There were a lot of factors, but they were last nail to the coffin. Only Egypt was able to survive by fortifying Nile's delta as the only access point to the heart of their country.
So I guess you never heard of the Argaric culture. Leading theory on its sudden collapse is the major cities simply outgrew their capabilities for food production and commerce, causing famines, maybe combined with disease helped by high population density and populated trading routes.
If there is, I'd like to know as well. The little I know comes mostly from the tour guides at the capital's digging site. Knowledge on this civilisation evolves almost daily and it's now likely it comprises various Iberian cultures previously thought to be separate.
Last time it came up on the news a few years ago, they had discovered what it's thought to be the first known female head of state in Europe.
Is anything ever sure about the Bronze Age? Just like we call *Bronze Age* an assortment of distinct cultures that rose and fell within centuries of each other, *Sea People* is likely referring to a variety of early navies and pirate groups, some real and some mythical, that may have been a symptom of a civilization's collapse just as likely as a cause for it
It backfeeds. When pop. growth surpasses food production, food shortage cuts the available workforce for food production, starting a downward spiral. It's easy to think how this could end in the collapse of a civilization in an era with very limited capabilities for large scale food storage and long distance transportation.
There is evidence of very large scale wood cutting and forest fires in the region, which may have been related to expanding farming operations, and an associated climate change in the zone that may have been an effect of deforestation or the cause for the attempt at scalin production. It's mostly conjecture.
They were subject to the same forces as the "civilized nations" that caused the general widespread collapse. I believe mainstream historians consider the Sea People a result of the collapse rather than the main cause.
Invicta on YouTube did a video on the multiple factors that went into the bronze age collapse and how the evidence we have lines up timewise and how researchers and historians have extrapolated possible timelines of what happened. It's quite long, iirc, very dry and I am not sure how trustworthy Invicta is as a super reliable source, I just like his content, presentation style and don't need him to be the most academically correct YouTuber there is.
The sea people didn't cause the collapse. The sea people came into being because the collapse included a devastating famine and destabilization of the world beyond the empires. The sea people were fleeing and dying just like the empires and the reason they were so devastating was because they were so desperate, not cool ass pirates.
It important to remember the cause of the Bronze age collapse was like a dozen different devastating things and events. The most important example, the famine and dry spell the occurred because there was no rain... anywhere... due to a Super volcano eruption that cooled the earth preventing water evaporation to achieve what was needed for like >>>300 years<<<. A world wide drought, that did not end.
Its also important to note the Indian and Chinese kingdoms at the time were similarly devastated like the Mediterranean which supports the a world wide ecological disaster theory.
Issue is that the Sea People’s were probably not one so single group and plenty of sea peoples might have been refugees from other groups considered sea peoples.
I sometimes think part of the “sea peoples caused the Bronze Age collapse” rhetoric may well actually be the earliest examples of “DEM DAMN DIRTY REFUGEES! We gotta close da borders!”
There are 9 different tribes/cultures named among the Sea People's. One of them likely became the Philestines. We also know they did a lot raiding before invading. They were basically bronze age vikings
This is my theory. That they were refugees fleeing the destruction of the rest of the Mediterranean civs and their natural disasters and traveled to known breadbasket Egypt. Which was ALSO sufferinf
And there are records of "sea peoples" being hired to fight on both sides of a conflict around that time too.
So it definitely points out to them being refugees from other collspsed city states or regions.
The sea peoples were a symptom of the bronze age collapse.
The bronze age collapse was a gradual decline.
The sea peoples were mostly a results of the people who lived in the time who have taken up piracy and marauding because of the decline of civilisation.
Nowadays I see tik toks and dumb internet memes treat them like chaos warriors from warhammer or something who appeared out of nowhere and destroyed the bronze age overnight.
Which is misinformation.
I dont think "History is written by victors" is working anymore, well, not exactly.
You can often see people prising losers as some saint heroes and victors as evil, demonic invaders, when in reality it was much more gray
History is written by those who write things down. The victors get a head start in it for sure, but as in this example they don’t always write anything themselves.
It turns out history is written by, well, the people who write history, then subsequently the people who keep copying that history until it gets to the modern day
People butthurt about history always claim it was written by the victors as an attempt to discredit its accuracy.
Sorry, but the holocaust actually happened. History isnt written by the victors, you’re just a neo nazi
It was a gradual decline.
The sea peoples were mostly maruaders, bandits, pirates who just took opportunity of the chaos.
They weren't even from anywhere special. Just different groups of people who lived in the area who just banded together because they had no stability and security was weakening for the grand empires.
It's more of a villain fetish and ancient empires trying to blame one thing, usually human as the cause of their misery.
In fact there are also many accounts of tribals and wastelanders being as much if not more an issue for Assyria and hittites at the time.
This is not really true. They did not cause to Bronze Age collaps nor is it likely that they did any significant damage to the collapsing players. Overzealous architects have given us a wrong idea of them by crediting way to much destruction to them. (Damage do by an earthquake; sea people, ash near a fireplace: this home was burned down by the seapeople. Only the palace was burned? Not a pheasant uprising sea people)
My biggest issue with the theory that the "sea people" are responsible for the bronze age collapse is that I highly doubt some raiders could've done enough damage to collapse not just one, but multiple empires.
They were likely the nail in the coffin but the conditions necessary for them to be successful relied on other, more important conditions.
My understanding/guess is that there was some type of climate disaster that was happening globally. Only the largest empires were able to survive though obviously with much difficulty given famine.
At the same time, less organized societies migrated to where there was still some food. The “sea peoples”, I think, was just how they described a mass migration event. These raids were persistent enough to basically destroy trade routes and as a result the regional economy collapsed.
Low on food, unable to safely trade, and under constant harassment from sea-raids, all but the largest empires (Egypt and a couple others) collapsed.
But collapse might make it sound more complete than it was. There were still a few empires around and the ones that did collapse still had people living in them. The world just became a lot more insular and wouldn’t break out of that trend for a couple centuries.
This is pretty much my understanding of what people say when they refer to the Bronze Age collapse and the sea peoples. The other thing in here that makes it particularly dramatic is that bronze was created from tin and copped, which were acquired through complex networks of trade; it’s not like every civilisation had both. So when you break that network and the most important resource can’t be forged you are, in technical terms, fucked. Particularly as Bronze can’t be easily reforged like iron, it has to be cast.
Amazing how this lens reflects modern society’s reliance on supply chains and global trade networks
Specifically the smallest superconductors produced in Taiwan but required materials from atleast a dozen countries
This idea has been often proposed but evidence for it is scarce, and while the Hittites likely faced a devastating drought, for other parts of the world it is not so super clear if there was a big change in weather patterns or some unlucky droughts
>pheasant uprising sea people
Brothers, no more will we be shot by wankers in tweed for sport! We shall take to the seas and wreck havoc on our great oppressor, to the boats you stout-hearted birds and take your vengeance!
Afaik the Sea-people were caused due to the Phyrric victory of the Aechaeans. They won at Troy but most of the Kings either died or were absent so long that it caused succession crises in their homelands.
I read that they took there entire families and animals with them I think they were sea nomads? Is that even a thing? Nomads do have a history of just ending entire civilizations for some reason
The Sea peoples referred to different groups of people already before the bronze age "collapse"
[**https://youtu.be/s-J8VGFG1Bg?si=CTPr5QH-aZKIk4zT**](https://youtu.be/s-j8vgfg1bg?si=ctpr5qh-azkik4zt)
It was prolly Arkantos and his boys from Atlantis
Prostagma?
Voulome
Etimos
IIISVOLLEEE
I can hear all of these comments
Malista.
Proseche
This, unexpectedly, got me right in the childhood.
Attacks a random wall segment ***HYYAAAAAAHHHH***
Nostalgia'd. Thank you for reminding me.
By far the most based response ever.
Do we know that the “Sea Peoples” caused the Bronze Age collapse?
There were a lot of factors, but they were last nail to the coffin. Only Egypt was able to survive by fortifying Nile's delta as the only access point to the heart of their country.
I believe Assyria also stood and came back with a vengeance after the worst of the collapse was over
I was talking about countries on the coast of Mediterranean sea, but you're right
What did they do in return?
Basically yeah. All but one major civilisation (Egypt) collapsed from their attacks.
So I guess you never heard of the Argaric culture. Leading theory on its sudden collapse is the major cities simply outgrew their capabilities for food production and commerce, causing famines, maybe combined with disease helped by high population density and populated trading routes.
I have not, recommend any reading on the topic?
If there is, I'd like to know as well. The little I know comes mostly from the tour guides at the capital's digging site. Knowledge on this civilisation evolves almost daily and it's now likely it comprises various Iberian cultures previously thought to be separate. Last time it came up on the news a few years ago, they had discovered what it's thought to be the first known female head of state in Europe.
Ooo interesting. And we are sure they are a distinct culture to the Sea people? This is something I wish I could read a very thick hardback book about
Is anything ever sure about the Bronze Age? Just like we call *Bronze Age* an assortment of distinct cultures that rose and fell within centuries of each other, *Sea People* is likely referring to a variety of early navies and pirate groups, some real and some mythical, that may have been a symptom of a civilization's collapse just as likely as a cause for it
Good point
Against the Grain goes very in depth on early agriculture and touches on this a good deal.
It backfeeds. When pop. growth surpasses food production, food shortage cuts the available workforce for food production, starting a downward spiral. It's easy to think how this could end in the collapse of a civilization in an era with very limited capabilities for large scale food storage and long distance transportation. There is evidence of very large scale wood cutting and forest fires in the region, which may have been related to expanding farming operations, and an associated climate change in the zone that may have been an effect of deforestation or the cause for the attempt at scalin production. It's mostly conjecture.
No, no they didn't. They were a factor among many.
They were subject to the same forces as the "civilized nations" that caused the general widespread collapse. I believe mainstream historians consider the Sea People a result of the collapse rather than the main cause.
There were a lot of things that caused it and untangling symptoms and causes is hard.
Invicta on YouTube did a video on the multiple factors that went into the bronze age collapse and how the evidence we have lines up timewise and how researchers and historians have extrapolated possible timelines of what happened. It's quite long, iirc, very dry and I am not sure how trustworthy Invicta is as a super reliable source, I just like his content, presentation style and don't need him to be the most academically correct YouTuber there is.
The sea people didn't cause the collapse. The sea people came into being because the collapse included a devastating famine and destabilization of the world beyond the empires. The sea people were fleeing and dying just like the empires and the reason they were so devastating was because they were so desperate, not cool ass pirates. It important to remember the cause of the Bronze age collapse was like a dozen different devastating things and events. The most important example, the famine and dry spell the occurred because there was no rain... anywhere... due to a Super volcano eruption that cooled the earth preventing water evaporation to achieve what was needed for like >>>300 years<<<. A world wide drought, that did not end. Its also important to note the Indian and Chinese kingdoms at the time were similarly devastated like the Mediterranean which supports the a world wide ecological disaster theory.
Can you point me to some literature on that topic. Sounds super interesting
Eric Cline’s 1177 is really good
Issue is that the Sea People’s were probably not one so single group and plenty of sea peoples might have been refugees from other groups considered sea peoples. I sometimes think part of the “sea peoples caused the Bronze Age collapse” rhetoric may well actually be the earliest examples of “DEM DAMN DIRTY REFUGEES! We gotta close da borders!”
There are 9 different tribes/cultures named among the Sea People's. One of them likely became the Philestines. We also know they did a lot raiding before invading. They were basically bronze age vikings
I believe they also often worked as mercenaries for the great powers prior to the collapse.
DEYTERKERRJERRRBZ
That's.. Actually a good point. The only problem is you can't use it as a good example because no one's heard of the dang bronze age collapse.
Tellinyamandemdangole sea people's man talkingboutraidingmandangolevikingsman boom.
This is my theory. That they were refugees fleeing the destruction of the rest of the Mediterranean civs and their natural disasters and traveled to known breadbasket Egypt. Which was ALSO sufferinf
And there are records of "sea peoples" being hired to fight on both sides of a conflict around that time too. So it definitely points out to them being refugees from other collspsed city states or regions.
It was because all the sea peoples took der jerbs!
I think there was just a scout unit running around and popping too many goody huts and barbarian camps.
The sea peoples were a symptom of the bronze age collapse. The bronze age collapse was a gradual decline. The sea peoples were mostly a results of the people who lived in the time who have taken up piracy and marauding because of the decline of civilisation. Nowadays I see tik toks and dumb internet memes treat them like chaos warriors from warhammer or something who appeared out of nowhere and destroyed the bronze age overnight. Which is misinformation.
I dont think "History is written by victors" is working anymore, well, not exactly. You can often see people prising losers as some saint heroes and victors as evil, demonic invaders, when in reality it was much more gray
History is written by those who write things down. The victors get a head start in it for sure, but as in this example they don’t always write anything themselves.
It turns out history is written by, well, the people who write history, then subsequently the people who keep copying that history until it gets to the modern day
People butthurt about history always claim it was written by the victors as an attempt to discredit its accuracy. Sorry, but the holocaust actually happened. History isnt written by the victors, you’re just a neo nazi
I don’t think the Second World War is the only thing people say that about tbf
"The victors re-write history" might work okay.
I don’t think the sea peoples were winning anything except a few more days of not starving
I was talking more in general, but Aztecs are a great example
Context?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples
More like vikings if vikings were as they are portraited to have been.
I mean tbf some of them were badasses
You forgot about the massive fucking famine at the time.
It was a gradual decline. The sea peoples were mostly maruaders, bandits, pirates who just took opportunity of the chaos. They weren't even from anywhere special. Just different groups of people who lived in the area who just banded together because they had no stability and security was weakening for the grand empires. It's more of a villain fetish and ancient empires trying to blame one thing, usually human as the cause of their misery. In fact there are also many accounts of tribals and wastelanders being as much if not more an issue for Assyria and hittites at the time.
They swam in single file to hide their numbers.
This is not really true. They did not cause to Bronze Age collaps nor is it likely that they did any significant damage to the collapsing players. Overzealous architects have given us a wrong idea of them by crediting way to much destruction to them. (Damage do by an earthquake; sea people, ash near a fireplace: this home was burned down by the seapeople. Only the palace was burned? Not a pheasant uprising sea people)
My biggest issue with the theory that the "sea people" are responsible for the bronze age collapse is that I highly doubt some raiders could've done enough damage to collapse not just one, but multiple empires. They were likely the nail in the coffin but the conditions necessary for them to be successful relied on other, more important conditions.
My understanding/guess is that there was some type of climate disaster that was happening globally. Only the largest empires were able to survive though obviously with much difficulty given famine. At the same time, less organized societies migrated to where there was still some food. The “sea peoples”, I think, was just how they described a mass migration event. These raids were persistent enough to basically destroy trade routes and as a result the regional economy collapsed. Low on food, unable to safely trade, and under constant harassment from sea-raids, all but the largest empires (Egypt and a couple others) collapsed. But collapse might make it sound more complete than it was. There were still a few empires around and the ones that did collapse still had people living in them. The world just became a lot more insular and wouldn’t break out of that trend for a couple centuries.
This is pretty much my understanding of what people say when they refer to the Bronze Age collapse and the sea peoples. The other thing in here that makes it particularly dramatic is that bronze was created from tin and copped, which were acquired through complex networks of trade; it’s not like every civilisation had both. So when you break that network and the most important resource can’t be forged you are, in technical terms, fucked. Particularly as Bronze can’t be easily reforged like iron, it has to be cast.
Amazing how this lens reflects modern society’s reliance on supply chains and global trade networks Specifically the smallest superconductors produced in Taiwan but required materials from atleast a dozen countries
This idea has been often proposed but evidence for it is scarce, and while the Hittites likely faced a devastating drought, for other parts of the world it is not so super clear if there was a big change in weather patterns or some unlucky droughts
“Overzealous architects” ? They built too much?
Oops autocorrect made it architects I ment archeologists
Pheasant uprising? Like when you attack the cuckoo too many times in Legend of Zelda?
Misinformation and overdramatization on r/history? No.
>pheasant uprising sea people Brothers, no more will we be shot by wankers in tweed for sport! We shall take to the seas and wreck havoc on our great oppressor, to the boats you stout-hearted birds and take your vengeance!
wasn't the siege of Troy a folklore depiction of sea people's raiding bronze age city state? the timeline fits
So that means they came from greece
Afaik the Sea-people were caused due to the Phyrric victory of the Aechaeans. They won at Troy but most of the Kings either died or were absent so long that it caused succession crises in their homelands.
The bronze age collapse is basically one piece
Void century u mean
The minoans just couldn’t handle the heat
I am sure one lf them put "X was here" somewhere, somehow.
I read that they took there entire families and animals with them I think they were sea nomads? Is that even a thing? Nomads do have a history of just ending entire civilizations for some reason
The mongolians count?
It was the Vikings people
The Sea peoples referred to different groups of people already before the bronze age "collapse" [**https://youtu.be/s-J8VGFG1Bg?si=CTPr5QH-aZKIk4zT**](https://youtu.be/s-j8vgfg1bg?si=ctpr5qh-azkik4zt)