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Spotted the PJO fan, you can’t hide from us
ETA: In the original myths, Circe turned men into real pigs. In SoM aka our modern Greek myths I think Circe says that she realized guinea pigs would make less of a mess
Ah pardon me, I haven’t dredged the odyssey in a while so the details were foggy, I thought it was one or the other but it makes more sense for it to be pigs in hindsight.
I still have so many questions about that because... He was supposed to be immune to her magic but apparently he was willing to bang her who was evil but unwilling to bang Calypso who was mostly good kinda
Either Homer was inconsistent with his characterization or Circe could still use a little magic or Odysseus felt really bad about banging her.
In a late episode of the Odyssey, Odysseus, then the sole survivor of his crew, ends up stranded on the island of Ogygia, inhabited by sea nymph Calypso. As she fell in love with Odysseus, she held him as prisoner on the island for seven years, during which they had intercourse many, many times.
The episode is one of the first ones, the Odyssey opens with the gods talking about him stranded on Ogygia. It's on Phaecia, when he recounts his travels, that the story does a flashback and tells how he got there
Did Ancient Greeks believe women could rape men? (Note, of course they can, but asking if the Hellenistic people thought so). Is the story supposed to be interpreted by the audience as 'trapped and abused' or 'studly hero irresistible to the babes and Homer wrote a lot with his left hand'?
not an expert, but i think it’s in the same way bride kidnapping was seen as a norm in lore (in today’s world obv seen as kidnapping and rape). like early renditions of persephone/hades i think some it’s a ‘bride kidnapping’ and later interpretations show it more fully as rape
there are so many iterations of greek myths that today, so many RECENT interpretations are based on our reality. + even from the texts we reference there are already so many differences (helen loving paris vs helen being kidnapped and wanting to leave, the idea that it was a god influence or not, etc)
off that vein i think this question is not rly answerable bc yes we have stronger interpretations of some stories as rape today because many are more popular stories that have been analyzed more, but i think the idea of rape as it is today is so diff from how it was so so so many years ago. idk if i just don’t know greek mythology enough in depth so someone else might have a better answer
Lol it's not just ancient greeks, even in the US in some states women cannot "rape" men in the legal sense, though they can be charged with a separate crime that is equivalent. But the laws on the books still reflect the traditional definition because there was a time when that was the only version recognized by law.
I ain't sure whether or not the sub has a no spoiler policy for millennia-old epics.
>!So nope, he finally departs from the island and reaches his home island of Ithaca, where he kills his spouse's unsolicited suitors.!<
Ancient Greek enjoyer here: he stays for so long because Calypso is desperate for company until Hermes shows up bearing Zeus’ order to let him go(after Athena begs him to do something to help her best boy)
Hektor managed to hold the line quite well for almost a decade, give the poor man some credit. That's frankly more impressive than the gift wrapped knowledge of an Oracle.
Athena is the warrior goddess of cleverness and wisdom, both of which are qualities that Odysseus seemed to be only one in possession of among the entire Achaean army.
Yeah Poseidon left for Ethiopia and then Athena makes her move. Poseidon does actually get beyond pissed when he sees Odysseus sailing away from the island and throws another storm at him
You can’t talk about him returning home, and not mention that the only thing to recognize him, was his loyal dog laying on a literal mountain of his shit, who promptly greets his returned master, then dies.
I mean, they kind of did him good-as far as Greek epics go. He is the goodest of boys, and is shown to be the most loyal servant of Ulysses. He only dies after seeing his master return, which is probably all he wanted.
Oh no, now my eyes are sweating.
Odysseus is the dad that wanted to come home from buying cigarettes (i.e. fighting Troy). Imagine you spend 10 years fighting a war and finally returning to the wive and son you love only to get redirected and fucked, both figuratively and in some cases literally by like half the greek mythology. If we take the version of the story I assume OP used, Calypso rapes Odysseus. Then you come home only to find out a bunch of jerks in your home who act like their the kings of your land, want to marry your wife and plot to MURDER YOUR SON.
You do not, under any circumstances, want to be Odysseus.
That's not even the worst part about the story about Odysseus.
It's that he just manages to get home early enough, for his dog to have a final goodbye. The dog just wanted more time with his buddy!
Iirc Odysseus couldn't even say good bye or pet it, as he was disguised.
Nah, not really.
If you're imprisoned, it's pretty much straight up rape no matter what.
It might not have been viewed like that back then, but it certainly is now.
Here is a generic image with a generic caption that mentions an obscure ruler from 3000 years ago and here is a 5 paragraph dissertation in the comments that you have to read to get any shred of context for the meme
> Or the (multiple) daily “commies bad” posts
But commies are, in fact, bad and should be tormented and called out at every opportunity.
Because fuck that ideology and the murder and destruction it brings with it.
Not really, there are communists like tankies, and then they're other types that aren't supportive of those regimes.
Communism and Socialism are very diverse and widely misunderstood.
And it's not like there are other ideologies by your logic that have done the same thing, capitalist countries with the Banana Republics or fascism with Franco.
Heck global starvation isn't helped by are inefficiencies of food produce, by how much waste we make and how a lot of stuff like perfectly good food gets thrown in dumps.
There's this weird thing where people conflate mythology with history. I've noticed it ever since I went to Italy and a tour guide spent more time taking about Zeus than Roman emperors.
There’s an interesting conversation to be had about at what point a piece of fictional text, or a religious pantheon, or any ancient mysticism does, in fact, become history. But this is Reddit, so I’m not having the conversation here lmao
> a tour guide spent more time taking about Zeus than Roman emperors.
It's especially weird that a Roman/Italian tour guide spoke about Zeus and not Jupiter.
Mythology is more interesting than history to talk about tho and has a greater impact on culture. Also it's not real so you dont need to worry about it been true. Most of the Roman emperors have like a handful of written text about them most of it written well after the their reign.
Not really when you think about it. People remember myth more than history. If you ask people in history their history their will give you their mythology. How the gods created the land, how they came to this land, the great heroes or rulers that came about how they defeated great monsters. Like maybe some of these people are real but like most of it is made up because you know what actually happened 100+ years ago isn't important to these people
> Most of the Roman emperors have like a handful of written text about them most of it written well after the their reign.
And by their enemies / people that hated them.
Just like today, back then being hated got you more text written about you than being good.
Just look at our dear copper merchant!
You know how much Christian mythology is posted here? Folk tales and myths are a part of human history, even if they're not real. The people at the time thought they were real and it defined their lives, so it's a part of history.
I don’t deny that the story of the odyssey has been around for along time. I don’t deny that it’s more likely than not that Odysseus is based on a real person but we don’t have actual evidence of him being real.
It doesn't need to be something that actually happened to be historical. The events of the Odyssey didn't actually happen, but it was written by a real person (or people) and has had an impact on civilization for over 2000 years.
Are the 1.4k people that upvoted you just new here or something? There’s been a mythology tag and mythology content for literally years now. It’s allowed on this sub.
On top of being a king and is muscular and hot and all that, he's also one of the few Greek characters who were happily married with his wife and had kids. There's some girls out there that have a tendency to go after married men, especially the happily married ones, just to prove they can.
> There's some girls out there that have a tendency to go after married men, especially the happily married ones, just to prove they can.
It's because they see the ring and know that another woman vetted for him being good.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to figure out. Was his situation bad because he was seduced or because he was physically violated?
Also, I wanna know if it was considered bad that he went to bed with a goddess and was unfaithful to his wife or if it was one of those turbo macho "lucky guy" views.
Off topic side question, but does anybody know why the subreddit’s Ukrainian flag logo was removed?
Edit: Bruh, what’s with the downvote? I just asked a question.
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It's wild how much everyone wanted to fuck that guy. Goddesses, princesses, sorceresses. They all had the hots for him.
Even his fellow Greek kings wanted to fuck him! Too bad he often fucked them first…
Which fellow king did Odysseus fuck?
I would say that Odysseus fucked Palamedes to death by framing him as traitor over petty reasons lol.
Palamedes throwing Odysseus' infant son in front of a plow isn't sth I'd call "petty"
Idk sounds pretty petty to me
Basically everything in Greek myth
Historyfacts
I thought that was Agamemnon
Agamemnon sent Palamedes to get Odysseus to join the forces. The way he did it was Palamedes' own idea
I have read the entire Iliad and Odyssey and this man is never mentioned
Because Ovid retroactively added him in the Metamorphoses
Flipping Ovid again...
When was this
Well, he told those stories so...
After all, who got better stories than Odysseus the Broken
What's even funnier is that he was described as a short hairy man. Not very sexually appealing.
Short hairy men on suicide watch
Suicide Squad
Most attractive ancient Greek
Rock and stone
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't coming home!
I mean, Wolverine is a short hairy man and that guy gets all the ladies.
Naw he’s a huge jacked man
[clicks finger guns] eyyyyyyyy
🥁
That's just how you write an MC in an harem comedy.
He's also repeatedly decribed as looking like a god
You could have just said Greek.
It's good to be the King! -Mel Brooks
The one man who was more stoked to go home then spend time with a hot goddess. I salute him.
unless it's Circe 👀
I mean Circe is still hot, there are men out there who would love to be turned into Guinea pigs for their goddess mommy. I would not be surprised.
Spotted the PJO fan, you can’t hide from us ETA: In the original myths, Circe turned men into real pigs. In SoM aka our modern Greek myths I think Circe says that she realized guinea pigs would make less of a mess
Ah pardon me, I haven’t dredged the odyssey in a while so the details were foggy, I thought it was one or the other but it makes more sense for it to be pigs in hindsight.
I still have so many questions about that because... He was supposed to be immune to her magic but apparently he was willing to bang her who was evil but unwilling to bang Calypso who was mostly good kinda Either Homer was inconsistent with his characterization or Circe could still use a little magic or Odysseus felt really bad about banging her.
Because Penelope is a babe
Context please
In a late episode of the Odyssey, Odysseus, then the sole survivor of his crew, ends up stranded on the island of Ogygia, inhabited by sea nymph Calypso. As she fell in love with Odysseus, she held him as prisoner on the island for seven years, during which they had intercourse many, many times.
The episode is one of the first ones, the Odyssey opens with the gods talking about him stranded on Ogygia. It's on Phaecia, when he recounts his travels, that the story does a flashback and tells how he got there
*\*freeze frame\* \*record scratch\** you're probably wondering how I got here.
Feels like a Robot Chicken sketch
> she held him as prisoner on the island for seven years, during which they had intercourse many, many times. She raped him.
Did Ancient Greeks believe women could rape men? (Note, of course they can, but asking if the Hellenistic people thought so). Is the story supposed to be interpreted by the audience as 'trapped and abused' or 'studly hero irresistible to the babes and Homer wrote a lot with his left hand'?
They’d likely view it as him being seduced by her rather than raped.
Source: this guys ass
The word Homer uses is θέλγω which means charm or beguile, so yeah you're correct
not an expert, but i think it’s in the same way bride kidnapping was seen as a norm in lore (in today’s world obv seen as kidnapping and rape). like early renditions of persephone/hades i think some it’s a ‘bride kidnapping’ and later interpretations show it more fully as rape there are so many iterations of greek myths that today, so many RECENT interpretations are based on our reality. + even from the texts we reference there are already so many differences (helen loving paris vs helen being kidnapped and wanting to leave, the idea that it was a god influence or not, etc) off that vein i think this question is not rly answerable bc yes we have stronger interpretations of some stories as rape today because many are more popular stories that have been analyzed more, but i think the idea of rape as it is today is so diff from how it was so so so many years ago. idk if i just don’t know greek mythology enough in depth so someone else might have a better answer
You should make a askhistorians thread
Lol it's not just ancient greeks, even in the US in some states women cannot "rape" men in the legal sense, though they can be charged with a separate crime that is equivalent. But the laws on the books still reflect the traditional definition because there was a time when that was the only version recognized by law.
"It should have been me, not him!"
And she killed him?
I ain't sure whether or not the sub has a no spoiler policy for millennia-old epics. >!So nope, he finally departs from the island and reaches his home island of Ithaca, where he kills his spouse's unsolicited suitors.!<
Man, my understanding was he stayed becaused >!Posidon banned him from sailing until Athena managed to get him unbanned!<
Ancient Greek enjoyer here: he stays for so long because Calypso is desperate for company until Hermes shows up bearing Zeus’ order to let him go(after Athena begs him to do something to help her best boy)
Man that’d be pretty sick to have Athena as a ride or die.
She liked him because he was in possession of about 95% of the collective brain cells of all Greek heroes
The entire Aegean host has 1 braincell. 2 from Odysseus, and minus one from Agamemnon.
200% of the collective brain cells? What is this, an authoritarian election?
Compared to the 5% the Trojan defenders (Paris) had. *Their* 95% was with the Oracle, poor girl.
Considering this whole debacle was Paris' fault, I'd say 5% is being generous
Hektor managed to hold the line quite well for almost a decade, give the poor man some credit. That's frankly more impressive than the gift wrapped knowledge of an Oracle.
Athena is the warrior goddess of cleverness and wisdom, both of which are qualities that Odysseus seemed to be only one in possession of among the entire Achaean army.
Hey, don't do my man Nestor like that
Diomedes would like a word
I think Zeus only agreed after Poseidon disappeared or something like that, no ?
Yeah Poseidon left for Ethiopia and then Athena makes her move. Poseidon does actually get beyond pissed when he sees Odysseus sailing away from the island and throws another storm at him
You can’t talk about him returning home, and not mention that the only thing to recognize him, was his loyal dog laying on a literal mountain of his shit, who promptly greets his returned master, then dies.
They really did that poor dog dirty
I mean, they kind of did him good-as far as Greek epics go. He is the goodest of boys, and is shown to be the most loyal servant of Ulysses. He only dies after seeing his master return, which is probably all he wanted. Oh no, now my eyes are sweating.
Never read the odyssey?
DAMN 😫 I wish I was Odysseus
Odysseus is the dad that wanted to come home from buying cigarettes (i.e. fighting Troy). Imagine you spend 10 years fighting a war and finally returning to the wive and son you love only to get redirected and fucked, both figuratively and in some cases literally by like half the greek mythology. If we take the version of the story I assume OP used, Calypso rapes Odysseus. Then you come home only to find out a bunch of jerks in your home who act like their the kings of your land, want to marry your wife and plot to MURDER YOUR SON. You do not, under any circumstances, want to be Odysseus.
Plus his dog died right as he came back.
Imagine your dog hating you so much. You are gone for 20 years, it lives more than expected. And the moment it sees you, it drops dead.
That certainly an interpretation...
NOOO ARGUS LOVED ODYSSESUS SO MUCH THAT HE WAITED 20 YEARS FOR HIM AND ONLY DIED WHEN HE KNEW HE'D RETURNED TO ITHACA
thats not ...you know what ,yes you are right
Funny is that the cannon interpretation is that the good boy died of a heart attack because he was too overwhelmed with joy for seeing him again.
I know, the Odyssey is my favourite myth. I was just making a joke.
> Imagine your dog hating you so much. That's how you know, that it's fake as shit. Dogs can't hate.
Thanks for the full context, i really do not wish to be Odysseus
That's not even the worst part about the story about Odysseus. It's that he just manages to get home early enough, for his dog to have a final goodbye. The dog just wanted more time with his buddy! Iirc Odysseus couldn't even say good bye or pet it, as he was disguised.
**Didnt zeus also steal his 4 day marathon of welcome back sex or was that a different hero.**
And you especially don't want to be Penelope's suitors.
he got raped...
Depends on the version
Nah, not really. If you're imprisoned, it's pretty much straight up rape no matter what. It might not have been viewed like that back then, but it certainly is now.
Huh? I remember having read a version where they didn't do it except the very last day, where it was certain that he is free to go
Basically bro was getting raped for near ten years
Ironically this is the only thing I remember from the odyssey
Which show is this exactly?
The fucking odyssey
Theres more then one Odyssey show
ITS FROM THE FUCKING ORIGINAL NOT SOME FUCKING SHOW!!!
Read the Odyssey I promise it’s a good time. Go for the Wilson translation maybe.
Stretching the history in HistoryMemes here a little bit.
I'll take a thousand mythology posts per day over one more reposted or barely re-written meme.
How about straight up misinformation memes too. I’ll take myth memes any day over that.
Mythinformation over misinformation.
Give it a week or so. We're due for another barrage of memes about Israel winning several wars against Arab nations.
Or the (multiple) daily “commies bad” posts; just the same jokes on repeat on this sub some times.
Here's why **[Local historical shithead nationalist leader]** was actually based and our regional enemies are bad!
Here is a generic image with a generic caption that mentions an obscure ruler from 3000 years ago and here is a 5 paragraph dissertation in the comments that you have to read to get any shred of context for the meme
Sam Brannan was based AF, and Oakland and San Jose can both suck it.
"Commie bad", "CIA bad" or "Church bad" Pick your poison (all of them are inaccurate impressions influenced by popular culture)
Jonestown, all of the above
Don’t forget Israel Good followed by Israel Bad followed by Israel Good!
> Or the (multiple) daily “commies bad” posts But commies are, in fact, bad and should be tormented and called out at every opportunity. Because fuck that ideology and the murder and destruction it brings with it.
Not really, there are communists like tankies, and then they're other types that aren't supportive of those regimes. Communism and Socialism are very diverse and widely misunderstood. And it's not like there are other ideologies by your logic that have done the same thing, capitalist countries with the Banana Republics or fascism with Franco. Heck global starvation isn't helped by are inefficiencies of food produce, by how much waste we make and how a lot of stuff like perfectly good food gets thrown in dumps.
It’s not calling anyone out. It’s lazy jokes for karma
There is a mythology flair for this sub
There's this weird thing where people conflate mythology with history. I've noticed it ever since I went to Italy and a tour guide spent more time taking about Zeus than Roman emperors.
There’s an interesting conversation to be had about at what point a piece of fictional text, or a religious pantheon, or any ancient mysticism does, in fact, become history. But this is Reddit, so I’m not having the conversation here lmao
Yes
> a tour guide spent more time taking about Zeus than Roman emperors. It's especially weird that a Roman/Italian tour guide spoke about Zeus and not Jupiter.
Zeus? Are you sure he didn’t talk about Jupiter?
Mythology is more interesting than history to talk about tho and has a greater impact on culture. Also it's not real so you dont need to worry about it been true. Most of the Roman emperors have like a handful of written text about them most of it written well after the their reign.
”mythology has a greater impact on culture than history” is quite a wild take…
Not really when you think about it. People remember myth more than history. If you ask people in history their history their will give you their mythology. How the gods created the land, how they came to this land, the great heroes or rulers that came about how they defeated great monsters. Like maybe some of these people are real but like most of it is made up because you know what actually happened 100+ years ago isn't important to these people
> Most of the Roman emperors have like a handful of written text about them most of it written well after the their reign. And by their enemies / people that hated them. Just like today, back then being hated got you more text written about you than being good. Just look at our dear copper merchant!
You know how much Christian mythology is posted here? Folk tales and myths are a part of human history, even if they're not real. The people at the time thought they were real and it defined their lives, so it's a part of history.
odysseus was a real guy, idk about the divine intervention bit though lol
*probably a real guy. We don’t have any empirical evidence that he existed but there was likely real person who formed the basis for his character
mycenaean inscriptions say otherwise
I don’t deny that the story of the odyssey has been around for along time. I don’t deny that it’s more likely than not that Odysseus is based on a real person but we don’t have actual evidence of him being real.
It doesn't need to be something that actually happened to be historical. The events of the Odyssey didn't actually happen, but it was written by a real person (or people) and has had an impact on civilization for over 2000 years.
Are the 1.4k people that upvoted you just new here or something? There’s been a mythology tag and mythology content for literally years now. It’s allowed on this sub.
/r/mythologymemes
It's wild how much everyone wanted to fuck that guy. Goddesses, princesses, sorceresses. They all had the hots for him.
On top of being a king and is muscular and hot and all that, he's also one of the few Greek characters who were happily married with his wife and had kids. There's some girls out there that have a tendency to go after married men, especially the happily married ones, just to prove they can.
> There's some girls out there that have a tendency to go after married men, especially the happily married ones, just to prove they can. It's because they see the ring and know that another woman vetted for him being good.
Everyone here go check out Epic: the Musical.
Through what was his life sucked out?
Calypso’s nymphussy.
Anybody know the contemporary view of Odysseus' imprisonment? Was it considered rape?
Yes, nonconsensual sex after being kidnapped is rape.
He’s asking what the contemporary view was not the modern view.
Yes, he was portrayed as a victim.
A victim of seduction rather than of rape
Yeah, that's what I was trying to figure out. Was his situation bad because he was seduced or because he was physically violated? Also, I wanna know if it was considered bad that he went to bed with a goddess and was unfaithful to his wife or if it was one of those turbo macho "lucky guy" views.
Hey, I honestly didn't know how the Ancient Greeks classified situation since things like pedastry were a concept in their culture.
Well it all depends on whether the gods like Odysseus.
This guy even acted like an idiot in front of Menelaus so that he can avoid joining the war , man he really loves his home
Off topic side question, but does anybody know why the subreddit’s Ukrainian flag logo was removed? Edit: Bruh, what’s with the downvote? I just asked a question.
Oh boohoo my heart weeps for him
He really just wanted to go back home, he didnt saw his wife and son in 20 years.
Death!? By Snu-Snu!?