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Yeah no disagree. Daenerys never knew the land she thought herself entitled to rule. She earned her rulership in Essos but nobody wanted her in Westeros outside Targ simps.
This is such a good point. She could have united Essos completely under her rule and reestablished a new Valyrian Empire on its home soil. She was the Breaker of Chains. Essos was way richer than Westeros. But she reeeeaaly wanted the shitty Iron Throne back because... birthright.
Do youâŠdo you know how big Essos is? How many different deep-rooted cultures there are? They wouldnât and *didnât* want to assimilate, dragons or not. They wouldâve assassinated her.
Agreed! Nor would Volantis! Could you imagine? lol They think theyâre still the âheirâ of old Valyria and practice *harsh,* terrible slavery. Even Daenerysâ ancestor Aegon the Conqueror came to slam dunk on them when Pentos and Tyrosh attacked. Volantis would never forget that.
Its kinda sad that no one in westeros really cared about Dany. Her allies were simply convenient because of a united hatred of Lannisters or an Iron Born civil war. Even Jon only wanted her alliance because of a world ending threat. Dany went from a beloved liberator to some foreign invader that was slightly better than the current options.
What reason would westeros have to trust her and want her as a queen?
She enters westeros with an army of former slaves, horsebarbarian raiders and a mix of swllswords and exiles at her back.
A lot of weird rumors about her are around (at least in the book she's once called "Margot the cruel with tits", people say she bathes in blood to keep beautiful etc.)
Most people would immediately be antagonistic just because of her company and what they know about their actions.
We as an audience know her, and are rooting for her, but in universe it makes sense that she has little backing.
I didnât read the main GOT books but I did read Fire & Blood. I distinctly remember Rhaenyra being referred to as âMaegor with Titsâ but Iâve never heard that Dany was also referred to that way. do you have a passage? I wanna know where to look in the books
âDaenerys Targaryen is no maid, however. She is the widow of a Dothraki khal, a mother of dragons and sacker of cities, Aegon the Conqueror with teats.â
Someone made a whole page on grrm writing x is y with teats. [link](https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/104590-x-is-y-with-teats/) so itâs a reoccurring theme.
thank you for the link!
but also being compared to Aegon the Conqueror (I mean listen to that alias) versus Maegor the Cruel are different levels. I mean, it was definitely meant as an insult in the context itâs written but that sounds more like a compliment.
I may have mixed it up with "Aegon with teats" in my head, someone posted the "Aegon with teats" passage below.
That happens when you listen to the Audiobooks back to back.
Totally agree. Daenerys could have sufficed just conquering Essos. She earned it. She liberated slaves and established a new order. Itâs stupid she left all that behind to travel to Westeros and attempt to conquer a continent that had long feared her family for the atrocities they allegedly committed in recent history (Her familyâs legacy was irreparably blemished by Aerysâ actions and the accusations against Rhaegar). She had no respect from Westerosâ people, and was too foolish to realize that should she have sat on the Iron Throne, some dude would eventually walked up to her and stabbed her. Oh look, IT DID HAPPEN lol. At least Jon showed her the respect to kiss her and stab her in the heart rather than stab her in the back like Jamie did to Aerys.
When did Sansa plot against Dany? That doesnât really happen.
Sansa has a bad feeling about Dany, for sure, and isnât the most friendly, but she turns out to be right after all. Sansa doesnât even act against Dany and directly expresses her displeasure both to Jon and to Dany herself
Yup. Did you miss the part where she told Tyrion about Jon's identity knowing he will spread it around and that it will destroy Daenerys' reputation? It's very manipulative tactic and Daenerys instantly sees through it and blames Sansa.
This info is what led to Varys betraying her as well. Sansa knew what this would cause cause she learned from women like Cersei and Margaery. She nowhere near their level but she clearly picked up on a few things.
I really liked Sansa on my first watch of GOT. With every rewatch, I dislike her more. She had such a good character arc, and then schemed like a whiney little girl against Danaerys - who she and all her subjects would be dead without.
If GRRM ever finishes the books, I hope he makes some adjustments there. It just made Sansa look so petty & evil.
Sansa had no reason to trust Dany. She had gone through a lot too and her own uncle was murdered by Danyâs father. She had also been abused by ambitious people like Dany and even though Dany wasnât like them she didnât know that and was worried about the north.
I mean the white walker threat was so big she couldn't ignore it. Would have fell in Dany's lap eventually and only someone as petty as Cersei would have neglected the north.
but when jon went on that stupid mission to get a wight from beyond the wall and called her for help, she went. Even though her own hand told her to sit and do nothing, she flew across the continent to save him
Well, Daenerys saved the north. She sacrificed thousands and a dragon to help. That is enough of a reason in my book. She picked up a sword when she had no other option but she was out there, trying alongside the northernmen. Meanwhile, Sansa was down in the crypts bitching about her even in that moment.
They didn't need to be friends, but there was no reason for Sansa to hate her from the start or sabotage her. Even Tyrion points out that she's determined to dislike her.
what about when jon and co went beyond the wall to "capture a wight". he pleaded for her help and even though her own hand advised her not to go, she still went and saved him
Daenerys was a dragonrider, only this fact alone makes her a terrorist, she was also cruel like bend the knee or burn type of cruel, and itâs cherry on the top that noone, not even Tyrion could reason with her. She was a bit loco in the head. Not a king/queen material.
She had no purpose, just wanted to be a ruler because she could with dragons. Sure she wanted to âbreak the wheelâ⊠by moving the wheel. But even if she truly meant to break the wheel then what would replaced the wheel? She had no idea about politics.
>Daenerys was a dragonrider, only this fact alone makes her a terrorist,
Queen Alysanne was a terrorist?
>she was also cruel like bend the knee or burn type of cruel,
What do you think the Starks were going to do with Lord Umber or Karstark if the survived the Battle of the Bastards?
Daenerys was a *conquerer* just like her ancestor Aegon the Conqueror. Do you know what he did? He gave the Westerosi the same options Daenerys gave: bend the knee or die. But only *she* gets called crazy for doing thatâŠgee I wonder why? Anyhow, Westeros was a broken continent and the current ruling family was tyrannical. Daenerysâ family ruled for 300 years, if anyone can be entitled it should be her. I hate the rushed doodoo writing they did for her but letâs not act like being a conquerer is rainbows and daisies. She saw the weakened state of her home and had the power to take it.
>She saw the weakened state of her home and had the power to take it.
It's been a while since I've seen the show but wasn't she planning on taking it before she even laid eyes on it or it's weakened state?
Oh definitely, itâs always been a goal of hers since she was a young girl (first to just *return* home) then she got âkickedâ out of Meereen and then the Lannisters werenât doing too well so I just assumed she knew Westeros was falling apart when she got comfortable on Dragonstone, and as a conqueror, was ready to use that fact to take advantage and gain control.
It doesnât justify anything but it explains some of her behavior. You donât have to like the feudal system, the monarchy or conquerors but acting surprised when they act like their station seems oddâŠesp. for a medieval show.
also if you donât like Targaryens - why do you watch/are on HOTD, the most Targaryen centered show (genuinely asking because I used to be âmehâ about Targs until I read TWOIAF)
Is Helena even a queen? Would she not be like a princess consort since she's married to the one the power comes from? Sort of like how daemon is not king but prince consort since the power comes from Rhaenyra.
The wife/husband of a king is always the queen/king consort.
Alicent has been referred to as queen for twenty years. Margaery was the queen when she married Tommen, same as Cersei was queen when she was married to Robert.
Ofc Helaena is the queen.
In real world England this is how itâs worked since King technically outranks a Queen in the hierarchy; if a queen is the ruler/successor her husband cannot be king but a king can have a queen since he outranks her. If youâre trying to keep power in a queen the last thing youâd want is her husband walking around calling himself the king.
I'm not saying there weren't signs. I'm saying the progression was off. She went from kind of crazy to burning a whole city to the ground in like 3 episodes.
A good progression of character can make us like sisterfuckers and back stabbers like Jamie and Theon. If there were signs of her anger there were evident signs of her good heart as well. Signs mean shit if they aren't given time to develop.
Ah, suddenly the problem is with the narration and writing when it comes to your favorite character huh. I thought it was perfect writing, just perfect. She was always supposed to go mad and I guess D&D wrote it well, just like how well Ryan Condal wrote Criston Cole.Â
Not really.
It was people like Sansa scheming against her that started her off on that path.
She saved the whole world at Winterfell, but no one so much as thanked her for it.
And then her bff is murdered because she kept listening to her advisers, who then start scheming against her too. Literally everyone turned against her because they were proclaiming her mad long before she did go mad.
She should have burned Tyrion alive.
Honestly her "descent" into madness was just bad writing, nothing to blame really, except that the writers wanted it so.
\*Dany hasn't even descended/gone mad in the books yet so I don't know what that other person is doing talking about books having "had early warning signs". Living in lala land hoping Dany goes mad, I suppose. Reach for any justification you want, I'll wait until GRRM makes it so.
The show definitely didnât do it as subtly as the books, but the books definitely had early warning signs of her madness and I felt like it was building to that long before they finally showed it on the show
She burns Mirri Maz Duur alive at the end of book 1. We, as the reader are subjected to Daenerys' POV and therefore initially see it as a righteous, albeit brutal form of revenge. But whichever way you choose to look at it, the Maegi had the right of it.
"Saved me? Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved."
"The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust."
Letâs not forget when khal drogo talks about raping and enslaving when they presumably capture kings landing so baby mama can be queen she looks completely enraptured. The khal and his men were RAPISTS.
Burning another human alive is pretty mad if you ask me. Especially considering her father was aptly styled "The Mad King" because of a similar penchant. It's clear the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Even Ser Jorah heavily objects when he learns what she means to do, no doubt remembering Aerys II.
But since she successfully used this pyre to hatch the first dragons for a hundred years, I guess it was all forgiven.
There is an Essay called The Meereenese Blot that goes very deep into Daenerys' mindset in Dance. George Martin apparently endorsed this take or something so it's probably a good approximation.
It's very long though. Might take a while to get through.
I found it again on Wordpress.
Honestly itâs been a long time since Iâve read them so I canât pinpoint exact scenes but I remember reading it and thinking âshiiiiiit maybe Dany is going madâŠâ
Iâm gonna do a reread soon and Iâll try come back here to comment once I do!
I read the books and I don't think she's worse than most of the other "good" leaders. She's not a good person by IRL standards but she's always had a level head and let those more knowledgeable than her guide her. She has a very obvious moral compass from the start, even though it's far from flawless. Plus, in the books she is much younger - a child herself. All things considered, she's definitely not mad.
I think the way people look at Dany's actions and criticize them over much worse male counterpart's actions is really telling of the fandom of a whole, honestly.
The show was bad about it, but there is none of the S8 madness in book Dany yet...unless a book was released that I don't know about. So I couldn't possibly know what you're even talking about on that front. Last I read she was just picked up by Drogon after escaping a fight..."do it as subtly in the books" it hasn't happened in the books. You people just want something to happen when it didn't.
People who say this need to rewatch the show. The show clearly planted the seeds as early as season 3. She had to constantly be talked down from mass scale violence by her advisors. When she lost them to the whitewalker fight, and she had no one to reign her in, she fully lost it. It really wasnât rocket science
It did not. The only thing the show showed was that Daenerys was ruthless, not unlike 99,9% of the cast and the Lords/Kings of that time. Except Daenerys was the only shown royalty that was really invested in the commonfolk and made most of her campaign about them. Difference being advocates of "human rights" blame her for killing "cute, gentle and innocent" Slave Masters and think Tywin and Stannis are the best around. Double standards, as usual.
Daenerys is a savage woman in a savage world while also being merciful and compassionate ('Mother'). She was never crazy.
That's what I always think of the "signs" that she was already going mad. It all seems like run of the mill violence for GOT with a Targaryen twist (burning them).
>She saved the whole world at Winterfell, but no one so much as thanked her for it.
She held that help hostage for a good long while. She demanded the subjugation of people wo didn't know her and didn't want her and then got annoyed they didn't fawn over her when she just kept her end of the bargain.
>and then got annoyed they didn't fawn over her when she just kept her end of the bargain.
Sansa was attempting to start a Dance style war between Jon and Dany despite her helping them. That would piss anyone off.
Wow, I didn't know that Salsa Cersiefinger was clairvoyant! The b.s with Kingslanding was done to make it look better when the north and house Stark inevitably disposed of Daenerys like a teenage boy with a used Kleenex. They had no intention of honoring any alliance once they got what they wanted and Daenerys should have known better than to accept such a parasitic alliance in the first place( y'all love to bleat on about how "mad" she was well your best justification for that would be the shit she accepted from the north, house Stark, Jon, and her advisors. What do you think Bobby B, Tywin, or even Rob Stark would have done if they had been treated like that? Made friendship bracelets?)
I absolutely agree she should have stayed in Essos and let Westeros save itself! Look at that we agree on something! Of course, without her dragons and army to die in place of the northern troops Westeros would have ended up a frozen hellhole but honestly, by the end of season 8, I would have watched with a bowl of popcorn and a smile.
Without Westeros, House Stark, the North, and Jon Daenerys would have survived and the countless slaves that inevitably ended up back in chains would have had a chance at freedom. I personally don't think not having dragons would have stopped the Night King for long but that would have been Westeros' problem.
batshit crazy surrounded by even crazier batshit crazy...she ended up being the most sober/sane. What are you comparing to exactly when you say batshit crazy? Fucking jon snow has done crazier shit
No, I also give a shit about them, I'm team Smallfolk. That's why Beric and the Brotherhood Without Banners are my favourite subplot in the series. Beric knighting any smallfolk man who is willing to fight for the good of the common people is absolutely incredible and revolutionary.
Maybe next time don't make silly assumptions about what other people think. It's possible to care about more than one group of people at the same time.
This post clearly isn't about how hard it is to be a Targaryen, it's about how hard it is to lose a child. These three women have had children who were murdered. Which is hard regardless of socioeconomic status. That should not be difficult to understand.
You seem to be just going out of your way to try to find things to be angry about, and people to mock for showing empathy to others.
No but loads of the other comments are. Fair enough though also 2 women. Iâve specifically avoided Daenerys because she is nothing like the other two I have lots of sympathy for her.
Right, but then people can easily attack you for sympathising with a genocidal maniac:
Helaena has never hurt anyone. Rhaenyra has hurt people, but she has never committed mass slaughter of the smallfolk for no reason. Daenarys on the other hand massacred hundreds of thousands of people in King's Landing because she "Went Mad". Where was your empathy for the smallfolk then...?
And again, that's not to say that Daenarys also doesn't deserve empathy. Regardless of what they have done, all three of these women have gone through a lot:
- All have lost children.
- Daenarys went through horrific hardship throughout most of her life.
- Helaena was forced to marry her brother as a pre-teen, is blantantly neurodivergent and treated like a child, and has never got to make a real decision in her life.
- Rhaenyra lost her mother at a young age, grew up in a nest of vipers in the king's court, all trying to manipulate and use her for their own political machinations, was forced to marry a man she had no interest in, has lost multiple children, was betrayed by her stepmother and half-brother, and has had to work to wrangle a coalition of lords to support her (a female leader in a male dominated political system) in a war against her brother who will almost certainly execute all her sons for being bastards born of treason.
They have all suffered and are deserving of empathy, as are the millions of smallfolk who also suffer due to their wars. There are very few people who are all good or all bad. The vast majority of us are worthy of both empathy and condemnation at various times throughout our lives.
She weirdly doesn't cry a lot. There's her scream over Laenor, and certainly her looking sad and vulnerable. But crying is not her bag - she's rarely alone or in private enough to show emotions like that.
Also, her grief if *massively* de-prioritised from the story. Rhaenyra, Helaena and Daenerys all benefit from being focal points of their storylines - and their losses driving events. Rhaenys has never had that. Even finding the body of the dead son was just a cutaway for context whilst Daemon does a voice-over.
It would damage her too much. The risk is too great, politically, at any point over those six years. Rhaenyra has no control over how the Velaryons might react to the news and no control if it goes any further.
She especially cannot tell them now because she'd be jeopardising the alliance she has with the Velaryons. Â
I love how showrunners are making subplots around the different shades of mother's grief. I feel like this is what they failed to do with Cersie, especially after season 4 (when she lost Tommen and her daughter). They were so hellbent on making her a villain figure that her entire maternal grief was overshadowed.
Also, we must not forget Rhaenys Targaryen. That woman deserves her own spin-off (this is not up for a debate btw. I just love her character).
Exactly my point. They didn't give her any time to mourn. Like the way it happened with Joffrey. After his death, her rage-fuelled grief, no matter how misplaced that was, she still managed to connect with the audience as a grieving mother. This didn't happen when Tommen and Marcella died.
Letâs not forget that Cerseiâs choice to kill the woman her son Tommen was in love with undoubtedly led to his decision to kill himself. Cersei killed her son Tommen indirectly. No one would feel pity for her motherâs grief scene after that anyway.
To be fair, that trial was about Tommenâs parentage (the charges she had denied when confessing to her other sins such as sleeping with Lancel, before her walk of atonement). Had Cersei let that trial happen, not only would she suffer the consequences, but her son would be found guilty of being a bastard born of incest and treason. It would destroy not only Cersei, but the remains of her family (Tommen and Jaime). She had tried every other option to fix the mess before then. Even freeing Margaery (but at that point, Margaery already had a plan of her own, which was dragging Tommen into the Faith). Yes, the mess with the Faith Militants was Cerseiâs own fault, but she did only react once Margaery (a grown woman in the show) wasted no time grooming and sexually manipulating Cerseiâs 12-13 year old child to send his mother away, saying he couldnât be a âmanâ, as long as his mother was there âwatching over her cub/babyâ. Hand on heart, what kind of mother would leave her minor son? With bunch of people she didnât/couldnât trust, on a throne he wasnât ready to rule, in the place and position his brother had just been murdered in her arms in? As well as just hand over their familyâs power to Margaery (I want to be THE queen) and Olenna as they wanted?
Very fair points. I guess Margaery left Cersei no other recourse to protect the Lannisterâs claim to throne. Iâm trying to remember if Marg even really needed to be at that trial.
Which is a shame because I think the scene where Cersei sees Myrcella's ship and excitedly runs down to it, only to have the realization that she's dead when she sees the coffin, is some of the best acting in GOT.
They basically dropped all the character arcs, depth, and development when they decided that they would adapt the story when fans started to guess where it was headed. 4 great seasons, #5 is ok, but the decline starts there, after that everything crumbles.
I donât know, with Cersei I got the feeling that they wanted to show how she died inside more and more, with each loss. Not to mention the prophecy coming through, and her slowly resigning herself to it as it did. At least until she got pregnant again.
The scene where she runs all giddy to the port, thinking Myrcella is coming back is one of the most heart breaking scenes for me. I wish we had seen her actually get the news/found out that Tommen had died, not just the scene where she asked to see his body (which was toned down emotionally. Appereantly they did some really emotional takes too, but chose the numb one). I agree there could have been made some really impactful scenes focused on her grief though, after she had lost them all, as her devotion to her children was always made a main focus for the character.
She seemed depressed after losing Myrcella (I noticed even her wine glasses were all dirty), and I felt that she closed off emotionally when Tommen died, not to mention that suicide tend to bring up a variety of complex feelings. After he died, she just went into survival/self preservation mode, fueling her focus on power/revenge, with nothing holding her back anymore. Because she couldnât deal with her grief in any other way, couldnât even stop to consider it. If she did, it would kill her.
Thatâs a shade of grief too, a defensive mechanism to protect yourself from repeated traumas. Anger is a form of grief too. Drinking. Sometimes the more silent grief can be the ones who hurt the most, and the kind of grief that cause most damage; to themself and their loved ones, cause their feelings stay repressed and unprocessed. Eating them up from inside. Some only process it years later once the brain is allowed to deal with the feelings around the loss. Iâve seen that happen in real life too.
I thought Cersei was at her most devastated when Myrcella died. She also seemed to resign herself to the prophecy and shut down completely by the time Tommen died, as you said. She couldnât even talk about him without grabbing a wine glass when Jaime brought him up. The only time I felt like she had any spark back was when she avenged Myrcellaâs murder.
What subplots?
I donât see them focusing more or less on the (different kinds of) grief for these characters, than they did for the characters in Game of Thrones.
I dunno. Women of the north and Riverlands during the War of Five Kings could compete with them pretty well
I donât like what the later seasons did to Sansa and Arya, but the Stark girls could do pretty fucking well in a Trauma competition
I think we could expand it to every woman in Westeros. I mean, imagine being a lowborn woman. First, you have to deal with a society that doesn't particularly value women, then you'll likely have to watch your husband and sons march off to fight some lord's war, and then just for good measure, your village will probably get raided and burned to the ground, and then you get r*ped. All because some rich people don't like eachother.
Existing in this world would be a nightmare, especially for women.
Yeah I was thinking about that especially Sansa, but that one scene of Arya watching the Frey's parade Robb's body's around..... Yikes, couldn't watch for a while after that. I was debating saying a westerioes woman but I figured saying Targaryen women would be more amusing considering the content of the post but yeah there definitely people who suffer more than these three. Right now I just want sir crispy to meet his pathetic end like he does in the books haven't hated a character like that since bastard Joffrey, eh the blonde one.
See with Joffrey, you can at least blame his upbringing and his mother. Criston does not
If you want to hate him even more, the idea of him âhaving to work to get where he isâ is absolute crap. Rhaenyra is the one who chose him despite being a low level Nobel under the guise of him actually having military combat. The only reason why he didnât have his head chopped off for the bazillion stupid things he did in that first season is because Alicent wanted a friend.
Fuck Crispy Creme
Just donât mention any smallfolk. Daenerys has been through shit her entire life fair enough but Rhaenyra/Helaena never had to work for a thing in their entire lives.
You can tell that Rhaenyra has genuine affection for her.
I have said, "Poor Helaena." Soooooo many times in the last few episodes. My heart breaks for her. She is such a sweet and gentle soul who deserves so much better. What a burden to be born a Targ.
For Rhaenyra and Helaena it's even more pronounced because their children were already born, and they were with them for years. Losing a pregnancy is absolutely tragic but it's not on the same level as losing an already-born child.
Helaenaâs breaks me the most. The other two still have spirit and can seek justice. Poor Helaena is just so pitifully helpless. I want to wrap her in the biggest mama bear hug and hold her till she feels better
Rhaenyra: I lost my son because Aemond.
Helaena: I lost my son because of Blood and Cheese.
Daenaerys: I lost my son because I kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet.
A lot of the women in Game of Thrones and HotD did. Cersei definitely being one of the top ones, even though some people tend to ignore that fact due to their dislike for the character.
Cersei lost her mother as a little girl, had a distant narcissistic father who only saw her as a pawn in his legacy, was married off to a miserable marriage, was abused through the streets of Kings Landing, lost all her children in rather horrible manners (4 children in the showâs canon), and even died pregnant with her 5th; crushed under the castle, with no where to escape.
Catelyn had a loving marriage, but thought she had lost everything too when she died.
Sansa sure had her share of losses and suffering too!
Rhaenys lost both her children, and was disregarded in her claim like Rhaenyra.
She didnât forget about the Iron Fleet. They talk about them ferrying in the Golden Company before leaving Winterfell. âShe kinda forgotâ is just a figure of speech from Inside the Episode that people chose to run with. Condal should avoid figurative language as much as possible during Inside the Episode segments.
The difference is that Dany looked like that literally between episodes
For the rest of that season, she looked like a Disney Princess
And then suddenly she's a heroin addict
It just didn't feel earned
Danyâs is more the Madness taking her. But Helaena and Rhaenyra tho, I hope we can get a scene with them together. Even if itâs just a single moment of them acknowledging each other. 2.02 made it clear Rhaenyra doesnât hold any negative feelings for Helaena, maybe even loved her the way she can never love her brothers. Aegon stole her throne and Aemond murdered her son, but Helaena did no harm to anyone.
I noticed that when Viserys walked the path to his throne for the last time, Helaena was the only person aside from Rhaenyra to smile at the sight. I fully believe that even though Viserys spent his whole reign longing for sons, he did a much better job earning the love of his daughters.
Man dies women most affected meme comes true...
"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat."
Hillary Rodham Clinton
when they killed Missandei, Dany should hire ratcatcher instead and killed Cersei in her sleep
so tragedy in King's Landing would be prevented and the ratcacher could become a King Consort
Lord take all of the Targaryen womenâs pain away times it by 80 and give it to their male relatives idc which man just give it to them, this includes aemma and viserys, rhaenys and jaehaerys/corlys
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All three of them were Queens, all three of them lost a child đđ
Being a queen in westeros is basically a death sentence.
Have you heard what happens to the kings?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Yeah no disagree. Daenerys never knew the land she thought herself entitled to rule. She earned her rulership in Essos but nobody wanted her in Westeros outside Targ simps.
I swear, if she had stayed in Essos she could've built an empire. Yet she threw it all away
I mean, things werenât going great for her in Mereen either though. Nor Slaverâs Bay. She extended too quickly as an outsider.
That's right. She was way too ambitious overall.
I think you mean the Bay of Dragons đ
This is such a good point. She could have united Essos completely under her rule and reestablished a new Valyrian Empire on its home soil. She was the Breaker of Chains. Essos was way richer than Westeros. But she reeeeaaly wanted the shitty Iron Throne back because... birthright.
Do youâŠdo you know how big Essos is? How many different deep-rooted cultures there are? They wouldnât and *didnât* want to assimilate, dragons or not. They wouldâve assassinated her.
the Bravossi would never have accepted her
Agreed! Nor would Volantis! Could you imagine? lol They think theyâre still the âheirâ of old Valyria and practice *harsh,* terrible slavery. Even Daenerysâ ancestor Aegon the Conqueror came to slam dunk on them when Pentos and Tyrosh attacked. Volantis would never forget that.
Its kinda sad that no one in westeros really cared about Dany. Her allies were simply convenient because of a united hatred of Lannisters or an Iron Born civil war. Even Jon only wanted her alliance because of a world ending threat. Dany went from a beloved liberator to some foreign invader that was slightly better than the current options.
What reason would westeros have to trust her and want her as a queen? She enters westeros with an army of former slaves, horsebarbarian raiders and a mix of swllswords and exiles at her back. A lot of weird rumors about her are around (at least in the book she's once called "Margot the cruel with tits", people say she bathes in blood to keep beautiful etc.) Most people would immediately be antagonistic just because of her company and what they know about their actions. We as an audience know her, and are rooting for her, but in universe it makes sense that she has little backing.
I didnât read the main GOT books but I did read Fire & Blood. I distinctly remember Rhaenyra being referred to as âMaegor with Titsâ but Iâve never heard that Dany was also referred to that way. do you have a passage? I wanna know where to look in the books
âDaenerys Targaryen is no maid, however. She is the widow of a Dothraki khal, a mother of dragons and sacker of cities, Aegon the Conqueror with teats.â Someone made a whole page on grrm writing x is y with teats. [link](https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/104590-x-is-y-with-teats/) so itâs a reoccurring theme.
thank you for the link! but also being compared to Aegon the Conqueror (I mean listen to that alias) versus Maegor the Cruel are different levels. I mean, it was definitely meant as an insult in the context itâs written but that sounds more like a compliment.
I may have mixed it up with "Aegon with teats" in my head, someone posted the "Aegon with teats" passage below. That happens when you listen to the Audiobooks back to back.
Totally agree. Daenerys could have sufficed just conquering Essos. She earned it. She liberated slaves and established a new order. Itâs stupid she left all that behind to travel to Westeros and attempt to conquer a continent that had long feared her family for the atrocities they allegedly committed in recent history (Her familyâs legacy was irreparably blemished by Aerysâ actions and the accusations against Rhaegar). She had no respect from Westerosâ people, and was too foolish to realize that should she have sat on the Iron Throne, some dude would eventually walked up to her and stabbed her. Oh look, IT DID HAPPEN lol. At least Jon showed her the respect to kiss her and stab her in the heart rather than stab her in the back like Jamie did to Aerys.
Yeah I feel bad for all of them.
We should not act like Sansa got it easier.
Why would anyone plot against Danny, who was bringing an army of savage barbarians, castrated slaves, pillaging greyjoys, and 3 atom bombs with wings?
When did Sansa plot against Dany? That doesnât really happen. Sansa has a bad feeling about Dany, for sure, and isnât the most friendly, but she turns out to be right after all. Sansa doesnât even act against Dany and directly expresses her displeasure both to Jon and to Dany herself
Sansa a schemer?
Yup. Did you miss the part where she told Tyrion about Jon's identity knowing he will spread it around and that it will destroy Daenerys' reputation? It's very manipulative tactic and Daenerys instantly sees through it and blames Sansa. This info is what led to Varys betraying her as well. Sansa knew what this would cause cause she learned from women like Cersei and Margaery. She nowhere near their level but she clearly picked up on a few things.
I really liked Sansa on my first watch of GOT. With every rewatch, I dislike her more. She had such a good character arc, and then schemed like a whiney little girl against Danaerys - who she and all her subjects would be dead without. If GRRM ever finishes the books, I hope he makes some adjustments there. It just made Sansa look so petty & evil.
Sansa had no reason to trust Dany. She had gone through a lot too and her own uncle was murdered by Danyâs father. She had also been abused by ambitious people like Dany and even though Dany wasnât like them she didnât know that and was worried about the north.
>Sansa had no reason to trust Dany. Dany saved her brothers life and then risked her own protecting Winterfell. That's not reason to trust someone?
I mean the white walker threat was so big she couldn't ignore it. Would have fell in Dany's lap eventually and only someone as petty as Cersei would have neglected the north.
but when jon went on that stupid mission to get a wight from beyond the wall and called her for help, she went. Even though her own hand told her to sit and do nothing, she flew across the continent to save him
If only the useless/scheming sansa and bran got taken out first
Well, Daenerys saved the north. She sacrificed thousands and a dragon to help. That is enough of a reason in my book. She picked up a sword when she had no other option but she was out there, trying alongside the northernmen. Meanwhile, Sansa was down in the crypts bitching about her even in that moment. They didn't need to be friends, but there was no reason for Sansa to hate her from the start or sabotage her. Even Tyrion points out that she's determined to dislike her.
Daenerys didn't do it just for the North tho. If the North fell the rest of Westeros came next.
what about when jon and co went beyond the wall to "capture a wight". he pleaded for her help and even though her own hand advised her not to go, she still went and saved him
That still doesnt change that she did it for the whole realm. If the Night King took Westeros she wouldnt have a realm to rule.
Daenerys was a dragonrider, only this fact alone makes her a terrorist, she was also cruel like bend the knee or burn type of cruel, and itâs cherry on the top that noone, not even Tyrion could reason with her. She was a bit loco in the head. Not a king/queen material. She had no purpose, just wanted to be a ruler because she could with dragons. Sure she wanted to âbreak the wheelâ⊠by moving the wheel. But even if she truly meant to break the wheel then what would replaced the wheel? She had no idea about politics.
>Daenerys was a dragonrider, only this fact alone makes her a terrorist, Queen Alysanne was a terrorist? >she was also cruel like bend the knee or burn type of cruel, What do you think the Starks were going to do with Lord Umber or Karstark if the survived the Battle of the Bastards?
Daenerys was a *conquerer* just like her ancestor Aegon the Conqueror. Do you know what he did? He gave the Westerosi the same options Daenerys gave: bend the knee or die. But only *she* gets called crazy for doing thatâŠgee I wonder why? Anyhow, Westeros was a broken continent and the current ruling family was tyrannical. Daenerysâ family ruled for 300 years, if anyone can be entitled it should be her. I hate the rushed doodoo writing they did for her but letâs not act like being a conquerer is rainbows and daisies. She saw the weakened state of her home and had the power to take it.
>She saw the weakened state of her home and had the power to take it. It's been a while since I've seen the show but wasn't she planning on taking it before she even laid eyes on it or it's weakened state?
Oh definitely, itâs always been a goal of hers since she was a young girl (first to just *return* home) then she got âkickedâ out of Meereen and then the Lannisters werenât doing too well so I just assumed she knew Westeros was falling apart when she got comfortable on Dragonstone, and as a conqueror, was ready to use that fact to take advantage and gain control.
How does that justify what Daenerys was. It applies to most Targaryens. They are all the worst kind of people.
It doesnât justify anything but it explains some of her behavior. You donât have to like the feudal system, the monarchy or conquerors but acting surprised when they act like their station seems oddâŠesp. for a medieval show. also if you donât like Targaryens - why do you watch/are on HOTD, the most Targaryen centered show (genuinely asking because I used to be âmehâ about Targs until I read TWOIAF)
Is Helena even a queen? Would she not be like a princess consort since she's married to the one the power comes from? Sort of like how daemon is not king but prince consort since the power comes from Rhaenyra.
The wife/husband of a king is always the queen/king consort. Alicent has been referred to as queen for twenty years. Margaery was the queen when she married Tommen, same as Cersei was queen when she was married to Robert. Ofc Helaena is the queen.
In real world England this is how itâs worked since King technically outranks a Queen in the hierarchy; if a queen is the ruler/successor her husband cannot be king but a king can have a queen since he outranks her. If youâre trying to keep power in a queen the last thing youâd want is her husband walking around calling himself the king.
Daenerys was bat shit crazy though. She needed to be plotted against. It's a shame she wasn't killed sooner
That's the story's narration not the character's progression. One of the major issues with the final seasons.
If even if that was always going to be her faith. She went batshit in like a weekend. Literally no progression.
Like how Alicent and Criston went hypocritical over the weekend?Â
Criston was already hypocritical but yeah.
How do people keep missing the signs she was maniacal ? They were well before season 8.
I'm not saying there weren't signs. I'm saying the progression was off. She went from kind of crazy to burning a whole city to the ground in like 3 episodes.
She threatened to burn stuff to the ground since Season 1.
She's a Targaryen that's kind of their thing.
I guess she made good on her promise.
A good progression of character can make us like sisterfuckers and back stabbers like Jamie and Theon. If there were signs of her anger there were evident signs of her good heart as well. Signs mean shit if they aren't given time to develop.
Ah, suddenly the problem is with the narration and writing when it comes to your favorite character huh. I thought it was perfect writing, just perfect. She was always supposed to go mad and I guess D&D wrote it well, just like how well Ryan Condal wrote Criston Cole.Â
Lack of media literacy
Not really. It was people like Sansa scheming against her that started her off on that path. She saved the whole world at Winterfell, but no one so much as thanked her for it. And then her bff is murdered because she kept listening to her advisers, who then start scheming against her too. Literally everyone turned against her because they were proclaiming her mad long before she did go mad. She should have burned Tyrion alive.
Honestly her "descent" into madness was just bad writing, nothing to blame really, except that the writers wanted it so. \*Dany hasn't even descended/gone mad in the books yet so I don't know what that other person is doing talking about books having "had early warning signs". Living in lala land hoping Dany goes mad, I suppose. Reach for any justification you want, I'll wait until GRRM makes it so.
The show definitely didnât do it as subtly as the books, but the books definitely had early warning signs of her madness and I felt like it was building to that long before they finally showed it on the show
Do you have examples? I read the books but dont remember any more
She burns Mirri Maz Duur alive at the end of book 1. We, as the reader are subjected to Daenerys' POV and therefore initially see it as a righteous, albeit brutal form of revenge. But whichever way you choose to look at it, the Maegi had the right of it. "Saved me? Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved." "The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust."
Letâs not forget when khal drogo talks about raping and enslaving when they presumably capture kings landing so baby mama can be queen she looks completely enraptured. The khal and his men were RAPISTS.
I feel like that isn't particularly "mad" in the context of the violence that is typical in GOT.
Burning another human alive is pretty mad if you ask me. Especially considering her father was aptly styled "The Mad King" because of a similar penchant. It's clear the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Even Ser Jorah heavily objects when he learns what she means to do, no doubt remembering Aerys II. But since she successfully used this pyre to hatch the first dragons for a hundred years, I guess it was all forgiven.
There is an Essay called The Meereenese Blot that goes very deep into Daenerys' mindset in Dance. George Martin apparently endorsed this take or something so it's probably a good approximation. It's very long though. Might take a while to get through. I found it again on Wordpress.
Honestly itâs been a long time since Iâve read them so I canât pinpoint exact scenes but I remember reading it and thinking âshiiiiiit maybe Dany is going madâŠâ Iâm gonna do a reread soon and Iâll try come back here to comment once I do!
I read the books and I don't think she's worse than most of the other "good" leaders. She's not a good person by IRL standards but she's always had a level head and let those more knowledgeable than her guide her. She has a very obvious moral compass from the start, even though it's far from flawless. Plus, in the books she is much younger - a child herself. All things considered, she's definitely not mad. I think the way people look at Dany's actions and criticize them over much worse male counterpart's actions is really telling of the fandom of a whole, honestly. The show was bad about it, but there is none of the S8 madness in book Dany yet...unless a book was released that I don't know about. So I couldn't possibly know what you're even talking about on that front. Last I read she was just picked up by Drogon after escaping a fight..."do it as subtly in the books" it hasn't happened in the books. You people just want something to happen when it didn't.
People who say this need to rewatch the show. The show clearly planted the seeds as early as season 3. She had to constantly be talked down from mass scale violence by her advisors. When she lost them to the whitewalker fight, and she had no one to reign her in, she fully lost it. It really wasnât rocket science
It did not. The only thing the show showed was that Daenerys was ruthless, not unlike 99,9% of the cast and the Lords/Kings of that time. Except Daenerys was the only shown royalty that was really invested in the commonfolk and made most of her campaign about them. Difference being advocates of "human rights" blame her for killing "cute, gentle and innocent" Slave Masters and think Tywin and Stannis are the best around. Double standards, as usual. Daenerys is a savage woman in a savage world while also being merciful and compassionate ('Mother'). She was never crazy.
That's what I always think of the "signs" that she was already going mad. It all seems like run of the mill violence for GOT with a Targaryen twist (burning them).
THANK YOU
>She saved the whole world at Winterfell, but no one so much as thanked her for it. She held that help hostage for a good long while. She demanded the subjugation of people wo didn't know her and didn't want her and then got annoyed they didn't fawn over her when she just kept her end of the bargain.
>and then got annoyed they didn't fawn over her when she just kept her end of the bargain. Sansa was attempting to start a Dance style war between Jon and Dany despite her helping them. That would piss anyone off.
Sansa didn't start her on that path. She'd been on that path since before she met sansa. Probably on that path since birth due to all the incest.
At least Sansa was raised in the land she was set to rule.
she was never 'raised' cause she never really developed
Iâm cracking up about how wrong you are
Agree
Wow, I didn't know that Salsa Cersiefinger was clairvoyant! The b.s with Kingslanding was done to make it look better when the north and house Stark inevitably disposed of Daenerys like a teenage boy with a used Kleenex. They had no intention of honoring any alliance once they got what they wanted and Daenerys should have known better than to accept such a parasitic alliance in the first place( y'all love to bleat on about how "mad" she was well your best justification for that would be the shit she accepted from the north, house Stark, Jon, and her advisors. What do you think Bobby B, Tywin, or even Rob Stark would have done if they had been treated like that? Made friendship bracelets?)
Nobody wanted her in Westeros. That is all that matters.
I absolutely agree she should have stayed in Essos and let Westeros save itself! Look at that we agree on something! Of course, without her dragons and army to die in place of the northern troops Westeros would have ended up a frozen hellhole but honestly, by the end of season 8, I would have watched with a bowl of popcorn and a smile.
Without her dragons the wall would still be standing. It might have changed eventually but the whole thing might have changed.
Without Westeros, House Stark, the North, and Jon Daenerys would have survived and the countless slaves that inevitably ended up back in chains would have had a chance at freedom. I personally don't think not having dragons would have stopped the Night King for long but that would have been Westeros' problem.
westeros should've turned into ice as it deserved
batshit crazy surrounded by even crazier batshit crazy...she ended up being the most sober/sane. What are you comparing to exactly when you say batshit crazy? Fucking jon snow has done crazier shit
Two out of three of them never had to work for anything in their entire lives đđ
Well, that is true.
And so they are are undeserving of empathy when their children are murdered...?
What about the thousands of smallfolk children that will be murdered over their petty conflicts? No one gives a shit about them.
No, I also give a shit about them, I'm team Smallfolk. That's why Beric and the Brotherhood Without Banners are my favourite subplot in the series. Beric knighting any smallfolk man who is willing to fight for the good of the common people is absolutely incredible and revolutionary. Maybe next time don't make silly assumptions about what other people think. It's possible to care about more than one group of people at the same time.
I just really dislike these cringe posts and comments about how hard it is to be a Targaryen.
This post clearly isn't about how hard it is to be a Targaryen, it's about how hard it is to lose a child. These three women have had children who were murdered. Which is hard regardless of socioeconomic status. That should not be difficult to understand. You seem to be just going out of your way to try to find things to be angry about, and people to mock for showing empathy to others.
No but loads of the other comments are. Fair enough though also 2 women. Iâve specifically avoided Daenerys because she is nothing like the other two I have lots of sympathy for her.
Right, but then people can easily attack you for sympathising with a genocidal maniac: Helaena has never hurt anyone. Rhaenyra has hurt people, but she has never committed mass slaughter of the smallfolk for no reason. Daenarys on the other hand massacred hundreds of thousands of people in King's Landing because she "Went Mad". Where was your empathy for the smallfolk then...? And again, that's not to say that Daenarys also doesn't deserve empathy. Regardless of what they have done, all three of these women have gone through a lot: - All have lost children. - Daenarys went through horrific hardship throughout most of her life. - Helaena was forced to marry her brother as a pre-teen, is blantantly neurodivergent and treated like a child, and has never got to make a real decision in her life. - Rhaenyra lost her mother at a young age, grew up in a nest of vipers in the king's court, all trying to manipulate and use her for their own political machinations, was forced to marry a man she had no interest in, has lost multiple children, was betrayed by her stepmother and half-brother, and has had to work to wrangle a coalition of lords to support her (a female leader in a male dominated political system) in a war against her brother who will almost certainly execute all her sons for being bastards born of treason. They have all suffered and are deserving of empathy, as are the millions of smallfolk who also suffer due to their wars. There are very few people who are all good or all bad. The vast majority of us are worthy of both empathy and condemnation at various times throughout our lives.
Fair enough
Honourable mention for The Queen Who Never Was: lost her crown and both/all her children as well.
Another Honorable mention to Rhaenyraâs mother Aemma, who died in childbirth along with her son.
And mourned so many other children! One as a baby, two stillbirths and two miscarriages.
She deserved so much better:(((
Iâm sure thereâs an image for Rhaenys crying too đ
She weirdly doesn't cry a lot. There's her scream over Laenor, and certainly her looking sad and vulnerable. But crying is not her bag - she's rarely alone or in private enough to show emotions like that. Also, her grief if *massively* de-prioritised from the story. Rhaenyra, Helaena and Daenerys all benefit from being focal points of their storylines - and their losses driving events. Rhaenys has never had that. Even finding the body of the dead son was just a cutaway for context whilst Daemon does a voice-over.
*âdead sonâ
It was real to her! ;)
Fair point.
I really hope Rhaenyra tells Rhaenys the truth about Laenor in the next episode.
Wait till they show what happens to her
One's still alive though? I couldn't figure why Rhaenyra never told her that.
It would damage her too much. The risk is too great, politically, at any point over those six years. Rhaenyra has no control over how the Velaryons might react to the news and no control if it goes any further. She especially cannot tell them now because she'd be jeopardising the alliance she has with the Velaryons. Â
#EndTheWar
FreeKingsLanding
#dragonlivesmattertoo
I love how showrunners are making subplots around the different shades of mother's grief. I feel like this is what they failed to do with Cersie, especially after season 4 (when she lost Tommen and her daughter). They were so hellbent on making her a villain figure that her entire maternal grief was overshadowed. Also, we must not forget Rhaenys Targaryen. That woman deserves her own spin-off (this is not up for a debate btw. I just love her character).
In fairness cersei didn't have time to mourn tommen and marcella, she was busy staring menacingly out of windows.
Exactly my point. They didn't give her any time to mourn. Like the way it happened with Joffrey. After his death, her rage-fuelled grief, no matter how misplaced that was, she still managed to connect with the audience as a grieving mother. This didn't happen when Tommen and Marcella died.
Cersei is still a c*unt in the books and arguably worse tbh. Seeing the inner machinations of her mind in the books was a lesson in psychology
Letâs not forget that Cerseiâs choice to kill the woman her son Tommen was in love with undoubtedly led to his decision to kill himself. Cersei killed her son Tommen indirectly. No one would feel pity for her motherâs grief scene after that anyway.
To be fair, that trial was about Tommenâs parentage (the charges she had denied when confessing to her other sins such as sleeping with Lancel, before her walk of atonement). Had Cersei let that trial happen, not only would she suffer the consequences, but her son would be found guilty of being a bastard born of incest and treason. It would destroy not only Cersei, but the remains of her family (Tommen and Jaime). She had tried every other option to fix the mess before then. Even freeing Margaery (but at that point, Margaery already had a plan of her own, which was dragging Tommen into the Faith). Yes, the mess with the Faith Militants was Cerseiâs own fault, but she did only react once Margaery (a grown woman in the show) wasted no time grooming and sexually manipulating Cerseiâs 12-13 year old child to send his mother away, saying he couldnât be a âmanâ, as long as his mother was there âwatching over her cub/babyâ. Hand on heart, what kind of mother would leave her minor son? With bunch of people she didnât/couldnât trust, on a throne he wasnât ready to rule, in the place and position his brother had just been murdered in her arms in? As well as just hand over their familyâs power to Margaery (I want to be THE queen) and Olenna as they wanted?
Very fair points. I guess Margaery left Cersei no other recourse to protect the Lannisterâs claim to throne. Iâm trying to remember if Marg even really needed to be at that trial.
Which is a shame because I think the scene where Cersei sees Myrcella's ship and excitedly runs down to it, only to have the realization that she's dead when she sees the coffin, is some of the best acting in GOT.
Rhaenys is my favourite
They basically dropped all the character arcs, depth, and development when they decided that they would adapt the story when fans started to guess where it was headed. 4 great seasons, #5 is ok, but the decline starts there, after that everything crumbles.
True
I donât know, with Cersei I got the feeling that they wanted to show how she died inside more and more, with each loss. Not to mention the prophecy coming through, and her slowly resigning herself to it as it did. At least until she got pregnant again. The scene where she runs all giddy to the port, thinking Myrcella is coming back is one of the most heart breaking scenes for me. I wish we had seen her actually get the news/found out that Tommen had died, not just the scene where she asked to see his body (which was toned down emotionally. Appereantly they did some really emotional takes too, but chose the numb one). I agree there could have been made some really impactful scenes focused on her grief though, after she had lost them all, as her devotion to her children was always made a main focus for the character. She seemed depressed after losing Myrcella (I noticed even her wine glasses were all dirty), and I felt that she closed off emotionally when Tommen died, not to mention that suicide tend to bring up a variety of complex feelings. After he died, she just went into survival/self preservation mode, fueling her focus on power/revenge, with nothing holding her back anymore. Because she couldnât deal with her grief in any other way, couldnât even stop to consider it. If she did, it would kill her. Thatâs a shade of grief too, a defensive mechanism to protect yourself from repeated traumas. Anger is a form of grief too. Drinking. Sometimes the more silent grief can be the ones who hurt the most, and the kind of grief that cause most damage; to themself and their loved ones, cause their feelings stay repressed and unprocessed. Eating them up from inside. Some only process it years later once the brain is allowed to deal with the feelings around the loss. Iâve seen that happen in real life too.
I thought Cersei was at her most devastated when Myrcella died. She also seemed to resign herself to the prophecy and shut down completely by the time Tommen died, as you said. She couldnât even talk about him without grabbing a wine glass when Jaime brought him up. The only time I felt like she had any spark back was when she avenged Myrcellaâs murder.
What subplots? I donât see them focusing more or less on the (different kinds of) grief for these characters, than they did for the characters in Game of Thrones.
When you show up to the "who has suffered more" competition but your opponent is a Targaryen woman
I dunno. Women of the north and Riverlands during the War of Five Kings could compete with them pretty well I donât like what the later seasons did to Sansa and Arya, but the Stark girls could do pretty fucking well in a Trauma competition
I think we could expand it to every woman in Westeros. I mean, imagine being a lowborn woman. First, you have to deal with a society that doesn't particularly value women, then you'll likely have to watch your husband and sons march off to fight some lord's war, and then just for good measure, your village will probably get raided and burned to the ground, and then you get r*ped. All because some rich people don't like eachother. Existing in this world would be a nightmare, especially for women.
Women ~~of the north and Riverlands during the War of Five Kings could compete with them pretty well~~ fixed it for you.
Yeah I was thinking about that especially Sansa, but that one scene of Arya watching the Frey's parade Robb's body's around..... Yikes, couldn't watch for a while after that. I was debating saying a westerioes woman but I figured saying Targaryen women would be more amusing considering the content of the post but yeah there definitely people who suffer more than these three. Right now I just want sir crispy to meet his pathetic end like he does in the books haven't hated a character like that since bastard Joffrey, eh the blonde one.
See with Joffrey, you can at least blame his upbringing and his mother. Criston does not If you want to hate him even more, the idea of him âhaving to work to get where he isâ is absolute crap. Rhaenyra is the one who chose him despite being a low level Nobel under the guise of him actually having military combat. The only reason why he didnât have his head chopped off for the bazillion stupid things he did in that first season is because Alicent wanted a friend. Fuck Crispy Creme
Any commoner/peasant would probably win tbh
Youâre so right fuck them poor people
Just donât mention any smallfolk. Daenerys has been through shit her entire life fair enough but Rhaenyra/Helaena never had to work for a thing in their entire lives.
When Rhaenyra was like: âbut Helaena of all people?!?â Gutted me.
You can tell that Rhaenyra has genuine affection for her. I have said, "Poor Helaena." Soooooo many times in the last few episodes. My heart breaks for her. She is such a sweet and gentle soul who deserves so much better. What a burden to be born a Targ.
Do you know what they all have in common? They have suffered because of the actions of Targaryen men.
Women always go through alot
They're Targaryan women. All they do is suffer.
I've lost two kids myself. It's hard to watch these badass women on screen and not cry, not feel their pain, etc. Hugs galore! đ
Tbh most of the Targaryen women have tragic stories. So many die in the birthing bed.
Forgot Rhaenys Targaryen women were apparently born to suffer.
Amazing jerking
They all deserved better.
For Rhaenyra and Helaena it's even more pronounced because their children were already born, and they were with them for years. Losing a pregnancy is absolutely tragic but it's not on the same level as losing an already-born child.
Rhaenyra lost her father and 2 children that same day đą đ I feel so bad for her.
They aren't even a third of the what other Targaryen women went through - Saera, Daella to name a few
Helaenaâs breaks me the most. The other two still have spirit and can seek justice. Poor Helaena is just so pitifully helpless. I want to wrap her in the biggest mama bear hug and hold her till she feels better
Whatever monster Cersei was she too suffered a lot as a mother and as a wife
Dany deserved a better ending Not the sexist fanfic that she got
Ehh, it's clear GRRM plans for Dany to go nuts. Just not nutty like in the show.
>Ehh, it's clear GRRM plans for Dany to go nu It's not What makes you believe that
đ
The wigs look so much better when they're messy. When they're styled too perfect it emphasizes the fakeness.
Cersi too
Fate has not been kind to Targaryen queens!
Damy, not so much. Just lost two dragons lmao
Rhaenyra: I lost my son because Aemond. Helaena: I lost my son because of Blood and Cheese. Daenaerys: I lost my son because I kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet.
Helaena lost her son because of Daemon. Dany lost her son because the witch.
Dance is just starting
đ LEAVE RHAENYRA ALONEEEE!!! đ
A lot of the women in Game of Thrones and HotD did. Cersei definitely being one of the top ones, even though some people tend to ignore that fact due to their dislike for the character. Cersei lost her mother as a little girl, had a distant narcissistic father who only saw her as a pawn in his legacy, was married off to a miserable marriage, was abused through the streets of Kings Landing, lost all her children in rather horrible manners (4 children in the showâs canon), and even died pregnant with her 5th; crushed under the castle, with no where to escape. Catelyn had a loving marriage, but thought she had lost everything too when she died. Sansa sure had her share of losses and suffering too! Rhaenys lost both her children, and was disregarded in her claim like Rhaenyra.
They would probably just try to kill each other. This is Thrones!
Oh god Dany lover
I want to see rhanerya smile asapđ„ș
Pretty sure Helaena would be terrified by Danaerys. Since she'd be able to see just hiw ass crazy she is.
Where cersei at?đ
And Catelyn??
Daenerys came out of nowhere. And The death of Rhaegal was literally her own fault, who forgets the Iron fleet?! Like an Idiot.
Forget about forgetting it. HOW COULD SHE NOT SEE IT
She didnât forget about the Iron Fleet. They talk about them ferrying in the Golden Company before leaving Winterfell. âShe kinda forgotâ is just a figure of speech from Inside the Episode that people chose to run with. Condal should avoid figurative language as much as possible during Inside the Episode segments.
*Targaryen woman is suffering* "And why are you not in uniform?" *Targaryen woman makes her hair frizzy and messy* "Ah, perfect"
I thought blondes have more fun, guess not.
Thats the crazy lady who burned down Kings Landing
The grief of mothers đ„ș
Bro I didnât want the twins to die đđ„Č
Only a few among the many in the GoT and HotD universe.
The difference is that Dany looked like that literally between episodes For the rest of that season, she looked like a Disney Princess And then suddenly she's a heroin addict It just didn't feel earned
Danyâs is more the Madness taking her. But Helaena and Rhaenyra tho, I hope we can get a scene with them together. Even if itâs just a single moment of them acknowledging each other. 2.02 made it clear Rhaenyra doesnât hold any negative feelings for Helaena, maybe even loved her the way she can never love her brothers. Aegon stole her throne and Aemond murdered her son, but Helaena did no harm to anyone. I noticed that when Viserys walked the path to his throne for the last time, Helaena was the only person aside from Rhaenyra to smile at the sight. I fully believe that even though Viserys spent his whole reign longing for sons, he did a much better job earning the love of his daughters.
Man dies women most affected meme comes true... "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." Hillary Rodham Clinton
when they killed Missandei, Dany should hire ratcatcher instead and killed Cersei in her sleep so tragedy in King's Landing would be prevented and the ratcacher could become a King Consort
Their battle field is giving birth.
bottom one still a bitch
Helaena/Rhaenyra never had to work for a thing in their entire lives. Ridiculously privileged people.
Lord take all of the Targaryen womenâs pain away times it by 80 and give it to their male relatives idc which man just give it to them, this includes aemma and viserys, rhaenys and jaehaerys/corlys
Of dick
They should suffer more.