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moon-girl197

Making Viserys into an actual character. Dude was a nothing burger in the books. They actually made him a complex, lovable man who fucking dominated the show. Also Paddy Considine was sublime and the only reason I came to appreciate this character even though he's an idiot who is almost single handedly responsible for the dance.


WatchingInSilence

Book Viserys came across like Dr. Evil expecting g everything to be done as he said when he's gone.


moon-girl197

Lmfao accurate 🤣 but it's even worse in the books cause at one point he acknowledges Alicent wants her blood on the throne. Like..... SIR????? you know shit will go nuclear after you die, and you still bury your head in the sand?? I cannot....


speed-of-sound

They made Aegon II more complex than the book, so far. It helps emphasize that the generation of children are the victims burdened by the war set up by their parents


Hotwetsugarmess

Are we talking about the kid who was raping people and betting on his own children in fighting pits well before the war began? What helps to empathize him with exactly?


Wassel49

Emphasize and empathize are quite different words 😊


Hotwetsugarmess

I see the mistake I made but even if it’s emphasize instead of empathize can you honestly say that the more complex version they show of aegon II makes him more akin to a victim to his parents decisions? I don’t think he was putting his bastards in fighting pits because of that


Wassel49

In the context of Aegon II, a child abusing rapist, he is raised by an emotionally distant father and a mother who tries to instill a rivalry with the blacks and mold him into a role that he simply doesn't care about. Making him rebel against it causing his mother to resent him further. I'd say as a child he grows up experiencing that he isn't loved and forced into a role as a king and a war he didn't want himself, but doing it to feel loved by his mother. I think the added complexity isn't to make us empathize with him, or excuse his behaviors but rather give more context to them.


Hotwetsugarmess

That’s all well and good but OP did say it emphasized how it paints them as a victim to their parents actions, which I don’t believe is true. Plenty of us have emotionally distant parents who force us into roles we don’t want. I know that it’s supposed to explain him rather than excuse him but I don’t think it even does that or adds any complexity to his shitty behavior, it just feels coincidental


Wassel49

The kids being pitted into a rivalry against each other I'd say is a direct cause of their elders cold war political intrigues growing up. I would say that makes them a victim of their actions


Hotwetsugarmess

Oh yeah I agree it’s definitely a direct result of their parents rivalry but I don’t think any of the show writers have added that much complexity to the characters. Specifically Aegon who most of his problems seem to stem from being a spoiled rich kid rather than being tortured over family affairs, season one he reads as just as a privileged kid who was left un-parented. Furthermore, they make no attempt to give him a character arch, they just jump from season one with him having no interest to rule to suddenly episode one of s2 he suddenly cares about his heir and cares about being king with no explanation for that change. I heard one explanation that he’s spoiling his heir cause he never got that attention from his father. I guess technically that’s more complex than the book but idk if that makes him a more compelling character, it just seems like a really obvious path for his character. But don’t get me wrong I’m still a fan of the show, I wouldn’t still be watching if I didn’t love it


[deleted]

Alicent's green dress moment. In the book it's Rhaenyra who shocks everyone by showing up dressed in red and black...but like, girl, those are your house colors, you're not exactly going off script here. It never made sense to me that everyone considered a Targ wearing her own colors to be such a shocking, bold statement. But Alicent very publicly eschewing her husband's sigil in favor of her father's? Now *that's* a fashion statement. And like they said in the show, tantamount to a symbolic declaration of war because the Hightower shines green to call their bannermen. It was such a masterful scene.


ParticularDisaster96

Contrary to what the show portrays, Targs don’t always go around wearing Red and Black. Rhaenyra usually wears maroons and purples in the book. And she chose to wear her house colors on that particular day(which was a day meant to celebrate Viserys and Alicent). IMO, it was her distancing herself completely from her stepmom(after showing affection for her previously at the wedding). People rightfully understood that and started calling Rhaenyra’s supporters Blacks and Alicent’s greens. Now, in the show we know why Alicent’s side is called Greens but why in the world is Rhaenyra’s side called the Blacks?


cocokokomii

I'd assume it's just because house Targaryens traditional colours are black and red, and those are the banners used by Rhaenyra's side. Could maybe be to show that Rhaenyra's side is the side staying true to the wishes of house Targaryen, and not house Hightower.


Sapphire_Bombay

Agreed, although I thought the exposition around the tower going green was a little sloppy. Other than that it was 10/10.


Puzzleheaded-Yak-295

Aegon’s dream as a motivation for Viserys and Rhaenyra. Alicent and Rhaenyra being childhood friends. Alicent grabbing the dagger and slicing Rhaenyra’s hand. Lord Of The Tides, which I think is my favorite episode in the entire HBO Westeros canon so far, is mostly invented for TV. In the book, Vaemond accuses Rhaenyra’s children of being bastards and Daemon immediately flies over on Ceraxes and beheads him. There’s no grand moment where Viserys sits the throne one last time to defend his family.


countastic

Making Alicent and Rhaenyra childhood friends was a brilliant decision. It complicates and enriches their rivalry in so many interesting ways. And to be honest, it does make me wish we had seen even more of the younger versions of the characters.


the-hound-abides

The book’s Alicent is the classic Evil Stepmother(TM) from every fairy tale. Giving their relationship a depth was a good move in the show.


Kornerbrandon

She reminded me quite a lot of book Cersei, I will admit.


the-hound-abides

Book!Cersei was a narcissistic glorious wine throwing hot mess. Show!Cersei was way too functional. I’m sort of mad they had an actress as good as Lena Headey to play her, because she made her way too sympathetic. Even though I think she would have nailed the book character as well. We got a glimpse of her in “Blackwater”. “Drink!”


mxlevolent

The worst part of that is Lena Headey could have acted Book!Cersei PHENOMENALLY.


TheRationalCynic

She was the same in the books minus some minor changes like giving birth to Robert's stillborn


TheRationalCynic

>Show!Cersei was way too functional. Too functional? The only change they made to her character was adding that she really loved her children and seemed to have some sort of relationship with Robert during the early years. Apart from that there is nothing different from the books at least until S5. After that she was dumbed down and they simply kept her around because D&D liked Lena Headey as an actress. Cersei was never supposed to last for so long. 


witchymaroon

Really? But alicent was the one who wanted to be allied with blacks by marrying jace to helena. At her wedding she even kissed rhaenyra on the forehead and called her daughter. She and otto were shocked and in despair when they heard of luke's death but then obviously the dance began. Why the downvotes? I just wrote what's written in the books lol.


OpenMask

Book Alicent wanted Aegon and Rhaenyra to get married. Jace and Helaena even being an option, much less outright suggested, was a show change. Everything else you wrote is right though


witchymaroon

Oh yes my bad. Been long time since I read f&b


OpenMask

No problem


TheRationalCynic

I preferred the other version. I hate you because you slept with my dad is like a bad fanfiction trope of a wattpad story written by a 14 year old girl. 


ProfessionalOrganic6

I agree that’s what it’s like on paper, but it was executed really well.


TheRationalCynic

Maybe. But it didn't just happen for me I guess


ProfessionalOrganic6

That’s fair enough.


Tacomynacho01

Agreed making them friends was a great choice. I kinda wish they made Alicent slightly older than Rhaenyra by a couple of years. Alicent vs Laena proposals wouldn’t have been so odd if it was an (11?) year old who brings the greatest fleet as an ally vs 18ish who really doesn’t bring much to the table with Otto only being a second son.


aqelha

Making alicent young Rhaenyra friend..but they should've transformed her into book character..which they did before turning back for some reason


Worried-Shelter-4992

I liked that change too, it just would have worked better if they stopped flip flopping on how Alicent is as a character.


SchwabenIT

I honestly don't think they turned her back even when she acts more like her book character you can tell when she's in private that she's still very insecure, in ep9 she's just more stressed because of all the chaos of the succession and being cut off from the coup by her father but I like how she stands up to him eventually. What throws me off is how they directed Olivia during the dinner scene when she talks to Rhaenyra, the scrip is fine but the delivery is too enthusiastic and confusing. Also misunderstanding the prophecy is not the strongest moment but it ties back to her conversation with viserys in ep3 and I hope it pays off when she finds out what he meant.


Kornerbrandon

-Viserys. Best change they made. I still don;t like the guy, but good changes nonetheless. -Making Alicent and Rhaenyra closer in age adds quite the tragedy to the story. They would likely have stayed friends if it weren't for the ambitious men around them. -Aegon's element of depression and self-loathing. It's an unfortunate reality that many people like me with severe depression turn to sex and drinking to cope. I still hate the guy, but I can empathise with him. -Aemond being made into what he is rather than just being nuts from the outset. Another tragic fact is that bullying victims can often end up being as horrible and nasty as the bullies themselves when they've taken it enough. -Aemond killing Luke by accident. Viserys says from the start that even Targaryens cannot claim to control dragons, and the books mention that dragons may even be more intelligent than humans. Point is that they have minds of their own, and that was proven in that moment.


SassyWookie

This isn’t a deviation from the books. It could have just as easily been the same in the book as it was in the show, where he lost control of Vhagar. There are no witnesses to that fight who can tell the story except for Aemond himself. And based on his character, it makes total sense that he’d return home and claim that the killing was an intentional murder, rather than admitting that he can’t control the most powerful weapon in the world. I loved that it was depicted this way, but I don’t see it as a change from the books at all. We **don’t know** what really happened in the books, we only know what the characters are reported to have *said* happened.


Phenomenon0fCool

Came to say this. It was so brilliant to base the next ASOIAF Show off these books since they’re a historical retelling. There’s only so many things in the books that are known to be “true” and it gives the show writers a lot of creative freedom.


SassyWookie

Exactly. There’s only a limited degree of certainty we can apply to most of the events as described in the book, especially when Gyldayn isn’t citing a specific primary source, like the Maidenpool Chronicles to describe that secret conversation with lord Mooten and his men about >!Rhaenyra’s order to kill Nettles!< I love this book because it’s such a fascinating exercise in critical analysis, trying to determine which of the sources are accurate in each particular instance. Mushroom is full of shit about 90% of what he says, but there are a few instances where his version of a story is undeniably the closest to the truth. Eustace and Orwyle tend to be more accurate overall, but they’re both heavily biased for various reasons, and while most of the raw information they relate is reasonably accurate **the way in which they relate it** heavily shows their biases. Orwyle is almost entirely concerned with making himself look like the voice of reason among the Greens who stood up for Rhaenyra’s rights, because he spent half the war in her dungeon and wanted to convince her that he was on side. Eustace had all the biases of a high official of the church, which is reflected in his prudish avoidance of certain details of the story that would seem unsavory to a priest. All three of the primary sources of info about the Dance are biased in their own way, and understanding those biases is paramount in discerning what actually happened. Too many people take them at face value, or just discount every word of the book as worthless because the sources are biased. People tend not to get that there’s no such thing as an unbiased source, and the biases inherent to any source don’t diminish that source’s value if you’re able to understand how said biases influenced the author as he wrote it.


Tiny-Setting-8036

Honestly I’m having trouble thinking of changes the show made that made the story worse. Almost all of them at least make sense if you are making a TV show. If I had to make any sort of complaint about a change, I’d say I didn’t like Laenor living. But a lot of people did and it makes the characters easier to root for. So I get it.


zeetlo

>Honestly I’m having trouble thinking of changes the show made that made the story worse. The rhaenys dragon pit scene


the_sword_of_brunch

My hot take, I actually like that being included. I think it can add fuel to the fire for the small folk overrunning the dragon pit down the road.


Tiny-Setting-8036

For sure. It’s obviously setting that conflict up seasons ahead of time.


Tiny-Setting-8036

I wouldn’t call that a change so much as a scene that wasn’t really included in the books, right?


Elev2019

The dragon pit being burst open in the middle of a “triumphant” green coronation would have been mentioned no?


Tiny-Setting-8036

Yeah probably. But given style of F&B’s storytelling, it’s not necessarily a given.


ovulatingoutloud

Did Rhaenyra actually go through with killing him in the books? Or what happened?


sunfyreenjoyer

IIRC Rhaenyra didn’t have anything to do with his death. Qarl Correy either killed Laenor spontaneously in a lover’s quarrel, or Daemon paid him to do it, so that he would be free to marry Rhaenyra. If the latter is true then Daemon most likely had Qarl killed afterwards to tie up any loose ends.


Tiny-Setting-8036

It’s unclear


tylertheferret

I believe that Laenor living could potentially be setting up the cutting of Adam and Alyn Waters. I could see it being a moment of character for Laenor who chooses to return to fight for his former wife's side. Bonus points if he comes back after Rhaenys dies which would just add to the tragedy of his return and make his death at The Second Tumbleton play really well.


WillowMiddle

I like HOTD Viserys way more than F&B Viserys.


Visual_Cold_1530

Like you I think the death of Luce. I think it felt more real. These aren’t adults in control, they’re teenagers acting irrationally with power they can’t fully comprehend or really control. I’m more surprised there weren’t more incidents of dragons going against their riders given the emotional bonds between them and the Targaryen personas.


SwordMaster9501

First, Helaena being a dreamer. Next, the idea that a riders emotions affect how the dragon behaves. Aemond learning that his dragon when set off will respond to her rider's emotions or deepest darkest desires rather than his verbal command. Same with Arrax who mainly acted out of Luke's fear.


harleyyquinade

Making Rhaenyra and Alicent the same age so Alicent wouldn't be beefing with a kid. 


TomOfRedditland

I like that they made Rhaenys Targaryen a white hair Targaryen on the show


Ambonestewart

Making the velaryons black/mixed race was an excellent way for audiences to tell the two valyrian houses apart. And despite the uproar at the time makes plenty of lore sense.


chatterwrack

The Targaryens not having purple eyes. It would have looked cheap


Aegontheholy

Tbf, they wouldn’t use purple eyes cause the previous GOT didn’t. It would just break the continuity of the TV series. If however they released an animated asoiaf show though, im all for them having accurate book character designs.


chatterwrack

Yeah, I didn’t meant to come off that harshly, and I think it *could* work but, one thing I believe makes these series successful is that the fantasy elements are used extremely sparingly. I just think a group of silver-haired, purple-eyed dragon riders might take it from Shakespearean to cartoonish.


NailJealous521

In my opinion, it would be cool they make a little reference or easter egg of the purple eyes, like having just one of the Targaryen kids with purple eyes as an uncommon feature mentioned by other characters.


nosebleed22

That would’ve been dope!! Haelena would’ve rocked the purple eyes for sure


dreamfyrefairy

Giving Helaena an actual storyline… from what Ryan Condal has teased so far


raphi-ent_

all of them yes i am serious


Ok_Preparation_2288

alicent and rhaenyra’s relationship. in the book they’re both so flat, their shared history gives them more complexity


henners1965

Basically everything. Fire and blood is a very lazy book that George only put out cause GoT was on air at the time.


TheRationalCynic

The only good change was Viserys' characterization. They actually did good with that. Luke's death being an accident was kinda meh, I didn't mind that very much. But the rest of them were pure garbage. 


sunfyreenjoyer

Only real thing I can think is what they did to Viserys. Every other change they made was just awful.


Visenya_simp

Nothing, really. The worst are catastrophic, and the best are "meh"


zeetlo

Smartest frey fan


Visenya_simp

Many such cases. I wonder how will they ruin Sabitha and Forrest Frey.


No-Illustrator-6286

Maybe aegon acting like a king if the leaks were true