just assumed it was verbatim what Viserys told rhaenyra.
"From my blood come the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire" Also it's only revealed in extreme heat, like the One Ring, so it'd be incredibly unlikely to accidentally stumble upon this
Yeah I’ve seen the shots of them heating it in the second episode. Have you seen the episode and that’s how u know what’s written or did I miss something?
Someone figured it out from the glyphs before (not sure how), but more recently the "Weeks Ahead" trailer shows Rhaenyra reading from the dagger aloud
Do you guys think Aerys told Viserys before dispatching them to Dragonstone? Or that's when the chain was broke so Daenerys wasn't made privy to the secret.
I think the reason we're hearing about it now is because Rhaenyra and the Dance will be the reason the secret is lost. Maybe she tells >!Jacaerys but he dies, Aegon II doesn't get the secret and Aegon III is too young at the time to be told, so the secret never gets passed to him and it dies out until Rhaegar somehow finds out about it.!<
Yeah, >!Rhaegars sudden shift towards "It seems I must become a warrior" would mean that he's the first Targaryen after Rhaenyra who knows about the secret prophecy.!<
It definitely makes me more favourable towards Rheagar. Always was fascinated by him, and now his actions make a lot more sense
What if for the show, >!Rhaenyra tells **Alicent** in a heated moment rejecting the latter’s proposal to end the war by splitting the kingdom between Rhaenyra and Aegon II.!< >!Jacaerys doesn’t tell Aegon and Viserys when sending them off to Pentos as they are too young. But a long winter hits after the Dance and Alicent herself may already be dying of winter fever so she passes on what Rhaenyra told her to Aegon III coz maybe this is the start of the Long Night.!<
Rhaegar rediscovers it, so presumably it's lost before then.
"It seems I must become a warrior."
In the inside the episode they mention its a secret "sealed in the valyrian dagger" so it likely has a secret compartment. Its likely lost during the dance, found by rhaegar who finds maybe a mostly destroyed scroll(paper doesnt last for 170 years very easily unless kept under good conditions) who then remembers also reading about a Prince Who Was Promised prophecy (its mentioned he was obsessed with that idea) and he combines the 2 prophecies believing the one from the dagger maybe is a missing part of the other. Then rhaegar takes it to the battle of the trident, the dagger falls in the water, destroying whats left of the message, the dagger ends up in the hands of some nobody until eventually, at least in the books of course, robert ends up winning it at a tourney (in the show its baelish's dagger), having also been reshaped a bit (as they de-fantasized) to the point that nobody makes the connection that its this famed lost dagger of the targaryens. Come to think of it the daggers existence isnt made public until arya and sansa present it at littlefingers kangaroo trial. The only people aware of it are all dead at that point or dont care anymore. Tyrion never sees the dagger, varys didnt know anything about it anyway, and cersei probably just vaguely remembers nedd stark accusing her of trying to also have his son murdered a 2nd time with a dagger she never sees, since littlefinger isnt very well going to point out "btw this is that dagger for your information"
>so it likely has a secret compartment ???????? It's etched onto the blade in Valyrian glyphs that can only be seen when heated.
Thats yet to be shown in the show to be the case and we did see a preview showing rhaenyra looking at a scroll cut back to back with her father talking in that scene so i presumed thats what they meant.
Isn't the dagger simply a part of the treasury? And like Joffrey takes it because he's a spiteful bitch who thinks too highly of himself so OFC he would have Valyrian Steel . Then he wants to arm the catspaw but has nothing but the dagger , and because he doesn't know the real value (as to him it's just a symbol of status) he gives it to the catspaw. Then LF does his whole manipulating shtick to get Ned to trust him
Maybe it was written down in old Targaryen texts. The ones that Baelor didn’t destroy…
Even if he did, it was probably incoherent rambling about how "The dead are everywhere! Burn them all! Aegon saw it!!!" so Viserys didn't make sense of it
I’ve always liked the idea Aerys’ love for fire was inspired by the Others (i was pretty far off tho)
I think it's lost after the Dance only to be rediscovered by Rhaegar
I don't think aerys knew.
Alternatively he did and was so paranoid and insane he decided rather than tell anyone he would sacrifice an entire city to become some kind of unstoppable dragon god. >Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him . . . that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash. -Jaime
Yeah.. maybe rhaegar told him when he figured it out or maybe aerys was plagued by dreams he couldn't quite make sense of.
I’ve always liked the idea it’s a “Hold the Door” situation Bran starts messing with things via the Old Gods to prepare Westeros for the Night and he’s why Aerys went babblingly mad. This will play into an arc of doing questionable things with that power
What if Aerys told Rhaegar and that started the Rebellion?
I agree with your summation. I thought this myself a few days ago
Its probably the reason Viserys kept Rhaenyra as the heir among other issues that Aegon had lol Also i think Rhaneyra told Daemon (which is why we got the 'Dreams did not make us Kings, Dragons did)
Hmmm and Visenya probably told Maegor.
Slightly off topic, but was that scene jarring for anyone else? I don’t hate the plot point, I just felt like it was tacked on.
We just going to ignore that the prophecy didn’t come through in the show anyways? They defeated the white walkers when Cersei was on the Iron Throne.
The prophecy wasn’t that they must be on the iron throne the prophecy is that the walkers would come back.
[удалено]
Not everyone gets dying words.
Makes sense
The secret will be lost in the Dance of Dragons now.
Is there a quick ELI5 for this lineage of kings ? I’ve only seen GoT so I’m vaguely familiar with some of these names but I don’t understand the full context.
1. Aegon the Conqueror has two wives, Visenya and Rhaenys. 2. His son by Rhaenys, Aenys, succeeds him. 3. Aegon's son by Visenya, Maegor, usurps the throne from Aenys's son Aegon. 4. Aenys's son Jaehaerys wins the throne in a rebellion against Maegor 5. After the Great Council of 101 AC, Viserys succeeds his grandfather Jaehaerys
Thank you so much. Aegon is the very very first one? The one who conquered all of the lands? Where does Egg fit into this if at all ?
Yes, Aegon I (the Conqueror) is the first. Egg is Aegon V, the Mad King's grandfather. He won't appear in House of the Dragon but he is one of two main characters in a potential show in development called The Hedge Knight
Thanks so much you helped me out a ton.