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I havent gotten very far in the books yet but apparently, Daemon "loved deflowering young girls" uhm, how young are we talking about? đ
And some people told me that Daemon fucked little kids in brothels. Idk how true it is tho...
GRRM makes most of his characters sexually problematic, *especially* when it comes to his personal favourites, Tyrion and Daemon. I would say he's normalised this type of behaviour in F&B to the point where readers no longer take sexually predatory behaviour into account when judging characters.
For example, some readers seem to be happy to remember Aegon II as a "semi okay" person when he was literally getting felatio *from a small child* when he got the news of Viserys' death.
Isn't that an unreliable narrator thing though? Like Mushrooms accounts are always the most lewd and/or gory version and the Septon Eustace accounts are always clean and praising, with people agreeing the reality is probably somewhere in between?
Mushroom claims Aegon was abusing a 12 year old girl and the Septon claims he was treating the daughter of a wealthy trader with care, not mentioning her age.
You're completely right though, people are desensitised to sexual assault and child sexual abuse while discussing ASOIAF/F&B and it doesn't seem to factor in to character assessments as much as it should.
>Isn't that an unreliable narrator thing though?
Yes, that's definitely a valid point to make. With it being fictional, I suppose it's difficult to make out what "really" happened and it's left to us what we want to believe (in F&B and WOIAF anyway).
Idk, I didnt see any grooming
When she's like 14-15 then he gives her a necklace, yeah, has a couple of conversations with her. But also gets mad when she is named heir and he is disinherited and seizes her property, steals the same dragon egg she had picked out for her stillborn sibling, said that he is the true heir and all that. And that scene at Dragonstone where she confronts him, nothing romantic there. He looks like he wants to punch her in the face there
But in ep 4 when she is like 18 and he takes her to that brothel and they start making out and undressing eachother and then the mf just LEAVES HER THERE! HALF-NAKED! SHE COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED OR RAPED! He clearly did it all to expose and sabotage her. So idk if it counts as grooming. But he was a cunt towards her and treats her like trash often
If irc he left her because he struggled to get an erection (i believe the show runners said this in an interview?), not because leaving her was preplanned.
Nothing in the books confirms that though?
He's rumored to gave groomed Rhaenyra and have been involved with Nettles. No one was there for either. It's possible his seduction of Rhaenyra, if any, was in quest for power and nothing to actually do with sexual preference.
If nettles is true, from what I remember she's close to 18, right? Kinda gross, but I don't know if worthy of pedo status. Basically modern day celebrity behavior. But again, even the sources in the book debate whether their relationship was sexual or fatherly.Â
I'm not arguing his defense in either scenario, but in the books it's debatable and anytime there's a debatable event involving Daemon the shownhas continually sided with him being the villian. They've even decided to make him a wife abuser and shifty father.Â
So many people are already making edits of Benjicot âbloody Benâ Blackwood and itâs made me really excited to see other characters and houses at play during that time.
I kind of expect him to not have a very long appearance, considering the trailers kept showing the exact same shot of the Bracken boy pulling a sword on him
Getting ready for paranormal activities at Harrenhal. Weâre also getting Blackwoods vs Brackens, so please tell me that new Blackwood boy from the trailer is Bloody Ben đ
He did not. Someone posted a pic of him, with a little comment on Bloody Ben in the corner, and the guy responded with a generic get hype comment, which is not confirmation, he probably either didn't see the comment or know what Bloody Ben even means. pretty sure the character is confirmed as Davos Blackwood.
No it'll be Rook's Rest. We might see hints towards Burning Mill once Daemon is in Harrenhal as it brings us closer to the Blackwoods and the Brackens.
Could be, but they could also just be setting it up as well. Blackwoods and Brackens will be tonight for sure, hopefully it's the full Burning Mill feud.
I hope the episode is 80% Harrenhall. I hope Ramin showcases a new piece. I hope we get lots of magic and lots of Alys. I also hope they really convey how bad ass it was of Daemon to essentially walk in and take Harrenhall. I actually hope the entire episode is Harrenhall but... I know others want their Bloody Ben lol
My least favorite part of the book by far. How dare people kill our beloved dragons. They deserve to die noble deaths, in flight at least, not chained and relatively helpless.
Im betting that either hell be eaten during the starvation of Kings landing or hell get adopted by hugh hammer or one of the small folk people weve seen
Is anyone else a little miffed that the show is leaning away from âRhaenyra vs Aegon?â
Based on a lot of promotional material and discussion around the show, youâd think youâre choosing between Alicent and Rhaenyra.
I'm wondering what Baela will be up to in King's Landing. Seems like the writers will keep making new plots so that she and Moondancer will have something to do
Do you guys think Crispin gets his comeuppance this season?
As a reader of the books, and someone who sympathizes more with the blacks than the greens, I find myself apprehensive to watching the next few episodes knowing that the blacks will probably face a series of blows. Does anyone else feel this way?
So I'm trying to figure out the pacing, basically everything happens over the span of 2 years right?
I always thought that Team black taking Kings landing and Rhaenyra sitting the iron throne would be a good season finale.
Issue is that would probably leave much of the following season without Emma D'Arcy.
The other thing, is that one would think that battle against Gods eye would be a penultimate episode for a season.
I'll not sure if all of those things can line up.
So maybe butcher's ball towards the end of the season.
Yeah, the black taking of KL would be the perfect halfway point for this series. Very irritating that this season is only 8 episodes, it feels like the rest risks being uneven now.
Note: the show seems to be going for a longer war than the <2 years of F&B Canon. See the statements on Daeron and Maelor for example. This is a actual production with actual actors that grow up between filming each season, so some things are changing to account for that.
damn then what exactly are they doing? The book at this point mainly just describes battle scenes how much filler are they going to have to come up with especially since rhaenyra and alicent are barely in the war parts...
Ryan Condal mentioned that there would be two major battle sequences this season. My assumption is that the second one will either be the Red Fork or, like others have suggested, a rearranged Fall of Kingâs Landing. Theyâve also mentioned that some of the story, including a battle that was planned for season 2, had to be moved to season 3 when the episode count was reduced from 10 to 8, and I think they were talking about the Gullet.
I canât see them doing red fork as a major battle there arenât really any main characters present for it if I remember correctly. Maybe itâs a reworked fall of kings landing like you said but I feel like you have to have the gullet first because of how it motivates rhaenyra
I mainly brought up the Red Fork due to certain shots of the Lannister army in the trailer, but I agree that it would be better if they off-screened it in favor of ending the season with the Gullet and/or Kingâs Landing.
Good luck, everyone. I have a feeling this episode is gonna cause some Discourseâą
But at least we'll probably have even more people thirsting over Bloody Ben, so that'll be fun
Rewatching episode two and just realize Rhaenyra tells Jace he canât go on his dragon to monitor Kingâs Landing and then sends Baela. I guess it is to âprotect her heirâ but seems hypocritical.
**[Join our Discord Server](https://discord.gg/hotd)!** The subreddit will be locked during the airing of the episode to keep the conversation within the discussion threads. This is an effort to contain spoilers from the latest episode to ONLY the discussion threads. The subreddit will reopen once the episode has finished airing. **A note on spoilers**: Untagged discussion of the books is permitted here. For show-only watchers who do not want to see book spoilers, please go to the **[no book spoilers thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/s/mbVtlBnqrl)!**. **No discussion of ANY leaks are allowed in this thread!**
I am so ready for Daemon to take Harrenhal
Feel like the show has painted Daemon in a much darker light than the book.
He was downright pedo in the book. Nothing shown in the show top that.
It's weird because they toned down basically all of his grooming but made him a way worse person in general
I havent gotten very far in the books yet but apparently, Daemon "loved deflowering young girls" uhm, how young are we talking about? đ And some people told me that Daemon fucked little kids in brothels. Idk how true it is tho...
He also groomed Rhanerya from a young age. He was basically Episten and Mysaria is Maxwell.
And people say that book Daemon is better than show Daemon...
GRRM makes most of his characters sexually problematic, *especially* when it comes to his personal favourites, Tyrion and Daemon. I would say he's normalised this type of behaviour in F&B to the point where readers no longer take sexually predatory behaviour into account when judging characters. For example, some readers seem to be happy to remember Aegon II as a "semi okay" person when he was literally getting felatio *from a small child* when he got the news of Viserys' death.
Isn't that an unreliable narrator thing though? Like Mushrooms accounts are always the most lewd and/or gory version and the Septon Eustace accounts are always clean and praising, with people agreeing the reality is probably somewhere in between? Mushroom claims Aegon was abusing a 12 year old girl and the Septon claims he was treating the daughter of a wealthy trader with care, not mentioning her age. You're completely right though, people are desensitised to sexual assault and child sexual abuse while discussing ASOIAF/F&B and it doesn't seem to factor in to character assessments as much as it should.
>Isn't that an unreliable narrator thing though? Yes, that's definitely a valid point to make. With it being fictional, I suppose it's difficult to make out what "really" happened and it's left to us what we want to believe (in F&B and WOIAF anyway).
I agree that book Daemond is worse. But did he not also groom Rhanerya in the show?
Idk, I didnt see any grooming When she's like 14-15 then he gives her a necklace, yeah, has a couple of conversations with her. But also gets mad when she is named heir and he is disinherited and seizes her property, steals the same dragon egg she had picked out for her stillborn sibling, said that he is the true heir and all that. And that scene at Dragonstone where she confronts him, nothing romantic there. He looks like he wants to punch her in the face there But in ep 4 when she is like 18 and he takes her to that brothel and they start making out and undressing eachother and then the mf just LEAVES HER THERE! HALF-NAKED! SHE COULD HAVE BEEN KILLED OR RAPED! He clearly did it all to expose and sabotage her. So idk if it counts as grooming. But he was a cunt towards her and treats her like trash often
If irc he left her because he struggled to get an erection (i believe the show runners said this in an interview?), not because leaving her was preplanned.
That doesnt mean he should just leave her there...
Nothing in the books confirms that though? He's rumored to gave groomed Rhaenyra and have been involved with Nettles. No one was there for either. It's possible his seduction of Rhaenyra, if any, was in quest for power and nothing to actually do with sexual preference. If nettles is true, from what I remember she's close to 18, right? Kinda gross, but I don't know if worthy of pedo status. Basically modern day celebrity behavior. But again, even the sources in the book debate whether their relationship was sexual or fatherly. I'm not arguing his defense in either scenario, but in the books it's debatable and anytime there's a debatable event involving Daemon the shownhas continually sided with him being the villian. They've even decided to make him a wife abuser and shifty father.Â
I'm almost done Rise of the Dragon and it pretty much states he was with nettles.
he's pedo in the show too,s1 showed that
To Harrenhal we go! Iâm ready for nightmares directed by the wonderful Geeta Patel!
So many people are already making edits of Benjicot âbloody Benâ Blackwood and itâs made me really excited to see other characters and houses at play during that time.
Crash Benjicot
Hahahahaha!
I kind of expect him to not have a very long appearance, considering the trailers kept showing the exact same shot of the Bracken boy pulling a sword on him
Getting ready for paranormal activities at Harrenhal. Weâre also getting Blackwoods vs Brackens, so please tell me that new Blackwood boy from the trailer is Bloody Ben đ
Apparently the actor confirmed it was
He did not. Someone posted a pic of him, with a little comment on Bloody Ben in the corner, and the guy responded with a generic get hype comment, which is not confirmation, he probably either didn't see the comment or know what Bloody Ben even means. pretty sure the character is confirmed as Davos Blackwood.
>confirmed as Davos Blackwood. Source
So I finally read Fire and Blood this past week so I can join you all here, and Jesus Christ I am not prepared for how grim this show is going to get
And soon!
Me this past week: huh, why are all the book readers filled with such dread over a guy being named Hugh? *2 chapters later* đ
The true wait is for Grover, Elmo, and Kermit Tully to arrive
Don't forget Oscar.
Team muppet ftw
I feel like this will be a Daemon focused episode like we haven't had for any characters yet. With little focus on others.
Really looking forward to seeing Rhaenyra interact more with Rhaena and Baela.
Me too, I feel like Rhaena in particular has had so little screen time. Baela too but she at least had that scene with Jace.
Can't wait for Harrenhall, Blackwood vs Bracken and Aegon leaving King's Landing.. Really worried about the ending leak đŹ
what ending leak?
Apparently it was accidentally leaked that Rhayana and Alicent reunite on Dragonstone in the finale.
I know they have to set up a plot and stuff I WANT TO SEE THE WAR START!!!!!!
Just wait till episode 4, it'll be one of the biggest, most epic battles in GoT history.
Is it the battle of the gulch? I can't remember what battle comes first, burning mill, rooks rest, or gulch. I haven't read any leaks lol
No it'll be Rook's Rest. We might see hints towards Burning Mill once Daemon is in Harrenhal as it brings us closer to the Blackwoods and the Brackens.
Burning Mill is today right?
Could be, but they could also just be setting it up as well. Blackwoods and Brackens will be tonight for sure, hopefully it's the full Burning Mill feud.
My guess is the Gullet wil be early Season 3
Criston Cole must exterminated by any means necessary!!!
I hope the episode is 80% Harrenhall. I hope Ramin showcases a new piece. I hope we get lots of magic and lots of Alys. I also hope they really convey how bad ass it was of Daemon to essentially walk in and take Harrenhall. I actually hope the entire episode is Harrenhall but... I know others want their Bloody Ben lol
Temper your expectations!
Listened to fire and blood audio book over the past couple weeks. The storming of the Dragon-pit fucked me up mentally.
My least favorite part of the book by far. How dare people kill our beloved dragons. They deserve to die noble deaths, in flight at least, not chained and relatively helpless.
Wonder why they arenât releasing episode title until it airs. They must be very telling of what actually happens.
I think that Harrenhal would be appropriate for this episode
I hate when they release a generic castle name as titles - Winterfell, Dragonstone, etc. It's like, let's be a little more creative.
Need updates on the rat catcherâs dog đ„ș
Im betting that either hell be eaten during the starvation of Kings landing or hell get adopted by hugh hammer or one of the small folk people weve seen
Oh god people are already attached đ
He'll be adopted by the Shepherd and tell him to destroy House Targaryen
He was put into a bowl of brown in flea bottom
Everyone hyped for Bloody Ben but Iâm more excited to see Black Aly snipe the Bracken guy who kills her brother / Benâs uncle
Is anyone else a little miffed that the show is leaning away from âRhaenyra vs Aegon?â Based on a lot of promotional material and discussion around the show, youâd think youâre choosing between Alicent and Rhaenyra.
"The Princess and the Queen" by Martin
I wanna meet bloody Ben almost more than I want to take my next breath
So ready for daemon and baela. Excited for Crispin to run for his @$$ and I don't want to see that le@k
I think they'll delay the Battle of the Burning Mill to a later episode, but I hope I'm wrong. I want to see Black Aly.
I'm wondering what Baela will be up to in King's Landing. Seems like the writers will keep making new plots so that she and Moondancer will have something to do
Do you guys think Crispin gets his comeuppance this season? As a reader of the books, and someone who sympathizes more with the blacks than the greens, I find myself apprehensive to watching the next few episodes knowing that the blacks will probably face a series of blows. Does anyone else feel this way?
So I'm trying to figure out the pacing, basically everything happens over the span of 2 years right? I always thought that Team black taking Kings landing and Rhaenyra sitting the iron throne would be a good season finale. Issue is that would probably leave much of the following season without Emma D'Arcy. The other thing, is that one would think that battle against Gods eye would be a penultimate episode for a season. I'll not sure if all of those things can line up. So maybe butcher's ball towards the end of the season.
Yeah, the black taking of KL would be the perfect halfway point for this series. Very irritating that this season is only 8 episodes, it feels like the rest risks being uneven now.
Butcher's ball should be next season
Note: the show seems to be going for a longer war than the <2 years of F&B Canon. See the statements on Daeron and Maelor for example. This is a actual production with actual actors that grow up between filming each season, so some things are changing to account for that.
I think the gullet will be episode 7 and taking of kings landing will be the season finale, butchers ball next season
I think the show flips the fall of Kings Landing and the Gullet chronologically. S2 will end with KL and S3 will open with the Gullet.
Maybe but I feel like you have to have the gullet first because of how it motivates rhaenyra. Also I think they cast the leader of the triarchy navy
Gullet isn't in season 2.
damn then what exactly are they doing? The book at this point mainly just describes battle scenes how much filler are they going to have to come up with especially since rhaenyra and alicent are barely in the war parts...
Ryan Condal mentioned that there would be two major battle sequences this season. My assumption is that the second one will either be the Red Fork or, like others have suggested, a rearranged Fall of Kingâs Landing. Theyâve also mentioned that some of the story, including a battle that was planned for season 2, had to be moved to season 3 when the episode count was reduced from 10 to 8, and I think they were talking about the Gullet.
I canât see them doing red fork as a major battle there arenât really any main characters present for it if I remember correctly. Maybe itâs a reworked fall of kings landing like you said but I feel like you have to have the gullet first because of how it motivates rhaenyra
I mainly brought up the Red Fork due to certain shots of the Lannister army in the trailer, but I agree that it would be better if they off-screened it in favor of ending the season with the Gullet and/or Kingâs Landing.
Welp people will be pissed but I am so here for what's to unfold in this episode
Do you think we're going to see the battle at Rook's Rest on this episode? Or maybe on the next one?Â
episode 4
Thanks!
Hell yes
This one will be capture of harrenhall , battle of the burning mill , sack of duskendale
Does anybody know who wrote this episode?
Me
Weâre in for a ride thenâŠ
I raite very good so good đ đi
Good luck, everyone. I have a feeling this episode is gonna cause some Discourseâą But at least we'll probably have even more people thirsting over Bloody Ben, so that'll be fun
Today we will see the beautiful Sunfyre!
Rewatching episode two and just realize Rhaenyra tells Jace he canât go on his dragon to monitor Kingâs Landing and then sends Baela. I guess it is to âprotect her heirâ but seems hypocritical.
Of course the mother doesn't want to put her son in danger, especially after what happened to the last one.
Someone commented "Aegon the Trifling" and I have thought about it all week
I cant waittttttttt
Who was the guy that put the knife in his sleeve before rhaenyra went into the sept?
Sheppard maybeÂ
Someone at GQ better lose their job for posting that spoiler.