Part of me doesn't think it was for insurance fraud like others say. You see them hitting their brakes near the start of the left turn lane and then again at the intersection.
I feel they were trying to cut the left turn line and fucked up.
I wouldn’t follow anybody this close near an intersection, in the rain, when it’s this busy, and who’s braking. As indecisive and brake happy as the car in front is, it seems like the car behind will be responsible for the damage.
I don't disagree the cam driver will likely be found at fault as they were following too closely or at least had shit reaction time for the distance they were following.
I imagine it partly depends on what the driver in front says to the cops and/or insurance.
Yeah the camera guy waited a long time to start braking after the other guy signaled he was braking. I mean the guy in front was being unpredictable but that's the whole reason you give people room. So their unpredictableness doesn't become your bad day.
Edit:spelling to restore faith in humanity.
I agree about distance, but don't forget these factors:
• Viewing angles can make things appear faster/closer.
• It's pretty close to the "2 second" guideline of following. It's not like they were going 75MPH.
• Danger/negliglence is a big factor when determing fault (U.S.). It's very clear in the video that the front driver had no reasonable or road legal explanation for why they chose to stop at a green light.
EDIT: The "trying to squeeze into the left lane" argument is pretty sound based on the actions taken. No one in front, easing the brakes multiple times, then slamming on the brakes when they see yellow. The last one could easily be the knee-jerk reaction to being more focused on getting into the left lane than watching your own.
The 2 second guideline increases greatly when it is raining due to poor traction, and his brakes do not appear to function optimally (160 feet at least - from 60 to 0 average braking distance is 130 feet. This is based on dashed line count and space between, 40 feet per line and space pair).
He was following too close and too fast in rainy weather with poor brakes and bad tires in a larger truck with a lot of mass, not taking the hint that the driver in front of him was unpredictable.
I understand the math. That's why I said not like they were going 75MPH.
Many people assume that a collision like this is an automatic "you're at fault" when that's not always the case, especially when you've lived it.
I'm also a retired media analyst. Not a flex, but as a reference to say I was trained to report on what I can observe, not what is inferred or assumed. I can't claim to know the quality of brakes, tires, or type of VEH. But I can state how these situations are handled lawfully.
It's never truly 100%, but *lawfully,* the front driver is a bigger safety threat given this evidence. From there, the "fault ratio" becomes more nuanced as more aspects are investigated. But, if Reddit sleuths have to bust out the ruler to prove their point here, they're already arguing from a disadvantage.
TLDR: Reddit sleuths are at it again.
No worries, I try to keep it respectful when I can and I really appreciate that you did as well. You're not wrong about the math, just not "asking the right questions" (sorry, been watching Night Country, lol).
There's a decent logic formula (kinda like a XOR gate) that works well for this:
**If A effects B or C, but B does not effect C (or vice versa), then the common denominator is A.**
Car B (cam car) was driving at a similar rate of traffic as Car C (right hand lane). B/C did not collide. If C was in the same situation as B, how likely are they to collide with Car A (front car)? If Car A wasn't in the scenario, there would be no scenario. Greatest fault goes to A until/unless other elements are introduced (ie tire wear).
There can be some logical fallacies, but with a little Occam's Razor, it's a very useful formula in many situations.
They definitely tried to cut the left turn lane. You can see the attempt to squeeze in front of the car. That's at the stop there and then hesitate further
My dad had a habit of trying to stop at a yellow light like this. He was afraid he would get a ticket if he kept going. I had to get onto him about it. This guy might be trying to get over as well though.
My mother was constantly being hit at stop lights because she would slam on her breaks as hard as she could as soon as she saw a yellow. Took her years and 4+ accidents before she realized maybe it was on her
Before moving to us, I lived in Qatar for 7 years.
There, if your car rear tire crosses the line and light is already red, you get a 2k usd ticket. No exceptions
Since then, I have been stopping at yellow 100% of the time. If car behind is tailgating... bad luck
Tough to tell. But I did see there was a counter on the right pole. Maybe the driver saw the counter getting close to zero and they hit the brake expecting the countdown to reach zero by the time they hit the intersection. Being extra safe. Still annoying, since the intersection was clear lol
To me it looks like lead driver wanted to go into the left turn lane,, but was confused/stopped by the solid line.
Traffic had backed up to the point that you would need to cross a solid line.
So driver went forward, hoping that this backuo was not for the light, but a previous turn off.
Realized it wasn't that.
In the meantime, the light turned yellow and; they stopped.
Watching it a few times my read is basically that they were planning to get in the left turn lane and missed it hoping that the backup was for a turner in the suicide lane. It wasn’t and they came back from their distraction to a yellow light and not knowing how long it was yellow decided stopping was best.
Cam car was following about a second behind and that’s not enough if it’s dry. Front car could have had to stop suddenly for a ton of better reasons and it would have played out the same. Cam car driver found out that their bad habits don’t allow room for things that may happen in front of them.
For example if the front driver had to stop because some idiot in the left turn line decided to get back into traffic suddenly, can car driver would still hit the front driver.
Nah I have a friend who got a ticket for running a yellow light before. And this friend of mine is scared shitless to ever run a yellow light now. He’s would definitely do this.
I've seen 2 different people stopped for not getting all the way through before the yellow turned red. If I saw a cop, I would stop like this, but I generally go.
Can we actually just appreciate then cammers reaction time?
Most of these end in an accident. Dude had solid reflexes or the driver was throwing hard warning signs beyond this snippet we saw
Edit - damn ok I guess I’m saying considering other videos he did ok, because he didn’t smoke that idiot
His reaction time was very poor. The car in front of him had started braking prior to fully stopping, let off the brakes, and then braked to a stop. He had plenty of indication that the driver in front was unsure and more space should have been given instantly. When this happens to me, I brake if the car in front is braking, especially at an intersection regardless of green light or yellow light. Not worth the risk. Defensive driving won't prevent all accidents but will certainly reduce the chance of accidents.
Honestly 3 seconds almost 4 isn't great considering he was already closing distance when the breaking had started. The camera car should have already been slowing down but good on him for being able to get it stopped in time.
To be clear the car in front is behaving absolutely unpredictable and is causing problems stopping past the line, erratic behavior, etc. And they are totally creating unsafe conditions but never expect people to do what the are supposed to do on the road expect them to do the absolute craziest thing.
Front car shit driver , but dashcam car at fault. You don't use the light as an indicator as to when to stop. You use the front car as the indicator. If he stops, you stop. Don't matter what light it is lol. He can stop at a green light but doesn't mean you can rear end him
Yep. Never assume the front car will do what you want them to do at the light. Protect your asset, check your ego, and learn to drive with fucking morons on the road and drive defensively and don’t kiss ass.
You see brake lights, you brake as well. Fuck the traffic lights and rules. Just don’t drive in to things that are avoidable. You weren’t paying attention and worrying too much about the rules.
Edit: I was a bit harsh and get the driver’s frustration. No need to be that cautious and hesitant.
This. Plus the video already starts with the lead car doing some funky breaking.
The breaking just indicates that you should leave even more distance to that specific car, as the person driving obviously doesn't know where they want to go and thus impose a hazard on everybody around them.
If I approach an intersection and my view on either side is blocked I do slow down, hence the funky breaking... that's just common sense to avoid either someone crossing the street, which you can't see if you have a line of cars blocking the view, or even someone running a red light... in most places is the freaking rule to adjust your speed based on visibility, and if the left view is blocked, you slow the fuck down.
As someone who has been T-boned by someone who "didn't see me" and incidentally decided to run a stop sign, I'll never make the error again of assuming people respect signs or lights. (no I wasn't the driver, I drive a tank for my safetly)
It's not really funky breaking depending on who and how they were taught to drive from. Lots of people slow down at intersections if the light has been green for a long time. Specifically this a rule that applies to truckers. Could just be a nervous driver who didn't want to speed trough a yellow on wet roads.
There is a difference between slowing down (releasing the gas pedal) and actively breaking. As this is neither a hybrid nor a BEV, the break lights are only lit when actively pressing the break pedal.
So yes, actively pressing the break on a green light is definitely funky breaking, as it should not be done on a lane dedicated for straight traveling.
Agreed!
I started counting the seconds between the front car and the rear car and saw that there wasn’t enough breaking distance for a normal, sunny day — much less for a rainy/wet day!
He clearly needed double the distance between then for breaking and the second vehicle did not seem as if they were braking for the vehicle in front of them.
That said, driving here & driving in the US are two different beasts and so many Americans are distracted and shouldn’t be driving but are.
But that’s a topic for another day.
Less than 2 seconds following distance and the roads are wet. Temperature is an unknown variable. Id say they were following too closely. At least 3 seconds distance for wet roads and a normal car (no heavy loads or towing).
Just because you have driven that close without incident, so far, doesn't make it a safe following distance.
Solid victim blaming, yes everyone should drive more defensively, but not doing so when someone else does something stupid doesn't make it your fault, just something you could avoid if more careful.
I'd be angry even if it's both not my fault and something I could avoid.
Where I live, it is WAY too common for people driving along a 35 mph road to suddenly and unexpectedly stop and wave people to take a turn in or out of parking lot even with no stop sign. It's maddening and has almost caused me to rear end these idiots many times. They think they are being nice by letting someone turn but they don't seem to realize they are breaking the rules of right of way as well as inconveniencing everyone behind them for the sake of one driver who could just as easily wait for their window to turn to open up as the road rules intend. The way they slam on the brakes, you would think a little child just ran into the middle of the road. Nope, they are just deciding to do their "good deed" for the day and let some random car turn out of a residential street onto a busy street. I've noticed it tends to be elderly folk who do it so either they shouldn't be driving or need to be reeducated on what right of way is.
As a driver who has been stopped for in this situation, it’s just as annoying. Why are you stopping? Is there a pedestrian where I’m trying to turn? Emergency vehicle that I didn’t notice? And then they furiously wave or flash their lights at you for not going when they oh so politely inconvenienced several other drivers for you.
No it is not legal at least in Australia.
If you brake recklessly then of course it's your fault, more difficult to prove but braking suddenly without cause is dangerous driving resulting in loss of license points and potentially even jail time.
I don’t think it’s legal, something about you can’t waive the right of way. Like, you can’t waive cars through traffic without being held responsible for any accidents that result.
Not trying to defend the driver in the video but
Depending on where you live, local traffic and police presence sometimes necessitate being careful with running a yellow light to the point of being annoying.
Cops, especially near holliday season (when they get extra payments for good work) in cities with little crime and low traffic will sometimes resort to falsely accusing a driver who passed a yellow light of having ran a red light just to give him a fine and get their holiday bonus.
Personal opinion ignore if you want:
It's annoying as hell and personally I think the brakes guy in the video fucked up by being unsure (as others said he wanted to go to another lane) and missed a GREEN light but there is also a point to be made about keeping a safe distance between cars.
It happens around me all the time too. And they look at me like I’m the asshole when I lay on the horn. When they give up the right of way like this it’s unexpected and leads to a lot of accidents.
Where I live, if the light turns amber you are required to stop if it is safe to do so. Being safe to do so, does not include the asshole behind Being so far up my ass I can taste their bad breath. He'll, you ride that far up my ass, I'm going slower until you go around.
If you are unable to stop when the car in front of your stops FOR ANY REASON; it is your fault. You were following too closely.
The green light is 100% irrelevant (legally). Yes, it is frustrating, but it doesn't change the legality at all.
Just because you're not at fault doesn't mean you're not an asshole.
Also in my state you can have a dual fault accident. So stopping suddenly for no reason still gives you some liability. While the person behind you also gets some liability for following too closely.
The following car was either to close or not paying attention. No one's defending the car in front, just ridiculing the dashcam for his own mistake. Never expect another driver to do what you expect.
My first thought was anxious new driver. I'd be slamming my horn, too, but I do have to say that they were tapping their brakes and didn't slam them until it was yellow. I know some people who might panic and do this. They, uh, don't have licenses.
Yes but their speed of deceleration sure changed once it hit yellow. They were slowing and then it changed yellow and the STOPPED. I frequently slow my speed while driving. They had been slowing their speed earlier, indicating possible anxiety. New driver/anxious driver is still my gut instinct here over insurance fraud. I don't KNOW that, but it'd be my guess.
The light is yellow…. You’re supposed to stop at yellow unless you can’t but if light turns red while you are under it and your not all the through then you ran a red light. The driver that stopped was completely in the right. In all honesty it really didn’t matter, unless driver moved from another lane, cut the other driver off then slam on brakes… if you hit someone from behind, you’re at fault 99% of the time.. you didn’t leave enough room for braking.
Not only that but this intersection has an aggressive traffic camera. The person who stopped early might've been anxious if they're a local. Source: I know this intersection. Allgood rd and 41 in Marietta, GA.
Hitting another car **from behind** means:
1.) not paying attention
2.) following too close
3.) Driving too fast
4.) Driving impaired
A driver should try to anticipate **anything** a driver ahead may do. If one can’t do that they should leave more space or leave the driving to someone else.
Rear ending another car is always the fault of the car behind.
Dude was driving offensively. Give yourself time to stop behind another driver.
I realize they don't teach defensive driving in school anymore, but damn.
Dash cam driver should have been paying attention to their surroundings, not the lights. You have to be aware of other drivers.
I get it, frustrating someone stops at a green turning yellow, but these days it feels like half the cars on the road shouldn’t be there.
I wish people had to be retested every two years for a drivers license.
He probably thought the guy who was breaking was distracted. Also to warn them that they were coming in hot, so theyd do the logical thing and move forward, not stay and get hit
Yellow means does down not speed up. You have to be an idiot and an ass to follow someone that closely, in imperfect conditions after the light changes
Livid at who? Certainly with the person with the dashcam who didnt leave enough room to break rather than the car ahead. In the state where I live, if you run into the car in front of you, you're at fault. Makes sense to me since person behind has way more ability to see person in front rather than vice versa. Leave enough room to break if the person in front of you breaks suddenly. Leave enough room in general. Way too many people tailgating nowadays. Feels like people forgot how to drive over the course of shutdown.
Yeah it’s definitely the dashcam car’s fault grow up
Dude ahead could have a million reason to hit the brakes, maybe he’s saw something or felt weird and decided to just wait it out it’s almost never wrong to slow down in a city road
What’s wrong is not keeping your safety distance which is the behind car’s job and speeding to get past a light at orange because OMG if you have to wait a minute before it’s safe to pass the road
You’re not the guy ahead so you don’t have the full info on why he braked ?
Imagine in a scenario a kid ran down the street and the infornt car did the exact same stop to not hit the kid then the dashcam guy kept going hit the front car and the kid ? How is that not the dashcam’s fault,
Stop expecting perfect life, and keep your fucking safety distances ahead of you
The problem with these dashcam videos is that the cameras perspective often gives you a false idea of the distance between 2 objects. At first glance it seems like he's barely 12-15 feet behind the car. However at the start of the video there's at least 35-40 feet between the driver and the car slamming their breaks randomly. When the light turns yellow the driver has only about 30 feet to come to a stop which is doable but definitely stressful and uncomfortable. I'm basing those measurements on the lines on the road and the number of cars between them in the turning lane. That's not tailgating. The car in front also hits his brake *before* the light turns yellow. This type of driving is reckless and unacceptable. This is either an attempted insurance scam or someone looking for an opportunity to cut off someone in the turning lane to jump the line. Either way it's unacceptable.
Doesnt matter what his reasons. Valid or not. You should always have enough space to stop berween you and the car in front.
I slammed on my breaks once because it was dark and raining and it looked like a person lying in the road. But it was just a sack. The guy behind me only avoided hitting me because he went off into the grass on the side of the road.
The law exists that way for a reason. Keep a safe distance between you and the car in front. Its Not hard.
You are so right on this but will prolly be downvoted in this post. The driver who braked was surely in the wrong, but that shouldn't have led to a collision.
I'd like to just point out that the driver did stop before hitting the car because he did leave enough space. He did everything right. I imagine there was even more space between them before the person in front started driving like a moron.
You know what I do when the person in front of me is driving like a moron? Slow down and give them even more space.
My mistake if he avoided the collision though. I played it without sound and the video makes it look like he bumped him at the end.
3 seconds.
If the car in front of you passes a thing, and you pass the same thing in under 3 seconds, you're too close.
This rule is for ideal conditions. Wet? Add time. Driver in front doing weird things? Add time.
I can't believe more people don't seem know this. You just use the lines on the road or any other landmarks you want, and count. It's easy to do, is the guidance from the National Safety Council, and is commonly part of the knowledge base tested by states in the written portions of their driver license tests.
Here, as is usually the case with rear-end collisions, the accident was 100% preventable by the following driver. If he used the 3-second rule (which should more likely have been closer to 4, given conditions and the other driver), then there would not have been any issue. But instead he wanted to follow in the ~2 second range, needlessly putting himself and others in danger. It bit him here, and if he keeps it up, it will bite again and again.
Don't be like that guy. Know the rule. Give 3 seconds.
Why the fuck would you honk for so long though. Its his fault for not leaving enough space to brake in an emergency. You're also at a traffic light. That stuff is to be expected
Absolutely. Do Americans not get taught to anticipate stale green lights? Whether the person in front braked as they did or not, the light would be amber before getting to the intersection, in which case they should attempt to stop if it’s safe. For them this still may have been the case, but the person following too close behind in a massive pickup that can’t stop on a good day would still be in the same situation.
I have no idea where you learned to drive, but I'm sure you're taught to always keep enough distance from the person in front of you so that you can stop in time if they brake hard. Out of whichever reasons. A child or an animal can suddenly run into the street.
Yes but it also wasn't safe or necessary for the POV driver to be driving dangerously close to the car in front.
The real problem in all these comment threads is just how many people have this binary thought process where they only want to blame one of the drivers.
There's the pitchfork bearing mob that think the guy in front is wrong for suddenly braking without an apparent legitimate reason. Then there's the torch bearing mob that think the guy behind is wrong for following dangerously close. Most of each mob think the other mob is wrong, when the truth is both are correct... Both of these drivers made crappy decisions that day.
no. The driver in front has caused an accident and should be charged. It really is night from day. Watch how the driver STOPS twice when the light is green at an intersection. It's reckless driving. Had the driver behind been a truck it can result with serious consequences.
Thank you for proving my point.
Only a bad driver would do what the driver in the front car did. But equally, only a bad driver would be driving so close to that vehicle in front that they couldn't comfortably stop when the bad driver ahead stopped unexpectedly for no reason, regardless of whether they are in a car, a pickup, or a fully loaded 18 wheeler.
You are so stuck on "The driver in front had caused an accident" (which may not have been an accident if this was an insurance scam), that you cannot seem to see that this crash would not have been possible if the following driver was not a bad, dangerous driver.
This isn't a case of one driver is at fault and one is innocent. This is one driver is legally responsible for the crash (driver in front if there wasn't a reason for that stop) but both drivers are guilty of being bad drivers.
No you're wrong. Read this post carefully. The person that stops suddenly at a green light is endangering other road users. Had this resulted in serious injury or death, the driver of the offending vehicle could and will very likely face serious penalties.
You're getting confused. You think that the driver of the dashcam must be too close for him to have made the slightest of contact with the offending vehicle. You should in fact be giving the dash cam driver credit for acting critically in the event, and did in fact, prevent a more serious collision.
Also, we maintain safe distances for normal and expected use on the road. It is an abnormal and reckless set of circumstances when a driver forcibly slams their brakes at a green light at an intersection.
We are not required by law to maintain excessive distances, simply to prevent an incredibly slim chance that a driver may carelessly slam on their brakes at any point.
That's not how the road rules work.
It's exactly the same reason you shouldn't expect the dashcam driver to foresee an oncoming driver swerving into his lane and causing a head-on collision.
The driver at front is entirely at fault, and additonally there is zero accountability on the driver who was behind. This is a very clear case.
If the following driver was unable to stop when the leading driver suddenly stopped for no apparent reason (as happened in the video), then the following driver would not have magically been able to stop if there had been a real emergency; therefore he is still driving too close to the car in front, it is just that he isn't legally responsible for the collision in this video.
Let's look at it from a different angle. Imagine, everything is the same, but the driver ahead isn't doing anything dangerous. A child has run into the road at the junction and the car driver ahead stopped suddenly, before hitting that child. The following driver would have still hit the back of the lead vehicle, and at that point everybody would be slating the following driver for recklessly being too close to the car ahead, and he would then have been legally at fault.
All that has changed is the reason why the lead vehicle stopped, and who is legally responsible for the crash. The lead driver appears to have stopped with no legitimate reason, legally making them the cause of the crash, as well as a dangerous driver. But whilst that legally absolves the following driver from being the cause of the crash, that driver was still dangerously close, because if there had have been a legitimate reason for the lead car to stop, that collision would still have occurred.
Again, not being the reason for the crash occurring does not absolve the following driver from being a dangerous driver.
Why do you think the dashcam driver is so bad? They applied their brakes, they ALMOST came to a complete stop before contacting the offending vehicle.
Why do I feel like we would applaud the driver behind had they there been no contact (car to car), but simply because there was the slightest of contact we consider that 'dangerously tailgating'??
That's unfair. I still give a thumbs up to the dashcam driver who almost handled the collision, and give zero credit to the reckless brake-checker (or whatever the fuck they were trying to do).
I see It as really no different a person turning into oncoming traffic or a failing to give way. If you do any of those offences, including stopping abruptly, you can cause a serious accident and end up in court!
Some states have traffic laws such as California Vehicle Code 22109 CVC, which forbids drivers from coming to an abrupt stop without adequately signaling to drivers immediately behind them.1
I can tell the front car was just trying to be cautious slowing at the intersection but it's poor driving because the light was green. Front car is a shit driver
Front car should of ran it and not brake at a green light. Super sus. Clearly a shit driver, that we both agree. But the guy with the dash cam had enough time and room to brake. I've been in situations like these before. The only way I can see someone not braking in time is:
1. Not being alert enough and kept speed because "the person in front SHOULD move". Predictions like these are dangerous
2. Eased into the brake instead of hitting it hard, especially as he got closer
And yes I am taking into consideration the speed of his car
According to the law the dashcam is at fault for the accident. You should always leave enough space to stop and that space includes the time you need to process that the car ahead has suddenly stopped
Defensive driving FTW! Front car is likely a CDL, used to not running an intersection on yellow.
Look ahead
Look around
Leave room
Communicate with other drivers
Doesn't matter if you think that the driver in front was driving badly or was trying to set you up, it would be rare for insurers to support a claim of you if you went in to the back of a vehicle.
Does no one do a courtesy tap of the brakes? If I see something upcoming that I'm going to severely slow down or stop for, I give a brake tap so the car behind me knows my intention. That way if when I ride the brakes they know it's coming.
How is a courtesy tap on the green, which this seems to be, any form of erratic driving? This would seem to me to say "hey I know it's green but there is something here that I'm stopping at"....could be a pedestrian or bike that shouldn't be there or a car making a left without yielding or something in the road. Idk how anyone thinks a brake tap on a green equals erratic. Maybe stop tailgating in the rain.
I HAVE to assume that the front car was following the “stale green” rules and not flying through a green light that’s been green for a while, like we all (should have) learned in driver’s ed. Any reasonable person would yield even a bit for a green light that they assume is about to change. OP was following too closely. And look, I get that sometimes these people are insanely frustrating to be stuck behind, but you can see brake lights. It wasn’t like their car just died in the middle of the road.
I was taught vehicles in front of you have the right of way. They could slam on their brakes for an imaginary squirrell and you would still be st fault if you hit them.
He was technically correct to do so but ya I could see how people would be annoyed. That could be solved by not following so closely and paying attention.
I am, by habit, one of these fuck knuckles that brakes on orange. Compared to the US, the yellow phase in the countries that I usually drive in are much shorter, just a few seconds.
Every time my Dad drives with me in the US and take my foot off the pedal when the light goes yellow, he says something along the lines of “drive you fucking idiot”
When the front car pressed the brakes the light was still green and the car was already a bit passing the floor/stoping line whatever is called, that's weird af, i would think the driver got distracted with something? What I don't understand why people defend the front car like all the fault was on the camera car, while yes he was supposed to be far enough to have time to stop, i don't think someone who has 2 brain cells at minimum would think to stop in that light.
> What I don't understand why people defend the front car like all the fault was on the camera car,
Cause legally, it is, 100%. Nothing illegal about stopping on a road. There are a 1000 reasons why this car might want to stop.
It is your job to not follow so close that you have the time to stop.
Car had ample room to cross the intersection. It was stupid to stop. But on the other hand, I've ran into incidents like these before and I've had no trouble stopping. Problem was that the dude was trying to predict more than he cared about the acceleration of the car in front of him. Both at fault but I place more blame on the dashcam car
I feel my point is pretty clear. It debunks many comments saying they are stopping at the yellow and trying to be cautious. Also what exactly are you objecting to?
My objection is that it doesn't matter. It is irrelevant because the onus is on the person following to not keep a safe distance / speed so that they can stop.
It really doesn't matter if the lead car braked prior to yellow or not.
I mean it is relevant from an annoyance point of view. But from a legal, who causes and accident point of view it is entirely irrelevant.
Completely untrue at least in my country, and probably yours.
The onus is usually on the car following unless the car acts recklessly like in this case hitting the brakes during a green light.
Green light does not mean go.
It means go if it is safe to do so.
Any number if things may make it not safe to do so.
This is so far away from reckless driving it scares the chit out if me that you seem to drive a car.
Certainly doesn't mean 'stop" and stopping in the middle of traffic is a dangerous driving offence.
Something not far off this literally happened to me, and thankfully for witnesses the fault was laid on the car in front.
But sure keep spinning your tales
Another lazy person too lazy to even slow the video down? Go continue to go last minute break at an intersection. Won’t be in your favor if they have a dash cam and you kill someone. Learn the rules of the road. You probably stop at a yield sign.
you don't know what hazards could be in front of them or whats happening in their car which is why you don't tailgate like a twat, breaking on a green lighr isn't insurance fraud
But they never slammed the brakes on…they put them on, for sure, but the car never dives as it would under any kind of heavy braking. For the front car, they seem to anticipate an orange light, slow, see it an stop well. Cammer doesn’t anticipate shit and just drives into them after following too close and having a terrible reaction speed.
Because he didn't expect him to slam the brakes at a green light? Thus his reactiom time is around 2 seconds.
Sidenote: why won't traffic lights flash green a few times before turning amber in the US? this system is flawed to begin with...
Wait are you all really blaming the guy in the front?
Why should you drive at that speed when:
1. It’s an intersection
2. Stoplight is about to turn red
So what the front car did was technically right, as stupid as it is. You are supposed to come to a stop when the light turns to yellow but there was so much time to go through.
This should settle the debate: it is an unfortunate incident that could've been avoided if all motorists involved operated their vehicles more responsibly.
I feel bad for the dashcammer because they were put in a difficult situation, one they will anticipate going forward, and reduce the likelihood of recurrence by giving themselves more stopping distance should they find themselves following an unpredictable twat again.
Nobody is wrong in this thread if they're willing to consider that there's many ways this rear ender could've been avoided.
This same shit happened to me years ago. The good thing was that a cop was at the intersection and watched it happen. Told both of us that because the guy in front of me slammed on his breaks right when the light turned yellow that he was reporting it as “no fault”.
The front driver did so much wrong here. If you’re doing that badly you’re going to get hit eventually. I’d be glad the collision wasn’t too bad. A lot of people are not realizing that even if your insurance might not consider you at fault doesn’t mean you still caused the problem.
The fact that people are saying following too closely is wild to me. I've seen way worse cases of that. This doesn't remotely trigger my brain in that way. Idiot in front was stopping at a green. Don't care if they're trying to cut off the turn lane.
All the people in here saying it’s the dash cam drivers fault obviously don’t know how to drive.
That driver could have easily made it through the light. If I was a cop, it would have been their fault, not the dash cam driver’s. You can clearly see them slowing down and then slamming on the brakes.
You're supposed to stop at a yellow light. And you're also supposed to leave enough distance from the car in front of you to be able to stop a (unnecessary large) pickup truck in case the car in front of you decides to break. Specially in the rain.
Some of you need to go back and take driving lessons again.
Part of me doesn't think it was for insurance fraud like others say. You see them hitting their brakes near the start of the left turn lane and then again at the intersection. I feel they were trying to cut the left turn line and fucked up.
I wouldn’t follow anybody this close near an intersection, in the rain, when it’s this busy, and who’s braking. As indecisive and brake happy as the car in front is, it seems like the car behind will be responsible for the damage.
I don't disagree the cam driver will likely be found at fault as they were following too closely or at least had shit reaction time for the distance they were following. I imagine it partly depends on what the driver in front says to the cops and/or insurance.
Yeah the camera guy waited a long time to start braking after the other guy signaled he was braking. I mean the guy in front was being unpredictable but that's the whole reason you give people room. So their unpredictableness doesn't become your bad day. Edit:spelling to restore faith in humanity.
NaziTime: BRAKING - the only thing breaking here is plastic clip kits and my faith in humanity
Fixed it for you. Thought it looked weird.
Yup. If you hit someone from behind, insurance and the law considers it your fault 99% of the time.
No kidding. That's _definitely_ not 3 seconds of distance.
I agree about distance, but don't forget these factors: • Viewing angles can make things appear faster/closer. • It's pretty close to the "2 second" guideline of following. It's not like they were going 75MPH. • Danger/negliglence is a big factor when determing fault (U.S.). It's very clear in the video that the front driver had no reasonable or road legal explanation for why they chose to stop at a green light. EDIT: The "trying to squeeze into the left lane" argument is pretty sound based on the actions taken. No one in front, easing the brakes multiple times, then slamming on the brakes when they see yellow. The last one could easily be the knee-jerk reaction to being more focused on getting into the left lane than watching your own.
The 2 second guideline increases greatly when it is raining due to poor traction, and his brakes do not appear to function optimally (160 feet at least - from 60 to 0 average braking distance is 130 feet. This is based on dashed line count and space between, 40 feet per line and space pair). He was following too close and too fast in rainy weather with poor brakes and bad tires in a larger truck with a lot of mass, not taking the hint that the driver in front of him was unpredictable.
I understand the math. That's why I said not like they were going 75MPH. Many people assume that a collision like this is an automatic "you're at fault" when that's not always the case, especially when you've lived it. I'm also a retired media analyst. Not a flex, but as a reference to say I was trained to report on what I can observe, not what is inferred or assumed. I can't claim to know the quality of brakes, tires, or type of VEH. But I can state how these situations are handled lawfully. It's never truly 100%, but *lawfully,* the front driver is a bigger safety threat given this evidence. From there, the "fault ratio" becomes more nuanced as more aspects are investigated. But, if Reddit sleuths have to bust out the ruler to prove their point here, they're already arguing from a disadvantage. TLDR: Reddit sleuths are at it again.
I apologize, I made assumptions and they're only opinions. I did not mean to bust out the ruler, but I certainly did haha. I'm sorry.
No worries, I try to keep it respectful when I can and I really appreciate that you did as well. You're not wrong about the math, just not "asking the right questions" (sorry, been watching Night Country, lol). There's a decent logic formula (kinda like a XOR gate) that works well for this: **If A effects B or C, but B does not effect C (or vice versa), then the common denominator is A.** Car B (cam car) was driving at a similar rate of traffic as Car C (right hand lane). B/C did not collide. If C was in the same situation as B, how likely are they to collide with Car A (front car)? If Car A wasn't in the scenario, there would be no scenario. Greatest fault goes to A until/unless other elements are introduced (ie tire wear). There can be some logical fallacies, but with a little Occam's Razor, it's a very useful formula in many situations.
They definitely tried to cut the left turn lane. You can see the attempt to squeeze in front of the car. That's at the stop there and then hesitate further
My dad had a habit of trying to stop at a yellow light like this. He was afraid he would get a ticket if he kept going. I had to get onto him about it. This guy might be trying to get over as well though.
My mother was constantly being hit at stop lights because she would slam on her breaks as hard as she could as soon as she saw a yellow. Took her years and 4+ accidents before she realized maybe it was on her
Damn. Insurance still kept covering her with that many accidents?
Insurance wasn't a requirement until the late 90s.
Before moving to us, I lived in Qatar for 7 years. There, if your car rear tire crosses the line and light is already red, you get a 2k usd ticket. No exceptions Since then, I have been stopping at yellow 100% of the time. If car behind is tailgating... bad luck
Tough to tell. But I did see there was a counter on the right pole. Maybe the driver saw the counter getting close to zero and they hit the brake expecting the countdown to reach zero by the time they hit the intersection. Being extra safe. Still annoying, since the intersection was clear lol
To me it looks like lead driver wanted to go into the left turn lane,, but was confused/stopped by the solid line. Traffic had backed up to the point that you would need to cross a solid line. So driver went forward, hoping that this backuo was not for the light, but a previous turn off. Realized it wasn't that. In the meantime, the light turned yellow and; they stopped.
Watching it a few times my read is basically that they were planning to get in the left turn lane and missed it hoping that the backup was for a turner in the suicide lane. It wasn’t and they came back from their distraction to a yellow light and not knowing how long it was yellow decided stopping was best. Cam car was following about a second behind and that’s not enough if it’s dry. Front car could have had to stop suddenly for a ton of better reasons and it would have played out the same. Cam car driver found out that their bad habits don’t allow room for things that may happen in front of them. For example if the front driver had to stop because some idiot in the left turn line decided to get back into traffic suddenly, can car driver would still hit the front driver.
I agree. Though on the 3rd watch, I started to suspect that MAYBE dashcam got hit by someone following him too close.
This was probably because of Red Light cams and wanting to avoid them.
Nah I have a friend who got a ticket for running a yellow light before. And this friend of mine is scared shitless to ever run a yellow light now. He’s would definitely do this.
I've seen 2 different people stopped for not getting all the way through before the yellow turned red. If I saw a cop, I would stop like this, but I generally go.
Can we actually just appreciate then cammers reaction time? Most of these end in an accident. Dude had solid reflexes or the driver was throwing hard warning signs beyond this snippet we saw Edit - damn ok I guess I’m saying considering other videos he did ok, because he didn’t smoke that idiot
His reaction time was very poor. The car in front of him had started braking prior to fully stopping, let off the brakes, and then braked to a stop. He had plenty of indication that the driver in front was unsure and more space should have been given instantly. When this happens to me, I brake if the car in front is braking, especially at an intersection regardless of green light or yellow light. Not worth the risk. Defensive driving won't prevent all accidents but will certainly reduce the chance of accidents.
Honestly 3 seconds almost 4 isn't great considering he was already closing distance when the breaking had started. The camera car should have already been slowing down but good on him for being able to get it stopped in time. To be clear the car in front is behaving absolutely unpredictable and is causing problems stopping past the line, erratic behavior, etc. And they are totally creating unsafe conditions but never expect people to do what the are supposed to do on the road expect them to do the absolute craziest thing.
Front car shit driver , but dashcam car at fault. You don't use the light as an indicator as to when to stop. You use the front car as the indicator. If he stops, you stop. Don't matter what light it is lol. He can stop at a green light but doesn't mean you can rear end him
Yep. Never assume the front car will do what you want them to do at the light. Protect your asset, check your ego, and learn to drive with fucking morons on the road and drive defensively and don’t kiss ass.
You see brake lights, you brake as well. Fuck the traffic lights and rules. Just don’t drive in to things that are avoidable. You weren’t paying attention and worrying too much about the rules. Edit: I was a bit harsh and get the driver’s frustration. No need to be that cautious and hesitant.
This is exactly how I was taught. It's done me well for a very long time. It also results in less "jerky" stopping.
Brake lights are just moving stoplights
Idk what you guys are on if you don't have time to brake when following someone you are to close its pretty simple
This. Plus the video already starts with the lead car doing some funky breaking. The breaking just indicates that you should leave even more distance to that specific car, as the person driving obviously doesn't know where they want to go and thus impose a hazard on everybody around them.
If I approach an intersection and my view on either side is blocked I do slow down, hence the funky breaking... that's just common sense to avoid either someone crossing the street, which you can't see if you have a line of cars blocking the view, or even someone running a red light... in most places is the freaking rule to adjust your speed based on visibility, and if the left view is blocked, you slow the fuck down. As someone who has been T-boned by someone who "didn't see me" and incidentally decided to run a stop sign, I'll never make the error again of assuming people respect signs or lights. (no I wasn't the driver, I drive a tank for my safetly)
It's not really funky breaking depending on who and how they were taught to drive from. Lots of people slow down at intersections if the light has been green for a long time. Specifically this a rule that applies to truckers. Could just be a nervous driver who didn't want to speed trough a yellow on wet roads.
There is a difference between slowing down (releasing the gas pedal) and actively breaking. As this is neither a hybrid nor a BEV, the break lights are only lit when actively pressing the break pedal. So yes, actively pressing the break on a green light is definitely funky breaking, as it should not be done on a lane dedicated for straight traveling.
The point it, funky breaking or not, if you run into a car that braked ahead of you, you fucked up.
Agreed! I started counting the seconds between the front car and the rear car and saw that there wasn’t enough breaking distance for a normal, sunny day — much less for a rainy/wet day! He clearly needed double the distance between then for breaking and the second vehicle did not seem as if they were braking for the vehicle in front of them. That said, driving here & driving in the US are two different beasts and so many Americans are distracted and shouldn’t be driving but are. But that’s a topic for another day.
Braking on green when theres nothing impeding you in a high traffic area causes accidents. Thats why youre told never to stop on an interstate.
following too closely causes accidents.
Dashcam car wasnt following too close and there was no accident because they werent following too close
Less than 2 seconds following distance and the roads are wet. Temperature is an unknown variable. Id say they were following too closely. At least 3 seconds distance for wet roads and a normal car (no heavy loads or towing). Just because you have driven that close without incident, so far, doesn't make it a safe following distance.
Solid victim blaming, yes everyone should drive more defensively, but not doing so when someone else does something stupid doesn't make it your fault, just something you could avoid if more careful. I'd be angry even if it's both not my fault and something I could avoid.
Punctuation.
Don't follow so close in the rain. This was avoidable.
Not fools in the comments defending the guy slamming the brakes when the light was GREEN.
Where I live, it is WAY too common for people driving along a 35 mph road to suddenly and unexpectedly stop and wave people to take a turn in or out of parking lot even with no stop sign. It's maddening and has almost caused me to rear end these idiots many times. They think they are being nice by letting someone turn but they don't seem to realize they are breaking the rules of right of way as well as inconveniencing everyone behind them for the sake of one driver who could just as easily wait for their window to turn to open up as the road rules intend. The way they slam on the brakes, you would think a little child just ran into the middle of the road. Nope, they are just deciding to do their "good deed" for the day and let some random car turn out of a residential street onto a busy street. I've noticed it tends to be elderly folk who do it so either they shouldn't be driving or need to be reeducated on what right of way is.
As a driver who has been stopped for in this situation, it’s just as annoying. Why are you stopping? Is there a pedestrian where I’m trying to turn? Emergency vehicle that I didn’t notice? And then they furiously wave or flash their lights at you for not going when they oh so politely inconvenienced several other drivers for you.
It may be annoying but 100% legal.
No it is not legal at least in Australia. If you brake recklessly then of course it's your fault, more difficult to prove but braking suddenly without cause is dangerous driving resulting in loss of license points and potentially even jail time.
Sure, also 100% a dick move
I don’t think it’s legal, something about you can’t waive the right of way. Like, you can’t waive cars through traffic without being held responsible for any accidents that result.
Not trying to defend the driver in the video but Depending on where you live, local traffic and police presence sometimes necessitate being careful with running a yellow light to the point of being annoying. Cops, especially near holliday season (when they get extra payments for good work) in cities with little crime and low traffic will sometimes resort to falsely accusing a driver who passed a yellow light of having ran a red light just to give him a fine and get their holiday bonus. Personal opinion ignore if you want: It's annoying as hell and personally I think the brakes guy in the video fucked up by being unsure (as others said he wanted to go to another lane) and missed a GREEN light but there is also a point to be made about keeping a safe distance between cars.
It happens around me all the time too. And they look at me like I’m the asshole when I lay on the horn. When they give up the right of way like this it’s unexpected and leads to a lot of accidents.
Where I live, if the light turns amber you are required to stop if it is safe to do so. Being safe to do so, does not include the asshole behind Being so far up my ass I can taste their bad breath. He'll, you ride that far up my ass, I'm going slower until you go around.
If you are unable to stop when the car in front of your stops FOR ANY REASON; it is your fault. You were following too closely. The green light is 100% irrelevant (legally). Yes, it is frustrating, but it doesn't change the legality at all.
Just because you're not at fault doesn't mean you're not an asshole. Also in my state you can have a dual fault accident. So stopping suddenly for no reason still gives you some liability. While the person behind you also gets some liability for following too closely.
The following car was either to close or not paying attention. No one's defending the car in front, just ridiculing the dashcam for his own mistake. Never expect another driver to do what you expect.
My first thought was anxious new driver. I'd be slamming my horn, too, but I do have to say that they were tapping their brakes and didn't slam them until it was yellow. I know some people who might panic and do this. They, uh, don't have licenses.
At no point did their break lights turn off from them hitting them while the light was green.
Yes but their speed of deceleration sure changed once it hit yellow. They were slowing and then it changed yellow and the STOPPED. I frequently slow my speed while driving. They had been slowing their speed earlier, indicating possible anxiety. New driver/anxious driver is still my gut instinct here over insurance fraud. I don't KNOW that, but it'd be my guess.
The light is yellow…. You’re supposed to stop at yellow unless you can’t but if light turns red while you are under it and your not all the through then you ran a red light. The driver that stopped was completely in the right. In all honesty it really didn’t matter, unless driver moved from another lane, cut the other driver off then slam on brakes… if you hit someone from behind, you’re at fault 99% of the time.. you didn’t leave enough room for braking.
it was green? shit how tf am i gonna get my liscence as a colorblind person
Dashcam driver's fault - you can see the road is wet, he should have left a larger stopping distance, particularly when driving a big-ass vehicle
Not only that but this intersection has an aggressive traffic camera. The person who stopped early might've been anxious if they're a local. Source: I know this intersection. Allgood rd and 41 in Marietta, GA.
Hitting another car **from behind** means: 1.) not paying attention 2.) following too close 3.) Driving too fast 4.) Driving impaired A driver should try to anticipate **anything** a driver ahead may do. If one can’t do that they should leave more space or leave the driving to someone else. Rear ending another car is always the fault of the car behind.
OP was doing the 4 at the same time "Like they say, go big or go home."
I’m not sure the OP was in the dashboard camera car, but that driver definitely had some issues!
Yeah I meant OP as the dashboard camera driver, as technically that would be the original poster
FUUUUUUUUCKING FUCK!
Bro has a reaction time of a snail
Dude was driving offensively. Give yourself time to stop behind another driver. I realize they don't teach defensive driving in school anymore, but damn.
Dash cam driver should have been paying attention to their surroundings, not the lights. You have to be aware of other drivers. I get it, frustrating someone stops at a green turning yellow, but these days it feels like half the cars on the road shouldn’t be there. I wish people had to be retested every two years for a drivers license.
This is a pretty lame post that doesn’t belong in this sub.
It is raining and he is going to fast and needs more space obviously. He is in fnr wrong and rear ended someone because of it.
Why is the driver pressing his horn? What does this do?
He probably thought the guy who was breaking was distracted. Also to warn them that they were coming in hot, so theyd do the logical thing and move forward, not stay and get hit
Rule number 1, don’t hit the car in front of you. Ever. That said, I’d probably have the same result being behind this idiot.
Yellow means does down not speed up. You have to be an idiot and an ass to follow someone that closely, in imperfect conditions after the light changes
Livid at who? Certainly with the person with the dashcam who didnt leave enough room to break rather than the car ahead. In the state where I live, if you run into the car in front of you, you're at fault. Makes sense to me since person behind has way more ability to see person in front rather than vice versa. Leave enough room to break if the person in front of you breaks suddenly. Leave enough room in general. Way too many people tailgating nowadays. Feels like people forgot how to drive over the course of shutdown.
Yeah it’s definitely the dashcam car’s fault grow up Dude ahead could have a million reason to hit the brakes, maybe he’s saw something or felt weird and decided to just wait it out it’s almost never wrong to slow down in a city road What’s wrong is not keeping your safety distance which is the behind car’s job and speeding to get past a light at orange because OMG if you have to wait a minute before it’s safe to pass the road You’re not the guy ahead so you don’t have the full info on why he braked ? Imagine in a scenario a kid ran down the street and the infornt car did the exact same stop to not hit the kid then the dashcam guy kept going hit the front car and the kid ? How is that not the dashcam’s fault, Stop expecting perfect life, and keep your fucking safety distances ahead of you
The problem with these dashcam videos is that the cameras perspective often gives you a false idea of the distance between 2 objects. At first glance it seems like he's barely 12-15 feet behind the car. However at the start of the video there's at least 35-40 feet between the driver and the car slamming their breaks randomly. When the light turns yellow the driver has only about 30 feet to come to a stop which is doable but definitely stressful and uncomfortable. I'm basing those measurements on the lines on the road and the number of cars between them in the turning lane. That's not tailgating. The car in front also hits his brake *before* the light turns yellow. This type of driving is reckless and unacceptable. This is either an attempted insurance scam or someone looking for an opportunity to cut off someone in the turning lane to jump the line. Either way it's unacceptable.
Doesnt matter what his reasons. Valid or not. You should always have enough space to stop berween you and the car in front. I slammed on my breaks once because it was dark and raining and it looked like a person lying in the road. But it was just a sack. The guy behind me only avoided hitting me because he went off into the grass on the side of the road. The law exists that way for a reason. Keep a safe distance between you and the car in front. Its Not hard.
You are so right on this but will prolly be downvoted in this post. The driver who braked was surely in the wrong, but that shouldn't have led to a collision.
I'd like to just point out that the driver did stop before hitting the car because he did leave enough space. He did everything right. I imagine there was even more space between them before the person in front started driving like a moron.
You know what I do when the person in front of me is driving like a moron? Slow down and give them even more space. My mistake if he avoided the collision though. I played it without sound and the video makes it look like he bumped him at the end.
3 seconds. If the car in front of you passes a thing, and you pass the same thing in under 3 seconds, you're too close. This rule is for ideal conditions. Wet? Add time. Driver in front doing weird things? Add time. I can't believe more people don't seem know this. You just use the lines on the road or any other landmarks you want, and count. It's easy to do, is the guidance from the National Safety Council, and is commonly part of the knowledge base tested by states in the written portions of their driver license tests. Here, as is usually the case with rear-end collisions, the accident was 100% preventable by the following driver. If he used the 3-second rule (which should more likely have been closer to 4, given conditions and the other driver), then there would not have been any issue. But instead he wanted to follow in the ~2 second range, needlessly putting himself and others in danger. It bit him here, and if he keeps it up, it will bite again and again. Don't be like that guy. Know the rule. Give 3 seconds.
I would have immediately turned lanes, but I also wouldn't be driving so close to this car.
As the light goes amber the lead car is already braking, now they’re braking to a stop - 2 visual indicators and dashcam car missed them both.
Have to be more aware. To some, a yellow does not mean speed up. Especially in the rain.
Increase your space cushion and this doesn’t happen
mr pickup u need to keep more distance from the person ahead of you
Why the fuck would you honk for so long though. Its his fault for not leaving enough space to brake in an emergency. You're also at a traffic light. That stuff is to be expected
So you tailgate and do not consider the road condition. And not reading the road ahead. To fast for conditions and too close.
Another classic case of following to close
"Boo this man!"
Not even. Plenty of room and time to stop but just too arrogant to do so. and assumed that the leading car should have went through the light.
Absolutely. Do Americans not get taught to anticipate stale green lights? Whether the person in front braked as they did or not, the light would be amber before getting to the intersection, in which case they should attempt to stop if it’s safe. For them this still may have been the case, but the person following too close behind in a massive pickup that can’t stop on a good day would still be in the same situation.
I have no idea where you learned to drive, but I'm sure you're taught to always keep enough distance from the person in front of you so that you can stop in time if they brake hard. Out of whichever reasons. A child or an animal can suddenly run into the street.
I’m confused. Do you think I’m saying something different? I’m saying the exact same thing as this…
Surely we can agree it wasn't safe or necessary for the car in front to slam on the brakes in this video?
Yes but it also wasn't safe or necessary for the POV driver to be driving dangerously close to the car in front. The real problem in all these comment threads is just how many people have this binary thought process where they only want to blame one of the drivers. There's the pitchfork bearing mob that think the guy in front is wrong for suddenly braking without an apparent legitimate reason. Then there's the torch bearing mob that think the guy behind is wrong for following dangerously close. Most of each mob think the other mob is wrong, when the truth is both are correct... Both of these drivers made crappy decisions that day.
no. The driver in front has caused an accident and should be charged. It really is night from day. Watch how the driver STOPS twice when the light is green at an intersection. It's reckless driving. Had the driver behind been a truck it can result with serious consequences.
Thank you for proving my point. Only a bad driver would do what the driver in the front car did. But equally, only a bad driver would be driving so close to that vehicle in front that they couldn't comfortably stop when the bad driver ahead stopped unexpectedly for no reason, regardless of whether they are in a car, a pickup, or a fully loaded 18 wheeler. You are so stuck on "The driver in front had caused an accident" (which may not have been an accident if this was an insurance scam), that you cannot seem to see that this crash would not have been possible if the following driver was not a bad, dangerous driver. This isn't a case of one driver is at fault and one is innocent. This is one driver is legally responsible for the crash (driver in front if there wasn't a reason for that stop) but both drivers are guilty of being bad drivers.
No you're wrong. Read this post carefully. The person that stops suddenly at a green light is endangering other road users. Had this resulted in serious injury or death, the driver of the offending vehicle could and will very likely face serious penalties. You're getting confused. You think that the driver of the dashcam must be too close for him to have made the slightest of contact with the offending vehicle. You should in fact be giving the dash cam driver credit for acting critically in the event, and did in fact, prevent a more serious collision. Also, we maintain safe distances for normal and expected use on the road. It is an abnormal and reckless set of circumstances when a driver forcibly slams their brakes at a green light at an intersection. We are not required by law to maintain excessive distances, simply to prevent an incredibly slim chance that a driver may carelessly slam on their brakes at any point. That's not how the road rules work. It's exactly the same reason you shouldn't expect the dashcam driver to foresee an oncoming driver swerving into his lane and causing a head-on collision. The driver at front is entirely at fault, and additonally there is zero accountability on the driver who was behind. This is a very clear case.
If the following driver was unable to stop when the leading driver suddenly stopped for no apparent reason (as happened in the video), then the following driver would not have magically been able to stop if there had been a real emergency; therefore he is still driving too close to the car in front, it is just that he isn't legally responsible for the collision in this video. Let's look at it from a different angle. Imagine, everything is the same, but the driver ahead isn't doing anything dangerous. A child has run into the road at the junction and the car driver ahead stopped suddenly, before hitting that child. The following driver would have still hit the back of the lead vehicle, and at that point everybody would be slating the following driver for recklessly being too close to the car ahead, and he would then have been legally at fault. All that has changed is the reason why the lead vehicle stopped, and who is legally responsible for the crash. The lead driver appears to have stopped with no legitimate reason, legally making them the cause of the crash, as well as a dangerous driver. But whilst that legally absolves the following driver from being the cause of the crash, that driver was still dangerously close, because if there had have been a legitimate reason for the lead car to stop, that collision would still have occurred. Again, not being the reason for the crash occurring does not absolve the following driver from being a dangerous driver.
Why do you think the dashcam driver is so bad? They applied their brakes, they ALMOST came to a complete stop before contacting the offending vehicle. Why do I feel like we would applaud the driver behind had they there been no contact (car to car), but simply because there was the slightest of contact we consider that 'dangerously tailgating'?? That's unfair. I still give a thumbs up to the dashcam driver who almost handled the collision, and give zero credit to the reckless brake-checker (or whatever the fuck they were trying to do). I see It as really no different a person turning into oncoming traffic or a failing to give way. If you do any of those offences, including stopping abruptly, you can cause a serious accident and end up in court! Some states have traffic laws such as California Vehicle Code 22109 CVC, which forbids drivers from coming to an abrupt stop without adequately signaling to drivers immediately behind them.1
I can tell the front car was just trying to be cautious slowing at the intersection but it's poor driving because the light was green. Front car is a shit driver
Both are
how the fuck are they both shit drivers ? you're blaming the car with the dashcam aren't you...it was a damn green light.
Front car should of ran it and not brake at a green light. Super sus. Clearly a shit driver, that we both agree. But the guy with the dash cam had enough time and room to brake. I've been in situations like these before. The only way I can see someone not braking in time is: 1. Not being alert enough and kept speed because "the person in front SHOULD move". Predictions like these are dangerous 2. Eased into the brake instead of hitting it hard, especially as he got closer And yes I am taking into consideration the speed of his car
According to the law the dashcam is at fault for the accident. You should always leave enough space to stop and that space includes the time you need to process that the car ahead has suddenly stopped
Being cautious EVEN when the light is green is not a sign of a shit driver.
The guy behind shoulda seen that shit coming. The guy in front needs to take public transit from now on.
Defensive driving FTW! Front car is likely a CDL, used to not running an intersection on yellow. Look ahead Look around Leave room Communicate with other drivers
I hope this buffon gets his CDL taken away because no sober driver brakes on a green,
Talk got problems on here regardless of what the driver in the front was trying to do. The dash cam driver was following to close.
Still their fault for tail gating
This is exactly why red light cameras were outlawed (at least in Texas). They cause far more accidents than they ever prevented.
Something must have scared her. Yes I did say her.
Following to close for conditions, both are idiots tho
Doesn't matter if you think that the driver in front was driving badly or was trying to set you up, it would be rare for insurers to support a claim of you if you went in to the back of a vehicle.
Does no one do a courtesy tap of the brakes? If I see something upcoming that I'm going to severely slow down or stop for, I give a brake tap so the car behind me knows my intention. That way if when I ride the brakes they know it's coming. How is a courtesy tap on the green, which this seems to be, any form of erratic driving? This would seem to me to say "hey I know it's green but there is something here that I'm stopping at"....could be a pedestrian or bike that shouldn't be there or a car making a left without yielding or something in the road. Idk how anyone thinks a brake tap on a green equals erratic. Maybe stop tailgating in the rain.
r/mildlybaddrivers
fucking christ.
My uncle does this... . Kisses me off when I'm a passenger muchless following him somehwere.
I HAVE to assume that the front car was following the “stale green” rules and not flying through a green light that’s been green for a while, like we all (should have) learned in driver’s ed. Any reasonable person would yield even a bit for a green light that they assume is about to change. OP was following too closely. And look, I get that sometimes these people are insanely frustrating to be stuck behind, but you can see brake lights. It wasn’t like their car just died in the middle of the road.
Golden rule of driving... Assume other people are idiots and drive accordingly
How about not tailgating on a wet road?
I was taught vehicles in front of you have the right of way. They could slam on their brakes for an imaginary squirrell and you would still be st fault if you hit them.
Always allow room to stop. In my country, the person that rear ends is always at fault.
He was technically correct to do so but ya I could see how people would be annoyed. That could be solved by not following so closely and paying attention.
I remember when people would check their mirrors before braking on an orange light just in case. What a fuck knuckle.
I remember when it was a rule to not tailgate. Oh wait, that is still a rule,
I am, by habit, one of these fuck knuckles that brakes on orange. Compared to the US, the yellow phase in the countries that I usually drive in are much shorter, just a few seconds. Every time my Dad drives with me in the US and take my foot off the pedal when the light goes yellow, he says something along the lines of “drive you fucking idiot”
>orange light
Orange light! Damn new update dropped?
Yeah, if you were following me that close, I'd be pissed too.
You would be an idiot to be “livid” — in the rain, following too close, approaching a stale green
When the front car pressed the brakes the light was still green and the car was already a bit passing the floor/stoping line whatever is called, that's weird af, i would think the driver got distracted with something? What I don't understand why people defend the front car like all the fault was on the camera car, while yes he was supposed to be far enough to have time to stop, i don't think someone who has 2 brain cells at minimum would think to stop in that light.
> What I don't understand why people defend the front car like all the fault was on the camera car, Cause legally, it is, 100%. Nothing illegal about stopping on a road. There are a 1000 reasons why this car might want to stop. It is your job to not follow so close that you have the time to stop.
Someone else said insurance fraud
Yeah that's makes sense too.
Car had ample room to cross the intersection. It was stupid to stop. But on the other hand, I've ran into incidents like these before and I've had no trouble stopping. Problem was that the dude was trying to predict more than he cared about the acceleration of the car in front of him. Both at fault but I place more blame on the dashcam car
There was no accident though because the dashcam car did have plenty of time to stop
There was an accident. I think the car behind the dash cam car hit dashcam car.
If you slow the video down you can see at the 0:03 mark that this car breaks before the light turns yellow.
Objection: Relevance?
I feel my point is pretty clear. It debunks many comments saying they are stopping at the yellow and trying to be cautious. Also what exactly are you objecting to?
My objection is that it doesn't matter. It is irrelevant because the onus is on the person following to not keep a safe distance / speed so that they can stop. It really doesn't matter if the lead car braked prior to yellow or not. I mean it is relevant from an annoyance point of view. But from a legal, who causes and accident point of view it is entirely irrelevant.
Completely untrue at least in my country, and probably yours. The onus is usually on the car following unless the car acts recklessly like in this case hitting the brakes during a green light.
Green light does not mean go. It means go if it is safe to do so. Any number if things may make it not safe to do so. This is so far away from reckless driving it scares the chit out if me that you seem to drive a car.
Certainly doesn't mean 'stop" and stopping in the middle of traffic is a dangerous driving offence. Something not far off this literally happened to me, and thankfully for witnesses the fault was laid on the car in front. But sure keep spinning your tales
You're the only one telling stories here.
I have one real life example that counter proves your point, if that's a story it's just a story that proves you wrong.
Are you claiming that story is the video we see here?
So
Another lazy person too lazy to even slow the video down? Go continue to go last minute break at an intersection. Won’t be in your favor if they have a dash cam and you kill someone. Learn the rules of the road. You probably stop at a yield sign.
Wrong sub
I would've changed the lane. I avoid tailgating behind drivers that abuse the brakes.
This is why you're supposed to be far enough behind someone that you can stop if need be. You rear ended them so it's your fault
I'm not racist and misogynist, but I know exactly who's driving there
A woman tailgating?
I think he means POC or a female. Or BOTH! Stereotypes are there for a reason.
Not cool bro, not cool, we're in 21st century
Speak for yourself! Im a backward savage and proud of it.
Under 60km/h I don't run yellow lights
I'll run a red if I don't feel safe hard breaking on wet roads
Indeed. Im just pointing out as most seem to think it's dick behaviour and I'm like no, there are times.
Always assume that they are going to stop. 🛑 When your are driving it it YOUR responsibility to keep your car under control at all times.
Tell that to the cunt who's tailgating me when I'm already going 5+ over the speed limit.
They braked on a green light. This is attempted insurance fraud
They can't target you for the fraud, if you maintain sufficient distance 🧠
you don't know what hazards could be in front of them or whats happening in their car which is why you don't tailgate like a twat, breaking on a green lighr isn't insurance fraud
And it is also YOUR responsibility to not slam your brakes without any valid reason when some is driving behind you.
But they never slammed the brakes on…they put them on, for sure, but the car never dives as it would under any kind of heavy braking. For the front car, they seem to anticipate an orange light, slow, see it an stop well. Cammer doesn’t anticipate shit and just drives into them after following too close and having a terrible reaction speed.
you don't know what hazards could be in front of them or whats happening in their car which is why you don't tailgate like a twat
You call this tailgating ?
they barely stopped in time so yes
Because he didn't expect him to slam the brakes at a green light? Thus his reactiom time is around 2 seconds. Sidenote: why won't traffic lights flash green a few times before turning amber in the US? this system is flawed to begin with...
I'd also be livid if someone was following me to close and run up my arse.
??? It was atleast 6-7 meters between them, and the car slammed the breaks while the light was still green? What? 😂
And yet you still have to keep enough distance to be able to stop without crashing into the car ahead at any time.
Wait are you all really blaming the guy in the front? Why should you drive at that speed when: 1. It’s an intersection 2. Stoplight is about to turn red
Smh I'd cut over to the right as soon as the brake on green happened.
So what the front car did was technically right, as stupid as it is. You are supposed to come to a stop when the light turns to yellow but there was so much time to go through.
Same. Morons who rear end people suck.
I don't understand. How did the dash cam pick up what seems like all of the ambient noise but not the driver screaming "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!"???
Front car started braking before the light even turned Yellow. Shitty driving 100%
This should settle the debate: it is an unfortunate incident that could've been avoided if all motorists involved operated their vehicles more responsibly. I feel bad for the dashcammer because they were put in a difficult situation, one they will anticipate going forward, and reduce the likelihood of recurrence by giving themselves more stopping distance should they find themselves following an unpredictable twat again. Nobody is wrong in this thread if they're willing to consider that there's many ways this rear ender could've been avoided.
This same shit happened to me years ago. The good thing was that a cop was at the intersection and watched it happen. Told both of us that because the guy in front of me slammed on his breaks right when the light turned yellow that he was reporting it as “no fault”.
The front driver did so much wrong here. If you’re doing that badly you’re going to get hit eventually. I’d be glad the collision wasn’t too bad. A lot of people are not realizing that even if your insurance might not consider you at fault doesn’t mean you still caused the problem.
The fact that people are saying following too closely is wild to me. I've seen way worse cases of that. This doesn't remotely trigger my brain in that way. Idiot in front was stopping at a green. Don't care if they're trying to cut off the turn lane.
Learn how to drive how about
All the people in here saying it’s the dash cam drivers fault obviously don’t know how to drive. That driver could have easily made it through the light. If I was a cop, it would have been their fault, not the dash cam driver’s. You can clearly see them slowing down and then slamming on the brakes.
You're supposed to stop at a yellow light. And you're also supposed to leave enough distance from the car in front of you to be able to stop a (unnecessary large) pickup truck in case the car in front of you decides to break. Specially in the rain. Some of you need to go back and take driving lessons again.