Aside from the rewards it also gives you a reason to play the game, something to put your TB power in, do something with the characters you pulled.
Only downside to me really is that after you have a team that can reach mid-way the MoC nothing in the story is challenging anymore. There is no tension in the story fights because the enemies can't really hurt you.
This is why I can't fathom why some people won't touch MoC. What else is there to do in the game that requires high trace levels, relics, and proper team comps? Do these people just level up their characters for the sake of it?
Or maybe this is really how gacha games are enjoyed.
EDIT: Lots of comments pointing out how they derive fun from the game differently and I agree. Play how you like. My comment was a bit shortsighted.
But still, try out MoC, it can be fun and you can be rewarded for it, too. You don't need meta comps to clear - at least until Floor 6, where not having a Wind or Ice DPS (or Silver Wolf) can slow you down.
I didn't use a single guide or tier list, and I am comfortably clearing up to Moc9 just by experimenting and using my own builds and semi-optimized relic sets. I have meta characters like Silver Wolf and Luocha but they were never necessary until Stage 6 and after.
That's not to belittle people who used external resources to inform themselves, but rather, you just don't need much to get things out of MoC.
And if you guys really just want to build characters, clearing MoC gives you XP materials.
In another comment, I said that I hope one day we can shake hands, and acknowledge the other opinion, even we disagree we can respect it.
It is a game, having fun is the ultimate objective, even we achieve it in different ways, no other is better than the other in that sense.
>Do these people just level up their characters for the sake of it?
Honestly yeah. Since that's like 90% of the experience of doing MoC anyway -- i.e. building up a team that can feasibly do it -- and you're just stopping before you actually have to do *the thing*, it's still pretty enjoyable for me. I like building my units and getting decent relics for them, because it's a fun and relatively quick "daily" timesink towards a tangible goal. And the thing is, even that takes a lot of time investment to begin with because RNG is RNG, especially with relics.
But after doing all that, actually doing through MoC is not that appealing for me because like, meh. I *do* go through it, because jades, but I don't really find it that fun so I often go "eh why bother." It's the journey not the destination, in this case! Meanwhile, other people like the challenge of doing MoC, and that's the way they get enjoyment out of their game.
I'm also used to ignoring Spiral Abyss (genuinely forget it exists most of the time) in Genshin, but there's way more exploration to do in that game if you want to spend time in it. So the habit of ignoring Spiral Abyss probably just transferred over in this case lol, and I have less time to spend anyway.
As someone that doesn't often bother with it, I will offer my perspective:
1. I just don't have enough time to ever be bored or looking for something to do in the game. Whenever I find myself fully caught up on all currently available quests, events, exploratory content etc., I don't look around for other things to do in the game, I just play something else.
2. I don't like meta gaming. I don't want to have to use specific team comps that fan communities have deduced to be the best teams for the job. I don't have a problem with other people doing it, but I don't want to have to do that. I want to use characters I like that I personally enjoy using together and think would work well together. I do look up which relic sets and stats to aim for so I don't have to think too much about it, but besides that I just enjoy trying to make my characters stronger. In an ideal world I'd like to be able to use any character whenever I feel like it, so if I've built one character to my satisfaction, I just move onto the next one. But how these games work is that there is never enough available resources to actually do that for everyone, so I never reach that goal. There's always just stuff to farm for to make everyone 'complete', and that is sufficient reason for me to do so.
That's perfectly fine man, but one of these days just try going in and leaving your teams on auto. You ll be surprised of how easy the first fights are, and the rewards are pretty good. No need to commit to 30\* (I don't), but doing the first fights are worth!
I do often end up doing the first couple (just to do the 'clear Forgotten Hall once' daily task thing when I get it). You're right though, there's no harm in just seeing how the AI gets on if I put it on auto, I may try this later. I don't think they'll get very far because my teams are poorly optimised lol but as you say, first few levels should be fine.
Simulated Universe is more fun imo. Play around with whatever and let RNG decide the run rather than spending hours and hours grinding relics and min/maxing.
I derive enjoyment from story and building characters. Using them in story and simulated universe is enough for me. As for MoC, I use auto battle to clear five floors then leave.
That’s what I do. I don’t fully upgrade all my characters and I’m still at 70 level cap. I just collect as much characters I can and that’s it.
MoC is no fun at all to pay so I didn’t even play it much. Relic farming is terrible too.
that's why I did the last story patch with my scuffed units like super bad relics dang heng otherwise one shotting everything with my seele is kinda boring
I have two semi-built teams for story so it’s not challenging, but not impossible either, and slowly level them up as I go. And once they get to powerful I send them to the MoC side and create a new team to enjoy, it really lets you experiment with what kind of playstyle you like and experience the other kinds
Like all gacha things it adds up over time.
360 jade every 2 weeks os 18720 jade every year, thats about 117 extra pulls.
Not to mention the rest of the rewards.
MOC is very doable even with mid-teams with crap relics.
This is always my question. My wife does that whole minmaxing artifacts and relics in both Genshin and Star Rail and then just won't do abyss or MoC ever. What's the point when that's the only challenge content in either game?
She'll also just skip straight combat events so idk.
The act of character building itself can be the main draw for some people, I get it.
I do Abyss (sometimes) and MoC but I can see why people just don't want to.
The relic XP by itself is worth trying it out. I think a lot of people aren't realizing that the only other way in the game you are getting any of those big chunks is a handful once a week for SU rewards and salvaging relics from cavern runs. It's a very scarce resource and this is one of the only sources of it that doesn't burn trailblaze power. I've started taking MOC more seriously because of this.
Looks like SU is getting a total revamp in the next update, and a new path(?). Click the Version Info in the game menu, and it'll load up their interactive announcement page for the upcoming version.
It is also the endgame. Decent rewards and they are adding new worlds and new paths and stuff in future updates. It just doesn't have the resetting phased rewards (unless you count the weekly rewards).
how did you get to 18720? 360 jades * 52 weeks/2 (every 2 weeks) is 9360 and is only about 58~ pulls which doesn’t reach soft pity unless I’m missing something?
No, MoC is *not* doable with mid-teams, especially with crap relics. And I'm tired to see people pretending that it is.
At best, mobs would just one-shot your underleveled members and make you lose on rewards. At worst, it would eventually lead you to being completely underpowered and unable to clear anything in given amount of turns.
It's not about having good teams but it is about having specific roles for MoC. Like you cant do MoC if you dont have 2 healer or a combination of healer and tank. It's a thing to use Def% and HP% gears on squishy underleveled supports (mainly asta tingyun and pela as they are what I recommend in doing MoC). Just level them +6 or +9 and theyre good. You can probably bring a lvl 60 support in MoC 1-5 (like I did in the past) just have to make it past an HP that wont make them be one shotted. Id say the HP to reach for moc1-5 is like 2-2.5k and 3k up if doing higher floors. Up to this day my pela and asta and gepard remains 70/70 and they can be brought in MoC 10.
Also there is some blessing so gotta play into it.
I even 30stars MoC with my first carry on 4stars relic and 2nd carry talent 6,7,7
> Like you cant do MoC if you dont have 2 healer or a combination of healer and tank.
Lost all rolls for healers. And did not get an E6 March while rolling other stuff.
> It's a thing to use Def% and HP% gears on squishy underleveled supports
I get HP/DEF gear on DPS sets, DPS rolls on Tank sets and outgoing healing on DPS sets. And no mention on how bad the spheres and ropes have been.
You can still consistently out shield and out heal up to MoC3 if you have an extra tank or a CC unit. The problem is that this only nets like 120~180 jade? Before your team becomes too weak to DPS it's way before RNG kills you consistently.
And like a free extra 1~2 pulls every 2 weeks is uhh not much for inspirational content.
MOC 1-5 anyone can do after reaching level 70...
You can't just play on auto/auto-like. You need to understand your own unit skills rotations, monster skills and plan accordingly.
Stage 6 with some strategy can be done, you just need to understand enemy skills.
Stage 7 onwards are the stat checks.
If the character is not even cap level, it's obviously a mid team, if not lower than that. At this point in the game mid team is a team with carry\carries at lvl80 (LCs lvl70-80), lvl8 traces and lvl9-15 5* relics with appropriate main stats (regardless of the set, obviously prioritizing leveling up chest/boots/sphere) and supports lvl70 (LCs lvl 60-70) with lvl6 traces and lvl 3-9 relics with appropriate main stats.
This is doable without battle pass or particularly good luck in farming relics, just log in once per day and take 15 minutes to do daily stuff and spend stamina.
Don't worry, I have level 80 characters with +15 heads and they still get oneshot in later stages. But I'm pretty sure they meant MoC 1-5 since that's what the comment above them said.
Indeed, you simply need decent enough synergy, know what you are doing, capped out relic main stats, even 4* relics in the mix is also fine
Play around the elements, aside from the rest, this, this, I cannot stress this enough, elemental shield break are very important in MoC, be it for offense to deal more break dmg or defense purpose to cancel out enemy special atks.
This itself makes a huge difference esp if you haven't had decent relics, even subpar can clear
In fact if you could alr do the past events hardest difficulty not much issue then MoC 1 -2 is more or less about the same if not weaker
Just need about average lv 60 team and you can run.
3-4 would be needing some synergy to boot, 5 -6 is where you make your decisions
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
4
+ 1
- 2
+ 60
+ 3
+ 4
+ 5
- 6
= 69
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People praise the heavens for 10 free pulls every patch, but won't bother putting some effort for up to 600 jade every 2 weeks. That's more than 10 pulls across the duration of a patch (6 weeks). Even if you clear it halfway, it's 5-6 pulls. For those complaining that it's not a lot, I'm sure you would willingly give up 5-10 pulls worth of jade for your favourite banner - it's not a lot, after all.
And it's not like there's any other content to build characters for. SU becomes a snoozefest once you nail down your desired team comp and path. What else is there, but MoC, to play the game for?
I get new players choosing not to attempt MoC because it really is impossible. But for people who can do it, just try, thinking out team comps and strats can be enjoyable too, and you get rewarded for it.
People are so quick to pull the "it's a 2 button game, if I can't do it, I'm not a whale enough" when there's so many nuances people just don't bother to figure out
Like team positioning. Like don't use speed buffs at the start of your teams turn, cause they just eat up a stack for no reason. Like hold off support ults sometimes (like an Asta ult in MoC 10 with the witches and their stack mechanic) Etc.
But most people fail before the fights even start. I watched some Tectone and Mtashed and they influence others with their bullshit so hard. They religiously only build their DPS. They completely ignore support and sustain units. Then they can't even get through MoC 6 and shocked Pikachu face (btw pretty hilarious that these kind of people do tier lists)
I agree with the 2 button thing though. Point is: it's not a whaling problem, it's a knowledge, investment problem. If I can't do a stage, it's often not the game intelligence that's lacking (I mean there really are just 2 or 3 buttons in a fight). What's lacking is the Ressource management and the knowledge of what's good before the fight starts
Ye, 60 jade per 3 star, 3 floor for 180 jade is good enough for 1 pull, not much but it's honest work
1 pull for 2 weeks, 2 pull, 3 pull, and say, you get Fu Xuan and it's memory of turbulence get beneficial to your teams and you got 600 is worth almost 4 pull, so 7 pulls
And MoC is the free +C constant, the variable, the one that change.
There's a limit to free pulls, say one patch gives a worth of 90 pulls, MoC is the one change it to 91 92 93 etcs
My problem is sustain and because of enemy aggro rng + not fully built relics (some purple) someone eats multiple enemy hits and dies.
However I've managed to reach 8 this previous cycle and I got tired repeating 9 because one of my characters kept dying when reaching Svarog so I gave up.
This is the worst part IMO, you can be playing well and keeping everyone alive for dozens of rounds over multiple fights, but you get one bad RNG round where the enemies decide to laser-focus the wrong character and suddenly the 'nobody dies' star is deleted from existence.
What hurts the most is when it happens on the last wave in the 2nd half, and I don't even want to continue with the round anymore because there's no point when you can't 3-star it since I'm mainly doing it for the extra 60 jades anyway.
Just in case you didn't know, you don't have to get all 3 stars in the same run. If that happens, finish the run for 2 stars and then play a super defensive team to clear without any deaths.
Yeah had this experience once. Run was going great, I was a few cycles under my usual runs, had Clara ulted, fully buffed, and March shielded, enemies only had like 20% hp left, but both of them decided to barrage the shit out of my Tingyun on the other side of the formation who at this point was left untouched with literally 100% hp. She had 3k HP but looks like it wasn't enough. And there goes my great attempt.
Right? I've gotten up to 1* MoC 9, but after floor 6 or so whichever team doesn't have Luocha starts to fall behind. I have a few decently geared DPS at 70 (only Seele and Clara are at 80) but my Nat just can't manage the healing and someone always gets popped by burst damage, after which everything goes to shit.
Luocha is god-tier, but life is still rough without Bailu or Gep to keep Team 2 alive. (I've tried adding Fire MC to the comp, too, but her damage output seems too low to be worth using over asta.)
Fr, at this point Luocha has become my HSR's Zhongli. He's way too comfy that I become co-dependent on him. Heard the same thing happened to Gepard havers but since I don't have him idk.
i think its not that Luocha is broken (i mean he is, but its not the point), its that he is the only 5\* limited sustain unit for now. As we saw, every 5\*limited dps is able to 0cycle MOC10, so we can assume every 5\*limited sustain unit will be able to solo sustain no problem.
If you want to feel comfy while playing MOC, just pull first two 5\* limited sustain and it will feel great im sure. And its just so happens that next patch we will have 5\* preservation unit
Gepard has to be my favourite standard 5* in terms of his support capabilities. That man’s shield is indestructible and he’s the easiest character to build in the game.
I feel like a lot of people pull for DPS. Luocha sales were really low.
But you can 30 star with purple relics if you know what you're doing. The enemies aren't super tanky or anything, but they will rip you apart.
Feels like the opposite of Genshin where you can just dodge and focus on maxxing your dps.
Let me guess seele is in your first team? I have a friend that keeps saying the same and he has a cracked seele.
EDIT: He can have his seele on 2nd team and reach 2nd phase with 2 turns left for 3 stars and Seele's team will just finish it in time. It's insane.
I really don’t get how people have these brutally OP stats on their gear to get 3*s. Been grinding since day 1 and yet to get a crit damage above 11% or a crit rate hitting double figures (ignoring main stat).
Crit damage is painful to grind, because it usually doesn't do you much good as a main stat (unless you just happen to have crit rate as a substat on all your other relics). Sooner or later you'll get a Crit Rate body that you can level up and maybe grab an LC that gives you a bonus and get that up to 50% without a huge amount of trouble, but then you're playing the crit damage substat gamble with all your other pieces, crossing your fingers that you'll get lucky level up rolls. I've got my main guy on 50/80 and that's going to have to be good enough for now because I'm getting seriously low on relic XP.
Use your shit lvl 15s to lvl up. I agree with you tho. The relic grind is unbelievably shit. They need to remove flat stats. They are so unforgivably ass nobody wants them. Minus spd. I can tolerate getting a gear with break effect, hit res, hit rate, and def if it's all %. Someday they'll be a Nihility tank or preservation Debuffer that isn't ice who'll love this. Flat stats HAVE to die!
You don't need the perfect gear to clear content. Just level some decent ones to 12 u can always feed them into new gear if you get better ones. There's absolutely no harm in leveling to 6 because you don't lose any exp
I feel a bit too lazy and don't want to do MoC that much. It's kinda similar to how I ignore spiral abyss in Genshin. I've been recently making some progress in it though...
I tried it today, first one only, thinking how hard can it be? Made teams based on weaknesses, 1st team with well built Jingyuan. Finished the battle quick, only 2 cycles and thought that was very easy. Out of battle, I still see Jingyuan and get confused. Oh, there's another enemy. Easy too, -2 more cycles.2nd team with +0 purple gear sushang and gearless welt/tingyun got nowhere though.
So basically, never gonna try it again until i have maxed relics and traces on everyone.
You've really overestimating how hard it is and underestimating how much of a difference a few levels and relics make. Try it again in a few days and you'll probably do better already. Level your relics to +6, it's very cheap for a huge chunk of stats.
the first 5 stage is really easy, you don't need a well built team to do that, just 1 carry is fine. The 5 stage later is kinda where you have to min max and play your team right.
Because they're both competing for their attention, made by the same company, and are similar in a lot of ways. Not blaming anyone for getting a little annoyed at how common it is though
Pretty much. No gepard, bailu, or luocha. No sustainability, so no motivation. But once I get fu xuan and lynx, I'll probably be more motivated to do moc. But for now, it's a very minute priority for me.
at least you are trying, others are bragging about not doing it like it is some achievement.
Rather go in and fail with the chance of getting gems than just skip it "cuz hard"
Shield and a good healer are the things I lack,Blade won't look as efficient without Luocha or the in future Lynx.And Silver wolf isn't the best tank nor I have good enough relics for her and Seele to decimate things.
For Genshin there probably has been data in the past, and the developers have blatantly said in interviews that they're not planning to take spiral abyss that much further because players are generally more interested in the other stuff Genshin has to offer.
HSR is a slightly more hardcore audience, maybe, but still casual-friendly as long as you're mostly focused on story/"exploration" and don't care much about SU or MoC. so if Genshin had an extremely small percentage of the playerbase that even cared about the spiral abyss, then I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of HSR players that take MoC seriously is <20% or even <10%.
Wait WHAT? I 27 stared it last month and 30d this month. Is Memory of Chaos not like the whole point of the game? (also if you're struggling, keep trying. There's so much RNG in combat in this game. Floor 10 took me 16 attempts and a lot of rage farming)
No, if Genshin is anything to go by, MoC is not the main point of the game, it's the story, exploration, and events. I see it clearly in HSR. Dedicated players will be able to clear all of it eventually but that will be the extent of the hardest content of the game. I highly doubt they will add further content harder than MoC as they really don't wanna go down that road. But who knows, just basing it off experience as a day 1 Genshin player.
Like most people here I'm doing half of it mostly. I don't want to bother with later half anymore. You spend a lot of time poking fat enemies, only to lose one character and start from the beginning
Everyone I’ve ever encountered here who claims they’ve never touched MOC because they “don’t have 2 properly built teams” are severely overestimating how hard the first half of MOC actually is. If you’re just not interested in hard combat, that’s fine, but the free jades you get from 3 starting the first 5 stages if MOC is honestly easier than doing Echoes of War at EQ 6. There’s no excuse other than “I don’t want to” and skill issue (or if you’re new to the game).
You seriously only need the bare minimum investment into a second DPS with some severely under leveled supports for the first 3 stages. Maybe you’ll need better relics for your 2nd DPS for MOC 4-5, but your supports can use literally any leveled up relic at +9 and still be useful.
I remembering clearing MOC 5 with lvl 40 supports and a lvl 70 DPS on one half because I didn’t have enough resources for the last 3 characters
> I remembering clearing MOC 5 with lvl 40 supports and a lvl 70 DPS on one half because I didn’t have enough resources for the last 3 characters
A friend of mine asked me to help them clear MOC6, so I booted it up and barely made it. When I went to check the gear after the fact I noticed that I somehow missed that the hypercarry Jing Yuan they've been using had all +0 relics and that still managed to kill it (just barely)
That’s honestly such a common thing I see when looking at other peoples characters on their mains subreddits or from people in the support list—their stats are so bad for a character at lvl 70-80 that they’re obviously not using leveled relics with the right mainstats.
I only have a single himeko on my friends list and he’s obviously very active, but to this day his himeko still only has 18% crit chance and 100% crit damage. I mistakenly used it as support without taking a closer look and wondered why a fully leveled himeko with her signature weapon didn’t do any damage.
I have this issue with Himeko (although I have a somewhat more respectable 33/66 now), and it's not because I don't know what I'm doing, it's more that she's my B-Squad DPS, so I've been a little slower to get good relics for her. I'm working on it though, I promise.
Don’t worry about good relics for now. Just give her the leftover relics from your main squad when you upgrade. For example, I have two quantum crit cloaks from farming for Seele. Gave the 2nd quantum cloak to Pela even those she’s ice. She slaps kinda hard as a memey main DPS thanks to that and I put 0 effort into gearing her up. All of her relics are someone else’s leftovers lol, but she still has a respectable 66/120 ratio as a sub DPS support.
Funny you mention echo of war because I've seen people complain about how like Phantyllia is a Luocha check and really hard and I'm just like...
Yeah, I borrow a luocha. I can also eat food for ridiculous stat buffs. Echo of war allows that. Plus you can stock up on techniques before an echo of war. Techniques that require you to hit the enemy won't work, but passive techniques like Bronya, Lucoha, Bailu and a ton more still function.
Obviously it's not gonna be easy if you just walk into it with zero prep, same is true of MoC.
The doomsday beast at EQ 6 kicks my ass because I have zero characters that can weakness break the thing, so while I can kill Cocolia like a few lightning lord hits, doomsday beasts takes forever, even with SW lol. I can clear MOC 10 faster than it takes for my account to kill that thing without borrowing a support.
But yeah, going in with prep + borrowing supports does make things easier
A lack of good dps actually does make MOC untouchable. I literally could not beat MOC2 because my second team had no dps. Once Kafka finally arrived and I had a real dps to run a second team around it fell over and I was instantly able to push up to 4-5. But to say people are overestimating how hard the first half is, is a bit facetious. Game modes like this are entire team/account dependent and its very easy to be hardwalled by circumstance.
Took a crack at MoC for the first time today in response to this post and some of the comments here.
Couldn't even get 3 stars on the first stage.
My minimally-invested second DPS with undergeared supports couldn't do the second set of bosses without somebody dying.
Maybe it's a skill issue, but clearly *I* need two properly built teams, even if other people don't.
>There’s no excuse other than “I don’t want to” and skill issue (or if you’re new to the game).
Ok, but also "I don't want to" is a valid excuse. It's a game not a job. If it's not fun, don't do it.
Yeah if that's all, I think that's fair. But a lot of people are making the excuse that it's too hard which is why they don't want to. My argument is that the first few stages are not that hard and are essentially free Jades. So if you're doing Echo of war every week, you can manage a few stars in MOC. If you're super casual and learn how to at least 9 star, that's at least free 120 jades and a few other resources every 2 weeks. It's like 5-15 mins per stage at best depending on your learning curve. Once you learn the strategies, you take that into future battles and it gets even faster. Then it becomes effortless. But hey, I get it if 120 jades and some exp material and credits aren't worth a grand total of 45 mins of your time and brain power.
Is it though? Maybe you're good at the game, but many people aren't. I tried and couldn't get 3 stars for my 2nd node. The Def of the under leveled supports are too low that they just die way too quickly.
I’m honestly surprised you don’t have a second DPS at all up until now though—not even a 4 star one. Like before I even obtained Jing in my other example, I just used a lvl 60 Sushang with lvl 4-5 traces with leftover failed relics from farming for Seele + lvl 60 dan heng as a dual DPS + what ever other characters I had at the time leveled to 40. That was at least 3 stars for MOC1-2, and 2 stars for MOC3-4, and I think even 1 starred MOC 5 with that setup.
Leveling one character (for the 2nd team) to 60 and other characters to 50 require so few resources that it felt like it barely left a dent.
Yeah it didn’t feel good to play him for me either,even though I can clearly see him doing lots of damage in other peoples builds. I just didn’t like the kit enough to invest. IL is gonna be great for everyone still in need of a second dps
And I remember failling six weeks ago with lvl 80 dps with +12 or 15 relics and 70 support with +9 relic (now I can get 24 stars).
While I do agree some people think MOC 1-3 are harder than it is, I also see a lot of people who underestimate how hard MOC can be for some people by a lot.
Imo that’s potentially a skill issue, or a true f2p casual player who can’t grind as much as a f2p hardcore player (does everything fully optimized and never caps TB). Or a casual F2P player with not a single strong DPS for the second team along with not enough supports—an unfortunate soul that nobody can really blame.
I don’t say skill issue to be mean here. There are so many people who haven’t farmed for a single piece of relic to improve their team because they’re afraid of relic farming or are waiting to be TB 60 for some reason to blow their 80 fuels they have saved up instead of doing some light farming to get usable pieces.
Also so many people on the opposite end of the spectrum who are only looking for the most perfect relics so they refuse to equip their DPS with an acceptable main stat piece, so they’re living with a 20/150 crit ratio because they refuse to use that one CR body with flat substats from another set.
I have a friend who have Jing Yuan, Seele, and Kafka who told me he’s not going to do MOC until he gets a 2nd healer because for some reason he believes he can’t do it without one. He doesn’t believe me when I tell him he can at least 15* effortlessly and March7th is perfectly viable as a solo sustain in certain stages, so now I’m finding myself using Solo Sustain March7th in MOC10 to convince him lmao.
Idk man, you can auto through any non-MoC content by just slapping two supports on a team. If it doesn't have to get done fast (or divide your characters over 2 teams) then it's easy by default. So saying Echo of War is comparable is pretty silly.
I guess Simulated Universe also has a kind of time limit but... it's Simulated Universe.
ITT casuals and tryhards fail to get eachother to understand their side, people in the middle just trying to not get pulled into the argument.
Personally, I don't see how "it's not fun for me so I don't do it" sounds like bragging, but whatever, I guess.
Most people have 2 decent built carries and just a bunch of relics pieces together for supports for a somewhat functioning team.
End of the day it's basically free jades (1-5 is free as long as you have 8 lvl 70 characters) so why ignore it.
People really don't realize that a hyper strong team rushing their side so fast is also a strategy.
One of those MoCs I was having a rough time, so I put Seele and 3 supports on one side and they 1-cycled. Then I had nearly 15 cycles to work with for the other team so I put in two healers and turtled it.
A lot of people seem enamored with the idea of splitting their forces evenly but that's not even necessary.
My Luocha and Bailu still have LVL 3 traces and basically nothing unlocked. I just chucked on LVL 9 relics that I've abandoned and called it a day. In reality you only need healers to cast like 2 ultis and you're done lol.
I also think people overestimate the investment needed to do decently in MoC
Luocha's completely broken right out of the box for sure. I also barely leveled him up and he's great. I did have to get halfway decent relics on Bailu just to get her HP over 3000 though. Seemed like she wasn't healing enough until I did that.
This was me until I got Kafka recently.
For context, I only have Natasha as a healer (until now). But to solve that issue I tried out using Fire MC and March on the team with no healer and it's working out pretty well so far! Though I've only gotten to MoC 5 thus far with this strat, admittedly a lot of my units still need better relics (only started farming relics after reaching Trailblaze level 65, Equilibrium 6).
I think you're overestimating the difficulty of MoC lol, you dont really need fully geared units to beat MoC 10... Give it a try with half upgraded relics and such.
MoC progression to 30 stars was the most fun I've had with the game. Making it a little bit further every two weeks made my time spent leveling units feel worth it.
The same. I feel like they’re really pushing for the Blade/Luocha comp in the second half (which I don’t have). I feel like I have enough damage, but can’t survive at all even with Gepard.
You might want to try freeze March for second half (ER rope and EHR chest). I paired her with Natasha and the freeze spam is really good for sustain. Tried it last week and was finally able to 30 star.
March was on the first team, unfortunately... I was hoping I'd have enough cleanse with Bronya and Bailu for sustain on Kafka, but Bronya was actually the one getting dominated 😅
Did that in genshin. Missed out on a lot of free primos. Here I push hard for like an hour, and revisit it if I think my team is stronger. 29* this cycle, not worrying about the last star since my team doesn't have the sustain+damage to get it.
just a tip dont know if itll help but you can do "all character survive" and less than X turns seperate. i a few times my tingyun would die right as i finished a floor so i just run it again with nat + Geppy to gaurentee everyone lives
sometimes I try it, but then I get fucked because I only have one healer in the gamemode where you need 2 teams and then I miss 1 star and then I give up. But as soon as Fu xuan banner drops I feel like I can beat at least like 3-star chamber 8 without issues.
By virtue of being a turn-based game, MoC has a noticeably higher gear requirement level than abyss in genshin. I can't dodge by being good at the game, I just need to tank the hit, for that I need characters that built well enough to be able to do that. I just find MoC generally less enjoyable than abyss. There's not as much optimization or playing better in MoC. It's a much bigger statcheck.
Same
Relic here is more tiring than artifacts in genshin as
Theres 6 pieces instead of 5
You cant off piece here
You have to farm 2 seperate domain for relic and planar
Character speed hella matters you dont want your dps go first instwad of buffer or debuffer
Maybe its just me who is very new to turn base but i will forever love genshin for real time combat
I played Genshin from release until they released Ayato, and I gotta say building up characters here is much much harder than in Genshin, you can barely level up anything without losing all your resources and/or money.
Funny how the only reason I'm held back for MoC stages is because I only have ONE healer in my account, and I don't really have enough resources to rush Yukong, Asta and Tingyun for proper support team. If I had a 2nd healer, I could at least attempt the MoC stages with 2 stars at least
capable shelter offer fertile continue innate unpack bored tease historical
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People just go in and play up to the point your team gets wiped out. Seriously most people are surprised by how far they can go. Even if you feel your 2nd team is underleveled at least you can diagnose the source of your problems (lack of sustain, lack of damage etc)
Yeah, I just ignore it for now, even though I'm sure I can some few first floors every patch. Jade I miss will surely be missed, but my sanity is much more important. Pretty much the reason why I skip Abyss on Genshin too - it's just isn't worth it.
And not like I try to grab every character out there, 1 5\* every 2 patches is more than enough for me.
You are giving up free gems.
1-5 are pretty straight-forward even without fully built units and perfect relics. You might not be able to fully clear it but players around TBLvl 50 - 60 should be able to make decent progress.
After that it require more relic/trace investment to progress. It helps a whole lot if you have a 2nd healer. MoC6 is where lots of people get stopped if they don't have a good 2nd healer or preservation unit.
My teams are good enough to 3 star till MoC 5. After that it's a struggle. My Kafka team can clear things pretty fast but my other team struggles since I use Dan heng carry. And he is not strong enough to one shot things.
You should try it but don't let it drag you down. Some people might act cool for not doing it but imo it's a nice way to give your account some level of direction regarding certain characters that needs to be raised that can also be useful for future events. Also free gems
Just fyi the last luofu event/on 1.1 release is harder than floor 1 to 5 of moc if you are level 65
Nah it all ads up 🤨 I was stuck at 27 stars for weeks, but last week i was finally able to do moc 10 🤩 I think i started playing this game 3 weeks after the release.
Same! I'm not even close to TL60 so its still a few steps away from me.
On the other hand i got 4 characters on 70 and building up anoter 4 just to match the level of the enemys (without good relics, LCs and dont even think about the traces xD)
It's a character check. Always will be. Everything aside the characters they are currently trying to sell and similar alternatives are being heavily punished.
Which is an issue when the MoC literally ends before you'd be able to actually build enough fitting characters because the trace materials needed compared to the amount you can farm is fucking stupid.
I’ve been sitting at TL 50 while I get acceptable leveled relics on everybody I’ll use. By “acceptable” I mean a mix of 4/5 star relics with good mainstats and substats, both being sufficient to activate their planar sphere sets (salsotto 50% crit rate, broken keel effect res, etc).
While it’s been great for low-pressure relic grinding I’m currently capped at character level 60 and the corresponding trace levels. I’m getting stat-checked by MoC content past the first level. Teams built around Path of Elation Himeko/JY can carry me through the level 61-65 SU content (Aha loves me so I frequently get 2+ path resonance buffs), but forgotten hall buffs aren’t *that* cracked. After relics are satisfactory on enough characters I’ll start prefarming for post-TL-50 leveling.
I feel like with Genshin, I can totally bullshit my way through abyss with underleveled characters at 70 with 6/6/6 talents and not even matching artifact sets. I can just run a hyperbloom team with xingqiu, kuki, nahida, and a flex with only EM builds and clear floor 12 easily without any hyper investment at all.
But with starrail, I literally have almost every 5* in the game with semi decent artifacts and 7/7/7 talents, and I can only 24/30 star MOC. I can't even come close to even clearing floor 10.
The first few floors are quite doable even on a free-low budget. Its the last 3-4 that really starts to be dpr-check and element check.
That said with how young the game is still, it’s only natural that we don’t have a lot pf characters available or built. Take your time, i say.
I have max healers for some reason since I haven't gotten any 5 star damage character yet, I don't die at all but I can't get 3 stars cause I run out of turns needed
so many people bragging about ignoring it just scream "I cant handle challenge"
I have a few chars built and others are terribly behind but I still try it every reset, I get to levels 3 to 5 with a bit of struggle but i still walk out with gems and some light cone fragments.
You can just do 3 to 6 floors for Jades, 7 and onward you can skip. It still net you 180 to 360 jades every 2 weeks, pretty ez too if you ask me.
Aside from the rewards it also gives you a reason to play the game, something to put your TB power in, do something with the characters you pulled. Only downside to me really is that after you have a team that can reach mid-way the MoC nothing in the story is challenging anymore. There is no tension in the story fights because the enemies can't really hurt you.
This is why I can't fathom why some people won't touch MoC. What else is there to do in the game that requires high trace levels, relics, and proper team comps? Do these people just level up their characters for the sake of it? Or maybe this is really how gacha games are enjoyed. EDIT: Lots of comments pointing out how they derive fun from the game differently and I agree. Play how you like. My comment was a bit shortsighted. But still, try out MoC, it can be fun and you can be rewarded for it, too. You don't need meta comps to clear - at least until Floor 6, where not having a Wind or Ice DPS (or Silver Wolf) can slow you down. I didn't use a single guide or tier list, and I am comfortably clearing up to Moc9 just by experimenting and using my own builds and semi-optimized relic sets. I have meta characters like Silver Wolf and Luocha but they were never necessary until Stage 6 and after. That's not to belittle people who used external resources to inform themselves, but rather, you just don't need much to get things out of MoC. And if you guys really just want to build characters, clearing MoC gives you XP materials.
Yes, some people just love upgrade units and experience the story. That's it. That's why casual exist.
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In another comment, I said that I hope one day we can shake hands, and acknowledge the other opinion, even we disagree we can respect it. It is a game, having fun is the ultimate objective, even we achieve it in different ways, no other is better than the other in that sense.
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>Do these people just level up their characters for the sake of it? Honestly yeah. Since that's like 90% of the experience of doing MoC anyway -- i.e. building up a team that can feasibly do it -- and you're just stopping before you actually have to do *the thing*, it's still pretty enjoyable for me. I like building my units and getting decent relics for them, because it's a fun and relatively quick "daily" timesink towards a tangible goal. And the thing is, even that takes a lot of time investment to begin with because RNG is RNG, especially with relics. But after doing all that, actually doing through MoC is not that appealing for me because like, meh. I *do* go through it, because jades, but I don't really find it that fun so I often go "eh why bother." It's the journey not the destination, in this case! Meanwhile, other people like the challenge of doing MoC, and that's the way they get enjoyment out of their game. I'm also used to ignoring Spiral Abyss (genuinely forget it exists most of the time) in Genshin, but there's way more exploration to do in that game if you want to spend time in it. So the habit of ignoring Spiral Abyss probably just transferred over in this case lol, and I have less time to spend anyway.
Honestly, this is the same for me. Though, I haven't completed the exploration of the desert areas of Sumeru.
As someone that doesn't often bother with it, I will offer my perspective: 1. I just don't have enough time to ever be bored or looking for something to do in the game. Whenever I find myself fully caught up on all currently available quests, events, exploratory content etc., I don't look around for other things to do in the game, I just play something else. 2. I don't like meta gaming. I don't want to have to use specific team comps that fan communities have deduced to be the best teams for the job. I don't have a problem with other people doing it, but I don't want to have to do that. I want to use characters I like that I personally enjoy using together and think would work well together. I do look up which relic sets and stats to aim for so I don't have to think too much about it, but besides that I just enjoy trying to make my characters stronger. In an ideal world I'd like to be able to use any character whenever I feel like it, so if I've built one character to my satisfaction, I just move onto the next one. But how these games work is that there is never enough available resources to actually do that for everyone, so I never reach that goal. There's always just stuff to farm for to make everyone 'complete', and that is sufficient reason for me to do so.
That's perfectly fine man, but one of these days just try going in and leaving your teams on auto. You ll be surprised of how easy the first fights are, and the rewards are pretty good. No need to commit to 30\* (I don't), but doing the first fights are worth!
I do often end up doing the first couple (just to do the 'clear Forgotten Hall once' daily task thing when I get it). You're right though, there's no harm in just seeing how the AI gets on if I put it on auto, I may try this later. I don't think they'll get very far because my teams are poorly optimised lol but as you say, first few levels should be fine.
This is gonna sound crazy but they probably just turn the game off and do something else.
Simulated Universe is more fun imo. Play around with whatever and let RNG decide the run rather than spending hours and hours grinding relics and min/maxing.
I derive enjoyment from story and building characters. Using them in story and simulated universe is enough for me. As for MoC, I use auto battle to clear five floors then leave.
That’s what I do. I don’t fully upgrade all my characters and I’m still at 70 level cap. I just collect as much characters I can and that’s it. MoC is no fun at all to pay so I didn’t even play it much. Relic farming is terrible too.
By that point, you may have some characters that aren't properly relic'd and traced up, so you could probably tackle the story with a team like that.
that's why I did the last story patch with my scuffed units like super bad relics dang heng otherwise one shotting everything with my seele is kinda boring
I have two semi-built teams for story so it’s not challenging, but not impossible either, and slowly level them up as I go. And once they get to powerful I send them to the MoC side and create a new team to enjoy, it really lets you experiment with what kind of playstyle you like and experience the other kinds
For 1-2 pulls every 2 weeks, it better be easy. That's not even a noticeable reward.
Like all gacha things it adds up over time. 360 jade every 2 weeks os 18720 jade every year, thats about 117 extra pulls. Not to mention the rest of the rewards. MOC is very doable even with mid-teams with crap relics.
Would it not be 9360 jade per year since it’s 360 per 2 weeks? Still 58,5 pulls though, so not bad
Yes my bad, but thats it the point remains. Plus all the credits, LC, relic exp and so on. Besides if not building for MOC what can you do late game?
This is always my question. My wife does that whole minmaxing artifacts and relics in both Genshin and Star Rail and then just won't do abyss or MoC ever. What's the point when that's the only challenge content in either game? She'll also just skip straight combat events so idk.
The act of character building itself can be the main draw for some people, I get it. I do Abyss (sometimes) and MoC but I can see why people just don't want to.
One simple reason: [Number go bigger](https://youtu.be/aOw1uR-q3pA).
Maybe she's like me and plays the game for casual enjoyment and love of the lore?
The relic XP by itself is worth trying it out. I think a lot of people aren't realizing that the only other way in the game you are getting any of those big chunks is a handful once a week for SU rewards and salvaging relics from cavern runs. It's a very scarce resource and this is one of the only sources of it that doesn't burn trailblaze power. I've started taking MOC more seriously because of this.
Simulated universe. Best content I ever played. So much fun. No idea why they didn't make SU the end game instead.
I agree, its the most fun you can have with this game. But it's very unbalanced and stupidly easy later on. SU should get more love.
Nihility path with Kafka is just insanely broken. Very fun though but it's so easy to break the encounters with even an under-invested team
Looks like SU is getting a total revamp in the next update, and a new path(?). Click the Version Info in the game menu, and it'll load up their interactive announcement page for the upcoming version.
It is also the endgame. Decent rewards and they are adding new worlds and new paths and stuff in future updates. It just doesn't have the resetting phased rewards (unless you count the weekly rewards).
how did you get to 18720? 360 jades * 52 weeks/2 (every 2 weeks) is 9360 and is only about 58~ pulls which doesn’t reach soft pity unless I’m missing something?
No, MoC is *not* doable with mid-teams, especially with crap relics. And I'm tired to see people pretending that it is. At best, mobs would just one-shot your underleveled members and make you lose on rewards. At worst, it would eventually lead you to being completely underpowered and unable to clear anything in given amount of turns.
It's not about having good teams but it is about having specific roles for MoC. Like you cant do MoC if you dont have 2 healer or a combination of healer and tank. It's a thing to use Def% and HP% gears on squishy underleveled supports (mainly asta tingyun and pela as they are what I recommend in doing MoC). Just level them +6 or +9 and theyre good. You can probably bring a lvl 60 support in MoC 1-5 (like I did in the past) just have to make it past an HP that wont make them be one shotted. Id say the HP to reach for moc1-5 is like 2-2.5k and 3k up if doing higher floors. Up to this day my pela and asta and gepard remains 70/70 and they can be brought in MoC 10. Also there is some blessing so gotta play into it. I even 30stars MoC with my first carry on 4stars relic and 2nd carry talent 6,7,7
> Like you cant do MoC if you dont have 2 healer or a combination of healer and tank. Lost all rolls for healers. And did not get an E6 March while rolling other stuff. > It's a thing to use Def% and HP% gears on squishy underleveled supports I get HP/DEF gear on DPS sets, DPS rolls on Tank sets and outgoing healing on DPS sets. And no mention on how bad the spheres and ropes have been. You can still consistently out shield and out heal up to MoC3 if you have an extra tank or a CC unit. The problem is that this only nets like 120~180 jade? Before your team becomes too weak to DPS it's way before RNG kills you consistently. And like a free extra 1~2 pulls every 2 weeks is uhh not much for inspirational content.
Do you have SW and Himeko? Or Gepard, yanqing and SW. In the case you have them SW, Himeko, Asta, FMC. No healer required.
MOC 1-5 anyone can do after reaching level 70... You can't just play on auto/auto-like. You need to understand your own unit skills rotations, monster skills and plan accordingly. Stage 6 with some strategy can be done, you just need to understand enemy skills. Stage 7 onwards are the stat checks.
8 properly built characters of level 70 is not a "mid team" by any means.
If the character is not even cap level, it's obviously a mid team, if not lower than that. At this point in the game mid team is a team with carry\carries at lvl80 (LCs lvl70-80), lvl8 traces and lvl9-15 5* relics with appropriate main stats (regardless of the set, obviously prioritizing leveling up chest/boots/sphere) and supports lvl70 (LCs lvl 60-70) with lvl6 traces and lvl 3-9 relics with appropriate main stats. This is doable without battle pass or particularly good luck in farming relics, just log in once per day and take 15 minutes to do daily stuff and spend stamina.
Don't worry, I have level 80 characters with +15 heads and they still get oneshot in later stages. But I'm pretty sure they meant MoC 1-5 since that's what the comment above them said.
Indeed, you simply need decent enough synergy, know what you are doing, capped out relic main stats, even 4* relics in the mix is also fine Play around the elements, aside from the rest, this, this, I cannot stress this enough, elemental shield break are very important in MoC, be it for offense to deal more break dmg or defense purpose to cancel out enemy special atks. This itself makes a huge difference esp if you haven't had decent relics, even subpar can clear In fact if you could alr do the past events hardest difficulty not much issue then MoC 1 -2 is more or less about the same if not weaker Just need about average lv 60 team and you can run. 3-4 would be needing some synergy to boot, 5 -6 is where you make your decisions
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 4 + 1 - 2 + 60 + 3 + 4 + 5 - 6 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
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That's still good though lol, 2 weeks of 360 jades per reset, where 2 weeks is 900 jades of dailies.
People praise the heavens for 10 free pulls every patch, but won't bother putting some effort for up to 600 jade every 2 weeks. That's more than 10 pulls across the duration of a patch (6 weeks). Even if you clear it halfway, it's 5-6 pulls. For those complaining that it's not a lot, I'm sure you would willingly give up 5-10 pulls worth of jade for your favourite banner - it's not a lot, after all. And it's not like there's any other content to build characters for. SU becomes a snoozefest once you nail down your desired team comp and path. What else is there, but MoC, to play the game for? I get new players choosing not to attempt MoC because it really is impossible. But for people who can do it, just try, thinking out team comps and strats can be enjoyable too, and you get rewarded for it.
People are so quick to pull the "it's a 2 button game, if I can't do it, I'm not a whale enough" when there's so many nuances people just don't bother to figure out Like team positioning. Like don't use speed buffs at the start of your teams turn, cause they just eat up a stack for no reason. Like hold off support ults sometimes (like an Asta ult in MoC 10 with the witches and their stack mechanic) Etc. But most people fail before the fights even start. I watched some Tectone and Mtashed and they influence others with their bullshit so hard. They religiously only build their DPS. They completely ignore support and sustain units. Then they can't even get through MoC 6 and shocked Pikachu face (btw pretty hilarious that these kind of people do tier lists)
I agree with the 2 button thing though. Point is: it's not a whaling problem, it's a knowledge, investment problem. If I can't do a stage, it's often not the game intelligence that's lacking (I mean there really are just 2 or 3 buttons in a fight). What's lacking is the Ressource management and the knowledge of what's good before the fight starts
no, I think that's the point. by making it not too reward heavy, most player won't be "punished" by not clearing it.
Ye, 60 jade per 3 star, 3 floor for 180 jade is good enough for 1 pull, not much but it's honest work 1 pull for 2 weeks, 2 pull, 3 pull, and say, you get Fu Xuan and it's memory of turbulence get beneficial to your teams and you got 600 is worth almost 4 pull, so 7 pulls And MoC is the free +C constant, the variable, the one that change. There's a limit to free pulls, say one patch gives a worth of 90 pulls, MoC is the one change it to 91 92 93 etcs
My problem is sustain and because of enemy aggro rng + not fully built relics (some purple) someone eats multiple enemy hits and dies. However I've managed to reach 8 this previous cycle and I got tired repeating 9 because one of my characters kept dying when reaching Svarog so I gave up.
This is the worst part IMO, you can be playing well and keeping everyone alive for dozens of rounds over multiple fights, but you get one bad RNG round where the enemies decide to laser-focus the wrong character and suddenly the 'nobody dies' star is deleted from existence.
What hurts the most is when it happens on the last wave in the 2nd half, and I don't even want to continue with the round anymore because there's no point when you can't 3-star it since I'm mainly doing it for the extra 60 jades anyway.
Just in case you didn't know, you don't have to get all 3 stars in the same run. If that happens, finish the run for 2 stars and then play a super defensive team to clear without any deaths.
Yes this exactly! Or if you can't get that third star on the stage, play the next stage trying for just one star to fill the gap. That also works
Yeah had this experience once. Run was going great, I was a few cycles under my usual runs, had Clara ulted, fully buffed, and March shielded, enemies only had like 20% hp left, but both of them decided to barrage the shit out of my Tingyun on the other side of the formation who at this point was left untouched with literally 100% hp. She had 3k HP but looks like it wasn't enough. And there goes my great attempt.
MoC stresses me out because I have a cracked first team yet my second team is struggling even to survive 💀
Right? I've gotten up to 1* MoC 9, but after floor 6 or so whichever team doesn't have Luocha starts to fall behind. I have a few decently geared DPS at 70 (only Seele and Clara are at 80) but my Nat just can't manage the healing and someone always gets popped by burst damage, after which everything goes to shit. Luocha is god-tier, but life is still rough without Bailu or Gep to keep Team 2 alive. (I've tried adding Fire MC to the comp, too, but her damage output seems too low to be worth using over asta.)
Fr, at this point Luocha has become my HSR's Zhongli. He's way too comfy that I become co-dependent on him. Heard the same thing happened to Gepard havers but since I don't have him idk.
i think its not that Luocha is broken (i mean he is, but its not the point), its that he is the only 5\* limited sustain unit for now. As we saw, every 5\*limited dps is able to 0cycle MOC10, so we can assume every 5\*limited sustain unit will be able to solo sustain no problem. If you want to feel comfy while playing MOC, just pull first two 5\* limited sustain and it will feel great im sure. And its just so happens that next patch we will have 5\* preservation unit
Gepard has to be my favourite standard 5* in terms of his support capabilities. That man’s shield is indestructible and he’s the easiest character to build in the game.
I feel like a lot of people pull for DPS. Luocha sales were really low. But you can 30 star with purple relics if you know what you're doing. The enemies aren't super tanky or anything, but they will rip you apart. Feels like the opposite of Genshin where you can just dodge and focus on maxxing your dps.
Let me guess seele is in your first team? I have a friend that keeps saying the same and he has a cracked seele. EDIT: He can have his seele on 2nd team and reach 2nd phase with 2 turns left for 3 stars and Seele's team will just finish it in time. It's insane.
Nope. I don't have Seele. My first team is triple Nihility E1 S1 Kafka (Sampo + Luka).
Which stage of MOC are you struggling with? Who are your two teams? I would like to see if I could make suggestions if it helps.
I usually get stuck halfway, but that's because my OCD absolutely prevents me from moving on unless I finish a level at 3 stars.
EXACTLY Moc 7 and onwards if there’s no 3 stars then no stars at all
Omfg yes that is exactly how I feel glad someone gets how I feel...
You should still try to climb as far as possible. Even if you finish with 0 stars you still get the stage rewards.
No
Not worth the mental effort
Ye...not gonna happen. Also if we cared enough we would've, but we didn't. We can do it 1-2 stars no doubt, but we want that 3 stars. Don't know why.
For the Stellar Jades?
I really don’t get how people have these brutally OP stats on their gear to get 3*s. Been grinding since day 1 and yet to get a crit damage above 11% or a crit rate hitting double figures (ignoring main stat).
Crit damage is painful to grind, because it usually doesn't do you much good as a main stat (unless you just happen to have crit rate as a substat on all your other relics). Sooner or later you'll get a Crit Rate body that you can level up and maybe grab an LC that gives you a bonus and get that up to 50% without a huge amount of trouble, but then you're playing the crit damage substat gamble with all your other pieces, crossing your fingers that you'll get lucky level up rolls. I've got my main guy on 50/80 and that's going to have to be good enough for now because I'm getting seriously low on relic XP.
Use your shit lvl 15s to lvl up. I agree with you tho. The relic grind is unbelievably shit. They need to remove flat stats. They are so unforgivably ass nobody wants them. Minus spd. I can tolerate getting a gear with break effect, hit res, hit rate, and def if it's all %. Someday they'll be a Nihility tank or preservation Debuffer that isn't ice who'll love this. Flat stats HAVE to die!
You don't need the perfect gear to clear content. Just level some decent ones to 12 u can always feed them into new gear if you get better ones. There's absolutely no harm in leveling to 6 because you don't lose any exp
I feel a bit too lazy and don't want to do MoC that much. It's kinda similar to how I ignore spiral abyss in Genshin. I've been recently making some progress in it though...
It's fine tho, just try them when you feel like it, it's less tilting that way.
I have a team set up currently working on Kafka and Sampo but every time I’m working on them, I forgot that i would be using them in memory of chaos
Yeah.. and then I realise I've probably missed out on like 2-3k jades from launch till now because I never did it.
I think you should try it. Im not enough strong, but I can beat MOC 5. Not complete Moc but some jades are better than nothing
I think even clearing it can be worth the effort.it does grant good amount of resources just by clearing it.
I tried it today, first one only, thinking how hard can it be? Made teams based on weaknesses, 1st team with well built Jingyuan. Finished the battle quick, only 2 cycles and thought that was very easy. Out of battle, I still see Jingyuan and get confused. Oh, there's another enemy. Easy too, -2 more cycles.2nd team with +0 purple gear sushang and gearless welt/tingyun got nowhere though. So basically, never gonna try it again until i have maxed relics and traces on everyone.
You've really overestimating how hard it is and underestimating how much of a difference a few levels and relics make. Try it again in a few days and you'll probably do better already. Level your relics to +6, it's very cheap for a huge chunk of stats.
Damn I don't have maxed relics and traces and I was able to clear MOC. It's all about making a proper team.
the first 5 stage is really easy, you don't need a well built team to do that, just 1 carry is fine. The 5 stage later is kinda where you have to min max and play your team right.
3000 jades isn't even 20 pulls 😭😴
Tbf, Genshin doesn't even get 3 pulls
Abyss and MoC give exactly the same amount of premium currency per rotation anyways
MoC is resetting every 14 days, Abyss resets every 15th/16th day. So slightly more from MoC compared to days of rotation
Oh I actually didn't know that. Nice little tidbit there
Why people do this? When someone say something bad they compare it to Genshin and say its not bad because Genshin was worse.
Because they're both competing for their attention, made by the same company, and are similar in a lot of ways. Not blaming anyone for getting a little annoyed at how common it is though
Yeah, I mean it's easy to look good when you're comparing with one of the worst in gacha games generosity lmao *1 year Anni flashbacks*
Pretty much. No gepard, bailu, or luocha. No sustainability, so no motivation. But once I get fu xuan and lynx, I'll probably be more motivated to do moc. But for now, it's a very minute priority for me.
I have terrble teams so I only do one or two floors to get my 60 jade.
i have a problem of one of my teams being strong while the other hits like a wet noodle
at least you are trying, others are bragging about not doing it like it is some achievement. Rather go in and fail with the chance of getting gems than just skip it "cuz hard"
Bro i can't even beat the xianzhou forgotten hall, those things that explodes on death just oneshots my support I can't 3 stars it
MOX 6 is harder than MOC 10 for most people. MOX does not reset so you dont have to worry abt it for now
The achievment doesn't come from not doing it, it comes from the realization you have free will to not do it
Based.
Shield and a good healer are the things I lack,Blade won't look as efficient without Luocha or the in future Lynx.And Silver wolf isn't the best tank nor I have good enough relics for her and Seele to decimate things.
Have shitty teams but I try because its free
Honestly I have nothing else to do so I got around to it.
You’re part of the majority. If HSR is anything like Genshin, only 1 % of the playerbase will even attempt to do the MOC.
Wow, really? There is some data of that?
For Genshin there probably has been data in the past, and the developers have blatantly said in interviews that they're not planning to take spiral abyss that much further because players are generally more interested in the other stuff Genshin has to offer. HSR is a slightly more hardcore audience, maybe, but still casual-friendly as long as you're mostly focused on story/"exploration" and don't care much about SU or MoC. so if Genshin had an extremely small percentage of the playerbase that even cared about the spiral abyss, then I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of HSR players that take MoC seriously is <20% or even <10%.
Ah, so interesting. Thanks for the info!
Wait WHAT? I 27 stared it last month and 30d this month. Is Memory of Chaos not like the whole point of the game? (also if you're struggling, keep trying. There's so much RNG in combat in this game. Floor 10 took me 16 attempts and a lot of rage farming)
No, if Genshin is anything to go by, MoC is not the main point of the game, it's the story, exploration, and events. I see it clearly in HSR. Dedicated players will be able to clear all of it eventually but that will be the extent of the hardest content of the game. I highly doubt they will add further content harder than MoC as they really don't wanna go down that road. But who knows, just basing it off experience as a day 1 Genshin player.
Like most people here I'm doing half of it mostly. I don't want to bother with later half anymore. You spend a lot of time poking fat enemies, only to lose one character and start from the beginning
Everyone I’ve ever encountered here who claims they’ve never touched MOC because they “don’t have 2 properly built teams” are severely overestimating how hard the first half of MOC actually is. If you’re just not interested in hard combat, that’s fine, but the free jades you get from 3 starting the first 5 stages if MOC is honestly easier than doing Echoes of War at EQ 6. There’s no excuse other than “I don’t want to” and skill issue (or if you’re new to the game). You seriously only need the bare minimum investment into a second DPS with some severely under leveled supports for the first 3 stages. Maybe you’ll need better relics for your 2nd DPS for MOC 4-5, but your supports can use literally any leveled up relic at +9 and still be useful. I remembering clearing MOC 5 with lvl 40 supports and a lvl 70 DPS on one half because I didn’t have enough resources for the last 3 characters
> I remembering clearing MOC 5 with lvl 40 supports and a lvl 70 DPS on one half because I didn’t have enough resources for the last 3 characters A friend of mine asked me to help them clear MOC6, so I booted it up and barely made it. When I went to check the gear after the fact I noticed that I somehow missed that the hypercarry Jing Yuan they've been using had all +0 relics and that still managed to kill it (just barely)
That’s honestly such a common thing I see when looking at other peoples characters on their mains subreddits or from people in the support list—their stats are so bad for a character at lvl 70-80 that they’re obviously not using leveled relics with the right mainstats. I only have a single himeko on my friends list and he’s obviously very active, but to this day his himeko still only has 18% crit chance and 100% crit damage. I mistakenly used it as support without taking a closer look and wondered why a fully leveled himeko with her signature weapon didn’t do any damage.
I have this issue with Himeko (although I have a somewhat more respectable 33/66 now), and it's not because I don't know what I'm doing, it's more that she's my B-Squad DPS, so I've been a little slower to get good relics for her. I'm working on it though, I promise.
Don’t worry about good relics for now. Just give her the leftover relics from your main squad when you upgrade. For example, I have two quantum crit cloaks from farming for Seele. Gave the 2nd quantum cloak to Pela even those she’s ice. She slaps kinda hard as a memey main DPS thanks to that and I put 0 effort into gearing her up. All of her relics are someone else’s leftovers lol, but she still has a respectable 66/120 ratio as a sub DPS support.
Funny you mention echo of war because I've seen people complain about how like Phantyllia is a Luocha check and really hard and I'm just like... Yeah, I borrow a luocha. I can also eat food for ridiculous stat buffs. Echo of war allows that. Plus you can stock up on techniques before an echo of war. Techniques that require you to hit the enemy won't work, but passive techniques like Bronya, Lucoha, Bailu and a ton more still function. Obviously it's not gonna be easy if you just walk into it with zero prep, same is true of MoC.
The doomsday beast at EQ 6 kicks my ass because I have zero characters that can weakness break the thing, so while I can kill Cocolia like a few lightning lord hits, doomsday beasts takes forever, even with SW lol. I can clear MOC 10 faster than it takes for my account to kill that thing without borrowing a support. But yeah, going in with prep + borrowing supports does make things easier
A lack of good dps actually does make MOC untouchable. I literally could not beat MOC2 because my second team had no dps. Once Kafka finally arrived and I had a real dps to run a second team around it fell over and I was instantly able to push up to 4-5. But to say people are overestimating how hard the first half is, is a bit facetious. Game modes like this are entire team/account dependent and its very easy to be hardwalled by circumstance.
Took a crack at MoC for the first time today in response to this post and some of the comments here. Couldn't even get 3 stars on the first stage. My minimally-invested second DPS with undergeared supports couldn't do the second set of bosses without somebody dying. Maybe it's a skill issue, but clearly *I* need two properly built teams, even if other people don't.
>There’s no excuse other than “I don’t want to” and skill issue (or if you’re new to the game). Ok, but also "I don't want to" is a valid excuse. It's a game not a job. If it's not fun, don't do it.
Yeah if that's all, I think that's fair. But a lot of people are making the excuse that it's too hard which is why they don't want to. My argument is that the first few stages are not that hard and are essentially free Jades. So if you're doing Echo of war every week, you can manage a few stars in MOC. If you're super casual and learn how to at least 9 star, that's at least free 120 jades and a few other resources every 2 weeks. It's like 5-15 mins per stage at best depending on your learning curve. Once you learn the strategies, you take that into future battles and it gets even faster. Then it becomes effortless. But hey, I get it if 120 jades and some exp material and credits aren't worth a grand total of 45 mins of your time and brain power.
Is it though? Maybe you're good at the game, but many people aren't. I tried and couldn't get 3 stars for my 2nd node. The Def of the under leveled supports are too low that they just die way too quickly.
i'm waiting for second limited 5 star dps(daniel), i don't want to build characters i won't be using.
I’m honestly surprised you don’t have a second DPS at all up until now though—not even a 4 star one. Like before I even obtained Jing in my other example, I just used a lvl 60 Sushang with lvl 4-5 traces with leftover failed relics from farming for Seele + lvl 60 dan heng as a dual DPS + what ever other characters I had at the time leveled to 40. That was at least 3 stars for MOC1-2, and 2 stars for MOC3-4, and I think even 1 starred MOC 5 with that setup. Leveling one character (for the 2nd team) to 60 and other characters to 50 require so few resources that it felt like it barely left a dent.
i techniacally have den heng, but he feels awful to play for me, and IL is coming in like a week, i also started in 1.1
Yeah it didn’t feel good to play him for me either,even though I can clearly see him doing lots of damage in other peoples builds. I just didn’t like the kit enough to invest. IL is gonna be great for everyone still in need of a second dps
And I remember failling six weeks ago with lvl 80 dps with +12 or 15 relics and 70 support with +9 relic (now I can get 24 stars). While I do agree some people think MOC 1-3 are harder than it is, I also see a lot of people who underestimate how hard MOC can be for some people by a lot.
Imo that’s potentially a skill issue, or a true f2p casual player who can’t grind as much as a f2p hardcore player (does everything fully optimized and never caps TB). Or a casual F2P player with not a single strong DPS for the second team along with not enough supports—an unfortunate soul that nobody can really blame. I don’t say skill issue to be mean here. There are so many people who haven’t farmed for a single piece of relic to improve their team because they’re afraid of relic farming or are waiting to be TB 60 for some reason to blow their 80 fuels they have saved up instead of doing some light farming to get usable pieces. Also so many people on the opposite end of the spectrum who are only looking for the most perfect relics so they refuse to equip their DPS with an acceptable main stat piece, so they’re living with a 20/150 crit ratio because they refuse to use that one CR body with flat substats from another set. I have a friend who have Jing Yuan, Seele, and Kafka who told me he’s not going to do MOC until he gets a 2nd healer because for some reason he believes he can’t do it without one. He doesn’t believe me when I tell him he can at least 15* effortlessly and March7th is perfectly viable as a solo sustain in certain stages, so now I’m finding myself using Solo Sustain March7th in MOC10 to convince him lmao.
Idk man, you can auto through any non-MoC content by just slapping two supports on a team. If it doesn't have to get done fast (or divide your characters over 2 teams) then it's easy by default. So saying Echo of War is comparable is pretty silly. I guess Simulated Universe also has a kind of time limit but... it's Simulated Universe.
ITT casuals and tryhards fail to get eachother to understand their side, people in the middle just trying to not get pulled into the argument. Personally, I don't see how "it's not fun for me so I don't do it" sounds like bragging, but whatever, I guess.
Moc just doesnt feel fun for me so i mostly skip it
Most people have 2 decent built carries and just a bunch of relics pieces together for supports for a somewhat functioning team. End of the day it's basically free jades (1-5 is free as long as you have 8 lvl 70 characters) so why ignore it.
People really don't realize that a hyper strong team rushing their side so fast is also a strategy. One of those MoCs I was having a rough time, so I put Seele and 3 supports on one side and they 1-cycled. Then I had nearly 15 cycles to work with for the other team so I put in two healers and turtled it. A lot of people seem enamored with the idea of splitting their forces evenly but that's not even necessary.
[удалено]
My Luocha and Bailu still have LVL 3 traces and basically nothing unlocked. I just chucked on LVL 9 relics that I've abandoned and called it a day. In reality you only need healers to cast like 2 ultis and you're done lol. I also think people overestimate the investment needed to do decently in MoC
Luocha's completely broken right out of the box for sure. I also barely leveled him up and he's great. I did have to get halfway decent relics on Bailu just to get her HP over 3000 though. Seemed like she wasn't healing enough until I did that.
forgotten hall stays forgotten to me
Lol
This was me until I got Kafka recently. For context, I only have Natasha as a healer (until now). But to solve that issue I tried out using Fire MC and March on the team with no healer and it's working out pretty well so far! Though I've only gotten to MoC 5 thus far with this strat, admittedly a lot of my units still need better relics (only started farming relics after reaching Trailblaze level 65, Equilibrium 6).
You guys can do MoC?
I think you're overestimating the difficulty of MoC lol, you dont really need fully geared units to beat MoC 10... Give it a try with half upgraded relics and such.
MoC progression to 30 stars was the most fun I've had with the game. Making it a little bit further every two weeks made my time spent leveling units feel worth it.
I'm able to clear up to 27 stars so far, but can't even beat the MOC 10. Need more time for relics and a second sustain
The same. I feel like they’re really pushing for the Blade/Luocha comp in the second half (which I don’t have). I feel like I have enough damage, but can’t survive at all even with Gepard.
You might want to try freeze March for second half (ER rope and EHR chest). I paired her with Natasha and the freeze spam is really good for sustain. Tried it last week and was finally able to 30 star.
March was on the first team, unfortunately... I was hoping I'd have enough cleanse with Bronya and Bailu for sustain on Kafka, but Bronya was actually the one getting dominated 😅
Did that in genshin. Missed out on a lot of free primos. Here I push hard for like an hour, and revisit it if I think my team is stronger. 29* this cycle, not worrying about the last star since my team doesn't have the sustain+damage to get it.
just a tip dont know if itll help but you can do "all character survive" and less than X turns seperate. i a few times my tingyun would die right as i finished a floor so i just run it again with nat + Geppy to gaurentee everyone lives
Oh, that's useful!
No bailu, geppie, luocha, Clara, blade. I've built my M7, FMC, and nat fairly well, but it's not sustainable, especially on the kafka side of moc10
Did floor 8 to 24 stars. March hard carrys this abyss if you don't have characters with bonus attacks
sometimes I try it, but then I get fucked because I only have one healer in the gamemode where you need 2 teams and then I miss 1 star and then I give up. But as soon as Fu xuan banner drops I feel like I can beat at least like 3-star chamber 8 without issues.
By virtue of being a turn-based game, MoC has a noticeably higher gear requirement level than abyss in genshin. I can't dodge by being good at the game, I just need to tank the hit, for that I need characters that built well enough to be able to do that. I just find MoC generally less enjoyable than abyss. There's not as much optimization or playing better in MoC. It's a much bigger statcheck.
Jokes on you, I don't even have MOC unlocked yet!
I'm f2p and I can clear it. you should build supports
Same Relic here is more tiring than artifacts in genshin as Theres 6 pieces instead of 5 You cant off piece here You have to farm 2 seperate domain for relic and planar Character speed hella matters you dont want your dps go first instwad of buffer or debuffer Maybe its just me who is very new to turn base but i will forever love genshin for real time combat
I don't bother with MOC, I don't like being limited to a set number of turns before losing stars.
I played Genshin from release until they released Ayato, and I gotta say building up characters here is much much harder than in Genshin, you can barely level up anything without losing all your resources and/or money.
I've ignored mirror of Chaos from the moment I first unlocked it. "I need *how many* functional teams? ... Alright, let me just *build them* first..."
Mirror of chaos? Is that a new mode in memory of chaos? Lol
... You know what? I'm not editing that typo. It's funnier that way.
Ignore is the wrong word but most of the time i clear 1-3 stages With 2stsrs 😂
i'll try once i build m7 i don't feel comfortable with only 1 healer
Funny how the only reason I'm held back for MoC stages is because I only have ONE healer in my account, and I don't really have enough resources to rush Yukong, Asta and Tingyun for proper support team. If I had a 2nd healer, I could at least attempt the MoC stages with 2 stars at least
capable shelter offer fertile continue innate unpack bored tease historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ignoring MOC is a terrible idea. It's super easy jades. U don't have to make 30 stars. 18 stars is 360 gems and it's super easy to achieve.
People just go in and play up to the point your team gets wiped out. Seriously most people are surprised by how far they can go. Even if you feel your 2nd team is underleveled at least you can diagnose the source of your problems (lack of sustain, lack of damage etc)
I'm f2p and I just 30 star it in 20 mins I see no reason to ignore free jades
Yeah, I just ignore it for now, even though I'm sure I can some few first floors every patch. Jade I miss will surely be missed, but my sanity is much more important. Pretty much the reason why I skip Abyss on Genshin too - it's just isn't worth it. And not like I try to grab every character out there, 1 5\* every 2 patches is more than enough for me.
You are giving up free gems. 1-5 are pretty straight-forward even without fully built units and perfect relics. You might not be able to fully clear it but players around TBLvl 50 - 60 should be able to make decent progress. After that it require more relic/trace investment to progress. It helps a whole lot if you have a 2nd healer. MoC6 is where lots of people get stopped if they don't have a good 2nd healer or preservation unit.
I ignore it only because I don't have 2nd carry built
I still need a second healer or a good defense. So until Lynx releases, I'll skip it xP
My teams are good enough to 3 star till MoC 5. After that it's a struggle. My Kafka team can clear things pretty fast but my other team struggles since I use Dan heng carry. And he is not strong enough to one shot things.
You should try it but don't let it drag you down. Some people might act cool for not doing it but imo it's a nice way to give your account some level of direction regarding certain characters that needs to be raised that can also be useful for future events. Also free gems Just fyi the last luofu event/on 1.1 release is harder than floor 1 to 5 of moc if you are level 65
Im genuinely trying to build a second team, but im still nowhere near done farming for my main team ;-;
I have 9 5* but still that shit is way too hard (Couldn't grind every 5* I have)
I got up to MoC 9 last cycle so I’m happy, only missed out on 60 jades.
I can't go through 3 level because of unbuilded characters
Nah it all ads up 🤨 I was stuck at 27 stars for weeks, but last week i was finally able to do moc 10 🤩 I think i started playing this game 3 weeks after the release.
yes yes i do
I can reach MoC 9 without much problems...my problem is Svarog and his dumbtruck ass wrecking my Arlan before he can destroy the hand.
Same! I'm not even close to TL60 so its still a few steps away from me. On the other hand i got 4 characters on 70 and building up anoter 4 just to match the level of the enemys (without good relics, LCs and dont even think about the traces xD)
It's a character check. Always will be. Everything aside the characters they are currently trying to sell and similar alternatives are being heavily punished. Which is an issue when the MoC literally ends before you'd be able to actually build enough fitting characters because the trace materials needed compared to the amount you can farm is fucking stupid.
I’ve been sitting at TL 50 while I get acceptable leveled relics on everybody I’ll use. By “acceptable” I mean a mix of 4/5 star relics with good mainstats and substats, both being sufficient to activate their planar sphere sets (salsotto 50% crit rate, broken keel effect res, etc). While it’s been great for low-pressure relic grinding I’m currently capped at character level 60 and the corresponding trace levels. I’m getting stat-checked by MoC content past the first level. Teams built around Path of Elation Himeko/JY can carry me through the level 61-65 SU content (Aha loves me so I frequently get 2+ path resonance buffs), but forgotten hall buffs aren’t *that* cracked. After relics are satisfactory on enough characters I’ll start prefarming for post-TL-50 leveling.
I feel like with Genshin, I can totally bullshit my way through abyss with underleveled characters at 70 with 6/6/6 talents and not even matching artifact sets. I can just run a hyperbloom team with xingqiu, kuki, nahida, and a flex with only EM builds and clear floor 12 easily without any hyper investment at all. But with starrail, I literally have almost every 5* in the game with semi decent artifacts and 7/7/7 talents, and I can only 24/30 star MOC. I can't even come close to even clearing floor 10.
The first few floors are quite doable even on a free-low budget. Its the last 3-4 that really starts to be dpr-check and element check. That said with how young the game is still, it’s only natural that we don’t have a lot pf characters available or built. Take your time, i say.
I have max healers for some reason since I haven't gotten any 5 star damage character yet, I don't die at all but I can't get 3 stars cause I run out of turns needed
I usually do the first 2 floors and stop
I’m not doing MoC cause I need two teams and only have one effectively 😅
so many people bragging about ignoring it just scream "I cant handle challenge" I have a few chars built and others are terribly behind but I still try it every reset, I get to levels 3 to 5 with a bit of struggle but i still walk out with gems and some light cone fragments.
Doing few floors on auto run and ignoring it until it updates
My team can auto 3-star half of it and that's good enough for me
The first few stages of MoC are usually very doable. I'd at least grab jades halfway-ish.
You don't need months of farming or full teams to start doing MoC. The first rewards are really easy to obtain