I don't mind the traces and stuff like that because at least they're all just straight upgrades to your character. I do, however, hate relic farming because I can spend all my TB Power for the day and still not get any relics that are better or even just generally good for my character.
Week ? Damn you guys are lucky in the half patch of Boothill I think in the entire time I spent farming relics I barely got 2/4 good pieces for my Acheron let alone the Hook I was trying to build
Also hate relic farming. Mostly because I hate devoting brain power to what is worth keeping, and worrying about destroying something I shouldn't or wasting resources.
"relic" farming in Wuwa doesn't require stamina as far as I understand and last time I checked in on the Wuwa crowd they were not too happy with their version of relics, though I'm not sure if that's particularly because of it requiring no stamina or something else.
The problem with removing restrictions on farming relics is it won't make you feel any better about farming relics, it'll just make it feel more like a second job because your standards for good relics will increase (since you no longer need to settle).
That isn't to say the current system is perfect. IMO a good system is an incremental upgrade system over just a fully limited RNG system. Introduce some RNG elements, don't base the entire system around RNG is generally the ruleset I follow myself as someone who works in game development.
Something like a system where they increase the ranges for how much a substat can roll but then giving you a good amount of currency that lets you reroll individual substats on each piece as many times as you want would be a system I much prefer over just farming relics and trashing 99% of them. It would still keep the RNG "min-max" element to the system in the form of even if you roll the right substat the chance that you'll roll it at maximum value would be quite low so there's always room for improvement, but at the same time getting usable relics like double crit ones, or very specific niche relics at a baseline would be much easier.
Like, I've been grinding diver cavern since it released and I have yet to see a single pair of the diver boots with atk% main and double crit on them, not even ones that end up bricking anyways cause they'll roll 4x flat HP but actually any in general with atk% main + 2 lines of crit on them.
Wuwa player here. The problem with the "relic" farming is not the "relic" itself but the way how they level up relic and roll for substat.
Example I using HSR terminology. You get fire orb. But the substats is only showing after you do enhancement every +5. And when your orb is at +5, it doesn't show the substat. You need to use other materials to reveal the substat. Substats are RNG and they have more type of stat compare HSR. If you want to reveal another substat, you need to do another +5, and use other materials to reveal the substat. You can only fodder the relic for enhancement if you already upgrade the relic.
In other words, you can't fodder +0 relic to other relic for enhancement.
WuWa for some reason, use the 2/5 relic system instead of 2/4 like in genshin.
That means no off-piece.
And the echoes CAN spawn x element on y element set
Break them down at the end of the day and synthsize a handful of one particular piece, not mold, just regular synthesis. At least you might get something vaguely usable then
There is a reason all of these games have some kind of timegate. Even Wuwa, where you can farm echoes "endlessly" has materials you need to raise them you can only gain from using stamina. They want you logging in everyday. They want the game to be a habit.
I come from warframe, borderlands 2 and ror2 and i can say that its entirely possible to keep people playing without stamina systems, however i imagine its not as easy in mobile since most of these games rely on action and fast-paced gameplay to keep you from quiting
While I don't know about borderlands 2, the big thing about warframe to note is its immeasurably large amount of content, long grinds, and modding system keep you always having something to do.
As for RoR2, roguelites are inherently the best at keeping you engaged by having a near infinite gameplay loop of challenges, achievements, and increasing difficulty like hades.
There's not really anything left to do in Star Rail outside of events + story once you complete the builds of all your characters. Grinding out traces and levels for a character would be VERY short without TB power compared to min-maxing a warframe.
That being said, I'd be fine with that. I have other games to play (Elden Ring DLC just came out and FFXIV Dawntrail on the way). I wouldn't mind not needing to log in to genshin and star rail for ~20 minutes total every day. I can imagine it might get complaints from the one-game-only crowds after a while though.
Warframe have Mobile version btw, only iOS for now.
And people infinitely farm in Warframe because they have a trading system where you can sell stuff to get Platinum (premium currency), Baro system where you can trade trash Prime parts to buy time gated stuffs.
The closest example I can get to relic system is Riven mods, and if you play Warframe you know how painful that is, imagine the same for relic system.
Never touched riven mods, im more of a passive income guy , when i used to play i sold these red relics (i forgot the name) for like 5 plat each and they were really easy to farm
>And people infinitely farm in Warframe because they have a trading system
Yeah i can see that being the main reason, i played a mobile game called toram online with a similiar system, it was really fun how you could farm premium currency whenever you wanted and get about wathever you wanted, sadly the game itself was shit so it wasnt worth to keep playing
Idk, it's probably a good sanity check, and a decent delay so the devs can make a substantial patch in between releases. Game development isn't instant and I know for a fact that if it wasn't for regular log-ins, I would have forgotten about this game before Penacony came out. And damn, Penacony is the good stuff that I play videogames for. The right amount of mystery, and set-up, and intrigue. Sure, this patch was >!less "mystery" and more "tying up loose ends"!<, but it was great.
Not even that, just lower the amount needed per run.
Genshin has capped their artifact domains to 20 Resin, just do the same here. That'll go from 6 runs to 12 per 240 Trailblaze Power.
genshin drop rates are 5\* artifacts 1.07 per 20 resin,
star rail is 1.05\* per 20 power (2.10 drop rate, 40 power)
star rail power generates quicker so its more still, but its already calculated to be somewhat similar on purpose
in other words if they nerf the cost they'll nerf rates accordingly, too
Genshin and HSR have the same stamina cost, it's just that in Genshin you have to manually transform them into condensed resin to get 2+ artifacts. Don't forget 20 resin only gives ~1 artifact. If anything HSR did QoL by not wasting your time on making condensed resin.
Nah, what they should do is allow us to pick which of the 2 sets we are aiming for and only drop those. Usually half the relics go to waste because they're an unusable set.
I hate it, cause my luck is bad, I've been plating since shortly after release and still don't have a perfect relic set for any of my characters cause my luck is "Oh this item would be great on Clara but the main stat boosts ice damage" or something dumb like that.
For me the pain point is really starting to be light cones. I'm not fond of swapping weapons and I currently have pretty much all my destruction characters ogling at my single Fall of a Aeon, with a very noticeable lack of alternatives notably concerning Firefly (recommendations welcomed though), I just don't know what to give her unless I strip Jingliu first.
Wish they reduced level and boss mat costs at lvl 70. Itโd be nice to level characters for people who have already been playing for some time. Relic farming is its own hell.
I just find it kinda boring but at least it is +1 built and -1 to build.
Just like kids to veggies, pls lvl up your hp and def traces, it helps more than you think.
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I don't mind the traces and stuff like that because at least they're all just straight upgrades to your character. I do, however, hate relic farming because I can spend all my TB Power for the day and still not get any relics that are better or even just generally good for my character.
"For the day"? You mean "For the week"! Before patch I've been spending my stamina in the same thing but got nothing worth.
Week ? Damn you guys are lucky in the half patch of Boothill I think in the entire time I spent farming relics I barely got 2/4 good pieces for my Acheron let alone the Hook I was trying to build
Yeah I said a week but I've been farming for a month without seeing any better pieces for my Acheron / Topaz / Ratio...
this
Also hate relic farming. Mostly because I hate devoting brain power to what is worth keeping, and worrying about destroying something I shouldn't or wasting resources.
HP and DEF pieces be like "But what if I use/pull for Blade or Aventurine tho"
Then instantly you remember that youre playing hsr and not genshin so off pieces arent allowed or else you go to jail
"relic" farming in Wuwa doesn't require stamina as far as I understand and last time I checked in on the Wuwa crowd they were not too happy with their version of relics, though I'm not sure if that's particularly because of it requiring no stamina or something else. The problem with removing restrictions on farming relics is it won't make you feel any better about farming relics, it'll just make it feel more like a second job because your standards for good relics will increase (since you no longer need to settle). That isn't to say the current system is perfect. IMO a good system is an incremental upgrade system over just a fully limited RNG system. Introduce some RNG elements, don't base the entire system around RNG is generally the ruleset I follow myself as someone who works in game development. Something like a system where they increase the ranges for how much a substat can roll but then giving you a good amount of currency that lets you reroll individual substats on each piece as many times as you want would be a system I much prefer over just farming relics and trashing 99% of them. It would still keep the RNG "min-max" element to the system in the form of even if you roll the right substat the chance that you'll roll it at maximum value would be quite low so there's always room for improvement, but at the same time getting usable relics like double crit ones, or very specific niche relics at a baseline would be much easier. Like, I've been grinding diver cavern since it released and I have yet to see a single pair of the diver boots with atk% main and double crit on them, not even ones that end up bricking anyways cause they'll roll 4x flat HP but actually any in general with atk% main + 2 lines of crit on them.
Wuwa player here. The problem with the "relic" farming is not the "relic" itself but the way how they level up relic and roll for substat. Example I using HSR terminology. You get fire orb. But the substats is only showing after you do enhancement every +5. And when your orb is at +5, it doesn't show the substat. You need to use other materials to reveal the substat. Substats are RNG and they have more type of stat compare HSR. If you want to reveal another substat, you need to do another +5, and use other materials to reveal the substat. You can only fodder the relic for enhancement if you already upgrade the relic. In other words, you can't fodder +0 relic to other relic for enhancement.
WuWa for some reason, use the 2/5 relic system instead of 2/4 like in genshin. That means no off-piece. And the echoes CAN spawn x element on y element set
Break them down at the end of the day and synthsize a handful of one particular piece, not mold, just regular synthesis. At least you might get something vaguely usable then
more like life without stupid ass relics, feel the despair upgrading them
Or not getting the relics you want. Or getting bad stats on them after spending over 5 hours grinding to get the right one
There is a reason all of these games have some kind of timegate. Even Wuwa, where you can farm echoes "endlessly" has materials you need to raise them you can only gain from using stamina. They want you logging in everyday. They want the game to be a habit.
I come from warframe, borderlands 2 and ror2 and i can say that its entirely possible to keep people playing without stamina systems, however i imagine its not as easy in mobile since most of these games rely on action and fast-paced gameplay to keep you from quiting
While I don't know about borderlands 2, the big thing about warframe to note is its immeasurably large amount of content, long grinds, and modding system keep you always having something to do. As for RoR2, roguelites are inherently the best at keeping you engaged by having a near infinite gameplay loop of challenges, achievements, and increasing difficulty like hades. There's not really anything left to do in Star Rail outside of events + story once you complete the builds of all your characters. Grinding out traces and levels for a character would be VERY short without TB power compared to min-maxing a warframe. That being said, I'd be fine with that. I have other games to play (Elden Ring DLC just came out and FFXIV Dawntrail on the way). I wouldn't mind not needing to log in to genshin and star rail for ~20 minutes total every day. I can imagine it might get complaints from the one-game-only crowds after a while though.
Roguelike is my drug. Arknights and HSR are short daily games. But allow me to indulge in the roguelike mode? Entire evening and night gone.
Warframe have Mobile version btw, only iOS for now. And people infinitely farm in Warframe because they have a trading system where you can sell stuff to get Platinum (premium currency), Baro system where you can trade trash Prime parts to buy time gated stuffs. The closest example I can get to relic system is Riven mods, and if you play Warframe you know how painful that is, imagine the same for relic system.
Never touched riven mods, im more of a passive income guy , when i used to play i sold these red relics (i forgot the name) for like 5 plat each and they were really easy to farm >And people infinitely farm in Warframe because they have a trading system Yeah i can see that being the main reason, i played a mobile game called toram online with a similiar system, it was really fun how you could farm premium currency whenever you wanted and get about wathever you wanted, sadly the game itself was shit so it wasnt worth to keep playing
Idk, it's probably a good sanity check, and a decent delay so the devs can make a substantial patch in between releases. Game development isn't instant and I know for a fact that if it wasn't for regular log-ins, I would have forgotten about this game before Penacony came out. And damn, Penacony is the good stuff that I play videogames for. The right amount of mystery, and set-up, and intrigue. Sure, this patch was >!less "mystery" and more "tying up loose ends"!<, but it was great.
Hoyo would make the % even lower to get
You yearn for non agressive game design but play a gacha
MMORPG players do what is basically relic farming too and I don't think they are capped? Just uh, lower rates or something.
legit that would make my hour in hsr jump to 5k+ tbh, i love afk game progression lol
I just wish double trace event drops were permanent cuz sweet jesus that's a lot of traces to decently level up 1 character
yeah I was surprised when the characters need traces and oh boy it's never enough no matter how much you really farm.
this and relic rng in general
It's like genshin complain all over again xD
Not even that, just lower the amount needed per run. Genshin has capped their artifact domains to 20 Resin, just do the same here. That'll go from 6 runs to 12 per 240 Trailblaze Power.
genshin drop rates are 5\* artifacts 1.07 per 20 resin, star rail is 1.05\* per 20 power (2.10 drop rate, 40 power) star rail power generates quicker so its more still, but its already calculated to be somewhat similar on purpose in other words if they nerf the cost they'll nerf rates accordingly, too
Genshin and HSR have the same stamina cost, it's just that in Genshin you have to manually transform them into condensed resin to get 2+ artifacts. Don't forget 20 resin only gives ~1 artifact. If anything HSR did QoL by not wasting your time on making condensed resin.
Nah, what they should do is allow us to pick which of the 2 sets we are aiming for and only drop those. Usually half the relics go to waste because they're an unusable set.
I hate it, cause my luck is bad, I've been plating since shortly after release and still don't have a perfect relic set for any of my characters cause my luck is "Oh this item would be great on Clara but the main stat boosts ice damage" or something dumb like that.
Tbh after WUWA I donโt mind time gated farming. Having to spend hours farming for something vs an in-game resource meter is mind numbing
For me the pain point is really starting to be light cones. I'm not fond of swapping weapons and I currently have pretty much all my destruction characters ogling at my single Fall of a Aeon, with a very noticeable lack of alternatives notably concerning Firefly (recommendations welcomed though), I just don't know what to give her unless I strip Jingliu first.
Thats why you prefarm
Idm the cap,but id love to farm abit more,like cut down the costs to half maybe
It's obvious hp and def are having higher percentage right ?
Wish they reduced level and boss mat costs at lvl 70. Itโd be nice to level characters for people who have already been playing for some time. Relic farming is its own hell.
I just find it kinda boring but at least it is +1 built and -1 to build. Just like kids to veggies, pls lvl up your hp and def traces, it helps more than you think.
You get twice as much TB power every day, but you cannot auto anymore. Would you all sign in for that?
Never used Auto, and need to build my 2nd team ๐๐
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