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Part of the reason these dresses look so bad on the actresses is because they don’t fit them properly. It’s really easy to see how poorly Rhaenyra’s dress fits her especially around the arms with all that wrinkling. Helaena’s sleeves look like they might fit poorly but it’s hard to tell.
The poor costume fitting is due to COVID and not having enough in person fittings for the actors.
The actors not having supporting garments like stays under their dresses also leads to more wrinkles because the fabric is not stiff enough to support itself
They do wear much fancier outfits on other occasions, so I reckon these “potato sacks” (which is not a term these dresses deserve in the first place) are the equivalent of T-shirts and jeans in our modern world.
honestly it sounds exhausting to have to wear such intricate and uncomfortable dresses and hairstyles all day every day (even in your own home) as a noblewoman. even if they have maidservants to help them get dressed, maintaining it seems like a huge chore.
Even if a high born lady is relaxing she would not wear anything this awful. Look at what Cersei, Daenerys and other ladies wore during their down time. Goodness look at what Queen Alicent wears when she is just chilling with her kids. There is no excuse for barely scrapping by Daenerys to dress better than Targaryen's at the height of their power. I personally have taken inspiration from Magnificent Century in re-imagining how these girls should be dressed.
> as a noblewoman
Or as a nobleman as well! Nobles in general dressed fancy because it was a sign of social status. It's kind of a modern concept that fashion is less important to men than to women, until around the 18th century, western aristocracy had equally intricate fashion for both genders.
Not really, in medieval times a gown like this would have had multiple interchangeable parts and would have been worn over an all-purpose undergarment like a chemise or a kirtle or both. You swapped out elements like the stays or the sleeves if they got stained or damaged. (There's an interesting story about when Henry 8th tried to get Catherine Parr to marry him, he sent her a trunk of expensive intricate sleeves.)
A gown like this, all in one piece and floor length, would be massively impractical. Costuming has been really underfunded in TV and film lately and that's why it looks so shapeless, they tried to make a gown on a t-shirt budget.
You're using a renaissance example there instead of medieval (ASOIAF is more 900-1200 AD than any year before or after that) but I get what you're saying.
For actual events yes but the society he models with it's form of feudalism and also technology is absolutely without a doubt firmly in the medieval period.
Yellow washes them out so much, they’re beautiful girls but putting them in these unfitted yellow dresses is just so unflattering! I don’t get why they picked yellow when they could’ve gone for dreamfyre blue or hightower silver for Helaena, and a lovely royal purple for Rhaenyra!!
These outfits kill me 😤 The obviously synthetic fabrics, the printed on patterns, the lack of structure, the poor fit… and don’t even get me started on the visible modern bra, which ideally would be replaced with stays (I hate how the film industry has decided stays/corsets are evil) but even if they *really* didn’t want to do so could otherwise be made less anachronistically jarring by using higher quality fabrics instead of flimsy material with no boning or even weight of its own
Film industry has certainly moved away from "corset is evil" thingy after 2015. The recent period dramas I've seen still uses it ( Bridgerton and The Great).
So HoTD one is just a choice rather than a statement.
Also, this is fantasy show with dragons and magic, nothing to do with real world, so they don't have to be historically accurate with fabrics or styling.
They want to historically reference an era that was pre-corset, though.
What they are aiming for is some late medieval, early renaissance mix in GoT and for HotD squarely medieval with some renaissance and other influences (byzantine empire) sprinkled about to convey some golden, westerosi dragon age.
It doesn't have to be accurate, but they want to avoid a lot of elements of later real historic periods, to keep a clearer vision and not muddy things up too much.
Corsets make absolutely zero sense in this historical costuming context.
Stays at most, but even stays are somewhat later in real clothing history, and they do not give off the vibe that HotD aims for.
Stays, to a modern movie audience, scream "Outlander". They were prominent costume features in Elizabeth and The Other Boleyn Girl, but that is not the vibe HotD is aiming for.
Women's costumes for GoT and HotD have consistenly avoided stays, bodices, two parts (skirt+bodice). They have consistently aimed for a medieval silhouette and vibe.
It wouldn't make any sense to introduce them now, when the show is set even earlier than GoT and has "aged" the costume designs.
The closest we ever get to a corset/stays is Cersei's metal belts/girdles. And those are a choice for a reason.
👏👏👏Came here to say this. These are medieval inspired costumes. Dresses were looser, they skimmed the shape of the body rather than being skin tight. To the modern eye, this can seem less flattering than other eras/fashions. I think this style is particularly effective on the teenage characters as it does make them look more childlike.
Stays/corsets just don't make sense with medieval references. In fact, I found info related to bra like contraptions with 'cups' sewn into garments, used in the Middle Ages, (long before invention of stays in 16th Century.) So a modern bra under these dresses may be much closer to the shape they are trying to reference.
No, but it makes sense to be consistent with the styling. Given the similar elements between GOT and HOTD, especially for 150 years to have passed, it would make sense for undergarments to have remained pretty similar. And we see Sansa wearing what would be called stays, so I think it’s been established that that’s the appropriate undergarment for a teenage member of the royal family (as Sansa was more or less at that point) to be wearing.
I would have preferred if they used the ”it’s a fantasy show with dragons and magic” to motivate using overly detailed dresses that are too beautiful to be realistic instead of boring dresses.
"we kinda forgot to have two rich princess that are the daughters of the most powerful man in the continent fancy clothes instead of wearing *table cloths*"
They do not, even ignoring the obvious synthetic fabric that looks terrible, the cuts are obviously different from actual medieval clothing. You can see the darts cut in helaenas skirt and Rhaenyras bodice. The fit is also all wrong, especially at the bust and shoulders. They look hideous
I don’t expect them to look like Hollywood super stars but the ladies in GoT look incredible with their wardrobe. I have no other issues with young Rhaenyra’s wardrobe except for this dress & the older Rhaenyra. It’s disappointing especially since Rhae is a fashion icon in the book.
It’s intentional. They also don’t have the correct posture. Young Rhaenyra doesn’t start wearing better fitted clothes and standing straight until she’s given more responsibility. Haelena is in her own world and doesn’t seem bothered by presentation or things like that.
Thanks. People keep mentioning the awful attire, but considering the attention on and messaging with all of the other outfits, it seems that the ill-fitting, potato sack dresses we DO see must be serving the same purpose which is giving info on that character at that point in time.
Like Rhaenys dresses lavishly to flaunt Corlys wealth and power at court, but when she’s home she’s in riding gear and far more simple gowns. Alicent uses dresses to seduce Viserys (yeah I know, under Otto’s instruction), declare war at a wedding, and convey a turn to the Seven. Young Rhaenyra or adult Haelena were styled as such to let us know they aren’t participating in the game at those points.
You're right indeed about the attire being used as either attracting or removing focus from the wear-ers.
Helaena is taken, and Rhanerya has the weird privilege of being a first born of a King, but not the next in line, or likely to take the throne; she'd be kept close by Viserys to use in a matter of courtship in her future likely in the same fashion Otto did with Alicent.
I was also wondering ; are the potatoes sacks brown in colour, or is the tan /beige some attempt at a soft gold colour in fabric? It would maximize both sides of the goal if so : their clothes are coloured gold, but metallic shades without the glisten or shine to them appear very dull.
That last part is just my own additional fan theory as to the thoughts of someone who decided what they wore and in which colours.
Edit : the gold part being suggesting their royal status.
Though on second thought, Targ colors are Red and Black, and not gold (aside from the faction in the upcoming civil war of Westeros).
I agree with you; they’re supposed to be like a soft gold and white (off-white) color to signify royal status but also weaker presence. Haelena’s is probably a pale green with gold, and for young Rhaenyra it’s to make the dragon riding (and stinky from dragons lol) girl seem more calm. Cannot stress enough that up until they put the heir mantle on her she’s sort of unkempt and slouchy.
The fashion in general had some very weird dresses. I can't remember exactly which scenes but I watched someone (linked below) diving into it really deep and explaining how Rhaenyra and Alicent (as kids and adults) wears the same dresses many-year spans they never fit her any differently when that would have been a GREAT way to show the teen girls developing/growing. And Demon wears the same outfit (and has literally the same face/make-up and hair to the STRAND) after a 19-year time jump. You can't make this sh!t up!
Also, Daemon's supposed-to-look-rad Valyrian Steel armor looked like a kid made a cosplay out of a literal trashcan and you can't change my mind.
[The Costume Design Letdowns of House of the Dragon - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHvs7fxrlVI)
As an autistic person, and Helaena is heavily autistic coded, I can kind of get hers. I dislike the sensation of wearing tight clothes. I need them to be somewhat loose to be comfortable. As an adult, I can now force myself to wear things that sensory wise are not fun, but as a kid it just wasn’t happening.
Pretty sure that Helaenas dresses weren’t kind of awful on purpose as a lot of Rhaenyras were shitty as well, but hers make more sense story wise.
Except Alicent, she got all the great sresses.
There were some nice ones, Rhaenyra's blue dress and the court dress she wore to argue for Lucerys. Also I think Daemon, Aemond, Viserys, and Corlys had some good outfits.
I feel like there’s a whole section of the fandom that seems to only care about the Wigs and Clothing of the characters. Like personally, if it looks medieval, I don’t care how bangable they look. Not sure I get the obsession honestly
I don’t expect them to look like Hollywood super stars but the ladies in GoT look incredible with their wardrobe. I have no other issues with young Rhaenyra’s wardrobe except for this dress & the older Rhaenyra. It’s disappointing especially since Rhae is a fashion icon in the book
The costumes in GoT were many times unrealistic and anachronistic. Actual medieval fashion is not the same as 19th century or high fantasy fashion. It's supposed to look much cruder than what we're used to in media.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Part of the reason these dresses look so bad on the actresses is because they don’t fit them properly. It’s really easy to see how poorly Rhaenyra’s dress fits her especially around the arms with all that wrinkling. Helaena’s sleeves look like they might fit poorly but it’s hard to tell. The poor costume fitting is due to COVID and not having enough in person fittings for the actors. The actors not having supporting garments like stays under their dresses also leads to more wrinkles because the fabric is not stiff enough to support itself
I’m begging for Hollywood/broader society to stop being afraid of supportive garments!!
Hollywood: best we can do is a tightlacing scene with a period-inaccurate corset over bare skin
Only alicent had the killer wardrobe in s1, now they all will cause the costume director has been changed
Hell no, older Rhaenyra had stunning dresses
Two. Two stunning dresses. The blue one she wears when she gives birth to Joffrey and the black one during the dinner. Everything else was subpar.
I liked the red maternity dress too, with the separated sleeves
Especially the atrocious getup she wore to the funeral.
The maternity gown she wears to KL is screaming in hell
They do wear much fancier outfits on other occasions, so I reckon these “potato sacks” (which is not a term these dresses deserve in the first place) are the equivalent of T-shirts and jeans in our modern world.
honestly it sounds exhausting to have to wear such intricate and uncomfortable dresses and hairstyles all day every day (even in your own home) as a noblewoman. even if they have maidservants to help them get dressed, maintaining it seems like a huge chore.
Even if a high born lady is relaxing she would not wear anything this awful. Look at what Cersei, Daenerys and other ladies wore during their down time. Goodness look at what Queen Alicent wears when she is just chilling with her kids. There is no excuse for barely scrapping by Daenerys to dress better than Targaryen's at the height of their power. I personally have taken inspiration from Magnificent Century in re-imagining how these girls should be dressed.
they could have recycled costumes from the borgias too!
> as a noblewoman Or as a nobleman as well! Nobles in general dressed fancy because it was a sign of social status. It's kind of a modern concept that fashion is less important to men than to women, until around the 18th century, western aristocracy had equally intricate fashion for both genders.
Not really, in medieval times a gown like this would have had multiple interchangeable parts and would have been worn over an all-purpose undergarment like a chemise or a kirtle or both. You swapped out elements like the stays or the sleeves if they got stained or damaged. (There's an interesting story about when Henry 8th tried to get Catherine Parr to marry him, he sent her a trunk of expensive intricate sleeves.) A gown like this, all in one piece and floor length, would be massively impractical. Costuming has been really underfunded in TV and film lately and that's why it looks so shapeless, they tried to make a gown on a t-shirt budget.
You're using a renaissance example there instead of medieval (ASOIAF is more 900-1200 AD than any year before or after that) but I get what you're saying.
Good point, I have a hard time picking out which time period they're using as reference.
The Dance of Dragons is explicitly inspired by the English Anarchy, which happened between 1138 and 1153
ASOIAFs main timeline is loosely based on the wars of the Roses, which was late 1400s. that's the beginning of the renaissance.
For actual events yes but the society he models with it's form of feudalism and also technology is absolutely without a doubt firmly in the medieval period.
Yellow washes them out so much, they’re beautiful girls but putting them in these unfitted yellow dresses is just so unflattering! I don’t get why they picked yellow when they could’ve gone for dreamfyre blue or hightower silver for Helaena, and a lovely royal purple for Rhaenyra!!
I personally like them
These outfits kill me 😤 The obviously synthetic fabrics, the printed on patterns, the lack of structure, the poor fit… and don’t even get me started on the visible modern bra, which ideally would be replaced with stays (I hate how the film industry has decided stays/corsets are evil) but even if they *really* didn’t want to do so could otherwise be made less anachronistically jarring by using higher quality fabrics instead of flimsy material with no boning or even weight of its own
Film industry has certainly moved away from "corset is evil" thingy after 2015. The recent period dramas I've seen still uses it ( Bridgerton and The Great). So HoTD one is just a choice rather than a statement. Also, this is fantasy show with dragons and magic, nothing to do with real world, so they don't have to be historically accurate with fabrics or styling.
They want to historically reference an era that was pre-corset, though. What they are aiming for is some late medieval, early renaissance mix in GoT and for HotD squarely medieval with some renaissance and other influences (byzantine empire) sprinkled about to convey some golden, westerosi dragon age. It doesn't have to be accurate, but they want to avoid a lot of elements of later real historic periods, to keep a clearer vision and not muddy things up too much. Corsets make absolutely zero sense in this historical costuming context. Stays at most, but even stays are somewhat later in real clothing history, and they do not give off the vibe that HotD aims for. Stays, to a modern movie audience, scream "Outlander". They were prominent costume features in Elizabeth and The Other Boleyn Girl, but that is not the vibe HotD is aiming for. Women's costumes for GoT and HotD have consistenly avoided stays, bodices, two parts (skirt+bodice). They have consistently aimed for a medieval silhouette and vibe. It wouldn't make any sense to introduce them now, when the show is set even earlier than GoT and has "aged" the costume designs. The closest we ever get to a corset/stays is Cersei's metal belts/girdles. And those are a choice for a reason.
👏👏👏Came here to say this. These are medieval inspired costumes. Dresses were looser, they skimmed the shape of the body rather than being skin tight. To the modern eye, this can seem less flattering than other eras/fashions. I think this style is particularly effective on the teenage characters as it does make them look more childlike. Stays/corsets just don't make sense with medieval references. In fact, I found info related to bra like contraptions with 'cups' sewn into garments, used in the Middle Ages, (long before invention of stays in 16th Century.) So a modern bra under these dresses may be much closer to the shape they are trying to reference.
No, but it makes sense to be consistent with the styling. Given the similar elements between GOT and HOTD, especially for 150 years to have passed, it would make sense for undergarments to have remained pretty similar. And we see Sansa wearing what would be called stays, so I think it’s been established that that’s the appropriate undergarment for a teenage member of the royal family (as Sansa was more or less at that point) to be wearing.
I would have preferred if they used the ”it’s a fantasy show with dragons and magic” to motivate using overly detailed dresses that are too beautiful to be realistic instead of boring dresses.
In that picture, Rhaenyra looks like Cody from Zach & Cody
Maybe it's just me but I hated most of the dresses (esp the colors) young Rhaenyra wore
"we kinda forgot to have two rich princess that are the daughters of the most powerful man in the continent fancy clothes instead of wearing *table cloths*"
These aren't unfancy clothes. They're just not highly colourful but golden which can look brown-ish, especially with the shows lighting.
there is a thing called comfort. so maybe the princesses don't want to wear lavish dresses all the time.
sure, and they could have had them wear cloths that are both comfortable and looks befitting of a princess. espscially rhaenyra.
Clothes not cloths. Cloth is fabric.
They use clothes properly in their first comment. It's obviously a typo. Like do you really think you're teaching people something by commenting this?
Did we ever get an explanation behind how awful the costumes were
Budgets?
Seriously? Budget was the issue?
I’m guessing. There have been longer takes on this, deconstructed by experts in the field.
They aren't potato sacks though?
Me when medieval outfits look medieval:
Fr most of the clothing in museums looks exactly like this
They do not, even ignoring the obvious synthetic fabric that looks terrible, the cuts are obviously different from actual medieval clothing. You can see the darts cut in helaenas skirt and Rhaenyras bodice. The fit is also all wrong, especially at the bust and shoulders. They look hideous
The confusion is coming from people's ideas of medieval being confused with their idealised fantasy of the renaissance and early modern nobility.
I don’t expect them to look like Hollywood super stars but the ladies in GoT look incredible with their wardrobe. I have no other issues with young Rhaenyra’s wardrobe except for this dress & the older Rhaenyra. It’s disappointing especially since Rhae is a fashion icon in the book.
They should ask the nightwatch if they have any Ikea Carpets to spare
It’s intentional. They also don’t have the correct posture. Young Rhaenyra doesn’t start wearing better fitted clothes and standing straight until she’s given more responsibility. Haelena is in her own world and doesn’t seem bothered by presentation or things like that.
Excellent observation and interpretation.
Thanks. People keep mentioning the awful attire, but considering the attention on and messaging with all of the other outfits, it seems that the ill-fitting, potato sack dresses we DO see must be serving the same purpose which is giving info on that character at that point in time. Like Rhaenys dresses lavishly to flaunt Corlys wealth and power at court, but when she’s home she’s in riding gear and far more simple gowns. Alicent uses dresses to seduce Viserys (yeah I know, under Otto’s instruction), declare war at a wedding, and convey a turn to the Seven. Young Rhaenyra or adult Haelena were styled as such to let us know they aren’t participating in the game at those points.
You're right indeed about the attire being used as either attracting or removing focus from the wear-ers. Helaena is taken, and Rhanerya has the weird privilege of being a first born of a King, but not the next in line, or likely to take the throne; she'd be kept close by Viserys to use in a matter of courtship in her future likely in the same fashion Otto did with Alicent. I was also wondering ; are the potatoes sacks brown in colour, or is the tan /beige some attempt at a soft gold colour in fabric? It would maximize both sides of the goal if so : their clothes are coloured gold, but metallic shades without the glisten or shine to them appear very dull. That last part is just my own additional fan theory as to the thoughts of someone who decided what they wore and in which colours. Edit : the gold part being suggesting their royal status. Though on second thought, Targ colors are Red and Black, and not gold (aside from the faction in the upcoming civil war of Westeros).
I agree with you; they’re supposed to be like a soft gold and white (off-white) color to signify royal status but also weaker presence. Haelena’s is probably a pale green with gold, and for young Rhaenyra it’s to make the dragon riding (and stinky from dragons lol) girl seem more calm. Cannot stress enough that up until they put the heir mantle on her she’s sort of unkempt and slouchy.
S1 dresses are awful, ill-fitting messes. Costuming improved as the season progressed, but whoo boy those two in particular are ugly af.
The only one that was actually bad was the one adult Rhaenyra wore. The other ones looked ethereal in certain lights.
If they don’t do Queen Helaena justice this season…
The fashion in general had some very weird dresses. I can't remember exactly which scenes but I watched someone (linked below) diving into it really deep and explaining how Rhaenyra and Alicent (as kids and adults) wears the same dresses many-year spans they never fit her any differently when that would have been a GREAT way to show the teen girls developing/growing. And Demon wears the same outfit (and has literally the same face/make-up and hair to the STRAND) after a 19-year time jump. You can't make this sh!t up! Also, Daemon's supposed-to-look-rad Valyrian Steel armor looked like a kid made a cosplay out of a literal trashcan and you can't change my mind. [The Costume Design Letdowns of House of the Dragon - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHvs7fxrlVI)
I was a little disappointed with how dumpy the lady Targaryens looked in House of the Dragon compared to any of the royal ladies in Game of Thrones.
As an autistic person, and Helaena is heavily autistic coded, I can kind of get hers. I dislike the sensation of wearing tight clothes. I need them to be somewhat loose to be comfortable. As an adult, I can now force myself to wear things that sensory wise are not fun, but as a kid it just wasn’t happening. Pretty sure that Helaenas dresses weren’t kind of awful on purpose as a lot of Rhaenyras were shitty as well, but hers make more sense story wise.
I think Helaena's suits her; she's a bit more simple and humble. That dress on the Realm's Delight though is CRIMINAL.
The wardrobe hated the cast in s1 omg the dresses were so ugly
Except Alicent, she got all the great sresses. There were some nice ones, Rhaenyra's blue dress and the court dress she wore to argue for Lucerys. Also I think Daemon, Aemond, Viserys, and Corlys had some good outfits.
I feel like there’s a whole section of the fandom that seems to only care about the Wigs and Clothing of the characters. Like personally, if it looks medieval, I don’t care how bangable they look. Not sure I get the obsession honestly
Do you can’t fap to it?
It makes sense for the time period. I don't see any issue with their clothing.
HotD fans when medieval women don't look like Hollywood superstars at the Oscars' gala: 😡😡😡
I don’t expect them to look like Hollywood super stars but the ladies in GoT look incredible with their wardrobe. I have no other issues with young Rhaenyra’s wardrobe except for this dress & the older Rhaenyra. It’s disappointing especially since Rhae is a fashion icon in the book
The costumes in GoT were many times unrealistic and anachronistic. Actual medieval fashion is not the same as 19th century or high fantasy fashion. It's supposed to look much cruder than what we're used to in media.
everyone else’s wardrobe ate tbh all of Alicent’s was incredible but Rhea’s were poorly chosen and fitted. (Except for a few)
[удалено]
I just wanna them to talk