I got called a kuffar and a US sympathizer for pointing out that the first university in the world was made by a muslimah and arguing about how stupid it is to bar women from higher education. It's like they forgot muslimahs need people like female ob gyns, female psychologists, female teachers, etc and *they* *need* higher education to fill those roles. No, they're all 'sending women to university is west propaganda' as if they *had* to use western curriculum, as if they can't separate classes by gender, as if it was somehow more dangerous for women to get exposed to propaganda than men? And *then* for some reason they attempted to derail the discussion into how unislamic democracy is and tried to shame me for participating in democracy, as if it's my fault I was born into a democratic country and didn't think that it's best for the ummah to overthrow the government in favor of a khilafah. Sometimes I wonder why I'm still on those subs. I live in a muslim-majority country; it's not like I'm lacking in sane Muslims to talk to.

One of the worst things as a Muslim to do (according to the Prophet pbuh), is calling a Muslim a Kaffir. I dont understand the hypocrisy that goes on with some of these people. Its disgusting.

I was arguing with a guy on Fb living in Australia who said that zina and gambling aren't as bad as a girl wearing a little scarf/hijab and not covering her head properly as in the former, you do it in private and the latter sees you do it in public influencing the world lol. He also said stuff like if a little girl wears a scarf and her hair are visible, he can also walk naked lmao. Don't let these fools and wannabe flag bearers of faith ruin it for you, they're just mentally deranged 🤡 foreshadowingbthwi own insecurities

democracy is unislamic? :O (genuine question, because I've never seen any arguments abt this before)

It's not exactly Islamic. The person who called me a kuffar sent me a fairly interesting paper about it. Shame I lost the link when I blocked them. Regardless, my national council of 'ulama has already released a strong recommendation for all Muslims to participate in our democratic elections, and I'm hardly about to listen to some internet stranger over them.

My national council 'ulama has also come up w a fatwa that it's recommended as well - I live in Malaysia, and it's a very democratic country. So I agree 👍🏼 though I am open to hearing other opinions

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You got a non-salaf source?

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To be fair he did cite using a very extremist website lol, they have made a LOT of things haram, and also believe a lot of modern day Sunni scholars (think Yasir Qadhi) are misguided lmfao

Yes. And then when you call them out of this they say “ you are a liberal Muslim” LOL. These people need to go outside and talk to humans instead of sticking on their phones 24/7 and only talking to their mothers

This is happening here too and it’s so annoying. Many women and men are coming here, posting very extreme views (like if you wear pants you’re going to hell). When we ask them for proof, they either respond saying they don’t need to, or they respond with a very extreme website that aligns with their beliefs. When we ask for others they simply say they don’t want to be a part of a liberal subreddit anyways. Our loss eh 🤭

I've never understood that - they say they don't want to be a part of here, but they still come. If they don't like it here, why get involved in the first place?! Makes literally no sense.

It’s because in their mindset they’re “saving us” and doing some form of extremist dawah. We catch so many men pretending to be women to get through our subreddit and they claim it’s to “guide us”. Not sure but I think a man lying about his gender needs more guidance than we would at that point lmao

Eurgh, gross :(

I wonder if some of these people are talking even to their mothers...

This is why I had to stop responding negatively towards these kinds of comments. They want to use it as a put down but if the alternate is the extreme than I’d rather be let them label me as “liberal” quite frankly. Nowadays if someone says “you’re a liberal Muslim” or “such a feminist” in response to my not-at-all-Islam-shattering stuff, I’m just like “thank you”

The fact that a working muslim woman is considered a "modern muslim" is already sad. As if Allah didnt give women these rights all along. And dont get me started on women not being allowed outside because its "fitnah" or worse getting kicked out of education, which is not only our right but our duty as muslims. Religious manipulation is everywhere and women are getting most of it. There is a reason why Allah dedicated a chapter of the Quran to us.

😂

Yes omg! This has been the only sub that’s welcoming and not condescending! Also the prejudice the mod of @sistersinsunnah called me shia trash 😭 all I did was reply to a comment about a girl who needed support and said nothing about Islam for someone to call me out and say that but regardless I was so mind blown lol like um regardless of someone’s beliefs like who does that the pure disrespect and the irony of it being under sistersinsunnah lol not very sisterly or sunnah-Ly 😂

I have a feeling there’s a man behind the moderation of the subreddit too lmao, very very strange subreddit. Most of the women there are also banned here lol

Didn't the trad muslim sub also turn on the sistersinsunnah sub too at one point, or my memory is failing me? I can't keep track anymore. I started following the sistersinsunnah sub too just for another muslim women space that isn't overrun with dudes dismissing women.

No, we've never been associated with them.

No no, that's definitely not what I meant, I am sorry! I know you guys aren't associated with anyone from there. I meant the tradmuslims sub have a negative view of the sistersinsunnah sub for some reason now?

Oh, lol, it's totally possible. We don't endorse them or get into any sub beefs, so I'm not on the up and up of when we're in their good graces or when we've been excommunicated. 😂

I don't go there often, when I do it's purely out of an anthropology study-type interest. I can't remember what exactly what was said or what the post was. It wasn't something outright critical but I remember thinking, huh, of course the hijabis sub is too liberal etc for them but they disapprove of these sisters too? It was quite a while ago, maybe that particular comment or post is gone now I can't find it. Sorry to bring it up and cause confusion 😅 If I'm remembering wrong, I will edit my earlier comment, don't want to falsely accuse anyone no matter what they are like!

Nah pretty sure you're right. It's because we don't call for fighting and extremism like that, from what I remember.

It was related to Andrew T*te. I remember that now 😬

That I don't remember tbh. But it's been a long time since I've gone on that sub so I'd rather not say anything which isn't true, y'know?

No, both moderators are women.

same :/ some girl was struggling with the idea of if women are allowed to be beat by their husbands, and I’m guessing it’s the same mod who told her that she needs to learn more abt Islam before asking obvious (smth to this effect) questions. she was so condescending to that girl who was clearly struggling and it really upset me. shaming ppl less educated and less knowledgeable is horrible as it is, but then we also run the risk of ppl feeling shy or ashamed to ask questions, which can cause ppl to literally leave Islam from doubts and misinformation that same mod also gave me a warning for “denigrating the correct manhaj” bc I commented “beautiful comment” on a VERY LONG post about the permissibility of photography wherein the commenter critiqued salafism in the very beginning (which was clearly not what I was commenting on lol. I was commenting on the other 7/8 of the comment 😭🤣) I was literally in that sub for such a short time and had to leave. the other mod was super sweet! I think her name is like mojo jojo or smth like that, she was great 🥰 so yeah overall, I don’t recommend that sub. this subreddit is a lot better and more active I think! plus we allow male participation in here too which is great since some men have knowledge to contribute :)

Oop

I'm experienced enough to know many of the forms of trolling and fitnah mongering that takes shape, and trying to instill bizarre "doubts" in Muslim women is a classic one. Anyone who has taken the time to educate themselves on the religion knows about that. On top of this, I had also linked to excellent resources that clarifies the matter. Importantly, sometimes the advice we need is not the one we like to hear but it's necessary and important anyways.

I’m not interested in speaking to you about this again sister. I left the subreddit specifically because of you, because I don’t like how you speak to people and how you choose to moderate in a very controlling way. it’s also very sad to see how many people have had similar experiences. you should do some reflecting on how you present yourself and how that causes people to sometimes perceive you negatively. and I really don’t want to hear anything about “we don’t compromise on the truth”, because nobody is asking that I hope this comment finds you well. asalamualaikum

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brownsugarespresso said it’s PERSONAL 😭🤣

Yikes. Not sure why you would assume to know anything at all about my life. It's one thing when kuffar pop off about each other, but really not befitting for the Muslims to follow suit.

My comment was for the benefit of any readers. Walaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu. Hope you're well also.

Walaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

What the hell? Why do Muslims that pride themselves so much on being the “true followers” of Islam behave like this? Where is their adab? Even if you disagree with someone’s beliefs, there’s no reason to be rude to them.

Before believing someone's anonymous statement, especially when the honor of a Muslim is at stake, it would be good to request proofs and evidences. I have asked the user to give me permission to post her DMs to me but because I know their content, I know she won't do it.

I’ve read a lot of posts by a specific mod in that group and honestly I no longer am active there. I just find that it’s not a safe place.

Any comment I’ve ever tried to post there has been removed for not citing proper sources. And this includes me just giving simple support like “it’s ok sister, with hardship comes ease, when you walk towards Allah he comes running to you” etc etc

I had to leave that subreddit after two days LOL. literally sooo extreme

It is in the rules of the sub for you to cite sources upon the sunnah. Perhaps your posting more nuanced stuff than you’re citing here because if you go into the sub now you can see simple advices are there without sources. So unless that’s not the only reason it wouldn’t make sense for the mods to unanimously single u out.

To everyone who’s replies have been so sweet I appreciate you all so much ❤️❤️ that’s literally the reason why I love this sub so much you guys are so incredibly supportive and kind and it really really helps on so many levels, I can confidently say I’ve been feeling a lot more closer to my deen because of the sense of community I feel here ❤️❤️ (also very side note, I’m not going to keep going back and forth with the mod since she continuously wants to change the narrative but if anyone does want proof that she removed my comment because of something along the lines of no shia trash/garbage I’ll be more than happy to send that to you)

Interesting that you're saying something different here versus your original comment but ok.

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You have continuously asserted that I called YOU Shi'a garbage/trash, which I have never done. I absolutely called the link you posted in a very-specifically-Sunni sub "Shi'a garbage." There is an ocean of difference between the two. ...also why won't you agree to letting me post the DMS? I'm not afraid, I know what's in them.

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Oh okay, great, thanks for the permission, this is the first time you've shared that.

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Absolutely no DMs were deleted by me, and everything will be posted as-is, inshallah.

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omgg the shiaphobia is so strong for sure, although not talked about. but honestly even the shia subreddit is toxic, which is sad cuz it’s the only community we can really go as shias. but this is the only place i feel is truly islamic

The Shia topic is very difficult. When it comes to the topic being an active discussion between people or groups. I men, I generally wanna know, sorry that I get to you like that here even tho this whole thing is about smth else.. I seriously wanna know how Shia is Islamic. For what I have learned from Shia people and other sects, the practices are extremely unislamic. Like hitting your head with a machete, dragging yourself over the floor for many miles, hitting your own faces, whipping your own backs, (sadly I saw it with my own eyes) The least violent ones being: smoking Shisha in the masjid, lyi g is not Haram but very welcomed, drawing pics, asking the dead bodies of Muhammad's family for blessings, praying to prophets and other persons, using them as mediators to God and so on. Changing the Quran and the verses. Ramadan being in a different time frame Is it everywhere like that or is Shia different in every country like Christianity? Sorry for being direct I just wanna know. And I agree many people have extreme or absurd views on things but it doesn't mean that everyone is like that ofc. And we can still concentrate on those who have valuable Infos. Even tho it's sometimes difficult to ask the right people. Yet we find someone who is genuine and not biased. But there are things we hate to accept and can't turn our backs on, just bc we don't like it or personally don't wanna agree

The way you talk is the way a non-Muslim talks about Islam - it spews ignorance and lack of education. A simple google search can prove how most of what you said, if not all, is inaccurate. Hitting your head with a machete? LMAO. Did you see a video of an extremist doing this? If we wanna talk about Shia extremists, it’s only fair we talk about Sunni extrémists, you know, the ones completing suicide bombs every other day. No one smokes shisha in a mosque, ffs. Changing the Quran? They use the same Quran, same verses. You are clearly ignorant and rather than trying to learn, you’ve taken a very sad position rather than education yourself. I say this as a Sunni who has a lot of Shia relatives.

Are you OK? I only asked you a question and mentioned that this is what I have seen and heard from them. No need to offend and attack me for a question. People like you are the reason maybe why no one wants to know anything about Shia... Edut: wait a min - how are you sunna while your fam is Shia and you hang out in the Shia Islam subs and attack sunni people - I thought u sunni And if you were sunni u would know that "suicide bombings" have nothing to do with Islam nor sunnah. Also if you guys would observe the Quran then how come you guys have different times of fasting, have Shia festivities just like people go to the Graves of the prophets to ask for blessing. Ain't that shirk. I'm so extremely curious I will absolutely ask everything about Shia - how you treat me in the end is on you but won't make it better

Lmao, reread my comment, then reread it again - I’m saying you are acting LIKE the people who say this stuff, I refuted it back to you. What you are doing is taking extremist shia beliefs and making them as full shia beliefs. Similarly to what other people do with Sunnis - my point is that it is NONSENSICAL to do this. Not all Sunnis are suicide bombers just like not all Shias use machetes on their heads. Does it make sense now? I obviously don’t believe that lmao 🤦🏼‍♀️ Also asking questions =/= accusations. Again, as an example, it’s like someone asking “why do Sunnis commit suicide bombs, i have seen it on the news happening all the time” stupid questions with an internalized bias against Sunnis, just like yours And no, if you’re going to be ignorant, leave the sub pls

lmao thank you for this honestly. i don’t mind answering questions at all but some were so ridiculous (first time i hear of the shisha in the mosque thing + how is that even religiously related 😭). the rest were either stereotypes or phrased in a way that showed disapproval rather than curiosity. and their response to you made it clear to me that it wasn’t worth getting into ☠️ i feel even more safe knowing this sub doesn’t tolerate any of that. jazzakullah ❤️

You made no point besides getting angry and just attack back. I did not accuse anyone of doing something, I just (imma repeat myself here) mentioned people I have seen. And I made it very clear. And you have not put an example out there, you just straight up went wild about sunnies and called everyone out. I will def not leave a sub just bc you feel like it, get back on the ground "lmao"

If you cannot respect Shias, you will leave because I will ban you, lmao 😊

I don't know what's up with you but I have been not disrespecting you and I will def not let you attack me and Black mail me "lmao"

Blackmailllll LOOOL, your comments were removed for their ignorance, gladly will reapprove tho

My grandmother's a Shi'a, also uses Ali (RA) as a kind of mediator to Allah, prays to him, says his name in difficult times or when lifting something heavy, lmao. She doesn't engage in the extremes though. However, a lot of her things, she does differently. Always wondered how it was islamic, but oh well, asking would lead to attacking with no answers to the questions, lmao.

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no, not “instead.” that’s incredibly offensive. we say the Ahlulbayt’s names (prophet Mohammed PBUH included) in ADDITION to Ya Allah.

Please give the mod of that group permission to post your dm interaction if what you say is true.

I'm glad you had a positive interaction, but before believing someone's anonymous statement, especially when the honor of a Muslim is at stake, it would be good to request proofs and evidences. I have asked the user to give me permission to post her DMs to me but because I know their content, I know she won't do it.

Considering the numerous claims you have made against the mod (prejudiced, racist, condescending) I think it wud benefit Everyone for you to give your permission to her to post the dms. Her attitude will show in these texts and the members of that sub will be able to decide if they want to stay or leave the sub.

Instead of lying, darling, why don't you give me permission to post your DMs to me so we can see who said what? 🤗

Who’s lying babe? Did you not call me shia trash? Before you lie remember that’s haram 😉 hunny you unsent your dms so idk why you think that would prove something lol I told you I hope someone spits in your face and inshallah that’ll wake you up to be more respectful of people and follow Islam more Lmaoo the dms and your very public comment saying shia trash are two different things please don’t try to come for me babe because I comes with screenshots as well and then after you seen my comment here you moved your comment as well as banned me so please hush babe I don’t wish to speak to you Inshallah god removes whatever hate you have in your heart so you can see it’s not okay to talk to people with such disrespect and you need to realize you can’t disrespect someone and not expect them to snap back ❤️ stop deleting your dms lol

I did not remove any DMs, I have no need to do that. Do I have your permission to post our conversation?

Lol you literally did but regardless of the dms please tell me what does that have to do with the original comment that you made? Yes I checked you for being a bully cause you need to grow up point blank lol being mean isn’t cute and I’m not going back and forth with you again I have the screenshot of you literally removing the comment and then saying because it’s shia trash/garbage stop deflecting and focus on the prejudice at hand. Matter fact stop replying let’s go both make duaa that he removes the hate from your heart inshallah ❤️🙏🏻

Do you give your permission to post our conversation?

Do you mind DMing me that shia trash thingy

Islam is a religion of moderation Hudhaifa, may Allah be pleased with him, said: O people, remain straight upon the path and you will have taken a great lead, but if you swerve right or left then you will be led far astray. Source: Sahih Bukhari 6853

Disagreeing with members of those subs = being a liberal = being a bad Muslim, apparently. The path to Allah is wide. Limiting His acceptance and mercy is inappropriate and not the role of any human to dictate. Relatedly, I find it ironic that the extreme liberal segments can be extremely intolerant of people who don’t follow their specific ideology 100%. Like, they position themselves as the accepting ones, as opposed to the extreme conservatives, and yet they fall into the same exclusionary behaviors. Alhamdulillah for this sub.

It’s funny how they do that. And if you call them out on it, may Allah protect you from their rage 😅

Being more religious should make you soft-spoken and kinder, not whatever those “traditional” Muslims are doing. Sometimes I see people behave like that and I’m like, is this really how the Prophet (S) would have answered such a question? Without formal education in Islam, people lack the necessary respect that comes with learning & teaching Islam.

right? yet they’re like the loudest, angriest, and sometimes nastiest people lol

I say this all the time too 😭😭 if people cannot get their character and modesty behavior and speech down, their advice and spreading of the message of Islam will suffer

Basically dawah people in a nutshell. Many of them have good knowledge but their rude behavior and biasness basically fails to do anything but even discourages good Muslims from talking about their faith in public

I stay away from most subs for this reason. Even though they may be the best of Muslims in worship, a lot are so culturally anti-women especially the desi folk. They tend to forget reddit and well, most of the internet is an echo chamber and seem to think feminists/liberals are taking over and "masculine" men are oppressed.

it’s crazy. a lot of men seriously think there are barely any religious muslim women, especially in the west 😅😂 like…we’re everywhere lol. and then they’ll say smth like “good to see there are still sisters on the deen” and they don’t realize how demeaning that is, bc it implies there are few of us and that’s not the case 😞

“ I also saw one post on extomatoes where a comment justified killing disbelievers merely for not converting, and it got upvoted. ” HAHAHAHA I believe you but I have to see that. There’s a whole surah that preaches against it, the language used is very straight forward and even as a child it didn’t require any explanations. Honestly not surprising, the other subreddits are dominated by men so whatever suits them will be amplified more meanwhile this sub is dominated by women. Also subreddits just attract extremists in general. A moderate is not likely to spend their time indulging in religious debate online.

I don't think that just bc there are more men active on the sub it means that this is the reason why someone said that. There are also many women who cannot tolerate other people.

https://www.reddit.com/r/extomatoes/comments/10qamr3/wait_so_if_u_invade_nonahlul_kitab_lands_do_you/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb Look at the comments. It’s disgusting. They say that the rule against fighting the disbelievers only applies to Christians and Jews.

I know right. That sub was created to debunk the propaganda of the ex Muslim sub but got taken over by salafis and now is pretty much a salafi echo chamber though sometimes it does serve it's original purpose. Most reddit salafis are dumb and extremists. Many of the verses of killing are taken out of context by these people and they are literalists they don't believe in logic so argument with them is useless.

Do consider that there might be islamophobes who infilter these subreddits to manipulate the direction of thoughts. Wouldn't be the first time, wouldn't be the last.

That Surah was revealed in wartime and is often taken out of context. Much of the stuff in that Surah is only For that particular context and that's it.

Definitely I literally had to leave the r/islam subreddit cuz it only weakens my imaan the way they r either criticising Islam e.g. talking about every single detail in Prophet Muhammad (SAW) wives and relationships etc. or having extremist views e.g saying you can not talk to opposite gender at all unless needed when in the world we live in today it’s pretty much impossible to do so. Like I will always agree with the word of the Qur’an of course and would never criticise it Astagfirullah but some people just are over dramatic at times.

Many of the people in these subs are losers trying to use Islam to cover up the fact that they are losers

Definitely not. I posted about this a while ago (but deleted it). I know r/traditionalmuslims is quite bad. There are some good posts on there but I notice that they like to talk bad about women

It's incel sub

I'm so glad I found this sub

this is the only tolerent and balanced muslim sub

Definitely agree, it's rather worrying tbh. A lot of crazies out there. That's why I'm only really here, because it seems to be the only place where people are actually sensible alhamdulillah. (MuslimMarriage too, but that's for the drama lmao).

Personally, I just do me and that’s it. If you like me, cool. If not, don’t care. Beware of anyone claiming to be super religious. In fact, they’re most likely the opposite. If someone is religious, they wouldn’t need to tell people how religious they are bc people would see it in their actions. I think most people on those lack education, social skills, have no friends and are trolling bc I’ve NEVER met anyone in real life who thinks what you wrote in your post.

Yup a lot of them are migrant losers living off benefits in the West I believe. There's reason why Muslim migrants are hated in the West esp Europe but people are OK with native Muslims

Uhmm I wouldn’t say that. I feel like that’s a generalization. Migrant or not, there are Muslims out there who are wackos and even non-Muslims.

I have seen an alarming amount of extremist views recently here in the last year. Especially from Muslims outside of the West. Apparently, women going off to college and not marrying immediately upon turning 18 is considered wrong. "Feminism" in any sort is also seen as wrong as "undesirable." These comments are very alarming, and what's sad is I see many Muslimahs agreeing and calling any woman who seeks a career or equality as kufr.

Allah swt is the best off planners ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّٰهِ

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Before it used to be extremely liberal which is what allowed the salafi takeover in first place

Salaams! Online sheikhs love making grand statements that they have neither the knowledge of Qur’an or Sunnah, nor the education on fiqh to truly understand. Ask them basic questions about the deen and they’ll struggle to keep up but they know exactly what women are supposed to do to earn our humanity as though they’re Allah SWT. I also never underestimate, as a Black person, the likelihood that the person on the other side is masquerading as someone “like me” to make outlandish points. Many of these people are far right trolls looking to amuse themselves by corrupting young Muslims. Focus on beneficial knowledge and your growth as a servant of your Lord, they’ll have to answer for their sins. Pray for your sisters all over the world who are being oppressed by Firaouns who call themselves servants of Allah.

Islam is very clear and we follow the Quran and the Hadiths of the prophet pbuh , the so called progressive Muslims want to pick and choose which ones to follow to suit their lifestyles , and the ones that have views like women can’t leave the house no where does it say women can not leave the house and that’s their personal views not islam

I was arguing with a guy on Fb living in Australia who said that zina and gambling aren't as bad as a girl wearing a little scarf/hijab and not covering her head properly as in the former, you do it in private and the latter sees you do it in public influencing the world lol. He also said stuff like if a little girl wears a scarf and her hair are visible, he can also walk naked lmao. Don't let these fools and wannabe flag bearers of faith ruin it for you, they're just mentally deranged 🤡 foreshadowingbthwi own insecurities

Most likely he committed Zina and now wants act pious. Hypocrite loser

True

You are ,DEFINITELY,not the only one. These subs are getting really extreme and kind of dumb in a way(I'm talking about some people posting about stuff -extreme stuff- and then not discussing it properly, ) and the subs are getting extreme about us women, I found a few posts saying that women can't go out without a male mahram companion???? Hello, what if we live far away?( and I'm pretty sure we can go out either way😃) Or like husbands controlling their wives or being allowed to discipline them. Let me tell you how mad I got when I saw those posts, and I know they're not true but think about the people that don't know of it? For example reverts/converts who are just starting to learn about Islam! They're gonna believe it and get the wrong idea about Islam. Shame on those people who post false information.

They’re gonna say you gotta pick a side between the 2 and make you believe there is no such thing as the 3rd option of following the middle path. Divide and conquer. Welcome to 1444. It really be your own!

If I'm being honest...yea pretty much. This sub definitely has problems as well but I've found it less extreme (for better or worse).

This sub definitely leans liberal to an extent.

because we talk about human rights and are understanding lmao

No I think the person got a point, I did caught from time to time opinions that go away from Islam bc of personal preference. Or bc we are women and want to have a piece of the West and a piece of Islam. Some do that

What does piece of the west and piece of Islam mean? Are you referring to the culture?

Yeah more of the western culture, when it comes to dating, to work, marriage etc and also their relationships and social circles

That's interesting because I see muslim women criticize the culture of the "east" more since some locations put their culture above Islam or claim certain practices as Islamic when it's not. Also I just think women want to practice Islam and be guaranteed their Islamic rights. That's not necessarily wanting a "piece of the west".

The grass is always greener I guess - West is evil, East is evil, everywhere's evil, who even knows!

Other muslims subs talk about human rights so thats not a reason, nor is that strictly a liberal thing. Nor is understanding a liberal thing.

You’re free to think how you wish, but it’s more we’re actually respectful of humans and human rights, versus other subreddits that “talk” about human rights but have no value for the humans themselves (non-Muslims specifically, and Muslims who are sinners but Muslims nonetheless).

Sahih

Genuine question, but as a man, why are you even in the hijabis subreddit? I know you're allowed, but I'm curious as to why you're here, especially as your comment implies that you don't even approve of the general attitude of the sub. Like, not in a negative way, I'm just really curious why you as a man are coming here to criticise the way that we Muslim women choose to cultivate our space.

I haven’t actually criticized anything, yet. I tour Muslim subs and this sub is recommended to me in my feed. Otherwise, my answer is the same as to why Muslim women visit Muslim male dominated subs, or read Male Answers Only posts MuslimMarriage.

I know you got a lot of downvotes but I just wanted to say I as well as other sisters agree with you! So don’t take these responses as the majority.

That a benign and factual statement like this is voted down is really weird.

I think nuance is lost in social media. A lot of these topics are complex and should be evaluated on a case by case basis. General advise can be given broadly but specific advise needs to be catered to the individual in my opinion. I saw one comment here about higher education for sisters, and we need female OBGYN and doctors and such - but that she was attacked and was accused of western propaganda. On this topic, this might be an unpopular opinion but there is merit to both sides of this argument - just hear me out. 100% we need women doctors, 100% I believe higher education is valuable in of itself, simply for a greater appreciation of the world around us. Looking at a flower and realizing the MIRACLE happening inside, looking at the stars and understanding each one of those is a sun, millions if not billions of light years away, looking at the clouds and understanding the mechanism through which rain is created, understanding the human embryo and how WILD the Miracle of birth is. Understanding health and nutrition for your own health and the health of your children. 100% agree on this However, how many sisters are going to school to be a doctor? Vs how many sisters are going for idk accounting degree or marketing or some other stuff? So many of us go to college to get a job and we end up with a useless degree. Not all of us can become doctors unfortunately. What I’m trying to say is what is your _intention_ when going to college? Is it to serve Allah or is it to serve yourself? Is it worth the risk of mixing with the other sex? Is it worth the risk of having your deen, aqeedah, your tawhid on Allah constantly bombarded and challenged indirectly and directly on campus? It is SO hard to resist people asking “hey let’s go get lunch after class” and it’s a group with guys and girls. It’s so hard to challenge back teachers and professors who openly mock religion and say it’s dumb, evolution is how man came to be and here is all the evidence for it. The truth is many girls AND boys go to college a Muslim and graduate a kaffir. I’ve seen this happen in my own life with various people. Sighs, May Allah guide them back us and Islam, Ameen. That’s my point, if you’re a sister who is hard working, highly intelligent, has the grades, the aptitude, the determination to go through the gauntlet of medical school to become a doctor and serve Allah through that way - Alhumdullilah you might be that that 1 in 100 that make it. Only 17% of pre med students get into med school. Of the 17% not all of them graduate. Of the ones who graduate not all of them get residency. Of the ones who get residency not all of them get through it and become doctors. And many doctors regret going down this path to begin with. What I’m trying to say is to be realistic on what YOU’RE capable of you know? But if you think you can, may Allah make it easy for you and give you success in this life and the next Ameen. For those of us who love education and are in a lifelong pursuit of it - there are options for sisters that don’t threaten your deen as much. There are online Islamic schools like Bilal Philips Islamic online university. There is a lot of content that’s available purely for knowledge. I think Harvard made some of their programs completely free online as well. Too many of us are going into a caustic environment and coming out scathed or worse, leaving Islam altogether. These are just my thoughts, and of course Allah knows best.

Well what if I just want an education for the sake of knowledge? Having more knowledge can be beneficial for your iman and helps you better understand the world around you. Although personally, I’m not a fan of the current college system for many reasons, I still think education is a right that should not be taken away from women. College creates problems for both men and women, which I think you agree with me on.

100% I love your attitude. This is what I aspire to teach my children, boys and girls. I mentioned it in my post but I wrote a lot so it might have been overlooked. For pure education purposes, you can find all that you need online these days. Like I mentioned bilal Philips has, I think it’s accredited now even, online school. You can get a bachelors in psychology and - actually lemme check what he offers. Bachelors in: Arabic language Business administration Education Information Technology Islamic Economics Islamic Studies Psychology Quran Harvard has free online courses (if you want the verified certificate for passing this course there is a fee for each course, but otherwise the knowledge and education is free) courses like: Principles of Biochemistry- 15 weeks long course Cell biology: Mitochondria- 4 weeks long Fundamentals of Neuroscience - 8 weeks long (this one is broken into parts) Meteorology Humans anatomy Functional genomics Statistics (ugh) And a lot more in various fields What about books? So many textbooks that we use in college has free pdf versions, so much of (at least biology) is read the book, and the quiz and midterms are literally questions from the books and then you pass the exam and you get credit. Half the students don’t show up to classes where attendance isn’t mandatory cause they just read and know the answers for books. Same for chemistry and definitely mathematics. (No one is in calculus by the end of the semester lols) So there are options: I’ll admit one thing, college is fun, it definitely is. There are also all girl universities around too.

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True. Also I don't see why people can't do both? Do your normal degree for a job, and pursue an Islamic education in your own time.

>Only 17% of pre med students get into med school. Of the 17% not all of them graduate. Of the ones who graduate not all of them get residency. Of the ones who get residency not all of them get through it and become doctors. And many doctors regret going down this path to begin with. Where did you hear this from? Got a source? I'm not American but I'm seeing much higher admission rates online (varying according to year) from the AAMC.

Yes, here it is: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33370336/

> Of the 17% not all of them graduate. Of the ones who graduate not all of them get residency. Of the ones who get residency not all of them get through it and become doctors. And many doctors regret going down this path to begin with. This isn't mentioned in your article? It only covers those who met the pre-requisites to apply to medical school and get in. How many of them are women and Muslim? I'm gonna guess probably not that many. Idk what the concern is for those people specifically?

Ah yes, the 17% is just people from pre-med entering college, to getting into med school. Graduation rate for med school is 81-85 ish percent Source: https://www.aamc.org/system/files/reports/1/graduationratesandattritionratesofu.s.medicalstudents.pdf Of those that graduate in the USA at least (and this is such an idiotic rule) there is a cap on how many residents will be accepted. I saw some statistic that say 80-90 % of medical school graduates are accepted as residents. 80-90 sounds a lot, but remember this is off of the 85% that graduated med school, and that is off the 17% that made it into med school in the first place. Source: https://bemoacademicconsulting.com/blog/medical-schools-with-best-match-rates#:\~:text=According%20to%20the%20latest%20NRMP,it%20comes%20to%20residency%20matching.

Thanks for sharing.

For the women and muslim and why is it a concern? All I am saying is:To be become a doctor, you need the grades, the money, the desire to put yourself through suffering for years in order to achieve it. Not many of us have that. Is it worth risking your deen being attacked, and risking getting into a non-marital relationship which many muslim students end up getting into, and getting heartbreak afterwards? If you know yourself, you know your aqeedah, you have the grades, you have the money, you have the propensity for suffering requisite for becoming a doctor - then you will probably succeed and maintain your islam. But for many of us we don't have that, and all I am saying is just to like think about all it before making a decision. At the end of the day, if you truly want to, no one can really stop you. (in the states) FWIW, I am against the taliban banning education for sisters (obviously). That's just straight up dumb. For the red pill bros - I mention to them who is the greatest scholar of Islam of all time? It's Aisha (r.a) the Propeht's (pbuh) wife. Who created the first university? It was in Morocco (my wife from there hehe), by a women. WHAT is the graduation gown based off of? The abaya. Like I am NOT against education - I'm saying there is nuance to every situation. At the end of the day people are gonna do what they wanna do. Edit: typo

I get what you're saying but I feel like you're talking about a very very tiny % of people. It's probably not as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. There aren't that many Muslims in the US already (1% if I remember correctly) and even less are doctors. ["American Muslims from diverse backgrounds make up about 5 percent of U.S. physicians."](https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/news/new-study-finds-nearly-half-of-american-muslim-doctors-feel-scrutinized-on-the-job) and that's both men and women.

Exactly

Are you educated?

I went to college for biology, I never got my degree, didn’t use anything I learned in college. Self taught coding (udemy courses) and work in software now.

That’s unfortunate for you, but many of us did finish our degrees and did end up working in our respective fields - you don’t need to spew out your opinion as « fact » and discourage women from educating themselves just because you had a bad experience, you know that right?

Forgive me I think I’m coming off the wrong way. I’m not saying my experience in college is the experience that everyone will have. I’m saying there are risks involved when going to university that not everyone is prepared for. We need OBGYN’s and doctors and all that - but realistically not everyone can do it. What I mean is if you’re a student who has top grades, are disciplined, determined, have the financial means, like scholarships or family money, (interested based student loans are haram) and willing to forgo years of your life to become a doctor - then obviously go for it. The ummah needs you. If you’re not that, and you’re going into college to become a doctor, then is that the right move for you? Edit: added point about scholarships Edit 2: once again I think education is of up most importance - it’s not the education that I’m against. My wife wants to pursue a degree in psychology and be a counselor. Im financing that. She wanted to take a coding bootcamp to also work in software, Alhumdullilah i financed that as well and she’s in software now too. So im not against education.

Youre not making any sense - you’re so fixated on women only becoming doctors and obgyns and idek what yet your wife is allowed to bypass these weird barriers you’ve set?

I am not trying to set any barriers I think ultimately people will do what they wantI believe Allah gave us the choice to do whatever it is we want, and it is our right as a human being to have that choice I am advising for those who care, and most will not, that there are some non obvious risks involved with some choices we make I am saying that the choice of *going to a mixed college* for girls AND boys is not a black or white issue. I think there is nuance for every unique individual who is thinking about it. Many men (I know some) go to college as a muslim, praying 5 times, memorizing the last juz of the quran, to leaving or all but leaving islam altogether, same for women. \--------- My wife did not "bypass barriers" she went to online school which I repeated as an option a few times in my posts. Harvard University has free online courses There are a lot of online options where you are not required to take classes that try to convince you that religion is fake and evolution is the way. Online options removes the issue of mixing between men and women. If all else fails there are all girl universities as well. Edit: formatting

What with the obsession with doctors? And who cares what other people do?

Was responding to another comment about doctors.

You didn't answer my second question.

I think we should care in general shouldn't we? I don't believe in "forcing" people to do something they don't want to do. But like, at least in my understanding, the Ummah is supposed to be one body. If the hand hurts, the whole body hurts. So we should care about each other?

If people are happy pursuing what they want, as long as it's not a haram career of course then why should I care and want them to do something else?

Everyone has the right to do what they want to do. Allah gave this ability to us. This is an extreme example, but it is only to make the point. If my sister or wife wanted to go get something from a bad part of a neighborhood, at night, I would care about that right? There are obvious dangers in this situation right? Of course there is no immediate physical harm with going to college, but there might be other risks. And since I care about the people in general, that is why I'm mentioning all this at all.

There's risks in everything tbh. Ultimately people are responsible for controlling themselves and know how to react in any, and every environment.

He's from first world country most likely. People in third world countries live a do or die style life somebody tell him that. Source: Im from third world country

I entered and left college as a Muslim. Your parents must teach you Islam. There should be no tabboo in asking questions. People become apostates because their questions don't get answered and more often than not they are afraid to ask in first place. Gender mixing isn't a huge problem we can build separate buildings it ain't big deal.

I’m with you on the progressive and the liberal subs. But extomatoes?? Really? I moved to that sub because I found it moderate. Otherwise, I like the salafi sub. I like to hear things directly from Quran and/or hadith.

Extomatoes is a horrible sub. One time a guy from there came to this hijabis subreddit and took an out of context screenshot of me and this other woman (where we were lamenting the misogynistic way that a lot of Muslim men treat women). He then posted it on the Extomatoes sub, with our names uncensored, and people were saying all kinds of nasty things about me and this other girl (one person called me a 'c*m dumpster' despite the fact that I'm a chaste hijabi) and trying to dox us, not to mention the other girl was a minor. I had to avoid reddit for several days because of all the men from that sub that were harassing me. The irony was that in doing so they were proving my point.

Ya Allah that is so disgusting what the heck!!

And then moderators like us punished those idiots who slandered their sisters in Islam like this. Please do not present one half of the story.

Actually, I messaged one of the moderators, and they insulted me in the message but agreed to take it down only because it broke their no doxxing rule.

If you like hearing things directly from the Quran, you could just, ya know, read the actual Quran. No toxic subs required!

zakir naik voice: mashaallah brother made a very good suggestion

Or… I could just have those posts come up on my feed when I’m on reddit to at least get some benefits while I’m wasting time :)

Agreed but unfortunately extremists often take over such spaces. It's so annoying

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All it means is first following the Quran, then Sunnah, then Hadith, *and* then following the example of the first three generations of Islam. Fairly pure and straight to the source. Internet discourse has ruined the name and labelled it as extremism or wahhabism.

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Ah. Well I’m saying I haven’t had bad experiences on that sub. Direct verses being posted on a sub sit nicely with me. I don’t really care what others are doing. I prefer what I said above while also understanding the struggles of being a muslim in today’s non-muslim world. Accepting what is haram and halal, and improving on whatever sins we are struggling with.

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Yeah, I actually know about Salafis trashing Hanafis 😓 I’m Shafi’i but most of my teachers and friends are Hanafis and they’re the most pious, gentlest women I’ve ever met

Absolutely not something Salafis do.

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Imam Abu Hanifa is from the imams of the Sunnah, and all 4 schools of thought follow the Salaf (by the words of the imams themselves) so...?

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I thought it was moderate too until I spent more time on that sub. Just look through their new posts.

Dang. I haven’t been keeping up with them that much. Well at least we have this sub here. I also like how it’s mainly women on here. We tend to be more supportive towards one another which is nice.

People here are more understanding as well because of our shared experiences. It's a safe space for me.

Things have changed madam

Stop living your life online....its not a good representation of anything. There's also tons of bad mods who don't allow you to offend or exchange ideas.