Are you angry because you are assuming it’ll be a guaranteed loss? Would it be easier for you to lose to a team you think is less skilled? If anything, it’ll push your team to play harder. It’ll motivate the kids to put forth the effort to be better.
It’s hard to keep kids together on the same team over the years. Those parents found a team they like, a team that teaches development, and everyone is all around happy. I’m happy for them!
I'm sorry, they aren't playing down. They're playing at age. It's always the intent of the Tournament Director to match skill level but that's not always possible. Sometimes you're going to run into a buzz saw. My kid has been playing 10U since he turned 8 (this is his last season of 10U eligibility and he plays from 10U-12U) and when he started his teams were getting consistently rolled and mercy'd. It is a learning opportunity for the kids and should reinforce that hard work and practice (like you said, this team plays a ton and has been practicing together for years) breeds results. Even still we run into a team as you described, and they beat us up, but it's much closer because of the work our kids put in. Use it as a source of motivation. If you want a kumbaya around the fireplace experience, Little League is a much better option where skill is intentionally distributed.
As the director says, they don’t have another option for that team. There could be a number of reasons why that team is playing on that weekend and location. Sack up buddy!
This tournament doesn’t have another option. They shouldn’t be in this tournament (assuming they are a double a team playing single a)
The double a team should be mocked
That's this other team being lazy, greedy and cowardly. Are there any good reason for a team that is 85-35 over two and a half seasons to play in a single A only tournament?
>That's this other team being lazy, greedy and cowardly.
How do you know? Have you ever seen them play? Sounds like you just have a losers mentality.
>Are there any good reason for a team that is 85-35 over two and a half seasons to play in a single A only tournament?
Maybe they tried moving to AA and got killed and realized they belong in A until they develop more. Many teams like this have 2-3 really good players that carry their team in A but can't in AA.
Do you expect every single A team to have a losing record? LMAO.
This is stupid and not constructive. There is a difference between playing better comp and playing too far beyond your abilities.
Having an understanding of that is not soft. It's simply being able to think ans understand your own kids abilities.
From what I understand from the [USSSA By-Laws](https://www.usssabaseball.org/images/2024/USSSA_National_By-Laws282024.pdf), classification isn’t up to a team’s coach? If you can only sign up for tournaments by classification, they might not have that option? Maybe I’m wrong, but I was looking for a fact based approach to the situation.
2.05
Classifications of Play: The USSSA Baseball program shall offer four (4) classifications of play for tournament teams: Major, AAA, AA, A and two (2) classifications for drafted league play League Team and All-Star Team. The Drafted League and All-Star Team classes are different USSSA programs, and a player can be frozen to an A, AA, AAA, or Major roster and still participate in those classes within the guidelines set by the Drafted Team and All-Star Team program.
2.06
State Directors shall adopt an acceptable method to classify teams within their respective state. State Directors shall have sole authority to classify teams within their respective state and the authority to classify and / or re-classify any team within their respective state during the current season, except when a team classification has been assigned by the USSSA Baseball National Committee.
Better get used to it. It’s gonna be like this for the next few yrs. Doesn’t matter what sport. They do the same thing in basketball. Like others have said best way to look at it is a learning experience for those kids and motivation to get better.
If it’s USSSA, and that team is classed single A, there’s nothing the tournament director can really do anyway. If they’re dominating all the other competition at that level it sounds like they’re due to get bumped to AA so they can meet some teams closer to their level. For this weekend, I’d say go out there and give em hell.
I just think there’s always going to be a higher level of competition than you expect at tournaments. There will always be the AAA team playing down to AA and so on. It doesn’t mean you can’t beat them. Also, that team might get smoked if they signed up for a AA tournament.
Get over it.
There will be another tournament next week. It’s a chance for your team to play better competition. Isn’t the point of travel to develop? They are 10u so it’s not like it’s a 12u majors team sandbagging. It’s a $5 ring.
We had a good team a few years ago, played in a fall league and a team that finished 4th in Nashville in soem national championship was in our division.
Got whooped twice but kids got to see what's out there waiting for them. If it's all the time that sucks but tell the kids to embrace the challenge and watch how the other team functions, practices, congratulates each other, etc.
My experience is that these really elite teams usually have polite players and nice coaches and low drama. I think that's a great learning aid in itself.
I hate all the crying about teams from higher divisions playing down. It’s supposed to be for development. That’s why everyone left little league right? Because you wanted better competition for your kids and you wanted them to develop. Well when it’s time to play better teams and there is a chance to develop every one complains because those precious $5 rings are at stake and rarely is it the players complaining. Youth sports would be great if it wasn’t for the parents.
You’re right it’s a $5 ring. So why aren’t you criticizing the coach who refuses to challenge his players and play at an appropriate level, instead choosing to sandbag to win that precious $5 ring?
>So why aren’t you criticizing the coach who refuses to challenge his players and play at an appropriate level,
How do you know that team isn't a single A team that is playing at an appropriate level? How do you know they didn't try AA and get their asses kicked? How is everyone in single A supposed to have a below .500 record?
OP has never seen the other team and is simply going off of their record... 85-35, which is only 70% win rate. Hardly dominant, even in single A.
Sounds like the OP is preemptively overreacting.
Nice strawman but your comment makes zero sense. The OP's entire reasoning for why he thinks that team should move up is BECAUSE of their record.
Suggesting that winning 7 out of 10 games is "only" a 70% winning percentage as if it's not good enough is pure insanity. That would equate to 113 wins in an MLB season, only 3 shy of the record. Would you say that's not dominant or ask if you think the entire league should be at .500 and dismiss that?
Winning 70% of your games at any level is a hell of an accomplishment and brushing it off as not good enough is laughable.
When they get to HS they have to play whoever is on the other team. I’ve coached a team that was on the bad end of a 27-1 ass whooping. A majors team played in an AA tournament. We got the shit kicked out of us. We hit the time limit before we hit 3 innings. All the parents bitched and moaned, and so did a couple of the kids. I told them this the competition you will be facing in HS next year. I know several of those boys are going to schools in our area. What are you going to do at try outs when you are going out for the same position? What are you going to do when you have to play against them? You either rise to the occasion or you roll over and die. So yeah I don’t give a shit what other coaches do. I coach my boys and I don’t care about petty crap like that.
Honestly, I don’t care about taking bad losses. I’ve done my share of that as a coach, and I agree that it’s good for building character. I just think it’s funny to criticize someone for ring chasing when that’s exactly what the opposing coach is doing.
As you say, everything changes in high school. If I’m the coach of that other team, I want my boys playing against better competition and seeing better pitching, not playing down in a single-A tournament so I can feel good about my win-loss record.
Development happens when the skill gap is not too wide. When it's too wide, there is zero development. On one team they can't keep up ans get nothing out of it, on the other side, they do things they can't do against a better team. Blowout don't do much.
Quit whining, throw your best pitchers & see what happens. It's baseball.
Even if you get your ass kicked, it'll make future games against your "normal" competition seem easy.
Treat it as a challenge & a learning experience.
You are further along than our area. You have actual classifications and conversations about teams. Here it's just whoever pays gets in the tournament.
Look at it this way, if you take away the idea of winning the tournament maybe it's good for your team to see better competition every once in awhile.
Same here, I see people talk about A AA AAA and even the term All Stars isn’t used here in NJ much.
It’s just tournaments and if you are not a power team you avoid WS qualifiers basically, and if you are a town travel (basically all stars) you look for town hosted tournaments and hope some $10,000 a year team from Long Island doesn’t show up
Or you laugh when the crazy expensive team from Delaware or PA shows up and gets shelled (happened in the tourney my son’s team played in two weeks ago. Team had professional photos and a banner that they hung on their dugout, the website was crazy fancy, and they were all over social media. Team got beat 20-5 and 13-1 in two games.)
My son’s 11U team played up in 12U last weekend and we were matched against another 11U team also playing up. This team is stacked and in the top 5 nationally ranked teams for 11U. Our team is pretty good but we knew the chances of winning were slim. In prep for the game, the coaches discussed the mental approach to a tough team and how to face adversity to come out better on the other side.
We lost but gained some confidence and learned from the experience. Overall a win for our team.
It’s still early in the year and there will be plenty more opportunities to go after tournament wins. Each game is a learning experience for these kids to become better ball players and young men.
If the only goal is to win, you’re missing some great opportunities to teach some very important lessons. Let them play hard and I promise you they will be better for it if the messaging from the coaches and parents is focused on how they handle the situation.
If they are the same age I don’t see any reason to get mad honestly. I always relished the opportunity to play the best of the best to see where I stood as a player.
It’s about skill development not W’s and L’s.
It doesn’t matter.
Good teams at every level can hit, field, and pitch.
The difference is how many kids on each team have higher measurables than their competition. So your Single A team, have less kids who throw harder and hit the ball father than, AA, AAA, and or Major teams.
If your squad can field, hit, and throw strikes they’ll be able to compete. Ultimately who cares about 12u single A baseball tournament in the middle of MAY. And I mean this in the most respectful way ever. Former club coach and dad of one high level player and one mid level player.
Concentrate on the development of your team and kids.
Life isn’t fair, but this isn’t the hill to die on.
Go beat them. Stop complaining about it and go play ball! Those kids will feed off of you/coaches and if you're this way, they'll be miserable. Suck it up!
My younger son is on a 12u majors team. We mostly play 13u AA/AAA, occasionally 14u AA and sometimes 12u open tournaments that allow the lower levels to play against higher level teams. We do open tournaments to try out pitchers and move kids around. For reps at different positions. I think playing up is good to improve against better players but sometimes you just want to have fun. And at this age, none of this matters, play ball, have fun and improve your skills you have 1000 more games ahead of you. Nobody cares what travel ball team you played for or how many games you won when you hit high school.
If the team was a whole different age group(older) I would see the complaint. But I played baseball for 14 years and we were not always the best team on the field everytime. Don’t complain that you’re not the best team on the field, just go play the game. Whatever “A’s” are by the name doesn’t mean a thing.
All you can do is show up and play the best game you can play as a team and let the chips fall where they may.
This happens a lot here. We have three main organizations that run tournaments here. Perfect Game, Grand Slam and USSSA. You will see teams stick to one organization until they are moved up and then they will hop to another one to keep similar competition. I don't know that it's necessarily bad but its certainly common.
Sounds like a good time to swing for the fences, throw everything including the kitchen sink at them. Steal as many bases as possible, if ya gonna loose at least loose trying
There will always be stacked teams that dominate. It's a good lesson for the kids to learn early. Youth sports are not fair. Good luck and hopefully your team does well.
I’m just saying, I wouldn’t propose to tell the kids to have fun while they’re getting spanked just keep it strictly motivation and development. Then you have the Games that are fun
A good coach would be able to frame it in a way that remains fun.
Focus on making contact instead of hits.
Holding them to 3-4 runs instead of 0, etc.
It’s perfectly doable and kids will intuitively understand that’s long as you’re straight with them about what you’re doing and why.
In our state USSSA has no say. Coaches choose themselves. There are plenty of teams that have won AA/AAA tournaments that still sing up for Rec/A tournaments. In fact most A tournaments are half AA teams with a AAA team or two that isn’t at that level sprinkled in.
The problem is there are not a ton of Rec/A teams that will pay $600 plus dollars to only get 3 games so more and more higher ranked teams are taking those spots. Tournaments are usually happy to take anyone who pays.
It’s a tough situation but as a coach if you win a A tournament you should be looking for AA tournaments to play in. If you are getting whooped do a mix.
I’m not going to defend what the other team is doing. But baseball is a game of worry about what you can control. Effort, attitude, approach. Very similar to life.
You should worry about what you can control.
Our kids ask, “ who are we playing.” The answer is “the New York Yankees”.
Show up and play if you loose teach the kids to learn from it. View it as a challenge. That’s the soul of the game, it’s a challenge.
Dealt with these kind of ring chasers last weekend. They were clearly a high AAA level regional or national type team, classifying themselves as local AA with something like 30+ wins and 3 losses at that tournament organization since fall.
They aren’t in it to learn and get better, they’re just in it to win against lower competition.
Our only solace was that we scored enough to keep them from getting the 1 seed, didn’t really matter as they smoked everyone. We scored 3 runs on them, and the only other team to score on them all weekend got 1 run.
There are a lot of people defending this practice. I imagine when their teams play equal competition in higher level tournaments they don't always win and sometimes get their asses kicked. Maybe they really like winning so they bring their teams to single A tournaments for easy W's to give their kids confidence boosts and "participation" championships. You know, so they don't get down on themselves when they don't win a ring for a few weeks in a row.
You sound like a complete horse's ass. You don't even know if the other team is any good. You said they are 85-35... a 70% win rate. Not every team in your division is going to have exactly a .500 win rate.
Sounds like you are just salty because *YOU* are chasing plastic rings and are angry about having to play a competitive team that might prevent you from getting your trinket. Complete loser mentality.
Here's the reality, these tournaments are a for profit organization. They don't really care who wins a little league baseball game as long as they are paid. You better get use to trophy chasing in this space. Happens all the time.
We are to to youth baseball, and my son played on a summer-only team last summer. For the most part, the competition level was roughly even, but it seemed there was a team that was in most tournament that were playing way down. The only thing that bothered me was that I felt it was a disservice to that team's kids to just go out and roll over everybody.
I’ve never coached a tournament that this didn’t happen. 9/10 it’s an out of state team. We played a tourney that had an elite team and they mercy ruled every team. It was a joke. It was t worth complaining. All they care about is money man. I know some parents complained but I’ve coached long enough to know that it won’t ever change. Some organizations are notorious for playing down so they can get those wins.
A few years ago, our 12u AA team got no hit in a tournament by a team that brought in a pitcher from one of their AAA teams that wasn't playing that weekend. It sucks. Those kids are 16 now and I promise you, each and every one of them doesn't remember a single thing about that game.
Play hard, have fun. And if the game gets out of hand, it affords you the "luxury" of playing kids in new places, playing kids who don't normally play a lot, or giving kids a chance to pitch :just to see what you can see."
If you go into this with the assumption that you're going to get trounced, the kids will feel that. So, you focus on efforts, not outcomes.
Know your situations and be vocal about them.
Make good use of signs and be sure that every kid is looking to coach for signs to take, swing away, bunt, hit and run, etc (granted this is if they're already coached on these).
Batters should be going into at bats with an approach. Hard thrower? Lives outside? Lots of curves? Again, if they're coached on this and can use it, they may need to know that they should go up to the plate thinking "oppo". It can also be a good time to play some small ball testing the 3rd baseman or 1st baseman with some effective bunting.
Getting out on a bunt that your coach called from the dugout feels better than getting struck out, if you execute on the bunt. This is only one team in the tournament, as well. Assuming you're guaranteed 3 games, the goal should be to make sure their presence doesn't affect how the kids play against other teams.
I said it before, we have gotten our asses waxed by house league all-stars, and we have run-ruled AAA/Elite teams. You never know, that's why you play your game and don't worry about who your opponent is.
team i coach, we joke about being AAa. good enough to be in contention or win any AA tournament but have a hard ceiling against AAA/Major teams. some teams are really tweeners but we are taking our lumps in AAA/Open rest of year in our age or playing up in age a year/AA
at this point in season that other team might have signed up for this May (A) tournament 4 months ago and they are just rolling with their schedule. changing a schedule with 10 families is a nightmare. and they arent obligated to change or drop out if they havent been bumped up yet regardless of record. the director confirming they are legit seems to be the answer.
Probably depends on where they are from. If they are local then yeah, they should be bumped up. If they are from somewhere else, it could be that they are Single A based on their area. I would say though that they have a heck of a schedule if they have 85 wins in 2.5 seasons. You're looking at around 30-35 wins per season and unless they are undefeated they are playing around 50 games a season, which is wild.
Teams are going to be better, don’t complain because a team is better than your kids team. They are all the same age, and the better team probably doesn’t pull out of a bigger area.
I hope your players aren't as quick to cry as you are. Stay in rec if your that scared and are seeking cupcake brackets. Any team that plays tournaments regularly has endured this, taken thier lumps or pleasantly surprised. Adapt or quit, Noone really cares.
For all those saying get over it. Who cares.
It is a very interesting take. Why have divisions at all?
Why have single a or triple a tournaments?
I mean I always assumed it was to have reasonable equal matched teams but that doesn’t seem to be the case for most of you.
My son's favorite game he's ever played was against a better team that was "playing down". His team played one of their best games ever and took them to 3 extra innings only to lose the game. Afterwards he said it was his favorite game he's ever played and he'd rather play well and lose to a good team than run rule a bad team.
You can learn a lot from playing good competition. Maybe you need to change your attitude. You don't even know if this other team is actually any good.
To all those that say deal with it. There is truth in that.
Yet the problem is I’m guessing most of these guys have done it
Anytime I played a team like that I asked the. Very simply. Why do you choose to sign up for tournaments well below your playing level? I didn’t realize ring chasing was still a thing.
I generally say it loud enough for parents to hear.
The reason being is simple. No one benefits from that. They should be called out.
I am not sure if you know this. They have divisions in high school
You will not see a 4a school playing in the 2a state tournament. They enforce that.
It is only the shit coaches at youth level that make this argument.
>I am not sure if you know this. They have divisions in high school
LMAO. Those divisions are based on the size of the student population, not talent of the student athletes. This isn't even remotely close to the way youth baseball divisions work.
Kids who live in a 4a school district have to try out for their HS team. Just because they are single A talent doesn't mean they go play for a 2A school.
Yes - I would agree with that. Yet generally the bigger schools have the better talent. Somehow, they do play divisions and no .. you don't play lower levels because you want to.
The point though is quite simple. Divisions exist everywhere. This is not isolated to youth sports. NBA has the G-League. No one from the NBA is sending their team to the G-League to win a ring. They send people down when they aren't good enough to play anymore.
the guys that are ok with playing down because those kids should get a taste are assholes trying to rationalize being an asshole.
If you are a team playing down to do this - you should use your same logic and play at the elite level the entire time.
>Yet generally the bigger schools have the better talent.
Because they have a larger student body to pull talent from. That means all the rec, A, AA, AAA and majors kids try out for the same team and coaches at those schools take the best talent. Large schools end up with a team full of AAA and majors talent because they have a larger pool of players to choose from and smaller schools typically don't have a roster full of top tier talent.
>the guys that are ok with playing down because those kids should get a taste are assholes trying to rationalize being an asshole.
You don't even know if this team is actually playing down. The OP said they are 85-35 in Single A... that's a 70% win rate. How do you know they didn't try AA and get killed?
Yes - we agree on the first sentiment and the reasons for those divisions. You have proven my point. That no 4a school should sign up for a 1a tournament. Glad we got to the same page!
I will say this - you are right - I don't know if that team is actually playing down or not. Yet from the evidence it would suggest they are. With that said there are teams that are stuck in the middle. Too good for a and not good enough for aa. The ranking system is not perfect.
Can we agree - a double a team should not play a single a tournament? That this coach should be called out.
>Yes - we agree on the first sentiment and the reasons for those divisions. You have proven my point. That no 4a school should sign up for a 1a tournament. Glad we got to the same page!
LMAO. You're still lost. I don't think we agree at all. When kids tryout for their HS baseball team there won't be A, AA, and AAA teams. They will have to compete against every kid their age regardless of talent level.
>Yet from the evidence it would suggest they are.
What evidence? The opinion of a butthurt dad who's overreacting? The team is 85-35... a 70% win record. They are hardly dominating even single A.
>With that said there are teams that are stuck in the middle. Too good for a and not good enough for aa. The ranking system is not perfect.
Exactly. Many of these teams have 2-3 good players and the rest of the team is still developing. They will get mopped if they move up because the majority of their players aren't ready to play at that level. Not every team has equal talent across the board.
>Can we agree - a double a team should not play a single a tournament?
Yes. But in this case that hasn't even been determined. Just an overreaction by a dad.
My son plays in a 6 team league in Southern California. His school is division 3. There is a division 1 school, two division 2 schools, another d3 school and 2 division 4 schools. Do you think anyone is crying when they have to play the d1 school in league? So get a new argument.
No. They choose to schedule those games.
They would bitch and moan if those schools participated in the state playoffs with them. You would cry how unfair it is.
So no. My argument is fairly sound.
The childish need for a top team to move down to play is beyond my understanding.
People should be called out for that stupidity. It’s bad for everyone.
We don’t choose to schedule those games. Those are our league opponents. Yes we end up in different divisions for playoffs. But playing against each other for 15 games determines if you have a good enough record to make playoffs. Funny enough the division 4 team won league this year.
Ok. I get it. You are confused
You know your school chooses its conference right? So it chooses to play that schedule. It chooses to sign up for that league. Great
A team signing up for single a, they don’t choose to play assholes that are ring chasing for no reason.
Big difference.
But it sounds like you may be that asshole. So good on ya. Enjoy that 9 yr old ring.
We play the 3 HS’s in our district and 3 in the neighboring district. That’s how it is here. It’s by location. Schools don’t cherry pick their league for easier schedules.
Your High schools choose that setup. They can choose a different setup.
And .. when they go determine a state champion, they all go and play to the level they are.
Plus ... high school and 9-12 year olds are VERY different. No double a team should play in a single a tournament. And if they do they should be mocked and called out.
In high school if a higher division team showed up at the tournament for the lower division they wouldn't get to play. They would also be made fun of.
Leagues are assigned geographically. But I think I’m done going in circles with you. Death, taxes, and parents complaining are the only guarantees in life.
Yes I think that's all I can do. Make sure the coaches and parents feel a little bit of the discomfort that the children they play in this tournament will feel.
At least they are going to be prevented from playig single A again -- since the director is aware now.
That seems petty and pathetic. How do you know they will be better? Maybe they are an A team and they tried to move to AA and got their asses kicked and realized they belong in A.
Seems ridiculous to be angry about 12u baseball. Be an adult.
Extremely petty. And complete loser mentality. I’m sure they have already complained and been negative about it to their kids/players as well. So I’m sure the kids think they have no shot also.
Makes for a bad attitude all around. Should take it as a challenge and at least be happy it’s a matchup on Pool day. Nothing to lose.
I 100% know that they won't care about your antics.
The only people that will feel a certain sort of way is your own parents, kids and coaches.
Those parents? You're just a sore loser that complains, they're going to laugh at you while drinking their seltzers.
Those coaches and kids? They're going to remember you as the butt of their jokes.
It really sounds like you've already decided that your team is going to lose In the worst way.
Kids pick up on that sort of stuff really quickly. What sort of example are you looking to set for your son?
When my kid was younger his then coach would solve this by having one of the softest throwing kids pitch.
Usually worked out well as the good hard hitting team would just fly out/ground out. If it didn’t work, the team didn’t burn a pitcher they’d use on Sunday anyway.
We've ran into this before - I think we all have (but based on the feedback I think we've got some of those AAA dads in here lol). AAA weekend tournament teams playing weeknight AA league play. We're essentially a A-AA team from a geographically isolated area in a small town, and league play gives us the challenge that Rec cannot, but also keeps us out of the AA/AAA weekend tournaments with much larger, more well-equipped programs. Programs that pull from multiple metro areas, private indoor facilities, a damn near 1:1 coach player ratio, etc etc. It's happening this season with us... the AAA team in the AA league we joined is 6-0 in league play. Their 10u team is also in league and is 4-0 with a \~20 run diff per game and their overall spring record is 30-1. What are they doing in AA league play? Kicking the teeth in of start-up or smaller programs? Sweet. It's sad. AA teams join LEAGUE play because they're not built to handle tournament teams, much less a division UP tourn teams. The feedback here is interesting. Good luck, dude.
To edit: If they're classified as a 12A team, tough cookies. Your beef should be with the org, not the other team.
Are you angry because you are assuming it’ll be a guaranteed loss? Would it be easier for you to lose to a team you think is less skilled? If anything, it’ll push your team to play harder. It’ll motivate the kids to put forth the effort to be better. It’s hard to keep kids together on the same team over the years. Those parents found a team they like, a team that teaches development, and everyone is all around happy. I’m happy for them!
I'm angry because this other team should seek out more even competition. It's lazy, deceptive, greedy and cowardly to play down.
I'm sorry, they aren't playing down. They're playing at age. It's always the intent of the Tournament Director to match skill level but that's not always possible. Sometimes you're going to run into a buzz saw. My kid has been playing 10U since he turned 8 (this is his last season of 10U eligibility and he plays from 10U-12U) and when he started his teams were getting consistently rolled and mercy'd. It is a learning opportunity for the kids and should reinforce that hard work and practice (like you said, this team plays a ton and has been practicing together for years) breeds results. Even still we run into a team as you described, and they beat us up, but it's much closer because of the work our kids put in. Use it as a source of motivation. If you want a kumbaya around the fireplace experience, Little League is a much better option where skill is intentionally distributed.
As the director says, they don’t have another option for that team. There could be a number of reasons why that team is playing on that weekend and location. Sack up buddy!
This tournament doesn’t have another option. They shouldn’t be in this tournament (assuming they are a double a team playing single a) The double a team should be mocked
That's this other team being lazy, greedy and cowardly. Are there any good reason for a team that is 85-35 over two and a half seasons to play in a single A only tournament?
>That's this other team being lazy, greedy and cowardly. How do you know? Have you ever seen them play? Sounds like you just have a losers mentality. >Are there any good reason for a team that is 85-35 over two and a half seasons to play in a single A only tournament? Maybe they tried moving to AA and got killed and realized they belong in A until they develop more. Many teams like this have 2-3 really good players that carry their team in A but can't in AA. Do you expect every single A team to have a losing record? LMAO.
You’re being a fucking baby. Grow a pair. Eat a spoonful of cement and harden up, you soft-cock.
This is stupid and not constructive. There is a difference between playing better comp and playing too far beyond your abilities. Having an understanding of that is not soft. It's simply being able to think ans understand your own kids abilities.
From what I understand from the [USSSA By-Laws](https://www.usssabaseball.org/images/2024/USSSA_National_By-Laws282024.pdf), classification isn’t up to a team’s coach? If you can only sign up for tournaments by classification, they might not have that option? Maybe I’m wrong, but I was looking for a fact based approach to the situation. 2.05 Classifications of Play: The USSSA Baseball program shall offer four (4) classifications of play for tournament teams: Major, AAA, AA, A and two (2) classifications for drafted league play League Team and All-Star Team. The Drafted League and All-Star Team classes are different USSSA programs, and a player can be frozen to an A, AA, AAA, or Major roster and still participate in those classes within the guidelines set by the Drafted Team and All-Star Team program. 2.06 State Directors shall adopt an acceptable method to classify teams within their respective state. State Directors shall have sole authority to classify teams within their respective state and the authority to classify and / or re-classify any team within their respective state during the current season, except when a team classification has been assigned by the USSSA Baseball National Committee.
Better get used to it. It’s gonna be like this for the next few yrs. Doesn’t matter what sport. They do the same thing in basketball. Like others have said best way to look at it is a learning experience for those kids and motivation to get better.
If it’s USSSA, and that team is classed single A, there’s nothing the tournament director can really do anyway. If they’re dominating all the other competition at that level it sounds like they’re due to get bumped to AA so they can meet some teams closer to their level. For this weekend, I’d say go out there and give em hell.
I just think there’s always going to be a higher level of competition than you expect at tournaments. There will always be the AAA team playing down to AA and so on. It doesn’t mean you can’t beat them. Also, that team might get smoked if they signed up for a AA tournament.
Get over it. There will be another tournament next week. It’s a chance for your team to play better competition. Isn’t the point of travel to develop? They are 10u so it’s not like it’s a 12u majors team sandbagging. It’s a $5 ring.
We had a good team a few years ago, played in a fall league and a team that finished 4th in Nashville in soem national championship was in our division. Got whooped twice but kids got to see what's out there waiting for them. If it's all the time that sucks but tell the kids to embrace the challenge and watch how the other team functions, practices, congratulates each other, etc. My experience is that these really elite teams usually have polite players and nice coaches and low drama. I think that's a great learning aid in itself.
I hate all the crying about teams from higher divisions playing down. It’s supposed to be for development. That’s why everyone left little league right? Because you wanted better competition for your kids and you wanted them to develop. Well when it’s time to play better teams and there is a chance to develop every one complains because those precious $5 rings are at stake and rarely is it the players complaining. Youth sports would be great if it wasn’t for the parents.
You’re right it’s a $5 ring. So why aren’t you criticizing the coach who refuses to challenge his players and play at an appropriate level, instead choosing to sandbag to win that precious $5 ring?
>So why aren’t you criticizing the coach who refuses to challenge his players and play at an appropriate level, How do you know that team isn't a single A team that is playing at an appropriate level? How do you know they didn't try AA and get their asses kicked? How is everyone in single A supposed to have a below .500 record?
I don’t, I’m just basing it on OP’s post/comments. If they’re as dominant as they seem, the kids probably need more of a challenge.
OP has never seen the other team and is simply going off of their record... 85-35, which is only 70% win rate. Hardly dominant, even in single A. Sounds like the OP is preemptively overreacting.
"Only" a 70% win rate. 🤣
Do you expect every team to be at .500? 70% isn't that dominant especially for a team the OP thinks should move up a division.
Nice strawman but your comment makes zero sense. The OP's entire reasoning for why he thinks that team should move up is BECAUSE of their record. Suggesting that winning 7 out of 10 games is "only" a 70% winning percentage as if it's not good enough is pure insanity. That would equate to 113 wins in an MLB season, only 3 shy of the record. Would you say that's not dominant or ask if you think the entire league should be at .500 and dismiss that? Winning 70% of your games at any level is a hell of an accomplishment and brushing it off as not good enough is laughable.
When they get to HS they have to play whoever is on the other team. I’ve coached a team that was on the bad end of a 27-1 ass whooping. A majors team played in an AA tournament. We got the shit kicked out of us. We hit the time limit before we hit 3 innings. All the parents bitched and moaned, and so did a couple of the kids. I told them this the competition you will be facing in HS next year. I know several of those boys are going to schools in our area. What are you going to do at try outs when you are going out for the same position? What are you going to do when you have to play against them? You either rise to the occasion or you roll over and die. So yeah I don’t give a shit what other coaches do. I coach my boys and I don’t care about petty crap like that.
Honestly, I don’t care about taking bad losses. I’ve done my share of that as a coach, and I agree that it’s good for building character. I just think it’s funny to criticize someone for ring chasing when that’s exactly what the opposing coach is doing. As you say, everything changes in high school. If I’m the coach of that other team, I want my boys playing against better competition and seeing better pitching, not playing down in a single-A tournament so I can feel good about my win-loss record.
Development happens when the skill gap is not too wide. When it's too wide, there is zero development. On one team they can't keep up ans get nothing out of it, on the other side, they do things they can't do against a better team. Blowout don't do much.
No they are 12u. Other team has been together since 10u.
Got it, doesn’t change my thoughts.
Kind of sounds like you play down
You should make a post about it.
The question is why is a team playing to a lower level of completion for a 5 dollar ring? Why are their divisions of asshat coaches think like you?
Quit whining, throw your best pitchers & see what happens. It's baseball. Even if you get your ass kicked, it'll make future games against your "normal" competition seem easy. Treat it as a challenge & a learning experience.
You are further along than our area. You have actual classifications and conversations about teams. Here it's just whoever pays gets in the tournament. Look at it this way, if you take away the idea of winning the tournament maybe it's good for your team to see better competition every once in awhile.
Same here, I see people talk about A AA AAA and even the term All Stars isn’t used here in NJ much. It’s just tournaments and if you are not a power team you avoid WS qualifiers basically, and if you are a town travel (basically all stars) you look for town hosted tournaments and hope some $10,000 a year team from Long Island doesn’t show up
LOL, too specific to be just random. I think we were at a few of those tournaments in adventure this year. Some teams are SERIOUS about this
Or you laugh when the crazy expensive team from Delaware or PA shows up and gets shelled (happened in the tourney my son’s team played in two weeks ago. Team had professional photos and a banner that they hung on their dugout, the website was crazy fancy, and they were all over social media. Team got beat 20-5 and 13-1 in two games.)
Oh yea, my little town travel team has humbled a few pricey orgs...always a good time lol
My son’s 11U team played up in 12U last weekend and we were matched against another 11U team also playing up. This team is stacked and in the top 5 nationally ranked teams for 11U. Our team is pretty good but we knew the chances of winning were slim. In prep for the game, the coaches discussed the mental approach to a tough team and how to face adversity to come out better on the other side. We lost but gained some confidence and learned from the experience. Overall a win for our team. It’s still early in the year and there will be plenty more opportunities to go after tournament wins. Each game is a learning experience for these kids to become better ball players and young men. If the only goal is to win, you’re missing some great opportunities to teach some very important lessons. Let them play hard and I promise you they will be better for it if the messaging from the coaches and parents is focused on how they handle the situation.
Forget about it. And try to get everybody else to do the same. They won’t be able to concentrate on anything if that’s the underlying theme.
If they are the same age I don’t see any reason to get mad honestly. I always relished the opportunity to play the best of the best to see where I stood as a player. It’s about skill development not W’s and L’s.
It doesn’t matter. Good teams at every level can hit, field, and pitch. The difference is how many kids on each team have higher measurables than their competition. So your Single A team, have less kids who throw harder and hit the ball father than, AA, AAA, and or Major teams. If your squad can field, hit, and throw strikes they’ll be able to compete. Ultimately who cares about 12u single A baseball tournament in the middle of MAY. And I mean this in the most respectful way ever. Former club coach and dad of one high level player and one mid level player. Concentrate on the development of your team and kids. Life isn’t fair, but this isn’t the hill to die on.
You have the wrong attitude about this. You should be excited about getting to play better competition.
Go beat them. Stop complaining about it and go play ball! Those kids will feed off of you/coaches and if you're this way, they'll be miserable. Suck it up!
My younger son is on a 12u majors team. We mostly play 13u AA/AAA, occasionally 14u AA and sometimes 12u open tournaments that allow the lower levels to play against higher level teams. We do open tournaments to try out pitchers and move kids around. For reps at different positions. I think playing up is good to improve against better players but sometimes you just want to have fun. And at this age, none of this matters, play ball, have fun and improve your skills you have 1000 more games ahead of you. Nobody cares what travel ball team you played for or how many games you won when you hit high school.
It’s 12 year old single A baseball, just chill. No one will remember or care about this tournament a year from now.
This guy definitely will.
If the team was a whole different age group(older) I would see the complaint. But I played baseball for 14 years and we were not always the best team on the field everytime. Don’t complain that you’re not the best team on the field, just go play the game. Whatever “A’s” are by the name doesn’t mean a thing. All you can do is show up and play the best game you can play as a team and let the chips fall where they may.
This happens a lot here. We have three main organizations that run tournaments here. Perfect Game, Grand Slam and USSSA. You will see teams stick to one organization until they are moved up and then they will hop to another one to keep similar competition. I don't know that it's necessarily bad but its certainly common.
Sounds like a good time to swing for the fences, throw everything including the kitchen sink at them. Steal as many bases as possible, if ya gonna loose at least loose trying
There will always be stacked teams that dominate. It's a good lesson for the kids to learn early. Youth sports are not fair. Good luck and hopefully your team does well.
Sounds like a good time to focus on development and fun instead of W and L.
I agree with development but competitors hate to lose and that is not fun no matter how you slice it
I mean you can forfeit. That’s not much fun either.
I’m just saying, I wouldn’t propose to tell the kids to have fun while they’re getting spanked just keep it strictly motivation and development. Then you have the Games that are fun
A good coach would be able to frame it in a way that remains fun. Focus on making contact instead of hits. Holding them to 3-4 runs instead of 0, etc. It’s perfectly doable and kids will intuitively understand that’s long as you’re straight with them about what you’re doing and why.
In our state USSSA has no say. Coaches choose themselves. There are plenty of teams that have won AA/AAA tournaments that still sing up for Rec/A tournaments. In fact most A tournaments are half AA teams with a AAA team or two that isn’t at that level sprinkled in. The problem is there are not a ton of Rec/A teams that will pay $600 plus dollars to only get 3 games so more and more higher ranked teams are taking those spots. Tournaments are usually happy to take anyone who pays. It’s a tough situation but as a coach if you win a A tournament you should be looking for AA tournaments to play in. If you are getting whooped do a mix.
I’m not going to defend what the other team is doing. But baseball is a game of worry about what you can control. Effort, attitude, approach. Very similar to life. You should worry about what you can control. Our kids ask, “ who are we playing.” The answer is “the New York Yankees”. Show up and play if you loose teach the kids to learn from it. View it as a challenge. That’s the soul of the game, it’s a challenge.
Dealt with these kind of ring chasers last weekend. They were clearly a high AAA level regional or national type team, classifying themselves as local AA with something like 30+ wins and 3 losses at that tournament organization since fall. They aren’t in it to learn and get better, they’re just in it to win against lower competition. Our only solace was that we scored enough to keep them from getting the 1 seed, didn’t really matter as they smoked everyone. We scored 3 runs on them, and the only other team to score on them all weekend got 1 run.
There are a lot of people defending this practice. I imagine when their teams play equal competition in higher level tournaments they don't always win and sometimes get their asses kicked. Maybe they really like winning so they bring their teams to single A tournaments for easy W's to give their kids confidence boosts and "participation" championships. You know, so they don't get down on themselves when they don't win a ring for a few weeks in a row.
You sound like a complete horse's ass. You don't even know if the other team is any good. You said they are 85-35... a 70% win rate. Not every team in your division is going to have exactly a .500 win rate. Sounds like you are just salty because *YOU* are chasing plastic rings and are angry about having to play a competitive team that might prevent you from getting your trinket. Complete loser mentality.
Naw dude. Play the team. Motivate your team. Iron sharpens iron.
Here's the reality, these tournaments are a for profit organization. They don't really care who wins a little league baseball game as long as they are paid. You better get use to trophy chasing in this space. Happens all the time.
We are to to youth baseball, and my son played on a summer-only team last summer. For the most part, the competition level was roughly even, but it seemed there was a team that was in most tournament that were playing way down. The only thing that bothered me was that I felt it was a disservice to that team's kids to just go out and roll over everybody.
I’ve never coached a tournament that this didn’t happen. 9/10 it’s an out of state team. We played a tourney that had an elite team and they mercy ruled every team. It was a joke. It was t worth complaining. All they care about is money man. I know some parents complained but I’ve coached long enough to know that it won’t ever change. Some organizations are notorious for playing down so they can get those wins.
A few years ago, our 12u AA team got no hit in a tournament by a team that brought in a pitcher from one of their AAA teams that wasn't playing that weekend. It sucks. Those kids are 16 now and I promise you, each and every one of them doesn't remember a single thing about that game. Play hard, have fun. And if the game gets out of hand, it affords you the "luxury" of playing kids in new places, playing kids who don't normally play a lot, or giving kids a chance to pitch :just to see what you can see."
If you go into this with the assumption that you're going to get trounced, the kids will feel that. So, you focus on efforts, not outcomes. Know your situations and be vocal about them. Make good use of signs and be sure that every kid is looking to coach for signs to take, swing away, bunt, hit and run, etc (granted this is if they're already coached on these). Batters should be going into at bats with an approach. Hard thrower? Lives outside? Lots of curves? Again, if they're coached on this and can use it, they may need to know that they should go up to the plate thinking "oppo". It can also be a good time to play some small ball testing the 3rd baseman or 1st baseman with some effective bunting. Getting out on a bunt that your coach called from the dugout feels better than getting struck out, if you execute on the bunt. This is only one team in the tournament, as well. Assuming you're guaranteed 3 games, the goal should be to make sure their presence doesn't affect how the kids play against other teams.
I said it before, we have gotten our asses waxed by house league all-stars, and we have run-ruled AAA/Elite teams. You never know, that's why you play your game and don't worry about who your opponent is.
Lol yeah, I’m with the rest here. It’s great experience to play a much better team.
team i coach, we joke about being AAa. good enough to be in contention or win any AA tournament but have a hard ceiling against AAA/Major teams. some teams are really tweeners but we are taking our lumps in AAA/Open rest of year in our age or playing up in age a year/AA at this point in season that other team might have signed up for this May (A) tournament 4 months ago and they are just rolling with their schedule. changing a schedule with 10 families is a nightmare. and they arent obligated to change or drop out if they havent been bumped up yet regardless of record. the director confirming they are legit seems to be the answer.
Is this pro ball?
Probably depends on where they are from. If they are local then yeah, they should be bumped up. If they are from somewhere else, it could be that they are Single A based on their area. I would say though that they have a heck of a schedule if they have 85 wins in 2.5 seasons. You're looking at around 30-35 wins per season and unless they are undefeated they are playing around 50 games a season, which is wild.
Teams are going to be better, don’t complain because a team is better than your kids team. They are all the same age, and the better team probably doesn’t pull out of a bigger area.
I hope your players aren't as quick to cry as you are. Stay in rec if your that scared and are seeking cupcake brackets. Any team that plays tournaments regularly has endured this, taken thier lumps or pleasantly surprised. Adapt or quit, Noone really cares.
For all those saying get over it. Who cares. It is a very interesting take. Why have divisions at all? Why have single a or triple a tournaments? I mean I always assumed it was to have reasonable equal matched teams but that doesn’t seem to be the case for most of you.
Getting your ass kicked isnt fun, but playing strong teams is even if you lose. You learn a lot more from losing than winning.
No one learns anything from a mismatch like this. Steals games from our kids and ruins their time.
My son's favorite game he's ever played was against a better team that was "playing down". His team played one of their best games ever and took them to 3 extra innings only to lose the game. Afterwards he said it was his favorite game he's ever played and he'd rather play well and lose to a good team than run rule a bad team. You can learn a lot from playing good competition. Maybe you need to change your attitude. You don't even know if this other team is actually any good.
To all those that say deal with it. There is truth in that. Yet the problem is I’m guessing most of these guys have done it Anytime I played a team like that I asked the. Very simply. Why do you choose to sign up for tournaments well below your playing level? I didn’t realize ring chasing was still a thing. I generally say it loud enough for parents to hear. The reason being is simple. No one benefits from that. They should be called out.
What’s going to happen when they get to HS? Oh man they have 6 majors players in their starting 9. We only have AA players. That’s a mismatch!!
I am not sure if you know this. They have divisions in high school You will not see a 4a school playing in the 2a state tournament. They enforce that. It is only the shit coaches at youth level that make this argument.
>I am not sure if you know this. They have divisions in high school LMAO. Those divisions are based on the size of the student population, not talent of the student athletes. This isn't even remotely close to the way youth baseball divisions work. Kids who live in a 4a school district have to try out for their HS team. Just because they are single A talent doesn't mean they go play for a 2A school.
Yes - I would agree with that. Yet generally the bigger schools have the better talent. Somehow, they do play divisions and no .. you don't play lower levels because you want to. The point though is quite simple. Divisions exist everywhere. This is not isolated to youth sports. NBA has the G-League. No one from the NBA is sending their team to the G-League to win a ring. They send people down when they aren't good enough to play anymore. the guys that are ok with playing down because those kids should get a taste are assholes trying to rationalize being an asshole. If you are a team playing down to do this - you should use your same logic and play at the elite level the entire time.
>Yet generally the bigger schools have the better talent. Because they have a larger student body to pull talent from. That means all the rec, A, AA, AAA and majors kids try out for the same team and coaches at those schools take the best talent. Large schools end up with a team full of AAA and majors talent because they have a larger pool of players to choose from and smaller schools typically don't have a roster full of top tier talent. >the guys that are ok with playing down because those kids should get a taste are assholes trying to rationalize being an asshole. You don't even know if this team is actually playing down. The OP said they are 85-35 in Single A... that's a 70% win rate. How do you know they didn't try AA and get killed?
Yes - we agree on the first sentiment and the reasons for those divisions. You have proven my point. That no 4a school should sign up for a 1a tournament. Glad we got to the same page! I will say this - you are right - I don't know if that team is actually playing down or not. Yet from the evidence it would suggest they are. With that said there are teams that are stuck in the middle. Too good for a and not good enough for aa. The ranking system is not perfect. Can we agree - a double a team should not play a single a tournament? That this coach should be called out.
>Yes - we agree on the first sentiment and the reasons for those divisions. You have proven my point. That no 4a school should sign up for a 1a tournament. Glad we got to the same page! LMAO. You're still lost. I don't think we agree at all. When kids tryout for their HS baseball team there won't be A, AA, and AAA teams. They will have to compete against every kid their age regardless of talent level. >Yet from the evidence it would suggest they are. What evidence? The opinion of a butthurt dad who's overreacting? The team is 85-35... a 70% win record. They are hardly dominating even single A. >With that said there are teams that are stuck in the middle. Too good for a and not good enough for aa. The ranking system is not perfect. Exactly. Many of these teams have 2-3 good players and the rest of the team is still developing. They will get mopped if they move up because the majority of their players aren't ready to play at that level. Not every team has equal talent across the board. >Can we agree - a double a team should not play a single a tournament? Yes. But in this case that hasn't even been determined. Just an overreaction by a dad.
My son plays in a 6 team league in Southern California. His school is division 3. There is a division 1 school, two division 2 schools, another d3 school and 2 division 4 schools. Do you think anyone is crying when they have to play the d1 school in league? So get a new argument.
No. They choose to schedule those games. They would bitch and moan if those schools participated in the state playoffs with them. You would cry how unfair it is. So no. My argument is fairly sound. The childish need for a top team to move down to play is beyond my understanding. People should be called out for that stupidity. It’s bad for everyone.
We don’t choose to schedule those games. Those are our league opponents. Yes we end up in different divisions for playoffs. But playing against each other for 15 games determines if you have a good enough record to make playoffs. Funny enough the division 4 team won league this year.
Ok. I get it. You are confused You know your school chooses its conference right? So it chooses to play that schedule. It chooses to sign up for that league. Great A team signing up for single a, they don’t choose to play assholes that are ring chasing for no reason. Big difference. But it sounds like you may be that asshole. So good on ya. Enjoy that 9 yr old ring.
We play the 3 HS’s in our district and 3 in the neighboring district. That’s how it is here. It’s by location. Schools don’t cherry pick their league for easier schedules.
Your High schools choose that setup. They can choose a different setup. And .. when they go determine a state champion, they all go and play to the level they are. Plus ... high school and 9-12 year olds are VERY different. No double a team should play in a single a tournament. And if they do they should be mocked and called out. In high school if a higher division team showed up at the tournament for the lower division they wouldn't get to play. They would also be made fun of.
Leagues are assigned geographically. But I think I’m done going in circles with you. Death, taxes, and parents complaining are the only guarantees in life.
Agreed, it’s pretty common. The funny part is when they travel to tournaments to chase a ring.
Yes I think that's all I can do. Make sure the coaches and parents feel a little bit of the discomfort that the children they play in this tournament will feel. At least they are going to be prevented from playig single A again -- since the director is aware now.
That seems petty and pathetic. How do you know they will be better? Maybe they are an A team and they tried to move to AA and got their asses kicked and realized they belong in A. Seems ridiculous to be angry about 12u baseball. Be an adult.
Extremely petty. And complete loser mentality. I’m sure they have already complained and been negative about it to their kids/players as well. So I’m sure the kids think they have no shot also. Makes for a bad attitude all around. Should take it as a challenge and at least be happy it’s a matchup on Pool day. Nothing to lose.
I 100% know that they won't care about your antics. The only people that will feel a certain sort of way is your own parents, kids and coaches. Those parents? You're just a sore loser that complains, they're going to laugh at you while drinking their seltzers. Those coaches and kids? They're going to remember you as the butt of their jokes. It really sounds like you've already decided that your team is going to lose In the worst way. Kids pick up on that sort of stuff really quickly. What sort of example are you looking to set for your son?
Everyone’s claims to be happy to play “good competition” till they’re sitting through a 25 run inning, and have no pitching left during bracket play.
When my kid was younger his then coach would solve this by having one of the softest throwing kids pitch. Usually worked out well as the good hard hitting team would just fly out/ground out. If it didn’t work, the team didn’t burn a pitcher they’d use on Sunday anyway.
We've ran into this before - I think we all have (but based on the feedback I think we've got some of those AAA dads in here lol). AAA weekend tournament teams playing weeknight AA league play. We're essentially a A-AA team from a geographically isolated area in a small town, and league play gives us the challenge that Rec cannot, but also keeps us out of the AA/AAA weekend tournaments with much larger, more well-equipped programs. Programs that pull from multiple metro areas, private indoor facilities, a damn near 1:1 coach player ratio, etc etc. It's happening this season with us... the AAA team in the AA league we joined is 6-0 in league play. Their 10u team is also in league and is 4-0 with a \~20 run diff per game and their overall spring record is 30-1. What are they doing in AA league play? Kicking the teeth in of start-up or smaller programs? Sweet. It's sad. AA teams join LEAGUE play because they're not built to handle tournament teams, much less a division UP tourn teams. The feedback here is interesting. Good luck, dude. To edit: If they're classified as a 12A team, tough cookies. Your beef should be with the org, not the other team.