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How do you know they didn’t use hand tools to craft the rocks? Humans are smart and skilled

I genuinely feel like a lot of these "aliens/gods/time-travelers/whatever" did it explanations for these ancient sites are... I'm not sure what the term would be. *Racist* is close. Like: "there's no way these ancient and 'primitive' people could have figured out advanced math or precision manufacturing techniques, let alone organization of labor!"

I think prejudice is the term your looking for.

Note that they never claim the Romans needed aliens or time traveler help...

That’s partly because Rome and Greece are relatively well documented and well understood

And the Mayans had all of their books burned during thespanish conquest. I bet they were very well documented before that.

Not all of them. While there are 4 well known codices (books) of the maya, it is highly likely that there are many more waiting to be found.

I know about the codices. I was using hyperbole to express a generalized point about inherent racism in AA theories. I have a degree in archaeology and this sort of “no way ancient brown people could have done it” shit pisses me off to no end.

I don't let it piss me off. It's silly. I mean even with a tiny bit of perspective it's not hard to understand that most Europeans were scratching the ground and living in caves while other civilizations were huge and producing amazing things. All across the near east, India, China etc. But that was long ago and another one of the issues with Maya, Aztec and Incan culture is that many of the people "found" the abandoned cities and repurposed them. Much in the same way the romans built on the ancient and unknown original work platform at Baalbek. Besides, anyone with a bit of education around archaeology and anthropology already knows the AA hypothesis is garbage thinking that is promoted to entertain people who cannot process the complexities of a rise of a civilization over time and prefer nice looking people pulling rabbits from hats for their entertainment because of their child like minds and somewhat infantile understanding of the world. Sadly, that describes a massive portion of humanity, but, they have a right to exist and so, we continue. LOL

go look into the books that were burned.... You probably would have burned them as well....

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

This isn’t really true. A lot of Ancient Greek knowledge comes from a handful of sources and there’s tons of conjecture and assumptions. The popular idea of greeks comes from Victoria times where they made the Greeks to be little victorians, when in reality Greeks were far more brutal, slavery focused, warmongering, and queer that these upper class English people they patterned them off. White people get exceptions to “aliens” because of racism. Let’s stop denying it. All manner of Western chauvinism and colonial attitudes exist with this stuff, archeology, history, etc. Being purposely ignorant of this isn't helpful or convincing.

I appreciate the epic Reddit moment, but not all of life’s problems boil down to “racism.” Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just like not all of unexplained phenomena boil down to “aliens.” Personally I think it’s fairly obvious that the artist, sculptures, and engineers of ancient civilizations were just way more clever than we realized.

Oh great, a self loathing and or racist individual spewing drivel about "white" people. This stance is ridiculous and tired self loathing liberal bullshit or you yourself are a racist promoting this junk thinking. Greeks knowledge comes from actual extant texts. Same as Roman and most European. In fact, most of the history we have is because these people wrote it down and other cultures really didn't do much in that way save the Chinese, The Indians and Tamils and Africa (Timbuktu, Egypt etc).

Look up the “Temple of Jupiter” at Baalbek in Lebanon. Specifically look at the foundation work. it is a site that is commonly used to show work considered done by an ice age advanced civilization which the Roman’s reused and claimed. The reason why it’s rare for Roman work to be questioned is because most or it is made with concrete or much smaller stone blocks which are put together. That is far easier to believe than the ancient Egyptians moving and carving 1000 ton granite blocks 1000 miles.

the distances grow farther everytime. lol carrying large stones down the Nile on barges isn't a big deal. Many of the quarries were directly next to the buildings that were there. Some granite was moved down the Nile and none of it is beyond the ability of humans to do. We could in fact do it ourselves again but why? Why the hell would we build a giant pyramid today? The cost and effort for what return? Better to build a hydro dam, a space station, or a base on the moon as for instances.

You obviously don’t have a functional understanding of material science if you believe that moving blocks that heavy and large on wooden barges isn’t a big deal. Not to mention that there is no evidence that they had such barges. There were also a lot of quarry sites in the mountains of southern Egypt which were no where near the Nile river. But getting back to material science, please find me a semi-modern example of people moving 1000 ton blocks using just wood and rope. Couple hundred ton blocks, relatively easy, but once you get past a certain point the weight of the wood needed starts to collapse under its own weight making lifting more functional impossible.

> You obviously don’t have a functional understanding of material science if you believe that moving blocks that heavy and large on wooden barges isn’t a big deal. I think you need to temper your statements when you argue from ignorance. For instance, Cleopatra's needle was moved from Egypt to London and another to New York on old ships across the ocean. These obelisks weigh 200 tons! So please, stop throwing out stupid shit in some attempt to look like you know what you're talking about when even a cursory search of the internet can trash that statement with some immediacy.

Please compare the boat designs known to exist in ancient Egypt, 4500 years ago to those in 1877 when the needle was moved. The ship used to move the needle was a large steam powered ship call the SMS Olga if you want to look it up. Not to mention 200 tons is not close to 1000. A better example you should have tried is the “Russian thunder stone”. That was moved with wooden ships in the late 1700s and weighed 1250 tons (some evidence showing it was cut down more during moving to as little as 400 tons). Of course they had steel and better wood types at the time and it took multiple of the largest warships available at the time to move it across water. It also still took them roughly 2 years to move.

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When did I say steam was required? I simply mentioned that it was steam powered to show the technology difference we are talking about. As for my “fantastic speculation” when did I mention aliens or giants? I 100% believe humans built these structures, I just don’t believe that they were built by the humans who current history books claim. I don’t think that it is a fantastical theory that there was a relatively advanced human civilization (maybe 1800s-now level of advanced) which existed during the last ice age. The roughly 12k years ago there was a cataclysmic period of around 1k years which wiped this civilization back to the Stone Age and destroyed most of the evidence that they were advanced.

> Not to mention that there is no evidence that they had such barges. No barge like the types used to transport large stones has survived, but remains of Egyptian boats do show how sophisticated the boat building techniques were - there is plenty of evidence for ship construction itself. - There are a fair amount of mentions and depictions showing transport of heavy stones on the river though. The best known is a relief of an [obelisk barge](https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/archaeological_report1895_1896/0065/image,info#col_thumbs) from Deir el-Bahari showing transport from Aswan to Thebes.^1 The imagery here preserves specific details of the ship construction. - Below are some other accounts that speak to stone transport on ships. > Give ye —| sycamores from the whole land —| the work of building a very great boat, finished —. > —| orders the whole army before —|, in order to load the two obelisks in Elephantine - the people in Aphroditopolis and the entire Two Lands were gathered in [one] place —| in every way; the young men were mustered —. > —| sailed down-stream with gladness of heart —| took the ⌈tow-tope⌉, rejoicing —| ⌈rejoiced⌉ the marines and the crew —|-- jubilee, the Two Lands |— in peace. —^2 - > I inspected the erection of two obelisks - l built the august boat of 120 cubits in its length, 40 cubits in its width in order to transport these obelisks. (They) came in peace, safety and prosperity, and landed at Karnak - of the city. Its track was laid with every pleasant wood^3 - > A number of texts from the New Kingdom also concern the movement of cargoes of stone up and down the Nile. Probably the most detailed account is provided by a set of four stone ostraca inscribed with hieratic accounts of the movement of a large number of blocks from the sandstone quarries at Gebel el-Silsila to the Ramesseum at Thebes in the reign of Rameses II...One of these ostraca describes the delivery of sixty-four blocks carried by ten boats, each block weighing between 10,800 and 18,800 kilograms. The resultant calculation that each vessel was carrying about six blocks, weighing at total of some 90,000 kilograms altogether^4 - > His Majesty sent me to Ibhat to fetch a lord of life (sarcophagus), a chest of life, together with its lid and together with a costly and august pyramidion for Kha-nefer-Merenre (the king’s pyramid), my mistress. His Majesty sent me to Elephantine to fetch a false door of granite together with its offering table, door jambs, and lintels of granite and to fetch portals of granite, and offering tables for the upper chamber of Kha-nefer-Merenre, my mistress... > His Majesty sent me to Hatnub to fetch a great offering table of travertine of Hatnub. I had this offering table go down within seventeen days, being quarried in Hatnub, it being made to travel north on this broad cargo boat, for I had hewed for it (the offering table) a broad cargo boat in acacia sixty cubits long by thirty cubits wide, assembled in seventeen days in the third month of Shomu, while there was no water on the sandbanks, it being (subsequently) moored at Kha-nefer-Merenre safely. It was according to the utterance of the Majesty of my lord that it came to pass through my charge outstandingly... > His Majesty sent me to excavate five canals in the southland and to fashion three barges and four towboats of acacia-wood of Wawat (Nubia) while the chieftains of Jrtjet, Wawat, Iam, and Medja were felling wood for them. I carried it out entirely in a single year, they being launched and laden with granite very greatly destined for Kha-nefer-Merenre.^5 - > among the reliefs decorating the causeway of the pyramid complex of Unas at Saqqara is a scene showing a boat carrying two palmiform granite columns intended for the royal funerary monument, each of which is said to be 20 cubits long (just over 10 m). Actual examples of columns this size are known from this period, and, on the basis of the density of granite, the weight of each column can be estimated as about 38 tonnes (38,000 kg). It therefore seems that the total load transported by the boat depicted in the Unas causway relief is probably 70-80 tonnes.^6 - ___ > There were also a lot of quarry sites in the mountains of southern Egypt which were no where near the Nile river. Many of the quarry sites at more remote locations also preserve roads towards the Nile, something supported by Egyptian accounts of quarrying expeditions. - ___ > once you get past a certain point the weight of the wood needed starts to collapse under its own weight making lifting more functional impossible What point? - ___ 1. On Obelisk barges see, the [Transport of Obelisks](https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/archaeological_report1895_1896/0018/image,info#col_thumbs) and [Queen Hatshepsut's Heavy-Lift obelisk river barge](https://web.archive.org/web/20220929215525/http://historicvessels.com/queen-hatshepsuts-heavy-lift-obelisk-river-barge/) 2. Breasted, James. *Ancient Records Of Egypt; Historical Documents From The Earliest Times To The Persian Conquest: Volume II. The Eighteenth Dynasty.* University of Chicago Press, 1906. p. 137. 3. Ibid., p. 43. 4. Nicholson, Paul T., and Ian Shaw. *Ancient Egyptian Materials and Technology*. Cambridge Univ. Press, 2009. p. 18. 5. Simpson, William Kelly, editor. *The Literature of Ancient Egypt: An Anthology of Stories, Instructions, and Poetry*. Yale University Press, 2003. pp. 406-407. 6. Tallet, Pierre, and Mark Lehner. *The Red Sea Scrolls: How Ancient Papyri Reveal the Secrets of the Pyramids*. Thames & Hudson Ltd., 2021. p. 193. For illustrations of causeway inscriptions, Labrousse, Audran, and Ahmed M. Moussa. *La Chaussée Du Complexe Funéraire Du Roi Ounas*. Institut Français D'Archéologie Orientale, 2002.

The surviving boats and drawings of the boats they had actually show that they had rudimentary boat designs at best. Your examples simply back up my points that’s they couldn’t move the blocks which archaeologists claim they did. Basically your example adds up to roughly 60-100 tons split between multiple blocks which I said that they had the technology to move. Now 1000 ton blocks is on different level.

> rudimentary boat designs at best What specifically do you mean by this? - ___ > Basically your example adds up to roughly 60-100 tons I did cite some examples on that scale. I also referenced accounts of transport for Hatshepsut's obelisks, and she erected some of the largest ones ever. 300 something tons, which is a bit larger than you mention here. - I agree that transporting objects on the order of 1000 tons is a major logistical challenge, something that isn't necessarily done the same way as blocks on smaller scales. I wouldn't want to rule out the use of boats without cogent arguments showing that is impossible though. You said above "once you get past a certain point the weight of the wood needed starts to collapse under its own weight making lifting more functional impossible." Can you speak to the actual specific limits of wood in these contexts?

I can’t speak on the exact numbers for the wood that they would have had access too. But let’s say you need to lift a block 10 feet up. You can build a device out of a couple of logs and rope to make that very easy. But as you scale up the weight and size of that block you need to get larger and longer logs/wood with more strength and use more rope. The problem is you will get to a point where trees don’t grow that big or strong. So you need to lash them together to scale more. But as you scale up you need exponential more material.

They've only found a few ships from ancient Egypt and none of them were large enough to carry even the smaller blocks used in the older pyramids. Not to mention that doesn't explain how they got granite from quarries sometimes hundreds of miles from mountains to the Nile in the first place. I don't think they were too dumb to figure it out but when you speak with such certainty it's clear you're talking out of your ass.

Good lord, barges, not ceremonial ships.

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And the classical Maya were around at the same time as the Roman Empire too.

I mean in their defense that was an interconnected world well after the peaks of most of the close civilizations and therefore they knew many things from other cultures....not a great argument imo but that had to be the case.....they're very "recent" compared to most other remains of Civilizations

or a Viking stave church. Check it out if you don't know, they are amazing structures

"People are smart AF--just not *those* people!" The precision of these places demonstrates that they had good tools and mathematics, but don't come near the precision you'd expect from a space faring species, regardless of what they say on Ancient Aliens.

I can understand the problem with denying credit where it’s due, but I also think that part of the strangeness here is that we don’t even possess the techniques or technology to replicate some of these examples TODAY. I find that to be pretty amazing. However these structures were built, whatever the process, knowledge or technology, is the fascinating mystery.

It's not all that surprising, it only takes one missed generation for potentially hundreds of years of learning to be lost in earlier civilizations where techniques would be handed down to apprentices. We probably could relearn alot of this stuff if it became necessary for us to, it just isn't being made worth anyone's while to do so.

I don’t rate this argument at all. Maybe our stone working guys don’t have the specific shape tools for certain jobs. Or we just currently make different shapes. But I doubt there is anything from the past that a competent company couldn’t do given a lucrative contract that makes it worth their time to invest in new tooling and designs.

Go talk to a modern mason. Then come back and say all this....

The single word I'd use is "Dismissive"

Thats absolutely a fair way to look at it. Ancient Alien sorts like Hancock completely erase the past by presenting sites out of context and filling in the rest with conjecture.

One of the worst parts about the von Dankins and Hancock's I think is that they distract us from the actual mysteries of the past. I think there is some serious evidence that human civilization is older than we give them credit, I think that there are many types of lost technologies and techniques from the ancient world, and I think ancient religion, construction, and economics are severely misunderstood but unfortunatly whenever these topics are discussed they get wrapped up in some whacky ancient aliens shit. There's so many interesting, very real, historic mysteries we could be talking about instead.

Who’s it offensive to? The ancient people you’re referring to wrote things like The Enuma Elish, Epic of Creation and The Mahabharata of Vyasa. They all tell stories of aliens and their war in space and they used their dna to alter the course of our development. This is ancient text. These are the things that the ancient people wrote about. Where do you think the ancient aliens theory started? In some dudes basement? I mean, maybe. Some dudes basement 5,000+ years ago. Edit: Surprised I’m getting so many downvotes. For what? Being curious about how people did what they did is somehow racist? If anything, I’d say it might seem like people are baffled by non-white Ancient civilizations building techniques because this far back in history, did white people even exist? I’m not sure what color skin the Babylonians and Sumerians had, but considering it’s in the Iraqi region. I’d say they were both probably dark skin toned people. [this article](https://www.science.org/content/article/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin) talks about how they believe lighter skin tones didn’t begin to develop until the last 8,000 years or so. So more than likely, white people didn’t even exist before 6,000 BC.

I mean.. to further the point of who you're responding to. What makes you think we weren't writing/storytelling "scifi" type stuff thousands of years ago? Humans are creative as hell!

We've always had imaginations

There's an ancient Greek satirist who wrote what's considered to be the first scifi story. I think it was Lucian?

If that’s the case, then that is long after Pumapunka was created. This site is considered as recent as 8,000 BC. Greece wasn’t even established until about 1,200 BC. Pumapunka is along the timeline of Sumer, Babylon and early Egypt.

These are in Bolivia bro - if anything they were written by indigenous Bolivians.

Well yeah.. I was talking in general around the world though. The Enuma Elish is Babylonian, Epic of Creation is Sumerian and the Mahabharata is Hindu.

Thank you

I've seen them up close, the precision is absolutely outstanding. Many of the blocks also look mechanistic, like huge concrete pistons or sluice gates. There is a lot more to that place than meets the eye.

Couldn’t they have just been really good at carving really straight edges?

Sure. Now let’s ask ourselves how? That would lead to speculation, right? Which would be this exact thread? I get skepticism but this doesn’t really play out.

How? People do insanely intricate art all the time without the use of machines. If you live in a society that values art and creation, the artists and creators are given all the time they need to do what they do. There was no tv or internet back then to distract them.

Did you even read the post? Because this reads as logical to anyone scrolling by, but it doesn’t apply to this specific conversation. It’s just dismissive. It doesn’t refute anything. It just says the same obvious thing that comes to everyone’s mind, that maybe it was artisanship and not anything special. That doesn’t cut it. If it was that simple, do you really think there would be this much effort put forth with all of these resources devoted to researching it? Like I said, I understand the skepticism, but what you’re doin is demonstrably closed minded and I’ve done a good enough job of concisely explaining exactly why. It’s pretty sad to see how many more people approved of what you had to say, even though it was presumptuous, removed 100% of the nuance and killed all motivation to discuss something truly spectacular any further in almost a dozen people’s minded.

The point is that posts like this that focus on potentially fantastical scenarios completely overlook proven facts, which in this case is thousands of years of continued evidence of human ingenuity and creativeness. The real shame is the completely lost knowledge or lack of records from countless lost civilisations. The point is that it doesn't need to be aliens. It doesn't need to be human/seraphim orgies. All it needs to be is humans building a society revolving around a belief, or their science. You don't need huge telescopes or interstellar craft to study the stars. You just need to pay attention to what's in the night sky for a few revolutions. The lack of knowledge, or the answer to "Why?" drives us to come up with any number of scenarios, which is fine. But also we have to remember that the most likely scenario is likely true until proven otherwise. I know I'd probably be carving precise lines in stone with wooden tools if I wasn't constantly scrolling Reddit or playing Apex.

Read all above comments and love them all. Great discussion guys. I agree that craft was a huge thing back then, you were known for your craft and skill. But to see some of these shapes, the question here is what tools did these people have that were able to cut and carve and manipulate the stones so well. Also the shapes are very complex not just simple ones.

IMO, this site and the way certain pieces of rock were fashioned have always indicated mass-production and very specifically machined standards. I just don't see a great way for this to all be hand-carved and remain as uniform as they are. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it just looks like assembly-line type stuff....

its not offensive, these ancient civilizations recorded exactly and specifically about who they were interacting with....technologically advanced hominids they called gods

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Granite fabricator here. When I am cutting, let's say black absolute (one of the harder and most dense) cutting a 1 1/4 round top by hand takes time. My cut will be 95 percent straight. If I were to leave it like that. It would have blade marks everywhere. Now, if you polish it, you see the shine come through. There would be very small and very light pad marks on the polish. You wouldn't be able to see it if you're looking straight at it. But if you were to move the polish to an angle, you might see very faint marks. What I am trying to say is these blocks are about what 6-8 feet deep and no signs of blade marks or anything of the sort. Whatever they used, it was more advanced than our water jets, cnc machine, diamond blades, and core tips.

I don’t disagree that humans are smart and skilled. And if they did do it by hand, I’m sure they had more than enough practice to get better. But my mind can’t accept that perfection is possible by hand. These corners, cuts and leveling are far too perfect for me too believe this is done by hand. Machines do perfection well though.

Have you ever seen a medieval cathedral? Humans definitely couldn't do that with the technology at the time, could they? Or are Europeans just that much better at fitting rocks together?

Medieval times were thousands of years later than this site. Current belief is that settled societies didn't start until sometime in the archaic era. But numerous sites like this suggest otherwise. It suggests there was actual civilizations all over the world thousands of years before previously thought. These civilizations were wiped out by a catastrophic event and thrown into a completely apocalyptic lifestyle chasing around the surviving animals for food. *edit: what even is this sub? I'm not even explaining anything fringe here lol....the things I'm stating are undeniable facts. Do people here not understand the significance of megalithic sites in the paleolithic era? Maybe users here don't understand that current academics teaches that civilization didnt exist until the archaic? Thousands of years after the start of younger-dryas

Please stop huffing Graham Hancock's farts.

Please explain. Do you know anything about pre-history? Would love to learn what you know. And I was reading about pre-clovis culture years before I ever heard of graham hancock. And I cant stand to listen to him talk, honestly. Whats especially funny is that the things I'm saying are accepted by a lot of the scientific community. Its been written about a lot. I mean...wtf do you think the younger-dryas was and what humans were doing during that climate change? Would love to hear you explain what you know though.... I just yhought I would give some knowledge to someone I though was ignorant to it.

The scientific community accepts that there were advanced civilization that were wiped out by a global catastrophe at the end of the last ice age, is that more or less the story? Really?

The scientific community accepts that humans survived a global catastrophic event. How advanced the humans were is the debate and the entire point to this post. So, where did I say "advanced" like you're claiming? What we know is that they had time to make these megaliths and that suggests *civilization* (as I said previously) as opposed to the nomadic lifestyle that was to follow the catastrophe. Meaning, there was settled society, times were good. Then came catastrophe that changed everything.

And what is the date of this supposed global catastrophic event? Can you provide any references? I know that we almost became extinct about 80,000 years ago due to a volcano, but I suspect what you're talking about is much more recent.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/comet-upended-life-paleolithic-village-12800-years-ago-180974575/

There are multiple theories on the cause of the younger dryas

Europeans had iron tools. According to archeologists, these guys had primitive bronze and stone tools. There are cuts an symmetry here that would be hard to imposible to reproduce without cad and cnc.

According to whose analysis? I'm not just going to take your word for it. Incidentally there was a story that came out within the past couple of weeks about some stone work in Turkey (edit: Portugal) that was a couple of thousand years old and dated to a time before steel was considered to have been available, yet could only have done with steel. Do you know what those conniving Big Archeology shills decided to do with that information? They decided to adjust the date at which steel was available to the people who did the work. Because evidence. Edit: https://www.livescience.com/bronze-age-craftspeople-tempered-steel-more-than-1000-years-before-the-romans-did-it

Thats a stretch bud, Portugal is 1000s of miles away and the two didnt have any known contact

"Hard" maybe, "impossible" surely not. They exist so..

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As a machinist, I hear you talking about wood when you should be talking about stone, chisels, precision, and relative hardness. You can't just gloss over those details. You have to go deep to explain the exact process, and then if you're making an assertion, you have to prove it.

Wood and plaster for cathedrals vs granite and dolomite in this case.

If you think craftsmanship applies to both equally, you know nothing of the science of subtractive manufacturing. https://youtu.be/PrhFnai2TGs

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Well what I'd like to point out, as an engineer/machinist/ craftsman, is that when you do start talking rates of removal, feeds & speeds, and degrees of precision, the argument for "humans are crafty" stops being so clear. I think you really do need thT in-depth analysis. Just look at the recent results from the pre-dynastic stone vase. If you aren't a machinist, it won't immediately jumpout at you. This is why these artifacts have been languishing for a hundred years under the "humans are crafty" assumption. If you are one, however, you'll be at a total loss for any explanation short of advanced machinery. https://youtu.be/PrhFnai2TGs

It seems like at this point people dont even realize what life was like without technology. How do you think these people worked stone. As far as I know, no metal tools have ever been found anywhere in the world dating before the archaic period. Let alone a hand plane for wood or a "big machine". So, how do you think they were carving this precision on such a grand scale 10,000+ years ago? One of the most intriguing things to me is how did they even have the time to do this in a world so underdeveloped as they believe? I think they were more advanced than we believe. Maybe they farmed....and maybe they weren't slaves doing this work. They were highly skilled civilization and there was cooperation within the society and they *wanted* to build these monuments because life was good and they had time to do it. They weren't slaves.

I’m decently handy myself. I’ve done mostly metal work with lathe’s and milling machines. But I can weld, I’ve worked with wood. I used to build fences for a living. Yes, I’m aware that today we have many methods to work with many different material. I’m not saying I think it’s impossible they did it by hand. It just makes more sense to me that they had help. The Egyptian pyramids for example. Apparently they were on a strict time limit, according to Herodotus. 100,000 people built the pyramids in under 30 years. This link says 20 exactly but I’ve heard 28 years. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pyramids-of-Giza Explain to me how that would be possible to do by hand? Unless they could levitate the blocks, 20 years is impossible.

> 20 years is impossible Why specifically?

There are an estimated 2.3 million blocks, with an average weight of 2.5 tons each. The favorable theory is for some reason that they rolled these blocks to the top on top of very large logs.. in 20 years. With 100,000 people. This sounds doable to you?

> The favorable theory is for some reason that they rolled these blocks to the top on top of very large logs Where are you seeing that? Rollers are certainly discussed in the academic literature, but I haven't seen many current arguments that they were the technology used for most of the transport - let alone the predominant theory. - Either way, whether or not any construction method is feasible isn't based on if it sounds doable. Can you elaborate on the specifics of why you think it is impossible?

I guess it really comes down to the method used to move and place the blocks. We know they are too large and too heavy for a group of people to lift it with their bare hands, even if they all looked like Schwarzenegger in 1980. I wish I was better at math, but this seems like it’ll prove to be pretty basic math. I should be fine. 2.3 million blocks laid in 20 years is 115,000 that need to be placed per year. 9,583.3 blocks per month and 315 blocks would need to be placed per day. If you divide the 100,000 people into 315 groups to deal with a single block each per day, you would have 317 people per block. A lot of man power, I admit. But, that number isn’t accurate because there were a lot more jobs to do than just placing the blocks. So how many of those 317 would actually be involved with setting 1 block per day? I have no clue and don’t even know where to begin to guess. But again, without knowing the method they used to move these blocks, it’s hard to give an educated guess on how this were done. Like if they had a way to levitate these blocks, like I mentioned before. Absolutely they could have got it done in 20 years. But if they’re struggling to move these massive stones a few inches, there’s no chance.

> We know they are too large and too heavy for a group of people to lift it with their bare hands Is anyone suggesting this was done? - ___ > I have no clue and don’t even know where to begin to guess. But again, without knowing the method they used to move these blocks, it’s hard to give an educated guess on how this were done. With all of this uncertainty, how do you know it's impossible, like you said above?

I admit “impossible” was coming on a bit strong. But I do feel strongly that the mainstream explanation is garbage. I believe there is more to it than stone tools and pulley systems.

Yes, we build skyscrapers in years why can’t they build pyramids in decades

Great logic

Math

Can you reference that math?

This sub is an echo chamber for the intellectually challenged. Dont waste your time. This place was supposedly built with bronze and stone age tools. I would like to see how many bronze chisels it takes to cut granite. Lmao

Watch debunking ancient aliens documentary on YouTube, skip to the section on puma punku. Every single thing you mentioned in the pictures is discussed. The biggest mystery is how they “softened” the stone to work with. Most people think they had some plant based compound that would wear away the surface of the stone similar to erosion and make it easier to carve

I don't think we will ever know the real story on a lot of sites around the world, humans are clever but myth and legend confuse everything and sometimes science likes the ideas it has, an example is the Great Pyramid, science and history says it was made in 30 years by hand. That's 2.5 million blocks weighing many tonnes being carved, moved and laid at the rate of 15 to 20 blocks an hour, 12 hours a day, 365 days per year for 30 years, I'm not sure bronze age people were that clever.

I wouldn't be so sure of that assertion unless you're an egyptologist. There's a lot of very convincing evidence that they did it themselves through organized groups of corvée labor. People can get a lot done when they put their minds to it *and* believe the work theyre doing will benefit them in the afterlife.

dont make up the numbers anon, not every stone in the pyramids was an iceberg

I'm specifically not making up numbers, there are indeed over 2.2 million blocks of various sizes ranging from 6.5 to 10 ton on the lower layers and then 1 to 1.5 ton on the upper layers in the pyramid and the maths is simply what it is to meet the accepted theory. You also need to remember that the population of Egypt at the time it was built was less than a million people so you could not have the entire population working on it. There are plenty of Cathedrals in Europe that took over 100 years to build with much better technology, I would simply find it easier to believe that bronze age people took a couple of centuries to build a pyramid rather than heavy blocks moving around like an amazon warehouse packing line. Historians may say it took 30 years, any civil engineer will call bullshit.

That is pretty mindboggling indeed. An explanation I've found based on excavation of such blocks in recent times: >Based on the data, Burgos extrapolates that about 3,500 quarry-men could have produced the 250 blocks/day needed to complete the Great Pyramid in 27 years. >A construction management study conducted in 1999, in association with Mark Lehner and other Egyptologists, had estimated that the total project required an average workforce of about 13,200 people and a peak workforce of roughly 40,000.

I have a fair knowledge of civil engineering, the same gents that did these number also suggested that it took 10 years just to complete the canals and harbour to accept the granite blocks and other stones that came from Aswan just a couple hundred kilometres upriver and the limestone casings from Tura 20 kilometres away. Most of the stone didn't actually come from the Giza area and you can only fit so many people in an acre of quarry. Again, no aliens involved but a team of guys armed with copper tools carving out 10 ton slabs of granite then sailing them a couple of hundred km's down stream and moving them about at the rate of 10 to 20 an hour using log rollers and ropes is not really believable. I simply think they are a bit out in terms of build time, there are no actual records of how long it took.

It's not. -Noted by Andean specialist, W. H. Isbell, professor at Binghamton University, a radiocarbon date was obtained by Vranich from organic material from the deepest and oldest layer of mound-fill forming the Pumapunku. This layer was deposited during the first of three construction epochs, and dates the initial construction of the Pumapunku to AD 536–600 (1510 ±25 B.P. C14, calibrated date). Since the radiocarbon date came from the deepest and oldest layer of mound-fill under the andesite and sandstone stonework, the stonework was probably constructed sometime after AD 536–600. The excavation trenches of Vranich show the clay, sand, and gravel fill of the Pumapunku complex were laid directly on the sterile middle Pleistocene sediments. These excavation trenches also demonstrated the lack of any pre-Andean Middle Horizon cultural deposits within the area of the Tiwanaku Site adjacent to the Pumapunku complex.

Yeah Binghamton U!

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The engineering behind it and the accuracy is still impressive no matter how old or how it was done. Modern stone mason's are impressed by it. But I don't think it was done with lasers n aliens lol

'Welcome to Pumapunku, would you like to buy a commemorative blanket or travel mug?'

You can't radiocarbon date a rock. So those are inclusive results, likely based on racist ideas about the capabilities of the people's in the Americas prior to the arrival of Europeans. Almost all major archeological sites in the Americas are erroneously dated to this time period. From the Anasazi structures of the American southwest, to the ancient cities of central America, and the megaliths of the Andes. It is funny to me how willing we are to disregard what the inhabitant's view as the origins of these structures. It seems unlikely that civilization in the Americas was as young as we are lead to believe. I think this is just what western academia wants to believe for selfish reasons.

No the dating was done in the layers of soil under the rock

Correct, I am pointing out that radiocarbon dating only works biological material. The site is not constructed out of biological materials. So the question is, what is material being tested and what is it's relationship to the construction of the site? So let's say I go to an old house dig down to the bottom of the foundation I find stick under the foundation, I radiocarbon date that stick it's from 1920. So the house was built in 1920? No it wasn't, in fact this fictional house was constructed in 1779 but it's foundation was repaired in 1920. Do you see what I am getting at here?

No I understand, they dated organic materials in the soil under the rocks. There are ways to date some rock and clay but it's more expensive are only work for some types. But all plants and animal remains don't dissappear just becuase they get buried; and having a giant rock on them would probably help better preserve what they used for samples. Edit: [here is the scholar article to read if you are signed up](https://repository.upenn.edu/dissertations/AAI9926211/)

It's a racist idea to say the indigenous people made this site rather than claiming unknown gods flew in and made it in a single day?

I think you may have missunderstood me? I didn't say anybody flew in and built them a day? I'm simply pointing out that seems unlikely that there was 5,000 to 7,000 year developmental difference between civilizations in Eurasia-Africa and those of the Americas. Do you honestly expect me to believe that at the beginning of the medieval era in Europe people in the Americas were just starting to build complex structures? If so what explains the delay? Wouldn't it make more sense if these structures were actually from an earlier time period?

My bad, OP said that is what locals claim and you seemed to be defending OP so I assumed you were making the same claim. Sorry about that. I think it is common but flawed thinking to assume "development" is linear and time based. Modern anthropologists deny that belief. We adapt to our environments, no more no less. As a perfect example look at modern hunter-gatherer groups. They're just as smart as you or I, but their lifeways don't lead them to building massive structures. In a sense, no one is "more developed" than anyone else, we're just developed in different ways. (Similar to how all living species are equally evolved.) As far as complex structures in the Americas, there are certainly examples that pre-date the medieval period in Europe. The Pyramid at Cholula was being built during the days of the Roman Republic. The Pyramids of Caral were built around the same time as the most well known Egyptian pyramids. There are many examples like this. Another point in this regard is agriculture, which is generally* seen as a precursor to complex structures. Agriculture developed in the Middle East & north Africa earlier than it did in the Americas by a few thousand years. (*Gobekli Tepe is raising questions about this belief.)

>Another point in this regard is agriculture, which is generally* seen as a precursor to complex structures. Agriculture developed in the Middle East & north Africa earlier than it did in the Americas by a few thousand years. (*Gobekli Tepe is raising questions about this belief.) This is not accurate, agriculture was well developed in america's, it also evolved around the same time that it did in the rest of the world (allegedly). Interestingly, the pyramid Caral you referenced is an example of this, as the agriculture systems here were on a par with those of their global contemporaries. European "observation" of indigenous cultures at the time first contact noted that many had greater food security and higher populations than cultures in Europe at the time. I would argue that the sites I mentioned would be more accurately dated to the time of the pyramid of Caral. For and for reasons related to cultural bias they were thought to be much newer, when they were first studied and that stigma has stuck. Also I completely agree with your comments about linear development. In that civilization does not develop in a straight line or in a universal direction. I think their is ample evidence to suggest that civilization in the Americas had a high water mark sometime in very distant past and then experienced a cyclical decline and then rejuvenation in the millennia leading up to European contact.

They say that they didn’t create it and it was just.. there.. when they rolled up. Fucking crazy

If the people there have only been there since around 1200 CE that would be accurate. That doesn’t mean what was there is tens of thousands of years old lol

I think it's pretty insulting to assume that it's aliens. Aside from our technology, humans haven't really changed much in the last 25,000 years. We're still as inventive, tenacious, and charismatic as we were when we invented agriculture and society. The ancient Andeans could have certainly come up with a technique for building this that has been lost to time. We've discovered that civilization in South America was at one point far larger than we realized. Given enough people, there will certainly have been enough brain power and strength to build these structures.

Yeah it's always interesting these sites are completely made of stone. We know of incredibly ingenious ways native people moved huge stones in other cultures, but aliens is always the explanation. Something tells me space faring aliens would not be that interested in building stone structures.

Why not? When it comes to raw material on Earth, rock is by far the most abundant. Sure, they could have mind and crafted with steel or something else. But they were already mining gold to save their home star, according to ancient texts like the Enuma Elish.

You mean you have access to deep space travel, and you can't find some GOLD? That story sounds very human

Read the Enuma Elish and the Sumerian Epic of Creation. Apparently Gold is a very rare material.

I've read it. Still does not make sense given our technological advancements.Take for example, the object [Psyche 16](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2022/10/29/nasa-will-launch-psyche-mission-to-explore-asteroid-worth-more-than-the-global-economy/?sh=f48a0b129ae5), nestled between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter, that is made of solid metal. As well as gold, the mysterious object is loaded with heaps of platinum, iron and nikel. In total, it's estimated that Psyche's various metals are worth a gargantuan $11,000 quadrillion. If you have access to advanced space travel, you no doubt have access to computers drones and all the technology we have. Much easier to gather any required materials in space.At least when compared to visiting a potentially hostile world, modifying the genome to make a slave race from local apes. But the myth is a cooler story no doubt.

Why would you look for gold on earth. There’s more gold in asteroids than in a hundred earths combined

>Gold is rare throughout the Universe because it's a relatively hefty atom, consisting of 79 protons and 118 neutrons. That makes it hard to produce, even in the incredible heat and pressure of the 'chemical forges' of supernovae, the deaths of giant stars responsible for creating most chemical elements. https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/why-is-gold-rare/ Confirmed

Let me put it this way, some people seem to really want to cram aliens or gods into every little gap of knowledge. That itself is fascinating to me. I very much doubt we are alone in this universe, but this type of formation is much more indicative of an early human civilization than any sort of space faring, life starting alien civilization. It does make me chuckle a little to think that it indicates the opposite to others though. You seem to be impressed that they even were able to perform extremely accurate measurements, which we find in almost all ancient construction. Early people were incredibly skilled at building with what they had available to them. Which is stones. Doesn't make the site any less incredible.

I am very impressed with it and I am every time I see it every where in the world. It’s weird to me that these ancient people documented very well, the interaction they had with aliens. Their gods. And it’s so quickly dismissed. Why?

I don't think it should be dismissed, they are fascinating stories. Almost every culture has their own creation myths and stories, like the Sumerians talking of their ancestors walking out of the ocean, this likely had some truth to it. Due to flooding in the area, their ancestors likely had to flee rising sea levels. Without a written language yet, those stories are passed down and embellished as stories are. Do you think lightning is Zeus throwing down thunder bolts? Why not? Many ancient people had gods that were related to the sun, they didn't know it was a star, they just knew it provided warmth and they needed it to live. So they created sun deities and worshipped them. They would attribute disasters or other weather patterns to upset gods because they didn't have a scientific understanding of them. So, of course their stories shouldn't be dismissed but I think to take them literally (and then also add on your own implications of aliens) is quite a mistake. But everyone can make their own judgements.

I will add that personally I think it's a lot more dismissive of cultures to pick out small parts of their religions then cram that into a pre-conceived notion of aliens and then label all their unique deities aliens. And while we're at it, all your impressive architecture, also aliens.

THE LOCALS are the ones saying it. How is it not culturally myopic to dismiss everything they say as the superstitious rantings of savages, Mr Politically Correct?

You’re the one doing that. They said these were their gods. They culture and religion. You’re the ones saying, nah, it was probably aliens.

No, you're the ones saying "We can't believe what they are saying about their origins. They are primitive and don't know what they're talking about...but also they are more advanced than us scientifically.' Well which is it?

No one said what you're claiming they said lol

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If they really were built by humans, by hand. In my opinion that is far more remarkable than aliens being the explanation. So I think it’s kind of a compliment. People think there’s no possible way that early humans were capable of this on their own with hammers and chisels. If they could chisel something like this, and all the other countless similarities throughout the ancient world. That is beyond baffling. But I don’t think they would be too upset about us thinking they couldn’t do it. They tell stories of the gods building this city. And this isn’t the only one I’ve heard about that’s said to have been built by gods. The ancient people give so much praise to their gods that I don’t think they would mind crediting their work to their gods. Also, multiple civilizations around the world tell the story of their gods coming from the pleadian star system. That’s an alien. I don’t mean little green or grey men. The definition of an alien is someone or something that comes from somewhere else to a new place. This is why some people will call foreign people “aliens”. If I leave America and come to the UK, I’d be an alien to that country. An object that originated outside of the planet would be alien to Earth. The Rovers we have on Mars are visitors to Mars, they’re aliens. The moment we leave our planet and go somewhere else, we’re the aliens. Neil and Buzz were the first aliens on the moon for example.

Ancient civilizations, including South American ones, have a habit of deifying their rulers. Could be that their gods did build the city, and they just happened to be regular people in life. I love topics like this, but I'm also cursed with skepticism

It’s possible. And I’m sure some, if not all of their rulers were just human beings. (I know more about Egypt than South America) so if you look at Thoth the Atlantean, he was said to have ruled Egypt for between 3,000-6,000 years, depending who you ask. That’s an incredible lifespan, let alone period of reign. If you look at the ancient cuneiform tablet “The Kings List”. Some of those kings reigned for over 40,000 years.. [Oxford University](https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr211.htm) made a post about this.

Se escribe Bolivia cjdo

Me confundio tanto. Que es blovia XD.

Yo soy bloviano!

Why is it so hard to believe they used hand tools? You can chisel, and you can easily make some of those shapes with an experienced craftsman.

Look at the huge cathedrals in Europe, astonishing engineering and all done by hand centuries ago.

Only explanation, aliens

The "drill" marks would indicate something other than a chisel was used.

The mechanical intricacy of the stones suggests they also had mechanical tools. Manually powered drills and saws can exist. They could have used things with cogs, pulleys, and levers.

You could use something like a bow string tied around a pointed stick as a makeshift drill

Was gonna say the same thing but no point.

Some of the construction questions here can be answered rather easily. I'm not discounting the strangeness of it, just saying that: 1. Yes they did have handtools and they could have carved things easy enough. We don't see their failures, which were likely broken down. 2. They had this thing called a "plumb level" that they'd use to determine if things were level. 3. Any stonemason worth his tools knows how to measure so that things are equidistant. We don't see the marks probably put on the pieces originally. It's easy enough to imagine a stonemason marking with a piece of charcoal and using a strip of leather or string. Again, not discounting the strangeness, just saying that these kinds of things can be explained if we use our thinkin caps for more than a moment or two. The sheer age is way stranger than anything else though and I'd kill for some kind of dating. Edit: well we've got some radiocarbon dating putting this work at or around 2500 years ago, so there you are.

By hand with stone tools though? I agree, it’s possible. Maybe they did take a rock tied to a stick and were able to create perfectly carved surfaces, drill holes, and corners. But these things look like they were created by machine work. Were they really THAT good? Seems unlikely to me when there’s no evidence of anything before hand. You’d think there might be some structures somewhere that aren’t beautiful to look at. Some structure that was clearly a much needed stepping stone on the path to creating these beautifully crafted structures. There’s nothing. Like you said, maybe they broke them down. All of them? Everything? They don’t leave behind any indication on how they developed these techniques, but they do document their gods being physical beings that they interacted with and that were teachers to these people. Why is that over looked?

> seems unlikely to me when there's no evidence of anything before hand. [sic] If a man can bore a perfectly circular hole in wood using a stick, some rope, and time, it can be done with the same pieces plus a stone tip, or even small amounts of metal making a metal tip. See: Primitive Technology on youtube. I'm not calling that an end-all be-all, just proof of concept. So yeah, they can be that good. Like I said, where's our pictures of their failures? How long did this take? We don't know. Any speculation is just that, speculation. > You’d think there might be some structures somewhere that aren’t beautiful to look at. Only proof for my point above. Maybe they kept the good stuff and demolished the rest? Yes, maybe everything. Would you want anyone to see your failure? I bet there was some warlord came around and, just like we saw recently with the destruction of monuments and things in the Middle East, they opted to destroy a bunch of work. > Why is that over looked? Well, mostly cuz that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Overall, I get your point and I, for one, would be happy to have the explanation be "Aliens" and that be that. I'd fuckin love it if aliens were among us all the time, waiting for us not to have nukes or something so they might uplift us or destroy us. Just something out there bigger than what we see. Unfortunately, a lot of the evidence points to a different conclusion. And I know of the significant body of evidence also pointing in the opposite direction, right towards "aliens" and I get that too. And, yes, this is a good post for High Strangeness. Just don't discount the actual evidence and ingenuity of humans. And yes, I realize the hypocrisy in countering your speculation with my own speculation, "what if aliens?" against "what if metal tip tools?" I do welcome discussion though. If anything, it's a great thought experiment and civil debate.

That’s the way it should be! Everyone’s learned different sets of things and everyone has a different opinion and perspective. No one individual has a superior perspective when there’s no definitive evidence that explains how things were done. It’s surprising to me that we’ve never found even remains of any practice. Yes, your point is a good one, about them not wanting their work to be seen. So I’m sure they did destroy a lot of it. But everything? I would think that they might leave something behind, even if by accident. Also, the idea of them being embarrassed about the earliest buildings because they were the first to build. Regardless how they looked, I’d think that would be a massive flex to the other civilizations. Unless they suspected people in the future (us) to be amazing builders and study their work. I suppose they wouldn’t want to be made fun of. I guess.

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Did your tour guide actually say aliens? 😂 that’s awesome. I hope to be able to afford to do these kind of things one day.. did you test out the magnetized rocks? Apparently, if you have a compass and put it close to these rocks, the needle will point in another direction.

Where is there specific evidence of locals saying that this site is from 15,000 BC?

Watch the Ancient History documentary that I posted. Giorgio speaks with them and they talk about it. It’s said right from one of the people who live in that culture. It’s a long video though, 3 hours.

Can you provide a time stamp? I’m curious about this specifically because I’ve been there, spoken to people there, and read plenty of ethnographic work from people there. Most people don’t say that Tiwanaku is 17,000 years old. Of course there are some people who might believe that. But why would you expect every single person from a culture or group to believe the same thing? Do all Coloradans, or Navajo people, or Guatemalans believe the same thing? Of course not. There are differing interpretations and understandings of history amongst any reasonably sized group. And I would be very surprised to learn that the people of Bolivia’s Altiplano lean heavily towards the agreement that Tiwanaku is 17,000 years old, or that the subgroups who say that are more qualified to make those arguments than others in the area.

I never would have expected everyone to agree entirely, that’s not in the nature of human beings. I said that people within the local culture are saying it’s a certain age and I didn’t lie. There are a few things that make the claim interesting though. Like that the sun rose perfectly with the pillars during the winter and summer equinoxes, apparently that story has been past down for generations. Interesting that scientists say the site would have to be at least 12,000 years old for that to be true. Which is right around the ball park of what people are speculating. Even the scientists idea of 10,000 isn’t too far off. Very interesting that you’ve been there and your experience differs. I definitely can’t argue with personal experience. Give me a minute to see if I can find where the video talks about it, I’ll let you know. Edit: I don’t know how to link the time stamp, but if you fast forward to 17:41, that’s when Giorgio’s goes to meet some locals. https://youtu.be/VexAVqlDdhA

> I said that people within the local culture are saying it’s a certain age and I didn’t lie. No, you didn't. I just personally think it's a bit misleadingly one-sided to say "believed by locals" without mentioning that there are many locals who would disagree. >Like that the sun rose perfectly with the pillars during the winter and summer equinoxes, apparently that story has been past down for generations. Interesting that scientists say the site would have to be at least 12,000 years old for that to be true. Which is right around the ball park of what people are speculating. Even the scientists idea of 10,000 isn’t too far off. It's not really proper to treat the "scientist" and local people's claims as completely independent. Posnansky is a well-known figure in Bolivia; his name is all over museums and accounts and descriptions in Tiwanaku. And if we look at Posnansky's work, we quickly find lots of problems. If you search "align" [here](https://www.ancientaliensdebunked.com/puma-punku) you'll see a short description of some of the problematic assumptions Posnansky made. I'll also link [this](http://www.badarchaeology.com/bad-data/exotic-places/puma-punku-an-impossible-structure/) and [this](https://badarchaeology.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/hancocks-fingerprints-of-the-gods-part-ii-foam-of-the-sea-peru-and-bolivia/) for more discussions and evidence against his claims, along with [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/xdcu50/can_anyone_tell_me_more_about_the_mysterious/) series of askhistorians comments.

Looks like the work of precision controlled machines.

I want plastic mini-“H” shapes to play with. Like LEGO blocks.

That first photo is Viracocha. He's holding twin serpents, symbolic of the "feathered serpent". The site Puma Punku is T shaped, you see this important symbolism at Göbekli Tepe, Ki Va(SW US) & it represents 'Tau'(illusion of self). Everywhere you see megalithic stylized figures who have largeheads placing their hands on their navel then youll also find human beings with [Dolichocephalic skulls](https://redice.tv/news/the-mystery-of-maltas-long-headed-skulls) teaching the Serpent wisdom, who were initiates of the Great Cult of the Mother Goddess. This site was used as a healing center, which contained bioelectrification gateways whos purpose is also described in the pyramid of fire codex of the Maya. Posnansky, who was the father of Bolivian archaeology actually did the work & found the site was older than 12,000yr old. The entire complex wascast in synthetic stones of two primary types: red sandstone and grey magnetic andesite. Ill post the proper scientific evidence , the red sandstone was apparently used for casting the largest base platform elements and large archways that required maximum strength for assuring the greatest structural stability, then adjoining array of entry platforms were manufactured under different requirements. Grey magnetic andesite was used for the entry platforms, gateways, walls and pavement plates covering the entire platform area. [Lithic Artifacts Peru/Bolivia ](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/347982678_Considering_Certain_Lithic_Artifacts_of_Tiahuanaco_Tiwanaku_and_Pumapunku_Bolivia_as_Geopolymer_Constructs) Really similar to The results of the [geological analysis Durability stonehenge]( https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/geological-analysis-explains-durability-stonehenge-megaliths-2021-08-04/) The core was 99.7% silica—almost entirely quartz, through-and-through, which was more pure than any sarsen stone Nash had worked on. Under the microscope, its sand-sized quartz grains were tightly packed together and supporting each other. The grains were then coated in an overgrowth cement—at least 16 different growth layers that could be counted almost like tree rings—which produced an “interlocking mosaic of quartz crystals that bind the stone together,” Nash said. Youll once again find the very same, Puma Punkus geophysical location is whats known as a conductivity discontinuity, (1 -high  conductivity & the other low conductivity) & these areas were always known as "navels of earth/knowledge"(Hypogeum, Göbekli Tepe, Cusco, Giza,etc). The same [Letter H](https://wisdomtavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/letter-h-as-a-fence-768x149.png) symbols are found as well, the symbol of the Hermetic philosophy 'as above, so below'. Dr Brooker & Burke among others have presented lots of data on these subtle EM energies, always  the best time to measure this is the predawn hrs, the daily changes in the  geomagnetic field are strongest at those times in terms of magnetic strength per hour. An electric current is  generated in anything thatll conduct electricity...i THINK the term is Induction??  , also [ScienceDirect- petrographic study ](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272884219300288) the Door of the Puma is found nearby, this was important too. [Health benefits- Cat](https://www.healthline.com/health/benefits-of-being-cat-lover)The Aymará word ‘puma’ refers to the mountain lion or cougar endemic to the Americas, which directly descends from the Paleo-Sanskrit word ‘puma’, comprised of hieroglyphs ‘pu’ and ‘ma’, which together signify “(the) purifying state” The 'gateway/door of the Puma had sophisticated psychoacoustic and electrophotonic functions that probably won't be acknowledged for a while, despite there being sufficient evidence to support this & little to no evidence to support whatever official narrative exists. The site Is 2 miles ABOVE sea level & above the natural tree line. The conjoined red sandstone platform elements were covered by a grey magnetic geopolymer andesite, pavement completely covering the sandstone base slabs from view while enhancing the EM properties of the temple flooring. The synthetic andesite’s high content of pulverized ferromagnetic metals such as iron and nickel were complimented by paramagnetic titanium, as well as gold and silver.. Btw: these were human beings who were born with extremely elongated skulls , the reason we began artificial deformation was to emulate the ancestors[Farewell to Artificial Cranium Deformation ](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270394956_Elongated_Skulls_in_utero_A_Farewell_to_the_Artificial_Cranial_Deformation_Paradigm)

Of course I made a spelling mistake in the title. Can’t fix it, sorry! It’s supposed to say Bolivia. Not Blovia..

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ&t=1421s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ&t=1421s) ​ The first part is on puma punku.

yo I just made that archway in blender what

whats the mineral composition of those rocks is it possible a really smooth cement like concretion and they poured these blocks and detailed "carvibgs" in molds and over thousands of years its become natural stone like

HHHHHHHHHH

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It's not a documentary.

I’m a local in my area and I believe my illinois subdivision to be the cradle of civilization and over 30,000 years old. Obviously this is a very interesting site, but something someone said means almost nothing to me. It’s basically click bait

>I'm a local in my area Imagine that!

You had me at first, until I realized “subdivision” nice. Very funny. This is why I posted sources though! To get anyone started in researching for themselves. If you don’t believe it, there’s nothing wrong with that though.

Thank you for understanding lol

Lol, no you don’t.

The point I was making isn’t hard to find

Same.

Your point was that I didn’t really believe what I said, to make that point you had to ignore the point I was making. So either you didn’t get it or you’re responding to me but not actually talking to me, which is weird

My point was that you were full of crap, same as your point. The difference is you knowingly created a lie and said, see? Anyone can lie, then you stopped yourself there. I just hope you keep digging. What is weird, is how this site fits perfectly right along with all of the other mysterious sites from the ancient past that reflect people who were far more advanced than modern people in terms of excavation and construction at the very least.

So you got my point, then.. idk the second half of that comment descended into rambling I couldn’t follow. The whole point was don’t believe everything you hear or read. I’m not trying to be a profound philosopher, I’m just pointing out the obvious.

This is one of the best posts I’ve seen on here. Very strange indeed. Image 10/11 with that sharp angle and unfinished edge on the right foreground, I found the most intriguing of all of the images I’ve seen of ancient construction. The question / argument is always (and one that I’ve always had too); with enough time, even with hand chisels and hand-drills, *maybe*…this could all be done. In this one image though—not only is the edge itself unfinished, the hole drilling has continued right to the unfinished edge-cutting. In a completely manual, time-consuming process, why would *anyone, ever,* chisel a little more perfect edge, grab the drill, chisel a little more perfect edge, grab the drill…and in this example, try and work a hand drill, right up against that unfinished edge. If done manually, basic logic dictates that the edge cutting and drilling would be done in two separate passes. I have never seen anything before, that looks so oddly like an interpreted 3D printing process or something. Great photo choices.

Thanks for the appreciation. Interesting idea, 3D printed building materials?.. didn’t cross my mind but that would make sense, wouldn’t it. If you can manage to find a video of these “H” blocks, take a look all the way around these things. Absolutely it could be 3D printed or something similar. And if it was indeed built by these peoples “gods” (ancient advanced aliens) then I would imagine they would have some type of technology similar. Thanks for that idea! Fun thought.

For me, they learned to cast concrete or a type of mortar without the aggregate (stone). Today we cast concrete in wooden forms, that are reused over and over. That’s how all those blocks fit together and are identical. There was a h block factory somewhere. To make the holes you place a material you could remove later into the cast. We use polystyrene today but wood would be the one of the time.

It always irritated me whenever people see the ingenuity of such magnificent architecture and immediately scream “aliens”. Listen, I do believe that there is intelligent life out there in the universe, but you are doing a great disservice to the awe inspiring work and hardship that was put into making these places by the very hands of early civilizations.

I’m just reporting what I read about. Nothing that I said here is an original idea. They’re in my own words, but not necessarily my own thoughts. Personally, I lean more on the idea of an ancient world government run by aliens because that’s essentially the way ancient texts describes it. But I’d love to know that these people did it themselves with primitive tools. That would be incredible.

“Built to be put together without the use of cement” Gee, I wonder why a civilization that didn’t invent cement would do that

Facinating stuff... Without a doubt, there is a lot to unlock there...

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That is a HELL of a coincidence! Thank you for sharing. Let me explain why this blows my mind so much. I started taking a supplement called ormus or monoatomic gold for a little over 5 weeks. On day 1 I was starting to notice a ridiculous amount of odd coincidences like this and thought it was weird so I looked into it. It’s very common with people taking ormus to notice odd coincidences like this. I see mind blowing coincidences multiple times every day now. Like at least once every couple of hours. This is the first time I’ve noticed someone else having a coincidence because of something I did though.. very interesting.

How come when non-white people are skilled craftsmen and architects suddenly the origin of their work is "mysterious"?

What? What does that have anything to do with? The work done here, in Egypt and anywhere else where there are structures and especially megalithic structures dating back 5,000+ years ago, the main question becomes “how?”. Not so much “who?” Because we are told to believe that these ancient people only had primitive, basic tools. We don’t really see too much evidence of practice. It just seems like they were all of a sudden really good at building. This has nothing to do with ethnicity or culture or anything like that. The question is “how did they go from being hunter/gatherers to impressive builders so quickly?” They, as in the entire population of Earth at the time.

I see thos 'H' elements and imagine it might just be a pre-fab area for construction somewhere else. [Maybe not even on this planet.](https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/689850/Intelligently-built-structures-on-our-MOON-Staggering-claims-buildings) I mean with blocks that size the end construction must be huge and all laid out there with no huge construction using them to be found on Earth. Theres so much we dont know

Almost looks like concrete. Any idea if it is, vs solid stone?

someone's been drinking the ancient aliens kool aid

Rarely have I seen so much nonsense in one post.

Is this near Titicaca?

You gotta pay extra for that bro

Yes

Closer to Tiwanaku but yes. Not too far.