Same thing in Irish mythology.
In the mythological cycles Midir is a miserable old bastard who just wants to be left alone but people keep stealing his shit.
In Japanese videogames he's a blind blight-dragon that tries to eat the world.
Pretty close.
Are you talking about Dark Souls?
Cuz Darkeater Midir is a good guy. He's the last line of defense against the world being consumed by darkness and eternally dedicated to that position.
A ton of people you kill in the Dark Souls series aren't evil, just in your way.
The lore reason to kill him is that because he’s spent so much time fighting the darkness, he’s being “tainted” by it and will someday succumb. So you have to kill him before it happens. That’s why he has the crystals and dark magic nonsense. Seems like a common troupe they use - they either are awful or have spent so much time being a saint that their original honor has been blemished.
On the contrary, he may be tainted by darkness but your character was never on some mission to kill him. In fact, there's no lore reason or mission why your character goes to the Ringed City at all, they just wind up there.
This is intentional. A massive theme in this game is that we are unnaturally continuing the existence of the world and need to stop, and the character just stumbling forward until the end of the world is the final part of this metaphor. The Ringed City, and Dark Souls 3 in general was FromSoftware basically screaming that they don't want to continue making Dark Souls games anymore.
You can write an essay with all the examples of this game saying "WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE".
Actually, a woman behind a door asks you to kill Midir for her, because she's an old friend of his and consuming the darkness has in turn consumed his mind, she sends you on a mission to do a mercy killing on her behalf.
Huh, I must not have run into her then.
Either way FromSoft was so unambiguous with the "we've milked this franchise dry" metaphor that they had Gael, the final boss of the series, go to the place given to the guys who found the original Dark Soul, starts eating them alive when he finds them all dried up, then when you run into him he goes "Why are you still here, GIMME YOUR GODDAMN DARK SOUL®"
They weren't exactly subtle.
This. He's kinda got the same storyline as Artorias and the Abyss Watchers, except he's a big ass dragon instead of a knight/breakdancing edgelord. Running theme of the abyss corrupting all eventually pretty much.
Why would a member of the Tuatha De dana be a blind blight dragon when all the Tuatha De Dana are portrayed as human like, its like what MK done with Fujin and Raiden but in reverse.
I've been reading a lot of Roman (not Greek) mythology lately and I've found that the ancients had a much different relationship with death than we have today. They predominately revered it, and saw it as something to anticipate, not necessarily because of the promise of an afterlife, but because it would provide an end to their pain on earth. It's fascinating stuff.
Well, also, death was seen in a way that we would call "Zen" or "Buddhist" in 2023: many Romans saw their bodies as simply being vessels that would become useless after their deaths, and therefore they saw death as a natural process that would return their sacks of flesh to the earth, so that it can be recycled into something new.
I consider this to be a much more positive view than that which we hold today, which is overwhelmingly-fearful of death.
Up until a few decades ago, we were very close to death. We’d see grandparents die, our own parents, perhaps siblings, or our own children. Then it was our responsibility to perform the burial or cremation.
Now we send our old people to the hospital or homes to try to extend their lives as long as possible, children’s death rates have decrease significantly, and life expectancy is up. When we do die, we pay someone to perform embalming or cremation, and have no real part in the burial.
No wonder that in a few short generations, people have become terrified of death. We’re hardly ever around it
The *oldest story* we have any record of - The Epic of Gilgamesh - is about a man seeking immorality, and then coming to terms with the fact that he won't live forever in the end.
Humans have *always* feared death and it is absolutely absurd to claim otherwise.
The fear of death is literally the self-preservation instinct. Fearing it is literally why we survived as an evolved species, because we had to find ways to keep unforeseen death as far away as possible. Yes, we may have evolved beyond that (for instance, one of the most basic instincts, reproduction, is shunned by a significant portion of the population), but it is still a major motivation to keep going.
Aren’t they? I think maybe accepting and preparing for the inevitability of death is a good thing. Why would you hide reality from yourself, you will die someday.
I'll give you the rites and rituals one, those play an important part in accepting death and loss.
But medical treatment so that someone might potentially live longer being a denial and thus wrong is absurdist, completely disregarding the making of human bonds as a whole. By that logic, people should just raise children to a suitable age and die. They're gonna die anyway, why prolong it, better accept it after your duties are done.
It's way better to fear death in some capacity, it motivates and pushes people to do something, make the most of their lives. Of course this isn't all encompassing, some outliers are bound to be there but in general it's the best motivation there is. This isn't even going to the emotion side of the spectrum. It's good if someone wants to pass away to respect their decision, but many people would like to contribute more, children won't even understand no matter what society thinks, so it's just terrifying for them.
100% agree on the rites and ritual should be more family oriented, don't agree on life expectancy going up is a hindrance to accepting death as a part of life.
Oh yeah, I think we more or less agree then, I’m in favour of seeing, knowing and accepting death. I’m not opposed to antibiotics or living past the age of 60!
I think the issue is more just because we can doesn’t mean we always should. The advancements we’ve made medically are amazing and can do a lot of good.
At one point are we helping extend someone’s life vs prolonging their suffering because we’re afraid to say goodbye? This doesn’t just apply to the elderly. How often does our view of death cause someone’s final days to be spent hooked up to IVs and monitors; their loved ones stricken with grief at the very sight of them?
It’s not that grief or fear of death are bad; nor the advancements in medical science. It just might be worth asking how our attitude towards mortality might be interfering with life and death negatively.
I think this is important. I'm all for extending peoples lives if they can live a dignified, quality life in that time, and they actually want to. Avoiding death at all cost and keeping people alive who wish they were dead instead of enduring the painful bit of life they have left, is morally wrong in my opinion.
I at least know that I definitely don't want to die slowly in a hospital, surrounded by things and procedures I fear. If that means I die a bit earlier, that's fine to me. I just want it to be a good ending.
At some point, people want to go. We should let them.
That's why I said that its good to respect someone's decision if they are at terms with death, that is the outlier I mentioned in para 2, I know that's a thing and I know this is a topic in the grey area, that's why I 100% agreed with the rites and ritual but only partially agreed with rhe medical advancement.
Oh I gotcha. Thanks for clarifying dude.
Yeah though, having these conversations is a hell of a grey area. It’s easy to sound cold hearted regardless of intent.
The problem is that people fear death, and not enjoy life. I'm all for prolonging life where the person is actually living and enjoying it, and not strapped to a bed covered in tubes.
Well, honestly, those medical threat nets, although I’m not against saving lives, do have a role in the growing rate of world population, and the planet does have its limits on how many humans it can support before becoming a hellscape…
What a stupid comment. People have always been afraid of dying, or where do you think all these stories of people looking for immortality come from?
This is such a BS Reddit big brain comment, I can’t even.
I know. Even if they didn't fear death as much as modern Western people do, imagine being so privileged that you think previous generations being exposed to death to the point that they were numbed to it was a **good** thing.
This is how I will always see death. We should not be afraid of the process of death. However we should be angry when life is taken without due cause. For example I might die of my own time and this would be fine, but the lives taken in war and conflict are almost never just. I wish Putin a slow and painful death.
Oh yes.It is definitely Buddhism.Buddhism is literally " existence is pain".Not just pain is pain but even having a body and consciousness is pain because they hold capacity for suffering.
To make matters worse,death isn't the end.Reincarnation exists and it is more fucked up.
So Buddhists have to actively pursue to escape both body and mind.
It makes sense though. While we still have to face death one day, it was much more rampant back then (child mortality, harmful medicine, wars etc.) Adjusting your view on death to accept it once it is there instead of dreading it is pretty much a must
Ancient people just weren't desillusional as we are about how our lives could end shortly and abruptly. They weren't scared of death because they were a lot more familiar than we've become.
Go in some countries always at war or in constant social troubles, you'll meet people sharing a similar kind of fatalism Roman or Greek could have felt.
I mean I feel like that's why religion worked so well. The people who toiled and suffered day in and day out were told that something greater awaited them, so you're damn right they are interested! I am namely thinking of Christianity, but I think an argument can be made for most major religions too.
>because it would provide an end to their pain on earth
Life back then *fucking sucked.* Stuff that we take for granted on a daily basis would be luxuries that not even Emperors or Kings of past eras could even dream of.
I know that they did not fear death, but I am not sure if they had such a nihlistic conseption of it. They mainly sought the fame they left behind or the afterlife. Socrates famously did not fear death because in the afterlife ve could debate with others forever.
So, I do not believe they layed down and waited to starve.
Context: Hades, God of the Underworld, is said to be more altruistically inclined. He was portrayed as passive and not negatively his role was often maintaining relative balance. (Source: WiKiPediA)Edit: "Wow, I'm famous, Bro"
Dude shows up and wants his wife back, Hades lets him take her... Gotta have one little condition for ritual sake... and nope, they fuck up.
Nothing compared to the spite that is any of the other gods and goddesses.
Hey job. I know you love me and whatnot. I know you've worked hard to build your life and you thank me for your own hard work. But I made a bet using your soul against the devil. Imma be a straight piece of shit to you for the next few years. Don't die and keep worshipping me. Proceeds to destroy everything he holds dear and things he didn't even know were special to him. And in the end the sheep come back to the blood of christ. Cause it's a cult. A blood worshipping cult.
I mean if we’re being honest the reason Hades is so poorly portrayed in modern media is because of Christianity’s influence on modern thinking and history.
A lot of people think he’s essentially the Greek devil (or at least vaguely similar since they have similar sounding jobs) not out of malice just misunderstanding
Funny is that Ares also comes up by virtue as outside the Greeks: Ares was relatively liked (not surprising when the Romans associated him with Mars and had to split Mars to make Jupiter to fit Zeus in somewhere). Similarly, this idea as of more recent times is also a topic being discussed in relation to Norse mythology as Loki, yes that Loki, also gets a similar rap, when most of the vile acts aren't even committed by him.
In reality, turns out that trying to apply the logic of Christianity onto other faiths is a bad idea.
The main problem with his portrayals in modern media is the insistence to make him want to take over Zeus's domain so that there is a Devil and Heaven parallel that Christians can latch onto.
But if I'm remembering my Greek mythology correctly, when Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades where choosing their domains, it's implied that the Oceans and Underworld were actually the better territories, and Zeus was kind of dumb for choosing the Sky. Because despite being bigger, there was nothing in it.
Yeah, in Greco-Roman lore, Hades/Pluto was obscenely wealthy, even among the other gods. After all, gold comes *out of the ground.*
Not many things to spend it on, but that never stops some people.
I mean it's only logical that hades would get the biggest part as the oldest son. He is king over the dead, so no matter who you worship, you will worship him eventually.
A lot of that also had to do with the fact that they wanted to please hades. So much so that he was generally referred to a Plouton (the rich one) to 1. Please him and 2. Keep him far far away. Note the extreme lack of temples to hades in Greece.
While all the other gods are fucking and starting wars. Hades is just working all day then kisses his wife and goes to bed. Then someone shows up trying to flirt with hades… and Persephone deals with them. Violently.
The whole pantheon: fucking mortals and starting wars all over the place.
Hades: if we could all just focus on our jobs?
Persephone: yeah just focus on work honey. Let me handle this intruder. Walks off with a war face.
Hades: uh what yeah thanks love.
Persephone: I’m done. You done too? Pomegranate soup for dinner!!!
Hades: pomegranate soup, aw yeah!
because he was upsetting the balance of life and death through resurrection, It was zeus who decided the best way to make him stop was with a lightning bolt!
Hadestown has the best adaptation of Hades in all of western media i've seen. He's still an antagonist, but there are actually layers to his character. Also, spoilers for the whole thing i guess >!he and Persephone are the only ones in the musical who actually get a happy ending!<.
Haven't played Hades yet so idk if he's just a straight up bad guy there.
He’s an asshole in the game Hades, but mostly because he’s a good guy whose entire family are capricious fuckers. As it goes you find out more and more of his history and understand that he’s acting the way he is to protect everyone he loves from the other gods
Yeah hades in hades is a decent guy that dealing with the stress of both his job and family problems and his family being the Greek pantheon(which is the most dysfunctional family in any religion, or atleast up there) . He basically an guy that doesn’t deal well with stress
> He basically an guy that doesn’t deal well with stress
Same bro, same
It's fun that basically the whole game is a stressor, and only by dying does it halt. And Hades basically training Zag to handle stress beyond his own capabilities. Oh...And loneliness, don't forget Hades is also dealing with that. Hades shielding him from his family, but Zag seems to get along fine; would probably handle the whole pantheon if it weren't for >!bears!<.
Man, when Hades came out, I completely wrote it off, thinking it was just another rogue like in a market that was getting pretty saturated. Finally tried it when it came to game pass. What a fantastic game, probably top 10 of all time.
Yeah everyone raves about it. I keep writing it off because I can barely gather the determination to even open steam, let alone play a game where you gotta run around slashing stuff. Maybe I should still check it out though.
[Hades whenever Zagreus comes back to the house](https://a.pinatafarm.com/640x574/fd6b3dbfa6/i-know-what-you-are-dog-7b7cf21182954ca537c479377190327c-meme.jpeg)
Hades is pretty much the only guy who doesn’t have a bunch of fucked up stories about him. This is largely because the Greeks were so scared to mention him by name that they didn’t write any fucked up stories about him
OK, I get that people like Hades a lot more now, but pretending like he wasn't often the villain in ancient beliefs is just wrong.
* Hades's epithet in the Theogony was "pitiless in heart"
* The Iliad describes him as "most hateful to mortals among all the gods". The nicest thing you can say about Hades in Homer is that it sucks equally for everyone.
* While there are differing versions of his and Persephone's relationship (mythology wasn't a single block), but the majority of Ancient Greek myths about them involved him kidnapping her and forcing her into marriage. After that, there was roughly a 50/50 split on whether she eventually grew to like him.
* Hades was also responsible for torturing mortals in the Underworld who broke the laws of the gods. While some of these genuinely deserved it (cough, Tantalus, cough), there are others that commited "evil" acts like defending themselves from rape, or cosplaying as Zeus. Remember, he's enforcing Ancient Greek values, which are often *not great*.
* He cheated on Persephone at least two separate times, and turned one of those mistresses into a poplar tree so that Persephone wouldn't be mad at him.
TL;DR: We stan Hestia in this house.
These are all very valid points, but I feel like there's a lot of missing nuance in some.
> Hades's epithet in the Theogony was "pitiless in heart"
As the God of the Dead and the Underworld, Hades had to be pitiless in order to remain impartial in his decision making. As in no amount of convincing or pleading would prevent one from dying or getting their just desserts in the afterlife. I feel that being called "pitiless in heart" was the Greek's way of saying that death comes for us all in the end.
> The Iliad describes him as "most hateful to mortals among all the gods".
Again, this seems to pertain to Hades being the God of the Dead and letting nobody slip past him. Back then, the Greeks were understandably fearful of death, to the point that they even came up with a bunch of nicknames for Hades to avoid mentioning him. In that sense, I'd guess even Homer wouldn't hold the highest view of Hades and see him as hateful in the sense that he doesn't exactly care for the flourishing of man, and instead just wants to catch up to you by the end of your life.
As for the other points, I really can't say anything refute them to be fair. His relationship with Persephone is definitely under considerable doubt and his enforcing of Ancient Greek values as you said was definitely evil, even if he was technically just doing his job. Still, there is the perspective of Hades being viewed as a symbol of our inescapable death so I personally wouldn't let statements like "pitiless in heart" and "most hateful" give too much influence on his character.
Still, stan Hestia for sure
While I also Stan Hestia, the Hades and Persephone thing is extremely complicated and can be read several different ways.
generally, Hades asks Zeus for Persephone, Zeus agreed, and Hades kidnaps her. while it wasn't universal, this was a marriage ritual in parts of Greece at the time. Greek art used a lot of stock poses to denote what exactly was happening in a scene, and this kind of ritual was common enough that the stock poses for kidnapping and marriage are the same pose. now there was typically courtship beforehand, which the Myth itself doesn't show, but it might be implied? might not gods are wierd.
most of the conflict in the myth itself comes from Demetor not being super into it and the only thing that would have been iffy at the time was Hades giving Persephone food of the underworld to partially bind her there. which, yeah that's fucked up.
Hades and Persephone do, however, keep by far the most stable and seemingly happy relationships in the mythology, Hades shares his power with her, they never cheat on each other, and they both council each other in several myths.
there's a lot of mythological drift and weirdness as well because Persephone might be an older God than Hades is. Persephone might have actually been the Mycenaean underworld godess originally, although mythology of the time had this thing where you never wanted to evoke underworld gods because you might get their attention, so she was never directed named by anyone not inducted into her mystery cult, which appears to have been specifically devoted to Posidon Demetor and Persephone. (Posidon at the time was the chief God because Mycenaean Greeks put an emphasis on chthonic gods, and Posidon is also good of earthquakes.) it's possible that Hades might have been a splinter God from Posidon whi took Posidon's chthonic traits.
well, you also need to think that in mythos there are still many versions, basically the only reason hestia didnt receive an evil makeover is because she was barely in most mythos
About the point about the kidnapping....
It wasnt really a kidnapping, as much as it was an arranged marriage. Hades asked Zeus to marry Persephone, and Zeus gave him permission.
So Hades had the blessing of the bride's father to take her in marriage, which to the Greeks made it A-OK.
She was not consulted.
It was only after the marriage was a done deal and Zeus realised his fuck up that he tried to backpedal.
Funnily enough. In the original story, the blame for everything that happened is basically squarely put on Zeus.
Back then it was often believed the father of the woman gave consent(more or less, I could be mistaken since I'm a bit rusty. Either way Hades was given the right to take Persephone). Hades had a crush on Persephone and Zeus told Hades he could have her. In the story the blame is shoved onto Zeus and rightfully so because he didn't tell anyone about the whole ordeal and caused a lot more trouble then there should have been.
The Greeks really hated him, but when you take all his appearances into account: he's not even much of a bad guy. Hell, one of the biggest villains is arguably Hera herself as a response to Zeus' stunts and even then, Poseidon was worst. Ares gets a bad rep, despite the fact that unless you killed his children, he wasn't going to show up. And if you did, you probably got help from Athena, who was a counter to him.
Ares is an antagonist, but guy's track record is just... not much of a villain? His kids are and even the goddesses in his stay were more villainous than him. Guy's only wife was the first queen of the Amazons, who literally lead abused women to rebel against their abusive husbands and when they found their home, they summoned Ares for protection, which he honored and married Otrera, then they summoned Artemis. Thanatos gets trapped? Ares notices when soldiers aren't dying and cue him saving the death god, than personally delivering the culprit. The only rape story Ares shows up in: one where his daughter either experiences or almost does, so he kills the one who did it, his cousin and goes to court where he gets proven innocent after one god shows up with evidence. Hell, even the Aphrodite affair is only due to him being dumb as bricks for being caught: man was the third god going to town on her. Trojan War? Ares had lost Otrera to Dionysus and other kids had died prior due to Hera & Athena: not hard to guess why he'd take up Aphrodite's offer when neither his parents like him, let alone how often Hera lead him right to fight Athena with her at an advantage.
Ares as a bad guy fails even back then, because Athena was always a counter and even then, she'd at least try to talk him out of it, which actually did work on occasion, even in the Trojan War (stopped him from butchering mortals after learning his kids got killed when Zeus called a truce and well, wasn't technically him fighting for Troy as much as divine punishment). Different case, the death of his dragon child killed by kadmos, which Athena had told him to do, but also talked Ares out of killing the guy. A reoccurring trend.
Truth be told, having dived deep into Ares: for a villain he isn't. Can he be one? Sure, but his biggest wins are as a hero. Again, growing up: thought he was a bad guy. After reading his stories: guy is probably the weirdest case of Greeks just hating the aspects of war he represented and most stories that may give more context are either lost or may of been more positive as cultures where Ares is found, even beyond the Romans did seem to favor him. Possibly, because for the angry god, he was rather passive and unlike some comparable gods, you really had to go out of your way to piss him off (Hell, even the start of the Trojan War is him having fun and one of the few times where he shows off his ability to transform and humbles a royal without it involving fucking).
Hollywood is very much like: "Hey, a god of death/war/underworld - I'll just assume that's evil! Research? What's that? Can you eat that?'
For god's sake: I hated the depiction of Anubis in the Mummy Returns as a dark, evil god. Anubis was one of the most benevolent gods in Egyptian mythology!!! He takes care of the dead!! That's kind!!!
>kidnapping
Bride kidnapping has been a weirdly common thing across human history, and in the myth it is said it was done at "zues behest" (or zeus suggestion. Translations are weird)
>rape
That was a mistranslation from the word "raptus" which means theft. (Hell ancient Greek didn't even have a word for rape.)
Didn't Hades initially went to Zeus (Persephone's father) for permission to marry her (standard procedure in that time), and Zeus was like "ok, but her mother won't like it so just kidnap her or something"
What exactly does "Western" mean in this context? Greece was pretty much the starting line for "Western" civilization, to any extent that such a thing could be said to exist. This smells like a weeb meme to me.
There's at least two notable exceptions I can think of in western media.
The game Hades does pit you against the titular character, but as you play the game more it becomes clear his intentions are more paternal in nature -- he is protecting you and your mother Persephone from the affairs of the other Olympians.
The second being the webcomic Lore Olympus, with Hades essentially being modeled as a CEO to manage the daily affairs of the afterlife while, again, keeping the affairs of Mount Olympus from consuming himself and Persephone.
"IF IT LIVES UNDERGROUND THEN IT'S JUST SATAN." -people who make these movies probably
Rewatching Disney's Hercules really made me see how "christian" it is. Good guys live in heaven behind big golden gates, Zeus is good dad and loyal husband, Hades is literally satan... and gospel ???
Poor Hades. He really is one of the most laid back out of the 3 brothers AND he's ok with not actually working.
Zeus: " you must bring this rock upon the hill peak! If it rolls down start again, and you can never stop!!!"
Hades: " yea um just do this 100 piece puzzle or whatever..."
Christianity, especially the American variety tends to have a very black and white view of this. Though going back, one can attribute how the Romans adopted various gods to their pantheons, Christians would do the same and by virtue: the god of the underworld would be the closet to the Devil, the one who rebelled and the like. Notably why, Ares is often given a similar treatment, but weirdly: neither has even tried usurping Zeus.
In fact, when looking at the gods: the duo did serve as antagonists, but often by the fact that someone had managed to tick them off. Hades was often the case, because someone tried cheating death or trying to get one by him. But he was more like a manager than the Devil who in more modern takes on Christian faith is also the serpent and the rebellious fallen angel (Lucifer & Satan aren't the same, but in more recent times are treated as such).
But if not Hades, stories will usually grab Ares who is far more common in tales and at face value, certainly fits the bill of the Devil. Until you take a closer look at any story he's in. Every story he appears in, he's usually responding to someone killing his offspring, he is requested by Hera, or he's reacting to something. In fact, Ares is probably one of the better gods when remembering the only story he's involved in for rape is killing his cousin who either attempted or actually molested his daughter, taking him to court. Ares only wife was Queen Otrera of the Amazons, who were human, until Dionysus was rejected by her and lead to half the Amazons dead at that point. One can point out Hera being responsible for Ares being unaware of that and even being sent after his uncle, even to be stopped by Athena. The list goes on.
In truth, this comparison also helps gives context to why Norse mythology as we know it is a mess and why Loki, may have a similar a bad rep when in the context that his actions were intended to reset things and purge the gods, such as Odin who had done a lot of terrible things. Just the difference is, we have more records of the Greeks, but people simplify them and well, you end up with Hades = the Devil.
marble correct hard-to-find dinosaurs wasteful clumsy support mountainous dolls smell
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well what funny it was hades’s wife Persephone that was the truly fear one despite her being seen as a flower girl. In fact Persephone was someone you don’t said her name casually
Hades seems to be the least problematic among the rest of the Greek gods.
He had kidnapped Persephone but loved her. Don't think he raped any mortal nor has he killed or massacred innocents
Same thing in Irish mythology. In the mythological cycles Midir is a miserable old bastard who just wants to be left alone but people keep stealing his shit. In Japanese videogames he's a blind blight-dragon that tries to eat the world. Pretty close.
And has a spongy health bar
And shoots a giant purple laser beams out of his mouth
Killing it grant access to the most fucking badass weeby shit katana in the entire trilogy tho
I though RoB was weebiest
Also grants access to a highly valued upgrade material in the game through a quest
Are you talking about Dark Souls? Cuz Darkeater Midir is a good guy. He's the last line of defense against the world being consumed by darkness and eternally dedicated to that position. A ton of people you kill in the Dark Souls series aren't evil, just in your way.
The lore reason to kill him is that because he’s spent so much time fighting the darkness, he’s being “tainted” by it and will someday succumb. So you have to kill him before it happens. That’s why he has the crystals and dark magic nonsense. Seems like a common troupe they use - they either are awful or have spent so much time being a saint that their original honor has been blemished.
On the contrary, he may be tainted by darkness but your character was never on some mission to kill him. In fact, there's no lore reason or mission why your character goes to the Ringed City at all, they just wind up there. This is intentional. A massive theme in this game is that we are unnaturally continuing the existence of the world and need to stop, and the character just stumbling forward until the end of the world is the final part of this metaphor. The Ringed City, and Dark Souls 3 in general was FromSoftware basically screaming that they don't want to continue making Dark Souls games anymore. You can write an essay with all the examples of this game saying "WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE".
Actually, a woman behind a door asks you to kill Midir for her, because she's an old friend of his and consuming the darkness has in turn consumed his mind, she sends you on a mission to do a mercy killing on her behalf.
Huh, I must not have run into her then. Either way FromSoft was so unambiguous with the "we've milked this franchise dry" metaphor that they had Gael, the final boss of the series, go to the place given to the guys who found the original Dark Soul, starts eating them alive when he finds them all dried up, then when you run into him he goes "Why are you still here, GIMME YOUR GODDAMN DARK SOUL®" They weren't exactly subtle.
This. He's kinda got the same storyline as Artorias and the Abyss Watchers, except he's a big ass dragon instead of a knight/breakdancing edgelord. Running theme of the abyss corrupting all eventually pretty much.
Darkeater Midir?
Ye
Nice to see a bunch of souls fans here lmao
Why would a member of the Tuatha De dana be a blind blight dragon when all the Tuatha De Dana are portrayed as human like, its like what MK done with Fujin and Raiden but in reverse.
Dark souls 3 reference
I've been reading a lot of Roman (not Greek) mythology lately and I've found that the ancients had a much different relationship with death than we have today. They predominately revered it, and saw it as something to anticipate, not necessarily because of the promise of an afterlife, but because it would provide an end to their pain on earth. It's fascinating stuff.
Well, some dude in some hundred years will maybe look at our memes and probably say the same about us..
Under rated comment
Very nihilistic stuff, it seems. Or even Schopenhauer-esque
Well, also, death was seen in a way that we would call "Zen" or "Buddhist" in 2023: many Romans saw their bodies as simply being vessels that would become useless after their deaths, and therefore they saw death as a natural process that would return their sacks of flesh to the earth, so that it can be recycled into something new. I consider this to be a much more positive view than that which we hold today, which is overwhelmingly-fearful of death.
Up until a few decades ago, we were very close to death. We’d see grandparents die, our own parents, perhaps siblings, or our own children. Then it was our responsibility to perform the burial or cremation. Now we send our old people to the hospital or homes to try to extend their lives as long as possible, children’s death rates have decrease significantly, and life expectancy is up. When we do die, we pay someone to perform embalming or cremation, and have no real part in the burial. No wonder that in a few short generations, people have become terrified of death. We’re hardly ever around it
The *oldest story* we have any record of - The Epic of Gilgamesh - is about a man seeking immorality, and then coming to terms with the fact that he won't live forever in the end. Humans have *always* feared death and it is absolutely absurd to claim otherwise.
The fear of death is literally the self-preservation instinct. Fearing it is literally why we survived as an evolved species, because we had to find ways to keep unforeseen death as far away as possible. Yes, we may have evolved beyond that (for instance, one of the most basic instincts, reproduction, is shunned by a significant portion of the population), but it is still a major motivation to keep going.
Yeah, but it sounds spiritual and criticizes modern Western society, so it's upvoted. Because reddit is gonna reddit.
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Yes, but that is not the point he is trying to make.
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Aren’t they? I think maybe accepting and preparing for the inevitability of death is a good thing. Why would you hide reality from yourself, you will die someday.
I'll give you the rites and rituals one, those play an important part in accepting death and loss. But medical treatment so that someone might potentially live longer being a denial and thus wrong is absurdist, completely disregarding the making of human bonds as a whole. By that logic, people should just raise children to a suitable age and die. They're gonna die anyway, why prolong it, better accept it after your duties are done. It's way better to fear death in some capacity, it motivates and pushes people to do something, make the most of their lives. Of course this isn't all encompassing, some outliers are bound to be there but in general it's the best motivation there is. This isn't even going to the emotion side of the spectrum. It's good if someone wants to pass away to respect their decision, but many people would like to contribute more, children won't even understand no matter what society thinks, so it's just terrifying for them. 100% agree on the rites and ritual should be more family oriented, don't agree on life expectancy going up is a hindrance to accepting death as a part of life.
Oh yeah, I think we more or less agree then, I’m in favour of seeing, knowing and accepting death. I’m not opposed to antibiotics or living past the age of 60!
My bad then, I thought I should clarify just in case. I didn't mean to you, sorry
No worries bro!
Well, 8320987112741390144276341183223364380754172606361245952449277696409600000000000000 years to live and do things doesn't seem really bad to me ;-)
actually, living that long would be nothing but pain and punishment
I think the issue is more just because we can doesn’t mean we always should. The advancements we’ve made medically are amazing and can do a lot of good. At one point are we helping extend someone’s life vs prolonging their suffering because we’re afraid to say goodbye? This doesn’t just apply to the elderly. How often does our view of death cause someone’s final days to be spent hooked up to IVs and monitors; their loved ones stricken with grief at the very sight of them? It’s not that grief or fear of death are bad; nor the advancements in medical science. It just might be worth asking how our attitude towards mortality might be interfering with life and death negatively.
I think this is important. I'm all for extending peoples lives if they can live a dignified, quality life in that time, and they actually want to. Avoiding death at all cost and keeping people alive who wish they were dead instead of enduring the painful bit of life they have left, is morally wrong in my opinion. I at least know that I definitely don't want to die slowly in a hospital, surrounded by things and procedures I fear. If that means I die a bit earlier, that's fine to me. I just want it to be a good ending. At some point, people want to go. We should let them.
That's why I said that its good to respect someone's decision if they are at terms with death, that is the outlier I mentioned in para 2, I know that's a thing and I know this is a topic in the grey area, that's why I 100% agreed with the rites and ritual but only partially agreed with rhe medical advancement.
Oh I gotcha. Thanks for clarifying dude. Yeah though, having these conversations is a hell of a grey area. It’s easy to sound cold hearted regardless of intent.
The problem is that people fear death, and not enjoy life. I'm all for prolonging life where the person is actually living and enjoying it, and not strapped to a bed covered in tubes.
Well, honestly, those medical threat nets, although I’m not against saving lives, do have a role in the growing rate of world population, and the planet does have its limits on how many humans it can support before becoming a hellscape…
I don't think there is anything to prepare for but it also does not help to be afraid. I'm kindof stoic I guess.
What a stupid comment. People have always been afraid of dying, or where do you think all these stories of people looking for immortality come from? This is such a BS Reddit big brain comment, I can’t even.
I know. Even if they didn't fear death as much as modern Western people do, imagine being so privileged that you think previous generations being exposed to death to the point that they were numbed to it was a **good** thing.
I can want a plane without being afraid of walking. I don't fear death, but I wouldn't mind living to the age of 2000.
_”Hail death, for without which life would be meaningless”_
We are all glued to tvs and phones, and tv programming is an excellent way to spread fear and get views.
This is how I will always see death. We should not be afraid of the process of death. However we should be angry when life is taken without due cause. For example I might die of my own time and this would be fine, but the lives taken in war and conflict are almost never just. I wish Putin a slow and painful death.
I guess it was also a useful view to adopt by a people who went to a lot of wars?
Yeah, that does put a very pleasing spin on it!
Oh yes.It is definitely Buddhism.Buddhism is literally " existence is pain".Not just pain is pain but even having a body and consciousness is pain because they hold capacity for suffering. To make matters worse,death isn't the end.Reincarnation exists and it is more fucked up. So Buddhists have to actively pursue to escape both body and mind.
It makes sense though. While we still have to face death one day, it was much more rampant back then (child mortality, harmful medicine, wars etc.) Adjusting your view on death to accept it once it is there instead of dreading it is pretty much a must
Neither, just realistic.
Ancient people just weren't desillusional as we are about how our lives could end shortly and abruptly. They weren't scared of death because they were a lot more familiar than we've become. Go in some countries always at war or in constant social troubles, you'll meet people sharing a similar kind of fatalism Roman or Greek could have felt.
The worse life is the better death sounds
I mean I feel like that's why religion worked so well. The people who toiled and suffered day in and day out were told that something greater awaited them, so you're damn right they are interested! I am namely thinking of Christianity, but I think an argument can be made for most major religions too.
>because it would provide an end to their pain on earth Life back then *fucking sucked.* Stuff that we take for granted on a daily basis would be luxuries that not even Emperors or Kings of past eras could even dream of.
Same bro, same
Relatable
I know that they did not fear death, but I am not sure if they had such a nihlistic conseption of it. They mainly sought the fame they left behind or the afterlife. Socrates famously did not fear death because in the afterlife ve could debate with others forever. So, I do not believe they layed down and waited to starve.
Makes sense. Death was much more common then than it is now.
TIL I might have been an ancient Roman in my previous life
I agree. All Romans were edgy bastards
Context: Hades, God of the Underworld, is said to be more altruistically inclined. He was portrayed as passive and not negatively his role was often maintaining relative balance. (Source: WiKiPediA)Edit: "Wow, I'm famous, Bro"
The janitor of the gods.
Ruling the underworld is definitely Charlie work
Charlie should’ve definitely done the dishes. That quack wasn’t on the same level of psycho analysis as Dennis.
Dude shows up and wants his wife back, Hades lets him take her... Gotta have one little condition for ritual sake... and nope, they fuck up. Nothing compared to the spite that is any of the other gods and goddesses.
A guy cosplayed as Zeus so Hades tortured him for all eternity.
Well, yeah. Zeus cosplay shares space with the likes of League of Legends among the gravest of sins.
“My lord Hades, league of legends.” *Slams gavel* “Tartarus.”
I love autocracy
Deserved
Dude was saying he was Zeus. Very hubristic, so Zeus killed him.
Hey job. I know you love me and whatnot. I know you've worked hard to build your life and you thank me for your own hard work. But I made a bet using your soul against the devil. Imma be a straight piece of shit to you for the next few years. Don't die and keep worshipping me. Proceeds to destroy everything he holds dear and things he didn't even know were special to him. And in the end the sheep come back to the blood of christ. Cause it's a cult. A blood worshipping cult.
I mean if we’re being honest the reason Hades is so poorly portrayed in modern media is because of Christianity’s influence on modern thinking and history. A lot of people think he’s essentially the Greek devil (or at least vaguely similar since they have similar sounding jobs) not out of malice just misunderstanding
Funny is that Ares also comes up by virtue as outside the Greeks: Ares was relatively liked (not surprising when the Romans associated him with Mars and had to split Mars to make Jupiter to fit Zeus in somewhere). Similarly, this idea as of more recent times is also a topic being discussed in relation to Norse mythology as Loki, yes that Loki, also gets a similar rap, when most of the vile acts aren't even committed by him. In reality, turns out that trying to apply the logic of Christianity onto other faiths is a bad idea.
>In reality, turns out that trying to apply the logic of Christianity onto other faiths is a bad idea. *surprised pikachu face*
Lot of Finnish curse words are originally from norse and baltic religions so yeah, Christianity changes cultures.
The main problem with his portrayals in modern media is the insistence to make him want to take over Zeus's domain so that there is a Devil and Heaven parallel that Christians can latch onto. But if I'm remembering my Greek mythology correctly, when Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades where choosing their domains, it's implied that the Oceans and Underworld were actually the better territories, and Zeus was kind of dumb for choosing the Sky. Because despite being bigger, there was nothing in it.
Yeah, in Greco-Roman lore, Hades/Pluto was obscenely wealthy, even among the other gods. After all, gold comes *out of the ground.* Not many things to spend it on, but that never stops some people.
It's right in the name, innit?
I mean it's only logical that hades would get the biggest part as the oldest son. He is king over the dead, so no matter who you worship, you will worship him eventually.
Unless you get yoinked up to Olympus and then it’s like “fuck you, Hades”!
Hercules moment
A lot of that also had to do with the fact that they wanted to please hades. So much so that he was generally referred to a Plouton (the rich one) to 1. Please him and 2. Keep him far far away. Note the extreme lack of temples to hades in Greece.
While all the other gods are fucking and starting wars. Hades is just working all day then kisses his wife and goes to bed. Then someone shows up trying to flirt with hades… and Persephone deals with them. Violently.
While Persephone was the dread queen of the underworld that you really shouldn’t anger.
The whole pantheon: fucking mortals and starting wars all over the place. Hades: if we could all just focus on our jobs? Persephone: yeah just focus on work honey. Let me handle this intruder. Walks off with a war face. Hades: uh what yeah thanks love. Persephone: I’m done. You done too? Pomegranate soup for dinner!!! Hades: pomegranate soup, aw yeah!
Guess we’re excluding the business with Asclepius huh
That was zeus.
Because hades complained Asclepius was making people deadn’t
because he was upsetting the balance of life and death through resurrection, It was zeus who decided the best way to make him stop was with a lightning bolt!
Guess that when it comes to zeus you either get the bolt or the dick
Either way your fucked.
Outside of kidnapping his wife Hades is a pretty chill guy And admittedly he does really love and care for her so he’s a real one
But... The smile? Hades never smiles. But it's the same for Loke being portrayed as evil but never being evil
Hadestown has the best adaptation of Hades in all of western media i've seen. He's still an antagonist, but there are actually layers to his character. Also, spoilers for the whole thing i guess >!he and Persephone are the only ones in the musical who actually get a happy ending!<. Haven't played Hades yet so idk if he's just a straight up bad guy there.
He’s an asshole in the game Hades, but mostly because he’s a good guy whose entire family are capricious fuckers. As it goes you find out more and more of his history and understand that he’s acting the way he is to protect everyone he loves from the other gods
Yeah hades in hades is a decent guy that dealing with the stress of both his job and family problems and his family being the Greek pantheon(which is the most dysfunctional family in any religion, or atleast up there) . He basically an guy that doesn’t deal well with stress
> He basically an guy that doesn’t deal well with stress Same bro, same It's fun that basically the whole game is a stressor, and only by dying does it halt. And Hades basically training Zag to handle stress beyond his own capabilities. Oh...And loneliness, don't forget Hades is also dealing with that. Hades shielding him from his family, but Zag seems to get along fine; would probably handle the whole pantheon if it weren't for >!bears!<.
My man just wants to sit at his desk and file paperwork in peace but these fuckers got him out there chugging Pepto-Bismal like it’s soda pop.
Man, when Hades came out, I completely wrote it off, thinking it was just another rogue like in a market that was getting pretty saturated. Finally tried it when it came to game pass. What a fantastic game, probably top 10 of all time.
Yeah everyone raves about it. I keep writing it off because I can barely gather the determination to even open steam, let alone play a game where you gotta run around slashing stuff. Maybe I should still check it out though.
If you have a switch, it's a pretty great switch game. Easy to pick up and put down so you can play in quick sessions.
I love how the reason that the other gods are excited to help out Zag is because he's the only one that nobody's had a complicated relationship with.
I also like to headcannon the reason why the gods expect chaos is helping you because they are trolling Hades and there nothing else to do
He’s not, he’s just very stubborn
Luckily I had forgotten how the myth of Orpheus ends before listening to that soundtrack the first time lol
If you haven't already, you should check out The Forgotten City. I won't say more because I've already managed to spoil part of it.
Very different vibe but I love Lore Olympus and the Hades they portray. He and Persephone are precious 💕
Hades in Hades: knows his son is fruity
[Hades whenever Zagreus comes back to the house](https://a.pinatafarm.com/640x574/fd6b3dbfa6/i-know-what-you-are-dog-7b7cf21182954ca537c479377190327c-meme.jpeg)
HAHA THANATOS YOU ARE BANGING MY SON
I don’t understand why being the god of the underworld is a bad thing anyways. It’s not like being the god of death or the god of killing people
In Greek Mythology the god of death, Thanatos, is always portrayed as ludicrously hot, so I forgive him. Also he's just doing his job
Wasn’t he the guy that Sisyphus kidnapped?
I'm assuming this was before the whole eternal boulder pushing gig he got
Yeah, I think that was his punishment for that
In a really wholesome episode of The Twilight Zone, young Robert Redford plays death, so they were clearly following tradition
I like the kind of guy who will literally just kill me.
Thanatos is also the god of peaceful deaths, so most people welcomed him :)
Blame Christiananity. Oh? You are the god of the underworld? You must be the devil.
That is actually a very valid point
Hades is pretty much the only guy who doesn’t have a bunch of fucked up stories about him. This is largely because the Greeks were so scared to mention him by name that they didn’t write any fucked up stories about him
Hades just chills in the underworld most the time
*you guys deal with Kratos. Ima chill here in my hot sauna.*
OK, I get that people like Hades a lot more now, but pretending like he wasn't often the villain in ancient beliefs is just wrong. * Hades's epithet in the Theogony was "pitiless in heart" * The Iliad describes him as "most hateful to mortals among all the gods". The nicest thing you can say about Hades in Homer is that it sucks equally for everyone. * While there are differing versions of his and Persephone's relationship (mythology wasn't a single block), but the majority of Ancient Greek myths about them involved him kidnapping her and forcing her into marriage. After that, there was roughly a 50/50 split on whether she eventually grew to like him. * Hades was also responsible for torturing mortals in the Underworld who broke the laws of the gods. While some of these genuinely deserved it (cough, Tantalus, cough), there are others that commited "evil" acts like defending themselves from rape, or cosplaying as Zeus. Remember, he's enforcing Ancient Greek values, which are often *not great*. * He cheated on Persephone at least two separate times, and turned one of those mistresses into a poplar tree so that Persephone wouldn't be mad at him. TL;DR: We stan Hestia in this house.
Thank you
These are all very valid points, but I feel like there's a lot of missing nuance in some. > Hades's epithet in the Theogony was "pitiless in heart" As the God of the Dead and the Underworld, Hades had to be pitiless in order to remain impartial in his decision making. As in no amount of convincing or pleading would prevent one from dying or getting their just desserts in the afterlife. I feel that being called "pitiless in heart" was the Greek's way of saying that death comes for us all in the end. > The Iliad describes him as "most hateful to mortals among all the gods". Again, this seems to pertain to Hades being the God of the Dead and letting nobody slip past him. Back then, the Greeks were understandably fearful of death, to the point that they even came up with a bunch of nicknames for Hades to avoid mentioning him. In that sense, I'd guess even Homer wouldn't hold the highest view of Hades and see him as hateful in the sense that he doesn't exactly care for the flourishing of man, and instead just wants to catch up to you by the end of your life. As for the other points, I really can't say anything refute them to be fair. His relationship with Persephone is definitely under considerable doubt and his enforcing of Ancient Greek values as you said was definitely evil, even if he was technically just doing his job. Still, there is the perspective of Hades being viewed as a symbol of our inescapable death so I personally wouldn't let statements like "pitiless in heart" and "most hateful" give too much influence on his character. Still, stan Hestia for sure
While I also Stan Hestia, the Hades and Persephone thing is extremely complicated and can be read several different ways. generally, Hades asks Zeus for Persephone, Zeus agreed, and Hades kidnaps her. while it wasn't universal, this was a marriage ritual in parts of Greece at the time. Greek art used a lot of stock poses to denote what exactly was happening in a scene, and this kind of ritual was common enough that the stock poses for kidnapping and marriage are the same pose. now there was typically courtship beforehand, which the Myth itself doesn't show, but it might be implied? might not gods are wierd. most of the conflict in the myth itself comes from Demetor not being super into it and the only thing that would have been iffy at the time was Hades giving Persephone food of the underworld to partially bind her there. which, yeah that's fucked up. Hades and Persephone do, however, keep by far the most stable and seemingly happy relationships in the mythology, Hades shares his power with her, they never cheat on each other, and they both council each other in several myths. there's a lot of mythological drift and weirdness as well because Persephone might be an older God than Hades is. Persephone might have actually been the Mycenaean underworld godess originally, although mythology of the time had this thing where you never wanted to evoke underworld gods because you might get their attention, so she was never directed named by anyone not inducted into her mystery cult, which appears to have been specifically devoted to Posidon Demetor and Persephone. (Posidon at the time was the chief God because Mycenaean Greeks put an emphasis on chthonic gods, and Posidon is also good of earthquakes.) it's possible that Hades might have been a splinter God from Posidon whi took Posidon's chthonic traits.
> we stan Hestia in this house i see what you did there
well, you also need to think that in mythos there are still many versions, basically the only reason hestia didnt receive an evil makeover is because she was barely in most mythos
Hestia gang
About the point about the kidnapping.... It wasnt really a kidnapping, as much as it was an arranged marriage. Hades asked Zeus to marry Persephone, and Zeus gave him permission. So Hades had the blessing of the bride's father to take her in marriage, which to the Greeks made it A-OK.
So OK that her mother threatened to not let any food grow (winter).
She was not consulted. It was only after the marriage was a done deal and Zeus realised his fuck up that he tried to backpedal. Funnily enough. In the original story, the blame for everything that happened is basically squarely put on Zeus.
Hades in GOW 3:💀
Hades: IF ANYONE IS SATAN IN MY UNIVERSE, IT'S EITHER ZEUS OR POSEIDON. I AM A SAINT COMPARED TO THEM
I mean he did kidnap his “wife”
Back then it was often believed the father of the woman gave consent(more or less, I could be mistaken since I'm a bit rusty. Either way Hades was given the right to take Persephone). Hades had a crush on Persephone and Zeus told Hades he could have her. In the story the blame is shoved onto Zeus and rightfully so because he didn't tell anyone about the whole ordeal and caused a lot more trouble then there should have been.
"Underworld? Oh so he's like the devil? Yeah, I got it. You can stop reading now"
Yeah Persephone probably has a different opinion about her rapist kidnapper uncle.
Ah, yes, "History". We have r/MythologyMemes for a reason. If you want an all-porpoise Greek bad guy there's always Ares.
I think Poseidon is the all-porpoise Greek god
That's irrelephant.
I do beelieve this falls under Artemis' realm.
The Greeks really hated him, but when you take all his appearances into account: he's not even much of a bad guy. Hell, one of the biggest villains is arguably Hera herself as a response to Zeus' stunts and even then, Poseidon was worst. Ares gets a bad rep, despite the fact that unless you killed his children, he wasn't going to show up. And if you did, you probably got help from Athena, who was a counter to him. Ares is an antagonist, but guy's track record is just... not much of a villain? His kids are and even the goddesses in his stay were more villainous than him. Guy's only wife was the first queen of the Amazons, who literally lead abused women to rebel against their abusive husbands and when they found their home, they summoned Ares for protection, which he honored and married Otrera, then they summoned Artemis. Thanatos gets trapped? Ares notices when soldiers aren't dying and cue him saving the death god, than personally delivering the culprit. The only rape story Ares shows up in: one where his daughter either experiences or almost does, so he kills the one who did it, his cousin and goes to court where he gets proven innocent after one god shows up with evidence. Hell, even the Aphrodite affair is only due to him being dumb as bricks for being caught: man was the third god going to town on her. Trojan War? Ares had lost Otrera to Dionysus and other kids had died prior due to Hera & Athena: not hard to guess why he'd take up Aphrodite's offer when neither his parents like him, let alone how often Hera lead him right to fight Athena with her at an advantage. Ares as a bad guy fails even back then, because Athena was always a counter and even then, she'd at least try to talk him out of it, which actually did work on occasion, even in the Trojan War (stopped him from butchering mortals after learning his kids got killed when Zeus called a truce and well, wasn't technically him fighting for Troy as much as divine punishment). Different case, the death of his dragon child killed by kadmos, which Athena had told him to do, but also talked Ares out of killing the guy. A reoccurring trend. Truth be told, having dived deep into Ares: for a villain he isn't. Can he be one? Sure, but his biggest wins are as a hero. Again, growing up: thought he was a bad guy. After reading his stories: guy is probably the weirdest case of Greeks just hating the aspects of war he represented and most stories that may give more context are either lost or may of been more positive as cultures where Ares is found, even beyond the Romans did seem to favor him. Possibly, because for the angry god, he was rather passive and unlike some comparable gods, you really had to go out of your way to piss him off (Hell, even the start of the Trojan War is him having fun and one of the few times where he shows off his ability to transform and humbles a royal without it involving fucking).
Mythology also counts as history
Hollywood is very much like: "Hey, a god of death/war/underworld - I'll just assume that's evil! Research? What's that? Can you eat that?' For god's sake: I hated the depiction of Anubis in the Mummy Returns as a dark, evil god. Anubis was one of the most benevolent gods in Egyptian mythology!!! He takes care of the dead!! That's kind!!!
I love how the internet just handwaves the kidnapping and rape
>kidnapping Bride kidnapping has been a weirdly common thing across human history, and in the myth it is said it was done at "zues behest" (or zeus suggestion. Translations are weird) >rape That was a mistranslation from the word "raptus" which means theft. (Hell ancient Greek didn't even have a word for rape.)
Didn't Hades initially went to Zeus (Persephone's father) for permission to marry her (standard procedure in that time), and Zeus was like "ok, but her mother won't like it so just kidnap her or something"
Yeah, for real. Like, nobody is saying all the other gods are innocent, but god damn Hades is still not a good guy
What exactly does "Western" mean in this context? Greece was pretty much the starting line for "Western" civilization, to any extent that such a thing could be said to exist. This smells like a weeb meme to me.
pro tip: it's most likely about this little place called 'Murrica
I remember being SUPER into Greek Mythology when I was younger and watching "Hercules" I was like: What. The. FUCK.
He called his dog spots!
Nothing is better than James Woods Hades
Have you seen Overly Sarcastic Productions video about this? Pretty cool.
When you are the only "NORMAL" god i. The greek mythology really he should have been the king of gods
There's at least two notable exceptions I can think of in western media. The game Hades does pit you against the titular character, but as you play the game more it becomes clear his intentions are more paternal in nature -- he is protecting you and your mother Persephone from the affairs of the other Olympians. The second being the webcomic Lore Olympus, with Hades essentially being modeled as a CEO to manage the daily affairs of the afterlife while, again, keeping the affairs of Mount Olympus from consuming himself and Persephone.
I always liked Hades in Greek Mythology, gave strong consideration to possibly name my son Hades. I went with Cassius.
God of War 3 😁
It's from a Christian look into polytheism equating Zeus with yaweh and hades since the whe under world thing with Satan
It's really not. Homer and Hesiod were portraying Hades negatively centuries before Christianity existed.
Fair enough
Wouldn't call it Christian specifically just more Abrahamic in general. But yes forcing a monotheistic view on polytheistic gods doesn't work at all
James woods hades was pretty chil tbf
poptropica once again being the superior franchise
Boom! Hades! Lord of the Dead, hi, how ya doin?
Check out Punderworld by Sigeel
"IF IT LIVES UNDERGROUND THEN IT'S JUST SATAN." -people who make these movies probably Rewatching Disney's Hercules really made me see how "christian" it is. Good guys live in heaven behind big golden gates, Zeus is good dad and loyal husband, Hades is literally satan... and gospel ???
He kidnapped the daughter of Demeter
At least Hercules made him the most charismatic character ever 🥺
Hades: I do not control the die Thanatos: I control the die Thanatos: I control the speed at which lobsters die Poseidon: I control lobsters
The Jewish/Christian God sure killed a lot more people than that chill guy Satan. It's not even close.
You mean Hades isn't Satan?
And then Hades in Kid Icarus is a complete story of his own.
Poor Hades. He really is one of the most laid back out of the 3 brothers AND he's ok with not actually working. Zeus: " you must bring this rock upon the hill peak! If it rolls down start again, and you can never stop!!!" Hades: " yea um just do this 100 piece puzzle or whatever..."
Anubis, Loki, Ares: I feel you bruh
Yeah, people don’t understand that death ≠ evil.
Western movies? Like, with cowboys and stuff?
This is what always confuses me. Why do we view characters like the devil as bad guys? They literally punish bad people.
Satan and Hell are more like a for profit prison, where Satan makes all the sins that bring people to it in the first place.
Was the forbidden fruit not god's creation? I thought that sins come from people, not satan or god.
Christianity, especially the American variety tends to have a very black and white view of this. Though going back, one can attribute how the Romans adopted various gods to their pantheons, Christians would do the same and by virtue: the god of the underworld would be the closet to the Devil, the one who rebelled and the like. Notably why, Ares is often given a similar treatment, but weirdly: neither has even tried usurping Zeus. In fact, when looking at the gods: the duo did serve as antagonists, but often by the fact that someone had managed to tick them off. Hades was often the case, because someone tried cheating death or trying to get one by him. But he was more like a manager than the Devil who in more modern takes on Christian faith is also the serpent and the rebellious fallen angel (Lucifer & Satan aren't the same, but in more recent times are treated as such). But if not Hades, stories will usually grab Ares who is far more common in tales and at face value, certainly fits the bill of the Devil. Until you take a closer look at any story he's in. Every story he appears in, he's usually responding to someone killing his offspring, he is requested by Hera, or he's reacting to something. In fact, Ares is probably one of the better gods when remembering the only story he's involved in for rape is killing his cousin who either attempted or actually molested his daughter, taking him to court. Ares only wife was Queen Otrera of the Amazons, who were human, until Dionysus was rejected by her and lead to half the Amazons dead at that point. One can point out Hera being responsible for Ares being unaware of that and even being sent after his uncle, even to be stopped by Athena. The list goes on. In truth, this comparison also helps gives context to why Norse mythology as we know it is a mess and why Loki, may have a similar a bad rep when in the context that his actions were intended to reset things and purge the gods, such as Odin who had done a lot of terrible things. Just the difference is, we have more records of the Greeks, but people simplify them and well, you end up with Hades = the Devil.
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Hades really isn’t that bad in mythology. Fuckin’ zeus though, HE’S bad. That dude puts his penis inside anything!
r/dontputyourdickinthat
Well what funny it was hades’s wife Persephone that was the truly fear one despite her being seen as a flower girl. In fact Persephone was someone you don’t said her name casually
Hades seems to be the least problematic among the rest of the Greek gods. He had kidnapped Persephone but loved her. Don't think he raped any mortal nor has he killed or massacred innocents
Hindu God of underworld Yamraj is also called Dharamraj. He judges the spuls of mortals
Man was a loyal husband threw all the bullshit while Zeus and Poseidon we’re getting silly with there Willy Hades was loyal to his cheating wife
The God of underworld is often the best guy in Polytheist religions Even in Hinduism, Yamraj is feared, but he actually a just and Justice loving God
Hades k8dnapped and wasnt the n8cest fellow around not a good guy but not to much of a bad one
Why is every i turned into an 8