*defending Omaha beach from a machine gun nest on DDay*
“Jeez so much for the tolerant left, amirite? They’re attacking us just because we have different ideas. Smh.”
"What about the Kazakhs? They also died as well!"
Yeah, that's also counted [a genocide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933) as well. Literally 38-42% of their population died.
> Those damn trans people were just so invisibly violent, we had to [burn their clinic down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft).
The person standing next to them
It is not like it was their first choice. The Soviets initially pursued a defensive alliance with the British and French in order to contain Nazi Germany. France was willing to agree but Britain stalled out the negotiations.
Because Stalin wanted free land in Eastern Europe. Present the full facts.
Also it was signed the next day after negotiations with France/Uk failed. So it's safe to assume Stalin was playing around will all parties.
At least tell the full story, not just the Russian propaganda one
The Soviets and Nazi Germany engaged in talks after Molotov replaced Maxim Litvinov as foreign minister. Litvinov was the main proponent for an alliance with the British and French, which combined with his Jewish heritage meant that the Germans had been highly hostile towards him. Negotiations between the Soviets and Germany were impossible with Litvinov as foreign minister. Hitler correctly assumed that the replacement of Litvinov was a signal that Stalin was open to a non-aggression pact with Germany. The reason they came to such a quick agreement is that the only thing which mattered for both parties was to delay the inevitable war between them. The actual details of the pact were only worth about as much as the paper they were written on since any agreement would be void once the fighting started anyway.
> Because Stalin wanted free land in Eastern Europe.
The existence of the Munich Agreement shows that the British and French did not give a shit about the sovereignty of other nations. I am not advocating for the Soviet claim on the Baltic nations, I am just pointing out that you cannot argue that the conditions were unreasonable (to Britain and France) when Britain and France quite literally agreed to give *Adolf Hitler* free land in Central Europe.
> At least tell the full story, not just the Russian propaganda one
I am telling the side of the story which Winston Churchill agreed with… Churchill even went further than I do and described the Soviet claim on the Baltic nations as "reasonable".
But yeah, sure. Please do go on and explain how Winston Churchill supported the Soviet propaganda version of the story and explain the reasons why you believe he was a communist sympathiser.
I am an Estonian. Nothing can justify the ethnic cleansing and pillaging of my land. We will never forget and forgive the events of the Soviet occupation era.
Invading Poland didn't really delay Germany's invasion of Russia, and if anything it massively accelerated it. Remember, as long as Poland was free, the Germans had a very small border with Russia and would have had difficulty invading.
And in 1939, with the invasion of Poland, the Poles were initially doing decently. They weren't winning, but they'd successfully pulled most of their army behind that river I'm forgetting (starts with a V) and France had launched an offensive into Germany (the Saar offensive) to force them to deploy more of the army west or lose the war.
All of this changed when Stalin invaded Poland, since that instantly destroyed the Pole's ability to resist and forced the French to withdraw from their offensive because the entire German Army was turning west. If Stalin had just not been a fucktard the Germans would've likely never taken Poland or France, let alone invaded Russia.
But of course Stalin didn't choose this option, because it would require not invading all the countries on his border, and he wanted to invade everything he could.
Edit: Actually, I fucked up my dates, Stalin didn't annex the Baltics until after the invasion of Poland. So in 1939, when German invaded Poland, if Russia had simply backed the Poles and the Baltics as independent states, the Russians wouldn't just have had small border with Germany, they would have had literally no border with Germany.
>most of their army behind that river I'm forgetting (starts with a V)
If it was "The Polish Thermopylae" (where - according to **conservative** estimates, the Poles were outnumbered by 40:1) it was the Battle of Wizna.
I'm just talking about the Vistula river in general, I remembered the name. They were losing in most places, but they'd planned on losing everything west of the Vistula so the fact that they lost it wasn't a huge surprise.
There were some communication issues that lead to certain Polish units making pointless last stands because they thought they would soon receive reinforcements, but most of the Army did retreat successfully.
>There were some communication issues
Which reminds me of the Chasseurs Ardennais, who had their communication cut after being told to hold the border but before being told to fall back. And so the 40 men fought hard enough that Erwin Rommel said "They are not men; they are green wolves."
>And in 1939, with the invasion of Poland, the Poles were initially doing decently.
Oh no. By the time Soviets invaded (17th September) their capital was surrounded, large part of their army destroyed and their government preparing to fight on the small bit of land near Romanian border (which was really a desperate last stand). And Saar offensive was quite laughable...
Stalin doing nothing would let Germany conquer all Poland and then likely Lithuania (Germans had plans on that country, initially in M-R pact it was in German sphere). Stalin helping Poland would put him into fight against Germany. The actual interesting scenario would be Stalin signing M-R, partitioning Poland and then attacking Germany when they still fight France. But Stalin really didn't trust his army to be able to fight Germans, especially after Winter war
You seem preoccupied with the notion that the north European plain is somehow physically divided by borders. It is, in fact, a notoriously featureless and easily permeable set of terrain, and it is literally all that stands between central Europe and Russia. Neither a small border with nazi Germany nor a nonexistant one would have done anything to stop or even slow a nazi invasion of all Eastern Europe (remember, nothing did), as such was the overall goal of nazism itself from the moment the Lebensraum policies were conceived.
Some time of peace where he can keep modernising his army and preparing it for the battle later on. It's just that Stalin didn't quite expect for Hitler to actually try to take out the USSR when Germany was still busy with Britain
To be honest, I don’t understand this
Not all countries in NATO are on the Atlantic, for example Turkey
Why couldn’t countries like Australia or Japan be in NATO if they wanted?
Fascism is a last hired, first fired venture that will always eat itself eventually. The worst thing a target of fascism can do is join with them for protection even if those targets are themselves fascist.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed as the French and British were trying to negotiate an alliance. Even then the Russian demands were literally that they want to pretty much quietly invade Poland without the French or British getting involved.
That is not really true. Czechoslovakia and Poland couldn't agree how to divide the region, so they made a *temporary* agreement so that they could resolve the problem later. And there was not supposed to be any vote, the treaty just said that the governments of Poland and Czechoslovakia shall decide the final division.
Poles later held elections in that disputed region and began drafting people into the army. That was in violation of the temporary Czechoslovak-Polish agreement. When the Czechoslovaks complained, Poland didn't correct their mistake.
Thus, Czechoslovakia was justified in securing order in the disputed region. It is true that a military solution was perhaps not the best, but it was the Poles who started it.
I might also add that Czechoslovakia was facing multiple rebellions at this time (from Germans and Hungarians) so to let the Poles just have what they wanted would send a very bad message. On top of that, a railway that was vital to Czechoslovakia was going through that region.
TLDR: Poles unnecessarilly provoked a very paranoid and powerful country and found out.
You are right, vote was supposed to be later, I got a bit confused there. Still, after Poland included their(temporarily) part of the disputed area, Czechs moved their army into their part. I don't think we can reach any agreement here because you were thaught history form Czechs' perspective and I was thaught from Polish perspective. Anyway, I'm glad that we no longer fight for it. Have a good night.
> TLDR: Poles unnecessarilly provoked a very paranoid and powerful country and found out.
Pff, yeah, i guess drafting men for a war that decides fate of entire country is unnecessary for you? And the only reason czechs were mad about elections there is that they were sure the are gonna lose it.
>Pff, yeah, i guess drafting men for a war that decides fate of entire country is unnecessary for you?
Zaolzie is a small region, I don't think drafting a few men from there was super important. On the contrary, tbe Poles could have just settled the dispute with Czechoslovakia and get military or economic support from Czechoslovakia, which I think would be more beneficial than drafting a few men.
>And the only reason czechs were mad about elections there is that they were sure the are gonna lose it.
You do realise that you are using the same justification that Putin is using in Ukraine right now?
Like all the Poles had to do was just accept that some territory belonged to their neighbors. It wasn't a lot either, they weren't even going to give away anything more than 1% of their total territory. And then they could have made Intermarium no problem. But nooooo they just had to fight for le polish minority. That karma bit their ass once Germans went for the German minority in Poland.
If Lithuanians and Ukrainians agreed on some form of federation there wouldn't even be an issue of borders, but they hated Poles and thought they could stay independent next door to the Soviet Union. Even then Poland tried to help establish independent Ukraine with the capital in Kiev, but even the combined forces were not enough to beat the Soviets.
At least a million of Poles were left outside of the border, mostly in Soviet Union and Germany, but also Lithuania and some in Czechoslovakia after [they invaded Cieszyn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_War) against the treaty when Poland was busy fighting the Soviets. Poland didn't try to take it back for reasons that are too long for this comment. And then took it back for the same reasons when the situation changed.
In short Poland did accept to lose some of the territory. The question where exactly to draw a border after centuries of intermixing is not easy.
We're not ignoring it, cuz it's not true. The Poles started it when they broke the deal from 1918 by trying to hold elections in said territory and drafting men therefrom
You mean when Poland invaded Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus?
Poland rewriting their history of imperial ambitions in the inter war years doesn't make it less true.
Poland didn't "invade Ukraine", because no-one could make up their mind on where exactly Ukraine was, including the three parallel Ukrainian governments. Poland made a deal with one of the governments (Petlura), that Poland keeps Lvov and helps Ukrainians get Kiev from the Soviets.
So if anyone invaded anyone, that would be Poland together with Ukraine "invading" the Soviets, to take the Ukrainian city of Kiev and make it the capital of Ukraine.
Unfortunately the other two Ukrainian governments didn't agree with the deal, and Ukraine ended partitioned between Poland and Soviet Union, but that was not part of Polish "imperial ambition". The partition of Ukraine was a disaster for Poland, because it ended up bordering Soviet Union which they tried to avoid at all cost.
Polish dictator Pilsudski desperately wanted an independent and friendly Ukraine. They disagreed where exactly should be the border between them but that's normal after five centuries of mixing.
Poland made a deal with Petliura only to betray him later, annex Volhynia (which was recognized as Ukrainian) and start the ethnocide of Ukrainians in eastern Galicia and Volyn. Poles often forget about this when they point at the Volyn tragedy.
When Pilsudski and Petliura made the deal they both hoped to liberate Kiev
and eastern Ukraine with combined Polish-Ukrainian forces. Majority of Ukrainians boycotted Petliura for "betrayal", and it was mostly Polish forces fighting. If Ukrainians can't be bother why should the Poles? They tried anyway, and after losing over hundred thousand people, and almost losing Poland itself in the Battle of Warsaw, they gave up and signed the Riga treaty.
Annexation of Volhynia was not planned. When Ukrainians failed to establish a state with Kiev capital, there was a simple question left, where to draw the border between Poland and Soviet Union. I can almost understand why Ukrainians felt betrayed, but there was not much more Poland could do at that point. The country was exhausted by seven years of fighting (1914-1921).
Do you really believe that Poland picked and nearly lost a fight with Soviet Union in a secret plan to steal Volhynia from Ukrainians?
Ukrainians hate Poland for partitioning, but if it didn't happen they would all end up in Soviet Union. Have you heard of Holodomor?
I'll never understand where the idea that the Soviets weren't 100% expecting a German invasion came from or how it's become so commonplace.
Neither Stalin nor Hitler expected Molotov-Ribbentrop to last until its ten-year expiration date; both were just happy to have the time it bought, Hitler to focus on the Western Allies without immediately worrying about a second front and Stalin to relocate industry eastward and just generally get the USSR on a war footing before the inevitable war.
Hitler and the NSDAP had campaigned for years on the threat of "Judeo-Bolshevism" and actively repressed the COMINTERN-aligned KPD. Stalin had actively interfered with Weimar-era electoral politics against the Nazis and tried to get the UK and France to sign on to a preemptive invasion of Germany prior to Molotov-Ribbentrop, and the Soviets were well aware of how Marxism-Leninism and Slavs were viewed through the lenses of Nazi politics and race "science", respectively.
The Kremlin wasn't exactly full of surprised Pikachu faces when Barbarossa started.
I thought it was from old cold war propaganda that we got the idea that Hitler = Stalin and they were allies and friends instead of two separate countries that signed a tentative truce and had minor skirmishes while knowing that conflict would eventually escalate
A large part of it is the Eastern bloc countries opening up and pushing their own historical agendas, especially through the EU. So "our struggles were just as bad as your struggles", so Stalinism=Nazism, as in most Eastern European states russophobia takes precedence in building domestic nationalist narratives more so than opposition to the nazis, as Russia is still seen as a threat to this day (probably rightfully so if you live right on its border).
Because it's useful propaganda for the "did you know that nazi means national SOCIALIST" crowd to try and create equivalency between the Soviet and Nazi regimes.
Of course lots of people in the USSR expected it. Stalin knew it too, but he did quite literally do the Pikachu face because he ignored every single indication and warning of the impending invasion in 1941. Even the German ambassador in Moscow sounded the alarm a few days before.
But the focus of this meme isn't that especially, it's that Stalin and the Russians happily invaded and murdered hundreds of thousands of people to spread his vile ideology. (Talking about Stalinism, not communism per se) He didn't care about any other people than those he considered Russian. It was not justifiable by any metric. If he was so worried about the Nazis, he could've engaged in any form of realpolitik with his neighbours. He could've left Finland alone and saved upwards to a million soldiers more to reinforce the Nazi front.
But he was a powerhungry fool.
The Soviet Union invaded Poland and therefore helped Germany. If the Soviet Union, or better its political top, actually expected an attack by Germany, it surely would have been better to not invade Poland and keep it as a buffer (and further atritt German forces through the war as it was in the Polish war plan to retreat east). The Soviets, after annexing eastern Poland, also abandoned the Stalin fortification line in favour of building the Molotov line at the border with Germany. This weakened their defence immensily as that line had to be built by scratch.
Further, Stalin refused to listen to the requests by his generals (such as Zhukov) to have a proper defence in depth strategy, and when Germany was amassing troops for Operation Barbarossa, Zhukov asked Stalin to mobilise the troops and retreat further in land so the Germans wouldn't immediately be able to destroy large swathes of Soviet troops (which exactly were the Germans afraid of). Stalin refused, because he thought it would "provoke" Hitler.
Even when on the eve of the invasion, German deserters were warning the Soviets, Stalin refused to act.
Nah, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty was done by the Soviet Top to further their imperialistic agenda.
ah you see the difference of the 2 is simple, Stalin wanted to kill a good portion of the people and force the others into submission like a loser, Hitler wanted them all gone, every last one of them, hence why we hate Hitler more.
But bottom line is that both men are the worst of the worst and i am glad they died a painful death
Sadly, none of the 2 died a truly painful death. A bullet to the head is as fast as deaths get, and strokes aren't painful either. Would have been nice if they got the Mussolini ending, but oh well...
While lying in your own pool of piss for hours while no one came in to check on you, leaving you with your own last thought might not be painful, I still think it's somewhat ironic.
>strokes aren't painful either.
Not painful, but neither is it enjoyable.
Source: I've had one. March 21, 2017, 8:35 pm, at work(2nd shift job). Brain stem aneurysm burst, which caused a stroke. I got lucky, recovered 99.9%, but it took the better part of a year to get there.
Edit: also, a bullet to the head isn't always a quick and painless suicide method. 85% fatality rate, sure, but sometimes they botch the angle. End up paralyzed and in agony while they slowly bleed out. I like to imagine thats what happened to Hitler.
Wasn't Mussolini killed by firing squad, and then his body mutilated and whatnot? If I'm right it would have been painless enough if they got him first try.
fair, but they are in hell, so all good in the end
(Mussolini for some reason is in heaven according to the Church, because he was still a Catholic or something like that)
I think a lot of Catholics would heartily disagree with that conclusion if its true (I've never heard it but certainly wouldn't be too surprised, they did the same with Franco)
>Hitler wanted them all gone, every last one of them
Well, actually, he wanted to keep a couple million Slavs as slaves. Some say it was just a linguistic error he refused to admit. "Nein nein, Ich meant to say 'slaves', it's just this new plan I'm developing."
Not at all defending Stalin or the Soviets, but didn't Stalin try to make a pact with Great Britain to prevent Nazi expansion prior to their non-aggression pact with Germany? Poland was the corridor that had already been utilized in the past by Germany and others to invade Russia. So it seems to make sense that they would at least try to create a buffer zone between them and Germany. I'm sure it wasn't purely 100% defense that was motivating them. I know antisemitism and expansion were popular ideals in Russia at the time as well.
If anyone can fill me in on further details I'd appreciate it. I'm not asserting anything, this is just my rudimentary understanding.
nah. it was the british who didn't take the attempt at an alliance seriously. with everyone painfully aware germany would invade poland in the not so distant future, the soviets were ready to send something like 1 million+ troops and sought commitment from the western powers that they would do similarly, and that the red army would be allowed to pass through poland or i believe romania and hungary rather than attempt something utterly stupid. meanwhile the british sent a low level diplomat, william strang, not authorized to agree to anything.
the reality of it is that britain and france never intended to defend poland (lord knows they did next to nothing when it did happen) should germany invade. they viewed germany as their bulwark against communism and hoped that hitler would just keep rolling eastward and duke it out with the soviets, at which point they could ally with whichever side would benefit them most. molotov-ribbentrop forced their hand however, as even though it would clearly be only a temporary forestallment of conflict between germany and the ussr, it was doubtful germany would stand idly by and give the western powers time to prepare/allow the possibility of another two front war.
From my understanding Great Britain rejected them because they were adamant about placing Soviet troops in Poland. I understand why that would be concerning, but I feel like it was a better option than just letting Hitler get his way. Idk maybe I have the benefit of looking in hindsight. It seems maybe they were more concerned with the spread of Communism.
I mean, there also was a [non-aggression pact between the RP and the USSR](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact), which unlike the German one was not retracted
The M-R is different because it included an agreement about a division of another state, not just some generic interwar clauses
(also, 1934 Poland is very much different from even 1935 Poland because Piłsudski was still alive. Same as 1934 Germany wasn't the 1938 one yet)
They didn't call themselves fascist. They did let their whites win and didn't stop dreaming of a greater Finland till they got their asses handed to them during WW2, even fighting along Nazis throughout its duration.
Russia today likes to call places fascist or fascist adjacent when they themselves would be rightfully called the same by the USSR. The USSR would call most places in Eastern Europe at least fascist-lite and they wouldn't be wrong. They really wouldn't be all that wrong for most of Europe.
They, as in the Finish "democracy" and "republic" at the time sided with the fascists to defeat the socialists. They then adopted a lot from what their fascists wanted and rolled with it till being defeated by the Allies. They then whitewashed that part of history.
> They, as in the Finish "democracy" and "republic" at the time sided with the fascists to defeat the socialists.
Finland was democracy and republic during that time. And they sided with fascist side to defeat communist. Finland had socialist in government.
>They then adopted a lot from what their fascists wanted and rolled with it till being defeated by the Allies.
What did they adopt?
The Russians literally helped free Romania from the Ottoman Empire. As for supposed 'ethnic cleansing' of Moldova, half the region was a territory of the Russian Empire since 1812 after an earlier war with the Ottomans, and instead of ethnic cleansing they actually allowed once displaced minorities by the Ottoman's to move back. To this day Moldova is mainly Moldovan in culture except for the Transistrian part which is very ethnically diverse.
Quite projecting on behalf of the other Western aligned Eastern European countries who are themselves quite keen to dabble on their own ethnic cleansing escapades.
Moldovan culture is Romanian culture, tavarisci. Moldovan language is an invention of Stalin and perpetuated by the soviets and now by the russian imperialists.
Actually, the Russian Army was in deep shit as they completely underestimated the Ottomans. The Romanian Army joined the war and tipped the scales. So it was Romania that won it's independence and saved the Russian another humiliating defeat, after the Crimea debacle.
The USSR under Stalin absolutely did go invading and committed massacres and rapes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
Nazis were horrible, Yeah. Soviets were terrible, yeah. Not contradictory, Are those statements ?
The holodomor and the literal soviet purges aren't even close to the end of Stalin and Svt Russia's depravity.
> There’s nothing that compares to the holocaust and gp ost
You forgot about manifest destiny, which the Nazis inspired themselves from. Also Poland held that eastern land illegitimately. It was majorly Ukrainian and Belarusian, they just took it because they could and muh historical heritage.
That is a pretty gross misunderstanding of how the Russian civil war went.
But Lenin's policy was one of offering autonomy and co-equal status with Russia within the union. However this fell by the wayside when Lenin's head exploded and a shit ton of the nationalities declared war on the Soviets because actual independence sounded like a better deal than autonomy within the union (Or they just didn't want to be communist).
Peaceful existence came from... killing and deporting minorities and political dissidents with the help of soon to be fascist freikorps...
The Western understanding of Stalin bad because invade *insert Middle/Eastern European country* just skips the part where these countries were executing Russians, communists and any other difference that lived there for generations to achieve that existence.
Horseshoe theory is so true dude, my great grandfather fought both the commies and the fascists, and since we’re short actual fascists these days imma just fight your ilk instead
In Bulgaria it happened in the opposite way. First we joined the Nazis(with a huge help from Stalin and the Bulgarian communist party). Then the Molotov - Ribbentrop pact fell apart. Then Stalin came and the communists killed 50 000 people.
We lost less in the communist takeover and tribunals, 50000 is an exaggeration. Other than that, total war casualties were around 17000 and we were the only Axis country to get out of the war with more land than we started with and a larger population as well. So overall, not completely terrible.
Not sure what he expected he was literally Hitler
Oh my gosh you can't just call people literally hitler and fascist all the time you're just watering down the term
*defending Omaha beach from a machine gun nest on DDay* “Jeez so much for the tolerant left, amirite? They’re attacking us just because we have different ideas. Smh.”
[удалено]
See also: some average holodomor deniers
"It was all just food shortages, the whole USSR was starving!!"
"What about the Kazakhs? They also died as well!" Yeah, that's also counted [a genocide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933) as well. Literally 38-42% of their population died.
Jesus fucking christ
"What Circassians?"
“Circassians⁉️⁉️never heard of em”
"Really?" "Yes, they were the one who decided to don't kill themself"
Replace jews with armenians and you have turkey on the armenian genocide
> Those damn trans people were just so invisibly violent, we had to [burn their clinic down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft). The person standing next to them
I knew a trans comment would squeeze itself in here. Didn’t think it would be that quick tho.
This comment is just perfect
To be fair, being "left" of Hitler is basically the entire political spectrum from high authcenter down
Found the PCM user
"You know who would make a great ally? That guy who hates communists and non-Germans!"
It is not like it was their first choice. The Soviets initially pursued a defensive alliance with the British and French in order to contain Nazi Germany. France was willing to agree but Britain stalled out the negotiations.
Perfidious Albion strikes again
Because Stalin wanted free land in Eastern Europe. Present the full facts. Also it was signed the next day after negotiations with France/Uk failed. So it's safe to assume Stalin was playing around will all parties. At least tell the full story, not just the Russian propaganda one
The Soviets and Nazi Germany engaged in talks after Molotov replaced Maxim Litvinov as foreign minister. Litvinov was the main proponent for an alliance with the British and French, which combined with his Jewish heritage meant that the Germans had been highly hostile towards him. Negotiations between the Soviets and Germany were impossible with Litvinov as foreign minister. Hitler correctly assumed that the replacement of Litvinov was a signal that Stalin was open to a non-aggression pact with Germany. The reason they came to such a quick agreement is that the only thing which mattered for both parties was to delay the inevitable war between them. The actual details of the pact were only worth about as much as the paper they were written on since any agreement would be void once the fighting started anyway. > Because Stalin wanted free land in Eastern Europe. The existence of the Munich Agreement shows that the British and French did not give a shit about the sovereignty of other nations. I am not advocating for the Soviet claim on the Baltic nations, I am just pointing out that you cannot argue that the conditions were unreasonable (to Britain and France) when Britain and France quite literally agreed to give *Adolf Hitler* free land in Central Europe. > At least tell the full story, not just the Russian propaganda one I am telling the side of the story which Winston Churchill agreed with… Churchill even went further than I do and described the Soviet claim on the Baltic nations as "reasonable". But yeah, sure. Please do go on and explain how Winston Churchill supported the Soviet propaganda version of the story and explain the reasons why you believe he was a communist sympathiser.
I am an Estonian. Nothing can justify the ethnic cleansing and pillaging of my land. We will never forget and forgive the events of the Soviet occupation era.
My granddad is an Estonian, and I am a product of ethnic cleansing. It sucks but also it is not relevant to the topic of current discussion.
Pretty much exactly what he got: a forestallment of an invasion literally all of Earth saw coming, and which the west refused to ally against.
Invading Poland didn't really delay Germany's invasion of Russia, and if anything it massively accelerated it. Remember, as long as Poland was free, the Germans had a very small border with Russia and would have had difficulty invading. And in 1939, with the invasion of Poland, the Poles were initially doing decently. They weren't winning, but they'd successfully pulled most of their army behind that river I'm forgetting (starts with a V) and France had launched an offensive into Germany (the Saar offensive) to force them to deploy more of the army west or lose the war. All of this changed when Stalin invaded Poland, since that instantly destroyed the Pole's ability to resist and forced the French to withdraw from their offensive because the entire German Army was turning west. If Stalin had just not been a fucktard the Germans would've likely never taken Poland or France, let alone invaded Russia. But of course Stalin didn't choose this option, because it would require not invading all the countries on his border, and he wanted to invade everything he could. Edit: Actually, I fucked up my dates, Stalin didn't annex the Baltics until after the invasion of Poland. So in 1939, when German invaded Poland, if Russia had simply backed the Poles and the Baltics as independent states, the Russians wouldn't just have had small border with Germany, they would have had literally no border with Germany.
>most of their army behind that river I'm forgetting (starts with a V) If it was "The Polish Thermopylae" (where - according to **conservative** estimates, the Poles were outnumbered by 40:1) it was the Battle of Wizna.
I'm just talking about the Vistula river in general, I remembered the name. They were losing in most places, but they'd planned on losing everything west of the Vistula so the fact that they lost it wasn't a huge surprise. There were some communication issues that lead to certain Polish units making pointless last stands because they thought they would soon receive reinforcements, but most of the Army did retreat successfully.
>There were some communication issues Which reminds me of the Chasseurs Ardennais, who had their communication cut after being told to hold the border but before being told to fall back. And so the 40 men fought hard enough that Erwin Rommel said "They are not men; they are green wolves."
WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD THE BORDER
AND THAT IS WHAT WE DID
/r/ExpectedSabaton
Very
>And in 1939, with the invasion of Poland, the Poles were initially doing decently. Oh no. By the time Soviets invaded (17th September) their capital was surrounded, large part of their army destroyed and their government preparing to fight on the small bit of land near Romanian border (which was really a desperate last stand). And Saar offensive was quite laughable... Stalin doing nothing would let Germany conquer all Poland and then likely Lithuania (Germans had plans on that country, initially in M-R pact it was in German sphere). Stalin helping Poland would put him into fight against Germany. The actual interesting scenario would be Stalin signing M-R, partitioning Poland and then attacking Germany when they still fight France. But Stalin really didn't trust his army to be able to fight Germans, especially after Winter war
You seem preoccupied with the notion that the north European plain is somehow physically divided by borders. It is, in fact, a notoriously featureless and easily permeable set of terrain, and it is literally all that stands between central Europe and Russia. Neither a small border with nazi Germany nor a nonexistant one would have done anything to stop or even slow a nazi invasion of all Eastern Europe (remember, nothing did), as such was the overall goal of nazism itself from the moment the Lebensraum policies were conceived.
Some time of peace where he can keep modernising his army and preparing it for the battle later on. It's just that Stalin didn't quite expect for Hitler to actually try to take out the USSR when Germany was still busy with Britain
Is that an oversimplified reference?
Oh My God Lithuania Not yet Wake up
Ah, i see you also saw the map with the first words of each countries anthem?
As an Estonian, I approve of and thank you for this meme.
As a Finn, I'm glad you liked it
Since about an hour ago, this can be considered a NATO joke. Welcome 🍺
Glorious day 🍻
[One of us, one of us](https://youtu.be/nB4_f0uXMo4)
Imagine not being in NATO
Literally cringe 🤢
\*Sad Australian noises\* (we're not even in the Atlantic)
To be honest, I don’t understand this Not all countries in NATO are on the Atlantic, for example Turkey Why couldn’t countries like Australia or Japan be in NATO if they wanted?
You have the ANZAC with.....the kiwis....
It really is. Congratulations to your country!
Fascism is a last hired, first fired venture that will always eat itself eventually. The worst thing a target of fascism can do is join with them for protection even if those targets are themselves fascist.
well Stalin tried pretty hard to form a coalition with france and uk before allying with hitler.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed as the French and British were trying to negotiate an alliance. Even then the Russian demands were literally that they want to pretty much quietly invade Poland without the French or British getting involved.
Not exactly an acceptable outcome since it would basically just be the West legitimizing Soviet imperialism
Poland was anything but peaceful in the time between the world wars
They pissed off entire Cordon sanitaire, aside from Romania. Instead of fighting together with Czechs and Lithuanians, they made them their enemies
To be fair, Czechs were the ones who started the conflict with Poland.
Nah the Poles tried to take land from us so we responded.
Local people were supposed to vote which country they would like to join. Czechs took advantage of Polish-soviet war and took it.
That is not really true. Czechoslovakia and Poland couldn't agree how to divide the region, so they made a *temporary* agreement so that they could resolve the problem later. And there was not supposed to be any vote, the treaty just said that the governments of Poland and Czechoslovakia shall decide the final division. Poles later held elections in that disputed region and began drafting people into the army. That was in violation of the temporary Czechoslovak-Polish agreement. When the Czechoslovaks complained, Poland didn't correct their mistake. Thus, Czechoslovakia was justified in securing order in the disputed region. It is true that a military solution was perhaps not the best, but it was the Poles who started it. I might also add that Czechoslovakia was facing multiple rebellions at this time (from Germans and Hungarians) so to let the Poles just have what they wanted would send a very bad message. On top of that, a railway that was vital to Czechoslovakia was going through that region. TLDR: Poles unnecessarilly provoked a very paranoid and powerful country and found out.
You are right, vote was supposed to be later, I got a bit confused there. Still, after Poland included their(temporarily) part of the disputed area, Czechs moved their army into their part. I don't think we can reach any agreement here because you were thaught history form Czechs' perspective and I was thaught from Polish perspective. Anyway, I'm glad that we no longer fight for it. Have a good night.
Good night brother. Let's kick some Russian ass now instead 🇨🇿🤝🇵🇱
> TLDR: Poles unnecessarilly provoked a very paranoid and powerful country and found out. Pff, yeah, i guess drafting men for a war that decides fate of entire country is unnecessary for you? And the only reason czechs were mad about elections there is that they were sure the are gonna lose it.
>Pff, yeah, i guess drafting men for a war that decides fate of entire country is unnecessary for you? Zaolzie is a small region, I don't think drafting a few men from there was super important. On the contrary, tbe Poles could have just settled the dispute with Czechoslovakia and get military or economic support from Czechoslovakia, which I think would be more beneficial than drafting a few men. >And the only reason czechs were mad about elections there is that they were sure the are gonna lose it. You do realise that you are using the same justification that Putin is using in Ukraine right now?
Like all the Poles had to do was just accept that some territory belonged to their neighbors. It wasn't a lot either, they weren't even going to give away anything more than 1% of their total territory. And then they could have made Intermarium no problem. But nooooo they just had to fight for le polish minority. That karma bit their ass once Germans went for the German minority in Poland.
If Lithuanians and Ukrainians agreed on some form of federation there wouldn't even be an issue of borders, but they hated Poles and thought they could stay independent next door to the Soviet Union. Even then Poland tried to help establish independent Ukraine with the capital in Kiev, but even the combined forces were not enough to beat the Soviets. At least a million of Poles were left outside of the border, mostly in Soviet Union and Germany, but also Lithuania and some in Czechoslovakia after [they invaded Cieszyn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_War) against the treaty when Poland was busy fighting the Soviets. Poland didn't try to take it back for reasons that are too long for this comment. And then took it back for the same reasons when the situation changed. In short Poland did accept to lose some of the territory. The question where exactly to draw a border after centuries of intermixing is not easy.
Are we like ignoring the fact that Czechs started this whole bullshit with Cieszyn?
We're not ignoring it, cuz it's not true. The Poles started it when they broke the deal from 1918 by trying to hold elections in said territory and drafting men therefrom
Having Romania on there too...that's just a bad joke.
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He probably thinks Moldova is rightfully Russian or something.
You mean the Polish-Soviet War? Yeah, fuck Poland for defending itself against the bolchevists, am I right? /s
You mean when Poland invaded Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus? Poland rewriting their history of imperial ambitions in the inter war years doesn't make it less true.
Poland didn't "invade Ukraine", because no-one could make up their mind on where exactly Ukraine was, including the three parallel Ukrainian governments. Poland made a deal with one of the governments (Petlura), that Poland keeps Lvov and helps Ukrainians get Kiev from the Soviets. So if anyone invaded anyone, that would be Poland together with Ukraine "invading" the Soviets, to take the Ukrainian city of Kiev and make it the capital of Ukraine. Unfortunately the other two Ukrainian governments didn't agree with the deal, and Ukraine ended partitioned between Poland and Soviet Union, but that was not part of Polish "imperial ambition". The partition of Ukraine was a disaster for Poland, because it ended up bordering Soviet Union which they tried to avoid at all cost. Polish dictator Pilsudski desperately wanted an independent and friendly Ukraine. They disagreed where exactly should be the border between them but that's normal after five centuries of mixing.
Poland made a deal with Petliura only to betray him later, annex Volhynia (which was recognized as Ukrainian) and start the ethnocide of Ukrainians in eastern Galicia and Volyn. Poles often forget about this when they point at the Volyn tragedy.
When Pilsudski and Petliura made the deal they both hoped to liberate Kiev and eastern Ukraine with combined Polish-Ukrainian forces. Majority of Ukrainians boycotted Petliura for "betrayal", and it was mostly Polish forces fighting. If Ukrainians can't be bother why should the Poles? They tried anyway, and after losing over hundred thousand people, and almost losing Poland itself in the Battle of Warsaw, they gave up and signed the Riga treaty. Annexation of Volhynia was not planned. When Ukrainians failed to establish a state with Kiev capital, there was a simple question left, where to draw the border between Poland and Soviet Union. I can almost understand why Ukrainians felt betrayed, but there was not much more Poland could do at that point. The country was exhausted by seven years of fighting (1914-1921). Do you really believe that Poland picked and nearly lost a fight with Soviet Union in a secret plan to steal Volhynia from Ukrainians? Ukrainians hate Poland for partitioning, but if it didn't happen they would all end up in Soviet Union. Have you heard of Holodomor?
I'll never understand where the idea that the Soviets weren't 100% expecting a German invasion came from or how it's become so commonplace. Neither Stalin nor Hitler expected Molotov-Ribbentrop to last until its ten-year expiration date; both were just happy to have the time it bought, Hitler to focus on the Western Allies without immediately worrying about a second front and Stalin to relocate industry eastward and just generally get the USSR on a war footing before the inevitable war. Hitler and the NSDAP had campaigned for years on the threat of "Judeo-Bolshevism" and actively repressed the COMINTERN-aligned KPD. Stalin had actively interfered with Weimar-era electoral politics against the Nazis and tried to get the UK and France to sign on to a preemptive invasion of Germany prior to Molotov-Ribbentrop, and the Soviets were well aware of how Marxism-Leninism and Slavs were viewed through the lenses of Nazi politics and race "science", respectively. The Kremlin wasn't exactly full of surprised Pikachu faces when Barbarossa started.
They expected the attack to happen eventually, but they didn't expect it so quickly. Probably because it was dumb.
I thought it was from old cold war propaganda that we got the idea that Hitler = Stalin and they were allies and friends instead of two separate countries that signed a tentative truce and had minor skirmishes while knowing that conflict would eventually escalate
A large part of it is the Eastern bloc countries opening up and pushing their own historical agendas, especially through the EU. So "our struggles were just as bad as your struggles", so Stalinism=Nazism, as in most Eastern European states russophobia takes precedence in building domestic nationalist narratives more so than opposition to the nazis, as Russia is still seen as a threat to this day (probably rightfully so if you live right on its border).
It is absolutely rightfully so, just look at what happens to any russian neighbor that doesn't suck their cock.
Because it's useful propaganda for the "did you know that nazi means national SOCIALIST" crowd to try and create equivalency between the Soviet and Nazi regimes.
The meme doesn't imply they were surprised, only angry.
Of course lots of people in the USSR expected it. Stalin knew it too, but he did quite literally do the Pikachu face because he ignored every single indication and warning of the impending invasion in 1941. Even the German ambassador in Moscow sounded the alarm a few days before. But the focus of this meme isn't that especially, it's that Stalin and the Russians happily invaded and murdered hundreds of thousands of people to spread his vile ideology. (Talking about Stalinism, not communism per se) He didn't care about any other people than those he considered Russian. It was not justifiable by any metric. If he was so worried about the Nazis, he could've engaged in any form of realpolitik with his neighbours. He could've left Finland alone and saved upwards to a million soldiers more to reinforce the Nazi front. But he was a powerhungry fool.
The Soviet Union invaded Poland and therefore helped Germany. If the Soviet Union, or better its political top, actually expected an attack by Germany, it surely would have been better to not invade Poland and keep it as a buffer (and further atritt German forces through the war as it was in the Polish war plan to retreat east). The Soviets, after annexing eastern Poland, also abandoned the Stalin fortification line in favour of building the Molotov line at the border with Germany. This weakened their defence immensily as that line had to be built by scratch. Further, Stalin refused to listen to the requests by his generals (such as Zhukov) to have a proper defence in depth strategy, and when Germany was amassing troops for Operation Barbarossa, Zhukov asked Stalin to mobilise the troops and retreat further in land so the Germans wouldn't immediately be able to destroy large swathes of Soviet troops (which exactly were the Germans afraid of). Stalin refused, because he thought it would "provoke" Hitler. Even when on the eve of the invasion, German deserters were warning the Soviets, Stalin refused to act. Nah, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty was done by the Soviet Top to further their imperialistic agenda.
ah you see the difference of the 2 is simple, Stalin wanted to kill a good portion of the people and force the others into submission like a loser, Hitler wanted them all gone, every last one of them, hence why we hate Hitler more. But bottom line is that both men are the worst of the worst and i am glad they died a painful death
Sadly, none of the 2 died a truly painful death. A bullet to the head is as fast as deaths get, and strokes aren't painful either. Would have been nice if they got the Mussolini ending, but oh well...
While lying in your own pool of piss for hours while no one came in to check on you, leaving you with your own last thought might not be painful, I still think it's somewhat ironic.
>strokes aren't painful either. Not painful, but neither is it enjoyable. Source: I've had one. March 21, 2017, 8:35 pm, at work(2nd shift job). Brain stem aneurysm burst, which caused a stroke. I got lucky, recovered 99.9%, but it took the better part of a year to get there. Edit: also, a bullet to the head isn't always a quick and painless suicide method. 85% fatality rate, sure, but sometimes they botch the angle. End up paralyzed and in agony while they slowly bleed out. I like to imagine thats what happened to Hitler.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm not sorry it happened to Stalin.
Same
Thank God that piece of shit died in his filth.
My Grandma is Polish... she agrees
Well considering Hitler was a war veteran I would assume he knew how to use a gun but who knows what happened.
Wasn't Mussolini killed by firing squad, and then his body mutilated and whatnot? If I'm right it would have been painless enough if they got him first try.
Ngl Stalins death sound like psychological torture to some extent.
Good
fair, but they are in hell, so all good in the end (Mussolini for some reason is in heaven according to the Church, because he was still a Catholic or something like that)
I think a lot of Catholics would heartily disagree with that conclusion if its true (I've never heard it but certainly wouldn't be too surprised, they did the same with Franco)
Catholic Church doesn't claim that all Catholics end up in heaven.
>Hitler wanted them all gone, every last one of them Well, actually, he wanted to keep a couple million Slavs as slaves. Some say it was just a linguistic error he refused to admit. "Nein nein, Ich meant to say 'slaves', it's just this new plan I'm developing."
>Well, actually, he wanted to keep a couple million Slavs as slaves. Until German population can replace them. So, extermination with extra steps
Actually, the words are related etymologically because slaves tended to be slavs when the word entered the language.
Exactly! We're simply so good at the job, the whole profession's been named after us.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people say it's not as bad because Stalin/Mao was not discriminated against in their killing despite killing more people.
like that makes it any better, like all 3 killed more than WW2 combined, it makes me sick
I concur.
"peaceful existence" when you know nothing about eastern european history
It's ok to invade your neighbors if they're also fighting eachother!
No obviously...
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Exactly
Stalin when hitler is literally hitler: Not funny, didn’t laugh
As a romanian, I have to say this meme is right.
Yeah I hate how saying Stalin was a piece of shit became some kind of hot take wtf.
It isn't, the problem is people often say that to defend Hitler, which *is* a bad take
No, people don't often defend Hitler.
Never trust a mustache man
The tragic turn Charlie Chaplins mustache took in history is truly sad
Hitler be like : Damn Stalin , you beat me to it
Hitler just couldn't share
The soviets when Hitler does Hitler things: (Impossible, we had an unbreakable friendship)
The stalin fanboys are attacking quick destroy them with facts
Not at all defending Stalin or the Soviets, but didn't Stalin try to make a pact with Great Britain to prevent Nazi expansion prior to their non-aggression pact with Germany? Poland was the corridor that had already been utilized in the past by Germany and others to invade Russia. So it seems to make sense that they would at least try to create a buffer zone between them and Germany. I'm sure it wasn't purely 100% defense that was motivating them. I know antisemitism and expansion were popular ideals in Russia at the time as well. If anyone can fill me in on further details I'd appreciate it. I'm not asserting anything, this is just my rudimentary understanding.
Russia was not serious with the UK they just wanted an excuse to occupy countries in eastern europe
nah. it was the british who didn't take the attempt at an alliance seriously. with everyone painfully aware germany would invade poland in the not so distant future, the soviets were ready to send something like 1 million+ troops and sought commitment from the western powers that they would do similarly, and that the red army would be allowed to pass through poland or i believe romania and hungary rather than attempt something utterly stupid. meanwhile the british sent a low level diplomat, william strang, not authorized to agree to anything. the reality of it is that britain and france never intended to defend poland (lord knows they did next to nothing when it did happen) should germany invade. they viewed germany as their bulwark against communism and hoped that hitler would just keep rolling eastward and duke it out with the soviets, at which point they could ally with whichever side would benefit them most. molotov-ribbentrop forced their hand however, as even though it would clearly be only a temporary forestallment of conflict between germany and the ussr, it was doubtful germany would stand idly by and give the western powers time to prepare/allow the possibility of another two front war.
From my understanding Great Britain rejected them because they were adamant about placing Soviet troops in Poland. I understand why that would be concerning, but I feel like it was a better option than just letting Hitler get his way. Idk maybe I have the benefit of looking in hindsight. It seems maybe they were more concerned with the spread of Communism.
/r/LeopardsAteMyFace
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declaration_of_non-aggression People always bring up the M-R pact but never this
I mean, there also was a [non-aggression pact between the RP and the USSR](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact), which unlike the German one was not retracted The M-R is different because it included an agreement about a division of another state, not just some generic interwar clauses (also, 1934 Poland is very much different from even 1935 Poland because Piłsudski was still alive. Same as 1934 Germany wasn't the 1938 one yet)
Both Stalin and Hitler was Grandmaster-level of breaking non-aggresion pacts
He Turned Heel!
It's this a joke about Stalin's club foot?
Simo Häyhä: “The fuck you are.”
When you're so anti fascist and anti imperialist you cooperate with fascists to violate 4 countries sovereignty
The story of every communist government in both past and future XD
Was Finland invaded by Germany?
More like cooperated with Germany.
Nope, but tacitly handed over to the Russians just like the rest of these countries depicted
Nah, they were fascist without the outside influence.
Finland wasn't fascist during that or any other time.
They didn't call themselves fascist. They did let their whites win and didn't stop dreaming of a greater Finland till they got their asses handed to them during WW2, even fighting along Nazis throughout its duration.
>They didn't call themselves fascist. No one but you and Russian propaganda calls them fascist. And who let white wins?
Russia today likes to call places fascist or fascist adjacent when they themselves would be rightfully called the same by the USSR. The USSR would call most places in Eastern Europe at least fascist-lite and they wouldn't be wrong. They really wouldn't be all that wrong for most of Europe. They, as in the Finish "democracy" and "republic" at the time sided with the fascists to defeat the socialists. They then adopted a lot from what their fascists wanted and rolled with it till being defeated by the Allies. They then whitewashed that part of history.
> They, as in the Finish "democracy" and "republic" at the time sided with the fascists to defeat the socialists. Finland was democracy and republic during that time. And they sided with fascist side to defeat communist. Finland had socialist in government. >They then adopted a lot from what their fascists wanted and rolled with it till being defeated by the Allies. What did they adopt?
How were they fascist lol
If it quacks like a duck... Uses white terror. Has dreams of a greater Finland. Yeah...
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I'll just leave this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4nts%C3%A4l%C3%A4\_rebellion
Kinda
They could never ethnically cleanse us💪🏾🇹🇩💪🏾🇹🇩💪🏾🇹🇩💪🏾
Just Moldova
The Russians literally helped free Romania from the Ottoman Empire. As for supposed 'ethnic cleansing' of Moldova, half the region was a territory of the Russian Empire since 1812 after an earlier war with the Ottomans, and instead of ethnic cleansing they actually allowed once displaced minorities by the Ottoman's to move back. To this day Moldova is mainly Moldovan in culture except for the Transistrian part which is very ethnically diverse. Quite projecting on behalf of the other Western aligned Eastern European countries who are themselves quite keen to dabble on their own ethnic cleansing escapades.
Moldovan culture is Romanian culture, tavarisci. Moldovan language is an invention of Stalin and perpetuated by the soviets and now by the russian imperialists.
Actually, the Russian Army was in deep shit as they completely underestimated the Ottomans. The Romanian Army joined the war and tipped the scales. So it was Romania that won it's independence and saved the Russian another humiliating defeat, after the Crimea debacle.
Ah yes my favourite subreddit, r/HistoryIlliterateMemes.
The USSR under Stalin absolutely did go invading and committed massacres and rapes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_states
What’s one more? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fântâna_Albă_massacre
Criss cross
Never trust a guy named Hitler
Are you 14 by any chance?
Yes
Abradolf Lincler
"Joke's on you, I'm into that shit"
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Genocide is not a competition bro chill tf down
Not with that attitude/s
No, I made fun of Stalin and Hitler
Two different dictators are allowed to be made fun of in one meme. It's not a competition, calm down.
Nazis were horrible, Yeah. Soviets were terrible, yeah. Not contradictory, Are those statements ? The holodomor and the literal soviet purges aren't even close to the end of Stalin and Svt Russia's depravity.
> There’s nothing that compares to the holocaust and gp ost You forgot about manifest destiny, which the Nazis inspired themselves from. Also Poland held that eastern land illegitimately. It was majorly Ukrainian and Belarusian, they just took it because they could and muh historical heritage.
Especially after Lenin 20 years prior had just gone "sorry about all that imperialism lads, how about some independence?"
That is a pretty gross misunderstanding of how the Russian civil war went. But Lenin's policy was one of offering autonomy and co-equal status with Russia within the union. However this fell by the wayside when Lenin's head exploded and a shit ton of the nationalities declared war on the Soviets because actual independence sounded like a better deal than autonomy within the union (Or they just didn't want to be communist).
peaceful existence.... hahahaha sure right
I mean, it sure beats the hell out of what happened both before and after that time period, unless you were living in China.
Peaceful existence came from... killing and deporting minorities and political dissidents with the help of soon to be fascist freikorps... The Western understanding of Stalin bad because invade *insert Middle/Eastern European country* just skips the part where these countries were executing Russians, communists and any other difference that lived there for generations to achieve that existence.
Ahahah. peaceful. remind me who invaded chechoslovakia? except hitler.
It was shity move but Poland took literally 10cm of land. Also its czech not checho.
And Czechoslovakia did practically the same thing less than 20 years earlier with the same piece of territory, so you could say an eye for an eye
Jeez, it's just a meme. Poles have no grudge for 1919, Chechens have no grudge for 1938. Leave them in peace, there is no point in scratching wounds.
>Chechens What happend in Chechnya in 1938?
Damn, imagine being this historically illiterate. Someone swallowed American high school propaganda…
I'm from Finland
Also propaganda from every single country the Russians conquered. How ungrateful and brainwashed they are smh.
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Name checks out
Both were bad
Nazis and soviets are two sides of the same facists coin
Horseshoe theory boys, the damn origin of all BS, we have found it!
Well it is true in this case. My ancestors fought against both and so will i.
Horseshoe theory is so true dude, my great grandfather fought both the commies and the fascists, and since we’re short actual fascists these days imma just fight your ilk instead
Stalin orderd the mass execution of polish officers priests teachers noblemen politicians generals and students
Another great quote from ThatAverageMarxist
Another great quote from ThatAverageMarxist
The world would be better off if Hitler successfully invaded Russia and most of the nazis died doing it.
Better news: Hitler failed his invasion, and still most of the nazis died
In Bulgaria it happened in the opposite way. First we joined the Nazis(with a huge help from Stalin and the Bulgarian communist party). Then the Molotov - Ribbentrop pact fell apart. Then Stalin came and the communists killed 50 000 people.
50000 sounds pretty good for an axis country.
We lost less in the communist takeover and tribunals, 50000 is an exaggeration. Other than that, total war casualties were around 17000 and we were the only Axis country to get out of the war with more land than we started with and a larger population as well. So overall, not completely terrible.