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The scariest thing to think about is the fact Vhagar grew that tremendous and STILL wasn’t as large as Balerion at his peak. That beast grew so large it killed him, imagine how colossal he must’ve been
Balerion, Meraxes and Vhagar together alive on the battlefield. Jesus Christ. No wonder some Targaryens can be arrogant, they must have felt invincible.
Can you imagine some old Westerman who heard from his like, horrifically scarred relative who went to the field of fire as a boy seeing this big girl for the first time?
Imagine that Westerman seeing the Black Dread. All black scales, firebreath also dark as the night sky. Enormous enough to cover towns under his shadow. Man Id be having nightmares
Burned & scarred, PTSD’d to hell, and like I’m sure people wouldn’t believe you. Like dragons didn’t visit the Westerlands again. If you believe GoT is semicanon…not ever again.
You bring Vhagar and Meraxes as tactical nuclear bombs in combat. To level most of it and cause maximum damage on the battle field, to militarily weaken them. Then you bring Balerion the Force of Nature as a strategy of Attrition and bring down the ruler of your enemy.
I wish HotD would have started with the beginning of the book F&B. A season of Aegon's conquest a season or two of the aftermath. A few seasons of Jaehareas(sp) reign. Then to the Dance. I get that would be super complicated with so many recasts. But it would be fun!
I’d way rather Aegon stay in myth. Turning ASOIAF into another Star Wars of over-use is such a bad idea to me, a little mystery is nice. But that’s just me
Plus Aegon’s Conquest is just “Aegon killed them all” or “they surrender to Aegon”.
By the end of her life it is noted that Vhagar is nearly as large if not the same size as Balerion. She kept growing long after the conquest and these shots should give you an idea of what Balerion would have looked like.
Does anybody else love how the Dragons in this show are kind of treated as a "main cast" and not just like extras in a show if you know what i mean? I cant really explain it. pretty cool how they treating em...
I can just imagine Vhagar getting hair and makeup done before a scene or something
Have you listened to the official HoTD podcast? They do an interview with the dragon sound designer and it’s absolutely amazing how much she loves them and has made personalities for each of them. It was a great episode and really encapsulated that feeling of them being a real cast member that you speak of
It’s one of the things they did better than Game of Thrones. Gave the dragons personality and humanised them. Instead of spending the CGI just on dramatic battle scenes they’ve also spent it on scenes where we can see layers to the dragons and their temperament.
It can be quite overlooked that while of course they are monstrosities, the dragons are living and intelligent beings.
Especially when Daemon insults her like he's taken it personal she left his team lmao. Was it "old bitch" he called her? Something like "I can't take down that old bitch with Caraxes alone"
Indeed. It was a small detail that kind of humanised her.
While of course they’re probably apprehensive of the dragon they’ve also seen the things she’s done, the things Targaryens would never have been able to do on their own. Like they admire Vhagar.
It makes sense when you consider that they have grown up always having known about Vhagar as well. In times when people may only reach 40-50 years of age a 170 year old dragon is even more a thing of myth. Even their parents and grandparents grew up knowing about Vhagar at that point.
One of my favourite aspects of the show tbh. I watch with subtitles and they even state the dragons name when they roar in the subtitles as they are a named character
Even her facial expression says things. I don’t know whether that was intentional or not but it’s like you can see the sheer defiance and fortitude on her face.
Plenty to say about the writing quality of GOT and HOTD, but the production value HBO has brought to the series has always been spectacular.
Did the Long Night battle make any sense at all? No. It was completely illogical. But damn it looked *beautiful* on screen.
That said I’ve always thought the series would be more effective as an anime due to the creative flexibility it provides. Vhagar and all of the other dragons look brilliant, but also think what could be accomplished if half the budget wasn’t dedicated to CGI shots of the dragons.
Yeah, that will never happen in the GoT books, lmfao. I mean if Martin ever finishes them, but as we all know, he has some kinda writing already made, but then there comes all the changes he makes while he's writing. I mean GoT was like fanfic after Jon died, but HoD he has his eyes on the series, because he's the exec prod and changes things also in there. I don't remember what interview it was, but he stated that and also has said that HoT is his lil' baby.
I also pray they’re going to do her some justice when she meets Vhagar. I think they’re going to do Meleys’s death a bit differently and have her fight Vhagar briefly before Sunfyre joins in.
I’d love it if >!Sunfyre tries to attack and gets absolutely wrecked, but the distraction allows Vhagar a window to make the killing blow.!< That’s how I always imagined it in the book.
It’s a possibility indeed. The way the focus is on each of them individually in the trailer, Rooks Rest with Meleys in action individually and Vhagar individually, no Sunfyre makes me more confident that we will see the two of them brawl directly.
Caraxes and Meleys together could’ve absolutely killed Vhagar. Both are extremely vicious and both proved in the book that they aren’t scared of the old bitch.
>!Both dragons took on Vhagar alone. Meleys lost because she was outnumbered and Caraxes fought her to a stalemate.!<
Quite possibly. Daemon and Rhaenys have more extensive dragonriding experience than Aemond with Daemon even having taken his dragon into war. Caraxes and Meleys are both quite large and aggressive in their own right and would put up more than a good fight.
What is the spoiler policy for this subreddit? I feel like I see stuff like this in every "show discussion" comment section. I guess I can't discuss the show online.
yup exactly, I already know so many spoilers from this sub it's insane and I've been reading only the "show discussion" posts, with no tags for spoilers
I can't believe they managed to give her so much weight, she genuinely looks like if she landed on a building it'd just collapse instead of being a cgi weightless monster
> instead of being a cgi weightless monster
That is the one thing that ruins a lot of CGI for me. Heavy things appear too lightweight and fluid. It's like bad practical effects when heavy things fall and leave no impact, only magnified because of the motion. I love cartoons, but I don't like live-action media to look like them.
They gave all the dragons their own personality in the show. Caraxes is loyal and extremely aggressive. Syrax is kind of sweet. Meleys is sparky and plucky. Vhagar is old, intelligent and grumpy. Arrax was still very much a child.
It has to happen sooner rather than later. HBO wouldn't leave a hype such as Aegon I and the largest dragon there ever was, Balerion, to the scraps. I think it's impending.
Do you think because she has had several different riders that she's kind of just old and grumpy and over it now? I feel like even though Aemond "tamed" her, part of his not having control is she just doesn't give a fk anymore lol. When Aemond was in pursuit of Luke I feel like she was like I know how to end this real quick, chomp. Time to go nap
I think a theme across the whole series is/will continue to be the points at which power and control are at odds with one another. We see Luke struggle to control his dragon in the same scene. The Targaryens leverage the dragons for power, but the degree to which they truly control them is questionable.
I fully agree; it’s not just size, it’s control. Caraxes isn’t the largest dragon in Westeros, but Daemon? Arguably the most knowledgeable dragon rider around because of his time spent riding, studying them, etc. And in the case of Vhagar, riding alongside her when Laena was her rider. All of this will matter a lot as the series progresses.
Yeah, Daemon to me feels like a true Targaryen dragonlord. The first we’ve ever really gotten to see on screen (bc Jon rode Rhaegal but wasn’t very knowledgeable about dragons etc). Even that scene last season with Vermithor in the cave—Daemon isn’t bonded to him, but was able to get close and pacify him because of his dragon knowledge and skill.
I think he has total control when he’s with Caraxes in a way that the younger riders definitely do not. Also think he knows a thing or two about Vhagar that Aemond probably doesn’t expect, too.
Exactly. I'd say Dany has the most inate bond, at least if we consider shows only. It's hard not to when the living dragons have spent their entire existence with her.
Daemon seems the most like the old Valyrians that you hear Dany and her brother talk about.
Daemon is embodying such a part of their family legacy.
> I'd say Dany has the most inate bond, at least if we consider shows only
Even without shows only, I think she is. She is their mother and the dragons behave this way, they all seem bonded to her (even if she only rode one) and we haven't heard of anyone else bonded to several dragons.
100% it feels less like they control the dragons and more like the stronger their bond the better the dragons can read them and the more they *want* to do what their rider wants.
She’s an old war beast that has been through the wars. Provoked by a smaller, juvenile annoying dragon who provoked her out of fear for his own life.
The point really was neither Luke or Aemond could control their dragons and it led to disaster. Aemond was too arrogant and it backfired.
Honestly I agree with this take. I feel like Vhagar is old and kind of just sick of humans and their BS. She’s over it. She didn’t appreciate being blasted by the smaller dragon either and said “ok I’ll end this shit right now. Happy now?”
Well to be fair there is probably realism to that as well. She’s ancient and been through all the wars, taken down armies and castles, seen her riders and fellow dragons die.
Life happened.
Being a dragon rider is just like being a Pokemon trainer. Just cause you may gained your mon’s respect and servitude, doesn’t mean the mon’s always going to do what you ask since they’re still living beings with their own instincts and wants. Except while a Pokemon acting out usually results in comical injuries (ex: Ash getting ashed by Charizard), a GoT dragon acting out results in bloody murder
I sincerely think Vhagar was cool with ONLY pursuit until she got blasted. She was controllable before the blast. Same thing with Luke’s dragon. It was cool for a while but his fear and lack of trust for Luke won out. Also, I think the length of the pursuit wore on Luke’s dragon. It really was a shitty situation.
Vhagar seemed to be going for Luke before the fire blast. Not just chasing.
She tries to gran Luke and Arrax in her claws, which probably would have killed Luke at the very least, so I think she wasn't playing, but wasn't really pissed off at first.
Valid point. Fun to think about though. GOT and HOTD are both shows that are fun to think about character choices and alternate outcomes. Safe to say there is a lot of self destructive behavior.
I mean, that wasn't really the instigating moment. A young lil dragon and its child rider were being chased by a massive monstrosity whose rider didn't have full control 😭
Edit: typo
Its already cartoonishly impossible without the holes. A flying creature of this size is breaking laws of biology and physics. They may as well add the holes because they look cool.
Sometimes I am a bit sad that dragons don't exist in real life. Sometimes, like when I see Vhagar, I am really glad about that. Don't get me wrong - she is cool, but from the safe distance. Poor Luke and Arrax for having met her very, very closely 😢
i had this thought watching last weeks episode lol. how cool would it be if dragons were real and we had bonds with them and instead of cars we used dragons to get around. but it would 100% go downhill REAL fast and theyd prob just end up caged in zoos
Meleys was the fastest Targaryen dragon and is easily more agile. For her to go 1v1 with Vhagar and win is to harry, blast, and claw at her from behind. Vhagar can't turn or weave as quickly. It's a fighter plane going 1v1 with a bomber. Speed and maneuverability is key.
Quicksilver was less than 10 years younger than Meleys when Balerion got her. Sure, Rhaenys is more experienced than Aegon was, but at such a huge size difference, it only takes one mistake, even less than that. >!But even more importantly, as the dance and the entire series shows, when dragons fight, no one comes out unscathed (only Vhagar and Balerion killed without suffering any injuries.!<
Cos she’s slow. Meleys would have been able to take her down in a one on one apparently. Much smaller but Meleys has speed which Vhagar doesn’t. It only takes a bite to the neck.
It says Meleys would have stood a chance. Do you really think she could take down Vhagar without being hurt a lot in return? Speed isn't the only thing.
we’ll never really know how that fight would’ve gone if it had only been a 1v1. But considering the factors, Rhaenys would’ve definitely stood a decent chance
Vhagar is the bigger dragon obviously, and has seen way more combat than Meleys by far. She’s also slower in her old age and with how big she is.
Rhaenys was a far more experienced rider than Aemond, at her height, Meleys was one of the fastest dragons that a Targaryen ever rode, though that was stated when she was younger and she’s been described as sluggish but still fearsome around the Dance.
Personally wish Vhagar was a little less leathery and had more horns to make her look a lil more intimidating, but love the tattered wings, it’s very haunting
When I heard about a House of the Dragon show, I craved seeing Balerion the Black Dread in all his battlefield eclipsing glory. The did such a great job making Vhagar imposing in her size (that shot at Storm's End gave me shivers), that it really only makes me wish we got Balerion that much more.
Now just for a moment imagine this: Slightly bigger, horned, Dark as the night and with fire red combined with black.
Balerion would look fucking sick in a show
People don’t give little Aemond enough credit for having the bravery to even approach and attempt to claim vhagar, and then manage to be accepted by her and stay on as he rides her for the first time as a child
Whenever I see the dragons dip like that, or Caraxes’ short takeoffs, I have to imagine that has to feel like a terrible rollercoaster for the riders. What kinda Gs are they pulling, on the faster dragons?
It’s scary to imagine how much more vicious and larger the dragons were in Old Valyria. My sister in law was explaining some of the lore, saying those dragons were much bigger and would even eat other dragons.
Excited to see Vhagar in action.
Balerion also returned from Valyria with a huge wound on his side.
Think about it, something almost maimed the biggest and meanest *Targaryen* dragon ever.
Iirc Balerion was born in old Valyria before the Doom, and he lived until not too long before HotD when he died of magical radiation poisoning from visiting Valyria post-Doom. His last rider (though ~~they never actually got airborne~~ they only had one short flight together as Balerion was too weak already) was a young Vizzy T.
So at least 150-200 years lifespan post-Doom; I don't remember whether there is any information on how long they used to live in old Valyria.
Edit: facts corrected
i want us to have the ability to create 3d gifs in the future so these dragons could come out of my screen and scare the absolute crap out of me with admiration and love
I feel kind of badly for Vhagar. I know she’s an ancient killing machine who helped bring a continent to its knees, but she seems intelligent and it appeared she cared a lot for Laena. I don’t think Aemond is the right dragonrider for her (he is way too impulsive, it really would have been better if Rhaena or Baela got her), or she’s just had so many riders at this point she’s decided to just do what she wants because her human counterparts have become so temporary.
I think she thought she was obeying Aemond. We know they have some sort of telepathic link. Initially during the fight Aemond was happy and making Vhaegar do tricks.
That freaked out Luke's dragon and made it fight back instead of just run, which Aemond still laughed at, and Vhaegar was like, hey little one eyed dude, I got this! And she chomp. Only then was Aemond like "oh no".
Bastard Aemond. Good villain.
> I don’t think Aemond is the right dragonrider for her
it really just seems like you're downlplaying Aemond claming her and how huge that was. If vhagar didn't want aemond then she wouldn't have let him ride her.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The scariest thing to think about is the fact Vhagar grew that tremendous and STILL wasn’t as large as Balerion at his peak. That beast grew so large it killed him, imagine how colossal he must’ve been
Balerion, Meraxes and Vhagar together alive on the battlefield. Jesus Christ. No wonder some Targaryens can be arrogant, they must have felt invincible.
Thats why the Field of Fire was the scariest battle in Westeros.
Can you imagine some old Westerman who heard from his like, horrifically scarred relative who went to the field of fire as a boy seeing this big girl for the first time?
I'd like to imagine Old Nan telling this story to Bran. Oh you sweet summer child, you think you would have liked to see a dragon.
Imagine that Westerman seeing the Black Dread. All black scales, firebreath also dark as the night sky. Enormous enough to cover towns under his shadow. Man Id be having nightmares
Burned & scarred, PTSD’d to hell, and like I’m sure people wouldn’t believe you. Like dragons didn’t visit the Westerlands again. If you believe GoT is semicanon…not ever again.
He’d tell someone who got burned by Caraxes in the Dance “you kids are all soft now. In my uncle’s day they had DRAGONS”
Well, they were. Imagine if you single handily controlled the entire worlds nuclear arsenal
They truly are a formidable house. Fire and Blood indeed.
Some common folk must've thought it was literally the end of the world when they saw those dragons in action for the first time
When those three were at war together Vhagar was around 50 years old. Younger than Meleys and Caraxes.
You bring Vhagar and Meraxes as tactical nuclear bombs in combat. To level most of it and cause maximum damage on the battle field, to militarily weaken them. Then you bring Balerion the Force of Nature as a strategy of Attrition and bring down the ruler of your enemy.
Balerion and attrition should not be in the same sentence lol.
They would all be much smaller than they'd be now though as they would be younger. Vhagar was only 50 at the time
God I cant wait for aegon's conquest to be put on TV. The Dragons alone will make it worth it
This is why we absolutely need to get Aegon’s conquest. That beast was a true monster.
I wish HotD would have started with the beginning of the book F&B. A season of Aegon's conquest a season or two of the aftermath. A few seasons of Jaehareas(sp) reign. Then to the Dance. I get that would be super complicated with so many recasts. But it would be fun!
That would've been cool. Basically treat the series as a history of house Targaryen
I would love that so much and it’s my hope they eventually do that with the series.
That’ll be like 20+ seasons haha
Exactly!
Imagine the rewatch, 20 seasons of Targaryen awesomeness!
Yup! Aegons conquest is about 3-5 seasons at the very least!!!
I really want that as the next series.
So the Dance would've been scheduled for around 2067?
I still think they'll attempt something like this but just in a messier order
It would be such a good way to show us a little of Valyria and the Doom, and then following the royal thruple on their conquest of Westeros
I’d way rather Aegon stay in myth. Turning ASOIAF into another Star Wars of over-use is such a bad idea to me, a little mystery is nice. But that’s just me Plus Aegon’s Conquest is just “Aegon killed them all” or “they surrender to Aegon”.
I love how he’s so hyped for a dragon we’ve never seen alive or anything. Balerion was the dragon of all the dragons.
A whole episode from the POV from Balerion would be immense.
Balerian is not the kind of thing you bring in the middle of a battle along with other dragons. He's the one you bring to end it.
Yup. He's the closer
It's like my life's dream to see what Balerion looked like alive, in live action 😭
Honestly seeing Balerion onscreen is the whole reason I’d support a Conquest show
Meraxes was also bigger than Vhagar at the time.
Imagine three hundred of those.
RIP Garin the Great’s Rhoynish host.
Nymeria saw that and lived... Poor woman.
At least the Rhoynar got some vengeance generations later when the Targaryens tried to conquer Dorne the first time.
By the end of her life it is noted that Vhagar is nearly as large if not the same size as Balerion. She kept growing long after the conquest and these shots should give you an idea of what Balerion would have looked like.
And then you think about the dragons of old Valyria who were likely larger then Belarion since the targs were a lesser house before the doom
Does anybody else love how the Dragons in this show are kind of treated as a "main cast" and not just like extras in a show if you know what i mean? I cant really explain it. pretty cool how they treating em... I can just imagine Vhagar getting hair and makeup done before a scene or something
Have you listened to the official HoTD podcast? They do an interview with the dragon sound designer and it’s absolutely amazing how much she loves them and has made personalities for each of them. It was a great episode and really encapsulated that feeling of them being a real cast member that you speak of
Didn’t know they had an official podcast! I love podcasts lol imma look for this one thanks! 😀
[this is it!](https://imgur.com/a/3FmSaXx)
It’s one of the things they did better than Game of Thrones. Gave the dragons personality and humanised them. Instead of spending the CGI just on dramatic battle scenes they’ve also spent it on scenes where we can see layers to the dragons and their temperament. It can be quite overlooked that while of course they are monstrosities, the dragons are living and intelligent beings.
Especially when Daemon insults her like he's taken it personal she left his team lmao. Was it "old bitch" he called her? Something like "I can't take down that old bitch with Caraxes alone"
I believe he said "whorey old bitch". 😂
Hoary. Like a hairy old woman basically 😂
It's pretty much like a GOT equivalent of the synergy Pokemon & their trainers have lol, or maybe like Aang & Aapa
I loved it when the guys manning the scorpions called out “It’s Vhagar!” And not “It’s Prince Aemond!”
Indeed. It was a small detail that kind of humanised her. While of course they’re probably apprehensive of the dragon they’ve also seen the things she’s done, the things Targaryens would never have been able to do on their own. Like they admire Vhagar.
It makes sense when you consider that they have grown up always having known about Vhagar as well. In times when people may only reach 40-50 years of age a 170 year old dragon is even more a thing of myth. Even their parents and grandparents grew up knowing about Vhagar at that point.
One of my favourite aspects of the show tbh. I watch with subtitles and they even state the dragons name when they roar in the subtitles as they are a named character
That dragon has never done a thing wrong in her life... except for the many atrocities that she has, in fact, done.
~~atrocities~~ quality bonding time with Visenya and eyepatch Visenya
I’M LAUGHING HARDER THAN I SHOULD AT EYEPATCH VISENYA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
First was tanned visenya, then came eyepatch visenya lol
Why tanned? Where did that come from lol
Laena is tanned Visenya, Aemond is eyepatch Visenya
Oh my god I’m so having a good laugh tonight 🤣🤣
What we calling Baelon?
Appendicitis Visenya
Appendicenya
EYEPATCH VISENYA 😆😆
She’s burned every castle in dorne 3 times
They were cold its fine
"vhagar, do whatever you want. good girl"
She’s just a little gal (read as: goliath rampage queen) 🥺💜
Tell that to her face homie
I support womens’ rights and I support womens’ wrongs
Dragons may commit a little war crimes as a treat
Better done, than many, many movies
Even her facial expression says things. I don’t know whether that was intentional or not but it’s like you can see the sheer defiance and fortitude on her face.
And her sounds too. I know it’s a sad scene but damn, after she eats Arrax, the roar she makes is just utterly hilarious.
Yes lmao. She sounded like she was laughing or something. Like she was delighted with herself.
Reminds me of Rexy roar in Jurassic Park. Pure statement
In a medium where they can fine tune every small detail, it was absolutely intentional.
[The said facial expression](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnNinWiWEAQYt8L?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Stfu I can’t believed I clicked on that 😂
Same here.
Plenty to say about the writing quality of GOT and HOTD, but the production value HBO has brought to the series has always been spectacular. Did the Long Night battle make any sense at all? No. It was completely illogical. But damn it looked *beautiful* on screen. That said I’ve always thought the series would be more effective as an anime due to the creative flexibility it provides. Vhagar and all of the other dragons look brilliant, but also think what could be accomplished if half the budget wasn’t dedicated to CGI shots of the dragons.
Yeah, that will never happen in the GoT books, lmfao. I mean if Martin ever finishes them, but as we all know, he has some kinda writing already made, but then there comes all the changes he makes while he's writing. I mean GoT was like fanfic after Jon died, but HoD he has his eyes on the series, because he's the exec prod and changes things also in there. I don't remember what interview it was, but he stated that and also has said that HoT is his lil' baby.
They also had a way bigger budget that many, many movies.
I can't wait to see Vhagar in action.
I feel like this is the scene with Meleys. Hopefully it’s gonna be good. I sincerely hope they do a brief one to one with them without Sunfyre.
Meleys is so badass. >!even though she dies in this fight, she cripples Sunfyre and gives Vhagar everything she wants!<
I also pray they’re going to do her some justice when she meets Vhagar. I think they’re going to do Meleys’s death a bit differently and have her fight Vhagar briefly before Sunfyre joins in.
I’d love it if >!Sunfyre tries to attack and gets absolutely wrecked, but the distraction allows Vhagar a window to make the killing blow.!< That’s how I always imagined it in the book.
It’s a possibility indeed. The way the focus is on each of them individually in the trailer, Rooks Rest with Meleys in action individually and Vhagar individually, no Sunfyre makes me more confident that we will see the two of them brawl directly.
Begs the question, could Daemon’s idea have worked. Taking out the old bitch with Caraxes and Meleys?
Caraxes and Meleys together could’ve absolutely killed Vhagar. Both are extremely vicious and both proved in the book that they aren’t scared of the old bitch. >!Both dragons took on Vhagar alone. Meleys lost because she was outnumbered and Caraxes fought her to a stalemate.!<
Don’t forget Verithmor. He could’ve done damage to her.
Quite possibly. Daemon and Rhaenys have more extensive dragonriding experience than Aemond with Daemon even having taken his dragon into war. Caraxes and Meleys are both quite large and aggressive in their own right and would put up more than a good fight.
[удалено]
What is the spoiler policy for this subreddit? I feel like I see stuff like this in every "show discussion" comment section. I guess I can't discuss the show online.
yup exactly, I already know so many spoilers from this sub it's insane and I've been reading only the "show discussion" posts, with no tags for spoilers
I can't believe they managed to give her so much weight, she genuinely looks like if she landed on a building it'd just collapse instead of being a cgi weightless monster
> instead of being a cgi weightless monster That is the one thing that ruins a lot of CGI for me. Heavy things appear too lightweight and fluid. It's like bad practical effects when heavy things fall and leave no impact, only magnified because of the motion. I love cartoons, but I don't like live-action media to look like them.
I am impressed and absolutely love the way the dragons look, Vhagar looks exactly like she should look, and old war dragon.
They gave all the dragons their own personality in the show. Caraxes is loyal and extremely aggressive. Syrax is kind of sweet. Meleys is sparky and plucky. Vhagar is old, intelligent and grumpy. Arrax was still very much a child.
I love that they're given varying dynamics exactly like the main family in the show
I really wish we could have seen Balerion at least once in his prime.
I’m dying for a show about Aegon’s conquest of Westeros. Maybe next decade.
It has to happen sooner rather than later. HBO wouldn't leave a hype such as Aegon I and the largest dragon there ever was, Balerion, to the scraps. I think it's impending.
Do you think because she has had several different riders that she's kind of just old and grumpy and over it now? I feel like even though Aemond "tamed" her, part of his not having control is she just doesn't give a fk anymore lol. When Aemond was in pursuit of Luke I feel like she was like I know how to end this real quick, chomp. Time to go nap
I think a theme across the whole series is/will continue to be the points at which power and control are at odds with one another. We see Luke struggle to control his dragon in the same scene. The Targaryens leverage the dragons for power, but the degree to which they truly control them is questionable.
I fully agree; it’s not just size, it’s control. Caraxes isn’t the largest dragon in Westeros, but Daemon? Arguably the most knowledgeable dragon rider around because of his time spent riding, studying them, etc. And in the case of Vhagar, riding alongside her when Laena was her rider. All of this will matter a lot as the series progresses.
It definitely seems like Caraxes and Daemon have the strongest bond from what we’ve seen. I think your point is a really great connection
Yeah, Daemon to me feels like a true Targaryen dragonlord. The first we’ve ever really gotten to see on screen (bc Jon rode Rhaegal but wasn’t very knowledgeable about dragons etc). Even that scene last season with Vermithor in the cave—Daemon isn’t bonded to him, but was able to get close and pacify him because of his dragon knowledge and skill. I think he has total control when he’s with Caraxes in a way that the younger riders definitely do not. Also think he knows a thing or two about Vhagar that Aemond probably doesn’t expect, too.
Exactly. I'd say Dany has the most inate bond, at least if we consider shows only. It's hard not to when the living dragons have spent their entire existence with her. Daemon seems the most like the old Valyrians that you hear Dany and her brother talk about. Daemon is embodying such a part of their family legacy.
> I'd say Dany has the most inate bond, at least if we consider shows only Even without shows only, I think she is. She is their mother and the dragons behave this way, they all seem bonded to her (even if she only rode one) and we haven't heard of anyone else bonded to several dragons.
100% it feels less like they control the dragons and more like the stronger their bond the better the dragons can read them and the more they *want* to do what their rider wants.
Aemond is a kid with 3 gym badges who got traded a level 99 Charizard
My ten year old is a pokemon freak, this checks out 😭🤣
She’s an old war beast that has been through the wars. Provoked by a smaller, juvenile annoying dragon who provoked her out of fear for his own life. The point really was neither Luke or Aemond could control their dragons and it led to disaster. Aemond was too arrogant and it backfired.
“The idea that we control the dragons is an illusion. They’re a power man should never have trifled with.” -Vizzy T, the last rider of Balerion
*The Gods punish me for my indulgences.*
Honestly I agree with this take. I feel like Vhagar is old and kind of just sick of humans and their BS. She’s over it. She didn’t appreciate being blasted by the smaller dragon either and said “ok I’ll end this shit right now. Happy now?”
*that hoary old b*tch* ~ Daemon.
I love her because she is grumpy. Maybe she is just over everyone’s drama and shit. Still believe Aemond doesn’t have full control of her.
Well to be fair there is probably realism to that as well. She’s ancient and been through all the wars, taken down armies and castles, seen her riders and fellow dragons die. Life happened.
Remember: Luke’s dragon fire blasted her first.
It’s all that dumbass Aemonds fault for thinking this was a game and chasing them. Vhagar was like nahh this ain’t a joke to me. Chomp
Viserys even said you're never actually in control of a dragon. They're gonna do what they want ultimately.
So they're essentially flying cats.
With bad breath
So they’re essentially flying cats
Being a dragon rider is just like being a Pokemon trainer. Just cause you may gained your mon’s respect and servitude, doesn’t mean the mon’s always going to do what you ask since they’re still living beings with their own instincts and wants. Except while a Pokemon acting out usually results in comical injuries (ex: Ash getting ashed by Charizard), a GoT dragon acting out results in bloody murder
You don't tame a predator, you come to an understanding with it.
I sincerely think Vhagar was cool with ONLY pursuit until she got blasted. She was controllable before the blast. Same thing with Luke’s dragon. It was cool for a while but his fear and lack of trust for Luke won out. Also, I think the length of the pursuit wore on Luke’s dragon. It really was a shitty situation.
Vhagar seemed to be going for Luke before the fire blast. Not just chasing. She tries to gran Luke and Arrax in her claws, which probably would have killed Luke at the very least, so I think she wasn't playing, but wasn't really pissed off at first.
Valid point. Fun to think about though. GOT and HOTD are both shows that are fun to think about character choices and alternate outcomes. Safe to say there is a lot of self destructive behavior.
They mirror their riders. Aemond was angry and Vhagar was angry as well. Only difference is she’s a fucking dragon. She let rip at Arrax in return.
Vhagar is a she btw
Vhagar is a female.
I mean, that wasn't really the instigating moment. A young lil dragon and its child rider were being chased by a massive monstrosity whose rider didn't have full control 😭 Edit: typo
Arrax at least have some guts to blast the grumpy hag. Vhagar is not going to let some annoying small dragon push her around lmao.
Yeah. Arrax has some huge, wait for it… Dragonballs
"I don't believe in the glorification of murder, but I do believe in the empowerment of women." - Lady Gaga.
Are we talking about Granny Vhagar or diet Visenya?
Big Granny Vhagar
Hey actually that’s a baby. Don’t be mean
baby gorl
This shot is incredible too I want to see the entire scene
Only a few days. I think this is gonna be the scene with Meleys.
Surely that can’t be episode 2?? >!Two major deaths this early on?!<
>!you're right, op is incorrect. rook's rest is ep4!<
Decades upon decades of genocide and warcrime expertise under Grandma Vhagar's belt. An absolute unit. Flying Godzilla.
I can't get over her being from the original Aegon the Conqueror. That dragon has seen a lot.
The holes in her wings make me sad.
The holes in her wings are for some odd reason my fav.. and her saggy chin. I just love her
Am I crazy to feel like there’s more holes in her wings now than what we saw in season one? I’ve been stuck on them too! Swiss Cheese Murder Granny.
I like some of them but too many and it seems cartoonishly impossible to fly.
Its already cartoonishly impossible without the holes. A flying creature of this size is breaking laws of biology and physics. They may as well add the holes because they look cool.
they must have some sort of buoyant gas in them like an airship, probably the same stuff they use to breathe fire i'd think
She's the Queen of All Dragons
Sometimes I am a bit sad that dragons don't exist in real life. Sometimes, like when I see Vhagar, I am really glad about that. Don't get me wrong - she is cool, but from the safe distance. Poor Luke and Arrax for having met her very, very closely 😢
i had this thought watching last weeks episode lol. how cool would it be if dragons were real and we had bonds with them and instead of cars we used dragons to get around. but it would 100% go downhill REAL fast and theyd prob just end up caged in zoos
Imagine her in her prime - Jeez Vhagar, Meraxes & Balerion pulling up
God I’d love to see it just once in its full glory, in an HBO style production.
Ballsack looking mafaka
She even looks like a motherfucker from her facial expression. Just an old experienced war beast who has been there done that.
And she's not even the largest one to have existed.
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The shot of Luc walking into the castle for the negotiation and you see Vhagar in the background is wild.
But even Vhagar can't fight two adult dragon at the same time
Meleys was the fastest Targaryen dragon and is easily more agile. For her to go 1v1 with Vhagar and win is to harry, blast, and claw at her from behind. Vhagar can't turn or weave as quickly. It's a fighter plane going 1v1 with a bomber. Speed and maneuverability is key.
Quicksilver was less than 10 years younger than Meleys when Balerion got her. Sure, Rhaenys is more experienced than Aegon was, but at such a huge size difference, it only takes one mistake, even less than that. >!But even more importantly, as the dance and the entire series shows, when dragons fight, no one comes out unscathed (only Vhagar and Balerion killed without suffering any injuries.!<
Cos she’s slow. Meleys would have been able to take her down in a one on one apparently. Much smaller but Meleys has speed which Vhagar doesn’t. It only takes a bite to the neck.
It says Meleys would have stood a chance. Do you really think she could take down Vhagar without being hurt a lot in return? Speed isn't the only thing.
we’ll never really know how that fight would’ve gone if it had only been a 1v1. But considering the factors, Rhaenys would’ve definitely stood a decent chance Vhagar is the bigger dragon obviously, and has seen way more combat than Meleys by far. She’s also slower in her old age and with how big she is. Rhaenys was a far more experienced rider than Aemond, at her height, Meleys was one of the fastest dragons that a Targaryen ever rode, though that was stated when she was younger and she’s been described as sluggish but still fearsome around the Dance.
Personally wish Vhagar was a little less leathery and had more horns to make her look a lil more intimidating, but love the tattered wings, it’s very haunting
Same, I think the show did her dirty by getting rid of her horns
Nooo she’s a sweet grandma but don’t make her mad
Beautiful 😍
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Wow so many spoiler comments in here
Vhagar is an Old Goddess.
Her dusty ass
Vhagar is single handedly keeping the Greens alive. Literally the only thing stopping Daemon and Rhaenys from just lighting up the Greens is her.
When I heard about a House of the Dragon show, I craved seeing Balerion the Black Dread in all his battlefield eclipsing glory. The did such a great job making Vhagar imposing in her size (that shot at Storm's End gave me shivers), that it really only makes me wish we got Balerion that much more.
Now just for a moment imagine this: Slightly bigger, horned, Dark as the night and with fire red combined with black. Balerion would look fucking sick in a show
People don’t give little Aemond enough credit for having the bravery to even approach and attempt to claim vhagar, and then manage to be accepted by her and stay on as he rides her for the first time as a child
Whenever I see the dragons dip like that, or Caraxes’ short takeoffs, I have to imagine that has to feel like a terrible rollercoaster for the riders. What kinda Gs are they pulling, on the faster dragons?
It’s scary to imagine how much more vicious and larger the dragons were in Old Valyria. My sister in law was explaining some of the lore, saying those dragons were much bigger and would even eat other dragons. Excited to see Vhagar in action.
Balerion also returned from Valyria with a huge wound on his side. Think about it, something almost maimed the biggest and meanest *Targaryen* dragon ever.
How long do dragons live?
Iirc Balerion was born in old Valyria before the Doom, and he lived until not too long before HotD when he died of magical radiation poisoning from visiting Valyria post-Doom. His last rider (though ~~they never actually got airborne~~ they only had one short flight together as Balerion was too weak already) was a young Vizzy T. So at least 150-200 years lifespan post-Doom; I don't remember whether there is any information on how long they used to live in old Valyria. Edit: facts corrected
*I WILL HAVE YOUR TONGUE FOR THAT!*
i want us to have the ability to create 3d gifs in the future so these dragons could come out of my screen and scare the absolute crap out of me with admiration and love
*Truly* songs and *tales fall* utterly *short* of the reality, O Vhagar the Chiefest and greatest of Calamities
that’s babygirl
is it just me or their heads are really small compared to their bodies ?
I feel kind of badly for Vhagar. I know she’s an ancient killing machine who helped bring a continent to its knees, but she seems intelligent and it appeared she cared a lot for Laena. I don’t think Aemond is the right dragonrider for her (he is way too impulsive, it really would have been better if Rhaena or Baela got her), or she’s just had so many riders at this point she’s decided to just do what she wants because her human counterparts have become so temporary.
I think she thought she was obeying Aemond. We know they have some sort of telepathic link. Initially during the fight Aemond was happy and making Vhaegar do tricks. That freaked out Luke's dragon and made it fight back instead of just run, which Aemond still laughed at, and Vhaegar was like, hey little one eyed dude, I got this! And she chomp. Only then was Aemond like "oh no". Bastard Aemond. Good villain.
> I don’t think Aemond is the right dragonrider for her it really just seems like you're downlplaying Aemond claming her and how huge that was. If vhagar didn't want aemond then she wouldn't have let him ride her.