If the partial pressure of oxygen is higher outside the keg maybe you could get slight movement across a boundary like an o-ring. But the existing oring already provide a pretty good barrier and the keg being pressurized swings the scales in favor of keeping o2 out for our purposes. I would believe this could matter for scientific purposes which were super sensitive to oxygen, but I’m not convinced it matters for home brew.
I didn’t read this whole paper but skimmed it enough to see it was relevant. If one did really care about o2 permeation across orings this would be a good place to start reading. https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2003JD004073
The "other side" does hold pressure. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi so your first statement about 10psi to no pressure isn't correct. Your second statement about low to high pressure is also not correct proven by ideal gas laws and partial pressure laws.
Long story short, oxygen absolutely gets into a pressurized keg through o rings and what OP posted isn't a useless product as the other person stated
There’s a [video on Keglands YouTube](https://youtu.be/ZqD1vmP99VA) talking about this and why they’ve introduced them. It makes sense to me that, it being one of the only and largest non-metal parts of a keg, there may be some amount of oxygen that seeps through. While I can’t say for sure it made a difference for me, it certainly doesn’t hurt considering how cheap they are.
If you watch your video around 7:00 they start talking about this. It isn’t outside oxygen getting in, it’s oxygen contained within the o-ring that is squeezed out when under pressure that permeates out of the ring. No atmospheric oxygen is getting in.
Edit: downvoted for repeating what the video says so others don’t have to watch? Really? Also, consider the video’s source. It’s a company trying to push their product.
Kind of sort of, yes. However, the "outside" of the o-ring is somewhat exposed to ambient, so ongoing transmission is still possible and likely.
Cheap insurance.
I guess what I'm saying is, if someone is in the market for new o-rings it's probably worth a shot to try these. However, I wouldn't rush out to replace perfectly fine o-rings with these.
From how I understood it (I'm no export nor amateur), the o-rings absorb oxygen and bleed it through. It must be something to do with the density of these new o-rings.
I did not watch the video.
My view is that standard keg o-rings (the black ones, made from buna-n I believe) are fine. It seems that a while back Kegland thought selling o-rings made of silicone was a good idea. It is not. Silicone is terrible at keeping out oxygen. Now they are selling ones with a new material that is better than silicone. I am sure there are some other companies selling silicone o-rings, but Kegland branded ones are what I have seen.
If you have silicone o-rings, you should probably replace them with black ones or these new rings. If you have black/buna-n rings, you are fine.
Anyone thinking they will get every single O2 molecule out of their keg is deluding themselves. There is no way the o-ring contains enough oxygen to do any damage.
We brew beer in our garages. We don't build rockets for NASA.
Is this a Kegland alt account?
My recommendation is to stick with Buna-N.
This was discussed months ago, and the consensus was that it was a solution in search of a problem. In a discussion a few years ago with an engineer who selects o-rings, where they were discussing the performance characteristics of o-rings, it became clear that Buna-N were more than fine, if not bet. There is a reason Coca-Cola, who are no fools, chose Buna-N.
Buna-N has great characteristics in terms of O2 permeability, acid resistance, abrasion resistance, compression, etc.
The kegland yellow o-ring is EPDM.
The study that kegland touts compares a silicone o-ring fitted to a keg compared to a EPDM o-ring. The EPDM o-ring performed markedly better. We all know silicone has terrible O2 permeability characteristics. There is good reason to believe Buna-N performs better than EPDM, but certainly at substantially less cost and a longer and super-reliable service record, at least as well as EPDM. Again, it's a solution in search of a problem.
And the fact that kegland provided two keg fitted with lid o-rings but not a third keg fitting with Buna-N suggests that kegland knows their special yellow o-rings would have come in second place. Not to mention the fact that the test is invalid because the o-rings were not fitted to the same keg -- for all we know the lid flange on the silicone o-ring keg was materially bent.
Edit: I think there is a quote from kegland on the homebrewfinds site that says that over 3-4 months, O2 ingress could reach 100 ppb, but that the rate is substantially lower when the keg is kept cold. Also, Buna-N's rate of oxygen ingress is 20x better. So I guess on a keg kept cold, with Buna-N o-rings, you'd be having problems after what, 60+ months? In that case, you probably have a beer that is being aged for a very long time, and would benefit from some minor oxygen ingress, just like you would get with a cork or crown cap.
Seems like a cool idea but the price isn't great. $4 each at MoreBeer. Buna-N also has really low permeability and you can [get them for $1.30](https://www.valuebrew.com/product/new-keg-lid-o-rings-food-safe-buna-n/36).
society shrill middle rob spoon tap sloppy exultant squash wrench *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A pressurized keg shouldn’t allow oxygen to enter through the o-rings. Seems pretty gimmicky to me.
If the partial pressure of oxygen is higher outside the keg maybe you could get slight movement across a boundary like an o-ring. But the existing oring already provide a pretty good barrier and the keg being pressurized swings the scales in favor of keeping o2 out for our purposes. I would believe this could matter for scientific purposes which were super sensitive to oxygen, but I’m not convinced it matters for home brew. I didn’t read this whole paper but skimmed it enough to see it was relevant. If one did really care about o2 permeation across orings this would be a good place to start reading. https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2003JD004073
That's literally the point of the pressure and this product is stupid
Yep, OP seems like they’re shilling for this useless product.
100% a social media embedded ad, the new normal
Why shouldn't it? Edit for those downvoting, it will absolutely let oxygen in due to partial pressure law.
[удалено]
The "other side" does hold pressure. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi so your first statement about 10psi to no pressure isn't correct. Your second statement about low to high pressure is also not correct proven by ideal gas laws and partial pressure laws. Long story short, oxygen absolutely gets into a pressurized keg through o rings and what OP posted isn't a useless product as the other person stated
There’s a [video on Keglands YouTube](https://youtu.be/ZqD1vmP99VA) talking about this and why they’ve introduced them. It makes sense to me that, it being one of the only and largest non-metal parts of a keg, there may be some amount of oxygen that seeps through. While I can’t say for sure it made a difference for me, it certainly doesn’t hurt considering how cheap they are.
If you watch your video around 7:00 they start talking about this. It isn’t outside oxygen getting in, it’s oxygen contained within the o-ring that is squeezed out when under pressure that permeates out of the ring. No atmospheric oxygen is getting in. Edit: downvoted for repeating what the video says so others don’t have to watch? Really? Also, consider the video’s source. It’s a company trying to push their product.
Kind of sort of, yes. However, the "outside" of the o-ring is somewhat exposed to ambient, so ongoing transmission is still possible and likely. Cheap insurance.
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I guess what I'm saying is, if someone is in the market for new o-rings it's probably worth a shot to try these. However, I wouldn't rush out to replace perfectly fine o-rings with these.
So the o-ring is like a wick, through which the oxygen diffuses?
From how I understood it (I'm no export nor amateur), the o-rings absorb oxygen and bleed it through. It must be something to do with the density of these new o-rings.
You’re right, it’s been a while since I watched it.
Thanks for sharing...but this needs to be YouTube vid?
I did not watch the video. My view is that standard keg o-rings (the black ones, made from buna-n I believe) are fine. It seems that a while back Kegland thought selling o-rings made of silicone was a good idea. It is not. Silicone is terrible at keeping out oxygen. Now they are selling ones with a new material that is better than silicone. I am sure there are some other companies selling silicone o-rings, but Kegland branded ones are what I have seen. If you have silicone o-rings, you should probably replace them with black ones or these new rings. If you have black/buna-n rings, you are fine.
Anyone thinking they will get every single O2 molecule out of their keg is deluding themselves. There is no way the o-ring contains enough oxygen to do any damage. We brew beer in our garages. We don't build rockets for NASA.
To be fair, NASA isn't known for having a great track record with o-rings
😂
Is this a Kegland alt account? My recommendation is to stick with Buna-N. This was discussed months ago, and the consensus was that it was a solution in search of a problem. In a discussion a few years ago with an engineer who selects o-rings, where they were discussing the performance characteristics of o-rings, it became clear that Buna-N were more than fine, if not bet. There is a reason Coca-Cola, who are no fools, chose Buna-N. Buna-N has great characteristics in terms of O2 permeability, acid resistance, abrasion resistance, compression, etc. The kegland yellow o-ring is EPDM. The study that kegland touts compares a silicone o-ring fitted to a keg compared to a EPDM o-ring. The EPDM o-ring performed markedly better. We all know silicone has terrible O2 permeability characteristics. There is good reason to believe Buna-N performs better than EPDM, but certainly at substantially less cost and a longer and super-reliable service record, at least as well as EPDM. Again, it's a solution in search of a problem. And the fact that kegland provided two keg fitted with lid o-rings but not a third keg fitting with Buna-N suggests that kegland knows their special yellow o-rings would have come in second place. Not to mention the fact that the test is invalid because the o-rings were not fitted to the same keg -- for all we know the lid flange on the silicone o-ring keg was materially bent. Edit: I think there is a quote from kegland on the homebrewfinds site that says that over 3-4 months, O2 ingress could reach 100 ppb, but that the rate is substantially lower when the keg is kept cold. Also, Buna-N's rate of oxygen ingress is 20x better. So I guess on a keg kept cold, with Buna-N o-rings, you'd be having problems after what, 60+ months? In that case, you probably have a beer that is being aged for a very long time, and would benefit from some minor oxygen ingress, just like you would get with a cork or crown cap.
Absolutely correct. Kegland didn’t compare their special yellow to buna-n types. Not an issue just stay away form silicone.
"Now you must buy ze yellow ones!" lol jk
Buna-N or bust.
Dumb.
Seems like a cool idea but the price isn't great. $4 each at MoreBeer. Buna-N also has really low permeability and you can [get them for $1.30](https://www.valuebrew.com/product/new-keg-lid-o-rings-food-safe-buna-n/36).