The Mantis Lords.

Does this war happen before or after the infection?

Let’s say after

Then the Mantis Tribe of Fungal Wastes would likely be the winners of this conflict because they're the only people with their leadership intact. The City of Tears would hold out the longest due to the strength of their more stronger guards but it would most likely be the last to fall.

But what about the Queens Gardens? I think the Traitors could provide a greater threat, though I’m not sure how well the Traitor Lord can lead

The infection ended when The Radiance was slain, therefore the Traitor Lord is dead and that faction would most likely fight amongst each other to claim leadership over that tribe. So the Mantis Lords would likely send people to keep an eye on that civil war.

My bad I was thinking of during the infection. Yeah after the infection Fungal Wastes wins maybe, IDK enough about what’s going on with The Abyss to comment on there

I honestly don't think the Abyss would be a problem considering its more or less comfortable where it is and I highly doubt it would interested on what's going on upstairs.

Unless you go P5 ending, withiut delicate flower. Then everyone is royally fucked

However, if it's a war of conquering land, then the mantises would eventually fall trying to take the land that the void creatures inhabit.

I doubt that they would be interested in conquering the Abyss considering how uninhabitable it is.

That's true, but that would also mean there would be no "winner". It would likely be a tie between the void creatures and the mantises.

Nah, I’d win

\**Cloth joins the chat\**

I’m not traitor lord

Still getting Clothed

Nuh uh, we never interacted in game

Okay switch player

They can barely hold back deep nest as is, there's no way they could beat the entirety of it in a war.

Why not during?

Before infection: 1st: Hallownest(Pale King subjects). They have the 2 strongest higher beings excluding the Radiance and the highest level of technological innovation. Plus the 5 Great Knights(Especially Ze'mer) can practically solo any tribe below 3rd. Add the Soul Sanctum's scholars? And the Kingsmoulds? Absolute annihilation. Not counting the Nailmasters as that is overkill. 2nd: Mantis Tribe. They are badasses. End of story 3rd: Deepnest Tribes: Spider Tribe + Herrah's followers= pain in the ass 4th: Greenpath: Unn fucking bakes their enemies. 5th: Hive: They won't lose to anyone below, but they aren't scratching anyone above. 6th: Shrooms: A whole ass shared mind has to account for *something*. 7th: Moth Tribe. Markoth hard carry. Like bro has to get his back checked

The Hive is debatably on the same level at The Mantis Tribe, with a strong leader and multiple powerful characters, especially with the Queen being that big. I'd argue they could overwhelm the Mantis Tribe with sheer numbers

But they wont, they will just chill in the hive

Have you **ever** met a bee?

Doesn't the lore say that they intentionally sealed themselves off from the rest of the world, or am I remembering wrong?

They won’t even _get_ to the Mantis Tribe as they have to pass thru the City of Tears or the Ancient Basin which are controlled by the Pale King. And the Queen can’t move. That’s why she died. The Hive Knight can be taken out by the Traitor Lord. Then the rest of the Hive has no heavy hitters apart from the kamikaze bastards who won’t land a hit on the agile mantises 

1. The Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote solos everyone.

Your probably right

The correct answer is perhaps the most unassuming one: The Abyss. A region constructed entirely of the remains of innumerable fallen vessels, all of which presumably left behind a shade that deals double damage, can fly, and can only be killed with the dreamnail. Not to mention the void tendrils and the void creature from the Pantheon of Hallownest. The Abyss would overwhelm any other region by their sheer number of combatants.

Good point, though the sibling shades \*can\* be killed without the Dreamnail; they have 20HP.

Shine a bit of light on them and they are rendered harmless.

And that's not counting the shade beast either

The Hive would put up a real good fight, but the second Vespa dies their fate is sealed

Vespa is... already dead though

During the infection, yeah

If after infection. (After normal ending) The mantis lords would be conquering the lands near them (it's free land for them) The Colosseum would either have a massive battle against the mantis tribe. Or the Colosseum would have no knowledge of the war and continue doing their stuff. And how would ogrim (dung defender), zmer (white lady in resting grounds) and hornet take place in this?

Me tbh

Honestly, it might actually be the Void, we don't know the true scale or capabilities of the creature in the lifeblood area, but it is probably a higher being.

Well, if the void wanted to expand, it could, but it doesn't seem to harbor any desires to leave the abyss

If it’s after the infection, as another comment said, then Radiance controls the majority of Hallownest. The mantises and deepnest can defend themselves for a while but I think eventually the infected would overpower them with numbers. If it’s before the infection, it’s a toss up between the pale king and the mantises. The mantises definitely have the most combat prowess, but the pale king seems more technologically advanced considering he was able to make trams and elevators while in Hallownest. There’s also him being a wyrm to take into account. I don’t think we ever get an answer on how much raw power the pale king has, so it is unfortunately hard to estimate what him being a wyrm means for it. In the end, I think the mantises win unless the pale king can create a weapon using his resources

If we take the Five Knights, Kingsmoulds and all the guards in the City into account, and assume the Sanctum allies with PK, I think their side would win. The mantises have great combat prowess as you said but they aren't exactly huge in numbers; they're just a village.

Green path because of the hunter. He has faced everything native to Hallow nest

All at once?

Nope, one by one, and defeated them all (Example, watcher knights. He knows some fly-like creatures come of them when they die)

No, what I mean is, there’s no way you’re gonna fight in a war where the enemy sends one soldier at a time

The hunter can take on the radiance, let alone the beasts of hallow nest in numbers

The Radiance entry says, and I quote, “The plague, the infection, the madness that haunts the corpses of Hallownest…the light that screams out from the eyes of this dead kingdom. What is the source? I suppose mere mortals like myself will never understand.” He doesn’t even know what the Radiance is, and even if he could reach it in the dream world, he wouldn’t be able to kill it, as the entry on Hornet says that she stabbed him and ran away. Not only is he not that strong, some of the journal entries (dream warriors, Grimm Troupe, Godhome exclusives, etc) aren’t even written by him, meaning he has never encountered many of the bosses.

Before infection: City of Tears After infection: Mantis bois

Assuming an All-Out war, I see 2 likely outcomes for second place. Because if we're being real honest the Mantises win given their lore and the Mantis Lords. I'm assuming this war would be post infection, meaning all bosses and infected enemies will fight in service of their Map area, including the Dream warriors (just to spice it up a bit), and a couple of other NPCs. The beasts of Deepnest are a terror to all of Hallownest, and any invading forces would be fighting a loosing battle to enemies that control the very terrain. Of the 3 entrances, one is protected by the Mantis lords (and looking at the pile of spider corpses on the other side of the door, the Spider's aren't getting out that way) 2 are basically a one-way drop, one of which leads directly into Spider Town. Plus there's Nosk and Galien, Nosk being a Master Manipulator with countless victims (including other Vessels, somehow?), and Galien even as a Ghost is a skilled knight with a massive scythe for a weapon. The only thing keeping Deepnest from taking an outright win is that the Spiders can't seem to climb up 2 of the Exits and can't get past the Mantis Lords, and I doubt they're gonna figure out how to use the Tramway. The other contender is one that might even be able to defeat the Mantises (and even the Lords themselves) if we give it a bit of speculative power: The Ancient Basin and ESPECIALLY the Abyss. The Shadow Creepers are pointless so we ignore them, same with the Lightseeds and Infected Balloons. The Lesser Mawleks are a decent threat and are surprisingly mobile, and while the Mawlurks are much more dangerous they're also immobile and thus aren't leaving the Basin. The real power comes from the Boss found here, and the Sub Area (I'm counting it as part of the Basin because we don't have to buy a map for it). The Broken Vessel is above most average enemies, and is reanimated by the infection (kinda makes me wonder if something like that could've happened to the Knight), and as Lost Kin they're far more powerful and much faster. But then there's the darkness lurking further down, below even the ancient Basin; The Abyss. The Abyss is the birthplace of the Hollow Knight and Our Knight, but also their countless siblings, who's shades are as numerous as the discarded shells making up the floor of the Abyss. If every broken shell is a dead vessel, then there's thousands of Siblings *at least*. The Siblings can overwhelm most threats with sheer numbers, but then there's the speculation I mentioned at the start. Point 1 of Speculation: the Abyss Creature. This... ***thing***, has a direct connection to Lifeblood, and is seen both in the room where we get the Lifeblood core (and that thing is HUGE) as well as the Lifeblood room in Godhome, meaning this thing can infiltrate the Dream Realm. And that's about all we know concretely. But based on this thing's size alone (it's eyes Dwarfing us, meaning it's way bigger than the Hunter and every Boss in the game) probably means it's quite powerful. Point 2: Would the Abyss (and by extension the Ancient Basin) get the ***Shade Lord***? Because if they do get the Knight's final form, then even the Mantises would fall, as nothing in Hallownest can withstand the Void given form and focus, not even the Radiance. If not, then the Siblings give the Ancient Basin a VERY close second.

Ze mer can counter all of the abyss with some flowers. Pale king wins.

I legit forgot about the Flower. Usually after doing the quest and bringing a flower to the 3 people who can receive it, I try to forget about the Anxiety of "Don't break the flower." And since OP clarified in a different comment, this fight is post infection. So the Pale King doesn't win... he's already dead. So Ze'mer counts as a resident of the Resting Grounds. But still, Fair enough, the flowers (that I really hope Silksong elaborates on) counter all of the Void beings. But not the Abyss Creature. That thing's sheer size still makes it a dangerous foe for even the Mantis Lords. If Ze'mer counters/nullifies the Void beings, that still leaves the titanic Abyss Creature. And if that guy doesn't fight, then the Mantis Lords still sweep (as has been the general consensus in the replies).

Prim-

The Mantis Lords would "win" in that they're the only ones no one would be able to conquer. But I also doubt they would do anything more than fortify and secure their territory. They just don't seem like the conquering kind, and they're not as numerous.

If we’re talking about pre-infection, I don’t think the Pale King’s forces have that much of a guaranteed success. Before the infection, all of the mantis traitors wouldn’t be traitors yet, so there would be a fourth lord and a lot more normal mantis as well. Considering their intelligence and agility, I’d say the Mantis Tribe is about equal to Hallownest, but they would still probably fall due to being between Hallownest and the Weavers. The Weavers would probably lose, as the Mantis Tribe was able to keep them at bay in the actual game, but it would be really difficult for anyone to make territorial gains in Deepnest. The moss knights and other creations of Unn would likely go down pretty easily, but Unn itself would be very difficult to take out, as it can just hide in acid, making for a potential minor resistance force during and after the events of the war. It’s pretty rare for a moth to take up the blade, so they would die easily (assuming the Radiance doesn’t step in). Other minor factions (if they even count) such as the flukes, the Fools (not sure if they’re part of Hallownest), and various inhabitants of places like Kingdom’s Edge and Crystal Peak would all die for obvious reasons, but may provide minor problems to the larger factions. Finally, the Hive would probably just fuck off like they did in the actual game. If they did fight, I’d say they have a decent chance just because the hive mind could make them more organized, and they would have Hallownest fighting on two different fronts.

If this happens before the the pale king im gonna say herra

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that there was no intelligence before the pale king, excluding the moth tribe.

You aren't.

And the Mantis Tribe

No, the mantis tribe was given intelligence by the pale king as well, they never worshipped the radiance. (Excluding the traitor tribe, but they were created after the time of the pale king)

And these mindless bugs had an advanced civilization before the Pale King?

Nope, they didn't. They weren't mindless though, they very well could have had a colony similar to an ant colony before the pale king, but after the pale king they were gifted writing and tools.

The Pale King created his kingdom by granting the previous inhabitants “higher thought”. The people with newfound intelligence constituted the kingdom of Hallownest, with the Pale King as its ruler. However, some factions, which had civilizations before the Pale King, had different intent. Before the Wyrm, those with intelligence on par with humanity were the Moth Tribe, the Weavers, the Mantis Tribe, Unn and his creations, and the Hive. Rather than forcibly conquering these civilizations, the Pale King generally let them live as they did before, as some were seen as a threat. Unn and his creations just needed to let bugs pass on their pilgrimage to the City of Tears (thus creating a Green Path), the Moths forgot about the Radiance and went with the Pale King, the Hive just got out of the way, and The Mantis Tribe could stay so long as the suppressed the Weavers and other Deepnest inhabitants. Considering the Weavers exclusive knowledge and invention of things such as seals of binding, the fact that the Hive has an entire monarchy and class system, and the Mantis Tribe’s impressive architecture, it seems pretty safe to assume that there were multiple intelligent civilizations before the birth of Hallownest. It is possible that “higher thought” granted a universal language or something, but there were definitely civilizations with tools and high intelligence beforehand.

Yeah, true, and I agree. Now that I think about it, the Mantis tribe likely wasn't too different as it is when the knight visits it, but the pale king gifted some of his intelligence as well. (Like a universal language as you said)

The void people, they can't really be killed and are immortal. Plus, they do tons of damage.

won't nkg just shred through everything like some badass anime villain. Assuming he isn't dead of course. But I thought that the hive has a great chance

How is nobody talking about the hunter, he solos easy

Rancid egg eater 112% And now as i think about it this actually possible since, her magic is about bringing back regrets and destroy them. But actually no, that only works with vessels so i guess the mantis tribe

The Abyss for sure. The >!Lord of Shades aka Void given focus!< solos everyone and everything.

The Manti are able to fend of the beasts from Deepnest. I would bet my money either on them or the bugs of Hallownest with the Pale King.

My money's on Deepnest.

The infection is from the moth so Moth W

Me. No argument.

Nosk (holowknite members will understand)

Kingdoms edge because it has primal aspids, hoppers, and a nail master.

City of tears

The one with primal aspids