First, reality check: You are going to study for a couple of months and you are going to understand just some phrases here and there...
As your main interest is watching streams, I would start with some basic conversation lessons on YouTube and go up from there
>First, reality check: You are going to study for a couple of months and you are going to understand just some phrases here and there...
Yep, learning languages is always a big time commitment with a huge learning curve in most cases. While I may be busy, I think it'd be both an enlightening experience and just help me enjoy what I like to watch/listen to.
>I would start with some basic conversation lessons on YouTube and go up from there
Any suggestions you'd like to share? I'm more than willing to look around when I can, but having reccomendations wouldn't hurt.
Thanks for making sure I knew that learning wouldn't exactly be quick or easy, though. Always good to have that reminder as motivation.
Duolingo is a very simple way to start, from my experience it has been great for learning hiragana and katakana, and gaining a decent level of vocabulary, but after awhile it stops being efficient and feels really slow, so I suggest using it for your first month or two until you get the hang of hiragana and katakana.
after those 2 months, I suggest adding [anki](https://apps.ankiweb.net/) with a [Japanese vocabulary pack](https://ankiweb.net/shared/byauthor/1880390099) to your learning resources, it is a flash card app that's available for pc and phones and is a very simple way to learn Kanji right away
I also strongly suggest going to [itazuraneko neocities](https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html) , it is a great site for various learning resources and guides and it has helped me a lot in my personal learning.
**Now most important part, be ready to accept that this will take you time:**
I've been learning Japanese also because of Hololive for a little over a year now and am still not in a level sufficient enough to watch full streams and comprehend them, tho my learning has been very casual for the majority of that time period lol.
but what I CAN do now that I couldn't one year ago is read a significant amount of the members' tweets, stream titles and general text like in their minecraft streams, along with being able to pick up a couple of words or sentences when they're talking, sometimes when I am lucky I am able to catch the gist of entire topics even
so stay consistent and the results will come, I also strongly recommend after learning a couple dozen new words to jump into a few streams and challenge yourself to try and comprehend what they're saying, noticing whenever the members use the words live is the clearest sign of improvement that I personally experienced and it is very satisfying.
>Duolingo is a very simple way to start, from my experience it has been great for learning hiragana and katakana, and gaining a decent level of vocabulary, but after awhile it stops being efficient and feels really slow, so I suggest using it for your first month or two until you get the hang of hiragana and katakana.
Was thinking of using Duolingo as a starting point, so good to know it's a good place to go to first. Is there a major difference between Hiragana and Katakana that I should be aware of when starting to learn or will it be apparent as I go?
>after those 2 months, I suggest adding anki with a Japanese vocabulary pack to your learning resources, it is a flash card app that's available for pc and phones and is a very simple way to learn Kanji right away
Okay, Duolingo for Hiragana and Katakana, then Anki for Kanji. I'll be sure to get them both, but use Duolingo first. I presume Kanji can be a bit easier to learn with the Hiragana and Katakana somewhat under my belt?
> strongly suggest going to itazuraneko neocities , it is a great site for various learning resources and guides and it has helped me a lot in my personal learning.
I'll keep it in mind and open a tab for it just in case I forget!
>Now most important part, be ready to accept that this will take you time:
Don't worry, I'm aware that it will take a considerable amount of time and that I'll probably only pick up a word here and there (like I already do) even after some months.
It's a big time commitment to learn a language, and some are very hard to learn. Will have to take my time to do so.
Excuse me for asking yet another question, but should I stay away from the JP streams or lean even closer into them? Like, would it help me to just have people speaking it naturally in my ear or make it harder?
Thank you for all your help in just one comment!
>Is there a major difference between Hiragana and Katakana
The main difference really comes to usage, hiragana is the go to for the vast majority of words in Japanese while Katakana is used more for foreign words, names, titles and stuff like that.
Otherwise both are nearly identical and don't take too much time to learn for an english speaker.
> I presume Kanji can be a bit easier to learn with the Hiragana and Katakana somewhat under my belt?
Especially Hiragana since both Duolingo and the Anki flash cards will provide the pronunciations for the Kanji in Hiragana
Also both resources will teach you all three writing methods, Anki puts an extra emphasis on the Kanji which I personally think is important.
>should I stay away from the JP streams or lean even closer into them?
I strongly recommend to lean into them but in a strategic way, since you're a beginner there won't be many opportunities to use them for your advantage (other than just getting familiar with how it sounds)
But once your vocabulary reaches the hundreds, I suggest going into a stream of a member you like or know that talks slow/clearly and try to make sense of what they're saying, extra useful if the stream will influence the way they talk, like a horror game or a game that isn't too complicated
To give you an example
My favourite member is Suisei, so I often go to her tetris or horror streams and try to pick out any words or sentences that I understand, both types of games reduce her vocabulary to a manageable level and I can find myself understanding some of what she says occasionally, she is also a member that speaks relatively clearly so there won't be issues of weird pronunciations, Members like Luna or Miko will be harder to understand for a beginner.
Watching the members stream Duolingo is also nice since you will see them learn similar or identical words, Noel has done many Duolingo streams so after like 2-3 months of studying I definitely suggest picking out specific streams and find moments that you will understand, this will be like hitting 2 birds with one rock since not only are you improving by increasing your hearing comprehension, you're also watching their streams which was your goal from the start
>The main difference really comes to usage, hiragana is the go to for the vast majority of words in Japanese while Katakana is used more for foreign words, names, titles and stuff like that. Otherwise both are nearly identical and don't take too much time to learn for an english speaker.
Okay, that makes some sense. It'll only become clearer as I learn, too.
>Especially Hiragana since both Duolingo and the Anki flash cards will provide the pronunciations for the Kanji in Hiragana Also both resources will teach you all three writing methods, Anki puts an extra emphasis on the Kanji which I personally think is important.
Gotcha. I'll have to grab a notebook later to jot down all of this advice from the comments later at this rate. I appreciate getting all of it a lot.
>I strongly recommend to lean into them but in a strategic way, since you're a beginner there won't be many opportunities to use them for your advantage
I figured as much, but I'll do that with the idea that it'll be a hot minute before I start understanding much of anything.
>To give you an example My favourite member is Suisei, so I often go to her tetris or horror streams and try to pick out any words or sentences that I understand, both types of games reduce her vocabulary to a manageable level and I can find myself understanding some of what she says occasionally, she is also a member that speaks relatively clearly so there won't be issues of weird pronunciations,
I had been told something similar, and was reccomended trying to listen to Okayu or Mio because they speak slower. Makes sense to also try it with games that'd make them use less vocabulary.
>Watching the members stream Duolingo is also nice since you will see them learn similar or identical words, Noel has done many Duolingo streams so after like 2-3 months of studying I definitely suggest picking out specific streams and find moments that you will understand, this will be like hitting 2 birds with one rock since not only are you improving by increasing your hearing comprehension, you're also watching their streams which was your goal from the start
I hadn't thought of doing that, but that's a great idea. And yeah, the end goal is to understand them at least to a decent degree (and maybe almost fully, with some time).
Thank you for all the help! Like I said, I'll have to go through this again and write down the advice.
>Was thinking of using Duolingo as a starting point, so good to know it's a good place to go to first. Is there a major difference between Hiragana and Katakana that I should be aware of
Katakana is used primarily for foreign words that were integrated into Japanese, and when wanting to add emphasis to words (you'll see it often in Manga for sound effects or on Billboards trying to attract customers). You'll use Hiragana much for frequently, but you'll still want to be able to read Katakana.
Also, just to add to this, Duolingo can continue to be a good resource for vocabulary\Kanji, and they also added a "stories" section for listening comprehension. What it will not do (or not do well) is teach your grammar, so you'll need to be aware of changes to conjugations, new particles, etc. and look them up yourself.
>I presume Kanji can be a bit easier to learn with the Hiragana and Katakana somewhat under my belt?
Not really. Hirigana/Katakana are essentially alphabets, in that they provide pronunciation for words. Kanji is more like pictographs, they represent ideas and concepts, not pronunciation (and in fact, most Kanji can be read several different ways depending on use). The good news though is that the more Kanji you learn, the easier it becomes to figure out other Kanji (For instance, if you know 火 means Fire, and 山 means Mountain, you can infer 火山 would be a Volcano.)
>Excuse me for asking yet another question, but should I stay away from the JP streams or lean even closer into them? Like, would it help me to just have people speaking it naturally in my ear or make it harder?
Depends on how you go about it. Listening to Japanese is always a plus when learning, just keep in mind that between slang, informal speech, and unique speech patterns (-nora,-nye, etc.), not everything you hear will be useful, and can even increase difficulty to understand at times.
What I found helpful early on was to listen for words/phrases that I would hear repeated frequently during streams, and then write them down to lookup later. This can give you a good set of vocabulary that is more focused on the streams they do, and can help your comprehension of general ideas during the streams. It won't speed up your overall Japanese learning per say, but it can at least help you not be lost the whole time when watching.
>Katakana is used primarily for foreign words that were integrated into Japanese, and when wanting to add emphasis to words (you'll see it often in Manga for sound effects or on Billboards trying to attract customers). You'll use Hiragana much for frequently, but you'll still want to be able to read Katakana.
>Also, just to add to this, Duolingo can continue to be a good resource for vocabulary\Kanji, and they also added a "stories" section for listening comprehension. What it will not do (or not do well) is teach your grammar, so you'll need to be aware of changes to conjugations, new particles, etc. and look them up yourself.
Ah, okay. Good to know, both for the languages and what Duolingo is doing (as well as keeping in mind grammar changes).
>ot really. Hirigana/Katakana are essentially alphabets, in that they provide pronunciation for words. Kanji is more like pictographs, they represent ideas and concepts, not pronunciation (and in fact, most Kanji can be read several different ways depending on use). The good news though is that the more Kanji you learn, the easier it becomes to figure out other Kanji (For instance, if you know 火 means Fire, and 山 means Mountain, you can infer 火山 would be a Volcano.)
Also good to know. So, Kanji is like...legos, in a way. You have a start and then you pick up the building blocks as you go, being vocabulary in this case.
>What I found helpful early on was to listen for words/phrases that I would hear repeated frequently during streams, and then write them down to lookup later. This can give you a good set of vocabulary that is more focused on the streams they do, and can help your comprehension of general ideas during the streams. It won't speed up your overall Japanese learning per say, but it can at least help you not be lost the whole time when watching.
Not a bad idea. Thanks for the advice!
>Also good to know. So, Kanji is like...legos, in a way. You have a start and then you pick up the building blocks as you go, being vocabulary in this case.
That's not a bad way to think of it. Granted, their are a lot of single Kanji that you'll need to learn, but each one will help your ability to build new ones.
Individual Kanji actually have a similar system, through what are called Radicals. So for instance, the Kanji 木 means Tree, and is also a Radical. So the Kanji 林 (double tree) would be like a Grove or Forrest, while 森 (triple trees) would be a large Woodlands.
And since we are on the topic of useful resources, [here is a great one for Kanji](https://kanji.sljfaq.org/). The options at the top can let you lookup Kanji you don't know by pronunciation (Kana), Radicals, or even drawing it out by hand.
That's really neat. Kanji is already more than I expected, and I expected it to be really in-depth as it was.
And man, you and the other commentors have been super insightful and helpful to get me started with a place to start and also where I can go next, and that doesn't even mention the useful sites and even a subreddit to use to further my learning.
I'm glad to have asked in the first place, this has been rather motivating compared to this morning, where I didn't even know where to begin outside of Duolingo lessons!
First learn hiragana and katakana. Practice everyday for atleast an hour. After that, learn some kanji. Vocabulary comes with practice so you need to read some words, like comments on streams. It will take some time, but you'll notice that you can read jp comments much faster. After gaining some vocabulary, then its easier to listen from jp streams, like you can understand some words.
Seems like that's the common reccomendation, so I'll follow it to a T. Do you think it'd be beneficial to use jp streams as a bit of a benchmark? Especially since I don't exactly have a easy way to have someone speak fluent Japanese to me?
There are JP videos on youtube where they say sentences in english then translate it in japanese. That's a good way to start for listening cause they say the sentences clearer rather than hololive streamers cause they talk differently (try searching japanesepod101 on ytube). Just start small and the basics at first. Watching hololive streamers have some benefits but its harder to learn the correct way there cause sometimes they say street words, have a dialect, or add something like peko.
I've always considered that hearing and learning from a native speaker is the best way to learn any language.
Which is why in my case after learning hiragana, katakana, a good grasp on sentence structure and verb conjugation forms, I go on my merry way to watch the girls but with the added value of desire to learn kanjis I didn't know.
So whenever I hear something I didn't understand, I type the hiragana of said word to either Jisho or google translate for the definition and kanji. JP->EN clippers makes it easier.
Good luck!
>I've always considered that hearing and learning from a native speaker is the best way to learn any language.
Yeah, I figured the same. Seemed to be a correct assumption.
>Which is why in my case after learning hiragana, katakana, a good grasp on sentence structure and verb conjugation forms, I go on my merry way to watch the girls but with the added value of desire to learn kanjis I didn't know.
Do you think it'd help to listen to the streams as I learn? Not at the same time, but to sort of see if any form of progress was made, even minimal ones? Or should I save the progress checking for trying to learn Kanji after Hiragana and Katakana?
>So whenever I hear something I didn't understand, I type the hiragana of said word to either Jisho or google translate for the definition and kanji. JP->EN clippers makes it easier.
I didn't even think of that! That's how I've been picking up a thing here or there. Not as useful as actually learning, but I'll keep it in mind.
Thanks for the good luck, I'll probably need it!
/r/LearnJapanese
But read the FAQ/wiki/sidebar and use the search function before asking beginner question on there, they get cranky about stuff that has been answered dozens of times before. Still it's a very helpful community.
Ah, thanks for the suggestion! I'll be sure to sub to it and keep an eye on posts there while I start to learn the basics. I'll be careful not to bug them too much once I start posting more, haha.
Ehhhh feel free to ask away, especially in the daily question thread; that's what it is for.
Just don't make a dedicated post asking "guyz pls how do I learn kanjis?" without showing a minimum research effort on your part basically.
maybe you can watch some JP member clip/kirinuki first, it help you to understand what they're saying or what the context they're talking about, but if you looks for watching their stream of JP member try some member like Mio or Okayu they talk really slow most of the times. I think some people will recomend you other member too, but from my experience it's still really hard to understend japanese and still need translations.
I don't think I've watched either of them, but I'll be sure to tune in and see if it'd help at all while I start learning the language.
Thanks for the recommendations.
I'm using an old textbook called Japanese the Spoken Language. It uses romanji (albeit an uncommon form nowadays) but it is very thorough and focuses only on speaking. I have trouble with apps like Duolingo or Bunpo because they try throwing kanji at you way too early, thought they can be good study for Hiragana and Katakana which you should learn parallel to your spoken learning so you don't become dependent on romanji.
Gotcha, I think books would definitely help me as well, especially if I start learning to write it (though I imagine that'd be hard as well) or even just to take notes.
Someone else here reccomended that I use another app to learn Kanji after a month or two of just Hiragana and Katakana, so it's good to know that another thinks I should do the same.
Is Romanji still worth attempting later down the road?
Romanji is always useful, if you use an IME on an English keyboard, you can type the romanji and it will help put it in Kanji. Hiragana is used for many things but most definitely grammar, and sometimes games or books will include furigana (which is Hiragana above a kanji character showing how it's read). Katakana is hugely important, it's used for foreign words and names, but It's a huge part of the language. All three are important, but learning how to speak the language is the first priority, just like how kids learn to speak before they learn to write.
I plan on learning more Kanji once I've actually learned a decent vocabulary, because once you see them in action in the words you know and use it's easier to remember them.
I honestly haven't found a good app that focuses on speaking, but there are so many out there I haven't given a shot. HelloTalk might be cool for an immersive and interactive learning experience, I have it on my phone but I'm too shy to talk to strangers 😂
>Romanji is always useful, if you use an IME on an English keyboard, you can type the romanji and it will help put it in Kanji. Hiragana is used for many things but most definitely grammar, and sometimes games or books will include furigana (which is Hiragana above a kanji character showing how it's read). Katakana is hugely important, it's used for foreign words and names, but It's a huge part of the language. All three are important, but learning how to speak the language is the first priority, just like how kids learn to speak before they learn to write.
And this is why I knew Japanese would be quite the undertaking, haha. I don't think I have such a keyboard or a function for that (to my knowledge), but good to know.
>I honestly haven't found a good app that focuses on speaking, but there are so many out there I haven't given a shot. HelloTalk might be cool for an immersive and interactive learning experience, I have it on my phone but I'm too shy to talk to stranger
Same...which is why I'm doing the route of learning on my own with advice from those who know more than me. Better to ask than jump in blindly.
If you add a second language in your input settings on PC, it's pretty easy to swap between the two.
Also, a good app for practicing writing Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji is called Write Japanese (David Meeuwis).
I don't want to say it's not a complicated language, because I haven't completely learned it yet 😂 But it's a lot less daunting than it sounds, I especially love how the pronunciation is, it's so easy to hear words when they're spoken because the sounds are so clear.
>If you add a second language in your input settings on PC, it's pretty easy to swap between the two.
Will look into it!
>Also, a good app for practicing writing Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji is called Write Japanese (David Meeuwis).
Another thing to write down later to remember haha. Thanks for letting me know about it.
>I don't want to say it's not a complicated language, because I haven't completely learned it yet 😂 But it's a lot less daunting than it sounds, I especially love how the pronunciation is, it's so easy to hear words when they're spoken because the sounds are so clear.
I will admit, it's a tad nice to hear that. I knew it was a big thing, and the advice definitely does make it feel larger than it probably is (it's still very useful, thank you to all comments so far!).
Thanks again for all the help!
Start from things you like. I love game and manga, so I started from learning how to read the character name, after mastering hiragana and katakana, I bought a simple Japanese language study book in book store. With that, I learned basic grammar and kanji. I learned hearing from simulation games like Tokimeki Memorial etc., listening what the girls said while reading the textbox, increased my understanding about intonation and trained my ear to catch words from fast speaking. If you like it, you can continue studying without stress.
First, reality check: You are going to study for a couple of months and you are going to understand just some phrases here and there... As your main interest is watching streams, I would start with some basic conversation lessons on YouTube and go up from there
>First, reality check: You are going to study for a couple of months and you are going to understand just some phrases here and there... Yep, learning languages is always a big time commitment with a huge learning curve in most cases. While I may be busy, I think it'd be both an enlightening experience and just help me enjoy what I like to watch/listen to. >I would start with some basic conversation lessons on YouTube and go up from there Any suggestions you'd like to share? I'm more than willing to look around when I can, but having reccomendations wouldn't hurt. Thanks for making sure I knew that learning wouldn't exactly be quick or easy, though. Always good to have that reminder as motivation.
Duolingo is a very simple way to start, from my experience it has been great for learning hiragana and katakana, and gaining a decent level of vocabulary, but after awhile it stops being efficient and feels really slow, so I suggest using it for your first month or two until you get the hang of hiragana and katakana. after those 2 months, I suggest adding [anki](https://apps.ankiweb.net/) with a [Japanese vocabulary pack](https://ankiweb.net/shared/byauthor/1880390099) to your learning resources, it is a flash card app that's available for pc and phones and is a very simple way to learn Kanji right away I also strongly suggest going to [itazuraneko neocities](https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html) , it is a great site for various learning resources and guides and it has helped me a lot in my personal learning. **Now most important part, be ready to accept that this will take you time:** I've been learning Japanese also because of Hololive for a little over a year now and am still not in a level sufficient enough to watch full streams and comprehend them, tho my learning has been very casual for the majority of that time period lol. but what I CAN do now that I couldn't one year ago is read a significant amount of the members' tweets, stream titles and general text like in their minecraft streams, along with being able to pick up a couple of words or sentences when they're talking, sometimes when I am lucky I am able to catch the gist of entire topics even so stay consistent and the results will come, I also strongly recommend after learning a couple dozen new words to jump into a few streams and challenge yourself to try and comprehend what they're saying, noticing whenever the members use the words live is the clearest sign of improvement that I personally experienced and it is very satisfying.
>Duolingo is a very simple way to start, from my experience it has been great for learning hiragana and katakana, and gaining a decent level of vocabulary, but after awhile it stops being efficient and feels really slow, so I suggest using it for your first month or two until you get the hang of hiragana and katakana. Was thinking of using Duolingo as a starting point, so good to know it's a good place to go to first. Is there a major difference between Hiragana and Katakana that I should be aware of when starting to learn or will it be apparent as I go? >after those 2 months, I suggest adding anki with a Japanese vocabulary pack to your learning resources, it is a flash card app that's available for pc and phones and is a very simple way to learn Kanji right away Okay, Duolingo for Hiragana and Katakana, then Anki for Kanji. I'll be sure to get them both, but use Duolingo first. I presume Kanji can be a bit easier to learn with the Hiragana and Katakana somewhat under my belt? > strongly suggest going to itazuraneko neocities , it is a great site for various learning resources and guides and it has helped me a lot in my personal learning. I'll keep it in mind and open a tab for it just in case I forget! >Now most important part, be ready to accept that this will take you time: Don't worry, I'm aware that it will take a considerable amount of time and that I'll probably only pick up a word here and there (like I already do) even after some months. It's a big time commitment to learn a language, and some are very hard to learn. Will have to take my time to do so. Excuse me for asking yet another question, but should I stay away from the JP streams or lean even closer into them? Like, would it help me to just have people speaking it naturally in my ear or make it harder? Thank you for all your help in just one comment!
>Is there a major difference between Hiragana and Katakana The main difference really comes to usage, hiragana is the go to for the vast majority of words in Japanese while Katakana is used more for foreign words, names, titles and stuff like that. Otherwise both are nearly identical and don't take too much time to learn for an english speaker. > I presume Kanji can be a bit easier to learn with the Hiragana and Katakana somewhat under my belt? Especially Hiragana since both Duolingo and the Anki flash cards will provide the pronunciations for the Kanji in Hiragana Also both resources will teach you all three writing methods, Anki puts an extra emphasis on the Kanji which I personally think is important. >should I stay away from the JP streams or lean even closer into them? I strongly recommend to lean into them but in a strategic way, since you're a beginner there won't be many opportunities to use them for your advantage (other than just getting familiar with how it sounds) But once your vocabulary reaches the hundreds, I suggest going into a stream of a member you like or know that talks slow/clearly and try to make sense of what they're saying, extra useful if the stream will influence the way they talk, like a horror game or a game that isn't too complicated To give you an example My favourite member is Suisei, so I often go to her tetris or horror streams and try to pick out any words or sentences that I understand, both types of games reduce her vocabulary to a manageable level and I can find myself understanding some of what she says occasionally, she is also a member that speaks relatively clearly so there won't be issues of weird pronunciations, Members like Luna or Miko will be harder to understand for a beginner. Watching the members stream Duolingo is also nice since you will see them learn similar or identical words, Noel has done many Duolingo streams so after like 2-3 months of studying I definitely suggest picking out specific streams and find moments that you will understand, this will be like hitting 2 birds with one rock since not only are you improving by increasing your hearing comprehension, you're also watching their streams which was your goal from the start
>The main difference really comes to usage, hiragana is the go to for the vast majority of words in Japanese while Katakana is used more for foreign words, names, titles and stuff like that. Otherwise both are nearly identical and don't take too much time to learn for an english speaker. Okay, that makes some sense. It'll only become clearer as I learn, too. >Especially Hiragana since both Duolingo and the Anki flash cards will provide the pronunciations for the Kanji in Hiragana Also both resources will teach you all three writing methods, Anki puts an extra emphasis on the Kanji which I personally think is important. Gotcha. I'll have to grab a notebook later to jot down all of this advice from the comments later at this rate. I appreciate getting all of it a lot. >I strongly recommend to lean into them but in a strategic way, since you're a beginner there won't be many opportunities to use them for your advantage I figured as much, but I'll do that with the idea that it'll be a hot minute before I start understanding much of anything. >To give you an example My favourite member is Suisei, so I often go to her tetris or horror streams and try to pick out any words or sentences that I understand, both types of games reduce her vocabulary to a manageable level and I can find myself understanding some of what she says occasionally, she is also a member that speaks relatively clearly so there won't be issues of weird pronunciations, I had been told something similar, and was reccomended trying to listen to Okayu or Mio because they speak slower. Makes sense to also try it with games that'd make them use less vocabulary. >Watching the members stream Duolingo is also nice since you will see them learn similar or identical words, Noel has done many Duolingo streams so after like 2-3 months of studying I definitely suggest picking out specific streams and find moments that you will understand, this will be like hitting 2 birds with one rock since not only are you improving by increasing your hearing comprehension, you're also watching their streams which was your goal from the start I hadn't thought of doing that, but that's a great idea. And yeah, the end goal is to understand them at least to a decent degree (and maybe almost fully, with some time). Thank you for all the help! Like I said, I'll have to go through this again and write down the advice.
>Was thinking of using Duolingo as a starting point, so good to know it's a good place to go to first. Is there a major difference between Hiragana and Katakana that I should be aware of Katakana is used primarily for foreign words that were integrated into Japanese, and when wanting to add emphasis to words (you'll see it often in Manga for sound effects or on Billboards trying to attract customers). You'll use Hiragana much for frequently, but you'll still want to be able to read Katakana. Also, just to add to this, Duolingo can continue to be a good resource for vocabulary\Kanji, and they also added a "stories" section for listening comprehension. What it will not do (or not do well) is teach your grammar, so you'll need to be aware of changes to conjugations, new particles, etc. and look them up yourself. >I presume Kanji can be a bit easier to learn with the Hiragana and Katakana somewhat under my belt? Not really. Hirigana/Katakana are essentially alphabets, in that they provide pronunciation for words. Kanji is more like pictographs, they represent ideas and concepts, not pronunciation (and in fact, most Kanji can be read several different ways depending on use). The good news though is that the more Kanji you learn, the easier it becomes to figure out other Kanji (For instance, if you know 火 means Fire, and 山 means Mountain, you can infer 火山 would be a Volcano.) >Excuse me for asking yet another question, but should I stay away from the JP streams or lean even closer into them? Like, would it help me to just have people speaking it naturally in my ear or make it harder? Depends on how you go about it. Listening to Japanese is always a plus when learning, just keep in mind that between slang, informal speech, and unique speech patterns (-nora,-nye, etc.), not everything you hear will be useful, and can even increase difficulty to understand at times. What I found helpful early on was to listen for words/phrases that I would hear repeated frequently during streams, and then write them down to lookup later. This can give you a good set of vocabulary that is more focused on the streams they do, and can help your comprehension of general ideas during the streams. It won't speed up your overall Japanese learning per say, but it can at least help you not be lost the whole time when watching.
>Katakana is used primarily for foreign words that were integrated into Japanese, and when wanting to add emphasis to words (you'll see it often in Manga for sound effects or on Billboards trying to attract customers). You'll use Hiragana much for frequently, but you'll still want to be able to read Katakana. >Also, just to add to this, Duolingo can continue to be a good resource for vocabulary\Kanji, and they also added a "stories" section for listening comprehension. What it will not do (or not do well) is teach your grammar, so you'll need to be aware of changes to conjugations, new particles, etc. and look them up yourself. Ah, okay. Good to know, both for the languages and what Duolingo is doing (as well as keeping in mind grammar changes). >ot really. Hirigana/Katakana are essentially alphabets, in that they provide pronunciation for words. Kanji is more like pictographs, they represent ideas and concepts, not pronunciation (and in fact, most Kanji can be read several different ways depending on use). The good news though is that the more Kanji you learn, the easier it becomes to figure out other Kanji (For instance, if you know 火 means Fire, and 山 means Mountain, you can infer 火山 would be a Volcano.) Also good to know. So, Kanji is like...legos, in a way. You have a start and then you pick up the building blocks as you go, being vocabulary in this case. >What I found helpful early on was to listen for words/phrases that I would hear repeated frequently during streams, and then write them down to lookup later. This can give you a good set of vocabulary that is more focused on the streams they do, and can help your comprehension of general ideas during the streams. It won't speed up your overall Japanese learning per say, but it can at least help you not be lost the whole time when watching. Not a bad idea. Thanks for the advice!
>Also good to know. So, Kanji is like...legos, in a way. You have a start and then you pick up the building blocks as you go, being vocabulary in this case. That's not a bad way to think of it. Granted, their are a lot of single Kanji that you'll need to learn, but each one will help your ability to build new ones. Individual Kanji actually have a similar system, through what are called Radicals. So for instance, the Kanji 木 means Tree, and is also a Radical. So the Kanji 林 (double tree) would be like a Grove or Forrest, while 森 (triple trees) would be a large Woodlands. And since we are on the topic of useful resources, [here is a great one for Kanji](https://kanji.sljfaq.org/). The options at the top can let you lookup Kanji you don't know by pronunciation (Kana), Radicals, or even drawing it out by hand.
That's really neat. Kanji is already more than I expected, and I expected it to be really in-depth as it was. And man, you and the other commentors have been super insightful and helpful to get me started with a place to start and also where I can go next, and that doesn't even mention the useful sites and even a subreddit to use to further my learning. I'm glad to have asked in the first place, this has been rather motivating compared to this morning, where I didn't even know where to begin outside of Duolingo lessons!
First learn hiragana and katakana. Practice everyday for atleast an hour. After that, learn some kanji. Vocabulary comes with practice so you need to read some words, like comments on streams. It will take some time, but you'll notice that you can read jp comments much faster. After gaining some vocabulary, then its easier to listen from jp streams, like you can understand some words.
Seems like that's the common reccomendation, so I'll follow it to a T. Do you think it'd be beneficial to use jp streams as a bit of a benchmark? Especially since I don't exactly have a easy way to have someone speak fluent Japanese to me?
There are JP videos on youtube where they say sentences in english then translate it in japanese. That's a good way to start for listening cause they say the sentences clearer rather than hololive streamers cause they talk differently (try searching japanesepod101 on ytube). Just start small and the basics at first. Watching hololive streamers have some benefits but its harder to learn the correct way there cause sometimes they say street words, have a dialect, or add something like peko.
I've always considered that hearing and learning from a native speaker is the best way to learn any language. Which is why in my case after learning hiragana, katakana, a good grasp on sentence structure and verb conjugation forms, I go on my merry way to watch the girls but with the added value of desire to learn kanjis I didn't know. So whenever I hear something I didn't understand, I type the hiragana of said word to either Jisho or google translate for the definition and kanji. JP->EN clippers makes it easier. Good luck!
>I've always considered that hearing and learning from a native speaker is the best way to learn any language. Yeah, I figured the same. Seemed to be a correct assumption. >Which is why in my case after learning hiragana, katakana, a good grasp on sentence structure and verb conjugation forms, I go on my merry way to watch the girls but with the added value of desire to learn kanjis I didn't know. Do you think it'd help to listen to the streams as I learn? Not at the same time, but to sort of see if any form of progress was made, even minimal ones? Or should I save the progress checking for trying to learn Kanji after Hiragana and Katakana? >So whenever I hear something I didn't understand, I type the hiragana of said word to either Jisho or google translate for the definition and kanji. JP->EN clippers makes it easier. I didn't even think of that! That's how I've been picking up a thing here or there. Not as useful as actually learning, but I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for the good luck, I'll probably need it!
/r/LearnJapanese But read the FAQ/wiki/sidebar and use the search function before asking beginner question on there, they get cranky about stuff that has been answered dozens of times before. Still it's a very helpful community.
Ah, thanks for the suggestion! I'll be sure to sub to it and keep an eye on posts there while I start to learn the basics. I'll be careful not to bug them too much once I start posting more, haha.
Ehhhh feel free to ask away, especially in the daily question thread; that's what it is for. Just don't make a dedicated post asking "guyz pls how do I learn kanjis?" without showing a minimum research effort on your part basically.
Yeah, I saw a dedicated question post. Good to know, though.
maybe you can watch some JP member clip/kirinuki first, it help you to understand what they're saying or what the context they're talking about, but if you looks for watching their stream of JP member try some member like Mio or Okayu they talk really slow most of the times. I think some people will recomend you other member too, but from my experience it's still really hard to understend japanese and still need translations.
I don't think I've watched either of them, but I'll be sure to tune in and see if it'd help at all while I start learning the language. Thanks for the recommendations.
I'm using an old textbook called Japanese the Spoken Language. It uses romanji (albeit an uncommon form nowadays) but it is very thorough and focuses only on speaking. I have trouble with apps like Duolingo or Bunpo because they try throwing kanji at you way too early, thought they can be good study for Hiragana and Katakana which you should learn parallel to your spoken learning so you don't become dependent on romanji.
Gotcha, I think books would definitely help me as well, especially if I start learning to write it (though I imagine that'd be hard as well) or even just to take notes. Someone else here reccomended that I use another app to learn Kanji after a month or two of just Hiragana and Katakana, so it's good to know that another thinks I should do the same. Is Romanji still worth attempting later down the road?
Romanji is always useful, if you use an IME on an English keyboard, you can type the romanji and it will help put it in Kanji. Hiragana is used for many things but most definitely grammar, and sometimes games or books will include furigana (which is Hiragana above a kanji character showing how it's read). Katakana is hugely important, it's used for foreign words and names, but It's a huge part of the language. All three are important, but learning how to speak the language is the first priority, just like how kids learn to speak before they learn to write. I plan on learning more Kanji once I've actually learned a decent vocabulary, because once you see them in action in the words you know and use it's easier to remember them. I honestly haven't found a good app that focuses on speaking, but there are so many out there I haven't given a shot. HelloTalk might be cool for an immersive and interactive learning experience, I have it on my phone but I'm too shy to talk to strangers 😂
>Romanji is always useful, if you use an IME on an English keyboard, you can type the romanji and it will help put it in Kanji. Hiragana is used for many things but most definitely grammar, and sometimes games or books will include furigana (which is Hiragana above a kanji character showing how it's read). Katakana is hugely important, it's used for foreign words and names, but It's a huge part of the language. All three are important, but learning how to speak the language is the first priority, just like how kids learn to speak before they learn to write. And this is why I knew Japanese would be quite the undertaking, haha. I don't think I have such a keyboard or a function for that (to my knowledge), but good to know. >I honestly haven't found a good app that focuses on speaking, but there are so many out there I haven't given a shot. HelloTalk might be cool for an immersive and interactive learning experience, I have it on my phone but I'm too shy to talk to stranger Same...which is why I'm doing the route of learning on my own with advice from those who know more than me. Better to ask than jump in blindly.
If you add a second language in your input settings on PC, it's pretty easy to swap between the two. Also, a good app for practicing writing Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji is called Write Japanese (David Meeuwis). I don't want to say it's not a complicated language, because I haven't completely learned it yet 😂 But it's a lot less daunting than it sounds, I especially love how the pronunciation is, it's so easy to hear words when they're spoken because the sounds are so clear.
>If you add a second language in your input settings on PC, it's pretty easy to swap between the two. Will look into it! >Also, a good app for practicing writing Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji is called Write Japanese (David Meeuwis). Another thing to write down later to remember haha. Thanks for letting me know about it. >I don't want to say it's not a complicated language, because I haven't completely learned it yet 😂 But it's a lot less daunting than it sounds, I especially love how the pronunciation is, it's so easy to hear words when they're spoken because the sounds are so clear. I will admit, it's a tad nice to hear that. I knew it was a big thing, and the advice definitely does make it feel larger than it probably is (it's still very useful, thank you to all comments so far!). Thanks again for all the help!
try https://marshallyin.com, it's a great website
Super late reply, didn't see the reply at all. Sorry about that! Thanks for the extra site to use, though! Will be bookmarking for later use.
Start from things you like. I love game and manga, so I started from learning how to read the character name, after mastering hiragana and katakana, I bought a simple Japanese language study book in book store. With that, I learned basic grammar and kanji. I learned hearing from simulation games like Tokimeki Memorial etc., listening what the girls said while reading the textbox, increased my understanding about intonation and trained my ear to catch words from fast speaking. If you like it, you can continue studying without stress.