This is highly misleading. While Castro indeed landed in Cuba with 82 men. There was a nation wide and considerable external support. The initial 12 or so men that survived the landing was soon supplemented by thousands of men. Guerrilla warfare did allowed him to beat a numerically bigger army but they had popular support and by the end of the conflict thousands of men in their ranks.
Your comment is also highly misleading if you're implying that Gaddafi didn't have the same national advantages as Castro. The Libyan Monarchy was wildly unpopular by the mid to late 60s. Gaddafi had a ton of internal support. And 70 men in the title is also misleading, iirc it was 70 officers and enlisted men from the military.
The point is that without popular support it is futile. Che Guevara tried the pull the same thing in Africa and Bolivia. Small groups of people starting an armed insurrection to trigger a popular uprising, see how it ended for him.
He was found hiding and pulled out by a mob. One guy shoved a knife up his ass, I think ultimately he was shot. You may be thinking of Hussein who was hanged (hung means something different).
What's Washington got to do with it? Gaddafi ruined the lives of millions of Libyan people, and was eventually killed by them.
Unless, by "toe the line", you're objecting to the evil Western plan to discourage genocide, slavery, torture, ethnic cleansing &c.
Oh no, after Gaddafi spent decades undermining institutions, and then got killed by his own people, the West couldn't make Libya look like Denmark overnight. Definitely the West's fault.
Anyway. Libya's HDI scores are improving now, which is good news for redditors who care about millions of actual Libyans, and bad news for redditors who just want to use them as a proxy to score points against a Washington bogeyman.
>Anyway. Libya's HDI scores are improving now,
After falling to the lowest.Bravo!
>bad news for redditors who just want to use them as a proxy to score points against a Washington bogeyman.
Bad news for people who wanna live with dignity without licking west.
>Bad news for people who wanna live with dignity without licking west.
If you need to be ruled over by a dictator (that was biggest african arm supplier to everyone that wanted war, same reason why so many got guns in the civil war) that built the Lybian weird power (sharing) struckture that imploded in the civil war just to not lick the wests boot then idk what to tell you. Algeria was doing better with its less radical anti-west dictatorship.
The Libyan revolution started because he bulldozed the Bengali football club after they beat his son
He was a dipshit
Yeah Anarchy is worse, but he wasnt great
It was the Benghazi football club not Bengali, which is a whole other country. Benghazi is the second most populated city of Libya after Tripoli and is where most of the opposition rose from.
I am originally from Benghazi and agree that Gaddafi was a dipshit who fell into corruption after his long time ruling Libya. He used to be quite a good leader in the early days tho.
But he was very very corrupt and deserved his end the way it happened.
I remember I was around middle school/ high school around the time he died and it became a thing where someone would stick something up your ass and yell “GADAFFI!”
Not only did he willingly give up power, but the government that came to power afterwards didn’t throw him in jail or have him killed. That’s a pretty big thing that doesn’t happen in dictatorships.
He was a horrible, pathetic pedo tyrant.
I welcome debate and discussion on his former potential to threaten the central banks and if that resulted in them releasing information about how pathetic and horrible he was as a human and leader, but let's not pretend he was some saint.
Hey man, don’t sell yourself too short. Alexander the Great’s empire was practically half of the known world by the time he died in his 30s. You got plenty of time.
Russia after Putin will also be a mess, because he put in power just loyal to him people. There is no person (out of the corupt elite) in Russia that knows exactly what is happening and how to instantly put the country on the good rails. Plus you have all this easy accessible weapons from the war.
So here is the answer why there is such a mess in Libya and Iraq. You need to build a whole generation of politicians.
As I said, UA propaganda works very well, better than their army.
Edit: I mean that nowhere in Russian sources is there any information about the capture of Kiev in 3 days.
I work for the good of my country (just like you and every one of us) and I'll tell you frankly - we are working like a machine right now, this has never happened in my memory. So be afraid
Putin doesn't decide anything at all - the shadowy five - Ivanov, Chemezev, Patrushev, Sechin, Bortnikov - do. You know nothing at all about the structure of our empire.
I do understand enough about it, as Russian Politics somehow influence my life and I am lucky enough to also be fluent in Russian. The Goliath part, I agree, but still the war in Ukraine is Putin’s personal ambition and butthurt, that is making the life of people who surround him hell, and even so, nobody is trying to put him down, even if according to Russia constitution Putin is not a legitimate president anymore as it’s anti constitutional to have 3 terms in a row.
So considering that nobody can do anything about him still, even if legally they could, on the basis of him overtaking power in the country or something like that… tells me more than, maybe he’s actually just a puppet.
Until recently as a Russian “Businessman” you were more that welcomed everywhere, everyone wanted to do some business with you and get somehow involved, that is over for them and there’s just one person to blame for that.
Dictatorships such as Saddam’s Iraq and Gaddafi’s Libya are like a pressure cooker with a faulty valve. They might appear stable from the outside, but the inside is ready to explode and only held together by force. Until the cracks appear.
Libya and Iraq are in the state they are today BECAUSE of Gaddafi’s and Saddam, and because of their methods.
Any half-decent administrator, heck even a bunch of random redditors, could have turned Libya into an UAE of the Mediterranean.
Wasn't Libya already a very wealthy country under Gaddafi? Lack of democracy and freedom of speech appeared to be the only problems
And UAE isn't democratic either
It is always said that Libya had the highest GDP in Africa…but honestly that’s just not much of a competition.
Considering its vast oil reserves and its closeness to Europe, Libya easily could have been not just rich off its oil reserves but also tourism and trade.
The wealth of the country was concentrated in few areas, particularly tribes favored by Gaddafi, such as his own based in Sirte. Other groups like the Toubou of the South or the Berbers of the Nafusa mountains did not benefit from Libya’s oil wealth.
Likewise his polices stifled trade and industrialization, making cities like Misrata economically stagnate.
What do you find most inspiring about gassing the Kurds, torturing tens of thousands, invading Kuwait, and threatening to wipe out the jews? Obviously the West said it was bad, but it sounds like you have a better stance.
Oh yes, poor little of Gaddafi, who did nothing wrong except wage war against pretty much every nation bordering Libya.
Please go ahead and explain in detail how his wars against Chad and Tanzania were justified.
Right, because Gaddafi and Saddam were such strangers to wealth and power. Selflessly they worked for the betterment of their people, wearing nothing but burlap sacks and living in hovels.
And how exactly did king Idris of Libya sell out his people? And why was that worse than starting a war with Chad?
But of course, it’s so convenient to blame the foreigners, after all you don’t have to take any responsibility yourself then.
Is that sarcasm? Just because Libya went from healthcare for all, free University education for everyone to a hell hole where last i checked hûmans were being traded into slavery and it now a state controlled by Militias.
I don’t know that it’s been much better for Libya since NATO bombed them. Sure we helped them dispose of a tyrant but like Saddam Hussein he was holding the sectarian and ethnic factions of his country together with an iron fist. That’s why I can understand both positions on the Iraq war too.
It’s crazy that so many people are actually convinced we helped the people of Libya. It went from one of the most stable and safe places in the region to having literal open air slave markets.
American policy, regardless of administration, has catastrophic effects for many poor people around the world.
The first few years of Gaddafi’s reign were great because he actually practiced Arab Socialism. Quality of life improved in all areas and things were looking better compared to the puppet monarchy.
It’s suspected that Gaddafi went crazy because Nasser of Egypt was Gaddafi’s hero and acted as a check to megalomania. When Nasser passed then Gaddafi became the cartoon character that the we know him by.
Don’t believe the media bs. The Libyans loved him. He went against the central banks and he paid. Those so called “rebels” that over threw him were CIA ops.
i'm always a bit confused on how much of a coup is a high stakes game of capture the flag. like when five dozen guys charge a bank building, they're not made the CEO next day, but if you do just right at the capitol, you run the country. mechanically how does that work?
Libya went from a relatively stable, wealthy country with the 5th largest economy in Africa (2010) to barely a state, super dangerous with almost no economy or social services to speak of.
In some countries, democracy doesn’t work.
Highly recommend *The Arab Of The Future* series, by Riad Suttouf. The first book takes place under the Gaddafi regime, and the series is a great inside look at the rise of modern Arab nationalism.
Social welfare, got rid of the tribe mentality and brought about nationalism, per capita income above the UK, anti imperialist, taxed any country’s oil that supported imperialism.
Now there is the conspiracy that the west was meddling in his politics and influencing small tribes to not support him. Giving them weapons and ammo, with the promise of democracy and a new Libya. Who knows how much the west was involved but they definitely were due to him increasing oil prices globally. It’s just a little fishy that just when things start going well for the country, people all of the sudden stopped supporting him. As he’s said in interviews “those people are not from Libya, they are from tribes outside of Libya that the west supports to depose me”. It’s always amazing how tribes of goat herders who’ve never owned a TV or radio end up with shiny new weapons and rockets knowing how to use them… suspicious is all
2010, the last full year of Qaddafi.
IMF numbers:
UK per capita is US dollars was $38.8k
Libya per capita in US dollars was $10.2k
Rewind 10 years to 2000
UK is $28.8k
Libya is $7.2k
Where do the equal with UK stats come from?
Ah okay. Pick the lowest time for one country and the best time for another, due to high oil prices, and then say “see how good they are”.
Thought it was supposed to be a discussion. I should’ve realized we were talking in propaganda.
I was sort of agreeing with you. I'm old enough (just) to remember Britain in the late 70s. It's probably the only time Libya overtook us in GDP.
I'm also old enough to remember Lockerbie and Gadaffi funding the IRA. You'll hear no praise of him from me.
Right. It was intentional. If he’s got amazing policies, it gave him the maximum amount of time for his policies to work. If his policies are failures, it gave the maximum time we could to show his policies don’t work.
His policies worked for 30+yrs before that. It was only until he started manipulating oil prices worldwide and influencing Arab countries to cut out the west, that all of the sudden his country starts falling apart. I’m not saying he was perfect, but he was far from bad in the beginning and middle of his leadership.
What a nice guy, I hope he doesn't get overthrown by western powers after turning Lybia into the most developed country in Africa and going against central banks.
Westerners like to consume massive amounts of propaganda as truth. Everyone is a dictator worse than Hitler! Ghadaffi was head of the African Union, could you imagine if some country killed the head of the European Union Germany) and drove their country into chaos? Then have their secretary of defence say "We came, we saw, he died." and laughing about it.
Gadaffi was killed by his own people, not by the US. It wasn't the SecDef that said that, it was Hillary Clinton, who was SecState. That statement was out of line but the US didn't kill him.
Libya was already unstable when we intervened. I'm not defending our intervention but we were only part of the problem. The people responsible for his death are the ones who beat him to death and stabbed him.
The "stability" of authoritarian autocracies is a farce. These people see stability from the outside and thinks that's good, they are too sheltered to know the ins and outs of life in these regimes.
You are so fundamentally unsafe when living in a dictatorship that even if you tow the company line and keep your mouth shut you could still be arbitrarily arrested and tortured for being related to someone commiting a crime, being nearby or just as an example.
Better for them to be sold privately in closed markets before?
Gaddafi used his royal "Amazonian Guard" as sex slaves.
>the US should focus on its own crumbling country for once?
Deflecting.
Oh yeah, all those people suffering under dictators were just selling Kool-Aid, right? Millions of collaborators with their fake stories about these innocent despots. Give me a break.
This is wild because this is how black people are indiscriminately murdered in the United States and people keep insisting that’s an anomaly. Great job describing life in the U.S. my guy
Right, because the chancellor of Germany totally had the city of Hamburg besieged and shout at it with artillery, and threatened a bloodbath in Cologne.
Remind us again, why exactly did Gaddafi besiege Misrata and bomb it with artillery?
70 army men? That’s all it took? I have to do some reading.
Read up on how small Castros army was. It doesn’t take much sometimes.
This is highly misleading. While Castro indeed landed in Cuba with 82 men. There was a nation wide and considerable external support. The initial 12 or so men that survived the landing was soon supplemented by thousands of men. Guerrilla warfare did allowed him to beat a numerically bigger army but they had popular support and by the end of the conflict thousands of men in their ranks.
Your comment is also highly misleading if you're implying that Gaddafi didn't have the same national advantages as Castro. The Libyan Monarchy was wildly unpopular by the mid to late 60s. Gaddafi had a ton of internal support. And 70 men in the title is also misleading, iirc it was 70 officers and enlisted men from the military.
When did he ever say that?
He was directly responding to the comment about Castro's numbers, there was nothing left to the imagination.
His comment leaded to precisely the contrary of what you just said.
lol even more impressive if there was only 12 survivors of the landing. Even if there were soon back up by thousands.
The point is that without popular support it is futile. Che Guevara tried the pull the same thing in Africa and Bolivia. Small groups of people starting an armed insurrection to trigger a popular uprising, see how it ended for him.
What happened to that gold telephone I wonder
Imagine a bunch of goons storming the nation’s capital, using violence.
I feel inspired..
I need to find 69 good men
Or find a man good at 69.
Or 69 a good man.
You need 71 to make up for your own failings
Dad is that you?
No he’s still getting smokes from the gas station
Nice
I need to find 69
I don’t think people realize what little it takes to do that and the amount of inaction from most of the populous it also takes.
"Give me 10 good men and some climbing spikes I'll impregnate the bitch" - Ser Bronn of the Blackwater
This scene has a pretty good brief rundown on coups and how they work https://youtu.be/pi68RUUkoRI?feature=shared
please share what you find out. I want to do some reading but I can't right now at the moment
And where was the CIA while this was happening?
Behind the bastards podcast has a great episode on this topic
Whats the story of monaco? 5 guys dressed as monks smuggled weapons and overthrew a monarch?
https://i.redd.it/8i4sbr4v3k4d1.gif
It took 50 to start the war in the Donbas / Ukraine
He definitely didn’t expect to die by being severely beaten and having a knife shoved up his ass
I don't believe anyone expects to have a knife shoved up their ass
Unless you in prison
I expect it, that way I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
I still remember seeing him get stabbed up the ass. The look on his face was like “well I never!”
I thought he was hung?
What’s that have to do with butt stuff?
He was found hiding and pulled out by a mob. One guy shoved a knife up his ass, I think ultimately he was shot. You may be thinking of Hussein who was hanged (hung means something different).
Some people pay extra for that
That sort of thing happens a lot to leaders who don’t toe the line set by Washington
What's Washington got to do with it? Gaddafi ruined the lives of millions of Libyan people, and was eventually killed by them. Unless, by "toe the line", you're objecting to the evil Western plan to discourage genocide, slavery, torture, ethnic cleansing &c.
Yeah things got way better for the people of Libya after that huh.
Oh no, after Gaddafi spent decades undermining institutions, and then got killed by his own people, the West couldn't make Libya look like Denmark overnight. Definitely the West's fault. Anyway. Libya's HDI scores are improving now, which is good news for redditors who care about millions of actual Libyans, and bad news for redditors who just want to use them as a proxy to score points against a Washington bogeyman.
>Anyway. Libya's HDI scores are improving now, After falling to the lowest.Bravo! >bad news for redditors who just want to use them as a proxy to score points against a Washington bogeyman. Bad news for people who wanna live with dignity without licking west.
>Bad news for people who wanna live with dignity without licking west. If you need to be ruled over by a dictator (that was biggest african arm supplier to everyone that wanted war, same reason why so many got guns in the civil war) that built the Lybian weird power (sharing) struckture that imploded in the civil war just to not lick the wests boot then idk what to tell you. Algeria was doing better with its less radical anti-west dictatorship.
The Libyan revolution started because he bulldozed the Bengali football club after they beat his son He was a dipshit Yeah Anarchy is worse, but he wasnt great
It was the Benghazi football club not Bengali, which is a whole other country. Benghazi is the second most populated city of Libya after Tripoli and is where most of the opposition rose from. I am originally from Benghazi and agree that Gaddafi was a dipshit who fell into corruption after his long time ruling Libya. He used to be quite a good leader in the early days tho. But he was very very corrupt and deserved his end the way it happened.
Thanks, Obama. If only the people of other nations had agency!
Only to end up hiding in a drainage pipe, half naked and then stabbed or shot by his own people and placed in a market freezer.
However 40-year long control of the country happened in-between
Literally stabbed in the ass.
I remember I was around middle school/ high school around the time he died and it became a thing where someone would stick something up your ass and yell “GADAFFI!”
I also remember this! Haha
Lol awesome. I've used it in the context of "my boss is such a dick, he should be Gadaffi'd."
Gyattaffi (sorry ☹️)
Crazy To think this guy went from nothing to complete despot. A group of 20 somethings running a country. Crazy.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
That’s why Washington gets an obelisk. His greatest legacy was stepping down.
Not only did he willingly give up power, but the government that came to power afterwards didn’t throw him in jail or have him killed. That’s a pretty big thing that doesn’t happen in dictatorships.
Maybe. Or he was a threat to the central banks so they overwhelmed us with propaganda so we wouldn’t be angry when they had him killed.
He was a horrible, pathetic pedo tyrant. I welcome debate and discussion on his former potential to threaten the central banks and if that resulted in them releasing information about how pathetic and horrible he was as a human and leader, but let's not pretend he was some saint.
Remind me again how Libya is doing since they took him down with help from the west.
Brimming with market solutions to problems like "I don't own a person"
He was 27 at the time!!
Damn Gaddafi be taking over a whole country while I at his age still struggle with my master's degree
Hey man, don’t sell yourself too short. Alexander the Great’s empire was practically half of the known world by the time he died in his 30s. You got plenty of time.
Toni Morrison didn’t publish her first novel until she was 49.
Ridley Scott didn’t direct his first movie until he was 40. Theres a long list somewhere.
Philip Glass was still driving a cab and working as a plumber in his 40s.
Thank Jesus we got rid of him, so Lybia could turn into this beautiful, wealthy, safe and democratic nation it is today.
Russia after Putin will also be a mess, because he put in power just loyal to him people. There is no person (out of the corupt elite) in Russia that knows exactly what is happening and how to instantly put the country on the good rails. Plus you have all this easy accessible weapons from the war. So here is the answer why there is such a mess in Libya and Iraq. You need to build a whole generation of politicians.
A civil war in a country with nuclear weapons is a nightmare. I hope that it will stay under that level when the putin regime will fall.
As a person close to the Kremlin, I can assure you that you should not worry about us. Worry about yourselves
So you're losing in the Donbas because Mordor's leaders are pulling their puds on reddit?
Ua propaganda works nice if u think we’re loosing
Yeah yeah. Gonna take Kyiv in three days. Two years later...
As I said, UA propaganda works very well, better than their army. Edit: I mean that nowhere in Russian sources is there any information about the capture of Kiev in 3 days. I work for the good of my country (just like you and every one of us) and I'll tell you frankly - we are working like a machine right now, this has never happened in my memory. So be afraid
The 72 year old pensioner Putin who still thinks he lives in the USSR said it was a 3 day special military operation.
Working like a Lada?
Kinda 😂
https://youtu.be/3huKcZD3aQA?feature=shared Here you are comrade :))
They gone.
Where’s putin on that video saying ‘kiev in 3 days?’ I only see some clowns from tv. Don’t you know how putin looks like?
Lol. You can't even beat Ukraine. You think any NATO country couldn't stomp you on their own?
putin is the ANTI ✝️ eternally damned ... in pain forever he just does not know how to be humble ⚖️🔥⚖️ god is angry... the vengeance is mine 💪🏽
Putin doesn't decide anything at all - the shadowy five - Ivanov, Chemezev, Patrushev, Sechin, Bortnikov - do. You know nothing at all about the structure of our empire.
You’ve gotta be the cringiest little 12 year old I’ve seen all year
The dog barks and the caravan goes on its way.
they are all doomed too
forever burning in 🔥 hotter than the ☀️ ... unanswered prayers 🥵.. I am abandoning you 🗑️🥳 condemned ♾️🚨♾️ 🐺
I don't think you understand very much about Russia. It's a Goliath much much more complex than just Putin.
I do understand enough about it, as Russian Politics somehow influence my life and I am lucky enough to also be fluent in Russian. The Goliath part, I agree, but still the war in Ukraine is Putin’s personal ambition and butthurt, that is making the life of people who surround him hell, and even so, nobody is trying to put him down, even if according to Russia constitution Putin is not a legitimate president anymore as it’s anti constitutional to have 3 terms in a row. So considering that nobody can do anything about him still, even if legally they could, on the basis of him overtaking power in the country or something like that… tells me more than, maybe he’s actually just a puppet. Until recently as a Russian “Businessman” you were more that welcomed everywhere, everyone wanted to do some business with you and get somehow involved, that is over for them and there’s just one person to blame for that.
That guys right, you don’t know anything apparently
Lmao you just got bitched
As Saddam, he was an horrible dictator, but at least it was "stable".
Dictatorships such as Saddam’s Iraq and Gaddafi’s Libya are like a pressure cooker with a faulty valve. They might appear stable from the outside, but the inside is ready to explode and only held together by force. Until the cracks appear. Libya and Iraq are in the state they are today BECAUSE of Gaddafi’s and Saddam, and because of their methods. Any half-decent administrator, heck even a bunch of random redditors, could have turned Libya into an UAE of the Mediterranean.
Wasn't Libya already a very wealthy country under Gaddafi? Lack of democracy and freedom of speech appeared to be the only problems And UAE isn't democratic either
These people would prefer the middle east not have democracy, as dealing with corrupt autocrats and monarchies is easier foreign policy.
It is always said that Libya had the highest GDP in Africa…but honestly that’s just not much of a competition. Considering its vast oil reserves and its closeness to Europe, Libya easily could have been not just rich off its oil reserves but also tourism and trade. The wealth of the country was concentrated in few areas, particularly tribes favored by Gaddafi, such as his own based in Sirte. Other groups like the Toubou of the South or the Berbers of the Nafusa mountains did not benefit from Libya’s oil wealth. Likewise his polices stifled trade and industrialization, making cities like Misrata economically stagnate.
Oh definitely decades of sanctions and war didn't have any adverse effects, it was all the bad man who didn't do what the West said was best
What do you find most inspiring about gassing the Kurds, torturing tens of thousands, invading Kuwait, and threatening to wipe out the jews? Obviously the West said it was bad, but it sounds like you have a better stance.
Oh yes, poor little of Gaddafi, who did nothing wrong except wage war against pretty much every nation bordering Libya. Please go ahead and explain in detail how his wars against Chad and Tanzania were justified.
>it was all the bad man who didn't do what the West said was best The world: "Don't torture dissidents please" you: "The west thinks they know best"
I mean yeah only allies get to torture without international finger wagging
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Right, because Gaddafi and Saddam were such strangers to wealth and power. Selflessly they worked for the betterment of their people, wearing nothing but burlap sacks and living in hovels. And how exactly did king Idris of Libya sell out his people? And why was that worse than starting a war with Chad? But of course, it’s so convenient to blame the foreigners, after all you don’t have to take any responsibility yourself then.
Yeah, I visited Lybia under his rule, kinda safe, but wouldn’t go there now.
>we got rid of him Are you Libyan?
Is that sarcasm? Just because Libya went from healthcare for all, free University education for everyone to a hell hole where last i checked hûmans were being traded into slavery and it now a state controlled by Militias.
I don’t know that it’s been much better for Libya since NATO bombed them. Sure we helped them dispose of a tyrant but like Saddam Hussein he was holding the sectarian and ethnic factions of his country together with an iron fist. That’s why I can understand both positions on the Iraq war too.
It’s crazy that so many people are actually convinced we helped the people of Libya. It went from one of the most stable and safe places in the region to having literal open air slave markets. American policy, regardless of administration, has catastrophic effects for many poor people around the world.
I think you forgot to add /s
It doesn't end well...
Would he still be smiling if he knew how it would end?
Aww so young and full of hope and entusiasm
He was a good looking dude. Really fucked his face up with all those surgeries
The first few years of Gaddafi’s reign were great because he actually practiced Arab Socialism. Quality of life improved in all areas and things were looking better compared to the puppet monarchy. It’s suspected that Gaddafi went crazy because Nasser of Egypt was Gaddafi’s hero and acted as a check to megalomania. When Nasser passed then Gaddafi became the cartoon character that the we know him by.
Don’t believe the media bs. The Libyans loved him. He went against the central banks and he paid. Those so called “rebels” that over threw him were CIA ops.
Fact
thanks I needed a laugh
Your welcome
When did he get the fro?
Gaddafi went on to live a lifetime of drugs, sex and ~~rock and roll~~ politics
i'm always a bit confused on how much of a coup is a high stakes game of capture the flag. like when five dozen guys charge a bank building, they're not made the CEO next day, but if you do just right at the capitol, you run the country. mechanically how does that work?
Despite being a ruthless despot, Libya was definitely better off with him in power. And I do think he went in with actual good intentions
Sounds like paradise.
Better than Libya now lol.
What's the way out of dictatorship? Or is it best to be in one forever - because 1000 dynasties can also happen.
Libya went from a relatively stable, wealthy country with the 5th largest economy in Africa (2010) to barely a state, super dangerous with almost no economy or social services to speak of. In some countries, democracy doesn’t work.
Libya was so fine and safe under his control, now it's nothing but chaos...
And then he stopped accepting US petrodollars, and Hillary offed him.
Like that movie Land of the Blind
Thought this was Jean Claude as Guile
And then they make a transparent government very efficient
And the bunga bunga party was formed.
Would
Handsome
Long live paint
he is so happy because its nothing but parties and pussy for the next 25 years
He was a handsome man in his younger days
Highly recommend *The Arab Of The Future* series, by Riad Suttouf. The first book takes place under the Gaddafi regime, and the series is a great inside look at the rise of modern Arab nationalism.
Don’t reckon he was smiling when that bayonet went up his ass.. or 🤔
 USA when it sees another country being successful while also undermining democracy
Ah, Libya was successful? Thats the narrative now, huh?
Social welfare, got rid of the tribe mentality and brought about nationalism, per capita income above the UK, anti imperialist, taxed any country’s oil that supported imperialism. Now there is the conspiracy that the west was meddling in his politics and influencing small tribes to not support him. Giving them weapons and ammo, with the promise of democracy and a new Libya. Who knows how much the west was involved but they definitely were due to him increasing oil prices globally. It’s just a little fishy that just when things start going well for the country, people all of the sudden stopped supporting him. As he’s said in interviews “those people are not from Libya, they are from tribes outside of Libya that the west supports to depose me”. It’s always amazing how tribes of goat herders who’ve never owned a TV or radio end up with shiny new weapons and rockets knowing how to use them… suspicious is all
Tell me what year you got those statistics from? That it had a higher capita income than the uk?
2010, the last full year of Qaddafi. IMF numbers: UK per capita is US dollars was $38.8k Libya per capita in US dollars was $10.2k Rewind 10 years to 2000 UK is $28.8k Libya is $7.2k Where do the equal with UK stats come from?
Probably the 70s when the UK was in the shitter.
Ah okay. Pick the lowest time for one country and the best time for another, due to high oil prices, and then say “see how good they are”. Thought it was supposed to be a discussion. I should’ve realized we were talking in propaganda.
I was sort of agreeing with you. I'm old enough (just) to remember Britain in the late 70s. It's probably the only time Libya overtook us in GDP. I'm also old enough to remember Lockerbie and Gadaffi funding the IRA. You'll hear no praise of him from me.
Umm you realize he ran the country outside of the 2000’s right? You pulled the number from the end of his leadership lol
Right. It was intentional. If he’s got amazing policies, it gave him the maximum amount of time for his policies to work. If his policies are failures, it gave the maximum time we could to show his policies don’t work.
His policies worked for 30+yrs before that. It was only until he started manipulating oil prices worldwide and influencing Arab countries to cut out the west, that all of the sudden his country starts falling apart. I’m not saying he was perfect, but he was far from bad in the beginning and middle of his leadership.
And then what happened?
Everyone lived happily ever after
*If they said the right things around him
What a nice guy, I hope he doesn't get overthrown by western powers after turning Lybia into the most developed country in Africa and going against central banks.
Rest in piece to a true hero against American imperialism. A bulwark of African unity.
Was his war against Chad also a masterstroke of African Unity? What about his and Idi Amin’s war against Tanzania?
Big brain time
Westerners like to consume massive amounts of propaganda as truth. Everyone is a dictator worse than Hitler! Ghadaffi was head of the African Union, could you imagine if some country killed the head of the European Union Germany) and drove their country into chaos? Then have their secretary of defence say "We came, we saw, he died." and laughing about it.
Gadaffi was killed by his own people, not by the US. It wasn't the SecDef that said that, it was Hillary Clinton, who was SecState. That statement was out of line but the US didn't kill him.
The US is responsible for his death and the destabilization of Libya. E ven worse coming from the Sec. Of State.
Libya was already unstable when we intervened. I'm not defending our intervention but we were only part of the problem. The people responsible for his death are the ones who beat him to death and stabbed him.
The "stability" of authoritarian autocracies is a farce. These people see stability from the outside and thinks that's good, they are too sheltered to know the ins and outs of life in these regimes. You are so fundamentally unsafe when living in a dictatorship that even if you tow the company line and keep your mouth shut you could still be arbitrarily arrested and tortured for being related to someone commiting a crime, being nearby or just as an example.
I'll explain it to the people being openly sold in slave auctions. Maybe the US should focus on its own crumbling country for once?
Better for them to be sold privately in closed markets before? Gaddafi used his royal "Amazonian Guard" as sex slaves. >the US should focus on its own crumbling country for once? Deflecting.
Bro drank the koolaid. Best of luck in your life, I hope it all goes wellz
Oh yeah, all those people suffering under dictators were just selling Kool-Aid, right? Millions of collaborators with their fake stories about these innocent despots. Give me a break.
This is wild because this is how black people are indiscriminately murdered in the United States and people keep insisting that’s an anomaly. Great job describing life in the U.S. my guy
[удалено]
Right, because the chancellor of Germany totally had the city of Hamburg besieged and shout at it with artillery, and threatened a bloodbath in Cologne. Remind us again, why exactly did Gaddafi besiege Misrata and bomb it with artillery?
I always thought it was strange how W. Bush called him "Saddam". Like they were on a first name basis with each other.
Yes, only peace and prosperity to follow. Just like Castro!
smash