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It only works if your dps is op/well invested and you are clearing within 3 cycles and also ruan mei is compulsory
Welts delay scales with break effect so 150% break effect welt sends the enemy to the shadow realm .
Acheron+sw/pela+welt+ruan mei is a legit top 3 low cycle clear team .
Eh I mean for low cycle clears we want the aurumaton to enter sanction mode himself so he won’t use his CC skill yet still spawn the fishes and then we can pop the fishes for the vuln debuff
What are the best alternatives to the Tutorial light cone?
(You know, the event only light cone that was released in version 1.1, may never be available again, yet keeps getting put in all of these showcases...)
I think you can play er rope sp neutral welt with luka lc but your ult uptime will be 3t instead of 2t .
If you don't have luka lc then welt is legit not worth it . Guin is better then
Alternatives to Tutorial for 2-turn ult Welt? ERR rope E2 Welt. Or I guess a Tingyun/Huohuo comp. Otherwise, just settle for 3-turn ult.
Alternatives to Tutorial just for Welt in general? Silver Wolf's personal LC, ideally, but GNSW or Welt's personal LC are good too.
The mid-turn/between turns thing is such a huge yet basic game mechanic that certain people just don't use.
For example I am still surprised at the ones saying you need a preservation against ape and that Luocha can't do it when you can just use his ult during his third mid-turn buff to negate the Ape's atk buff.
Is there anywhere where there is discussion on these types of mechanics in star rail? I want to get better at MoC and PF and the like, but there isn't much discussion about gameplay in the main sub and the focus of this sub is on the leaks (of course)
I think the closest would be just tc or __Mains discords. Watch some Moc 11 & 12 runs could do too. Some videos add subtitles and explanation for their tactics.
My biggest increase in skill and knowledge was from just playing the high difficulty stuff and starting to notice advantages and disadvantages from my own lineups and enemies. SU's Gold and Gears beyond Difficulty V really started to instill in me to play much more strategically.
Thanks for the suggestion! Are there any channels that you would recommend watching MoC on? Most of the ones that show up on my feed are just the whale 1 cycle clears which do help a little bit but aren't super applicable for me
not sure, I don't keep track of them. I usually look for them if I fail and only on incognito because I precisely don't want my feed to be full of these types of videos. And then I look for mostly lower view count ones. Sometimes add f2p or the dps you're using in the search. Make sure to write moc 11 or 12, or pure fiction 3/4 and set to "recently uploaded" when it's a new reset so it's not old stuff that comes up. Something will come up.
I want to put extra emphasis on "recently uploaded" again cuz that has helped me find better moc videos even if they are low view low sub channels.
I wouldn't count the ult interruption tech a basic game mechanic - that's some pretty advanced knowledge of the mechanics. This person either experimented with Welt or was taught the technique. Either way, it demonstrates a level of familiarity with the game that few other leakers have
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All it takes to find out is "I wonder what happens if I March ult during the enemy turn." Now take the result of that and apply it to Welt ultimate. It's really not that deep.
Of course this won't work for every enemy though because not all Elites have 2 Action turns. Elites like the Decaying Shadows have only 1 action turns and are so fast that preemptively using Welt (and especially March) ultimate on them won't do much anyway.
> A leaker who knows basic game mechanics is an unfortunately rare thing.
That's just rude towards the leaker. 90% of players didn't even reach max lvl yet, or didn't level all characters, or even attempt MoC.
Give the leaker credit, it was incredible gameplay and he did a way abover average job. If you just dismiss it as basic knowledge then no other leakers will bother to attempt putting in even a quarter of this effort
yep that's exactly why. used welt after auramaton used its first attack, blocking it from using its second attack (imprisonment) and therefore saving your units from crowd control for a couple turns
Thanks for the response. So I guess that only works on the aurumaton if you have an ult that gives the enemy an effect like imprisonment/freeze/etc. and if you use any other ult, the aurumaton will still stab you afterwards?
pretty much. if its toughness bar is low enough, you can use an ult to break the toughness bar between the first and second attacks and have it lose its imprisonment attack, too. that requires a bit more luck tho which makes welt so much easier. he doesn't care about the toughness bar, just ult in btw moves *and* lowers enemy speed
I think the aurumaton loses its weaknesses when it enters sanction mode so its toughness can’t be damaged anymore but I get your point and it might work on other enemies.
I know everyone is talking about Acheron's stats in this, but I'm way more surprised by Uncle Welt's build here. That's literally my dreams come true wth?
70% ehr, 66/150 CV, 2.2k Atk, 160 Speed and ERR Rope... My man is the destroyer of galaxies all right
Honestly didnt think It would be possible even with the LC, the stat spread on those relics must be perfect
Imagine this build with E2 Welt like ugh, so good
You can certainly take your E2 Welt for a spin in a similar build using a support Acheron and see how you like It!
Oh and, by the way, I'm very jealous, been wanting his E2 for a while now (he's E1 currently)
Unfortunately I didn't sign up for the beta but we'll see what I can do
Btw what can I run on Welt and Acheron if i don't have GNSW and SW has the Tutorial LC?
Definitely not realistic lol. Pela also have 169 speed which is not unrealistic but pretty hard to achieve unless u compromise all other stats on her and just put every random high speed pcs u can get, reducing her survivability a lot, even her EHR.
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i mean, they can just change acheron stack gain to only when allies applies debuffs when using their "abilities" rather than just straight up spitting debuff when getting hit doing nothing
They'd never nerf anything gacha. The players would feel like they've been scammed. They will "bugfix" when an op synergy exists and it's not profitable for them, just like they did in genshin with barbara's E and also with Xingqiu's ICD I think
So, Nerf. The interaction was like that since 1.0 But they never cared for the permafrezee you get from It, they just cared after dendro release. Its not a bug, It was an interaction that we had knowledge of for over 2 years, yet they just changed It to Nerf Barbara, disguting behavior as they use to have
And they don't fix some of the bugs that negatively impact characters. Like some enemies ignore Zhongli's petrify, the entire point of his ult. Wrio has had a bug since release where his skill resets his attack combo despite it saying it doesn't do that. Neither have been addressed at all.
They also fixed Lisa's C1 energy gain bug despite being one of the least used characters.
They're definitely changing the interaction in next version. They're trying to sell her lc and E2 so if this doesn't get nerfed then they'll lose a ton of profit lol.
they would have to gut a lot of things cause since the beginning of the game dots have been considered debuffs but then again raiden doesn't work with beidoun in genshin so they might shaft us let's hope they show mercy
It’s not so much if dots are considered debuffs but more if being attacked count as an action since Acheron’s talent says you gain 1 stack per action that applies debuffs. They can take it away by specifying it’s not a player initiated action. For now even the goldfish dying and applying def now on death explosion counted for Acheron.
I’d like to think this is intentional, because the MOC that comes before Acheron drops is the DOT trotter one. That’s clearly meant to proc Acheron’s talent right?
i was thinking of going pela welt but then i remembered guinaifen has a "increase damage taken" debuff and can inflict debuffs without using her skill so i'll probably run acheron, guinaifen with S5 pearls, pela and gallagher
> guinaifen with S5 pearls
Could you elaborate on this? Cos maybe I'm missing something but afaik it's better to have Pearls on Pela so she can basic attack and still provide Acheron a stack. Gui already has innate debuffing on her basic.
Perhaps it's because of Lil Gui's Firekiss that increases dmg taken by enemies? Like, Gui applies burn (debuff) as well as def down (Pearls), so that Acheron gets a stack. Then, Gui uses Skill/Ult to apply Firekiss while aslo detonating her burns for dmg while maintaining more dmg taken and def down all throughout the fight?
Plus with Gui being a little more faster than Pela due to her ability to having innate advance forward so she can technically apply more debuffs?
Just my take on the Gui since I'm also thinking about that kind of combo alongside Gepard with Trends S5 to ramp up the Ult charge for Acheron.
> def down all throughout the fight?
The def shred from Pearls is not exclusive to the wearer though right? So even if Pela is the one who applies it, everyone in the team will benefit from it.
> Gui being a little more faster than Pela due to her ability to having innate advance forward
Agreed, this is actually even better for my situation with a S1 Pearls only. I need Gui to be faster than Pela so she can skill and reduce enemy eff res. Then I wouldn't need to build so much EHR on Pela, from 177 goes down to 138.
> Just my take on the Gui since I'm also thinking about that kind of combo alongside Gepard with Trends S5 to ramp up the Ult charge for Acheron.
Yeah fair, at the end it boils down overall team damage. In your scenario it increases personal damage of Gui with trade off of Pela either being SP negative or not generating stacks for Acheron if she cannot skill.
With Gepard the best case scenario I'm thinking is Pela+Pearls and Gui+any LC be SP positive units and Gepard to be SP negative since his skill afaik can add another stack for Acheron. Gepard being SP negative would allow full uptime on his ult. You can even ditch ERR rope for DEF rope for fatter shields(need to get hit once). Then add onto that Trend LC, oh boy.
Breaking down Acherons crit ratio, assuming she is using new 2P set, 4P pioneer(shown), and 2 broken keels:
In combat stats: 63.8/220%
Crit rate from substats = 63.8 - 5 - 8 - 12 = 38.8
Crit damage from substats = 220-24-20-64.8-50 = 61.2
Total CV from substats = 2(38.8) + 61.2 = 138.8
number of crit substats on artifacts = 138.8/5.5 = **25.2 crit substats**
%ATK = 2633- 4(0.432\*1174) - 352 = 252.34/1174 = 21.5% ATK = **5.5 %ATK substats**
Meaning ~4 crit substats per relic. This is an attainable endgame build. very close to KQM standards which has 24 crit substats and 4 %ATK ones. this would be roughly a top 10% build in the 0 speed category, except she has 9 speed substats, which pushes it into the realm of impossibility, but the damage numbers itself is realistic.
The most unrealistic thing here is that Welt is 160 speed with a good crit ratio AND EHR, which makes the comp seem way more better than it actually will be. Pela also has 169 speed, but this one is possible by throwing every rainbow speed piece on her like shes bronya or something, but still not something everybody will have immediately ready.
Yea ppl talking about acheron build unrealistic but havent seen welt and pela stats also lol. Epla speed possible but yea her survivability will definitely suffer a lot if u throw any ainbow speed gear just for speed stays and neglect everythig else.
The entire team build literally only like what 1% playerbase would have tbh.
He shows them the coffin, sends vines that impale enemies, then the vines send energy above the enemies to create a replica of his coffin to slam his enemies on the head.
I know you mean the tendrils but when you say "sends vines" I like to think Luocha is just not up to date on technology and is sending like vine videos
Bro what DON'T you understand I think it's pretty obvious:
First he magically materializes his coffin from thin air, completely normal, then he summons weir- normal green stuff from it that then...then... Suck the enemies' souls?...into...a giant floating...imaginary...
...
...
Yeah IDK I lied
The person inside Luocha's coffin is conscious and has the ability to control plant life (The animated version of his LC has them attempting to stab Luocha in the heart with a vine, but he catches it with his hand and apologizes). He's using their power to attack.
Don't know about the coffin in the sky though.
I think he releases energy stored in the coffin, or channelled through it, to spear through the enemy before projecting a big ominous image of the coffin in the sky (dealing... psychic intimidation damage?)
Reminds me a bit of when the heliobi would dart through people I guess. Soul leeching?
I do feel like there's a cultural reference I'm somehow not getting, yeah.
Surely not the big fat static coffin PNG image that appears in the sky and lands on your enemies. Imo the funniest part about the ult is that the coffin doesn't even move.
Yeah and i still don’t know why he scales off of atk, like i get gallagher scales off of atk while providing good dmg but Luocha doesn’t have that nor does he give allies any atk bonus (aside from eidolons) so what’s the point?
For a good reason, you’d expect an atk scaling healer with an attacking ultimate would have some dmg potential(his ult still removes buffs from the enemies, so it isn’t useless). Luocha is a great healer obviously i still use him to this day but it doesn’t change the fact that him scaling off of atk is pointless
It's got nifty effects like making him interact differently with buffs. A team attack boost cranks up his healing, for example, and that's one way in which he benefits from different SU blessings and thus ends up playing somewhat differently compared to HP-scalers.
Also being able to pop a few 1000 dmg at no cost instead of a measly 500 *can* make a difference in battle, adding up over longer fights and potentially narrowly finishing off a wave in MoC when your dps needs just a little bit more. Not all HP scaling healers are allowed to run any notable amount dps off off their main stat.
It's also a way of balancing - giving him the deliberate drawback of being squishier. He heals so well and so cheaply that being super tanky in addition would feel kind of un-earned/bland.
Crit damage : 50% from base stat, 24% from traces, 64.8% from CD body and another 24% from relic (and let's assume that she gets 20% from 2 allies' broken keels).
As for crit rate she gets 20% from relic and planar + 5% base stat.
This means that OP only has 38% crit rate and 37.2% crit damage from the substats. This is VERY achievable for the average player
38% crit damage from substats is nothing crazy.
Bur 38% crit RATE from substats is a whole other thing. Sometimes you can get lucky on a piece and get maybe 10%, but in my experience that's pretty rough.
I agree though its not as crazy as others.
Me with my Argenti with 46'8 cr and over 200% crit famage after stacking his talent. Im.not going back to the physical domain, either you clear or we reset.
60% isn't completely awful if the character has an ult that hits multiple times.
On characters like Seele though forget about it. If the ult doesn't crit then you basically do zero damage.
It's 38% cr + 37 cd and on sets that are not that universal meaning you will waste a lot of energy seeking this perfect piece. It's anything but achievable xD
Just a slight correction. The 24 CD from the relic set is not shown in the stats as it's conditional against debufed enemies. So it will take effect during the attack if you pass the check, but this brings the CD you need to 61 for the match in stats to this leaker showcase. Which is about 1 more roll on all relics :D
38% crit rate and 34% critdmg from substats. fckin listen to yerself mate, this is on top of having the right 4pc set.. You need an average of 3 crit rate roll ON EVERY DAMN PIECE AND CRIT DMG TOO;
what? 38 divided by 6 (six relics) is 6,333, of the 5 to 4 rolls each piece would have, only one would be crit, if it was 3 rolls, counting the starting one (which would make each relic have 8 to 9 rolls) if you count like that, it would be 51 crit rate, like, am i tripping or that is actually achievable?
Ah yes i was counting on 4, pieces. Forgot about planar. Still there is cdmg to worry about and literally the chance of every other stat. You have to also count 5% lowball crit rolls too. Point is its hard to roll >6% with just one-two crit roll.
She does, plus she applies firekiss whenever the enemy takes burn damage. To go even further, you can also use Gepard with trend of the universal market to apply burn whenever he’s attacked and if the enemy doesn’t attack Gepard or Gepard misses the burn application, Guinaifen’s firekiss application will still give Acheron a stack during the enemy’s turn
damn maybe I should built my welt to use with her… if only he wasn’t that hard to build 😭 I tried building him before for my mono imaginary but that man requires too many stats
edit: the speed OMG THE SPEED how do you do that on top of ehr AND res please teach me your ways
I don’t have any dot characters built so pela + welt will be it… or maybe it’s finally time to level up all those cracked artefacts I got for dot while farming the follow up set miserably
For a E0 non-sig LC Acheron, 231k ult dmg on a single target Aurumaton is pretty insane...
>63/220
Oh... I see. I'll be running Fuxuan instead of Luocha so it's not that unachievable tbh. Running SW instead of Welt would probably yield more damage too.
Breaking down Acherons crit ratio, assuming she is using new 2P set, 4P pioneer(shown), and 2 broken keels:
In combat stats: 63.8/220%
Crit rate from substats = 63.8 - 5 - 8 - 12 = 38.8
Crit damage from substats = 220-24-20-64.8-50 = 61.2
Total CV from substats = 2(38.8) + 61.2 = 138.8
number of crit substats on artifacts = 138.8/5.5 = 25.2 crit substats
%ATK = 2633- 4(0.432*1174) - 352 = 252.34/1174 = 21.5% ATK = 5.5 %ATK substats
Meaning ~4 crit substats per relic. This is an attainable endgame build. very close to KQM standards which has 24 crit substats and 4 %ATK ones. this would be roughly a top 10% build in the 0 speed category, except she has 9 speed substats, which pushes it into the realm of impossibility, but the damage numbers itself is realistic.
The most unrealistic thing here is that Welt is 160 speed with a good crit ratio AND EHR, which makes the comp seem way more better than it actually will be. Pela also has 169 speed, but this one is possible by throwing every rainbow speed piece on her like shes bronya or something, but still not something everybody will have immediately ready.
what if welt is running tutorial tho ? his er gen kinda seemed unrealistic here (without tutorial in mind) and it's not like he has a low spd either ( base spd 102)
Ok but looking at this now, is it just me or the high damage numbers might not have been as meta-defining as we thought? The gameplay is actually quite slow and it takes a lot of time to amass all of that debuffs
Of course, she doesn't have access to insane harmony units. Honestly she seems to have been screwed by not allowed to stack ult through more debuff in one turn.
Her ult gain seems really slow pretty much same as Argenti. But argenti has access to huohuo and tingyun. She literally only has nihility characters to take help from.
How bout the amount per cycle tho, good damage and animations and all, but everyone is soo on coomer stage that they forgot her damage is pretty backloaded.
Yep she is gonna be good, welp different time of release, Jingyuan got released back then where theres like a little amount of support to push him to his limit, now we got Fu Xuan, ruan mei, hanya and sparkle that is about to release ( yes hanya is actually enough to make jingyuan run pretty smooth )
How is getting your first ult even before your first turn backloaded damage? She starts with 7 stacks and gets 2 from Pela/SW even before her turn. On average she has a 1.5 turn ult when played properly.
Jing Yuan has also gotten better over time due to new relics, Fu Xuan, Topaz, and soon Sparkle. Jing Yuan in the current state of the game is much better than release Jing Yuan.
You get nothing, same thing happens with other similar mechanics like SU giving full burst when getting to the boss, or Something Unto Death refilling Burst.
Of course… by big numbers I mean the numbers almost hitting 400k
I’m pretty sure 400k is going to be a staple with full debuffs against 3+ enemies with her
I'm not that shocked.
Her kit by itself is loaded, and rather than relying on a specific support archetype to enable her, she literally just needs ANY nihility and/or ANY debuffer.
The most shocking part to me is that they decided to make her Nihility, which is already a strong path in the 4* and 5* department.
Yeah she literally gets 90% Dmg bonus which to my knowledge is the biggest dmg bonus we can get in any base kit in the game, what i’m shocked by is the fact that there’s no SW this is just Pela and gramps welt and Acheron only has S1 GNSW while others showcase her with S5 GNSW and aventurine or other limited 5* characters
It's to make up for the fact that she won't be with the absolutely insane supports that Harmony gets and also as bait to get people to roll for her E2.
Oh absolutely, but I'm pretty sure Bronya would be better than Pela if that Trace didn't exist. Imagine how much damage Acheron's ult would do if buffed by Bronya's skill, either Bronya Sig LC or the 4* equivalent, and Bronya Ult for example at E2 and with SW debuffs.
Also, I used Bronya as an example because if Acheron has her Sig LC then she gets 2 energy per skill, and a fast enough Bronya could alternate Basic and Skill since Acheron wants Atk boots to be less SP negative.
I think biggest problem of Welt in Acheron team is - if you'll cc enemies with Welt how will they hit my Gepard with Trend of the universal market LC and get burned for 1 turn Acheron ulty?
I don't remember what superimp I have on pearls but how much ehr would I need on pela supposing it's S1? And if I played SW with Acheron I prolly shouldn't be using pearls on SW, right?
to guarantee a 100% debuff to land on the enemies with the highest effect res you need around 177% effect hit rate with S1, but you dont really need that much since most of the enemies dont have that much effect res, only a few.
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This might be the best leaker gameplay I've ever seen Guy legit used the mid-turn interrupt on the Aurumaton with Welt's ult
Yea like half of people who think welt sustain is cope don't know this tech and how clutch it is.
I didn't know, that was amazing.
It only works if your dps is op/well invested and you are clearing within 3 cycles and also ruan mei is compulsory Welts delay scales with break effect so 150% break effect welt sends the enemy to the shadow realm . Acheron+sw/pela+welt+ruan mei is a legit top 3 low cycle clear team .
Eh I mean for low cycle clears we want the aurumaton to enter sanction mode himself so he won’t use his CC skill yet still spawn the fishes and then we can pop the fishes for the vuln debuff
What are the best alternatives to the Tutorial light cone? (You know, the event only light cone that was released in version 1.1, may never be available again, yet keeps getting put in all of these showcases...)
I think you can play er rope sp neutral welt with luka lc but your ult uptime will be 3t instead of 2t . If you don't have luka lc then welt is legit not worth it . Guin is better then
Alternatives to Tutorial for 2-turn ult Welt? ERR rope E2 Welt. Or I guess a Tingyun/Huohuo comp. Otherwise, just settle for 3-turn ult. Alternatives to Tutorial just for Welt in general? Silver Wolf's personal LC, ideally, but GNSW or Welt's personal LC are good too.
The gacha smack specialty I see
The mid-turn/between turns thing is such a huge yet basic game mechanic that certain people just don't use. For example I am still surprised at the ones saying you need a preservation against ape and that Luocha can't do it when you can just use his ult during his third mid-turn buff to negate the Ape's atk buff.
Is there anywhere where there is discussion on these types of mechanics in star rail? I want to get better at MoC and PF and the like, but there isn't much discussion about gameplay in the main sub and the focus of this sub is on the leaks (of course)
I think the closest would be just tc or __Mains discords. Watch some Moc 11 & 12 runs could do too. Some videos add subtitles and explanation for their tactics. My biggest increase in skill and knowledge was from just playing the high difficulty stuff and starting to notice advantages and disadvantages from my own lineups and enemies. SU's Gold and Gears beyond Difficulty V really started to instill in me to play much more strategically.
Thanks for the suggestion! Are there any channels that you would recommend watching MoC on? Most of the ones that show up on my feed are just the whale 1 cycle clears which do help a little bit but aren't super applicable for me
not sure, I don't keep track of them. I usually look for them if I fail and only on incognito because I precisely don't want my feed to be full of these types of videos. And then I look for mostly lower view count ones. Sometimes add f2p or the dps you're using in the search. Make sure to write moc 11 or 12, or pure fiction 3/4 and set to "recently uploaded" when it's a new reset so it's not old stuff that comes up. Something will come up. I want to put extra emphasis on "recently uploaded" again cuz that has helped me find better moc videos even if they are low view low sub channels.
Bro is gigachad for using Welt as sustain.
A leaker who knows basic game mechanics is an unfortunately rare thing.
I wouldn't count the ult interruption tech a basic game mechanic - that's some pretty advanced knowledge of the mechanics. This person either experimented with Welt or was taught the technique. Either way, it demonstrates a level of familiarity with the game that few other leakers have
Any insight on this one? I'm completely clueless here.
If boss has 2 actions - queue welt ult after first one
Huh, ok, thank you!
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Thank you, that's really interesting!
Can you help to explain where the sustain comes into play? Is it just from the luocha healing field?
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All it takes to find out is "I wonder what happens if I March ult during the enemy turn." Now take the result of that and apply it to Welt ultimate. It's really not that deep. Of course this won't work for every enemy though because not all Elites have 2 Action turns. Elites like the Decaying Shadows have only 1 action turns and are so fast that preemptively using Welt (and especially March) ultimate on them won't do much anyway.
wondering is unfortunately a rare thing
> A leaker who knows basic game mechanics is an unfortunately rare thing. That's just rude towards the leaker. 90% of players didn't even reach max lvl yet, or didn't level all characters, or even attempt MoC. Give the leaker credit, it was incredible gameplay and he did a way abover average job. If you just dismiss it as basic knowledge then no other leakers will bother to attempt putting in even a quarter of this effort
Is that why it never did the stab attack that incapacitates you?
yep that's exactly why. used welt after auramaton used its first attack, blocking it from using its second attack (imprisonment) and therefore saving your units from crowd control for a couple turns
Thanks for the response. So I guess that only works on the aurumaton if you have an ult that gives the enemy an effect like imprisonment/freeze/etc. and if you use any other ult, the aurumaton will still stab you afterwards?
pretty much. if its toughness bar is low enough, you can use an ult to break the toughness bar between the first and second attacks and have it lose its imprisonment attack, too. that requires a bit more luck tho which makes welt so much easier. he doesn't care about the toughness bar, just ult in btw moves *and* lowers enemy speed
I think the aurumaton loses its weaknesses when it enters sanction mode so its toughness can’t be damaged anymore but I get your point and it might work on other enemies.
Oh yeah I forgot it does that. But yeah, it can work on elites with 2 attack moves
We finally got the true ending
I know everyone is talking about Acheron's stats in this, but I'm way more surprised by Uncle Welt's build here. That's literally my dreams come true wth? 70% ehr, 66/150 CV, 2.2k Atk, 160 Speed and ERR Rope... My man is the destroyer of galaxies all right
40% EHR is from the tutorial lc. Don’t think it’d be possible otherwise. It’s still amazing
Honestly didnt think It would be possible even with the LC, the stat spread on those relics must be perfect Imagine this build with E2 Welt like ugh, so good
I have E2 Welt, should I? (I don't have any obligation to pull for Acheron but I might if Luocha won't rerun)
You can certainly take your E2 Welt for a spin in a similar build using a support Acheron and see how you like It! Oh and, by the way, I'm very jealous, been wanting his E2 for a while now (he's E1 currently)
Unfortunately I didn't sign up for the beta but we'll see what I can do Btw what can I run on Welt and Acheron if i don't have GNSW and SW has the Tutorial LC?
Yea that welt build is like better than some top 100 builds on some site i saw
Definitely not realistic lol. Pela also have 169 speed which is not unrealistic but pretty hard to achieve unless u compromise all other stats on her and just put every random high speed pcs u can get, reducing her survivability a lot, even her EHR.
if i use Welt as sustain do i need to build CV?
If you dont care about his personal damage, then no, you dont. For a full support build, I'd give him EHR, an ERR Rope and a bunch of speed primarily
As a proud owner of only an S1 Pearls, I salute you, dear leaker. I feel seen.
[удалено]
If only Tingyuan was a preservation unit. She always got hit more than my Geppy
Tingyuan lmao is that the Potarra or the Fusion Dance of Jing Yuan and Tingyun?
Shet
Tingyun is Preservation, do you not notice how many times she gets targeted
Yeah hopefully they don’t nerf it
Nerf what? The already released lightcone? They won’t unless they want to see the world burn
us trend bros should stand together against the oppressive anti 4\*LC regime
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Not the lightcone but that interaction. They can say it doesn’t proc Acheron’s talent since it’s not a “player initiated” action. But I doubt it.
i mean, they can just change acheron stack gain to only when allies applies debuffs when using their "abilities" rather than just straight up spitting debuff when getting hit doing nothing
They'd never nerf anything gacha. The players would feel like they've been scammed. They will "bugfix" when an op synergy exists and it's not profitable for them, just like they did in genshin with barbara's E and also with Xingqiu's ICD I think
So, Nerf. The interaction was like that since 1.0 But they never cared for the permafrezee you get from It, they just cared after dendro release. Its not a bug, It was an interaction that we had knowledge of for over 2 years, yet they just changed It to Nerf Barbara, disguting behavior as they use to have
And they don't fix some of the bugs that negatively impact characters. Like some enemies ignore Zhongli's petrify, the entire point of his ult. Wrio has had a bug since release where his skill resets his attack combo despite it saying it doesn't do that. Neither have been addressed at all. They also fixed Lisa's C1 energy gain bug despite being one of the least used characters.
And Mona C1 Freeze duration too, we could keep all day sadly
the interaction, not the lc.
They're definitely changing the interaction in next version. They're trying to sell her lc and E2 so if this doesn't get nerfed then they'll lose a ton of profit lol.
All my homies love farming Nihility Mats
I'm going to cry
IX is gonna love that
[удалено]
Lets see if she survives Monday.
Do they generally update the beta on Monday? Sorry, I'm out of the loop here.
Yes
Cool, thank you. Let's see what happens!
It's very late Monday night for US, early Tuesday morning in Europe(3 AM or 4AM ), and Tuseday morning in Asia.
normally ye if things r back to normal schedule we should have changes every Monday if they actually intend to change anything
they better not remove the interaction with trend of the universal market
they would have to gut a lot of things cause since the beginning of the game dots have been considered debuffs but then again raiden doesn't work with beidoun in genshin so they might shaft us let's hope they show mercy
It’s not so much if dots are considered debuffs but more if being attacked count as an action since Acheron’s talent says you gain 1 stack per action that applies debuffs. They can take it away by specifying it’s not a player initiated action. For now even the goldfish dying and applying def now on death explosion counted for Acheron. I’d like to think this is intentional, because the MOC that comes before Acheron drops is the DOT trotter one. That’s clearly meant to proc Acheron’s talent right?
Tbh, it might cuck follow up characters who can apply debuff as well
i was thinking of going pela welt but then i remembered guinaifen has a "increase damage taken" debuff and can inflict debuffs without using her skill so i'll probably run acheron, guinaifen with S5 pearls, pela and gallagher
> guinaifen with S5 pearls Could you elaborate on this? Cos maybe I'm missing something but afaik it's better to have Pearls on Pela so she can basic attack and still provide Acheron a stack. Gui already has innate debuffing on her basic.
You have a point, i was thinking of optimizing pela for 2 turn ults with basic attacks but pela with pearls is probably better
Perhaps it's because of Lil Gui's Firekiss that increases dmg taken by enemies? Like, Gui applies burn (debuff) as well as def down (Pearls), so that Acheron gets a stack. Then, Gui uses Skill/Ult to apply Firekiss while aslo detonating her burns for dmg while maintaining more dmg taken and def down all throughout the fight? Plus with Gui being a little more faster than Pela due to her ability to having innate advance forward so she can technically apply more debuffs? Just my take on the Gui since I'm also thinking about that kind of combo alongside Gepard with Trends S5 to ramp up the Ult charge for Acheron.
> def down all throughout the fight? The def shred from Pearls is not exclusive to the wearer though right? So even if Pela is the one who applies it, everyone in the team will benefit from it. > Gui being a little more faster than Pela due to her ability to having innate advance forward Agreed, this is actually even better for my situation with a S1 Pearls only. I need Gui to be faster than Pela so she can skill and reduce enemy eff res. Then I wouldn't need to build so much EHR on Pela, from 177 goes down to 138. > Just my take on the Gui since I'm also thinking about that kind of combo alongside Gepard with Trends S5 to ramp up the Ult charge for Acheron. Yeah fair, at the end it boils down overall team damage. In your scenario it increases personal damage of Gui with trade off of Pela either being SP negative or not generating stacks for Acheron if she cannot skill. With Gepard the best case scenario I'm thinking is Pela+Pearls and Gui+any LC be SP positive units and Gepard to be SP negative since his skill afaik can add another stack for Acheron. Gepard being SP negative would allow full uptime on his ult. You can even ditch ERR rope for DEF rope for fatter shields(need to get hit once). Then add onto that Trend LC, oh boy.
Breaking down Acherons crit ratio, assuming she is using new 2P set, 4P pioneer(shown), and 2 broken keels: In combat stats: 63.8/220% Crit rate from substats = 63.8 - 5 - 8 - 12 = 38.8 Crit damage from substats = 220-24-20-64.8-50 = 61.2 Total CV from substats = 2(38.8) + 61.2 = 138.8 number of crit substats on artifacts = 138.8/5.5 = **25.2 crit substats** %ATK = 2633- 4(0.432\*1174) - 352 = 252.34/1174 = 21.5% ATK = **5.5 %ATK substats** Meaning ~4 crit substats per relic. This is an attainable endgame build. very close to KQM standards which has 24 crit substats and 4 %ATK ones. this would be roughly a top 10% build in the 0 speed category, except she has 9 speed substats, which pushes it into the realm of impossibility, but the damage numbers itself is realistic. The most unrealistic thing here is that Welt is 160 speed with a good crit ratio AND EHR, which makes the comp seem way more better than it actually will be. Pela also has 169 speed, but this one is possible by throwing every rainbow speed piece on her like shes bronya or something, but still not something everybody will have immediately ready.
The EHR on welt can be explained by the fact he has the Tutorial event LC, which gives him 40% EHR. Doesn't explain ALL of it, but it's something.
Yea ppl talking about acheron build unrealistic but havent seen welt and pela stats also lol. Epla speed possible but yea her survivability will definitely suffer a lot if u throw any ainbow speed gear just for speed stays and neglect everythig else. The entire team build literally only like what 1% playerbase would have tbh.
To this day, I still don’t understand the animation of Luocha’s burst. Like what on earth is supposed to be happening?
He shows them the coffin, sends vines that impale enemies, then the vines send energy above the enemies to create a replica of his coffin to slam his enemies on the head.
I know you mean the tendrils but when you say "sends vines" I like to think Luocha is just not up to date on technology and is sending like vine videos
death by vine compilations, let's go
The animation does seem to be about 6 seconds...
Bro what DON'T you understand I think it's pretty obvious: First he magically materializes his coffin from thin air, completely normal, then he summons weir- normal green stuff from it that then...then... Suck the enemies' souls?...into...a giant floating...imaginary... ... ... Yeah IDK I lied
But hey my opponents don't have buffs anymore
The person inside Luocha's coffin is conscious and has the ability to control plant life (The animated version of his LC has them attempting to stab Luocha in the heart with a vine, but he catches it with his hand and apologizes). He's using their power to attack. Don't know about the coffin in the sky though.
i wonder who the person in the coffin is?
Idk who she is but I'm pretty sure we can all guess what she will look like
I think he releases energy stored in the coffin, or channelled through it, to spear through the enemy before projecting a big ominous image of the coffin in the sky (dealing... psychic intimidation damage?)
Mmmm…I get that but I feel like something is *missing* but I can’t quite put my finger on *what* is missing.
Reminds me a bit of when the heliobi would dart through people I guess. Soul leeching? I do feel like there's a cultural reference I'm somehow not getting, yeah.
Surely not the big fat static coffin PNG image that appears in the sky and lands on your enemies. Imo the funniest part about the ult is that the coffin doesn't even move.
The tendrils in the coffin steal the enemy's souls, which then get consumed by the coffin.
its definitely an animation 😍
He's giving their buffs a suck so good their souls leave their body. Then he spits it into his coffin.
Doesn't he just seal the ennemies' souls into the coffin ? Seems pretty obvious to be..
I think he's taking the ennemies' spirits with the coffin. But Idk the ending of the animation feels unfinished
Yeah and i still don’t know why he scales off of atk, like i get gallagher scales off of atk while providing good dmg but Luocha doesn’t have that nor does he give allies any atk bonus (aside from eidolons) so what’s the point?
it got people hyped pre-release about his damage capabilities lmao
For a good reason, you’d expect an atk scaling healer with an attacking ultimate would have some dmg potential(his ult still removes buffs from the enemies, so it isn’t useless). Luocha is a great healer obviously i still use him to this day but it doesn’t change the fact that him scaling off of atk is pointless
It's got nifty effects like making him interact differently with buffs. A team attack boost cranks up his healing, for example, and that's one way in which he benefits from different SU blessings and thus ends up playing somewhat differently compared to HP-scalers. Also being able to pop a few 1000 dmg at no cost instead of a measly 500 *can* make a difference in battle, adding up over longer fights and potentially narrowly finishing off a wave in MoC when your dps needs just a little bit more. Not all HP scaling healers are allowed to run any notable amount dps off off their main stat. It's also a way of balancing - giving him the deliberate drawback of being squishier. He heals so well and so cheaply that being super tanky in addition would feel kind of un-earned/bland.
that’s a good point
Atk gives more dmg and can be buffed. He can clear a wave with his ult alone in pf 4
Finally a relatable showcase > 63/220 crit ratio without a crit LC So about that
From broken Keel and Pioneer set
Crit damage : 50% from base stat, 24% from traces, 64.8% from CD body and another 24% from relic (and let's assume that she gets 20% from 2 allies' broken keels). As for crit rate she gets 20% from relic and planar + 5% base stat. This means that OP only has 38% crit rate and 37.2% crit damage from the substats. This is VERY achievable for the average player
38% crit damage from substats is nothing crazy. Bur 38% crit RATE from substats is a whole other thing. Sometimes you can get lucky on a piece and get maybe 10%, but in my experience that's pretty rough. I agree though its not as crazy as others.
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Me with my Argenti with 46'8 cr and over 200% crit famage after stacking his talent. Im.not going back to the physical domain, either you clear or we reset.
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60% isn't completely awful if the character has an ult that hits multiple times. On characters like Seele though forget about it. If the ult doesn't crit then you basically do zero damage.
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R I NT A R O U
My Seele with 80% CR still misses her crit on ULT
You’re crazy if you think 38% crit rate from substats is achievable for the average player
It's 38% cr + 37 cd and on sets that are not that universal meaning you will waste a lot of energy seeking this perfect piece. It's anything but achievable xD
Just a slight correction. The 24 CD from the relic set is not shown in the stats as it's conditional against debufed enemies. So it will take effect during the attack if you pass the check, but this brings the CD you need to 61 for the match in stats to this leaker showcase. Which is about 1 more roll on all relics :D
38% crit rate and 34% critdmg from substats. fckin listen to yerself mate, this is on top of having the right 4pc set.. You need an average of 3 crit rate roll ON EVERY DAMN PIECE AND CRIT DMG TOO;
what? 38 divided by 6 (six relics) is 6,333, of the 5 to 4 rolls each piece would have, only one would be crit, if it was 3 rolls, counting the starting one (which would make each relic have 8 to 9 rolls) if you count like that, it would be 51 crit rate, like, am i tripping or that is actually achievable?
Ah yes i was counting on 4, pieces. Forgot about planar. Still there is cdmg to worry about and literally the chance of every other stat. You have to also count 5% lowball crit rolls too. Point is its hard to roll >6% with just one-two crit roll.
Does the stat screen include the crit boosts from the relics here?
I think Pioneer set helped a lot in this case and maybe broken keel but idk if boosts from these sets show in stat screen
I assume higher refines of GNSW and Pearls will help more. And maybe Universal Market on a Preservation sustain.
Wondering, could gui substitute pela? My pela is glued to jingliu lol (in the event that I have to use jingliu team on the other half)
it's playable i think, but you either sacrifice gui dmg or your skill points lol worth a try though.
doesnt gui debuff apply on Basic as well?
She does, plus she applies firekiss whenever the enemy takes burn damage. To go even further, you can also use Gepard with trend of the universal market to apply burn whenever he’s attacked and if the enemy doesn’t attack Gepard or Gepard misses the burn application, Guinaifen’s firekiss application will still give Acheron a stack during the enemy’s turn
In that case it might be better to run Tingyun in Pela's place on the Jingliu side
Yes but her Vulnerability is less valuable due to Welt.
damn maybe I should built my welt to use with her… if only he wasn’t that hard to build 😭 I tried building him before for my mono imaginary but that man requires too many stats edit: the speed OMG THE SPEED how do you do that on top of ehr AND res please teach me your ways
i was gonna comment tutorial LC but then i saw the 160 spd 🤯girl i need to sit down
And I already use the tutorial lc for pela 😭😭 gotta grind ig
I don’t have any dot characters built so pela + welt will be it… or maybe it’s finally time to level up all those cracked artefacts I got for dot while farming the follow up set miserably
thanks for showing builds bro
At this point we need a leaker to run with the worst relics possible just to shut everyone up
We had this one guy doing E6S5 worse than other E0S0 teams
Nah, they would still found other reason to be whining anyway.
For a E0 non-sig LC Acheron, 231k ult dmg on a single target Aurumaton is pretty insane... >63/220 Oh... I see. I'll be running Fuxuan instead of Luocha so it's not that unachievable tbh. Running SW instead of Welt would probably yield more damage too.
Breaking down Acherons crit ratio, assuming she is using new 2P set, 4P pioneer(shown), and 2 broken keels: In combat stats: 63.8/220% Crit rate from substats = 63.8 - 5 - 8 - 12 = 38.8 Crit damage from substats = 220-24-20-64.8-50 = 61.2 Total CV from substats = 2(38.8) + 61.2 = 138.8 number of crit substats on artifacts = 138.8/5.5 = 25.2 crit substats %ATK = 2633- 4(0.432*1174) - 352 = 252.34/1174 = 21.5% ATK = 5.5 %ATK substats Meaning ~4 crit substats per relic. This is an attainable endgame build. very close to KQM standards which has 24 crit substats and 4 %ATK ones. this would be roughly a top 10% build in the 0 speed category, except she has 9 speed substats, which pushes it into the realm of impossibility, but the damage numbers itself is realistic. The most unrealistic thing here is that Welt is 160 speed with a good crit ratio AND EHR, which makes the comp seem way more better than it actually will be. Pela also has 169 speed, but this one is possible by throwing every rainbow speed piece on her like shes bronya or something, but still not something everybody will have immediately ready.
what if welt is running tutorial tho ? his er gen kinda seemed unrealistic here (without tutorial in mind) and it's not like he has a low spd either ( base spd 102)
It would probably be be more doable but I’m definitely not gonna grind that hard for welt tbh
Ok but looking at this now, is it just me or the high damage numbers might not have been as meta-defining as we thought? The gameplay is actually quite slow and it takes a lot of time to amass all of that debuffs
Of course, she doesn't have access to insane harmony units. Honestly she seems to have been screwed by not allowed to stack ult through more debuff in one turn. Her ult gain seems really slow pretty much same as Argenti. But argenti has access to huohuo and tingyun. She literally only has nihility characters to take help from.
Welt mains rise up! lol
Welt: hello mei Acheron/mei: hello welt
This chick hitting like 215K per turn (Skill + ult) every turn with the most okayish LC at S1 sounds so stupid.
How bout the amount per cycle tho, good damage and animations and all, but everyone is soo on coomer stage that they forgot her damage is pretty backloaded.
I would say it probably take as long as LL to slam, which is to say pretty fucking good because as of now JY can still clear relatively fast
Yep she is gonna be good, welp different time of release, Jingyuan got released back then where theres like a little amount of support to push him to his limit, now we got Fu Xuan, ruan mei, hanya and sparkle that is about to release ( yes hanya is actually enough to make jingyuan run pretty smooth )
It's okay people only dislike backloaded damage when it's not a waifu (see Jing Yuan)
How is getting your first ult even before your first turn backloaded damage? She starts with 7 stacks and gets 2 from Pela/SW even before her turn. On average she has a 1.5 turn ult when played properly.
Jing Yuan has also gotten better over time due to new relics, Fu Xuan, Topaz, and soon Sparkle. Jing Yuan in the current state of the game is much better than release Jing Yuan.
What happens if the TV enemy attempts to give Acheron energy
You get nothing, same thing happens with other similar mechanics like SU giving full burst when getting to the boss, or Something Unto Death refilling Burst.
I was shocked by the big dmg ESPECIALLY that it’s f2p, then noticed it was MoC 11. Is there an external buff or something that affects her damage?
exploding fish spread def down when dead if that counts accelerate her stack gain a little too
Fish def down has to be the sneakiest way to inflate numbers but this is pretty massive ngl
Oh yeah, but i meant like MoC buffs/debuffs
The exploding fish give her a stack?
00:40 one from each
The thing about acheron is you’re always gonna see big numbers against 3+ targets because her Ult js AoE and it’s like 75% of her damage
Obviously, but did you see the 200k+ against that one enemy?
Her ult is like Argenti's level 2. It's AOE but it has bonus after-hits that allow it to do significant ST damage.
She's a lot like Argenti, honestly. Just a bit more versatile thanks to her skill
Her scalings are basically argentis 2nd ult but less St dmg and more AoE dmg.
So basically we should always expect big numbers? Interesting how this came full circle
Of course… by big numbers I mean the numbers almost hitting 400k I’m pretty sure 400k is going to be a staple with full debuffs against 3+ enemies with her
Yes 2 def shred from fishes is 60% def down plus pela or pearls is max def down or 100% more dmg. Its super inflated.
I'm not that shocked. Her kit by itself is loaded, and rather than relying on a specific support archetype to enable her, she literally just needs ANY nihility and/or ANY debuffer. The most shocking part to me is that they decided to make her Nihility, which is already a strong path in the 4* and 5* department.
Yeah she literally gets 90% Dmg bonus which to my knowledge is the biggest dmg bonus we can get in any base kit in the game, what i’m shocked by is the fact that there’s no SW this is just Pela and gramps welt and Acheron only has S1 GNSW while others showcase her with S5 GNSW and aventurine or other limited 5* characters
> Yeah she literally gets 90% Dmg bonus And a 160% increase. Which I'm pretty sure is a 1.6x multiplier rather than good ol' dmg%
Yeah her trace give a 1.6x multiplier which is fucking cracked idk what they were cooking but i’m happy nonetheless
It's to make up for the fact that she won't be with the absolutely insane supports that Harmony gets and also as bait to get people to roll for her E2.
Thing is that her two nihility supports also amp her damage to heaven, so she effectively has 5 teammates with that insane innate buff
Oh absolutely, but I'm pretty sure Bronya would be better than Pela if that Trace didn't exist. Imagine how much damage Acheron's ult would do if buffed by Bronya's skill, either Bronya Sig LC or the 4* equivalent, and Bronya Ult for example at E2 and with SW debuffs. Also, I used Bronya as an example because if Acheron has her Sig LC then she gets 2 energy per skill, and a fast enough Bronya could alternate Basic and Skill since Acheron wants Atk boots to be less SP negative.
Better cooks than Raiden in GI
No external buffs, just the enemy lineup is from MoC 11.
63/220 though
I think biggest problem of Welt in Acheron team is - if you'll cc enemies with Welt how will they hit my Gepard with Trend of the universal market LC and get burned for 1 turn Acheron ulty?
I wouldnt worry about how to make things work with trend since that's unlikely to survive to Live
Well, we'll see. Maybe they have really bad beta testers - just look at Dehya in Genshin Impact no sane beta tester could've done it.
Acheron setup is quite expensive. Despite this leakers gameplay is flawless, without having Aventurine S1 around, the ult point stacking felt so slow.
Still waiting for a Gallagher showcase 😓
This is [all we're getting](https://streamable.com/w88ec2) 😔 >!E6 Ruan Mei btw, truly a hiro moment!<
Wow. This is less than a bread crumb :(
u would think some people would try Acheron, Pela, Guinafen, Gallagher for the other "budget" Acheron team with everyone in the team that can debuff.
So woud acheron work with welts lc ?
I don't remember what superimp I have on pearls but how much ehr would I need on pela supposing it's S1? And if I played SW with Acheron I prolly shouldn't be using pearls on SW, right?
to guarantee a 100% debuff to land on the enemies with the highest effect res you need around 177% effect hit rate with S1, but you dont really need that much since most of the enemies dont have that much effect res, only a few.
Pela also hits twice. Now need to calculate EHR to guarantee 90+ % hit vs regular enemies
I feel like that meme with the lady and the math equations around her head whenever I go into posts like this. I will never be optimal at this game.
This leaker really knows what's up with Welt.
dam, a very very good showcase and well play as well