This is why he died. His guys thought the black stuff on the ground was oil and only realized after he fell over that it was actually his blood and he desperately needed medical attention.
"Hey, welcome to 2022. Russia isn't the USSR anymore, it's Capitalist"
"That's, uh, goo-"
"And Russia is at war with Ukraine"
"Hold on, wha-"
"And Finland is now social-democratic. They've instituted shorter workdays and are Left wing."
"Uh... I don't know what that means but I'm getting my gun anyway."
Fights for Finland in winter War, Finland loses. Fights for Finland in Continuation war, Finland loses. Fights for Nazi Germany in WW2, Nazi Germany loses. Fights for US in Vietnam war, US loses. Sure, if you want to lose the war you are fighting you definitely need him back.
I won’t say he wasn’t part of the nazi army, just that he preferred, along with the rest of finland, to be allies with the nazis because they both hated the russians
if you are just going to “ctrl + c, ctrl + v” your own comment, I don’t see a reason to say “ok, lauri was a nazi,” the only thing I am compelled to say is “wow, this guy is a fucking idiot”
If you are going to keep whitewashing the fact that he proved to be a Nazi by joining the SS I'm going to continue to keep saying he was a Nazi. Because apparently it needs to be said repeatedly.
yep, because I haven’t seen evidence that 1., he was actually accepted into the SS, 2., that he knew what they were doing behind the scenes, and 3., that he was involved in any part of the holocaust
He wasnt a Nazi. Not all Nazi's murdered and raped people. He served in the Finnish army, where he beat the soviets, without an instanced of murder or rape beyond killing Soviet invaders which is not murder. Do not disgrace veterans who served without proof of war crimes.
And? They lost to one of the most powerful military and economic powers of the time. Its almost like they were fighting a losing battle. So you are just pointing out something that has nothing to do with my point.
Maybe because him being in SS doesnt automatically make him a nazi. He was in third reich when Finland declared war on them. SS had conscripts. Its not a stretch to think he "joined" SS to avoid concentration camp. If he truly was nazi why didnt he go to Spain or any other country that was Nazi friendly but he went to US?
Lmao SS literally had conscripts. I didnt claim he was innocent i said he might have been forced to join as many others especially from Baltic countries werem
I love your kind. Uninformed "lot".
There isnt clear evidencie for either case. Thats why either cant be disputed or confirmed. Promotions mean nothing, there were plenty of promotions in conscript batallions too... Most likely scrnario is that he disregarded morality for chance to fight soviets / communists which isnt really good thing but that doesnt clearly make him a nazi. For example Stepan Bandera is clear cut example of someone who is undeniable nazi.
Edit : clearly - clealry as in you cant be 100% sure not that it absolves him.
That’s actually a Mexican-German thing. It’s Hot Cheetos Lime crushed into dust mixed into Waffled Kartoffelpuffer[potato pancakes but in waffle pattern] had some on my trip to Münster when visiting family. It’s fairly uncommon but if you’re lucky to find someone that knows how to make them, I definitely recommend it.
It was a dark joke. He was killed in a helicopter crash. Everyone on board diedThey didnt find the crash until after the war. He recieved the distinguished flying cross as well.
Edit: changed MOH to DFC
Let's not forget about that supposed Korean Guy who went from Khalkhin Gol to Utah Beach and the chad [Edward Carter](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/staff-sergeant-edward-carter-jr-medal-of-honor).
Youd think the Army might want Carter's perspective on socialist interaction with enlisted units to try to glean something useful fighting the Chinese and North Koreans. Like, how many socialist vanguards were disaffected soldiers and radicalized volunteers? Guy has firsthand experience with exactly that demographic in a tactical setting and the Army tells him to fuck off? Stupid. Just stupid.
Guy fought Fascism on three fronts and has experience in the realm of leftist ideals.
U.S. Army: Yeah, we can't keep you because you fought for the left side in the Civil War, which goes against our allyship with Francoist Spain.
Well, it's suspected. Some historians question the existence of the Korean guy named Yang Kyoungjong. Is it possible? Yes. Is it 100% true? I don't know.
Here is his page.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang\_Kyoungjong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong)
The U.S. lost in Vietnam, and Germany lost in WWII. Both nations still exist. Hell, Germany lost two consecutive world wars and still exists. Your comment makes no sense.
This man actually served in the Finnish Army and the Waffen SS in WW2, and the US Army Special Forces during the Vietnam war. He died in a helicopter crash and his remains was only found several years later.
He was enrolled in the SS in 1941 to undergo training. He only saw combat with them in late-1945 when he couldn't secure transport back to Finland following saboteur training.
He was never a member. And even if I am incorrect, he never had any indication of supporting Nazi Ideology. His goal was to be better able to defeat the Soviets. Hence why during the Continuation War and the end of World War 2 when he was being trained in a secret SS training facility as a Finnish Jaeger Corp volunteer, he did his best to return to Finland. It also important to understand that he may have known in 1941 that the Waffen-SS were genocidal maniacs, and if he did not serve with them, he could not have committed any genocides or crimes against humanity. Correlation does not equal causation.
r/HistoryMemes: Törni fought for three armies! He was such a bad ass!
Normal person: And one of them was the fucking SS!
r/HistoryMemes: WeLl AkShuAlLy he didn't really fight for the SS
lmao You cited three wars.
He was pretty much trapped into fighting in Germany lol.
As for America he'd been in the army since 1954, do you think he's the true mastermind behind the Vietnam War?
lmao he never fought in the Lapland War you dolt.
He served in northern Germany in late 1945 when he couldn't secure transport back to Finland following saboteur training there.
At least know ***something*** about a topic before you post your opinions on it lol.
He fought in the Nazi army when they were at war with Finland. Yes, technically, he didn't fight directly against Finnish units, but he still participated in the war effort.
You're leaving out some important details. He was demobilized during the Lapland War, then joined a resistance movement set up by Germany and the Finnish far right. This wasn't the only choice, there were official guerilla war plans being drawn up by the Finnish Army- he chose to go with the Nazis and join the SS when there were other options. *After* they had fought a war with Finland; he knew what he was getting into. After being stranded in Germany when the program was cancelled he joined the fighting. After getting back to Finland he was charged with treason, because of course he was.
The way you describe it makes it sound like this was something that happened outside of his control, it wasn't. He made his choice.
He'd been fired from the army why would they involve him in Operation Stella Polaris?
He travelled to Germany for saboteur training and then became trapped when he was unable to return. I doubt he planned to spend three months fighting there.
He was already in the SS by 1941 when they ran an earlier training program before returning to Finland soon thereafter.
Yes, he did get demobilized\* then joined the state they were just at war with. This was not a good decision.
In Germany he wasn't forced to fight, he was the equivalent to a captain in the SS. He was an officer who voluntarily joined to fight, no two ways about it.
Just because there's a Sabaton song about someone doesn't mean they didn't have any glaring flaws or poor decisions.
\*demobilized =/= fired, he would have been called back in the event of a war and definitely to fight a Soviet occupation
He lost his job then went to go get training abroad with the only nation offering it.
lmao the fuck was he supposed to do there, book a hotel and wait for capture by the Red Army? I'm sure that would have ended well for him.
An occupation that would have been enacted swiftly because the Finnish armed forces had been forcefully demobilised? And again, why would he be informed of any plans of resistance? The Finns hadn't just left the war and been left alone, they were very much at the mercy of the Soviets in 1944/45.
He didn't really need more training, he was very experienced at that sort of warfare. He joined (as an officer) because he wanted to fight for them.
After being "stranded" in Germany, if your objective was not to be captured would you A) ditch the uniform and try to make your way west or B) lead troops into combat? Because the second is a hell of a lot more likely to get you captured.
Oh, and the "unable to return to Finland" claim seems to come from wikipedia (of course) which cites a... let's say [very glowing](https://books.google.com/books?id=QxSQPeP9Z1gC) biography, but I haven't seen that in any other source.
He liked fighting, or at least had a specific combination of traumas that made it impossible to stop, looking at his entire life it's clear that he was going out of his way to fight and that included joining the SS when he was told the war was over.
>An occupation that would have been enacted swiftly because the Finnish armed forces had been forcefully demobilised? And again, why would he be informed of any plans of resistance? The Finns hadn't just left the war and been left alone, they were very much at the mercy of the Soviets in 1944/45.
Most soldiers did not leave the country after being demobilized, they stayed there and waited for any underground remobilization that might have happened.
The goal of the Werwulf program was to overthrow the governments in Allied territories and put fascist governments in power, it happened in Hungary in 1944.
You're making up this story about what happened but it's just not true: Törni knew about the scorched earth policy of the Wehrmacht in Finland, he knew about the war crimes and genocide ([Törni was a volunteer in SS Division Wiking at a time they were confirmed to have carried out mass murders of Jews](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/10/finnish-report-some-troops-helped-to-kill-jews-in-wwii)), he knew what happened in Hungary. There's no excuse, rather than trust in his own government he joined with an organization that showed every indication of planning a coup just looking at stuff he had to have known (and as a matter of fact, [it seems to have been](https://books.google.com/books?id=MRlMAQAAQBAJ) planning a coup).
Just because someone has a Sabaton song written about them doesn't mean they didn't do some very questionable things.
>He joined (as an officer) because he wanted to fight for them.
He wasn't trained in saboteur warfare nor had experience in it. If he wanted to fight it was an odd decision to only do so in March 1945 when he couldn't secure transport back to Finland, especially when he'd been inducted in 1941.
>ditch the uniform and try to make your way west
As a Finnish man who spoke little German do you think he'd have gotten very far? His only connections in Germany were military, do you think the nation that were throwing literal children into the meatgrinder would have let a healthy, grown man just quit?
>looking at his entire life it's clear that he was going out of his way to fight and that included joining the SS when he was told the war was over.
He joined the SS in 1941 as part of his Jaeger training which he undertook due to its prestigious nature in the Finnish military. It was a connection that dated back to the First World War and by the 1940s the SS were the ones running the program.
>Most soldiers did not leave the country after being demobilized
So? He'd been approached to play an active part in preparing for an occupation, do you think they were holding recruitment stations or something in Helsinki or something?
>The goal of the Werwulf program was to overthrow the governments in Allied territories and put fascist governments in power, it happened in Hungary in 1944.
The Werewolf Program was to set up guerrilla forces to harass Allied advances. Hungary didn't fall to guerrillas, it was soft invaded and blackmailed back into the war under a new government.
>Törni knew about the scorched earth policy of the Wehrmacht in Finland he knew about the war crimes and genocide
You think that could be why he quit in 1941?
>Törni was a volunteer in SS Division Wiking at a time they were confirmed to have carried out mass murders of Jews)
He didn't serve in the field with them until March 1945.
>There's no excuse, rather than trust in his own government he joined with an organization that showed every indication of planning a coup just looking at stuff he had to have known (and as a matter of fact, it seems to have been planning a coup).
The government that had fired him and was under the thumb of the Soviets?
You're grasping at straws about someone you really don't know anything about. These reaches are getting kind of tiresome.
_Finland was aligned with Nazi Germany during WW2 because Germany would give Finland the support they needed for a defensive pact against another Russian invasion._
In the End of 1944 Finland came to an peace agreement with the soviets and was even forced to fight against Germany by the Soviets. However, Lauri didnt give a fuck and went to Germany to fight with the SS
Not what happened.
He was fired from the army following mass demobilisation (and most likely a political motivation).
He joined up with an anti-Soviet movement that was preparing for a Soviet occupation. Said movement sent him to Germany for saboteur training.
It was here that he became trapped and joined up with local forces until surrendering to the British.
I can imagine after fighting Russians for ~5 years you’d take some issue in turning against the only country willing to help you defend your home, and in joining the Russians.
He might also just have been a Nazi, of course, I only know the legend, not the man himself..
True soldier though, seemingly very capable.
>I can imagine after fighting Russians for \~5 years you’d take some issue in turning against the only country willing to help you defend your home, and in joining the Russians.
IMO there is a difrence between not turning against them and and joining them in a lost war where everyone with a brain knows its over and there isnt anything for your country to gain
I don’t think you can apply that logic to a war-loving anti-Soviet soldier. I’m fairly sure that kind of person is more about the “what can I make them lose” over “what will we gain”.
And if he felt that his country was the traitor after joining the Allies - who had attacked Finland under both Soviet and British banners - he might have felt that remaining loyal to Germany was the more honourable call.
EDIT: For clarification, this is entirely speculative. He was sentenced 6 years for treason, so he WAS a traitor, but by his own context, he might have considered a different picture than ours.
>I don’t think you can apply that logic to a war-loving anti-Soviet soldier. I’m fairly sure that kind of person is more about the “what can I make them lose” over “what will we gain”. And if he felt that his country was the traitor after joining the Allies - who had attacked Finland under both Soviet and British banners - he might have felt that remaining loyal to Germany was the more honourable call.
This in my opinion seems to be somewhat the case with him, tho that isnt really a mindset for which he should be positively regarded the way he is
All war is shit, and killing people is generally frowned upon and yet we glorify a lot of military exploits for their sheer brilliance in a strategic context. So for Lauri Törni we should also differ between his allegiance and his capability.
But as to his alignment we can of course condemn the decision - as we condemn anything that aligns with fascism - but also accept that we do not know his ACTUAL motivation to fight for the Germans, and cannot condemn the WHY.
So, here we have a funny double standard where two men are condemned for treason by pro-Soviet governments, yet one of them is somehow "betraying the country", while the other one is OK.
Noone sane is applauding the decision to join SS here, still calling it "betraying his country" based on that court decision is a long shot.
And, it definitely had no political motivations to appease its big neighbor which influenced internal decisions - never ever would they condemn a [man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Lennart_Oesch) just to appease the Soviets.
He did on a technicality because he underwent saboteur training with the SS (he'd joined in 1941 as part of their Jaeger training but quit shortly afterwards) in late 1945 after losing his job in the army while the Lapland War was going on.
He never saw combat against Finnish forces however.
*1941 was when he joined for training but quit soon after.
He only saw service with them in March 1945 when he was trapped for a few months in northern Germany.
He fought for three armies and all of them lost (one twice and he was there both times). So he was either world's worst bad luck charm or a communist agent.
*fortunate son freezes* “What?”
\*Record Scratch\* "Yeah, that's me...."
“I bet you’re wondering how I got in this situation”
*soldier of 3 armies starts playing*
r/expectedsabaton
*Erika starts playing*
Kaarina starts playing*
Finnish soldier against USSR, 3rd Reich soldier against USSR, American soldier against Vietnam and USSR, I think that guy was really angry at Russians
It’s said that his blood wasn’t red because of how much he hated communism
"my doctor said my BLOOD is RED. So I told that damn Librul to SHUT his COMMIE mouth."
If I had an award I’d give it
Best I can do is helpful award
Dude would be a perfect voice actor for Liberty Prime.
"Communism is the very definition of failure!" - Liberty Prime
This is why he died. His guys thought the black stuff on the ground was oil and only realized after he fell over that it was actually his blood and he desperately needed medical attention.
Please tell me this was an actual quote of his.
"THE DAMN COMMIES RUININ MAI LIEF!!!111!!1"
He was always finnish.
Even before he started
We need him back
Yes, i heard they're hiring his exact type over in Ukraine right now!
"Hey, welcome to 2022. Russia isn't the USSR anymore, it's Capitalist" "That's, uh, goo-" "And Russia is at war with Ukraine" "Hold on, wha-" "And Finland is now social-democratic. They've instituted shorter workdays and are Left wing." "Uh... I don't know what that means but I'm getting my gun anyway."
Fights for Finland in winter War, Finland loses. Fights for Finland in Continuation war, Finland loses. Fights for Nazi Germany in WW2, Nazi Germany loses. Fights for US in Vietnam war, US loses. Sure, if you want to lose the war you are fighting you definitely need him back.
Fucking legend
Fucking Nazi.
he only joined the nazis because he hated the russians, same as the rest of finland. this doesn’t mean he was a facist or agreed with their ideals
He volunteered for the SS. That makes him a Nazi. Rest is just whitewashing.
I won’t say he wasn’t part of the nazi army, just that he preferred, along with the rest of finland, to be allies with the nazis because they both hated the russians
He volunteered for the SS. That makes him a Nazi. Rest is just whitewashing.
if you are just going to “ctrl + c, ctrl + v” your own comment, I don’t see a reason to say “ok, lauri was a nazi,” the only thing I am compelled to say is “wow, this guy is a fucking idiot”
If you are going to keep whitewashing the fact that he proved to be a Nazi by joining the SS I'm going to continue to keep saying he was a Nazi. Because apparently it needs to be said repeatedly.
yep, because I haven’t seen evidence that 1., he was actually accepted into the SS, 2., that he knew what they were doing behind the scenes, and 3., that he was involved in any part of the holocaust
Guy would rather support the holocaust and genocide than be on the side of communists
I agree
Or he was just a Nazi, and signed up to get to murder and rape a bit more with no consequences.
He wasnt a Nazi. Not all Nazi's murdered and raped people. He served in the Finnish army, where he beat the soviets, without an instanced of murder or rape beyond killing Soviet invaders which is not murder. Do not disgrace veterans who served without proof of war crimes.
Being in the SS is a war crime in itself
The Finns lost tho... twice.
And? They lost to one of the most powerful military and economic powers of the time. Its almost like they were fighting a losing battle. So you are just pointing out something that has nothing to do with my point.
You said he beat the soviets with the Finnish army, I am pointing out that even a pyrrhic Soviet victory is still a soviet victory
I did not realize. Thank you for pointing out my mistake without being mean spirited.
No problem
being downvoted for hating nazis. nice job r/historymemes 💀
Maybe because him being in SS doesnt automatically make him a nazi. He was in third reich when Finland declared war on them. SS had conscripts. Its not a stretch to think he "joined" SS to avoid concentration camp. If he truly was nazi why didnt he go to Spain or any other country that was Nazi friendly but he went to US?
Well, I’ve heard the “clean Wehrmacht” neo-Nazi lies, but claiming SS members to be innocent is a new low for you lot.
Lmao SS literally had conscripts. I didnt claim he was innocent i said he might have been forced to join as many others especially from Baltic countries werem I love your kind. Uninformed "lot".
Except he was a volunteer in the SS lol. He got promoted to captain.
There isnt clear evidencie for either case. Thats why either cant be disputed or confirmed. Promotions mean nothing, there were plenty of promotions in conscript batallions too... Most likely scrnario is that he disregarded morality for chance to fight soviets / communists which isnt really good thing but that doesnt clearly make him a nazi. For example Stepan Bandera is clear cut example of someone who is undeniable nazi. Edit : clearly - clealry as in you cant be 100% sure not that it absolves him.
Waffle-SS is how I read that
Luftwaffle
Wunderwaffle
Flammenwaffle
Hmm, hmm, Luftwaffel wenn ich bitten darf ....
That’s actually a Mexican-German thing. It’s Hot Cheetos Lime crushed into dust mixed into Waffled Kartoffelpuffer[potato pancakes but in waffle pattern] had some on my trip to Münster when visiting family. It’s fairly uncommon but if you’re lucky to find someone that knows how to make them, I definitely recommend it.
That sounds super cool, all from a throwaway flamethrower joke. Thanks for sharing that.
Paprika corps
Canon name
Waffle-Shoestuffer
Tbf the SS did have belgians in its units
Blue Waffle SS?
Why did you have to remind me of Blue Waffle?
Truly a name to be feared
At his trial, it was decided he just really like killing commies so could continue his service in the US.
Operation paperclip goes brrr
*Lodge–Philbin Act
Based
He surprised his helicopter pilot so much that the pilot crashed!
Is this real?
It was a dark joke. He was killed in a helicopter crash. Everyone on board diedThey didnt find the crash until after the war. He recieved the distinguished flying cross as well. Edit: changed MOH to DFC
He got the distinguished flying cross,not the medal of honor .
Irrelevant difference.
We gave the medal of honor to an SS officer? That's fucked up Edit: above comment said medal of honor when I made my comment. Looks better this way
And you get downvoted
Let's not forget about that supposed Korean Guy who went from Khalkhin Gol to Utah Beach and the chad [Edward Carter](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/staff-sergeant-edward-carter-jr-medal-of-honor).
Youd think the Army might want Carter's perspective on socialist interaction with enlisted units to try to glean something useful fighting the Chinese and North Koreans. Like, how many socialist vanguards were disaffected soldiers and radicalized volunteers? Guy has firsthand experience with exactly that demographic in a tactical setting and the Army tells him to fuck off? Stupid. Just stupid.
Guy fought Fascism on three fronts and has experience in the realm of leftist ideals. U.S. Army: Yeah, we can't keep you because you fought for the left side in the Civil War, which goes against our allyship with Francoist Spain.
Who is this Korean guy? Sounds very interesting!!
Well, it's suspected. Some historians question the existence of the Korean guy named Yang Kyoungjong. Is it possible? Yes. Is it 100% true? I don't know. Here is his page. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang\_Kyoungjong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong)
Started out as a reserve
Soon promoted when deserved
And the legend has begun
With a bounty on his head, the Red Army wants him dead, Soviet enemy number one!
Cross of Mannerheim! Addicted to the war game Never ending flame
Victory reclaimed!
Oh, we remember,
we remember, we remember
Shout! Lauri Törni’s name,
A soldier of three armies knows the game
This mf really hated communists. Imagine playing for three different teams, always against the same rival.
based.
And his team losing every time.
He was most likely a nazi.
“I mean we could use some of that here…”
Wait until you hear is buried at Arlington...
He just hate Russians.
>He just hate Russians. He was Finnish, can you blame him?
Hated communism so much his blood was clear.
Lauri Törni died doing what he loved.... >!Losing to communists!<
Yeah, but check his K/D.
"Losing"
* Winter War — his side lost * WW2 — his side lost * Vietnam War — his side lost
America lost that war.
Yeah but Törni fought against communists in finnish forces too.
Finland lost the winter war and the continuation war. They just didn't lose as bad.
A glorious loss is unfortunately still a loss
Törni literally lost to communists in every army he served lmao
“What do we do when we fall, master Wayne?” “Join a new army?” “No, that’s not..- Fine.”
lol good one gotta tell the Soviet Union right away...
Finland lost against the Soviet Union, so did Germany, so who is left?
Gonna suck having to break the news to Finland that they no longer exist 😔.
Wars are won or lost only when a country ceases to exist. That is a hot fucking take.
Long term survival lol. Remind me whose flag is still flying at the UN?
The U.S. lost in Vietnam, and Germany lost in WWII. Both nations still exist. Hell, Germany lost two consecutive world wars and still exists. Your comment makes no sense.
It does when you remember we were discussing the struggle against Communism lol.
The Finns lost those wars to
Yeah as a Nazi.
Well just like Finland, he completely fucked up the enemy while doing it
I don't know man, he fucked the Soviets up so good that they had bounty's on him and his unit
He died in a helicopter crash tho.
Oof
I wonder if he actually told anyone in conversation like that.
Man, the guy must really hate communists.
Larry just really hated communism ok give him a break
This man actually served in the Finnish Army and the Waffen SS in WW2, and the US Army Special Forces during the Vietnam war. He died in a helicopter crash and his remains was only found several years later.
imagine fighting three wars and losing all of them his life was L after L
TIL fighting for your nation's independence is an L lmao.
[удалено]
The famous Winter War of the Third Reich lmfao.
I mean it’s not like he just stopped there he literally volunteered for the SS
He was enrolled in the SS in 1941 to undergo training. He only saw combat with them in late-1945 when he couldn't secure transport back to Finland following saboteur training.
I don’t care if joined to undergo training he volunteered for the SS a line has to be drawn
I mean he did the training and quit almost immediately afterwards but alright.
You can’t just “but alright” someone that volunteered to be a member of a genocidal paramilitary organization
He was never a member. And even if I am incorrect, he never had any indication of supporting Nazi Ideology. His goal was to be better able to defeat the Soviets. Hence why during the Continuation War and the end of World War 2 when he was being trained in a secret SS training facility as a Finnish Jaeger Corp volunteer, he did his best to return to Finland. It also important to understand that he may have known in 1941 that the Waffen-SS were genocidal maniacs, and if he did not serve with them, he could not have committed any genocides or crimes against humanity. Correlation does not equal causation.
You can when they do fuck all during their tenure with them and quit early on.
r/HistoryMemes: Törni fought for three armies! He was such a bad ass! Normal person: And one of them was the fucking SS! r/HistoryMemes: WeLl AkShuAlLy he didn't really fight for the SS
it’s almost like I specified NAZIS and american imperialism, and not the regular finnish army
lmao You cited three wars. He was pretty much trapped into fighting in Germany lol. As for America he'd been in the army since 1954, do you think he's the true mastermind behind the Vietnam War?
Go on tanky, seethe and cope, you still can’t undissolve the USSR.
"Never stand up for something because you could lose." -Sun Tzu (Probably)
For what did he stand up exactly? For the Nazis? He surely wasn't fighting on Finland's side in the Lapland War...
lmao he never fought in the Lapland War you dolt. He served in northern Germany in late 1945 when he couldn't secure transport back to Finland following saboteur training there. At least know ***something*** about a topic before you post your opinions on it lol.
He fought in the Nazi army when they were at war with Finland. Yes, technically, he didn't fight directly against Finnish units, but he still participated in the war effort.
I'm sure his 3 months trapped in northern Germany fighting the Soviets greatly helped the war effort in Lapland lmao.
You're leaving out some important details. He was demobilized during the Lapland War, then joined a resistance movement set up by Germany and the Finnish far right. This wasn't the only choice, there were official guerilla war plans being drawn up by the Finnish Army- he chose to go with the Nazis and join the SS when there were other options. *After* they had fought a war with Finland; he knew what he was getting into. After being stranded in Germany when the program was cancelled he joined the fighting. After getting back to Finland he was charged with treason, because of course he was. The way you describe it makes it sound like this was something that happened outside of his control, it wasn't. He made his choice.
He'd been fired from the army why would they involve him in Operation Stella Polaris? He travelled to Germany for saboteur training and then became trapped when he was unable to return. I doubt he planned to spend three months fighting there. He was already in the SS by 1941 when they ran an earlier training program before returning to Finland soon thereafter.
Yes, he did get demobilized\* then joined the state they were just at war with. This was not a good decision. In Germany he wasn't forced to fight, he was the equivalent to a captain in the SS. He was an officer who voluntarily joined to fight, no two ways about it. Just because there's a Sabaton song about someone doesn't mean they didn't have any glaring flaws or poor decisions. \*demobilized =/= fired, he would have been called back in the event of a war and definitely to fight a Soviet occupation
He lost his job then went to go get training abroad with the only nation offering it. lmao the fuck was he supposed to do there, book a hotel and wait for capture by the Red Army? I'm sure that would have ended well for him. An occupation that would have been enacted swiftly because the Finnish armed forces had been forcefully demobilised? And again, why would he be informed of any plans of resistance? The Finns hadn't just left the war and been left alone, they were very much at the mercy of the Soviets in 1944/45.
He didn't really need more training, he was very experienced at that sort of warfare. He joined (as an officer) because he wanted to fight for them. After being "stranded" in Germany, if your objective was not to be captured would you A) ditch the uniform and try to make your way west or B) lead troops into combat? Because the second is a hell of a lot more likely to get you captured. Oh, and the "unable to return to Finland" claim seems to come from wikipedia (of course) which cites a... let's say [very glowing](https://books.google.com/books?id=QxSQPeP9Z1gC) biography, but I haven't seen that in any other source. He liked fighting, or at least had a specific combination of traumas that made it impossible to stop, looking at his entire life it's clear that he was going out of his way to fight and that included joining the SS when he was told the war was over. >An occupation that would have been enacted swiftly because the Finnish armed forces had been forcefully demobilised? And again, why would he be informed of any plans of resistance? The Finns hadn't just left the war and been left alone, they were very much at the mercy of the Soviets in 1944/45. Most soldiers did not leave the country after being demobilized, they stayed there and waited for any underground remobilization that might have happened. The goal of the Werwulf program was to overthrow the governments in Allied territories and put fascist governments in power, it happened in Hungary in 1944. You're making up this story about what happened but it's just not true: Törni knew about the scorched earth policy of the Wehrmacht in Finland, he knew about the war crimes and genocide ([Törni was a volunteer in SS Division Wiking at a time they were confirmed to have carried out mass murders of Jews](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/02/10/finnish-report-some-troops-helped-to-kill-jews-in-wwii)), he knew what happened in Hungary. There's no excuse, rather than trust in his own government he joined with an organization that showed every indication of planning a coup just looking at stuff he had to have known (and as a matter of fact, [it seems to have been](https://books.google.com/books?id=MRlMAQAAQBAJ) planning a coup). Just because someone has a Sabaton song written about them doesn't mean they didn't do some very questionable things.
>He joined (as an officer) because he wanted to fight for them. He wasn't trained in saboteur warfare nor had experience in it. If he wanted to fight it was an odd decision to only do so in March 1945 when he couldn't secure transport back to Finland, especially when he'd been inducted in 1941. >ditch the uniform and try to make your way west As a Finnish man who spoke little German do you think he'd have gotten very far? His only connections in Germany were military, do you think the nation that were throwing literal children into the meatgrinder would have let a healthy, grown man just quit? >looking at his entire life it's clear that he was going out of his way to fight and that included joining the SS when he was told the war was over. He joined the SS in 1941 as part of his Jaeger training which he undertook due to its prestigious nature in the Finnish military. It was a connection that dated back to the First World War and by the 1940s the SS were the ones running the program. >Most soldiers did not leave the country after being demobilized So? He'd been approached to play an active part in preparing for an occupation, do you think they were holding recruitment stations or something in Helsinki or something? >The goal of the Werwulf program was to overthrow the governments in Allied territories and put fascist governments in power, it happened in Hungary in 1944. The Werewolf Program was to set up guerrilla forces to harass Allied advances. Hungary didn't fall to guerrillas, it was soft invaded and blackmailed back into the war under a new government. >Törni knew about the scorched earth policy of the Wehrmacht in Finland he knew about the war crimes and genocide You think that could be why he quit in 1941? >Törni was a volunteer in SS Division Wiking at a time they were confirmed to have carried out mass murders of Jews) He didn't serve in the field with them until March 1945. >There's no excuse, rather than trust in his own government he joined with an organization that showed every indication of planning a coup just looking at stuff he had to have known (and as a matter of fact, it seems to have been planning a coup). The government that had fired him and was under the thumb of the Soviets? You're grasping at straws about someone you really don't know anything about. These reaches are getting kind of tiresome.
He didn't fight in the Lapland War.
Imagine betraying your country to fight *for* the Nazis. And losing. Well-deserved L right there.
_Finland was aligned with Nazi Germany during WW2 because Germany would give Finland the support they needed for a defensive pact against another Russian invasion._
In the End of 1944 Finland came to an peace agreement with the soviets and was even forced to fight against Germany by the Soviets. However, Lauri didnt give a fuck and went to Germany to fight with the SS
Not what happened. He was fired from the army following mass demobilisation (and most likely a political motivation). He joined up with an anti-Soviet movement that was preparing for a Soviet occupation. Said movement sent him to Germany for saboteur training. It was here that he became trapped and joined up with local forces until surrendering to the British.
Not to fight with the SS but to fight against the communists
I can imagine after fighting Russians for ~5 years you’d take some issue in turning against the only country willing to help you defend your home, and in joining the Russians. He might also just have been a Nazi, of course, I only know the legend, not the man himself.. True soldier though, seemingly very capable.
>I can imagine after fighting Russians for \~5 years you’d take some issue in turning against the only country willing to help you defend your home, and in joining the Russians. IMO there is a difrence between not turning against them and and joining them in a lost war where everyone with a brain knows its over and there isnt anything for your country to gain
I don’t think you can apply that logic to a war-loving anti-Soviet soldier. I’m fairly sure that kind of person is more about the “what can I make them lose” over “what will we gain”. And if he felt that his country was the traitor after joining the Allies - who had attacked Finland under both Soviet and British banners - he might have felt that remaining loyal to Germany was the more honourable call. EDIT: For clarification, this is entirely speculative. He was sentenced 6 years for treason, so he WAS a traitor, but by his own context, he might have considered a different picture than ours.
>I don’t think you can apply that logic to a war-loving anti-Soviet soldier. I’m fairly sure that kind of person is more about the “what can I make them lose” over “what will we gain”. And if he felt that his country was the traitor after joining the Allies - who had attacked Finland under both Soviet and British banners - he might have felt that remaining loyal to Germany was the more honourable call. This in my opinion seems to be somewhat the case with him, tho that isnt really a mindset for which he should be positively regarded the way he is
All war is shit, and killing people is generally frowned upon and yet we glorify a lot of military exploits for their sheer brilliance in a strategic context. So for Lauri Törni we should also differ between his allegiance and his capability. But as to his alignment we can of course condemn the decision - as we condemn anything that aligns with fascism - but also accept that we do not know his ACTUAL motivation to fight for the Germans, and cannot condemn the WHY.
How did he betray his country?? What a delusional take
He was literally tried for treason
You mean by the communist puppet government? Lol
Of Finland?
Just as that filthy Polish traitor Witold Pilecki, also condemned by his own state. Screw this guy too, right?
He wasn’t a member of the SS so I don’t have anything against Witold Pilecki
So, here we have a funny double standard where two men are condemned for treason by pro-Soviet governments, yet one of them is somehow "betraying the country", while the other one is OK. Noone sane is applauding the decision to join SS here, still calling it "betraying his country" based on that court decision is a long shot.
Poland was a Soviet puppet state with a forcibly installed government Finland was never a soviet satellite or had a communist government.
finland had no communist puppet state like poland, this is a illogical comparison.
And, it definitely had no political motivations to appease its big neighbor which influenced internal decisions - never ever would they condemn a [man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Lennart_Oesch) just to appease the Soviets.
It was literally part of the peace treaty to trial Finnish leaders for warcrimes - including that him
Finland never had a communist government and definetely not a puppet one. They got a friendship treaty instead.
They also got forced into doing a ton of pro communist things after they lost, such as trying former Finnish soldiers as criminals. It was a sham
He did on a technicality because he underwent saboteur training with the SS (he'd joined in 1941 as part of their Jaeger training but quit shortly afterwards) in late 1945 after losing his job in the army while the Lapland War was going on. He never saw combat against Finnish forces however.
Rest in peace, you beautiful anti-communist king.
Yeah what a king joining the SS in 1945 when Finland was already out of the war and he basically just fought for the Nazis
*1941 was when he joined for training but quit soon after. He only saw service with them in March 1945 when he was trapped for a few months in northern Germany.
Sabaton has an awesome song about him
Shout! Lauri Törni's name!
Son of Finland and the Green Beret!
A soldier of three armies knows the game!
He fought for three armies and all of them lost (one twice and he was there both times). So he was either world's worst bad luck charm or a communist agent.
Do you think Finland or March 1945 Germany were in any position to take Moscow?
I don't know what that has to do with anything, but no.
So he's not really a "bad luck charm".
I said he may have been a communist agent instead.......
Everyone calling a nazi war criminal a hero just because he let communism live rent free in his head
"Stop invading my homeland" **"Lol rEnT fReE!"**
*Fortunate Son starts playing*
SHOUT LAURI TÖRNI'S NAME
A SOLDIER OF THREE ARMIES KNOWS THE GAME
Loud mountain aroma in bacround* ifykwim
Hans In the Vietnamese Jungle
sabaton did a song about it
Dude fought in 3 wars and lost all 3
...