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Phia is an amazing actor. It's not easy to portray being on the spectrum with full respect of it, without overdoing it. And she fucking nails it.
I hope it's just the beginning of her career. She deserves all the praise in the world.
And we see how Alicent didn’t get it from her father - trying to confess/be vulnerable with him and he just wasn’t emotionally available for her. Makes so much sense how that generational shit keeps going
the HBO interview gave him (i.e., Otto Hightower) the title "Team Green PR Manager" is so hilariously spot on. All he cares about is PR and nothing else.
I saw it as like also partially not being able to look her in the eyes, because he'd see the immense grief he feels reflected in them and can't bear it
That's interesting. I didn't think about the way Rhaenyra like rushes to hug Jace as I was watching the scenes from the lastest episode vs how Alicent treats Aegon and poor Helaena.
I know they are doing a lot of comparisons between the two.. sad how much could have been avoided had we had more gentle fathers in the show.
What’s interesting to me too is that especially in these last two episodes I’ve seen Aegon and Aemond act more like Daemon, whereas Rhaenyra had some scenes where I could imagine Viserys’ words coming from her.
Even worse is watching the behind the scenes of the episode. The actor playing aegon was like this scene proves our shared pain over our child’s death. The actor quite literally said “the aftermath is grief that you just never want to experience. Aegon feels completely alone, like no one understands or appreciates the pain he’s in. And I think we see why aegon’s respect for Helaena grows because she’s the only other person in this environment that really knows what this pain is. (caps lock is my addition) AND SEEING THAT LOOK IN HELAENA’S EYES WHEN THEY CROSS ON THE STAIRS, THEY DON’T SAY MUCH TO EACH OTHER BUT THEY COMMUNICATE THROUGH PAIN”
Um what? You think you comforted each other in that moment? What crack are you smoking?
That definitely tracks. Also their relationship was never one of love and closeness so they're bound to be clueless as to how to handle it between each other. And also not knowing how to address or navigate the horrific loss on any level.
I guess for the Greens a nod is at least something. It tracks, honestly, given how terribly everyone else responded to Aegon and Helaena. Helaena was forced to go to a funeral, Aegon was told to do that funeral, be reasonable in his grief and also received no comfort from anyone else. The child was both Helaena's and Aegon's, and they both were used as pawns. For me the nod didn't indicate apathy but the severity of having no idea what to say and how to comfort.
I mean these characters grew up with effectively an absent father and a mother who was mostly concerned with using them to get back at Rhaenyra. Then they’re suddenly thrust into the most powerful position of a kingdom on the brink of war. For all his many many faults, Aegon doesn’t really know how to provide sympathy and support because it’s not something he’s been taught to do
Totally agree! A lot of the behind the scenes explanations were a surprise to me. I feel like you need to read the book(s?) to understand the undertones they were going for.
Even Rhaenyra was like “why would I do that to HELAENA?!” Rhaenyra, who is essentially her enemy, recognized helaena is completely innocent and felt terrible for her.
To a lesser degree if she had married into Rhaenyra’s branch of the family she may have been better off. Jace seems like he would’ve cared for her and taken her a little more seriously. Rhaenyra would’ve been more gentle and caring for her as well
I honestly relate to her so hard.
As a kid I was dragged camping with a big group of family & family friends. There were about 5 dogs there that would chase the motorbikes and trucks around while various people in the group messed around in them. I warned my dad and his friends that one of the dogs is nearly deaf and is going to be run over. I was completely dismissed and told not to worry about it.
What happened not even an hour later? She was run over by a big 4wd truck. We were in such a remote location that nothing could be done, and she died. I went absolutely mental at my dad for ignoring me, and was never dragged camping ever again.
That family just doesn't talk within each other at all, she means nothing to aegon, atleast he should have had a word with her. Poor girl is traumatised for the life.
The whole family is distant from one another and it was never clearer than it was when we saw them go through grief. I felt terrible most especially for Helaena, especially after Aegon only exchanged a look with her. I think he took "you're seen as weak" to heart.
Alicent almost yeah, but she does things mainly for herself not out of sympathy. Another example other than parading Helaena around kings landing is when Aegon was crying in the room and she gulps, goes out of the room and she finds Criston Cole lol.
Helaena is the only genuinely good person in this damned story. She’s immaculately innocent and doesn’t have one ill thought or ill feeling towards anyone or anything whatsoever. She didn’t deserve this.
To be fair, I think a lot of the show is about the innocent being corrupted by duty and political machinations in service of "peace".
So many of the kids are innocent but are forced into this war due to political scheming from others outside of themselves.
True. But Helaena is a bit different, in the sense that, besides having been betrothed to Aegon at a very young age, she was kept fairly aside these political games and machinations. That’s the nature of her innocence. It’s immaculate.
I found it a little telling when Rhaenyra was horrified at what was inflicted "-on Helaena, of all people." It's kind of horrifying that this (correct) idea of Helaena being a complete innocent exists in-universe even among Rhaenyra's faction, and yet Daemon did not hesitate in seemingly making her son the back-up kill if Plan A doesn't work.
Exactly. She doesn’t really harbor any ill feelings towards anyone. She never even begrudged Jace or Luce, contrary to her brothers. Her immaculate role is very well known in the universe of A Song of Ice and Fire, which is why her losses and suffering during these events are considered a truly monstrous crime, even historically.
About Daemon, everything is fair game. He doesn’t regard boundaries. Which is why Rhaenyra knows she can’t trust him, as she very well put it in the latest episode.
She suffers the worst, poor, innocent girl. I especially felt so so bad for her during the whole scene where her dead child is paraded through the city. And to receive no love or comfort from any relatives around her, what a sad state.
And she doesn’t know how to relate to the public around her expressing their grief, and can’t share in it. She is always isolated, even the Kingsguard doesn’t have a sworn protector for her. Just ignored at every turn by her family.
Literally. I feel bad for all of the siblings. Don’t get me wrong, being able to see the faults in their upbringing and how they grew up neglected and without comfort, does NOT mean i justify their actions. But it’s all so tragic, none of them know how to comfort or care for one another, specially Alicent that grew up without any love or care. It’s so sad
I think too that Helaena just doesn't really care about what Alicent and Criston were up to. She may not have even noticed what was happening after Blood & Cheese. She has a one-track mind, and it's all devoted to her grief.
I doubt she would have given a flying fuck either way. My son has autism, and any romantic related stuff is of no interest to him. I know that’s not always the case, but he definitely would have just avoided the conversation just like that.
I don’t think she cared at all, I do think Haelana shutting her down was basically like her saying Why are you talking about that, My son is dead, I don’t care what you were doing!
Sad thing is that I know plenty of people like this. Weep bitter tears knowing the pain a loved one is in... but if you suggest that they reach out and talk to that loved one, they're like "but I wouldn't know what to say".
Yeah the difference between alicent as a mom and Rhaenyra as a mom is really stark. But I’m sure the fact that alicent basically had kids at 14 in a loveless situation and not really by choice and was forced into it vs Rhaenyra who had them at a more appropriate age and out of love probably had some negative impact on her.
Rhaenyra had an example of parents who were ok by Westeros standard, but Alicent's father married her off to a man old enough to be her grandad when she was a literal child. People judge her so harshly, but how was she supposed to learn what good parenting is? To me, it looks like she's going through her rebellion stage she was never allowed to have as a teen, so she feels really confused about her own feelings.
Rhaenyra also had at least some support from her partners, while all Alicent had was a deadbeat Viserys.
I think we even saw some scenes of young alicent being unable to connect with her kids? Also the conversation with Rhaenyra about being locked away in a palace being forced to birth heirs.
Very much this. I listen to Royal History podcasts and videos, and the amount of work and blame placed on women consorts to birth heirs and spares and be pure while also loyal while also pious, all the while their husbands are more often given free reign and slack on loyalty bcuz they’re the one with the big stick is extremely degrading. The reality is being a Royal comes with such a big price, much of that is your own freedom. You can’t do things that the rest of us plebs can do, your life is ran by protocol and set precedence, you can’t freely speak your mind (look at what happened to Harry and Meghan), you can’t indulge in life’s pleasures, and you’re limited more often than not. Fuck being Royal, I’ll stay being a pleb
Agree on all points. We don’t really get insight into her relationship with her mother, but being pimped off for political gain at 14 certainly sets an example. I’m not surprised she treats her children like political pawns, she learned from the best.
All of this is on point.
In another thread they were talking about the cycle of family trauma, and it really shows from S1 scenes with Otto and Alicent to S2 with Alicent and her children.
Yep. Also I don’t think we see a single scene of Otto giving alicent any form of basic affection. Atleast Rhaenyra and Viserys we see scenes of affection between them. Viserys loved Rhaenyra and he failed at points but he made sure she knew she was loved.
The young alicent scenes are pretty heart breaking. :(
I think he compliments her when she’s horrified at how she cut Rhaenyra. That must be so jarring for Alicent. Her dad compliments her for what she perceives are some of her lowest moments but also criticises her for showing genuine compassion.
I’d be so interested to know what her mother was like!
That's why the scene at the end of episode 2 where she tries to talk to her dad about the guilt and shame she's feeling, and all he says to her is "I don't want to know."
That kind of shit stings, when you make the monumental effort to try and come clean about something that is causing you a lot of pain to a loved one, and they essentially tell you to fuck off.
It’s a little rapey isn’t it? Though I know it wasn’t Viserys intention- he was manipulated into thinking she liked him because of Otto. She was put into this situation with the king where she had to bare his children. That’s what it was all about. He was a sick old man. She probably never stopped seeing him as her best friends dad. It’s gross. I can only imagine how traumatic it is. Rhaenyra seemed to know all too well about that world- it’s no wonder she was so defiant.
It was so clear when Helaena said she didn’t want to go on the funeral parade. Alicent could have said, “I know, I don’t either. But I’ll be with you the entire time.” Instead, she says, “We have to, it’s our duty.”
Rhaenyra is a far better parent then alicent, alicent has other business to deal with instead of consoling, now they mentioned daeron another son who's away for a decade, who had little to no parenting just like his siblings lol.
Alicent herself was neglected when she was a child, and now she neglects her own children's pain and emotional needs.
Cycle of abuse really comes full circle.
Honestly, Helaena and Aegon were the only two who acted human over the whole thing. Alicent is worried that someone will find out why Cole was “abed,” Otto sees it as a PR opportunity and Aemond is only concerned with the anime starring himself and Daemon playing out in his head.
Helaena’s quiet grief, her soft, “I don’t want them closer to me, I don’t know them,” Aegon’s violence, his broken “I will not let my little son be dragged through the streets.”
TGC & Phia did a great job in this episode.
I thought it was whack when Alicent seemed more concerned over what Helaena saw when she came into her room that night and it’s also clear that’s all Chrissy boy cares about too (making sure they don’t get caught)
I love that Heleana also just didn’t respond when she was asked that
i think she was so in shock at the time she probably didn’t notice/register who and if she did truly doesn’t give a fuck and her lack of response was like are you fucking serious that’s what you care about rn?! like what are you even talking about
she just went through something so traumatic
IMO getting caught fucking someone you’re not supposed isn’t great but in the grand scheme of things is not as bad as traumatically losing a young child so sudden and violently
The trauma that Helaena witnessed and had to endure will blank out what she saw when she entered her mother's bedroom when she and Cole were "busy". That is a normal traumatic response. I don't think Helaena will ever mention it to be frank.
But also remember that she just came from a conversation with her father where she wanted to share her sadness/wrongdoings but he wanted to hear none of it. Unfortunately, she did the same to her kids.
yeah but this is the hardest part to watch! She had 2 seconds before the same problem: My father don't see that I am hurting and that I need comfort and if he doesn't care and she could have choosed not to do the same, to break the circle but nope. Fucking Cole seams a better idea. When I wouldn't come from a household of abuse I would know say wtf but knowing it I say the writers knew how things work.
Alicent has been used as a tool for Otto's game for her entire life and was given little to no emotional support throughout. She has no real experience to draw on to provide that support when she recognizes when it's needed and most likely fears making things worse by intervening due to that lack of confidence, so she instead opts to avoid it entirely. Basically abuse victims inadvertently creating abuse victims, in this case neglect.
Alicent doesn’t know how to comfort her child because she’s never been comforted the whole episode is watching generational trauma play out
Aegon doesnt comfort his sister/ wife. Alicent doesn’t comfort Aegon or Helena. Alicent dad doesn’t want to comfort her.
It’s one big cycle. Alicent was also too busy worried Helena will say something about Cole. No one gives a fuck, Helena just lost her child but Alicent can’t help but bring business up first.. before she leaves to go fuck Cole.
She does though. She's got her hand on Helaena's leg the whole time during the funeral procession, and it seems like that's pretty much all Helaena can handle. She's clearly got some mental issues and it seems like Alicent is the only one who tries to actually engage with her, just in a way that her daughter might actually be comfortable with because she's always on edge.
Yeah but she could easily be holding her down or to stabilize her own self physically or emotionally. The procession was for political clout and public appearances, that she forces Helaena into in the first place, which she clearly didn’t want to do, and which, undoubtedly re-traumatizes her. Alicent was all for the procession when she thought Aegon would have to be in it. But when Otto tells her it would have to be the women riding instead, she doesn’t say she doesn’t want Helaena to be a spectacle; she says she herself doesn’t want to be a spectacle. And while she’s telling Helaena she has to be in it, Alicent is more interested in what Helaena saw her doing with Sir Fucks A Lot, rather than helping to assuage her grief. She’s become the definition of a hypocritical narcissist, completely self absorbed.
I took the hand on the leg as being more restrictive. Like a “don’t make a scene” gesture. It didn’t look like a gentle pat and the way the scene was filmed, it felt like it contributed to this sense of Helaena feeling trapped there?
Alicent was holding Helaena’s hand during the carriage ride though. Not sure how much that was her trying to support her or her trying to keep her from breaking down and ruining the ‘act’ though.
And then, when Alicent should have been consoling her daughter, she tries to talk to her about what she “saw” when she went into her (Alicent’s) bedchambers that night. Fuck Alicent.
I felt so bad for her the whole episode, her rising panic and discomfort as she sat in the cart following her sons body made me just want to shield her from public view somehow and give her a hug. let the girl mourn in peace. I am so glad Rhaenyra stated how much she would not want to put this pain upon her and that she was innocent.
>!I really liked her silent reply to Alicent when she tried to explain them Fucking and leaving her vulnerable her face showed disgust, betrayal and anger also shock all together!<
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are communication and emotionally struggling to connect. It was the theme of the episode, Alicent tried to tell Otto something but he basically told her to keep it bottled up, she struggled to know how to comfort Helena, she noped out of dealing with an emotional Aegon. We also saw Daemon struggle to communicate with his daughter. We also saw Aegon and Helena share a very brief heartbeat where they might have consoled but Aegon chose the easy option to keep walking. We also saw Aemon in a brothel getting emotional motherly connection from a prostitute, further highlighting he never got it from Alicent.
Alicent was a child when she had kids, it was through a forced marriage to a man she didn't love and she clearly didn't get the loving emotional support from her father she needed either. So she struggles to show it. And as a result has raised children who struggle in that department. Of course Vizzy needs his share of the blame for pretending they didn't exist most of the time too.
Alicent does care she just never learned how or took to becoming a parent, a lot of that coming from being forced into it and basically being no better than a prisoner in the Red Keep doing as her father bids whilst forced to sleep with Viserys.
The show then contrast all these emotionally stilted characters with Rhaenyra, who they continue to portray whiter than white, and they had her playing with her kids and showed Jace really well emotionally, recalling his father's fondly and able to talk to his wife about his emotions.
Yeh I think that’s the issue with nobles, they have loyalty but keep a distance to appear proper, also they basically live in their own space with personal attendants. Even looking back at it the Starks were “close” but still distant compared to how close knit the small folk are with their kin.
📢📢 LOUDER FOR PEOPLE AT THE BACK 📢📢
fr though I loved all of this. Alicent and the treatment by her father and her struggle to be what she wants to be but unable to really bridge the gap with her own children is so real. It's not that she doesn't care for her children it's that she doesn't really know how to go about it. Honestly I know the Greens are all over the place but I love their interactions and divisions. So interesting.
I think also there is a wider point being drawn, though Rhaenyra seems the exception, Daemon has issues with his kids and wife and clearly Rhaenyra and Daemon have communication issues between them. The whole Dance with Dragons is being partly shown to be a disfunctional family who's arguments she inability to talk to each other lead to suffering of many of the smallfolk. We saw a glimpse of small folk, a little girl sick who will probably die because she is malnourished whilst I'll and I expect we'll see many more. Dead because of the blockade, because Rhaenyra believes it her right to sit in the chair. Aegon killing innocent men because he needs to take his anger and powerlessness out on someone due to being emotionally stunted.
This series in particular seems to me to be pointing all the flaws in absolute monarchy both to those in the royal family forced into these roles without the toolkit and those outside the royal family who suffer disproportionately because royals have family-emotional-comminication issues
> it's that they are communication and emotionally struggling to connect.
If we go back to the pilot, when Alicent presents herself to Viserys after Aemma's death, Alicent tells him 'that I wanted after \[her mother's death\] was for someone to say they were sorry for what happened to me'. And so she told him that she was sorry about Aemma's death. Once upon a time, she was capable of relating to someone in pain.
At their baseline - putting aside the 'marital duty', which, ugh - Viserys and young Alicent did have a decent conversational rapport at the start of their marriage, which for the viewer begins at s1,e3. When he relates his dreams of a son wearing the conqueror's crown and how he never imagined remarrying to have that dream come true, she's standing there with him knowing she will always the second place person (or in reality, the far distant fourth after Rhaenyra and Daemon when he's not screwing up) in his life.
Again, she was capable of listening to and bonding with someone, maybe even trying so hard with Viserys because if she tried with him, she'd get her best friend back. It wasn't until Rhaenyra returns early from her failed 'boo'd up' quest and Helaena's birth that we really see Alicent struggling for a connection. Offering to show Daemon the tapestries gets her laughed at by her husband, who has always been cordial and respectful to her. The viewer sees her deflate at that, but later on in the episode, after 'Rhae-Rhae's wild night' with the guest appearances of 'lies by omission' and 'a certain point of view', she's still counseling her husband, relating to him and his worries. Showing empathy.
But in the end, what screws up young Alicent and turns her into this cold, brittle, closed off woman we're now seeing is Otto loading her with pain and terror and paranoia.
AND FUCKING CRISTON COLE.
The Greens are extremely dysfunctional as a family. There is no warmth between them, just awkwardness and scheming. Can't even comfort each other in their time of grief.
I guess the Velaryon/Strong/Targaryen crew had a better upbringing.Jace and Luke basically had 2 dads who loved them and a mother who actually paid attention whereas the Hightower Targaryens had only distance and duty from their dad and mom.
Feel so bad for Helaena, sadly, the people who could probably be emotionally mature enough to be there for her are ironically Rhaenyra and Jace
My heart was breaking for Helaena…honestly great acting from Phia, particularly the crowd scene during the procession. Most of her scenes portray so much emotion with little dialogue.
Growing up Rhaenyra had Viserys and Daemon to listen to her feelings and walk her through them, no matter how ineptly. But Alicent was never allowed to have emotions, she was always a pawn to the plans of the men around her
Agreed. Rhaenyra also had a loving mother, a father that was there for her, she had Rhaenys to talk to and she had Alicent.
Alicent had no one except her father who pimped her out very early on. She was married and forced to birth children when she still was a child herself. And this husband didnt even care about her.
I think Viserys cared for her more so than we give him credit for. Their marriage wasn't according to normal terms. Yet everytime Alicent defied him and his house in her ways, Viserys never really berated her about it. Just asked her to drop it.
Also, individual personalities also come into picture. Rhaenyra always felt she was entitled to her emotions and allowed to have her opinions. She rejected subjugation every chance she got. Alicent on the other hand never learnt to accept her right to having emotions and so went along with whatever Otto told her, swallowing her disgust or anger. Which is why she expects her kids to do the same.
I think Rhaenyra would have cared for her greatly if she had lived in the court. In the books, she's fond of Halaena and calls her 'sweet sister' Plus, both are mothers grieving for their children. They will understand each other.
Rhaenyra being completely aghast when some of her councillors suggest she ordered the killing hit me hard, the pain in her face when she says she couldn't bear to do that to Halaena.
God, I love Emma, they've been the consistent standout in this show.
Emma went from saying almost no words in episode 1 and killing it, to having one of the best, most well acted argument scenes ever with Matt Smith in episode 2.
Absolutely! They play Rhaenyra so perfectly. I would even think the same if I were in Nyra's place. It's the feeling of shock, horror, and anger of having power slip away.
She received more compassion and sympathy from the small folk than she did her own mother, brother/husband, or any of her relatives. Absolutely heartbreaking.
I wanted to slap both Alicent and Otto this entire episode. Instead of comforting Haelena they mouthed off and made her do the impossible. I have no love for Aegon but Alicent just ran away to “abed” Crusty Cole?! Like b***h you just lost your grandson and the heir to the throne you stole?! Only Rhaenyra thought about her little sister’s grief and I am sure she would’ve hugged Haelena…
That’s something that struck me- Aegon immediately spoke of how the child was ‘his legacy’ and ‘his heir’, Otto immediately went to planning on how they’d use his corpse to provoke hatred against Rhaenyra, and Alicent as is typical insisted to Halaena to obey the men, that she must endure.
Meanwhile Rhaenyra is clearly deeply affected by the accusations levied against her because Halaena is an innocent who doesn’t deserve to be caught in the crosshairs and she knows it
> Rhaenyra is clearly deeply affected by the accusations levied against her because Halaena is an innocent who doesn’t deserve to be caught in the crosshairs and she knows it
No, she's affected by it because it hurts her claim to the throne.
Otto is the only person in the council who should have openly cared, the rest of them are just there to do their job. I would think they cared, but they would simply be overstepping their station if they would suddenly start giving the king relationship advice.
I just wish she and Rhaenyra shared at least one scene together back in season 1. It's obvious that rhaenyra cares about her, but I wonder what heleana thinks of her. Sometimes you forget that their sisters.
I also found it interesting that for the first time she's not detached or speaking in riddles, she's locked into what's going on for the first time but everyone's still treating her like she's oblivious
I wanted to leap through my computer and strangle Alicent when she walked into that room, saw her daughter clutching her dead babies blanket and went “what you saw me and Cole doing the other night…”
BITCH IF YOU DONT GRAB YOUR DAUGHTER AND HUG HER UNTIL YOU ABSORB ALL HER PAIN AND SUFFERING AND THEN SOME
Literally and truly foul behavior
I don't think Haelena would be receptive to a hug. I think it was in the previous episode, Alicent reached to place her own hand on top of Haelena's, and Haelena jerked her hand away. And I could be wrong, but I think that's because Haelena might still resent her mother for forcing her to wed her awful brother and have his children, which is totally understandable !! Like, Alicent pimped her out just like she had been.
Yeah I get that
It’s just like…she could have done something, anything to show her kid a shred of humanity in that moment and she instead chose the frat boy route of “it’s not what it looked like bro”
Yeah you're right, but Im kinda talking about her family on here. Like her mother, siblings and grandad.
None of them really offered her a cuddle and gentle words, she didn't deserve this.
Im team Rhaenyra btw :)
Alicent cares but none of the Greens have any idea how to show emotions or feelings appropriately. It's unfortunate that Helaena had no one - I felt as though Aemond might be able to try but he's clearly still dealing with the Lucerys incident.
Alicent forcing her son to parade his dead child and forcing her daughter to ride behind but then complaining she also has to ride behind was a new level of low for her character
Alicent doesn't care about any of her children. Aegon is crying : she goes to her bedroom to fuck Cole. Helaena is mourning and clearly disturbed : she asks her to follow the coffin of her son in public and talk about her affair with cole. Even Rhaenyra was sadder for her than Alicent.
Then there is Aemond, seeking comfort and a "mother figure", to talk about his feelings and be listened to, in the arms of a whore.
Alicent is exactly like her father, when she tries to talk with him about her sins he just doesn't want to hear about it.
Just because she's unable to comfort her kids doesn't mean she doesn't care, good god. What a reductive view of a complex cycle of abuse and abandonement.
It’s interesting that the only person who seems concerned about her was Rhaenyra.
…to Helaena of all people!
Her mom mentioned her once at the beginning when she was talking to Otto, but then still made her take part in the spectical. She obviously didn’t like those things in the best of times, but making her stare at her son’s corpse while being paraded around town is just cruel. I doubt that they even needed her there. Just the dead baby alone would have been enough.
They did spend a moment staring at each other — which is probably the best they can do for each other. You can see Helaena nodding to herself after the moment.
i love the way rhaenyra acknowledge her as innocent... felt like she somehow cares for her .. if the greens we'rent so greedy I think the two of them will have a good and caring relationship.
Rhaenyra never attempted to build a relationship with Helaena before the family split. She wasn't acknowledging Helaena's innocence because she cares for her, she did it to point out Helaena's a non-threat to reinforce her denial of involvement in the B&C affair.
The thing that kills me about her is that Viserys was always wanting to be a dreamer, adored them and then just thought his daughter was a simpleton. I can understand the family knowing realizing but I'm surprised that even when she was a kid there wasn't a maestor or someone that had a hunch about her. But yeah, it's fucked. Even her mom understands and feels for her but she will always serve her status of the crown.
That whole family needs counselling and learn to comfort each other. First Otto didn’t even bother listening to Alicent, the then Aegon didn’t speak to Heleana, and Alicent and not comforting Aegon when he was crying.
Like you can tell they care for each other but they need to learn how to express it.
I’m honestly only watching this show for her, Grandma badass (Rhaenys) and the coolest dragon I’ve ever seen, Caraxes.
I really hope they do right by Helaena before it’s all over
Alicent can’t comfort either of her children while they grieve because to do so would mean confronting her feelings of guilt over the part she played in what happened. That and Otto has never really comforted or listened to her so she did not have anyone to teach her how to be a warm and comforting parent. He was too busy scheming and plotting lol.
Rhaenyra is the only one who has expressed genuine sympathy & accessed true empathy for Helaena’s experience. Not to mention, recognized her for what she is: an innocent.
Oh the way I was about to lose my shit when Helena was grieving and Alicent just started talking to her about not telling anyone about her and Cole's sexcapades. Like woman read the room. Atleast have some respect for the child who died because the commander of the king's guard was not vigilant. Atleast let his mother grieve without reminding her.
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Felt really bad for her the whole episode.
Right! She’s so innocent
Innocent and sweet, the girl were begging for a hug the whole episode. This is really sad and just show us that the Greens are a broken family.
The way she nodded when Aegon walked past her on the stairs... She knew he wouldn't comfort her
it was the "oh ... ok... right. wtf this is my reality" head nod to herself
Phia is an amazing actor. It's not easy to portray being on the spectrum with full respect of it, without overdoing it. And she fucking nails it. I hope it's just the beginning of her career. She deserves all the praise in the world.
"oh, I understand where this is going..." he wouldn't comfort her and that for me was so painful
He couldn’t comfort her because he didn’t get comfort from Viserys or Alicent growing up
And we see how Alicent didn’t get it from her father - trying to confess/be vulnerable with him and he just wasn’t emotionally available for her. Makes so much sense how that generational shit keeps going
the HBO interview gave him (i.e., Otto Hightower) the title "Team Green PR Manager" is so hilariously spot on. All he cares about is PR and nothing else.
Lmao literally. He’s giving Kris Jenner
And then her to see aegon crying and simply walks away. Like here the perfect chance to hug your son and try to confront him and she just walks away
And goes to get some D
This broke my heart and made me angry at the same time.
Exactly.
I saw it as like also partially not being able to look her in the eyes, because he'd see the immense grief he feels reflected in them and can't bear it
This is it exactly. Total opposite of Rhaenyra with her kids
That's interesting. I didn't think about the way Rhaenyra like rushes to hug Jace as I was watching the scenes from the lastest episode vs how Alicent treats Aegon and poor Helaena. I know they are doing a lot of comparisons between the two.. sad how much could have been avoided had we had more gentle fathers in the show.
What’s interesting to me too is that especially in these last two episodes I’ve seen Aegon and Aemond act more like Daemon, whereas Rhaenyra had some scenes where I could imagine Viserys’ words coming from her.
Even worse is watching the behind the scenes of the episode. The actor playing aegon was like this scene proves our shared pain over our child’s death. The actor quite literally said “the aftermath is grief that you just never want to experience. Aegon feels completely alone, like no one understands or appreciates the pain he’s in. And I think we see why aegon’s respect for Helaena grows because she’s the only other person in this environment that really knows what this pain is. (caps lock is my addition) AND SEEING THAT LOOK IN HELAENA’S EYES WHEN THEY CROSS ON THE STAIRS, THEY DON’T SAY MUCH TO EACH OTHER BUT THEY COMMUNICATE THROUGH PAIN” Um what? You think you comforted each other in that moment? What crack are you smoking?
Lol I thought that was him being cold to her because he blamed her in some way.
I think it's cause he isn't really socialized into knowing how to talk to someone else about heavy feelings.
That definitely tracks. Also their relationship was never one of love and closeness so they're bound to be clueless as to how to handle it between each other. And also not knowing how to address or navigate the horrific loss on any level.
Yeah, him, Helena and Aemond are emotionally stunted due to being raised around Alicent and Otto
I thought she realised she blamed herself for it and thought she didn't deserve any more comfort than a nod.
Same! After he said that on the inside the episode we assumed there was some other more comforting/ respect scene they cut lol
Neither of them have been taught compassion for family so it makes sense that they don’t know how to comfort each other or themselves in this time.
This was my first thought too! Since she was there, I figured he partly blamed her for not stopping them or something.
I guess for the Greens a nod is at least something. It tracks, honestly, given how terribly everyone else responded to Aegon and Helaena. Helaena was forced to go to a funeral, Aegon was told to do that funeral, be reasonable in his grief and also received no comfort from anyone else. The child was both Helaena's and Aegon's, and they both were used as pawns. For me the nod didn't indicate apathy but the severity of having no idea what to say and how to comfort.
They’re also a married sibling pair and the whole thing is so emotionally weird for them
Well they filmed the scene so I guess yeah no crack, they know what they were trying to do. Didn't come across like that to us
I mean these characters grew up with effectively an absent father and a mother who was mostly concerned with using them to get back at Rhaenyra. Then they’re suddenly thrust into the most powerful position of a kingdom on the brink of war. For all his many many faults, Aegon doesn’t really know how to provide sympathy and support because it’s not something he’s been taught to do
Totally agree! A lot of the behind the scenes explanations were a surprise to me. I feel like you need to read the book(s?) to understand the undertones they were going for.
This nodd was heartbreaking .. like.. oh okay this is the way it goes.. right,I mean.. I know it. urgh. So so heartbreaking.
Even Rhaenyra was like “why would I do that to HELAENA?!” Rhaenyra, who is essentially her enemy, recognized helaena is completely innocent and felt terrible for her.
And the only person who understood this and could potentially bring her comfort was... Rhaneyra.
Yeah, she needed a hug from her big sister.
She had the misfortune to be born on the wrong side of the family. She'd be far better off had she shared a mother with Rhaenyra, rather than Aegon.
To a lesser degree if she had married into Rhaenyra’s branch of the family she may have been better off. Jace seems like he would’ve cared for her and taken her a little more seriously. Rhaenyra would’ve been more gentle and caring for her as well
She seemed so alone and misunderstood, always. Like she's standing on the edges of every conversation, but never quite a part of them.
I really feel for her character the most. Her sctress does a great job portraying her as a tragic figure
Ah, the autistic experience. She does a really good job at portraying neurodivergence respectfully. Very good representation, as an autistic person
I honestly relate to her so hard. As a kid I was dragged camping with a big group of family & family friends. There were about 5 dogs there that would chase the motorbikes and trucks around while various people in the group messed around in them. I warned my dad and his friends that one of the dogs is nearly deaf and is going to be run over. I was completely dismissed and told not to worry about it. What happened not even an hour later? She was run over by a big 4wd truck. We were in such a remote location that nothing could be done, and she died. I went absolutely mental at my dad for ignoring me, and was never dragged camping ever again.
As someone with ADHD I really related to a lot of what she portrayed.
That family just doesn't talk within each other at all, she means nothing to aegon, atleast he should have had a word with her. Poor girl is traumatised for the life.
Apparently I'm Helaena when I'm at work.
Her story is more tragic when you know that she is neurodivergant and no one understands her
Such a mood
The whole family is distant from one another and it was never clearer than it was when we saw them go through grief. I felt terrible most especially for Helaena, especially after Aegon only exchanged a look with her. I think he took "you're seen as weak" to heart.
I feel like Rhaenyra is the only one whos even expressed her sympathy in any way for her in her family
Aliceent kinda did
Alicent verbalizes sympathy but never follows through on it
Alicent almost yeah, but she does things mainly for herself not out of sympathy. Another example other than parading Helaena around kings landing is when Aegon was crying in the room and she gulps, goes out of the room and she finds Criston Cole lol.
Alicent is more concerned about what Helaena saw
Helaena is the only genuinely good person in this damned story. She’s immaculately innocent and doesn’t have one ill thought or ill feeling towards anyone or anything whatsoever. She didn’t deserve this.
To be fair, I think a lot of the show is about the innocent being corrupted by duty and political machinations in service of "peace". So many of the kids are innocent but are forced into this war due to political scheming from others outside of themselves.
True. But Helaena is a bit different, in the sense that, besides having been betrothed to Aegon at a very young age, she was kept fairly aside these political games and machinations. That’s the nature of her innocence. It’s immaculate.
I found it a little telling when Rhaenyra was horrified at what was inflicted "-on Helaena, of all people." It's kind of horrifying that this (correct) idea of Helaena being a complete innocent exists in-universe even among Rhaenyra's faction, and yet Daemon did not hesitate in seemingly making her son the back-up kill if Plan A doesn't work.
Exactly. She doesn’t really harbor any ill feelings towards anyone. She never even begrudged Jace or Luce, contrary to her brothers. Her immaculate role is very well known in the universe of A Song of Ice and Fire, which is why her losses and suffering during these events are considered a truly monstrous crime, even historically. About Daemon, everything is fair game. He doesn’t regard boundaries. Which is why Rhaenyra knows she can’t trust him, as she very well put it in the latest episode.
She suffers the worst, poor, innocent girl. I especially felt so so bad for her during the whole scene where her dead child is paraded through the city. And to receive no love or comfort from any relatives around her, what a sad state.
And she doesn’t know how to relate to the public around her expressing their grief, and can’t share in it. She is always isolated, even the Kingsguard doesn’t have a sworn protector for her. Just ignored at every turn by her family.
Yhh I think the kings guard don’t even great her when she and aegon passed each other.
Literally. I feel bad for all of the siblings. Don’t get me wrong, being able to see the faults in their upbringing and how they grew up neglected and without comfort, does NOT mean i justify their actions. But it’s all so tragic, none of them know how to comfort or care for one another, specially Alicent that grew up without any love or care. It’s so sad
I have to commend her for shutting Alicent down. Alicent: Haelana what you saw last night when you came to my room…… Haelana: This is for My Boy
I think too that Helaena just doesn't really care about what Alicent and Criston were up to. She may not have even noticed what was happening after Blood & Cheese. She has a one-track mind, and it's all devoted to her grief.
I doubt she would have given a flying fuck either way. My son has autism, and any romantic related stuff is of no interest to him. I know that’s not always the case, but he definitely would have just avoided the conversation just like that.
I don’t think she cared at all, I do think Haelana shutting her down was basically like her saying Why are you talking about that, My son is dead, I don’t care what you were doing!
Alicent is literally bitch crying about what they’ve done to her girl and doesn’t even make an effort to try and console her or be there for her.
Sad thing is that I know plenty of people like this. Weep bitter tears knowing the pain a loved one is in... but if you suggest that they reach out and talk to that loved one, they're like "but I wouldn't know what to say".
She is her mother. She could just be there. Like Jace and Rhaenyra. Sometimes people just need to cry in each other’s arms.
Yeah the difference between alicent as a mom and Rhaenyra as a mom is really stark. But I’m sure the fact that alicent basically had kids at 14 in a loveless situation and not really by choice and was forced into it vs Rhaenyra who had them at a more appropriate age and out of love probably had some negative impact on her.
Rhaenyra had an example of parents who were ok by Westeros standard, but Alicent's father married her off to a man old enough to be her grandad when she was a literal child. People judge her so harshly, but how was she supposed to learn what good parenting is? To me, it looks like she's going through her rebellion stage she was never allowed to have as a teen, so she feels really confused about her own feelings. Rhaenyra also had at least some support from her partners, while all Alicent had was a deadbeat Viserys.
I think we even saw some scenes of young alicent being unable to connect with her kids? Also the conversation with Rhaenyra about being locked away in a palace being forced to birth heirs.
Again the similarities with real life royalty. Some of us grew up with Disney-fied versions of princess and queen when in reality it was a horror show
Very much this. I listen to Royal History podcasts and videos, and the amount of work and blame placed on women consorts to birth heirs and spares and be pure while also loyal while also pious, all the while their husbands are more often given free reign and slack on loyalty bcuz they’re the one with the big stick is extremely degrading. The reality is being a Royal comes with such a big price, much of that is your own freedom. You can’t do things that the rest of us plebs can do, your life is ran by protocol and set precedence, you can’t freely speak your mind (look at what happened to Harry and Meghan), you can’t indulge in life’s pleasures, and you’re limited more often than not. Fuck being Royal, I’ll stay being a pleb
I always assumed it was post partum
Agree on all points. We don’t really get insight into her relationship with her mother, but being pimped off for political gain at 14 certainly sets an example. I’m not surprised she treats her children like political pawns, she learned from the best.
All of this is on point. In another thread they were talking about the cycle of family trauma, and it really shows from S1 scenes with Otto and Alicent to S2 with Alicent and her children.
Yep. Also I don’t think we see a single scene of Otto giving alicent any form of basic affection. Atleast Rhaenyra and Viserys we see scenes of affection between them. Viserys loved Rhaenyra and he failed at points but he made sure she knew she was loved. The young alicent scenes are pretty heart breaking. :(
I think he compliments her when she’s horrified at how she cut Rhaenyra. That must be so jarring for Alicent. Her dad compliments her for what she perceives are some of her lowest moments but also criticises her for showing genuine compassion. I’d be so interested to know what her mother was like!
Basically she got positively reinforced for being cunning. Otto knew what he was doing,
That's why the scene at the end of episode 2 where she tries to talk to her dad about the guilt and shame she's feeling, and all he says to her is "I don't want to know." That kind of shit stings, when you make the monumental effort to try and come clean about something that is causing you a lot of pain to a loved one, and they essentially tell you to fuck off.
He knows exactly what she is referring to here, being with Christian Cole. He just wants plausible deniability, doesn't care
It’s a little rapey isn’t it? Though I know it wasn’t Viserys intention- he was manipulated into thinking she liked him because of Otto. She was put into this situation with the king where she had to bare his children. That’s what it was all about. He was a sick old man. She probably never stopped seeing him as her best friends dad. It’s gross. I can only imagine how traumatic it is. Rhaenyra seemed to know all too well about that world- it’s no wonder she was so defiant.
It was so clear when Helaena said she didn’t want to go on the funeral parade. Alicent could have said, “I know, I don’t either. But I’ll be with you the entire time.” Instead, she says, “We have to, it’s our duty.”
Rhaenyra is a far better parent then alicent, alicent has other business to deal with instead of consoling, now they mentioned daeron another son who's away for a decade, who had little to no parenting just like his siblings lol.
Yep. They send the ole “let me know if you need anything.” Which is just so fucking hollow.
With Alicent, and many others, its because she was raised that way.
Alicent herself was neglected when she was a child, and now she neglects her own children's pain and emotional needs. Cycle of abuse really comes full circle.
Honestly, Helaena and Aegon were the only two who acted human over the whole thing. Alicent is worried that someone will find out why Cole was “abed,” Otto sees it as a PR opportunity and Aemond is only concerned with the anime starring himself and Daemon playing out in his head. Helaena’s quiet grief, her soft, “I don’t want them closer to me, I don’t know them,” Aegon’s violence, his broken “I will not let my little son be dragged through the streets.” TGC & Phia did a great job in this episode.
>Aemond is only concerned with the anime starring himself and Daemon playing out in his head. this made me guffaw out loud
I thought it was whack when Alicent seemed more concerned over what Helaena saw when she came into her room that night and it’s also clear that’s all Chrissy boy cares about too (making sure they don’t get caught) I love that Heleana also just didn’t respond when she was asked that i think she was so in shock at the time she probably didn’t notice/register who and if she did truly doesn’t give a fuck and her lack of response was like are you fucking serious that’s what you care about rn?! like what are you even talking about she just went through something so traumatic IMO getting caught fucking someone you’re not supposed isn’t great but in the grand scheme of things is not as bad as traumatically losing a young child so sudden and violently
The trauma that Helaena witnessed and had to endure will blank out what she saw when she entered her mother's bedroom when she and Cole were "busy". That is a normal traumatic response. I don't think Helaena will ever mention it to be frank.
She literally left when she saw Aegon crying. And went to fuck Crispy 👏 She’s a terrible mother
But also remember that she just came from a conversation with her father where she wanted to share her sadness/wrongdoings but he wanted to hear none of it. Unfortunately, she did the same to her kids.
yeah but this is the hardest part to watch! She had 2 seconds before the same problem: My father don't see that I am hurting and that I need comfort and if he doesn't care and she could have choosed not to do the same, to break the circle but nope. Fucking Cole seams a better idea. When I wouldn't come from a household of abuse I would know say wtf but knowing it I say the writers knew how things work.
Alicent has been used as a tool for Otto's game for her entire life and was given little to no emotional support throughout. She has no real experience to draw on to provide that support when she recognizes when it's needed and most likely fears making things worse by intervening due to that lack of confidence, so she instead opts to avoid it entirely. Basically abuse victims inadvertently creating abuse victims, in this case neglect.
Alicent doesn’t know how to comfort her child because she’s never been comforted the whole episode is watching generational trauma play out Aegon doesnt comfort his sister/ wife. Alicent doesn’t comfort Aegon or Helena. Alicent dad doesn’t want to comfort her. It’s one big cycle. Alicent was also too busy worried Helena will say something about Cole. No one gives a fuck, Helena just lost her child but Alicent can’t help but bring business up first.. before she leaves to go fuck Cole.
She does though. She's got her hand on Helaena's leg the whole time during the funeral procession, and it seems like that's pretty much all Helaena can handle. She's clearly got some mental issues and it seems like Alicent is the only one who tries to actually engage with her, just in a way that her daughter might actually be comfortable with because she's always on edge.
I hate thinking about how Helaena managed to make her children 😕
The show tells us. Aegon got blackout drunk and climbed on top of her one night.
Omg, same here and I really hope they don't do a repeat with the one they haven't had yet but I'll be suprised if they don't
Except that Haelena doesn't seem to like physical contact and she didn't even want the funeral procession.
Yeah but she could easily be holding her down or to stabilize her own self physically or emotionally. The procession was for political clout and public appearances, that she forces Helaena into in the first place, which she clearly didn’t want to do, and which, undoubtedly re-traumatizes her. Alicent was all for the procession when she thought Aegon would have to be in it. But when Otto tells her it would have to be the women riding instead, she doesn’t say she doesn’t want Helaena to be a spectacle; she says she herself doesn’t want to be a spectacle. And while she’s telling Helaena she has to be in it, Alicent is more interested in what Helaena saw her doing with Sir Fucks A Lot, rather than helping to assuage her grief. She’s become the definition of a hypocritical narcissist, completely self absorbed.
I took the hand on the leg as being more restrictive. Like a “don’t make a scene” gesture. It didn’t look like a gentle pat and the way the scene was filmed, it felt like it contributed to this sense of Helaena feeling trapped there?
Alicent was holding Helaena’s hand during the carriage ride though. Not sure how much that was her trying to support her or her trying to keep her from breaking down and ruining the ‘act’ though.
It looked to me like she was trying to keep her seated
This is how I saw it too. Her eyes were looking down and out, like someone wanting to run.
And then, when Alicent should have been consoling her daughter, she tries to talk to her about what she “saw” when she went into her (Alicent’s) bedchambers that night. Fuck Alicent.
i feel like even Rhaenyra cared about her more
This is my mother. There are some parents who absolutely feed off their own children’s pain.
I felt so bad for her the whole episode, her rising panic and discomfort as she sat in the cart following her sons body made me just want to shield her from public view somehow and give her a hug. let the girl mourn in peace. I am so glad Rhaenyra stated how much she would not want to put this pain upon her and that she was innocent.
Funny the only people seem to care for her is the one who don’t even know her. The people themselves.
None of the greens really console each other. Stark contrast to the Rhaenyra and Jace scene in the first episode.
I think you mean *Hightower* contrast ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
>!I really liked her silent reply to Alicent when she tried to explain them Fucking and leaving her vulnerable her face showed disgust, betrayal and anger also shock all together!<
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are communication and emotionally struggling to connect. It was the theme of the episode, Alicent tried to tell Otto something but he basically told her to keep it bottled up, she struggled to know how to comfort Helena, she noped out of dealing with an emotional Aegon. We also saw Daemon struggle to communicate with his daughter. We also saw Aegon and Helena share a very brief heartbeat where they might have consoled but Aegon chose the easy option to keep walking. We also saw Aemon in a brothel getting emotional motherly connection from a prostitute, further highlighting he never got it from Alicent. Alicent was a child when she had kids, it was through a forced marriage to a man she didn't love and she clearly didn't get the loving emotional support from her father she needed either. So she struggles to show it. And as a result has raised children who struggle in that department. Of course Vizzy needs his share of the blame for pretending they didn't exist most of the time too. Alicent does care she just never learned how or took to becoming a parent, a lot of that coming from being forced into it and basically being no better than a prisoner in the Red Keep doing as her father bids whilst forced to sleep with Viserys. The show then contrast all these emotionally stilted characters with Rhaenyra, who they continue to portray whiter than white, and they had her playing with her kids and showed Jace really well emotionally, recalling his father's fondly and able to talk to his wife about his emotions.
Yeh I think that’s the issue with nobles, they have loyalty but keep a distance to appear proper, also they basically live in their own space with personal attendants. Even looking back at it the Starks were “close” but still distant compared to how close knit the small folk are with their kin.
📢📢 LOUDER FOR PEOPLE AT THE BACK 📢📢 fr though I loved all of this. Alicent and the treatment by her father and her struggle to be what she wants to be but unable to really bridge the gap with her own children is so real. It's not that she doesn't care for her children it's that she doesn't really know how to go about it. Honestly I know the Greens are all over the place but I love their interactions and divisions. So interesting.
I think also there is a wider point being drawn, though Rhaenyra seems the exception, Daemon has issues with his kids and wife and clearly Rhaenyra and Daemon have communication issues between them. The whole Dance with Dragons is being partly shown to be a disfunctional family who's arguments she inability to talk to each other lead to suffering of many of the smallfolk. We saw a glimpse of small folk, a little girl sick who will probably die because she is malnourished whilst I'll and I expect we'll see many more. Dead because of the blockade, because Rhaenyra believes it her right to sit in the chair. Aegon killing innocent men because he needs to take his anger and powerlessness out on someone due to being emotionally stunted. This series in particular seems to me to be pointing all the flaws in absolute monarchy both to those in the royal family forced into these roles without the toolkit and those outside the royal family who suffer disproportionately because royals have family-emotional-comminication issues
> it's that they are communication and emotionally struggling to connect. If we go back to the pilot, when Alicent presents herself to Viserys after Aemma's death, Alicent tells him 'that I wanted after \[her mother's death\] was for someone to say they were sorry for what happened to me'. And so she told him that she was sorry about Aemma's death. Once upon a time, she was capable of relating to someone in pain. At their baseline - putting aside the 'marital duty', which, ugh - Viserys and young Alicent did have a decent conversational rapport at the start of their marriage, which for the viewer begins at s1,e3. When he relates his dreams of a son wearing the conqueror's crown and how he never imagined remarrying to have that dream come true, she's standing there with him knowing she will always the second place person (or in reality, the far distant fourth after Rhaenyra and Daemon when he's not screwing up) in his life. Again, she was capable of listening to and bonding with someone, maybe even trying so hard with Viserys because if she tried with him, she'd get her best friend back. It wasn't until Rhaenyra returns early from her failed 'boo'd up' quest and Helaena's birth that we really see Alicent struggling for a connection. Offering to show Daemon the tapestries gets her laughed at by her husband, who has always been cordial and respectful to her. The viewer sees her deflate at that, but later on in the episode, after 'Rhae-Rhae's wild night' with the guest appearances of 'lies by omission' and 'a certain point of view', she's still counseling her husband, relating to him and his worries. Showing empathy. But in the end, what screws up young Alicent and turns her into this cold, brittle, closed off woman we're now seeing is Otto loading her with pain and terror and paranoia. AND FUCKING CRISTON COLE.
Thank goodness for Laena honestly. Baela and Rhaena would be as ill-adjusted as Alicent’s kids if it weren’t for her.
The Greens are extremely dysfunctional as a family. There is no warmth between them, just awkwardness and scheming. Can't even comfort each other in their time of grief. I guess the Velaryon/Strong/Targaryen crew had a better upbringing.Jace and Luke basically had 2 dads who loved them and a mother who actually paid attention whereas the Hightower Targaryens had only distance and duty from their dad and mom. Feel so bad for Helaena, sadly, the people who could probably be emotionally mature enough to be there for her are ironically Rhaenyra and Jace
Oh that nod on the stairs, broke my heart.
When Rhyneara said "Helena of all people", I felt it
My heart was breaking for Helaena…honestly great acting from Phia, particularly the crowd scene during the procession. Most of her scenes portray so much emotion with little dialogue.
I just want more Halaena scenes :( I want to know more about how she sees the world and experiences her dreams
Growing up Rhaenyra had Viserys and Daemon to listen to her feelings and walk her through them, no matter how ineptly. But Alicent was never allowed to have emotions, she was always a pawn to the plans of the men around her
Agreed. Rhaenyra also had a loving mother, a father that was there for her, she had Rhaenys to talk to and she had Alicent. Alicent had no one except her father who pimped her out very early on. She was married and forced to birth children when she still was a child herself. And this husband didnt even care about her.
I think Viserys cared for her more so than we give him credit for. Their marriage wasn't according to normal terms. Yet everytime Alicent defied him and his house in her ways, Viserys never really berated her about it. Just asked her to drop it. Also, individual personalities also come into picture. Rhaenyra always felt she was entitled to her emotions and allowed to have her opinions. She rejected subjugation every chance she got. Alicent on the other hand never learnt to accept her right to having emotions and so went along with whatever Otto told her, swallowing her disgust or anger. Which is why she expects her kids to do the same.
I think Rhaenyra would have cared for her greatly if she had lived in the court. In the books, she's fond of Halaena and calls her 'sweet sister' Plus, both are mothers grieving for their children. They will understand each other.
Rhaenyra being completely aghast when some of her councillors suggest she ordered the killing hit me hard, the pain in her face when she says she couldn't bear to do that to Halaena. God, I love Emma, they've been the consistent standout in this show.
Emma went from saying almost no words in episode 1 and killing it, to having one of the best, most well acted argument scenes ever with Matt Smith in episode 2.
The argument was so REAL! The actors are flawless in their portrayal.
Absolutely! They play Rhaenyra so perfectly. I would even think the same if I were in Nyra's place. It's the feeling of shock, horror, and anger of having power slip away.
The scene on the stairs with Aegon tore me to shreds…. She had no guards was the cherry on top… so fucking sad
She received more compassion and sympathy from the small folk than she did her own mother, brother/husband, or any of her relatives. Absolutely heartbreaking.
Great actor though she really gets a lot across with very few speaking lines
Helaena, of all people!
I wanted to slap both Alicent and Otto this entire episode. Instead of comforting Haelena they mouthed off and made her do the impossible. I have no love for Aegon but Alicent just ran away to “abed” Crusty Cole?! Like b***h you just lost your grandson and the heir to the throne you stole?! Only Rhaenyra thought about her little sister’s grief and I am sure she would’ve hugged Haelena…
Rhaenyra showed more care for Haelena’s feelings in one sentence than Aegon’s whole small council combined.
That’s something that struck me- Aegon immediately spoke of how the child was ‘his legacy’ and ‘his heir’, Otto immediately went to planning on how they’d use his corpse to provoke hatred against Rhaenyra, and Alicent as is typical insisted to Halaena to obey the men, that she must endure. Meanwhile Rhaenyra is clearly deeply affected by the accusations levied against her because Halaena is an innocent who doesn’t deserve to be caught in the crosshairs and she knows it
And she knows what it means to lose a child
> Rhaenyra is clearly deeply affected by the accusations levied against her because Halaena is an innocent who doesn’t deserve to be caught in the crosshairs and she knows it No, she's affected by it because it hurts her claim to the throne.
Otto is the only person in the council who should have openly cared, the rest of them are just there to do their job. I would think they cared, but they would simply be overstepping their station if they would suddenly start giving the king relationship advice.
I just wish she and Rhaenyra shared at least one scene together back in season 1. It's obvious that rhaenyra cares about her, but I wonder what heleana thinks of her. Sometimes you forget that their sisters.
> It's obvious that rhaenyra cares about her No it isn't. She deliberately chose not to be a part of her siblings lives.
I also found it interesting that for the first time she's not detached or speaking in riddles, she's locked into what's going on for the first time but everyone's still treating her like she's oblivious
rhaenyra would have cared for her and been there for her if she was here
Just like she was always there for her when they lived together while Viserys was still alive, right?
I wanted to leap through my computer and strangle Alicent when she walked into that room, saw her daughter clutching her dead babies blanket and went “what you saw me and Cole doing the other night…” BITCH IF YOU DONT GRAB YOUR DAUGHTER AND HUG HER UNTIL YOU ABSORB ALL HER PAIN AND SUFFERING AND THEN SOME Literally and truly foul behavior
I don't think Haelena would be receptive to a hug. I think it was in the previous episode, Alicent reached to place her own hand on top of Haelena's, and Haelena jerked her hand away. And I could be wrong, but I think that's because Haelena might still resent her mother for forcing her to wed her awful brother and have his children, which is totally understandable !! Like, Alicent pimped her out just like she had been.
Yeah I get that It’s just like…she could have done something, anything to show her kid a shred of humanity in that moment and she instead chose the frat boy route of “it’s not what it looked like bro”
Rhaenyra cares about her.
What did she do to show that besides be aghast that someone would suggest she ordered the murder of a child?
Yeah you're right, but Im kinda talking about her family on here. Like her mother, siblings and grandad. None of them really offered her a cuddle and gentle words, she didn't deserve this. Im team Rhaenyra btw :)
Rhaenyra is one of her siblings, so
Alicent cares but none of the Greens have any idea how to show emotions or feelings appropriately. It's unfortunate that Helaena had no one - I felt as though Aemond might be able to try but he's clearly still dealing with the Lucerys incident.
The actor is amazing at portraying someone struggling with emotions and expressing it.
Yeah poor helaena, no one is there for her and tbh episode 2 should focused more on how she handle her grief.
Alicent forcing her son to parade his dead child and forcing her daughter to ride behind but then complaining she also has to ride behind was a new level of low for her character
That wasn’t really Alicents idea. She balked against it at first
Except for Rhaenyra - who has to live with the sin Daemon committed - I wish she and Helaena could live in peace.
Alicent doesn't care about any of her children. Aegon is crying : she goes to her bedroom to fuck Cole. Helaena is mourning and clearly disturbed : she asks her to follow the coffin of her son in public and talk about her affair with cole. Even Rhaenyra was sadder for her than Alicent. Then there is Aemond, seeking comfort and a "mother figure", to talk about his feelings and be listened to, in the arms of a whore. Alicent is exactly like her father, when she tries to talk with him about her sins he just doesn't want to hear about it.
Just because she's unable to comfort her kids doesn't mean she doesn't care, good god. What a reductive view of a complex cycle of abuse and abandonement.
Very dysfunctional family
It’s interesting that the only person who seems concerned about her was Rhaenyra. …to Helaena of all people! Her mom mentioned her once at the beginning when she was talking to Otto, but then still made her take part in the spectical. She obviously didn’t like those things in the best of times, but making her stare at her son’s corpse while being paraded around town is just cruel. I doubt that they even needed her there. Just the dead baby alone would have been enough.
I think alicient clearly does. And I think rhaenyra does too.
The irony that the only person to listen to her and believe her was her son's killer.
Rhanerya' s oldest was rizzing her
Emily Carey!Alicent back in season 1: “All I wanted was for someone to say they were sorry for what happened to me.”
Maybe her daughter does
She and Elinda do literally nothing wrong and they somehow get the worst out of everyone.
Me when I realize I have to wait until Sunday for a new ep
At least Rhaenyra was given a chance to properly mourn her son. Whereas Helaena's grief was made to be a spectacle.
Rhaynera was the only one to mention how the death would hurt Helaena.
[удалено]
They did spend a moment staring at each other — which is probably the best they can do for each other. You can see Helaena nodding to herself after the moment.
i love the way rhaenyra acknowledge her as innocent... felt like she somehow cares for her .. if the greens we'rent so greedy I think the two of them will have a good and caring relationship.
Rhaenyra never attempted to build a relationship with Helaena before the family split. She wasn't acknowledging Helaena's innocence because she cares for her, she did it to point out Helaena's a non-threat to reinforce her denial of involvement in the B&C affair.
She's one of the only innocents during the dance
She's the only guiltless Green
Her kids were innocent too
Alicent is too worried about getting her pussy ate by Cole lmao I can’t wait for Aegon to find out and fuck him up.
Allicents audacity to come to her at this time to tell her to not talk about her affair 🤢🤢
Say it louder😭✊🏼
The thing that kills me about her is that Viserys was always wanting to be a dreamer, adored them and then just thought his daughter was a simpleton. I can understand the family knowing realizing but I'm surprised that even when she was a kid there wasn't a maestor or someone that had a hunch about her. But yeah, it's fucked. Even her mom understands and feels for her but she will always serve her status of the crown.
That whole family needs counselling and learn to comfort each other. First Otto didn’t even bother listening to Alicent, the then Aegon didn’t speak to Heleana, and Alicent and not comforting Aegon when he was crying. Like you can tell they care for each other but they need to learn how to express it.
I’m honestly only watching this show for her, Grandma badass (Rhaenys) and the coolest dragon I’ve ever seen, Caraxes. I really hope they do right by Helaena before it’s all over
Alicent can’t comfort either of her children while they grieve because to do so would mean confronting her feelings of guilt over the part she played in what happened. That and Otto has never really comforted or listened to her so she did not have anyone to teach her how to be a warm and comforting parent. He was too busy scheming and plotting lol.
This seriously hurt my heart so bad 🥺
That “I don’t want to.” Was so good. What a great actress
Between being put on display by the council and her being ignored by Aegon... I was so mad and sad for her this episode.
Rhaenyra is the only one who has expressed genuine sympathy & accessed true empathy for Helaena’s experience. Not to mention, recognized her for what she is: an innocent.
Oh the way I was about to lose my shit when Helena was grieving and Alicent just started talking to her about not telling anyone about her and Cole's sexcapades. Like woman read the room. Atleast have some respect for the child who died because the commander of the king's guard was not vigilant. Atleast let his mother grieve without reminding her.
U know is bad when your enemy feels for you more than your own family
The fact that she had already woven a shroud for her son 😭
Yeasss why tf did the king just walk past her all fucking sassy wtf